My Nano Mangrove Lagoon

[Eastone]

I want to share my reef, I post mostly on nano-reef, but I'll be able to respond to any questions.

Excuse the poor colours, until this weekend it was running on a DIY biopellet reactor and skimmer, I was on a poor-student shoestring budget! The biopellet reactor was actually part coke bottle. Most of the corals were grown from frags originally in my pico-reef, seen on reef builders here (http://goo.gl/xZhsDB)

I'm working on my SPS coloration now that I have a reliable reactor and skimmer, I think I'll have better control of the nutrients.

http://i.imgur.com/vpbgUNbl.jpg

[MARINECRITTERS]

wow, super natural looking.

[Bcrowe2012]

How tall will the mangroves get? Will the roots grow into the sps at all?

[DesertReefT4r]

I like it different and cool. More pics of the tank and filter system.

[reefmutt]

Oh yeah! More pics please!
This is waaaay cool!

[marthin]

Stunning

[sahin]

I like it. Its unique and I like the sloping sand idea. Do you need to push the sand back regularly or does it stay put now that bacteria and slime has coated the sand grains?

[fearyaks]

That's pretty cool! Do you have any other images you can share?

[Eastone]

Oh man! thanks for the replies. I didn't expect it'd catch on so well :D

How tall will the mangroves get? Will the roots grow into the sps at all?

They'd get to full tree size if I left them be and had a few decades or so aha. If you notice on the lower branch of the top most mangrove, I've bonsai-wired it and am in the process of shaping the canopy. The taller side actually has two more thin branches growing so I've needed to order more bonsai wire to shape it properly. The roots mostly grow close to the surface under the sand, but don't overgrow corals and I don't have fast enough growth to worry about the stilt roots much. It took about 6 months from the root structure of one to grow from a fist to a 6" cube or so.

wow, super natural looking.

Thanks, I try my hardest to make it look authentic. I'm torn between getting a juvenile majestic angelfish to grow out (with the mangroves, I end up upgrading every 6 months) or to try fill it with tiny fish and look more lagoonal

I like it different and cool. More pics of the tank and filter system.

I'll be sure to get some. My filter system looks like garbage, my sump is an ikea plastic clothes storage tote :|

Oh yeah! More pics please!
This is waaaay cool!

I shall do! I had a little rescape to emphasise the central sand plateau so when it clears I'll get some photos.

Stunning

:cool:

I like it. Its unique and I like the sloping sand idea. Do you need to push the sand back regularly or does it stay put now that bacteria and slime has coated the sand grains?

The rock all sits half submerged in the slope, and this alone keeps it up. I get a bit of movement because I didn't build a retaining structure but I fix that with a cup every few weeks. Where do you get your corals from BTW, I go to Great Portland Street but you've got some amazingly colorful pieces that I'd not seen there.

That's pretty cool! Do you have any other images you can share?

I have loads, the best bet is here (http://goo.gl/MR1m4K) where I documented the tank since it started as a DVD storage box from Muji (I had sps in less than 4 gallons of water for some time. Many pieces that you see here started there. I also have an instagram that my girlfriend updates but I've not got the link on me. I'll post a few more images later tonight

[Eastone]

I promised pictures:

http://i.imgur.com/Jo3Lhwxl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WQ2frRBl.jpg

[drawman]

Tank looks great!

[cFloor]

Very cool reef you have! I'd love to know a little more about how you've gotten here with it: maintenance, husbandry, etc.

[900801]

what do you do when they grow too big for your tank?

[Eastone]

Very cool reef you have! I'd love to know a little more about how you've gotten here with it: maintenance, husbandry, etc.

Sure

When it started, the tank was as I'd mentioned a single gallon DVD box that I'd plumbed to a plastic sump. Skimmer was a modified BM Nac5e that would clog frequently unless I purged the venturi and the system was managed by a refurbished aquatronica with a dosing pump. At that time I just dosed a two part from Red Sea along with some colour elements, and my bacteria was maintained by a DIY biopellet reactor. At this time I used to have to dilute most of my dosing regimes to incorporate for the sub 5 gallon system volume.

Since, I've graduated onto a BM G5 with a BM reactor to run all-in-one biopellets, I use the Aquaforest pre-mixed Component 1-3+ balling system which handles my calcium and carbonate and I monitor frequently and graph them as below http://i.imgur.com/9tBs4mg.png
The system consumes/produces 0.7 grams of CaCO3 a day now.

I also use the aquaforest food system and use their bacteria and carbon (I forget the names, but it's similar to Zeovit's system but far cheaper, involves aminos, vitamins and a copper based food supplement to ensure light color corals.) On top of that I feed the tank with Polyplab Reef Roids and pure creatine monohydrate as well as potassium nitrate when necessary, and New Life Spectrum when there are fish in the system.

