View Full Version : where does ich come from?
johnfallon135
10/26/2015, 11:31 PM
do all fish have it then it releases until they're stressed and have weakened immune systems or is it a external parasite from the ocean?
snorvich
10/27/2015, 04:02 AM
do all fish have it then it releases until they're stressed and have weakened immune systems or is it a external parasite from the ocean?
An external parasite. However in the ocean, which is not a confined environment, it is not serious. In a confined environment, the effect is exponential.
Deinonych
10/27/2015, 08:32 AM
Everything you need to know about Cryptocaryon irritans in one article:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
johnfallon135
10/27/2015, 11:12 AM
so once you kill ich in a hospital tank properly it can never come back?
so once you kill ich in a hospital tank properly it can never come back?
correct... until you add it back via an untreated item.
Ich is a parasite, i.e. a living organism, so once it is dead, it is dead dead gone.
you of course need to make sure that your DT is also Ich free though.
Dmorty217
10/27/2015, 02:23 PM
Just assume that ALL fish have ich (most really do from the large holding systems they came out of before being shipped to you)
Ich is always present just waiting for the fish to become stressed and weak
johnfallon135
10/27/2015, 02:32 PM
yes but how was it created in the first place? do you guys know where it comes from other than it recycling on fishes? what in the ocean actually created them?
yes but how was it created in the first place? do you guys know where it comes from other than it recycling on fishes? what in the ocean actually created them?
Ich/crypto has always been present and is on some fish in the ocean, naturally.
As mentioned either above or in another post, i forget which, in a closed system like in your tank or in a fish store or distributor, the parasite transfers VERY quickly from one fish to another.
hence why it is just best for sanity to assume that all fish have it and treat accordingly.
Ich is always present just waiting for the fish to become stressed and weak
and obviously this response is incorrect from the standpoint of treated fish, but otherwise yes, unless you have treated from the get-go, it is likely always present in your tank even if you don't see it (the effects).
Deinonych
10/27/2015, 04:54 PM
Ich is always present just waiting for the fish to become stressed and weak
Demonstrably false.
ThRoewer
10/27/2015, 05:12 PM
yes but how was it created in the first place? do you guys know where it comes from other than it recycling on fishes? what in the ocean actually created them?
Depending on your believes you may blame God or evolution :debi:
snorvich
10/27/2015, 05:37 PM
Depending on your believes you may blame God or evolution :debi:
ROTFLMAO. You left out the alien invasion option. :twitch:
Deinonych
10/27/2015, 06:04 PM
Depending on your believes you may blame God or evolution :debi:
Winner winner chicken dinner.
ThRoewer
10/27/2015, 08:16 PM
ROTFLMAO. You left out the alien invasion option. :twitch:
No, that would be covered by both options as well since the aliens were either created themselves by God or evolution...
Demonstrably false.
For the treated fish
and obviously this response is incorrect from the standpoint of treated fish, but otherwise yes, unless you have treated from the get-go, it is likely always present in your tank even if you don't see it (the effects).
Correct
snorvich
10/29/2015, 03:51 AM
Correct
If you have always kept it out of your display tank using TTM, your display tank does not have it.
If you have always kept it out of your display tank using TTM, your display tank does not have it.
Untill you add your next UNTREATED, UNQUARANTINED fish
snorvich
10/29/2015, 04:04 AM
Untill you add your next UNTREATED, UNQUARANTINED fish
Which of course, would not be smart and would be inconsistent with prior ich eradication.
Which of course, would not be smart and would be inconsistent with prior ich eradication.
Which happens alot in beginner tanks
Which happens alot in beginner tanks
see it all the time where someone takes the 'advice' of some kid in a LFS and adds in a "QT'ed fish" or "immune fish" straight out of their water system. Boom, Ich is back.
Another big one is adding in non-fish that aren't isolated long enough first. Plenty of people say that must have been the source of a re-infestation.
