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Ron Popeil
09/22/2015, 06:01 AM
i use to only have success with reef keeping. corals grew. fish flourished. things were easy and maintaining a reef aquarium was never hard. i maintained 120 gallons, 60 gallons, 300 gallons....i could do it all, and well.

until i moved to florida.

now even the simplest issues are impossible to defeat. im running out of ideas and patience. i have a level of algae that does not seem to subside in spite of everything i throw at it.

i sold mostly everything i had and moved to florida and set up a 150 gallon aquarium. i used my old rock which was kept moist during transport, but certainly was not alive until i reseeded it for several weeks after. i run a single 400w SE 20k halide and 3 AI Sols that typically run at 100%. photoperiod is about 6 hours halide, 12 hours LED with ramp up/ramp down. the tank was fine for nearly 5 months. algae free. then without anything changing, algae erupted and never went away.

i feed a miniscule amount of pelleted foods every two days.

my parameters:
temp 80
ph 8.1
alk 10
ca 450
mg 1300
sal 1.024
no3 0
po4 0.00

the algae isnt bryopsis. its not derbesia. by all appearance its just regular green hair algae. but its unstoppable. ive used turbo snails. astrea snails. urchins. tangs. rabbitfish. seahares. nothing keeps up with it. i used red sea po4-x, which only seemed to exponentially increase the issue. i tried a five day dark treatment. ive taken the rocks out, scrubbed them, put them in a dark brute garbage can for two weeks with a powerhead and PO4 media. once i returned the rocks to the tank, they looked great for two weeks after, but soon it returned.

i run an RODI unit with floss, catalytic carbon, two DI and a 100gpd membrane. tds going in is approximately 230 ppm. coming out typically 0. my product water goes into a brand new brute garbage can and is then fed into my sump on a daily basis.
i run biopellets.
i have a large skimmer.
i run several cups of gfo in a reactor.
i do 45 gallon water changes every month.
i test phosphate with a milwaukie colorimeter.
ive tested my RODI product water and my new salt mix water stored in a brute garbage can for phosphates...both were zero.

i understand that i should expect to see zero phosphates because the algae is using it up. but where is it coming from? i used to dump huge amounts of food in my tanks and do water changes every two to three months....and never have algae issues.
if the rock absorbed the phosphate from all the years i used it prior, how much longer for it to deplete itself?

should i add on additional po4 reactors? should i add more biopellets? should i remove all my sand and go bare bottom? should i do something with hydrogen peroxide? should i do a longer blackout period? should i add more canisters to my RODI unit? should i dose vodka? should i cook my rock? should i go freshwater?

any ideas will be sincerely and greatly appreciated. i feel like i am an experienced hobbyist but this has been quite humbling. i realize the hair algae problem is probably the most commonly posted issue, but i feel like i have tried nearly everything and im not seeing any results. its heartbreaking and embarrassing.


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS OR IDEAS.

as an example of what i am capable of so you dont think im a complete novice:

my old 60 gallon.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/f8cef5dda512047ebb3295058662bea0_zps323ad135.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/f8cef5dda512047ebb3295058662bea0_zps323ad135.jpg.html)

my 300 gallon

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/7568B982-F904-4CE4-9D42-EFEEEB5DC4DB_zpsjkesijch.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/7568B982-F904-4CE4-9D42-EFEEEB5DC4DB_zpsjkesijch.jpg.html)

Ser Davos
09/22/2015, 06:26 AM
Maybe post some pictures of the algae and describe it more.

-Does it go away some at night, then reappear during lighted hours?
-Sometimes have air bubbles at the tips of the "hair"?
-Does it come off easily?

bitwise
09/22/2015, 06:47 AM
In my limited experience (one nano tank), algae can start to really take off in the 6 month - 1 year range.

mypepper
09/22/2015, 07:03 AM
Good morning Ron,

What type of BIO Pellets and Reactor are you using?