I don't really test my nutrients, usually they're extremely low due to the mangroves plus the skimmer and biopellets but recently I've noticed some red slime algae which has been a headache for some time now. I feel I need to use a regime of Pohl's Coral Snow to eradicate it and I'm placing an order as we speak!

[reefmutt]

Nice write up.. Thanks.
I'm curious, why do think you need the biopellets?

[Eastone]

what do you do when they grow too big for your tank?

I upgrade! I do so every 6 months or so, It's pretty easy when the tanks are still in the nano range

Nice write up.. Thanks.
I'm curious, why do think you need the biopellets?

I really like the idea of a bacterial filtration system and I'm too erratic to dose liquid carbon as the primary substrate. Especially with the AIO biopellets, I find it very easy to control nutrients and a heavily stocked/fed tank.

My goal with keeping a reef is to create a system where the tank is able to process as close to 100% of the nutrient I put in, then rely on water changes to deal with the residual buildup. That, together with the mangroves which are absolutely amazing at absorbing organics, mean I have exceptionally clear and clean water, so I can dose everything that's needed and know that the tank can process (such as no3, po4 and micronutrients)

The only issues I have with this system is that when I have no fish (I removed all of mine when one of my fish passed from a parasite, I'm not sure what so I wanted the tank to fallow) I have volatile, imbalanced nutrient levels and it gives rise to cyanobacteria. This is only temporary till I get new fish, previoussly in the 30cm cube, I was keeping upward of 15 fish and maintaining low-to zero nutrient while feeding heavily and having good coral colours.

[reefmutt]

Oh! Ok. Makes sense.. Didn't realize the fish load you like to keep..
Couldn't understand why you were using them in a system which was already nutrient poor but once you put your fish back, that won't be the case.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the pellets giving you cyano at the moment, though.

[Eastone]

Oh! Ok. Makes sense.. Didn't realize the fish load you like to keep..
Couldn't understand why you were using them in a system which was already nutrient poor but once you put your fish back, that won't be the case.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the pellets giving you cyano at the moment, though.

I'm fairly certain it is, my DIY reactor also malfunctioned, meaning the pellets were under an extremely high flow for a few weeks as the cyano started, and I reflexively stopped feeding instead of feeding more. I need to get back into the habit of feeding the corals more to compensate.

I really enjoy a heavy fish load, but I'm tempted with this tank to just get a single larger-juvenile angel like a regal or majestic and feed it heavily, allowing me to let it grow while I go through my upgrade cycles every 6 months. I'm still on the fence between that or a heavy load of gobies and more cryptic fish and going for the natural bustling reef look

[sahin]

Where do you get your corals from BTW, I go to Great Portland Street but you've got some amazingly colorful pieces that I'd not seen there.

I collected most of my SPS driving up and down the country visiting other reefkeepers. Some pieces came from various ebay outlets that were present at one time or other.

ADC is nice for starter SPS and sometimes have very nice stuff...but lately the stock hasnt been all that nice; lots of weedy stuff like monti digitata/hysterix and some half decent acros. But overall a decent place.

[Eastone]

I collected most of my SPS driving up and down the country visiting other reefkeepers. Some pieces came from various ebay outlets that were present at one time or other.

ADC is nice for starter SPS and sometimes have very nice stuff...but lately the stock hasnt been all that nice; lots of weedy stuff like monti digitata/hysterix and some half decent acros. But overall a decent place.

I find with ADC in order to get any of the decent corals, you have to arrive on shipping day. They get some awesome corals from Tonga or have been recently anyway, and these make for some good frags that they sell rather cheap.

In other news, I think my cyano issue arises from phosphate, I've seen a 20% drop in growth and I assume this is down to me cutting down dosing aminos as often with my new job, meaning nitrogen limitation. I've dosed the tank with about 3ml (5ppm) of KNO3 so hopefully that should help.

[Chrisrush]

You mentioned you dose creatine monohydrate. First time I have heard of this. What is the theory behind it? You want your SPS to be bulky and full of water like I was in the 90s? :)

[nyxx]

Awesome stuff. Mangroves are super cool!

[CamBarr]

this is a rad little tank!

[Eastone]

You mentioned you dose creatine monohydrate. First time I have heard of this. What is the theory behind it? You want your SPS to be bulky and full of water like I was in the 90s? :)

Yes! I also want them to wear wifebeaters but I'm having trouble getting the right size in. I actually have no concrete knowledge about the mechanism of action, only theories, but what feeding achieves is a noticeable explosion in amount and volume of filter feeders, which result in improvements in water quality.


