Any Alternative to Hanna PO4 Checker

[Buzz1329]

For reasons explained in prior threads, the Hanna low range Checker does not work for me (I am sure the fault is mine and not the test), and the Salifert and Red Sea PO4 kits are IMO absolutely useless. See post 18 of this RC thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2510730

Is there another PO4 kit out there that at least offers the possibility of a fairly accurate reading? Something that would at least give me a general indication of whether PO4 levels are rising or falling? Has anyone tried the Elos kit?

I see LaMotte makes PO4 test kits. Would any of the kits listed on this site work for a reef tank?

http://www.lamotte.com/en/education/water-monitoring/education-kits#Phosphate

Thanks,

Mike

[bertoni]

The LaMotte might be fine. The Hach PO-19 kit is good, in my experience, although it still requires color comparison.

[droog]

Does the Hach test kit use liquid or powder reagent?

I feel like the Hanna Checker would be easier to use if the powder were in a bottle with a measuring spoon rather than a messy single use foil pack.

-droog

[bertoni]

As I recall, the reagents were powders, but it's been a while since I used that kit.

[nuxx]

Going to try one of these out pretty soon:
http://www.sensafe.com/photometers/exact-idip-570nm/

Looks pretty exciting, they were at MACNA and seems to have impressed a lot of people.

Will let you know how it goes :)

[swk]

I use the Elos professional phosphate kit. Awesome kit that is more accurate than my Hanna and is right on with AWT and triton results. Don't know why it's not more popular...

[droog]

Looking forward to some reviews on the eXact idip thing. Looks like it would be convenient to use, but we'll have to see how precise and accurate it is.

@swk - the Elos kit looks good, but I'm colour blind and have a hard time telling slightly different shades of essentially the same colour. The only colour based tests that work for me are titration tests with a sudden change (RedSea pro for example are good for me).

-droog

[kinnadian]

Going to try one of these out pretty soon:
http://www.sensafe.com/photometers/exact-idip-570nm/

Looks pretty exciting, they were at MACNA and seems to have impressed a lot of people.

Will let you know how it goes :)

Don't see why the accuracy won't be good, photometer technology has been used widespread for water testing for a very long time.

[Buzz1329]

Going to try one of these out pretty soon:
http://www.sensafe.com/photometers/exact-idip-570nm/

Looks pretty exciting, they were at MACNA and seems to have impressed a lot of people.

Will let you know how it goes :)

Interesting. Basic model tests only pH, Chlorine, and Total Alkalinity, of which only ALK is of any interest to me. (VERY limited as I have Alk tests that seem to be pretty accurate). Assume PO4 is one of available add ons, which could be of use. But not sure how this works? You dip the unit in your DT, transmit results to Seasafe Central and wait for results? I'll have to do more research but I appreciate your bringing this test equipment to my attention.

Thanks,

Mike

[Buzz1329]

I use the Elos professional phosphate kit. Awesome kit that is more accurate than my Hanna and is right on with AWT and triton results. Don't know why it's not more popular...

Bee-you-ti-ful. Just what I was looking for. Thanks.

Mike

[Buzz1329]

The LaMotte might be fine. The Hach PO-19 kit is good, in my experience, although it still requires color comparison.

So in another thread on the same subject (I apologize for complicating things with multiple threads) you said that the following LaMotte test kit would not help because the "0.2 ppm is not all that precise."

http://www.zoro.com/lamotte-phosphate-testing-kit-002-to-20ppm-3121-02/i/G9073111/?gclid=CJzd_vaG_ccCFYQYHwodxvEFNA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Does this affect your opinion of the the Hach PO-19 kit?

Much appreciated,

Mike

[bertoni]

No, the Hach kit is more precise than that. I just misread the LaMotte spec. There's a typo in the description, if you look closely, and I missed that.

[droog]

Don't see why the accuracy won't be good, photometer technology has been used widespread for water testing for a very long time.

When I looked at the website the PO4 test seemed like a test strip that you dip and then attach to the photometer. Its the test strips that that led me to doubt accuracy. If the test method is simple and accuracy good I'll be the first in line to buy one of these...

Interesting. Basic model tests only pH, Chlorine, and Total Alkalinity, of which only ALK is of any interest to me. (VERY limited as I have Alk tests that seem to be pretty accurate). Assume PO4 is one of available add ons, which could be of use. But not sure how this works? You dip the unit in your DT, transmit results to Seasafe Central and wait for results? I'll have to do more research but I appreciate your bringing this test equipment to my attention.


It would be nice but I doubt they work like that. The standard tests probably work similar to AquariumSystems "SeaTest" colorimeters whereby the device gives one reading, and the app "knows" which test and reagent you're using in order to translate raw data point into a meaningful test result unit.