Basically, I'm in the same situation you are in with alage, even though I faithfully take care of my tank on a daily basis, including weekly water changes.

I just started using Reef Dynamics Bio pellets about three weeks ago and I'm using a BRS reactor, which I'm replacing with a Aqualund recirculating Bio Pellet reactor within the next week. I thought the BRS reactor was sufficient, but after reading several postings online, a recirculating reactor is the safest and most reliable way of dosing with Bio Pellets.

Once I have my new Aqualund reactor up and running, I'll let you know how things are going with my tank.

Thanks,
Randy

Ron Popeil
09/22/2015, 07:20 AM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/IMG_4175_zps29b098a3.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/IMG_4175_zps29b098a3.jpg.html)

a tank with so much possibility ahead of it! but then...
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/76008866-376B-4985-AB50-E5A72343CE85_zpskn7jah9h.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/76008866-376B-4985-AB50-E5A72343CE85_zpskn7jah9h.jpg.html)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/FD620366-662F-43D5-9158-60FCA5BBB23B_zpsgr6xixbt.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/FD620366-662F-43D5-9158-60FCA5BBB23B_zpsgr6xixbt.jpg.html)

ser davos, the algae never goes away at night. it doesnt have airbubbles in it. it comes off very easily.

mypepper, i dont recall the name of the reactor manufacturer, but its about 20" tall and maybe 5-6" in diameter. its not recirculating. ive been using warner ecobak biopellets. im not entirely sure theyre even benefiting my system. keep me posted on what you think about your new reactor.

ive stopped doing most maintenance because nothing i do matters. the algae will always come back. i clean my skimmer and change out a filter sock once a week because it tends to just get so clogged with algae.

ksicard
09/22/2015, 07:30 AM
Change your bio pellets to all in one biopellets which will reduce po4 greatly. Normal bio pellets dont do a good job at lowering po4. It will take 2-6 weeks for the all in one bio pellets to kick in and I would suggest running 1.5L (1500ml) of the all in one bio pellets. You will need 600-900 GPH through your reactor to tumble the media properly. It will take 2-6 weeks for the pellets to kick in so in the mean time run 2-3 cups of HIGH CAPACITY GFO and change every 1-2 weeks. Once the pellets kick in and do their job at keeping po4 low you will want to proceed by taking every rock out of the tank and scrub all visible hair algae off.

The idea here is you reduce your po4 as close to zero as possible so the hair algae wont re grow after you scrub it off. This method has never failed me. It may be a good idea to stock up on a beefy clean up crew as well.

Tweaked
09/22/2015, 07:34 AM
The rock can leach po4 for months, trust me. Don't add any more coral, keep up on GFO, manually remove the algae, beef up CUC, turn up flow, turn down lights, and keep temps below 80. The biggest part is a good (I mean Spectrapure good) RODI unit. Don't loose faith yet! GL

alton
09/22/2015, 07:44 AM
Ron when I first setup my 300DD I had something very similar, the first picture was the first year. All rocks came from my old 200. The second picture was a year later and some bad algae I could not control but then a year later in picture 3 it was gone. I think I ran a small phosban reactor and kept up with water changes. And of coarse today I am battling Bubble algae introduced when I brought in a clam that was on a piece of LR back in 2011.

Bent
09/22/2015, 09:06 AM
The rock can leach po4 for months, trust me. Don't add any more coral, keep up on GFO, manually remove the algae, beef up CUC, turn up flow, turn down lights, and keep temps below 80. The biggest part is a good (I mean Spectrapure good) RODI unit. Don't loose faith yet! GL

Great advice here.

