DIY LED Build - LED Selection Question

[EJN]

Hi Everyone, after reading article after article and post after post I am still pretty confused when it comes to selecting the correct number of and wavelength of the LEDs. So after what seems like 100s of hours of research I decided to basically rip-off one of JediMasterBen's builds/recommendations for a somewhat similar build since he seems very knowledgable. But before I commit to it I wanted to make sure no one has any objections or vastly different recommendations. For this new tank I plan on combining the contents of my 40 long and standard 55G.

The new tank will be a 130G (60x18x22 lwh). I plan on using the following LEDs in each cluster:
(1) Vero 10 5K 90 CRI @ 350 mA
(2) Luxeon M RB @ 700 mA
(2) Luxeon Rebel blue @ 700 mA
(2) Luxeon Rebel cyan @ 700 mA
(2) Luxeon Rebel ES lime @ 700 mA
(4) LEDgroupbuy violet
All with 60 degree lenses
I haven't decided how many clusters I am leaning towards 4 unless this doesn't seem like enough to everyone. The center also has a 1 foot glass brace. I hope to be able to keep pretty much anything.

My next question is, if the above LEDs are a good choice, what size heatsink would each cluster need I would be awesome if I could cool it passively but I imagine I will need a fan over each cluster. Would I be able to get away with each cluster on a 10 inch heatsink with a standard 80mm computer fan? www.heatsinkusa .com/8-460-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink-with-t-slots/ Or should I go for a 60 inch regular heatsink? I originally planned on using Arctic Silver Adhesive since the nylon screws were a bit of a pain on the previous build.

I'll try and get some pictures to represent the current lighting of the tank but none of the pictures I have taken really portray the true color of the tank. Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions as I'm open to other build ideas. Thanks!

[EJN]

Here are a couple images of my current setup. Basically I'm wondering how the setup I'm considering would compare to my current lighting? The pics aren't that great as none of them actually depict the true color of the tank. It's somewhere in between the two.
http://s9.postimg.org/x63vw3hzz/DSC00718.jpg
http://s8.postimg.org/xr5u7m9tx/IMG_3886.jpg
http://s1.postimg.org/irh12jxnz/IMG_3885.jpg

[zachts]

I just finished cobbling together an "emergency" light for my display.....at this point I think I'll keep it as colors have not changed at all and if any thing look a little better than under the previous VHOs that up and died on me before completing the build I had intended which was more in line with one of Ben's cluster builds....sort of but on steriods.

ended up with a pretty simple linear build on 1" channel, 3 strips.

front and back strip alternating royal blue, blue, and violet. 10 of each. @ 700ma

middle strip 4 vero 10 5k 90cri, 4 3up 430nm violets and a couple extra violets to fill the holes. all on one string with each group in parrell (4groups, I was in a hurry to get it running and ran out of drivers on hand) roughly running 100ma on each vero, havent measured but just a guesstimate as it's turned down a lot from max which would be around 325ma per group on the ELN. (assuming they share current equally, doubtful but not noticeably different)

15 stars on each strip (had them predrilled for what was going to be a plant light, so not the ideal configuration if I had done it for my tank specifically) End result is very nice, I don't think I'll be needing the cyan or limes, or the reds I had planned on using for spectrum tweaking, though I may get board and add those latter.

Personally I'd use way more violets in the 420-430 range, at least as many or double that of the blues and royal blues combined (that is if you are like me and are a VHO actinic junkie going thru rehab.....)

I've always found most LED systems DIY or comercial lacking in the violet, mostly becuase they say they are going for the spectrum of a radium metal halide which as very little violet. However I've met very few reefers that don't add a few VHO or T5 actinics to add more violet to there metal halides.............

Here's a pic for reference, pretty close to what I see in real life (at least on my computer screen, :lolspin: though the shadows aren't really that dark, but without a tripod and lots of post processing not much to do about that, photographing tanks is tough!) Ignore the dirty glass, my sps have all grown to the point I can't get in there to clean without breaking one and need to do some major fraging soon!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=10415&pictureid=72278

[EJN]

Thanks Zachts, the violet LEDs I was looking at were the 3-up from GrroupLEDBuyy but RC edited it to clay-boa. I see that Group is out of stock so guess I will likely be going with 8 Steve's LEDs. Let me know if you think this would work well. I'm also curious about the green and red colors. Think I'll leave them out of this build unless I hear some really good things about them. Maybe I should add a pair of red, green, violet Leds or just go with another company for some more single TVs.

I'm really glad to hear that you can put 4+ Vero 10s on a single 1" channel. I thought that would overheat the channel. Perhaps it doesn't since they're under-powered. Think I will go with a single 5" heatsink since it costs close to the same price as the channel from HD and has a lot more surface area.

Wow, your tank looks like it's doing really well and the colors look great as well. Guess it's time to start researching drivers now. Lol!

