fastest and most efficient way to cure live rock?

[Johnb123]

obviously we'll rule out the damsel method lol

otherwise we have the shrimp and additives method. given that we're curing dead live rock or man made rock (without the help of other live rock) what's the fastest and most efficient/beneficial method? please describe using time frames if possible thank you!

[Dkuhlmann]

IMO its faster to put pure ammonia straight into the tub of rock and get it to 2ppm. Make sure it's ammonia without any additives, can get it most anywhere that sells house cleaning products.

[Johnb123]

IMO its faster to put pure ammonia straight into the tub of rock and get it to 2ppm. Make sure it's ammonia without any additives, can get it most anywhere that sells house cleaning products.

ammonia in a bottle? what is it used for in cleaning products? should i use a skimmer too or just a heater? what would cure faster dead live rock or clean marco rock?

[toothybugs]

Dead live rock or clean Marco rock... define clean :) Marco normally needs to be acid washed to rid the outer 'shell' of phosphate adhesion or other debris IIRC. You will only need a heater (well, probably - my ambient seems to be 74F which is good enough for me) and a powerhead for water movement (I use a cheap MaxiJet 1200 in a 45gal tote).

Ammonia in a bottle is easy. Dr Tim has a little 2oz bottle that you can get off Amazon for 2-3 bucks. You don't need much, really. What is your tank size?

[Church75]

Are you trying to cure or cycle? Ammonia/shrimp/etc is used for cycling the tank and establishing bacteria. Curing the rock is getting rid of the phosphates and other things you don't want in your tank.

[Dkuhlmann]

ammonia in a bottle? what is it used for in cleaning products? should i use a skimmer too or just a heater? what would cure faster dead live rock or clean marco rock?

I never run a skimmer when cycling my tank or just rock. Yes it's in a bottle and sold in most grocery stores or hardware stores in the cleaning products area. Many have additives of scents and other additives make sure you get one without any additives. The heater will be fine. Any of the rock will cure/cycle about the same rate it's all the same nitrogen cycle process. Going with ammonia will eliminate a week easily from the normal 4-6 week process. Ammonia turns into nitrites and then into nitrates. It's not cycled until both ammonia and nitrites are at 0.

[Johnb123]

When adding ammonia I don't need to add bacteria to turn it into nitrates right? Ammonia does that on its own?

[WaReefer458]

I fully cycled my rock in my 40 in 15 days. Put in a small chunk of salmon for ammonia and used microbacter daily. Good flow is a plus. I did mine with the light on and ended up with a fair amount of algae when it was done but I'd probably say no light is better. Also I ran my skimmer during the cycle but never had it pull anything out until I added fish. I don't think it is nessisary but it won't hurt anything.

[kmbyrnes]

You need some kind of starter bacterial colony. Some live rock from the LFS or an additive. I have always used ammonia + live rock and I am happy with the results. Try ACE for the ammonia and as stated above be sure there are no additives or surfactants.

[oseymour]

Please don't use cleaning ammonia that you find in stores. It will have other additives that you don't want in your tank.

The easiest way to cycle your tank is to use starter bacteria cultures such as Biospira or Dr Tims.

I used Dr Tims on my old tank and it was able to process ammonia and nitrites right away. I safely added fish after 4 days. I used BioSpira recently when I re-aquascaped and removed some rock and detected ammonia, immediately it was gone.

[Dugless]

Even if the rock is cycled to the point where nitrates are measuring zero. The biological activity will only be able to process the bio load in which it was cycled. Just because these activities are present, doesn't mean you don't have to move slowly in order to ramp up the population of this biological presence. I would caution any expediting of this process. Just a thought.

[liverock]

obviously we'll rule out the damsel method lol

otherwise we have the shrimp and additives method. given that we're curing dead live rock or man made rock (without the help of other live rock) what's the fastest and most efficient/beneficial method? please describe using time frames if possible thank you!

Why not start out with real live rock that you don't have to cure?

[Johnb123]

If I'm going to use some live rock from the store then I wouldn't have to use ammonia for the rest of the uncycled rocks since the bacteria from the live rock could just spread right?

[Green Chromis]

Why not start out with real live rock that you don't have to cure? :fish1: I agree, using live rock only, is the way to go. Adding Dr. Tim's or any other bacteria solution is not the same as using a high quality live rock. There is so much more to live rock then just the bacteria in and on the rock. :fish1:

[Johnb123]

It's cause of the 72 day wait time I'm hesitant on using live rock

[Dkuhlmann]

Please don't use cleaning ammonia that you find in stores. It will have other additives that you don't want in your tank.

The easiest way to cycle your tank is to use starter bacteria cultures such as Biospira or Dr Tims.

I used Dr Tims on my old tank and it was able to process ammonia and nitrites right away. I safely added fish after 4 days. I used BioSpira recently when I re-aquascaped and removed some rock and detected ammonia, immediately it was gone.

You must have missed where I said don't buy the ones with any additives? Yes they do sell plain ammonia in both grocery stores and hardware stores and its located in the cleaning section. But you have to read the bottle first to make sure nothing is added!!!!

[Dugless]

72 days for what?

[broke1]

72 days for what?

My guess would be an ICH fallow period.

[Johnb123]

My guess would be an ICH fallow period.