Ron Popeil
09/22/2015, 09:33 AM
ksicard, thank you. ill look into those pellets. ive read about them, but wasnt entirely convinced about their efficacy.

i will mention that since ive been dealing with this over a year, i have tried running large amounts of PO4 media, cut off feeding for weeks....and didnt see a positive result.
i also have close to 7 variegated urchins and 1 long spine urchin in the tank. additionally there are 15 turbos, 10 trochus and 10 or so astrea snails. ive had up to two seahares at a time and they only live about a month or two at most, but never seemed to clear any algae.

tweaked, i imagine this is the case with the leaching phosphates. but i have given up faith. ughhhh. the tank has had the algae issues what feels like an unreasonable amount of time. i have something like 800 gph coming as a sump return plus two MP40s for flow.

le sigh.


what about AI Sols and their LEDs, anyone experienced never ending algae using these after a few years?

I have the benefit of moving in the next few weeks. I think i will scour every rock, place in a dark garbage can with heavy PO4 media and discard sand. will adding hydrogen peroxide to this container have any benefit?

Or should i discard rock, and start completely over?

MartyD
09/22/2015, 09:53 AM
Have you changed or added rock with your most recent build? Most of my algae problems had to do with with rock I was using, with Florida rock being the worst offender. I find it to be way too dense and almost like a nutrient sponge. I'm only asking because I've had algae like that in the past and it was on Florida or Caribbean rock. I am breaking out in a cold sweat just thinking about it!

Ron Popeil
09/22/2015, 10:02 AM
martyd, ha! this was rock imported from the pacific. i was there when it came in, circa 2008 or so if i remember correctly. giant pieces with great shape, which is why i like them so much. i dont have to have a pile of little rocks, i can have four big all-in-one pieces.

RGS2
09/22/2015, 10:15 AM
Short answer: use lanthanum chloride to remove P04.

Long answer: read the very long but detailed thread here on RC about LC.

Has worked wonders for me when everything else failed. Added benefit is that it is the absolute cheapest way to lower and maintain P04 IMO.

shred5
09/22/2015, 10:20 AM
The rock can leach po4 for months, trust me. Don't add any more coral, keep up on GFO, manually remove the algae, beef up CUC, turn up flow, turn down lights, and keep temps below 80. The biggest part is a good (I mean Spectrapure good) RODI unit. Don't loose faith yet! GL

Hey Ron.

I agree with above and was my first thought.. I am guessing your rock had lots of die off. Live rock can be full of life inside including worms, sponges etc. and I bet you had die off and it is continually leeching from the rock.

I would replace rock or run massive amounts of gfo till it settles down which could take a long time depending on the levels of life in the rocks.

Aframomum
09/22/2015, 10:35 AM
Sorry to hear about your HA problem. In addition to the already mentioned suggestions have you considered plumbing in a fuge, throw some macro in there so maybe in time it will out compete the HA?

Mark

blando233
09/22/2015, 10:41 AM
The rock can leach po4 for months, trust me. Don't add any more coral, keep up on GFO, manually remove the algae, beef up CUC, turn up flow, turn down lights, and keep temps below 80. The biggest part is a good (I mean Spectrapure good) RODI unit. Don't loose faith yet! GL

Agreed. I had a hair algae problem i used GFO and I changed how long my LEDs run for to a shorter time. I also bought couple emerald crabs and when i put them i did it at night and i set them by the hair algae and the next day that batch of hair was gone and then next day more was gone so on. Don't give up still and GL.

Lucky Lefty
09/22/2015, 12:13 PM
I'm sorry that I don't have any solutions for your HA problem, but I just have to ask...
Are you actually Ron from RONCO? If so, that Showtime cooker was awesome man. Still, to this day, cooked one of the best whole chickens I've ever had. JUST SET IT, AND FORGET IT! I still say that to this day. I wonder if my mother still has that thing somewhere... I may have to find it at her house and break it out and cook something with it.

Again, apologies for the quick thread jack, good luck with the HA.

64Ivy
09/22/2015, 12:37 PM
While you're taking steps to eradicate the source of the problem, I'd toss in some diadema [Black Longspined} and Tuxedo urchins in hopes of cleaning things up a bit. Doesn't happen overnight but then again, what good things do?

