Ich after fallow?

[Adamant]

OK, firstly - apologies for the long post!

About 6 months ago, I got Ich (or velvet) in my DT from not quarantining a new powder blue tang that arrived.

The fish that lived went into HT where they were treated with Cupramine at 0.5 for 3 weeks and the DT left fallow for 8 weeks.

Only my clownfish made it through so he went back into the DT at 80 days.

I've not added anything until 5 weeks ago, I got a Regal Tang and put it into QT. The fish looked healthy but I did a prophylactic treatment with Cupramine at 0.5 for 3 weeks.

At this point, I'd read that the next prophylactic recommended is Prazi for flukes but as I;d never treated my clown that's in the DT for this then I didn't see the point as I would medicate the tang and it could be in my DT.

If I got Flukes, I'll dose Prazi straight into my DT and that way all fish / water in my system will be flukes free.

It seemed a semi-decent QT procedure to me - balancing time in QT with sensible precautions.

However, last night, I noticed a two barely-visible white spots on my Regal Tang.

I was *very* vigilant in maintaining biosecurity between tanks when I was doing the fallow period and when I'd got the tang to ensure I didn't get any cross contamination.

The tanks are about 6 feet away from each other, and they do have closed lids except for where the pipes come through. The aerosolisation of Ich is I suppose a possibility but I would have to be the single most unlucky person alive to have it go through tiny gaps where the pipes come out and then manage to get back into my HT tank through other tiny gaps!

My current thinking is that I should treat my DT with Prazi as it could possibly be flukes and I've not treated for this and monitor for a few days.

If it looks like it's not getting better then I'll have to move the fish back to HT, re-treat with Cupramine, and fallow again?

Any thoughts / ideas?

[Marchillo]

This doesn't solve your current predicament but are you saying you only qt'd for 3 weeks? That's really not enough time. My preferred method is TTM for 12 days and then about 6 weeks observated. A lot of people treat with Prazi during the process as well. I don't do that. I would if something showed up.

I've never used cupermine but I've read that the dosage must remain stable throughout the entire treatment period. Seemed to specific for my liking thus I went with TTM instead.

[gone fishin]

If I remember correctly I believe copper treatment is recommended for 4 weeks, verify this if your interested. you also posted you stayed fallow for 8 weeks it is recommended to stay fallow for 72 days.

I think I would observe your tang at this point before subjecting it to another round of copper.

[pdiehm]

my QT process is:

12 days of TTM (Tank Transfer Method) - PraziQuantel Dose on Transfers 2 and 4

Then 7 days of Paraguard.

Then 21 Days of Ick Shield Powder (Chloroquine Phosphate)

From now on, that's what I'll do.

[Adamant]

Sorry, Fallow was for the full 72 days - 8 weeks was my poor quick maths not working!

I did 3 weeks QT as I always thought it was 2-3 weeks on Cupramine (Seachem state 14 days, but 3 weeks covers you better). If 4 weeks is recommended then I'll certainly do that in future.

With the dosage of Cupramine, The way I understood it is that anything > 0.3 will be effective and < 0.8 is reasonably tolerated and you should be somewhere in between those but ideally around 0.5.

I maintain 0.5 by daily testing with the Seachem kit and manual water top / offs and pre-treating any water change water before it gets added to the QT to ensure that I don't go below the 0.3 even for a second. During the day, with evap, I didn't see it go much about 0.5.

What are the benefits of longer in QT, with regards a parasitic infection, than the amount of time it takes for them all to be killed? I must be missing something if people are doing way longer but I'm not sure why?

[gone fishin]

What are the benefits of longer in QT, with regards a parasitic infection, than the amount of time it takes for them all to be killed? I must be missing something if people are doing way longer but I'm not sure why?

A lot of places whether it be the LFS, wholesaler, collector/shipper will use a low non-therapeautic dose of copper. This will many time mask or keep illnesses suppressed. once removed from the low dose copper it can take up to 4 weeks for some ailments to present themselves. so you may be cruisin along thinking all is well put your new critter in your DT then a week later velvet everywhere.

please double check the copper treatment period. I believe it may be i one of the stickies in the fish disease forum. It has been a very long time since I used any copper treatments. Good luck

[spieszak]

A lot of places whether it be the LFS, wholesaler, collector/shipper will use a low non-therapeautic dose of copper. This will many time mask or keep illnesses suppressed. once removed from the low dose copper it can take up to 4 weeks for some ailments to present themselves. so you may be cruisin along thinking all is well put your new critter in your DT then a week later velvet everywhere.

If prophylactically treated with copper, extended QT only seems like its likely to cause more hardship on the fish. Are you noting you feel extended QT is necessarily even when doing so? I understand and agree your logic when not treating...

[gone fishin]

If prophylactically treated with copper, extended QT only seems like its likely to cause more hardship on the fish. Are you noting you feel extended QT is necessarily even when doing so? I understand and agree your logic when not treating...

I would still suggest extended QT after a copper treatment. My reasoning is while copper is effective against many things it is not effective against others. Brook and uronema for example.

Another reason is I think sometimes we forget a QT serves another vital purpose. Since copper was the subject we have been discussing I will continue with it. We all know copper can pretty tough on our fishes, the extended stay in QT can give the fish time to get back in shape and eating in relative peace. Just my thoughts.

[kenpau]

Unfortunately yours is probably the fourth or fifth case this year I've read on here of people going fallow for 72 days and still having ich in their tank. I've been there myself and still have ich in my DT to this day (although no fish are showing symptoms).
For this reason I'd say to go another week or so to try and be as sure as you can that it has been eradicated. There was the question asked a few months ago as to why we don't use copper treatment for 72 days, as this was the maximum recorded amount of time a tomont remained encysted under test conditions. Seeing as copper only attacks the free swimming stage why is copper not administered for the full 72 days? Unfortunately the question went unanswered.

[snorvich]

Copper for three weeks is good some of the time. It is insufficient some of the time. Copper for 72 days (if at a therapeutic dose) will knock out ich all of the time; however copper is not good for fish so extended treatment is undesirable. Tank transfer eliminates ich in 12 days but only is effective on ich.