[zachts]

Thanks Zachts, the violet LEDs I was looking at were the 3-up from GrroupLEDBuyy but RC edited it to clay-boa. I see that Group is out of stock so guess I will likely be going with 8 Steve's LEDs. Let me know if you think this would work well. I'm also curious about the green and red colors. Think I'll leave them out of this build unless I hear some really good things about them. Maybe I should add a pair of red, green, violet Leds or just go with another company for some more single TVs.

I'm really glad to hear that you can put 4+ Vero 10s on a single 1" channel. I thought that would overheat the channel. Perhaps it doesn't since they're under-powered. Think I will go with a single 5" heatsink since it costs close to the same price as the channel from HD and has a lot more surface area.

Wow, your tank looks like it's doing really well and the colors look great as well. Guess it's time to start researching drivers now. Lol!

The 1" Channel doesn't over heat because of the low power to each LED.
I think the 8 violets is a good place to start, If you find you want more Pop adding some linear strips at a latter date I think may be the way to go then.

Rapid LED carries the 420-430nm violets now as well. But I do like the violets from Steve's as they come with 60 degree optics built in.

[EJN]

Thanks. Good to know on all three accounts. Steve's doesn't even mention anything about lenses on their page.

[zachts]

Steve's carries some but they are just the generic kind for the single die LEDs, He does carry very good reflectors for the luxeon M's. for the single LEDs go with the ones from rapid, or similar type, they carry both the ones for Luxeon and cree leds.

The M reflectors will also work on the vero chip but you have to do some modification and just pop the inner silver part out and glue it carefully onto the chip. Personally I don't use optics of any kind on whites or colors but if hanging above an open top tank it could be good to limit light spill into the room. If you have a canopy though, don't bother, and you might also consider not using them on any of the LEDs.

[EJN]

Ok, so I have purchased all of my LEDs and now I need to figure out how to power them. Here's what I bought:

4 Bridgelux Vero 10 (BXRC-40G1000) max 700mA@26.7V
8 Philips Luxeon M ROYAL BLUE 12 Watt LEDs max 1A@11.4V
8 (Rapid) Total Spectrum Violet UV LED max 700mA@13.5V
8 Philips Luxeon ES Lime 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@2.9V
8 Philips Luxeon ES Deep Red 3 Watt LEDs max 700mA@2.2V
8 Philips Luxeon ES Cyan 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@2.95V
8 Philips Luxeon ES True Cool BLUE 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@3.51V

So for the drivers I think I need the following but I'm not sure I have a full grasp on exactly how these drivers work, but here goes.

Ch1 - (4) White Vero 10 max 700mA@26.7V (4)ldd-700h 74.76W
Ch2 - (8) M ROYAL BLUE 12 Watt LEDs max 1A@11.4V (2)ldd-1000h 91.2W
Ch3 - (8) Total Spectrum Violet UV LED max 700mA@13.5V (3)ldd-700h 75.6W
Ch4 - (8) Lime 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@2.9V (1)ldd-1000h 23.2W
Ch5 - (8) Deep Red 3 Watt LEDs max 700mA@2.2V (1)ldd-700h 12.32W
Ch6 - (8) Cyan 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@2.95V (1)ldd-1000h 23.6W
Ch7 - (8) True Cool BLUE 3 Watt LEDs max 1A@3.51V (1)ldd-1000h 28.08W

So for the power supply I'm guessing I need a little more than 48V 328.7W 10.6A which I don't think I will be able to find. I really just wanted to make sure that I am adding everything up correctly. Since I couldn't find anything with these specs I guess I will need at least two PSUs?

[zachts]

You should be able to find something, anything over around 400watts 48v should do the job. or just split the load between two PSUs, which I'd consider doing any how so that if one ever dies on you, you don't loose the whole array and can keep half the lights on while finding a new supply.

They are pricy but I am a big fan of the HLG/CLG lines from meanwell (technically LED drivers but they also function well as a PSU for LDD drivers, must use the "A" model though). Sometimes you can find them on Ebay for cheap. they are nice since they are sealed and highly resistant to damage from moisture, unlike the commonly used open frame PSUs.

[EJN]

Thanks zachts, you've been very helpful. After taking your advice and looking at all the specs I think I'll go with the HLG-320H-48A and the HLG-185H-48A. They provide 321W+187W at 6.7+3.9A so I think together they should provide plenty of juice and provide a decent backup in the event that one should fail. Plus I should have enough reserve in the event that I feel I need to add a 5th cluster. As for the price, well.... everything else has gone over budget on this build so why should the PSU be any different. Lol.

Ok, just to make sure I'm clear on how this these 'power supplies' work, technically it should be fine if I hooked up one 700mA ldd driver and say just one Vero 10. The LED would just use ~ 700mA@26.7V and nothing should explode as they will only consume the energy that they need (700mA), correct? My other question is, is it a bad idea to run the LEDs at their maximum amperage or is that not a big concern? I understand they run at 100% when they are on. How long they are on each second is regulated by the PWM signal. Would it be wise, and prolong longevity if I somehow ran them at lower than their max amperage (smaller LDD or perhaps a resistor or something)? Thanks again!