IronMonkey
09/22/2015, 12:51 PM
FWIW (Which could be very little LOL)

I had a pretty invasive outbreak of hair algae that I (unscientifically) attributed to the rock that I re-used from my retired older tank. In the course of a week (about two weeks after starting the tank up) it went from a small singular patch to covering every rock in the tank and the sand bed. Water changes, reduced lighting, blenny, turbos, chaeto in the refugium, manual removal, all really didn't knock it back that much. Testing phosphate continually revealed a fairly trivial amount of SRP ... usually read in about .03-0.05 and yet the stuff thrived. I figured it had to be feeding from the rock. Based on some reading I did, I started doing doses (every five days) of Dr. Tim's waste away to try and speed up the breakdown and export of the nutrients trapped in the rock (my own evaluation of what was feeding the algae) In about 2 weeks most of the algae had discolored to yellow/brown and started to disappear. I would turn the skimmer off for about 12 hours after the dose, then turn it back on and it would fill up with nasty black stuff for the next three days. Now, I'm hair algae free (at least visibly). My LFS came over to see the results as they had never tried waste away for this application before. Now the LFS is running the same play on a tank they have at the store that has a major outbreak of hair algae (after adding old used rock) and we are waiting to see the results.

At the end of the day, I don't know exactly what to attribute the success to, could have just been the natural course of things, but this is what I did to try and get on top of the issue. My next step was to build an ATS, but I did not do that. Since then, I added a GFO reactor as well and keep it running at a nice little roll.


-Adam

IronMonkey
09/22/2015, 12:52 PM
Oh yeah, definitely don't go with this advice...

"Set it and forget it!"

LMAO

PhaneSoul
09/22/2015, 12:54 PM
How deep is your sandbed? Did you reuse it in the move after the move?

Reef Frog
09/22/2015, 01:01 PM
The PO4 is leaching from inside the LR and from the organic detritus and biological activities directly on top of the rock surface. Some is actually caught in the algae strands themselves. So the PO4 is being fed directly to where the algae is growing via direct contact. There is likely a thin surface layer of nutrient rich water covering the LR. Of course it's substantially diluted as you take a water sample elsewhere in open water, water that has been run through various medias thus showing zero on even the best tests.

IDEA 1
Since you're willing to remove the LR for a treatment & do a mini cycle, I'd consider the following. I assume most corals will be removed.

-Clean the surface of all detritus by shaking it in a tub & blasting it with a power head until the water is clean. Soak in peroxide & scrub off algae patches.
-Do a lanthanum chloride procedure.
-If you think your sanded is old & leaching, replace or go bare bottom.

After the cleaned rock is installed I would keep running the GFO, never letting the media become exhausted. Although it may look funny, I'd consider placing an easy to move broad flow pump on the front glass from time to time with water flowing front to back. This helps move excess detritus off the rock that the typical left-right flow patterns won't move. Of course try to capture the liberated detritus manually with a filter sock etc.

IDEA 2
An algae turf scrubber could work wonders, if worth the effort to you. Once established in the sump area & with algae growing on the ATS screen, you can isolate the sump from the DT for 24 hours and do a peroxide spot treatment/ brushing & remove all the detritus you can & exporting it. The peroxide disapates quickly so you can bring the sump back on line without killing the algae on the ATS screen.

Or you could just clean up the LR outside the tank like you were planning to do.

In short, do another massive clean up and then ruthlessly starve the algae.

OTHER
Never tried it, but I've seen many good reports of Algaefix Marine working on green hair algae. Of course it's not addressing the underlying problem. Read up on peroxide dosing if you haven't done it. Doing it wrong can be hard on some inverts especially.

Good luck. Your tanks look great and your problem looks quite manageable.

