Anthias are hiding after being active for months

[amcvay1979]

I have been slowly losing some of my lyretail anthias and thought they were all gone but today found my last female with its head in a cave. I thought it was dead so I touched it and it began swimming. It's still hiding and I hadn't seen it for over a week.

Strange thing is, my most aggressive and largest Anthias, a stocky male, is behaving the same way. He's been hiding in plane sight for weeks, not swimming around and not actively feeding. I can see him on the bottom hiding between rocks. I've seen him swim around the rock, but never freely swimming.

Both of these fish were active eaters and swimmers for months and now both are acting like they're dieing. Neither exhibit any quick breathing or swimming upside down or anything like a dieing fish would and that's what has me so puzzled.

Water params test great, no new additions except a large mimic tang about 3 weeks ago, but it was not aggressive towards the anthias. I had a ph issue a couple months ago that I have since solved and I lost some anthias around this time as well. I feed 3 times a day and I feed mostly Rods Food with added fish eggs and plankton (both rods).

Any thoughts?

[CuzzA]

Did you qt the tang? It's too hard to say with the amount of info given, but it's likely one of four things. 1) Anthias usually require multiple feedings due to a high activity rate and fast metabolism. They could be starving to death. 2) Tangs are aggressive fish. May have bullied them to death. 3) Stray electrical is known to put fish into hiding and eventual death. And finally 4) The most probably cause is when you introduced the tang you also introduced a parasite and it has killed the anthias. The tang may be healthy enough that it masked whatever parasite it has.

Sorry about your loses.

[amcvay1979]

The 2 anthias are still alive, look healthy, colorful, breathing normal but they aren't eating. Just hiding. When I lost a few anthias it was prior to the tang addition.

[amcvay1979]

Could they be changing sexes? If that's what it is, would they do this slowly and be inactive during the transformation?

[ca1ore]

Hard to say. Lyretails are notorious for winnowing themselves down beginning with the female at the bottom of the pecking order. Eventually you end up with just one, usually the male, that then dies of loneliness. Cannot explain the stocky though.

[nuxx]

Hard to say. Lyretails are notorious for winnowing themselves down beginning with the female at the bottom of the pecking order. Eventually you end up with just one, usually the male, that then dies of loneliness. Cannot explain the stocky though.

True... our 5 have become 4.

Hutchii's doing the thing... 5 now 4.

[amcvay1979]

So I've got some lonely, bummed out anthias? Should I add another of each so they have a pal?

[Greentree]

How are they doing? My dispars are acting the exact same way. They're still fat and healthy looking with good appetites - but they hide between rocks and don't swim around.

[amcvay1979]

I've lost all of my anthias and I'm not replacing them. They don't seem to be well suited to tank life, at least my tank.

[laga77]

I have lost two groups of Anthias like this. It was not a food issue as I made sure they were well fed with a variety of foods. One day they look great being active and the next they get neurotic. I have no idea why this happens.

[suta4242]

Have only seen this happen once, and that's when I added a boisterous planktivore to the tank. All the golden anthias went into hiding.

Removed the fish and it went back to normal. But lyretails are tough. If your tang is not being a bully then perhaps its a disease.

Hope you find a solution soon.

:wave:
Angie

[davocean]

It's hard to say for sure what caused the chain of events.
I have read about this and usually something originally stressed them, usually being lacking diet(not your case from your comment) and once they hide in caves they rarely bounce back.
As for lyretails picking themselves off I have never experienced this myself, and I've had 2 groups in different tanks long term, when I hear of this behavior normally it is w/ bartletts, not the lyretails.
It could have been something that came w/ the new tang, or possibly a chain of events stemming from your PH issues, and both those are just shooting in the dark at what may be.

[Nanighan]

I can never keep anthias long term. Even the easy ones like lyretails and bartletts. Always seem to decline after about a year and a half. They will eat, and look fat and happy. Then the sudden inactivity, and then death soon follows. I stay away from them now.

[snorvich]

Reclusive behavior and mortality coupled with an addition three weeks ago suggests velvet.

[davocean]

^^ Good to see you back on board Steve!

[snorvich]

^^ Good to see you back on board Steve!

Thanks!! Since I am going through chemo (latest tomorrow) I am insane for about 9 days afterwards and hesitate to do much here as my mind is mush.

[davocean]

Sorry to hear and my Mother is going through same so I understand, you have been missed by many.

[snorvich]

Sorry to hear and my Mother is going through same so I understand, you have been missed by many.

It is tough. In my case, surgery removed the cancer and the chemo is to nail any hidden cells. As such it is relatively less than what most folks get.

So, during periods of sanity, I try to help out here as much as my body and mind will allow. Thanks for your kind thoughts Dave.

[RedStangGA]

It is tough. In my case, surgery removed the cancer and the chemo is to nail any hidden cells. As such it is relatively less than what most folks get.

So, during periods of sanity, I try to help out here as much as my body and mind will allow. Thanks for your kind thoughts Dave.

Didn't realize that was the reason for your absence. Thoughts and prayers your way for a complete recovery. And thank you for still lending a helping mind when you feel up to it. You're stocking recommendations were spot on for me and I do appreciate it!

As to the Anthias, I'm curious as to what the end cause was. Setting up a 220 and thinking of 2 different medium sized(6-7 members) harems.

[BlackTip]

Thanks!! Since I am going through chemo (latest tomorrow) I am insane for about 9 days afterwards and hesitate to do much here as my mind is mush.

Steve:
I know you only from your very informative posts. You have been always very helpful. I wish you full and speedy recovery. I will keep you in my prayers.

