I want to get my tank properly cycled as quick as I can

[BPPmichigan]

I know "quick" shouldn't be in the vocabulary of someone in this hobby. But I have a new tank, 120g, 40g refug, 120lbs of live rock. Been running for 3 weeks. I have the new kessil ap700 running. Getting a slight brown algea dusting throughout. I put 6 green chromis and a cleaning crew in there (35 hermit, 30 astrea snails, couple emrald crabs and sifting snails) and a couple little mushroom frags. Everything is living and doing well. Had ammonia and nitrates tested and I'm perfect. So here is where I need help... My local fish store recently got in a chevron tang, my favorite fish. Perfect juvi. I know it's too early to put a fish as amazing as that in my tank this early, but they were damn near giving it away for a sale price and they said it's the first time they have had one in he store in 3 years.. And before everyone slams me for wasting money, I am very aware of the risk and the deal was worth the risk In my opinion. I was able to buy the fish and they are holding it for a week for me. So I want to know what I can do to better my chances of this fish staying alive next week. Should I do my first water change? Idk if or when I should expect an ammonia spike. What percentage of water change should I do if so? Any helpful suggestions would be great and very much appreciated. Thanks.

[azcrazy]

how is your nitrates? when 0 your cycle should be done

I did the same thing i cycle my tank with fish (i almost got burn alive here) and all my fish is doing good

[Dkuhlmann]

If your tank was still cycling you shouldn't have anything alive in it. You've way over loaded it with fish and CUC, the bacteria hasn't finished growing and you are overloading it with waste from all that you put in. :hammer:

Sadly you are going to have HUGE problems if not soon, in the not too distant future. I feel bad for the live critters in your tank. :(

[azcrazy]

If your tank was still cycling you shouldn't have anything alive in it. You've way over loaded it with fish and CUC, the bacteria hasn't finished growing and you are overloading it with waste from all that you put in. :hammer:

Sadly you are going to have HUGE problems if not soon, in the not too distant future. I feel bad for the live critters in your tank. :(

Agreed hope his cycle is done and he doesn't make the same mistake I did

[BPPmichigan]

If your tank was still cycling you shouldn't have anything alive in it. You've way over loaded it with fish and CUC, the bacteria hasn't finished growing and you are overloading it with waste from all that you put in. :hammer:

Sadly you are going to have HUGE problems if not soon, in the not too distant future. I feel bad for the live critters in your tank. :(

Why do you feel like I will have such huge problems? I don't feel like 6 small chromis and a cleaning crew is a lot nor is it enough to throw my tank off. Why do you think I'm overloading the tank? I'm assuming you feel that the fish and inverts will create too much waste. If so, wouldn't a water change help?

[Clownfish Chris]

how is your nitrates? when 0 your cycle should be done

I did the same thing i cycle my tank with fish (i almost got burn alive here) and all my fish is doing good

This is incorrect. When you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites with a detectable amount of nitrates, then your initial cycle is complete and it is time to add a small clean up crew. Your tank will go through a mini cycle again. To address nitrates, you have to remove it from the tank via nutrient export. This means skimming, macro algae, and water changes.

[CStrickland]

Had ammonia and nitrates tested and I'm perfect.
do you mean all 3 were zero?
do you not have your own water tests?

It sounds like your minds made up to get it. I'd deff plan to supplement some nori at the very least.

The poop from one tang is going to be way dirtier than a few chromis, you'll need to stay on water quality

[oldbones]

Heck, just go buy the Tang and throw him in there with your shoal of Chromis. That way, they can all get ich together!!!

[seamonster124]

I use this hobby to practice patience. Use the hobby to learn to say no to the desire to own that fish. Then apply ur new skill to other parts of ur life. Then come thank me :)

[azcrazy]

This is incorrect. When you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites with a detectable amount of nitrates, then your initial cycle is complete and it is time to add a small clean up crew. Your tank will go through a mini cycle again. To address nitrates, you have to remove it from the tank via nutrient export. This means skimming, macro algae, and water changes.