Sk8r
09/22/2015, 01:02 PM
I feel your pain. I had a similar situation.
What ABOUT that sandbed?
What I found in my situation: the new rock was really loaded with phosphate. Using a double cylinder of GFO, medium changed monthly, began to knock that.
I'd reused the sump sand. Needed to have been pulled for new.
I started a program of 20 gallon a DAY water changes, while using a filter sock and cleaning, which went until I had, at least statistically, replaced all the water in the system one and a half times. That helped re-set original salt mix levels.
My new tank was twice the size (and nearly twice the depth) of the old. I didn't realize my lighting wasn't hacking it, and THAT was the worst problem of all. Corals were getting unhappy and I didn't figure. NOW I've got an LED that can reach a 30" depth, and I've done all the above, and we have turned a corner, bigtime. Coral is ecstatic.

Buzz1329
09/22/2015, 03:08 PM
I had a green/brown algae problem in my 2.5 years old, 180 SPS tank a few months back. I tried increasing GFO and changing it more often. No effect. Ditto with vinegar dosing. I tried every marine herbivore short of Galapagos lizards. Nada. Reduced feeding, increased water changes with 0 TDS water, yadda, yadda. Nothing. I even added an ATS. (I'm a klutz so rather than building my own I bought one from Turbo Aquatics.) It did not help.

Nothing I tried worked. So with nothing to lose, I tried Algae Fix Marine, which until I used it I assumed was snake oil. (I removed ATS to another tank on theory that product that kills algae can't be good for algae turf scrubber.) Using recommended doses, over several weeks, AFM severely reduced algae in DT. At same time, I ran skimmer full wet, used filter sock to capture dying algae, continued to run GAC and GFO at recommended levels but changing every week, instead of recommended month. Amazingly AFM did no evil to tank full of SPS. Eventually algae in DT was reduced to minimal.

I discontinued AFM, and after several large water changes (using 0 TDS water), I reinstalled ATS in 180. It took off. Collecting very thick sheets of algae, which I scrub off every 7 to 10 days.

Continued running very efficient skimmer (SRO3000INT), GAC reactor, and 10% weekly water changes to remove vestigial algae and vacuum thin sand bed. But gradually reduced amount of vinegar being dosed and GFO. A month later, I am no longer dosing vinegar or using GFO, and tank is almost algae free. DT and SPS continue to look great. I am very gradually increasing fish feedings. No doubt in my mind that once DT algae was reduced to manageable level the Turbo Aquatics ATS, was able to take over (in conjunction with efficient skimmer, GAC reactor, and weekly 10% water change.)

Evey tank is different. What worked for me may not for you. But if all else fails, you may want to try combo of AFM and (after algae is under control) ATS.

Good luck,

Mike

Ron Popeil
09/24/2015, 09:43 AM
thank you so much for the advice everyone!

rgs2 - ill look into it, thank you!

shred5 - i could imagine there being die off initially, but by now after over a year of repopulating critters, i would think all of that biological material would have been consumed by now. im also just surprised at how long it could leach out. certainly possible!

aframomum - i want a refugium, i desperately want one. but in my current set up, there isnt any available space. perhaps after my move i will be able to plumb something to the main system.

blando233 - how long did you shorten your photoperiod to?

lucky lefty - sadly no. if i was i would just hire someone else to take care of this abomination of an aquarium for me. while i slow cooked moist, seasoned chickens all day. mmmm.

64ivy - i have a number of variegated urchins in there already with one longspine. they make sure no coralline algae grows on my rocks, and leave the green stuff alone.

ironmonkey - thanks for the suggestion. ive never heard of it, but ill do some reading. my PO4 always tests at 0 with my colorimeter or titration kits.

phanesoul - my sandbed is about 1" to 1.5". i used brand new sand at start up. the algae never grows on the sand strangely.

reef frog - tell me more about a peroxide soak. with lanthanum chloride pull more PO4 out of the rock in an isolated container than ferric oxide will?

sk8r - yikes, 20 gallons a day!

buzz1329 - very encouraging experience. thanks for the input!