I've seen talk on here of using an iPhone or similar for this stuff rather than an expensive colorimeter. As long as there is a reference white balance in the shot, digital camera should be reasonably accurate, perhaps not as good as a colorimeter, but most of us probably have an android or iOS device with camera already.

-droog

[mr9iron]

I've seen talk on here of using an iPhone or similar for this stuff rather than an expensive colorimeter. As long as there is a reference white balance in the shot, digital camera should be reasonably accurate, perhaps not as good as a colorimeter, but most of us probably have an android or iOS device with camera already.

-droog

Can you elaborate on this more?

[jason2459]

Can you elaborate on this more?
I have a pool test kit from Kem-Tek that has an android app. I just load up the app, point the camera at the strips and it does the readings. Then will spit out what chemicals I should get.

I could see this coming to our hobby.

[Buzz1329]

No, the Hach kit is more precise than that. I just misread the LaMotte spec. There's a typo in the description, if you look closely, and I missed that.

Great. Thanks!

Mike

[mr9iron]

I have a pool test kit from Kem-Tek that has an android app. I just load up the app, point the camera at the strips and it does the readings. Then will spit out what chemicals I should get.

I could see this coming to our hobby.


Well, that's pretty interesting. I wonder if we may see something like this soon?

[bertoni]

It'll be interesting to see how accurate a cell phone camera would be for such tests.

[jason2459]

It'll be interesting to see how accurate a cell phone camera would be for such tests.
I would be worried about using it for an aquarium with out a lot of cross testing. I'm not so worried with a pool as I want to kill everything in it (besides people of course.)

[dkeller_nc]

I see LaMotte makes PO4 test kits. Would any of the kits listed on this site work for a reef tank?


I suspect that you will find that the answer is "no", presuming that you're interested in accurate quantitation of phosphate in the 20 - 100 ppb range or so. The issue isn't the manufacturing quality of the kit, nor its design, but the fundamental chemistry. All orthophosphate color-change test kits on the market that I'm aware of rely on reduced molybdenum-phosphate chemistry, which results in a blue color. The intensity of this blue color is dependent on the amount of phosphate in the sample (presuming complete reaction) and the fundamental chemistry of the reduced molybdenum-phosphate complex.

Our perception of the "degree of blue" is affected by the concentration of phosphate (and thus the concentration of the molybdenum-phosphate complex) and the path length of the solution that you're viewing. In other words, the depth of the solution in a vial that one is looking through affects how "dark" the blue color is.

The issue for us is that 20 - 100 ppb of phosphate in seawater doesn't produce enough of the blue reduced molybdenum-phosphate complex to be "blue enough" for us to reasonably quantitate against a color chart. It'd be a lot easier if we were looking through 8 inches of test solution, but that has some obvious practical problems when one considers how much sample and reagents would be required.

This is the reason for the use of a photometer in the Hanna Checker test kits - it's not simply the convenience of a digital read-out. A photometer of the proper wavelength will be far, far more sensitive and accurate than our eyes at low ranges.

So you've several choices - you can practice the procedure for the Hanna Checker to get good at it, and simply put up with the occasional bad batch of reagents. Or, you can use someone else's molybdenum phosphate kit reagents and use the Hanna Checker to read the results. Or you can use someone else's kit reagents (or make your own) and use a general-use photometer of the proper wavelength.

It's not difficult to make your own reagents, by the way - you simply need ammonium molybdate and a reducing agent. The traditional one is Stannous Chloride from the method published in The Standard Methods for the Examination of Water and Wastewater, but the more common one in use nowadays is ascorbic acid.

[droog]

Can you elaborate on this more?

I was thinking of this (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2505861) thread.

-droog

[swk]

So I just received some triton results.

Triton po4 - .023
Hanna phosphorus - .045
Elos professional - .024

From the same sample that the triton was pulled from. That has been the case x3 for me. Don't know why I bother with Hanna anymore...

[jason2459]

That's awesome. Thanks.

[ChristianITS]

Don't see why the accuracy won't be good, photometer technology has been used widespread for water testing for a very long time.

Hey everyone its great to see people talking about water testing on here, if anyone has any questions about the iDip's capabilities or how it compares to other instruments on the market I would be happy to help.

MACNA was such a successful show and we at ITS are excited about learning more about reefers and aquarists are looking for in their water testing.

[reeferKen]

Going to try one of these out pretty soon:
http://www.sensafe.com/photometers/exact-idip-570nm/

Looks pretty exciting, they were at MACNA and seems to have impressed a lot of people.


if interested, there will be a Google hangout with ITS the manufacturer of Exact iDip today afternoon at 2:30 pm EST.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTca3OA2WiKA1paywbxpfeA/feed

But if you miss it, it will be posted up on the same youtube channel a few days later.

[reefwiser]

It's at 3:30 pm not 2:30pm. [emoji3]

[reeferKen]

The youtube link I posted shows FRI 2:30PM on my computer depending on your timezone I guess.