If you read he said the ammonia was 0 and nitrites were 0 so it only need it nitrate to be 0 then cycle is done.

Edit
he said it was tested never said 0 on ammonia or nitrites, my bad

[Dkuhlmann]

Heck, just go buy the Tang and throw him in there with your shoal of Chromis. That way, they can all get ich together!!!

I think you should go back and reread the original post. :rolleyes:

[gone fishin]

IMO to give the tang optimum chances you should do TTM on the tang for ich then place in observation for 4-5 weeks. This would benefit the tang and at the same time help your DT to stabilize a bit longer.

If you decide not to QT then WC's are your friend. Good luck just my two cents.

[Fish Keeper82]

The brown algae dust you are seeing are more than likely diatoms signaling the beginning of the end of the cycle. That means with your ammonia input that you currently have from the fish in the tank, you are just nearing the end of cycling. But with that said, that means your system can sustain your current tank creatures. Adding a tang this soon will almost certainly cause a serious ammonia spike and problems. Its likely that tang will polute the tank more than all those chromis combined.

Damsels were used in the past for cycling for being hardy to ammonia.
i would think adding the tang will cause the demise of that tang since it will not tolerate the ammonia spike but your chromis will likely be ok.

I would not add it for a month or so my self.

That's strictly the chemistry answer. Quarantine the tang is another matter since tanks are very susceptible to ich. The best thing you could do is get a quarantine tank for the tang and after it goes though a good month to 2 months of quarantine your biological bacteria in the tank should be ready for it.
People on here are passionate about not adding things too quickly since we've seen many posts about things going wrong along with our own mistakes when we started.

Good Luck

[Shawn O]

and a cleaning crew in there (35 hermit, 30 astrea snails, couple emrald crabs and sifting snails)

Even for a 120 gallon that CUC seems large. Even the small hermits will reach around 1" each. Put 35 1" balls in the tank and see how much area they will take up. Those 35 hermits and 30 or so snails do not likely have enough to eat in that tank. ... just my $.02

[oldbones]

I think you should go back and reread the original post. :rolleyes:

I read the OP just fine. My point was that adding a pile of fish, including a Tang, to a questionably cycled tank with no QT sounds like a textbook recipe for an ich'ed up Tang.

[Dkuhlmann]

I read the OP just fine. My point was that adding a pile of fish, including a Tang, to a questionably cycled tank with no QT sounds like a textbook recipe for an ich'ed up Tang.

I was referring to you saying just go buy the tang when it was mentioned in the OP that he already had purchased it, that's all

[Caurimare]

I know "quick" shouldn't be in the vocabulary of someone in this hobby. But I have a new tank, 120g, 40g refug, 120lbs of live rock. Been running for 3 weeks. I have the new kessil ap700 running. Getting a slight brown algea dusting throughout. I put 6 green chromis and a cleaning crew in there (35 hermit, 30 astrea snails, couple emrald crabs and sifting snails) and a couple little mushroom frags. Everything is living and doing well. Had ammonia and nitrates tested and I'm perfect. So here is where I need help... My local fish store recently got in a chevron tang, my favorite fish. Perfect juvi. I know it's too early to put a fish as amazing as that in my tank this early, but they were damn near giving it away for a sale price and they said it's the first time they have had one in he store in 3 years.. And before everyone slams me for wasting money, I am very aware of the risk and the deal was worth the risk In my opinion. I was able to buy the fish and they are holding it for a week for me. So I want to know what I can do to better my chances of this fish staying alive next week. Should I do my first water change? Idk if or when I should expect an ammonia spike. What percentage of water change should I do if so? Any helpful suggestions would be great and very much appreciated. Thanks.

I would personally wait a little longer, chevron tangs are not hard to find at least in my part of town and you can always buy them online, but since you are pretty set on it I would buy a bottle of Fritz zyme turbo start and pour half of it one day and the other half the next day, after that add the tang, from what I gather you are not doing any quarantine so just add it to the DT.