Johnb123
10/29/2015, 11:12 AM
see it all the time where someone takes the 'advice' of some kid in a LFS and adds in a "QT'ed fish" or "immune fish" straight out of their water system. Boom, Ich is back.
Another big one is adding in non-fish that aren't isolated long enough first. Plenty of people say that must have been the source of a re-infestation.
Are you referring to live rock and corals?
Are you referring to live rock and corals?
yes among anything else 'wet', such as macro algae, shrimp, etc.
i'd say live rock is the most ripe for bringing in a cyst hitchhiker though. corals on the boney exposured parts too perhaps.
Ich is an animal. It is an independent animal for most of its life cycle. It's like a mosquito: it needs blood/fishy substance as part of its life cycle---you don't go around with mosquitos popping out of you. You aren't born that way. You attract them when you sleep in swamps. Fishes' nighttime sleeping spots become infested in a very limited tank and the little beasts reproduce in the sandbed after dropping off a fishy meal source. Think mosquitoes. Not every tank has them. Not every fish has them.
Alexraptor
10/29/2015, 04:22 PM
For the treated fish
Eh, far from all untreated and wild caught fish actually have ich.
In the decade I have been in the hobby, only "once" have I ever run across a fish that has actually been carrying ich.
That said, having no quarantine procedure is always Russian Roulette to a degree.
johnfallon135
10/29/2015, 05:14 PM
yes among anything else 'wet', such as macro algae, shrimp, etc.
i'd say live rock is the most ripe for bringing in a cyst hitchhiker though. corals on the boney exposured parts too perhaps.
so do you isolate your corals and inverts for 72 days?
seamonster124
10/29/2015, 05:22 PM
Untill you add your next UNTREATED, UNQUARANTINED fish
What about until u add anything from another tank or ocean? Can ich reside on a drag feom the store if that tank has fish with ich?
ThRoewer
10/29/2015, 06:05 PM
Eh, far from all untreated and wild caught fish actually have ich.
In the decade I have been in the hobby, only "once" have I ever run across a fish that has actually been carrying ich.
That said, having no quarantine procedure is always Russian Roulette to a degree.
It is usually enough if one infected fish is collected and housed with all the others for a couple of days until being shipped out. Most exporters just have large interconnected holding tanks and just one sick fish is enough to infect the system and any further fish handled through it.
The next place where diseases are proliferated are the wholesalers. The better ones usually run their systems with some degree of medication or other means of disease control (for example industrial grade UV sterilizers) but that usually just stops full outbreaks and tank to tank spreading.
But in general, the worst offenders are the local fish stores that house all fish together, sometimes even with inverts that can carry cysts on their shells or base rocks.
Also that are fish not showing any symptoms doesn't mean they are clean. They may very well carry an infection but are strong enough to keep it contained. If all fish in a system are strong enough to keep ich under wrap it may actually fade into extinction, but betting on that carries the same odds as Russian roulette.
mattcoug
10/29/2015, 07:27 PM
Eh, far from all untreated and wild caught fish actually have ich.
In the decade I have been in the hobby, only "once" have I ever run across a fish that has actually been carrying ich.
That said, having no quarantine procedure is always Russian Roulette to a degree.
Do you collect fish directly? I see fish with ich in every lfs, every visit.
Eh, far from all untreated and wild caught fish actually have ich.
In the decade I have been in the hobby, only "once" have I ever run across a fish that has actually been carrying ich.
That said, having no quarantine procedure is always Russian Roulette to a degree.
Yeah true when they have just been cuaght, also ich is not much of a problem in the ocean even if they do get it they dont even have to fight for their life, nearly all fish in the ocean will win the fight.
so do you isolate your corals and inverts for 72 days?
correct. and yes I do that.
i am starting my tank over right now and plan to just keep my tank fishless for a long while so that I can use my DT as a QT for corals and inverts. will be a heck of a lot easier than going at it in my 20g QT.
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