maidia
09/24/2015, 12:51 PM
I got same problem 2 months ago. Algae all over from sum, overflow and display tank..I almost used the hammer to break all. I changed water every day, run GFO, dosed Vinegar and vodka..help but not much, I did search here and there...so I started using the Algaefix. Boom in 3-4 weeks algae fade aways and now my tank clean and clear of algae. If you try Algaefix, then be patient let it kick in and it will help a lot...

oblio
09/24/2015, 02:03 PM
Ron, I don't necessarily disagree with anything anyone has mentioned thus far but I do think that we might be overlooking the single biggest change you introduced to the system. The water, I looked up Vero Beach Water Report and as usual in Florida they are using Chloramines as a disinfectant. As a fellow Floridian I must remove this also. Until I focused my attention on this aspect of my tank I constantly battled "issues" I run a double carbon block, RO, double DI canister set up and then I add Prime to the water and mix well before using it. Up until I made this adjustment in my practices I constantly chased one ghost after another. I'm not suggesting this is YOUR issue, I'm simply chiming in as I believe many of us overlook this aspect of the hobby as a potential source of issues.
It dawned on my one day that the single biggest thing any of us introduce to our tanks by volume is the water, be it make up or new mixed. So if the water is "off" then its likely that because we are constantly adding it, any issues that the water might cause will be gradual and then consistent in nature.

I wish you the best of luck sir.

Ron Popeil
09/24/2015, 02:18 PM
oblio - thank you for your input. i considered chloramines as well and have been running catalytic carbon on my RODI for this purpose. im running two DI cartridges as well. while my TDS going into the unit is somewhere around 230 ppm (in oregon my incoming water TDS was 14). coming out it is 0. i picked up some chlorine/chloramine test strips and they registered these chemicals on my incoming water, but not from my water reservoir however.

i could add another chloramine carbon block and start adding prime to my top off water supply and see what happens there.

zachfishman
09/24/2015, 02:25 PM
I agree that PO4 is probably leaching from the rockwork.

For the heck of it, circulate the water in your Brute can and test it for PO4 after it's been sitting several days. It's probably a myth that some trash cans leach PO4, but it's worth a 5min test.

Ron Popeil
09/24/2015, 03:10 PM
zachfishman - i havent swirled the water in the FW resevoir, but i have taken water from it specifically to test for PO4 and come up empty handed.

maidia - algaefix is certainly worth a shot. ill see if i can find some and test it on a small scale.

cisco64
09/24/2015, 03:14 PM
I heard a sales rep. From red sea say not to use no pox with gfo because it will eliminate all the po4, and starve your coral and inverts. Very bad for the tank.
I used the high capacity gfo from brs, and after a couple of weeks my tank was clean. My rocks were black with algea, and they got completely white. Try the recommended amount in a reactor. It worked for me... or get new dry rock.

Mishri
09/24/2015, 03:42 PM
Hehe.. my 40 gallon, no algae at all.. my 75 gallon, hair algae city.. The difference? 40 gallon is 100% TBS live rock.. the 75 gallon, dry rock.. :D

Leaching PO4 would be my bet, nothing you are doing wrong. Yes, that die off soaked into your rocks and now needs removed. I will be patient with my 75 gallon.. it will be FOWLR until it calms down. it isn't out of control, just unsightly. I can wait a few years if necessary..

OrionN
02/04/2016, 10:17 PM
So, is this tank doing better? How did you do it?

Ron Popeil
02/05/2016, 10:06 AM
hi minh, in september i disassembled this aquarium. finally. it was painful to look at and fortunately i was moving so it provided a great opportunity. i was very close to just selling everything and being done with saltwater.

all of my liverock was scrubbed down with a hose and a brush and placed inside a brute garbage can with a lid. in the dark.
my sand was thrown away.

i set up a 100 gallon rubbermaid trough, using just a pump and my skimmer. both were soaked and scrubbed in freshwater. i used just a single 400w halide over the top.

all of my remaining corals and clams were scrubbed down, dipped in RODI water and placed in the trough. sps included! the theory was this would sterilize the dinoflagelletes so i wasnt contaminating this new system.