[oldbones]

I was referring to you saying just go buy the tang when it was mentioned in the OP that he already had purchased it, that's all

Got it, you are correct!

[BPPmichigan]

I would personally wait a little longer, chevron tangs are not hard to find at least in my part of town and you can always buy them online, but since you are pretty set on it I would buy a bottle of Fritz zyme turbo start and pour half of it one day and the other half the next day, after that add the tang, from what I gather you are not doing any quarantine so just add it to the DT.

Thank you very much for a helpful solution suggestion. Everyone's input is great, even the negative stuff. Overall I took a risk, I know it wasn't very smart. Chevrons are not easy to come by and juvis online run $250 or more. I was able to get this fish for $100. I hate gambling with an animal but for that price it's worth it if he can stay alive. I have been in the hobby(despite a break while I was in grad school) so I know that here aren't any definites in this hobby. There's no guarantee it will get ich or die. Every tank is uniqueI just want do what I can to keep The fish alive. I never want a fish/coral/invert to die but in this hobby it's inevitable that you will have some loss. It's just making an effort to manage the risk, which I'm not doing a great job in this instance but it is unique and will NOT be something I do regularly.

[Mark9]

Late to the party and didn't read everything, but if you want to speed up the cycle, put a bottle of bio-spira in the tank, it works.
And if you push the tank too hard and get a bloom, use UV to clear it.
gl

[Caurimare]

Thank you very much for a helpful solution suggestion. Everyone's input is great, even the negative stuff. Overall I took a risk, I know it wasn't very smart. Chevrons are not easy to come by and juvis online run $250 or more. I was able to get this fish for $100. I hate gambling with an animal but for that price it's worth it if he can stay alive. I have been in the hobby(despite a break while I was in grad school) so I know that here aren't any definites in this hobby. There's no guarantee it will get ich or die. Every tank is uniqueI just want do what I can to keep The fish alive. I never want a fish/coral/invert to die but in this hobby it's inevitable that you will have some loss. It's just making an effort to manage the risk, which I'm not doing a great job in this instance but it is unique and will NOT be something I do regularly.

you will be ok people tend to overthink it ..... honestly just use the bacteria I personaly like turbo start and you should be ok.

[Sk8r]

My advice, belated, is now that you've done it,is keep that water fanatically stable (I keep pretty fair parameters in my sig line for convenience) and do NOT add any other fish for 72 days. With good luck, you have a healthy fish, and 72 days of stability in good parameters will give you a good start. After this, qt everything, because you need to protect that fish from some other bringing him a case of ich.

[stingeragent]

If you read he said the ammonia was 0 and nitrites were 0 so it only need it nitrate to be 0 then cycle is done.

Edit
he said it was tested never said 0 on ammonia or nitrites, my bad

This is incorrect , when the cycle is complete there will be nitrates. If they are 0, the cycle isn't complete. Nitrates are the byproduct of the cycle of ammonia, and nitrite.

Back on topic, OP, you have way too many CUC already. What do you expect 60 snails /hermits to eat? Diatoms isn't it. That would be a nice size clean up crew for your tank several months from now. They need some algae, detritus to feed on. Also, get your own test kits. Not sure how much you spent to set up a 125 gallon tank, but when did it not occur to you to get test kits? It is of my oppinion your tank wasn't ready. Maybe it will work out for the best, maybe it won't, but getting a sweet deal on a fish to toss into a non established tank is just dumb. If it dies in a week, your out a 100 bucks, and your prize fish is no longer swimming. Also, you clearly aren't doing a QT which is even more foolhardy. Even if your chromis didn't have ich, the tang might, and if so, all your chromis will then have it, and then you gotta pull them all and wait 72 days to the ich to be gone. Just makes no sense IMHO. Clearly too late now, but if it doesn't work out exactly as you think it will, you will at least know why and hopefully not make the same mistake in the future.

