Give me the skinny about sea stars and reef

[BlackTip]

I would like to add diversity to my cleanup crew. I have snails and hermit crabs. I would like to add Brittle and/or Serpent sea stars. I did a lot of searching, and the information are all over the place. Some recommend them, and some don't.

My LFS has Green Brittle sea stars in over crowded small tanks along with corals, anemenies, small fishes, and shrimps. He is very experienced owner and knows what he is doing. Most online posts warns about the green varieties, however.

What is the deal? What is, if any, reef safe?

[Xxero]

I don't have any personal experience with the Brittle Sea Stars, but I do have a Serpent Sea Star that I enjoy. It stays hidden most of the time when the lights are on, but when it does come out, it's a sight to see. They're really good at getting into the little nooks and crannies found in your live rock, and I have never seen it bother a thing.

[figuerres]

Like most of the things in the sea size is a big part of the picture.
if the animal can get large and if it eats meat then it can become a problem.
that's not a 100% thing but a general rule.
take crabs for example - true crabs not porcelain crabs...
when small they will pick at algae and not be much of a problem, as they get larger they can move rocks and start to feed on some corals and snails, when they really get big they can grab a fish and eat it outright.

some stars are the same way....

some shrimp also....

and some fishes, and so on....

everything in the sea will eat something else, just depends on size and defense the food item has - spines, bad taste and such.

[shred5]

Brittle stars and Serpant stars is a real generalization because there are lots of different ones. The common green serpent gets big and is known to be able to catch critters in your tank and sometimes even fish.

Brittle starts the little tiny ones are great cleanup crew. But I have a red brittle star in my sump for like 10 years now because he got big and was eating things he should not like my cleaner shrimp.

[BlackTip]

When you guys say big or small, what exactly we talking about?
The varieties available from LiveAquaria are list from 10" to 15". Are those consider small or large?

[cloak]

Here's just some general information about sea stars.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/ac/feature/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rs/index.php

HTH.

[Bent]

I have a monster serpent star and have no problems with him. He hangs out under his rock, I feed him shrimps and junk, he grabs it. Pretty fun.

[BlackTip]

I have a monster serpent star and have no problems with him. He hangs out under his rock, I feed him shrimps and junk, he grabs it. Pretty fun.

I am interested in sea stars for cleanup. If I feed them, what good are they?

[Bent]

I got news for you bud, clean up crews aren't much good anyway.

Whatever eats still has to poop.

[BlackTip]

I got news for you bud, clean up crews aren't much good anyway.

Whatever eats still has to poop.

This is just gross simplification.

[Bent]

This is just gross simplification.

But it's true. Any animal is simply going to add to a detritus issue, not help it. No animals digestive system is 100% efficient.

The best cuc is you with a siphon.

[cloak]

I am interested in sea stars for cleanup. If I feed them, what good are they?

Couldn't you just feed smaller portions at a time? In all honesty, there really shouldn't be any food hitting the ground anyways. Your kind of at fault here. If you don't want to do the manual labor though, relying on a starfish or an army of them is not really going to solve your problems IMO. GL.

[soulpatch]

I got news for you bud, clean up crews aren't much good anyway.

Whatever eats still has to poop.

Unless he gets female cuc. Females don't poop.... That is my story and I am sticking to it. That or my wife is great at hide and go poop....:lolspin:

[Bent]

Unless he gets female cuc. Females don't poop.... That is my story and I am sticking to it. That or my wife is great at hide and go poop....:lolspin:

Bwahahahaha!

[BlackTip]

Couldn't you just feed smaller portions at a time? In all honesty, there really shouldn't be any food hitting the ground anyways. Your kind of at fault here. If you don't want to do the manual labor though, relying on a starfish or an army of them is not really going to solve your problems IMO. GL.

At fault of what exactly?
You know nothing about my husbandry practice. This thread is not about husbandry nor about feeding. Read the first post.

[cloak]

I am interested in sea stars for cleanup. If I feed them, what good are they?

What exactly are you trying to clean up hot shot? Maybe you should reread my posts...

[Bent]

At fault of what exactly?
You know nothing about my husbandry practice. This thread is not about husbandry nor about feeding. Read the first post.

I believe he was just making a statement of principle and not accusing.

[BlackTip]

Your kind of at fault here. If you don't want to do the manual labor though, relying on a starfish or an army of them is not really going to solve your problems IMO. GL.

Read your own. I am not interested in quibbling. If you have something positive to contribute and related to the topic, do so.

[cloak]

Didn't I though? I already provided you with two links regarding starfish in general and then you stated that your interested in sea stars for clean up purposes. Wouldn't overfeeding be one of many causes of this? C'mon man, get a clue...

