PDA

View Full Version : Tank/Fish Moving Nightmare


Sapelo
11/05/2015, 04:57 AM
I am not the mover of this tank, but I did provide support and suggestions so now that things have gone wrong, I would appreciate any advice or thoughts on how things went quite so badly wrong so that I will not repeat the same disasters in the future.
I personally have moved two established tanks, a 90 and a 300, and have never lost a fish. That's not what happened this time.

The tank in question is a 6 month established 55 gallon. It needed to be moved 2 hours from one house to another. I advised the owner to set up a QT tank in the new house, to match salinity, PH and temp to the DT, and to place all fish into the QT tank upon arrival until the DT could be thoroughly established. The owner decided to replace the sand bed as well.

The tank inhabitants were: scooter blenny, damsel, gramma, yellow tang, a bonded pair of firefish, and one ocellaris clown plus various CUC members.

The QT tank was a 20 gallon, established 48 hours prior to move with a simple HOB filter and heater. PVC pieces were provided for hiding.

For the move, all fish were caught and transported in a large plastic container with a bubbler running constantly.
Catching the fish was reported to be no more difficult than expected since the tank was drained for the move.
Most of the old sand was removed at this time.

Upon arrival at the new location, the fish were temp acclimated to the QT and placed inside. The old DT was set up using new sand and 1/2 old water, 1/2 fresh water. The rock work was replaced in the tank and the tank was left running.

The following morning, I was contacted because one of the fish, the damsel, was in distress and having difficulty breathing. We discussed temp (78), ph (8.4) and any other factors but the owner could think of none. He wanted to add some rock to the QT for more hiding places and this was done.
Later in the day, more of the fish seemed to be showing signs of distress and a bubbler was added in addition to the HOB filter.

On day two, many of the fish appeared to be dying. It was at this time that I learned the tank had been covered in sheets due to a lot of ambient lighting that the owner felt would disturb the fish.
I advised that the coverings be immediately removed and that a fan be used in the room to circulate air. My thinking was/is that trapped gases under the coverings were causing the fish distress.
The owner felt that all of this was caused by the QT. He suggested that the QT was of cheap quality and that either it or the PVC (both of which were washed in RO water prior to use) were the cause of the fish distress.

Eventually he moved all of the fish to the DT. The losses were dramatic. Of the original 7 fish, only three survived: clown, tang, gramma.
The owner has used this as proof of toxin contamination since the larger fish were the ones to survive the QT.

I am at a loss. Honestly I am the one who said get a QT, don't put fish back into the DT for several weeks, wait for a cycle.
I will be the first to admit that I am on my second reef tank, two years into this hobby and there is a lot (A LOT) that I don't know. Still, I believe in QT tanks and their usefulness in a variety of situations.
It's hard for me to believe that in 24 hours there was a spike in a 20 gallon big enough to kill 4 fish. My mind still goes back to covering the tank but I'm just not sure.

Any thoughts, suggestions or insights would be appreciated. I would hate to see this series of events ever repeated again.

srope
11/05/2015, 05:22 AM
The QT was/is a great idea. The tank being set up with which water? Do you know what temp swings where if any?
Sounds like you gave suggestions I would have myself.

Marchillo
11/05/2015, 05:25 AM
That's a lot of fish in a 20g qt with very little gas exchange. Why a bubbler and not a couple of cheap power heads? Also an ammonia badge and plenty of prepared sw for water changes. Also some prime on hand.

heathlindner25
11/05/2015, 05:42 AM
The tank should have been moved, rocks and fish in buckets or whatever will hold them and then resembled with new sand. I hate seeing fish go in uncycled systems...
Why do we tell everyone that sets up a tank to wait until it cycles but it's perfectly fine to do it in qt?

Sapelo
11/05/2015, 06:22 AM
Let's see....

The QT tank was set up with freshly mixed RO/DI water. The DT was a mixture of "old" mixed water from the previous setup and new mixed water. I honestly cannot answer about temp swings. We discussed making sure the moving bucket temp was the same temp as the QT before adding the fish, but I don't know if that temp had to be raised before the transfer was completed.

