Beananimal overflow help!

[Reefer525XL]

I have a Coast to Coast beananimal overflow in my 8ft tank. The tank has 3x 1.5" holes with 1.5" pipe. I control the full siphon with a gate valve. Once I get everything dialed in it runs flawlessly but the issue starts when the water level in the return section of my sump either goes up or down.

For example, if I float a few bags of fish or corals in my sump that cause the overall water level in the sump to raise since Im adding more volume to it. Well this also causes the level of water in my overflow box to go up. Same if the water level in the sump goes down from my ATO running out of water, the water level in the overflow box also goes down. Why is this happening.

Im using two DC12000 return pumps at about 60% intensity each, not sure if this has anything to do with it but it could, I don't know.

[chimmike]

the level of water in your sump should not affect your display tank or oveflow in any way, shape, or form.....and the non-siphon overflow is meant to handle potential subtle changes in flow....

[Reefer525XL]

the level of water in your sump should not affect your display tank or oveflow in any way, shape, or form.....and the non-siphon overflow is meant to handle potential subtle changes in flow....

I know that is the reason why I created this thread. The water level in the tank stays the same no issues there. The water level on the overflow box does go up or down depending on the water level of the sump. Yes the non-siphon drain handles the excess water but the problem is still there. Why is the water in the overflow going up? I have the full siphon dialed in a way that I only get a very small amount of water down the non-siphon drain which makes it dead silent but as soon as I float bags of fish in the sump the water level in the sump goes up, which means the water level in the overflow box goes up and more water starts to drain down the non-siphon line which gets very loud.

[chimmike]

if a drain is blocked or something, the non-siphon drain should turn into siphon if the airline gets blocked. How much do you have the siphon turned down? Is there a snail or something in the non-siphon return?

you have an airline on the non-siphon, right?

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

[Reefer525XL]

Yes I have an airline on the non-siphon, I have it placed above the non-siphon line but below the emergency line so that the non-siphon starts to suck in air right before the water reaches the airline so that I can get a headstart and fixed the problem before the water reaches the emergency line if it ever does because once the non-siphon line kicks in into full siphon the changes of the water reaching the emergency line are slim to non unless the blockage is a major one.

Regardless I don't think you are understanding my question. All the lines work as they should, the problem is not that. The problem as that the water level in the overflow box increases or decreases if the water level in the sump increases or decreases. This is not due to any sort of blockage. The drains handle the water fine when the level increases in the overflow box but it should only increase if there is a blockage not when I add more water to the sump.

[toothybugs]

How far in to the water do your drain pipes reach?

[Reefer525XL]

How far in to the water do your drain pipes reach?

The pipe is submerged 1-1/4"

[DDon]

Just setting up my first beananimal so I have no practical experience but if i had to guess what is happening it would be that as you raise the sump level you are causing a greater back pressure on your full siphon since it is now submerged farther which is decreasing the flow of the siphon. This will then cause a corresponding increase in the overflow level and increase the flow through the open pipe but not to a point that it becomes a full siphon.

[toothybugs]

Just setting up my first beananimal so I have no practical experience but if i had to guess what is happening it would be that as you raise the sump level you are causing a greater back pressure on your full siphon since it is now submerged farther which is decreasing the flow of the siphon. This will then cause a corresponding increase in the overflow level and increase the flow through the open pipe but not to a point that it becomes a full siphon.

My thought too. I recently read a thread here suggesting not much deeper than about a half inch.

Edit: Found it. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2393042

[Reefer525XL]

Just setting up my first beananimal so I have no practical experience but if i had to guess what is happening it would be that as you raise the sump level you are causing a greater back pressure on your full siphon since it is now submerged farther which is decreasing the flow of the siphon. This will then cause a corresponding increase in the overflow level and increase the flow through the open pipe but not to a point that it becomes a full siphon.

Thats a good point but I don't think that is the problem. You see the drain section is on the far left of my sump which also houses the skimmer, then the middle section is a fuge and last, the right section is the return section. The water level in the first and second chamber never change. It only changes in the return section of the sump. Sorry if I didn't mentioned that in the original post.

[DDon]

In that case, another potential cause is that when you increase the level in the return section, you are increasing the suction head on the pump. Since a centrifugal pump is basically a pressure differential device, increased suction head will result in increased discharge pressure which should increase the flow. I doubt the increase is very much at the small level deviations you are talking about, but it may contribute to what you are seeing.

[chimmike]

yes, the level in the return section changes due to evaporation, NBD.

[Reefer525XL]

In that case, another potential cause is that when you increase the level in the return section, you are increasing the suction head on the pump. Since a centrifugal pump is basically a pressure differential device, increased suction head will result in increased discharge pressure which should increase the flow. I doubt the increase is very much at the small level deviations you are talking about, but it may contribute to what you are seeing.

My first initial thought was that it was the pump and even more because my previous tank had a Syncra Silent 4.0 and I never had any issues with the level in the overflow box going up or down, it was also a coast to coast beananimal.

[chimmike]

good excuse to upgrade to a Vectra, LOL

SO's know it's BS but at least give you credit for trying.

When I was blowing money on car mods I'd use the "it's for safety" line.....
"I need 6 piston wilwoods to slow down from the huge turbo I put on.....so I can stop in time"
"I need the better engine management so as to control fueling better for economical safety"

[Reefer525XL]

good excuse to upgrade to a Vectra, LOL

SO's know it's BS but at least give you credit for trying.

When I was blowing money on car mods I'd use the "it's for safety" line.....
"I need 6 piston wilwoods to slow down from the huge turbo I put on.....so I can stop in time"
"I need the better engine management so as to control fueling better for economical safety"

lol those are some good ones :lolspin:

[Reefer525XL]

any other theories as to why Im having this problem?

[Rybren]

When I first set mine up, I had a similar problem. Over time, the water level in the overflow box would slowly lower until it was almost even with the bottom of the siphon elbow.

I solved mine by adjusting the ball valve so that it was a tad more closed.

[Chaddiusmaximus]

+1 to Rybren. To fix overflow adjust gate valve. As for the sump that is not a problem. The section with the return pump should move up and down. This is where you ATO "sensor" should be installed.