[AWD]

@balktip. I believe rather than asking others to re-read your original question maybe you should. You've got a snappy attitude and jumping on those who have taken the time to offer help and suggestions. If you read a comment that doesn't fit what you are looking for then move on.

[BlackTip]

Didn't I though? I already provided you with two links regarding starfish in general and then stated that your interested in sea stars for clean up purposes. Wouldn't overfeeding be one of many causes of this? (your fault) C'mon man, get a clue...

I have already read the links your provided. As I mentioned in the first post, I did research and reading first. That include books, articles, and blogs. Randy specifically said in "general". I was looking for first hand experience.

Back to your unfounded assumptions: So, you assume if someone is looking to add a sea stars as part of cleanup crew, then this person must be overfeeding, lazy, and looking for critters to do his job. Seriously dude?
Who does not at one point or another have extra food in the tank? Do you assume that every bit of food gets eaten? I think you are the one who should get a clue. Again, not interested in quibbling or rhetoric.

[cloak]

lol, your funny. I'll leave you and your delicate psyche alone now. Good luck with finding a janitor for your tank. :)

[tonysi]

First hand experience I had with a large green brittle star I had is that he grabbed a small fish in my tank because he wasn't finding enough food on the bottom. Feed him his own food every time I feed the fish-now he is happy so far, not grabbing any other fish.post #3 figuerres says it best when small not so much a problem when they get bigger keep an eye on them

[Xxero]

Wow, this got weird. :hmm4:

I think everyone has valid points here:

* BalkTip's post came across as wanting to add some diversity to his clean-up crew with the possible addition of Sea Stars. He has read conflicting information about whether they are reef safe or not, so he was asking for some personal insight.

* BalkTip, you asked if you feed them, then what good are they? When it comes to Sea Stars, if you don't supplement feed them with small chunks of shrimp, squid, etc. then they will go after your tank inhabitants. As they grow, so do their stomachs and appetites, and they will eventually try to eat your livestock.

* Cloak was simply trying to provide some additional general information about Sea Stars that you may not have read already. You stated that your interest in Sea Stars was for clean-up purposes, which means to clean-up excess food in your DT. Sea Stars will do that, but you will also need to supplement feed them with little meaty bits 2-3 times a week. They cannot live off of the occasional scrap they find tucked away in a crevice. They will starve and die.

* So, if you would like to have Sea Stars as part of your clean-up crew, then awesome! Just know that as they grow there is a chance that they can turn on your tank inhabitants. Also know that this risk is greatly reduced if you supplement their feeding.

* If you do not wish to bother at this point, then you might do as Cloak suggested and simply cut back on feeding to eliminate the need for a CUC to begin with.

GL! :bigeyes:

[karimwassef]

If you have a system where you can feed liberally because you've implemented sufficient export mechanisms and flow that it doesn't turn into a mess, then you can keep most omnivores. Specialty feeders - not so much.

I keep large starfish, crabs and shrimp with my corals and small fish. Could they eat them? yes... do they eat them? no. They have a lot to eat already that's easier and tastier.

[BlackTip]

Xxero and Karim, Thanks for the advice. That is the type of info I was looking for. I don't mind feeding them, but my concern is when I go away. I don't trust a care taker to take care of them properly.

I don't have any bio load. I just added the first few fishes 36 hours ago, and I was just planning ahead. I like to have sea stars for diversity, but I don't want them to turn into liability.

[rhdoug]

IME, avoid the green brittle stars, mine got really large, really fast. At night it would raise its body off the sand by twisting its arms into kind of a cage trap. He did catch a couple of fish by snapping down quickly when they swam under him. He was constantly trapping hermits who wandered under him. He did release the hermits but not the fish. He was very bold and an aggressive feeder, would come from the opposite side of the tank to grab a piece of krill from my fingers. Cool animal but dangerous to small fish.

The dark colored brittles have never been an issue, mine usually hides in a large coral and snags bits of food from the water column. He may roam at night, but during the day I usually just see the tips of his arms sticking out of the hammer coral.

I did keep some small greyish banded serpents very early on, I quickly took them out as they ate everything they could catch, including other starfish.

[BlackTip]

^^^ Thanks

It seems that sea stars are off the list for now.

[Shawn O]

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/word/more-drama-plz-smiley-emoticon.png

[OoooDRAGONoooo]

Hi.i have hundreds of asterinas ,little snails and a quite a few mini brittle stars.they keep the sand clean and seem to graze ont the coraline .but I think they also process the other debris ,like discarded shells from the lysmata,sexy shrimp and hermits which I could never get get to as my tank is 1 mtr deep.plus they probably process the larger pieces of **** from the tang etc.so I think clean up crew is good.plus it's something else to look at,and it makes it all look a little more ,,,,,,,natural?