so, for the last seven months i have not seen any algae. no dinoflagellates. nothing. a few corals were still attached to liverock that had been covered in both pests. it all went away. i purchased new caribbean liverock to help as filtration in the trough and in preparation for when i set my tank up (in case my old rock was so full of nutrients they would always cause algae explosions). this rock has not developed any invasive algae.

about a month ago, i decided to experiment and remove my favorite pieces of old liverock from the brute can and place them in the trough. i was nervous, thinking that with 400w of light, suddenly i would see a complete system relapse with algae and dinoflagellates reinfecting everything. particularly since one of the running theories was that they were so saturated with nutrients and phosphates they would continually leach.

nothing changed. no algae grew on these rocks. no dinoflagelletes returned.

i now have most of my old liverock in my trough, and have no ill affects. i added a small less than 20 gallon refugium with some chaeto and gracilaria and no have no issues with nitrates or phosphates. but they werent a problem prior to this either.

im entirely confused as to what could have possibly been the source of my disasterous year prior, but for now just grateful im not enduring it any more.

was it something in the rock?
was it something in the water from that particular house?
was it the AI Sols?
was it the sand?

no idea. ill hopefully be setting up the tank in my home in the next 4 to 6 months. for now they are fine in my garage in their trough. but either way, nothing seemed to work while the tank was set up last year. and not really much has changed now.

OrionN
02/05/2016, 10:42 AM
Ron,
Great to hear.
I never have success with reuse LR unless it go from one tank to the other. There is a lot of merit in cooking the rock.
I never have any success with re-use LS unless I take it out to my driveway and wash it with my garden hose until the water run clear.

I am glad that your problem seem to resolved and looking forward to seeing your new tank setup in a few months

moatdaddy
02/05/2016, 01:17 PM
Ron, sorry to hear about your teardown, look into an Algae Turf Scrubber as ReefFrog suggested. Just some before and after photos will probably get you back in. Good luck with future en devours.

PhaneSoul
02/19/2016, 09:39 AM
Betcha it was the sand. Pretty good nutrient sponge the sand is. Unless you were using tap water

oseymour
02/20/2016, 09:47 PM
What RODI unit are you using? Your new city water might have chloramines while you still have a RODI unit that is removing chlorine and not chloramines.

Ron Popeil
02/21/2016, 06:00 PM
phanesoul - sand is definitely a possibility. considering im not having any algae issues now...and i also have no sand. but it had been all new sand. its hard for me to wrap my head around it saturating with so many nutrients in so little amount of time. less than a year.

oseymour - i use catalytic carbon to remove chloramines. that was certainly a concern as vero beach loves dumping chloramines into the water. i also ran tests to see how much chloramine was getting through and so far ive still been running at zero. must mean im changing my cartridges frequently enough.

Ron Popeil
05/02/2017, 12:29 PM
!!!!UPDATE!!!!

so in july of 2016, i restarted my aquarium. in spite of purchasing nearly 100 lbs of new liverock from the florida keys, i ended up using very little of it. instead using most of the same pieces from my previous set up, rock that is nearly ten years old. i did buy all new sand.

i poured the sand in. i put my rock together. i replaced my RODI cartridges and began to refill.

there were a few months of algae and that brown bubbling slime that i can only attribute to dinoflagellates. i was certain there was going to be no stopping it again and i was just doomed.

but then i added some trochus snails and within just a few days not only was the green bushy algae completely gone, but the dinoflagellates also disappeared. its now may and my reef tank is a reef tank again. i have frags everywhere because i didnt want waste money on colonies only to have them smothered by algae and slime.
so what happened? what changed? where did all the problems suddenly go?

to be honest, im not sure. very little was changed since i restarted my aquarium and the issues started to go away on their own. ive been issue free for several months now. its incredible. Anyone have any additional ideas?

