Sump plumbing question

[stingeragent]

Ok, so the 125 is in. Has dual corner overflows, with a single 1" drain in each. Return is 3/4 plumbed over the top. The way the previous owner had it, was both drains came down to a T, and then down into the sump. I've no experience with this type of setup, so I'm curious about how I regulate the flow. There are no ball/gate valves on the current plumbing. Also, the T is actually a cross. Is a 4 way PVC piece, 2 drains come in on either side, 1 pipe down to the sump, and 1 pipe that goes up 6 inches with a cap ( I have no clue what that top piece is for). Granted the whole system will obviously be regulated by the return pump which is on a single 3/4 pipe. Should I put some valves in on this somewhere? Also, it looks like he did the T thing, so that he could have a single output down into the filter sock. Is there a better way to set this whole thing up? I'm sure the 2 drains can outperfom the return, so I'm not really worried about a flood, just more along the lines of regulating the water level height in the DT, as well as minimizing splashing noised down into the overflow. Both overflows are bottom to top, with the bulkheads on the bottom glass. I'm also thinking those 2 drains basically having a head on collision will cause a fair amount of back pressure reducing the drains flow rate.
Edit: Just did some research on the return pump. It's a mag drive 9.5b which supposedly is rated at 950gph.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/chad_roberts4/2015091395205021_zpsriwzo0ey.jpg

[thegrun]

Is there any way you can drill at least one more drain line to act as an emergency drain? If so that opens up a lot of options for you to rework the drain lines to make them silent. If not it is going to be difficult to quiet them down.

[Brando457]

If it were me I'd toss that plumbing and redo it with 2 separate drains. Having the 2 meet to the same diameter pipe will limit the amount of flow. The cap is probably to remove any air, but is not really needed. Can you take a picture of the tank and of the open bottom to get a better idea?

[BillNye]

+1. Let's see the whole thing - tank, sump, under area, plumbing. I'd also redo it, mostly for peace of mind knowing everything is set up properly.

[figuerres]

also using elbows can slow down the flow with hard angles. some sumps have dual inlets and if not you can get a clip on filter sock holder and put that at the other end of the sump if the sump layout allows for them.... need to see the whole setup to know for sure....

[stingeragent]

Thanks for the tips. Will get some pics up in a bit. Filter sock is large enough that i can run both drains into it and bypass that T. Both drains are centered in the overflow so drilling a 3rd hole is out. The drains themselves have a plastic bulb shaped screen over them so not too concerned about a full clog. I could raise the pipe on one side higher than the waterlevel and use the other side side as the sole drain. Would have to put a gate valve on the return and the drain at that point. Similar to a herbie but in separate overflow boxes

[thegrun]

As far as drilling an emergency drain would it be possible to drill it in the back of the tank?

[figuerres]

Thanks for the tips. Will get some pics up in a bit. Filter sock is large enough that i can run both drains into it and bypass that T. Both drains are centered in the overflow so drilling a 3rd hole is out. The drains themselves have a plastic bulb shaped screen over them so not too concerned about a full clog. I could raise the pipe on one side higher than the waterlevel and use the other side side as the sole drain. Would have to put a gate valve on the return and the drain at that point. Similar to a herbie but in separate overflow boxes

a couple of things that I think the pictures may help with but also how things work.

the dual overflows are there so that the volume of water that is getting cycled from the display to the sump can be high for a reef tank system, also by having one on each end you have two places that surface skimming can happen and to give a good flow.

if one end is not an active overflow then the water in the overflow is going ton go sour and you have to modify how you make the water in the dt flow to move water to get to the one overflow.

also on the early post you mentioned noise from the overflow, do the overflows have durso stand pipes ? if not that may be the cause of a lot of noise and you can fix that with pvc from the local hardware store easy.

the thing about the second filter bag is that if you can run a short run from the tank to the sump on each end and keep it with few bends / elbows and right to the sump that will be better, flow faster and if one does clog it can only clog one of them no center point that can clog the whole system.

[Isaacs55]

I would scrap and redo it all. Save what you can and redo with pvc, a couple ball and gate valves and a ryme and reason. Sometimes less is more and more is less. Seems like previous owner thought into it too much.