Awesome stuff. Mangroves are super cool!

I absolutely love them! Having grown the largest one from a tiny seed-pod over the last two and a half years feels like one hell of an achievement

this is a rad little tank!

Thanks!


Unfortunately the spike in PO4 recently has meant that I have lost two corals due to bleaching. One of the aquaforest food supplements contains amounts of copper and I didn't manage to stop dosing in time to prevent stress. I only noticed it was a PO4 issue after I had enough water test data to notice a decline in growth (I don't test for nutrients in my tank)

I believe it was from switching out my skimmer and biopellet reactor on the same day and subsequent dial in period meaning the pellets weren't fluidised optimally along with the skimmer barely skimming for a few days.
It hurts more because both corals had been grown from frags in my original 1 gallon reef.

[joshky]

Ouch, sorry for your loss. Nanos are so hard to keep stable, I do not envy you because of that. Great looking tank though, I've always wanted to try a few mangroves. :)

[Eastone]

Yeah, the issue isn't so much the stability but once the fine tether that holds everything together snaps, everything goes south really fast, especially with SPS

Unfortunately, this week has seen a total crash on the tank, I suspect it may be from organics and the skimmer needing time to break in, but all of my SPS bleached and STN'd over about 3 days. I had the 'dry' look I've seen Leonardo mention before, I think this is a full expulsion of zooxanthellae coupled with the coral trying to consume it's polyp tissue to survive, I wasn't able to bring any back.

I managed to save a few which I traded to my LFS. It's sickening, some of them I've grown from the tiny 1.5 gallon reef over the last year into the mini colonies, and I've finally been able to get good coloration and growth consistently with this upgrade. I believe the increase in organics and reduced nutrient removal coupled with the copper in the Aquaforest food system I use pushed them over the edge.

I was tempted to quit, but I'm using this opportunity to start fresh, when I started my tank back a year ago, I wanted to have a patch reef-esq natural looking display with many little rocks proturding from a varied sandbed and some nice gorgonians. I feel that I got too entrenched in keeping SPS and wasn't able to keep my vision, so I'm going to move toward a far more even spread of LPS/ SPS / Soft Coral as the tank moves forward.

I'm excited for possibilities, but still heartbroken

[Aquaforest]

Unfortunately the spike in PO4 recently has meant that I have lost two corals due to bleaching. One of the aquaforest food supplements contains amounts of copper and I didn't manage to stop dosing in time to prevent stress. I only noticed it was a PO4 issue after I had enough water test data to notice a decline in growth (I don't test for nutrients in my tank)

I believe it was from switching out my skimmer and biopellet reactor on the same day and subsequent dial in period meaning the pellets weren't fluidised optimally along with the skimmer barely skimming for a few days.
It hurts more because both corals had been grown from frags in my original 1 gallon reef.
Hello,
This product contains copper in very safe quantity. Normal dose could not kill any corals...

Aquaforest

[Eastone]

Hello,
This product contains copper in very safe quantity. Normal dose could not kill any corals...

Aquaforest

Yeah, I don't think your product did anything negative at all, I think the stress of my skimmer not functioning while dosing a trace-copper product to already extremely stressed corals just sped the crash. I still use your full food system :D

[moga]

Nice.. one of the best mangrove tank I've seen~

[vinhle00]

Neat looking reef, sorry for your loss.

[thepotoo]

Great tank, nice to see something different and more natural!

You mentioned the size of the mangrove roots, and upgrading tanks. My understanding was that mangroves would die if you so much as looked at their roots wrong - how do you transplant them? Do you do anything special to protect the roots?

[Eastone]

Nice.. one of the best mangrove tank I've seen~

Thanks!
Hopefully the coming iteration will be even better

Neat looking reef, sorry for your loss.

Thanks!
Nothing like a devastating tank crash to bring new appreciation for the things that survived, I guess.

Great tank, nice to see something different and more natural!

You mentioned the size of the mangrove roots, and upgrading tanks. My understanding was that mangroves would die if you so much as looked at their roots wrong - how do you transplant them? Do you do anything special to protect the roots?

Not really, all I did when moving them was pull at the base of the trunk - where the roots start - after draining the tank. When you do this, the roots move as one and you can see where the root mass ends, then I just dug my hands underneath this area gently and lifted them out as one mass of sand and root and whatever-else and placed it into the new tank. I didn't cover it with sand, I just left them to root further.

I had a few leaves drop from what little damage happened on the largest tree, but a few extra fresh-water sprayings and they pulled through fine.

[ReefWreak]

Sorry to hear about the tank crash. I love the mangrove tank though, I've always loved more natural beach-ey looking tanks.