I suggested adding an ammonia badge and Prime but I have a hard time telling myself that an ammonia spike caused fish deaths 30 hours in. You are right that powerheads would have been a better idea, I didn't think of that. I think the bubbler was just leftover from the transport so it was put into play.

As for just putting the fish back into the DT...I guess that's part of my question here.
In my mind, the QT allows for water changes to prevent cycling (or at least major cycling) while the DT comes back online. Especially with the new sand, I was thinking that a couple of weeks wait would be better. I can absolutely be wrong here, that's why I'm asking.

Thanks everyone for the input!

Clownfish Chris
11/05/2015, 11:35 AM
I am going to guess it was either Temp or Ammonia. Warmer temperatures means less dissolved oxygen which means sufficing fish. Ammonia can kill either immediately or days after poisoning.

danil
11/05/2015, 11:52 AM
I hear you...
I've moved three times and my first move was tough. After that I just sell my tank before due date and start from scratch at new place. I've done it twice and will do it again. No more moves with tank for me!

sbash
11/05/2015, 11:59 AM
I am going to guess it was either Temp or Ammonia. Warmer temperatures means less dissolved oxygen which means sufficing fish. Ammonia can kill either immediately or days after poisoning.

+1, 20G is a small QT for more than a couple small fish...

We discussed temp (78), ph (8.4) and any other factors

What other factors were discussed? Did he do some basic water tests, ammonia, nitrite, etc?

He suggested that the QT was of cheap quality and that either it or the PVC (both of which were washed in RO water prior to use) were the cause of the fish distress.

I am not sure how a QT can be cheap, they are pretty basic. You could probably use plastic bins as QT if you really needed to. I moved my year old 65G back in July, it was only a half hour drive, but my fish were in a 25 gallon tote with tank water for about 6 hours, then I added a bubbler and a heater (it was pretty late at night at this point) for the last two hours while I waited for the dust from the new sand to settle. Once the water was clear and the temperature was the same, I just put the fish back in. Granted, I saved 75% of the water and everything except the sand, so I did not have to worry about a the denitrifying bacteria re-establishing. I could see the QT being useful in this situation if all the water was changed (maybe).

However, I checked the water chemistry twice a day for the first week, then once a day the following week (or at least that was my goal, I probably missed a test here and there). For the eight minutes it takes to do a bunch of waters tests, it saves lives and helps avoid mistakes in the future...

Toddrtrex
11/05/2015, 12:31 PM
The bacteria was on/in the sand and the rocks. Reusing the water would do little or nothing for that. Odds are there was a huge ammonia spike with no bacteria to consume all that ammonia.

There was no way there would be enough (( if any )) denitrifying bacteria in that QT. Should have used some of the existing rock/sand for that -- the water doesn't matter.

Sk8r
11/06/2015, 11:59 PM
YOu were right about the qt. draping the tanks may have slowed down gas exchange and made any oxygen shortage worse. I'd bet on oxygen issues. If there was no skimmer on that qt, even more so, because the skimmer is a major source of oxygen, right along with a hard, bubbly downflow driven by a good pump Limp circulation isn't enough.

OrQidz
11/07/2015, 12:09 AM
That's a lot of fish in a 20 gallon, with a tang and a damsel, etc, maybe there was aggression causing additional stress. That on top of inadequate filtration and gas exchange could have all been a factor.

Sapelo
11/07/2015, 09:37 AM
Thanks everyone.
Now that this is happened I'm really trying to use it as a learning experience for myself.
I suspected gas exchange issue (no, there was no skimmer, just a HOB and later a bubbler added). I hate to see bad things happen and really hope I can offer better advice in the future.

hogfanreefer
11/07/2015, 12:53 PM
Poor oxygenation and ammonia I would bet. 30 hours is plenty of time for ammonia to build up with that many fish in an uncycled 20 gallon.