[azcrazy]

This is incorrect , when the cycle is complete there will be nitrates. If they are 0, the cycle isn't complete. Nitrates are the byproduct of the cycle of ammonia, and nitrite.



When your filtration is ready doesnt rid of nitrates?

Sorry OP last post for me here

[stingeragent]

No. Thats what water changes are for or biopellet reactors or vinegar/vodka dosing

[CStrickland]

When your filtration is ready doesnt rid of nitrates?

The bacteria can rid the tank of nitrates, but those bacteria take longer to get going if you start from scratch because they are pickier about their environment. Since nitrates don't hurt fish, it's not really necessary to wait until that part of the filtration is ready to start adding animals. Most people are able to keep the tank safe for a CUC and fish by just changing the water to keep nitrates safe. I would say anything under 40ppm is fine for the first additions to a tank. Some of the more delicate critters like anemone, urchin, and some corals are not going to be happy at that level.

This is part of why people say the cycle never really ends, and why we wait a while for the tank to "mature" to add more delicate animals. So you can be "ready" for some things, but not others yet.

[mcginnisandrew]

The bacteria can rid the tank of nitrates, but those bacteria take longer to get going if you start from scratch because they are pickier about their environment. Since nitrates don't hurt fish, it's not really necessary to wait until that part of the filtration is ready to start adding animals. Most people are able to keep the tank safe for a CUC and fish by just changing the water to keep nitrates safe. I would say anything under 40ppm is fine for the first additions to a tank. Some of the more delicate critters like anemone, urchin, and some corals are not going to be happy at that level.

This is part of why people say the cycle never really ends, and why we wait a while for the tank to "mature" to add more delicate animals. So you can be "ready" for some things, but not others yet.


Bacteria do not "rid" a tank of nitrates. They can take up nitrates (hence why carbon dosing works) but the nitrates will not be exported from the system until you remove the bacteria. Skimming, water changes, removing macroalgae, etc are all common methods of exporting nutrients such as nitrates or nitrogen containing compounds.

I agree that it is important to wait for a tank to mature (i.e. your parameters are stable and you've nailed down your husbandry routine) before adding delicate animals.

[CStrickland]

I'm honestly stunned that you guys are telling new reefers that denitrification is a myth.

So how does a dsb work if it isn't providing a low-oxygen enviro?
Also, why do bioballs and filter socks and floss and canisters raise nitrates if they aren't providing a high oxygen enviro?
Also, if the bacteria mostly populate the rocks and sand, how do they get in the skimmer?
Also, how come when I didn't have a skimmer or algae or dose carbon, my nitrates didn't outpace my 10% changes even though I fed a ton?

The concept that nitrogen is not off-gassed is a weird idea that goes against our basic understanding of tank chemistry. We rely heavily on facultative heterotrophs to manage our nitrate levels and everything from carbon dosing to live rock is based on those assumptions. I think the idea that this has all been a fantasy is interesting, and I would love to hear some empirical support for it. Though I'm not sure whether this thread is the right place for it, maybe we should chat in the reef chemistry forum?

In the meantime, here is some basic info about how tanks use nutrients: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/cj/index.php
And a quote from it:
While new aquarists are always taught the importance of nitrifying bacteria in their aquariums, in reef tanks (which tend to have excellent lighting), algal uptake of ammonia is likely happening much faster than nitrification. In situations where gaseous oxygen is depleted, nitrate often is used in lieu of oxygen as a final electron acceptor in a process called denitrification. Nitrate (NO3-) is converted to nitrite (NO2-), then to nitric oxide (NO), then to nitrous oxide (N2O -a small amount of this tends to escape), and eventually to dinitrogen gas (N2) (Davidson et al., 2000). Thus, nitrogen returns to the atmosphere and potentially can be fixed again into combined forms.

[mcginnisandrew]

My mistake i thought you were referring to aerobic bacteria! My apologies, how could i forget about denitrification.