How were you able to keep your sand at an angle like that? I've mulled it over with some friends and we always thought about doing ramping grades of glass or plastic partitions at the height you want the sand to stay, but I just couldn't imagine with the flow from good powerheads the sand staying at an angle like that. Or it's all just spray foam with sand glued over it :p

Care to share your secret?

[Eastone]

Submerged rock! The bit of liverock you can see is actually about half of the actual rock, you can use a staggered formation to create a pseudo-retaining wall that looks natural. Another thing, is to use really fine sand, it falls less because the sandbed will have a greater natural angle of slope, and a finer sand will compress and compact itself more, 'cementing' itself in place with time due to natural settlement and the nature of voids in soils.

I use a mix of almost dust-like sand with a 0.1-0.25mm gradient, along with a 0.5-1mm sand. This allows for the sandbed to behave in a way similar to a carbon steel and maintain it's shape. If you use rocks to retain the sandbed, the ideal is to have the sand that's not got a rock infront of it to form a zig-zag shape between rocks, this ensures that the net force downward is resisted by a series of rocks and not just the one rock, and as sand starts to slip down the slope, it will eventually compress against the next rock down in the arrangement.

I use a standing wave in this tank so I think it might help maintain the sandbed with the rocking motion, if it works as I theorise it should compact the sand more with the motion from the water body

[ReefWreak]

I love it. I wish there were pics, I'd love to see how to build that. Thanks for sharing, I'll keep having to play with it in my mind though.

[Eastone]

I'll draw it tomorrow

[Eastone]

Apparently I forgot to draw it! It's been a while, I've finally gotten the tank to the point that it grows SPS well again, so I can post here authentically again, too!

http://i.imgur.com/VEz742il.jpg

[coral102]

very natural and cool looking!!!

BTW, I am also the big fan of Mangroves. :)

[ReefWreak]

Kinda hard to see in the picture, but I do love the look of the tank. Thanks for posting the picture!

[sde1500]

The only issues I have with this system is that when I have no fish (I removed all of mine when one of my fish passed from a parasite, I'm not sure what so I wanted the tank to fallow) I have volatile, imbalanced nutrient levels and it gives rise to cyanobacteria. This is only temporary till I get new fish, previoussly in the 30cm cube, I was keeping upward of 15 fish and maintaining low-to zero nutrient while feeding heavily and having good coral colours.

Woah, what? 15 fish at the same time in that tank? What kind of fish?

Awesome looking tank, just caught off guard by the fish number.

[FloformAustria]

awesome tank!!!! love mangroves!!!

Thanks for sharing!!

Flo

[reefmutt]

Yeah, I love this cool little tank!
Any more photos?

[Eastone]

very natural and cool looking!!!

BTW, I am also the big fan of Mangroves. :)

Thanks! I've tried really hard to make it as natural and not just filled with bright corals!

Kinda hard to see in the picture, but I do love the look of the tank. Thanks for posting the picture!

I'll get some more photos up, I didn't think it would be well received here because I only have 3 sps pieces now. I'll get some daytime photos today!

Woah, what? 15 fish at the same time in that tank? What kind of fish?

Awesome looking tank, just caught off guard by the fish number.

That was when I had the cube I think, they were 9 damsels, all chrysiptera, with a lemon peel angel and 5 small gobies I think. I had huge amounts of filtration then (still do, running a Vertex Omega 150 now)

awesome tank!!!! love mangroves!!!

Thanks for sharing!!

Flo

Thanks! The mangroves are my pride and joy! They're just over 2 years old.

Yeah, I love this cool little tank!
Any more photos?

I'll get some more up when the lights are hitting sunlight. I didn't think it would get much interest here in the SPS section!

[Eastone]

Apologies, the leather corals are both sheding at the moment because I added the extra pump just above them both, to accommodate the SPS in the tank.

http://i.imgur.com/0aktLqA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5AiRHAq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PAjdg8O.jpg

[reefmutt]

Now we're talking!
Nice!
How tall are those mangroves and how far off the water are the radions?
Obviously, the mangroves look huge but they can't be..

[zoasguy]

What a gorgeous tank

[saltwater sam]

Great tank, I love your mangroves! I have a mangrove-centered tank as well, you might like my thread over in the marine plants subforum!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2401567&page=17

[Eastone]

I'll have a look!

I got featured as nano-reef's TOTM and have done a good write up over there if anyone wants a breakdown of the tank, also, new images!

[center]
http://i.imgur.com/iU0R2nil.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MyX94Hml.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F2OSgPel.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yUVbhGMl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GyXBxJ3l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0oJjJJVl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uifUkCJl.jpg
(this one shows the color really well)