Correct

[srope]

Even if the rock is cycled to the point where nitrates are measuring zero. The biological activity will only be able to process the bio load in which it was cycled. Just because these activities are present, doesn't mean you don't have to move slowly in order to ramp up the population of this biological presence. I would caution any expediting of this process. Just a thought.

+10 Nailed it! Great advice there.:bounce3:

[Johnb123]

Ammonia automatically turns into nitrites and nitrates on its own right? No other bacteria is needed to break it down?

[Dkuhlmann]

Ammonia automatically turns into nitrites and nitrates on its own right? No other bacteria is needed to break it down?

Well, it doesn't actually turn into it's a bit more complex than that but yes ammonia will start to decrease as your nitrites rise. Then the nitrites start falling off and you will read nitrates. Once the ammonia and nitrites are down to 0 your tank is cycled and you can do a big water change to get rid of most of the nitrates.

You don't need do do anything accept add the ammonia, the rest is the nitrogen cycle.

[Johnb123]

Well, it doesn't actually turn into it's a bit more complex than that but yes ammonia will start to decrease as your nitrites rise. Then the nitrites start falling off and you will read nitrates. Once the ammonia and nitrites are down to 0 your tank is cycled and you can do a big water change to get rid of most of the nitrates.

You don't need do do anything accept add the ammonia, the rest is the nitrogen cycle.

thanks!

so what's the best and fastest way? lol!

[Dkuhlmann]

The fastest way is to put ammonia in just like I said in both of my posts. Otherwise you have to wait for the fish food or piece of shrimp or fish to turn to ammonia. Starting with ammonia lessens your wait by about a week. The only really fast way is to start with live rock from the start.
Remember if you do go the ammonia way make sure there are no additives in it. Fist hint is that there are no scents like pine or whatever. Then read the bottle, you don't want any additives only ammonia. Do a Google search for ammonia no additives and see what you come up with. But most grocery stores and hardware stores carry at least one that has no additives.

[Johnb123]

The fastest way is to put ammonia in just like I said in both of my posts. Otherwise you have to wait for the fish food or piece of shrimp or fish to turn to ammonia. Starting with ammonia lessens your wait by about a week. The only really fast way is to start with live rock from the start.
Remember if you do go the ammonia way make sure there are no additives in it. Fist hint is that there are no scents like pine or whatever. Then read the bottle, you don't want any additives only ammonia. Do a Google search for ammonia no additives and see what you come up with. But most grocery stores and hardware stores carry at least one that has no additives.

thanks! what's ammonia in a bottle normally used for?

[DubiousMaximus]

Adding bacteria doesn't speed up the process, it just adds those strains to the mix. Feeding bacteria may help growout a culture but in the end, they can only grow & multiply the speed of their biological clocks

One way to help speed up the die off process would be increasing curing tank temps between 80-85°f @ 1.300sg for a week, do 50% w.c. then lower temp to norm and feed bacteria white distilled vinegar

Otherwise, I personally try to keep the die off from happening, lowering temp to 75°f and picking off dead or dying organisms. Id rather have a bunch of critters vs dead rock!

IMO, if you want clean cured rock, get dry rock, build/glue your scape then soak.

[Dkuhlmann]

I answered all of that in the first post. It's in the CLEANING section of either stores. Sorry if I sound snippy but I did say everything in my first post here and you keep asking me questions that were already answered.

[Dkuhlmann]

Adding bacteria doesn't speed up the process, it just adds those strains to the mix. Feeding bacteria may help growout a culture but in the end, they can only grow & multiply the speed of their biological clocks

One way to help speed up the die off process would be increasing curing tank temps between 80-85°f @ 1.300sg for a week, do 50% w.c. then lower temp to norm and feed bacteria white distilled vinegar

Otherwise, I personally try to keep the die off from happening, lowering temp to 75°f and picking off dead or dying organisms. Id rather have a bunch of critters vs dead rock!

IMO, if you want clean cured rock, get dry rock, build/glue your scape then soak.

You're correct in that adding bacteria does nothing to help speed up the process and that the process is what it is. You can't change the process it has to happen in it's own time.

I wouldn't do any water changes until the cycle is complete and that is to get rid of nitrates, doing a wc during the cycle does nothing but waste money and time IMO. I also wouldn't add any vinegar during the cycle it does not feed bacteria. Vinegar is a carbon binder that will attach to the nitrates and I still think it's not a good idea during the cycle.

It's those dying organisms that are the source of ammonia in a normal cycle of using live rock in a cycle process. Them dying is very beneficial to the nitrogen cycle

If you start with dry dead rock then you will have to provide an ammonia source to start the process of the nitrogen cycle. If you don't add any source for that ammonia (ammonia, fish food, shrimp or piece of fish even live rock) I doubt your tank would ever cycle.

[Johnb123]

if it's dead live rock it could cycle its own ammonia right?

[CStrickland]

Feed bacteria white distilled vinegar

What is your rationale for that?

[Irishman360]

Don't mean to high jack this thread but does anyone know the website on how much ammonia to use per gallon etc..

[stingeragent]

CS, I believe he is referring to vinegar dosing to reduce nitrates.

[CStrickland]

I know. I think that's a bad idea during the cycle. They aren't carbon limited at that point, more like time limited. Cranking up the sg to 1.3 and adding acidic carbon dosing seems like a rough way to go. I doubt it would speed anything up, but it could cause wacky blooms and just be really unstable generally.