here are some updated pictures of my tank and inhabitants showing how nice the rock is looking currently:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/CF2B1DD1-D823-47A6-B059-189DEE514318_zpsffwwxyww.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/CF2B1DD1-D823-47A6-B059-189DEE514318_zpsffwwxyww.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/2F32ACF9-09ED-4CE1-A2EC-2FF0C8B17936_zpsvf8vrdos.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/2F32ACF9-09ED-4CE1-A2EC-2FF0C8B17936_zpsvf8vrdos.jpg.html)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/ronaldpopeil/c2e2db2a-257c-474e-a232-58e1ee4ca5fc_zpsyc7jza3s.png (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/ronaldpopeil/media/c2e2db2a-257c-474e-a232-58e1ee4ca5fc_zpsyc7jza3s.png.html)

Bronx19
05/02/2017, 08:51 PM
Might be a time to break out the Vibrant:

https://www.*********.com/threads/vibrant-liquid-aquarium-cleaner-discussion-thread.271428/

Crush Coral
05/02/2017, 09:10 PM
If HA returns the silver bullet is a drug called fluconazole. After a 4 year battle this dI'd the trick. Works for almost everybody. Google treating a marine aquarium with fluconazole and follow the advise. I enjoy my tank again.

boxfishpooalot
05/03/2017, 12:18 AM
The amount of po4 in rock is negligible. Po4 comes mainly from fish food, fish poop and other rotting things. The biggest source of po4 in any tank is a sand bed.

Timfish
05/03/2017, 08:02 AM
Good to see your success! You raised a couple interesting questions and here's my perspective and some links:

I noticed years and years ago that there didn't seem to be an association between nutrient levels and nuisance algae, just the opposite of what many gurus were telling aquarists. I also noticed skimmers didn't seem to be relevent for long term success of reef systems, see my thread here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2601390&highlight=skimmerless).

Along with some of Delbeek and Sprung's stuff, Moe's research in the mid '90s on the diadem urchins and the effect their demise had on the caribbean reefs helped me come to the realization nutrients weren't the problem per se. At the time an obvious conclusion was the urchins were helping by dumping nutrients back into the system by eating algae and then pooping. Corals needed nutrients for their symbiotic algae and those nutrients were probaly the same for nuisance algae.

In 2009 I started getting more active on forums and wondering more about the discrepancies between what I had been seeing in my tanks and what "gurus" were saying I started looking up research. Checking the research used to justify keeping low PO4 it was surprising there were scientists who had serious criticizims and there was research completely contradicting the notion that PO4 needs to be kept at .03 mg/l. ("bisphosphonate may not inhibit formation of amorphous calcium carbonate (http://jeb.biologists.org/content/jexbio/205/14/2107.full.pdf)"). And there was research showing increased phosphate increased corals growth (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022098111004588). Finding phosphate is a limiting nutrient (http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full) for corals to utilize ammonia and nitrate expanded my understanding of nutrient cycling in a reef ecosystem and inside corals

Another interesting series of papers was Ken Feldman's, et al, look at GAC, TOC, skimmer performance and bacterial counts published on Advanced Aquarist. One item that stood out was we do not have a metric for determining a skimmers performance like we do for lights or for pumps (and I felt pretty good I had notice skimmers weren't that effective :D). More importantly I was introduced to TOC.

Wondering more about TOC I stumbled across Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas". This book has helped put all the research I've read and my experiences over the years into perspective. And some recent research by some of Rohwer's associates, presents a pretty good argument what we are often seeing in our reef systems when we have algae problems is very complex chemical and microbial warfare, not a simple nutrient issue:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719129/
http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/v7/n5/full/ismej2012161a.html?message=remove
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719127/

FoxFace Fish
05/03/2017, 11:53 AM
I mean when i had a bad algae bloom i simply would just scrub it away, and starve it of light i had a 48 hour black out period with only a little bit of light every 8 hours. I feed the coral extra food to keep them going durning this. I also did a water change then cleaned a couple live rocks off.