[stingeragent]

Ok. I must be blind. Was about to take pics when i realized theres a 3rd bulk head drilled through the back and is capped off on the inside. It appears to be 1/2 in. If i use that as an emergency drain would it be sufficient? I know if both mains fully clog it will be worthless but it may suffice if only 1 side goes out.

[thegrun]

That's very marginal. It is a little tricky but I have drilled a larger hole over a smaller one which would be my recommendation (use a 1" bulkhead).

[stingeragent]

Planning on running the tank with just water for a few weeks. Think what I will do for now, is get rid of that T, and run each drain to its own filter sock. Think I'm gonna tune the flow down on the return to match a single drain, that way if one does get fully clogged, the other will still be able to handle it. I'm not looking for crazy amounts of flow through the sump anyways. I know anything is possible but I can't see the drains getting completely closed up. The previous owner had some jumper fish, so the teeth on the overflows as well as the top is covered with 1/4 in plastic screen. That and the drain tubes themselves have the plastic guard on them (similar to whats on a HOB intake pipe only larger). Ill try that out while I'm just running water in it, and cover one of the main drains with a plastic bag or something to simulate it completely closing up and see what happens. I know drilling would be the best bet, but I'm outta friend cards right now when it comes to moving heavy tanks,lol.

Edit: I'll try it for a while and see how it works. The deal I got on the whole setup was worth the money even if it didn't include the tank. Paid 400 for everything including the tank, stand, sump,plumbing,heater,skimmer, couple powerheads, 200lbs sand, 20lbs salt, frozen food, couple powerstrips, light, 4 way auto doser, 20 hermits, and 11 corals (coral alone would have cost me prolly close to 200 at the LFS). So worst case scenario, I'll just go buy a new pre drilled tank with custom overflows.

[stingeragent]

Ok, Just an slight update to this, went out to get the new plumbing I need today and brought it home and wouldn't you know it, the original drains are 1 1/4 in not 1 in. Whoops.

[LuciDog]

Ok, Just an slight update to this, went out to get the new plumbing I need today and brought it home and wouldn't you know it, the original drains are 1 1/4 in not 1 in. Whoops.


Been there. Done that. Many many times... At least you didn't start cutting before you noticed.

[stingeragent]

No big deal but now im a tad concerned about having too much drain flow. Looking at gravity numbers my two drains in theory will pull close to 3000 gph, with a return of 1000 or did i misread something. I wish this setup was light enough to take it outside and do some freshwater testing with it, but no such luck.

[CStrickland]

It depends on the drain itself. I don't see any valves to tune the drain flow, are the drains just holes in the floor of the tank, or are there standpipes?

[stingeragent]

Bulkheads on the bottom, stand pipes about 8 in tall from the bottom

[Shawn O]

Might be safer to run one drain as a full siphon with valve and the other as an open channel to take less flow. Adjust the siphon to make the open channel take about 10-20% of the water. Will slow water in the one overflow but should prevent water from getting stagnant. Thegrun's suggestion of drilling the 3rd hole larger for an emergency is a good one.

[CStrickland]

Its a little confusing to answer about the flow without getting into a whole thing, and Im not super confident in my answer but maybe this'll help
Your flow to the sump is basically a function of your pump. The water that goes over the weir is all the water that's going to go down the pipe. So it's not like it can "pull too much" in that sense. But some people use valves to restrict the flow out of the dt to match what's coming in to make it quieter or try to have the water higher behind the weir (inside the overflow). I don't like to do that because a snail or whatev can get caught on a valve and flood, it's cutting things too close to try to keep them just the same and if they aren just the same it's a hassle.

That's the basic idea of a layout that uses an emergency drain. Then you can restrict the mains without fear. Bean animal setups do that and are quiet because it's only water in the pipe and exactly as much as the pump is sending. So the pipe can be bigger cause you will valve it anyway, but you might be valving it down a lot and that can be tricky

Dursos and stockmans quiet things by muffling the noise from air+water instead of using a "full siphon" so the pipe size can be bigger cause you are going to have air anyway, but more air = more noise so it's better to get close to the rated flow.

Also, the flow through a pipe is determined by its narrowest run, so if you reduce to 1" after the bulkhead that's easier than trying to fuss with the hole. And make sure your getting the pipe flow rates for Gravity-fed, not pressurized, water.

Idk that prolly made it more confusing :)