[amcvay1979]

From my observations from trying to establish harems and reading about how to do it, the lyretails and most other species are just plain mean to each other. The females will basically pick on the smallest in the group constantly, chasing it around the tank and eventually it will starve or just get so stressed it stops eating. Didn't matter if I added them all at the same time, or a few at a time, the smallest one would eventually be so picked on that it would die. Same with Bartlett's, the smallest would just get picked on to death. You'd see fins with bites out of them, etc. I really did love the constant swimming and schools of anthias in my tank but I'm just done with them, I think they belong in the ocean and that's where I'll keep them.

[karimwassef]

They need a common enemy and a larger community to socialize with.

[BlackTip]

I wanted Anthias, since I started design my tank. I was about to pull the trigger and buy 7 Dispars last month, but I changed my mind at the last minute. Everything I read, indicates that they are almost impossible to keep for the long term. I was told by an experienced reefer that I need one male and at least 10-12 females, so the aggression is distributed among large number. Although, I still like them and I'd love to try, I am very hesitant, and most likely won't do it.

[RedStangGA]

I wanted Anthias, since I started design my tank. I was about to pull the trigger and buy 7 Dispars last month, but I changed my mind at the last minute. Everything I read, indicates that they are almost impossible to keep for the long term. I was told by an experienced reefer that I need one male and at least 10-12 females, so the aggression is distributed among large number. Although, I still like them and I'd love to try, I am very hesitant, and most likely won't do it.

Hmm, I'd thought about doing 6-7 Lyretails and 6-7 of another anthias like resplendent, ingnitus, or evansi in my upcoming 220 build. But if it takes that large of a harem to keep them happy I'd certainly go with a single type.

Anthias and wrasses are my favorite fish by far so I'm likely to give it a shot. The only fish coming over from my 60 are a pair of ocellaris and an orange back fairy wrasse. Kids want a tang or two and I wouldn't mind a yellow but that could well be the only one. I'd prefer more smaller fish to a few large ones. So anthias could fit that bill very well.

[karimwassef]

when I first added them

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nvwztbOczuQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

intimidated by the boisterous big tangs

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w4E7U4obybM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

careful curiosity

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uNGUMk9uQlw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BlackTip]

Hmm, I'd thought about doing 6-7 Lyretails and 6-7 of another anthias like resplendent, ingnitus, or evansi in my upcoming 220 build. But if it takes that large of a harem to keep them happy I'd certainly go with a single type.

Anthias and wrasses are my favorite fish by far so I'm likely to give it a shot. The only fish coming over from my 60 are a pair of ocellaris and an orange back fairy wrasse. Kids want a tang or two and I wouldn't mind a yellow but that could well be the only one. I'd prefer more smaller fish to a few large ones. So anthias could fit that bill very well.

I think that would work for you, if your main interest is in Anthias. For me, I'd like to have many different types of fish. It is my first tank, so I want to try every type of fish I can.


Kareem:
That is a great looking tank dude.
Any problems with that many tangs?
What is the bright yellow slender fish in the second video? I like it.

[davocean]

I don't think Lyretails are that difficult to keep at all, and while the male does keep them in check, my tank is still very peaceful, wouldn't have it any other way and would not keep them if it wasn't.
The key is having enough females to spread the males buggering around, at least 3-4 females per male.
Other anthia can be difficult, but from my exp lyretails actually encourage them to eat and lessen the shyness, so IME it worked out great to start w/ lyre's and then add other types of anthia.

[karimwassef]

Kareem:
That is a great looking tank dude.
Any problems with that many tangs?
What is the bright yellow slender fish in the second video? I like it.

Thanks. The tank has a complex rockwork where all the fish can hide and can swim loops avoiding the corner trap situations. There's as much, if not more, water volume behind the visible rockwork as there is in front. It helps keep things 'normal'. It's also a big tank - 3' x 8'.

The tang situation actually gets better with more of them. An aggressor has to worry about being attacked too - so only the biggest can take that risk. And the biggest are more concerned with food than the group of little smaller tangs.

I snorkel and I see these guys in nature. They school together to feed over large distances - they need room to move together as a team.

The same with anthias by the way. They school because it's in their best interest to be together. They find protection and they feed as a group.

The little yellow fish is a banana wrasse - good for parasites.

[BlackTip]

Thanks. The tank has a complex rockwork where all the fish can hide and can swim loops avoiding the corner trap situations. There's as much, if not more, water volume behind the visible rockwork as there is in front. It helps keep things 'normal'. It's also a big tank - 3' x 8'.

The tang situation actually gets better with more of them. An aggressor has to worry about being attacked too - so only the biggest can take that risk. And the biggest are more concerned with food than the group of little smaller tangs.

I snorkel and I see these guys in nature. They school together to feed over large distances - they need room to move together as a team.

The same with anthias by the way. They school because it's in their best interest to be together. They find protection and they feed as a group.

The little yellow fish is a banana wrasse - good for parasites.

Sounds like you have a perfect habitat for your fish.

When I did my rockwork, I placed the rocks about 6-7" from the back wall for more flow, then I regretted it. I felt like I wasted space, but it was too late to modify it. Is that how your rockwork set up?


Does your banana wrasse harass or eat shrimps like peppermint and skunk cleaner?

[karimwassef]

The back area needs to be actively circulated or it gets sick. I had to add additional hidden powerheads that create no visible flow, but move water through the background.

I have as much as 20" back there in some cases. Corals grow in the lit area, so the lit surface area is what determines the living space.

My banana wrasse is a pod/worm/parasite eater. Doesn't bother the bigger shrimp. My melanarus is the same.