[zachts]

Thanks zachts, you've been very helpful. After taking your advice and looking at all the specs I think I'll go with the HLG-320H-48A and the HLG-185H-48A. They provide 321W+187W at 6.7+3.9A so I think together they should provide plenty of juice and provide a decent backup in the event that one should fail. Plus I should have enough reserve in the event that I feel I need to add a 5th cluster. As for the price, well.... everything else has gone over budget on this build so why should the PSU be any different. Lol.

Ok, just to make sure I'm clear on how this these 'power supplies' work, technically it should be fine if I hooked up one 700mA ldd driver and say just one Vero 10. The LED would just use ~ 700mA@26.7V and nothing should explode as they will only consume the energy that they need (700mA), correct? My other question is, is it a bad idea to run the LEDs at their maximum amperage or is that not a big concern? I understand they run at 100% when they are on. How long they are on each second is regulated by the PWM signal. Would it be wise, and prolong longevity if I somehow ran them at lower than their max amperage (smaller LDD or perhaps a resistor or something)? Thanks again!

Resistor No, Lower current LDD Yes. Running at the max rating is fine if you need it and have the cooling capacity to handle that, generally not a big deal if the heatsinks base plate is massive enough and you have fan cooling on the fins.

It is generally good practice in the LED design world to not exceed around 70% of a chips designed max current as it does have a dramatic impact over the years, on life span of the LED. Also greatly reduced heat and higher efficiency. You will also gain greater fine tuning control over the LEDs and I would suggest at the least you only run the vero, cyan, and reds at no more than 500mA, and in all reality you will probably be more than happy with running the vero at only 350mA, they are crazy bright. Like having around 9 single white LEDs packed onto a single star chip.

Regarding the power supplies, running only one LDD and a single vero is fine. The PSU provides the voltage and the LDD regulates current to the LED. You will need to be sure you get the right version of the Power Supplies, the one that has the two on board potentiometers (under little black rubber plugs) which allow you to adjust the output voltage and the maximum current. This lets it function as a power supply rather than an LED driver. The current adjust pot is turnned up to maximum so that the PSU can provide it's maximum ratted amperage, you then adjust the voltage down or up, to match the highest voltage string of LEDs (Plus 3v for the LDD). Pay attention to polarity and do not apply power to the LDD without the LED attached.

[EJN]

Awesome, thanks for the advice I think I will drop the 1A LDDs down to 700mA and the 700mA LDDs down to 500mA then in order to be safe on all the LEDs. Think I'll drop the PSUs down a little bit although I only save ~ $20 if I go with 2 HLG-240H-48A (http://www.meanwell.com/mw_search/hlg-240h/HLG-240H-SPEC.PDF)s. One more question, can the PWM from one channel dim LDD/LEDs on two separate power supplies or would that cause problems. Basically wondering if I need to keep all LDDs of one channel on the same PSU or can I mix and match as I please? Sorry for all the questions.

[EJN]

Oh, and the heatsink I got is a huge sucker! 8.46" wide by 56" long. I hope to be able to cool it passively but I may throw a few fans on there anyways.

[zachts]

Well you have the heatsink more than adequatly covered! as long as the fins are open to room air you probably don't need fans, or very very minimal airflow from a couple super quite fans on a temperature sensor. (for those hot summer days when you forget to turn on the AC.......)

You can easily dim LDDs from a single pwm channel that are on multiple power supplies. All you must do is make sure the LDDs negative inputs (from the PSU) are both tied together and also tied to the controller (this connection can happen wherever convenient, usually at the controller, or on the LDD boards if you are using boards to mount them). DO NOT tie the positives from the PSU together however, bad things will happen.

[EJN]

Good thinking, I probably would have tested everything out and if the temps were good I would have just left them out all together. That sounds like a much better idea. Good to know about I can spread one channel across multiple PSUs. Hopefully I won't need to. Just planning ahead. Everything has been ordered now. Just gotta wait till I get the parts and the time to configure everything. Shouldn't be too long though!

[zachts]

a couple thoughts on planning:
if you have most of the blues all on one of the PSUs then in the event one ever fails you can swap in the other psu to keep the blues on which are most important to the coral while waiting on a replacement to arrive......

alternatively many people just do two full clusters on one PSU and the other two on the second, same thing, swap PSUs to light half the tank at a time in the event of a problem.....

[EJN]

Alright, will do. Only problem is I bought two 7-up boards so I can either do the Veros, the Luexon M Royal Blues, and the cool blue (or cyan/lime/red). That or put everything but Veros and UVs on one. I think the first option should be good and just dial the Veros back a bit until I can get another driver.

[zachts]

Run it as is if you already have everything, unless you find you are dimming the veros way , way down a lower mA driver isn't a big deal......