Emperor Angels - Size at Color Change?

[Itchy Trigger]

I've had a hard time finding info on this and have read some contradictory statements as well, so... Figured I'd ask here. At what size do emperor angels typically begin their color change? I've got a very chunky 6" emperor that's still showing entirely juvenile coloration/pattern. I would have expected that by this size he'd have started changing. Doesn't bother me that he hasn't changed yet, but I'm just curious as to when it might happen. For those that have kept this fish, and have experienced it changing colors, how big was the fish when this happened?

[Dkuhlmann]

I would think at that size it should be soon. Can you post a picture of it?

[alton]

The first one I had changed around 5 to 6" in 2003, the adult picture is from 2007. The last picture contains two juvies and the largest still has not changed at that size. I have had him less then a year and he was smaller than the little guy when I bought him. Todays food is so much better, than what we had years ago

[Dmorty217]

The one I had(1.5"juv) started changing at close to 4.5-5" and it took about 6-8 months for it to fully change

[Lostinthedark]

Mine started changing at about 4 inches. He was in my tank for probably 18 monthsbefore that. Im not sure if its triggered by size, age,environment or a combo of everything. It did take about a year to transition fully.

[Itchy Trigger]

Thanks everyone. Will keep an eye on him as it sounds like it should be starting soon. I'll try and snap a pic of him, but my skills with the camera (or iPhone/iPad in this case) are not too fantastic!

[viggen]

Mine was probably in the 5plus in area when the change began. I wondered for a year or two when it was going to happen then before you know it he's full adult colors.

He seems to make the jaw grunt noise more often now... Sometimes he makes the noise when going after food

[Itchy Trigger]

Mine was probably in the 5plus in area when the change began. I wondered for a year or two when it was going to happen then before you know it he's full adult colors.

He seems to make the jaw grunt noise more often now... Sometimes he makes the noise when going after food

Mine makes that grunting noise too, usually when he's showing a tank mate who the boss is. I guess it's an excitement thing. The thrill of chowing down or kicking ***. :lolspin:

[humaguy]

lol, they become total tools :mtool::mtool: as adults and need to be watched..

[pinnatus]

I have two, and the larger is quite the grunter.

Mine began changing around 5". They take ~ 6 months to change.

[McPuff]

I think that it really depends on several factors which are not mutually exclusive. I've seen color change in small individuals brought on by some type of trauma (i.e., getting its butt kicked). It's likely that the more comfortable the fish is (less stress), the longer it may take to change into adult coloration. When the environment is stable, resources are plentiful, and stress is low the animal should invest energy into itself (i.e., somatic growth). When the environment is less favorable (for whatever reason), then it will strive to reproduce sexually (i.e., germ cell growth). For large angels, this comes with that color change. Sexual development, combined with color change are metabolically expensive... so why do it if you don't "have to?" This kind of behavior can be found in freshwater fishes as well (in addition to countless other organisms). Anyway, something to think about. It seems to me that if you have a large juvenile angel, then it's probably a happy camper in your tank!

[tassod]

I just got one as well, he's probably 1.5" - 2"....i guess i should expect at least 18 months before any changes could even start from what it sounds like...

[Itchy Trigger]

I think that it really depends on several factors which are not mutually exclusive. I've seen color change in small individuals brought on by some type of trauma (i.e., getting its butt kicked). It's likely that the more comfortable the fish is (less stress), the longer it may take to change into adult coloration. When the environment is stable, resources are plentiful, and stress is low the animal should invest energy into itself (i.e., somatic growth). When the environment is less favorable (for whatever reason), then it will strive to reproduce sexually (i.e., germ cell growth). For large angels, this comes with that color change. Sexual development, combined with color change are metabolically expensive... so why do it if you don't "have to?" This kind of behavior can be found in freshwater fishes as well (in addition to countless other organisms). Anyway, something to think about. It seems to me that if you have a large juvenile angel, then it's probably a happy camper in your tank!

This makes a lot of sense! Thank you.

[pinnatus]

Monthly shots of mine's transition
Transitioning
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/P6040775_zpsa9888d93.jpg
(http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/P6040775_zpsa9888d93.jpg.html)http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/P7050799_zps25c53850.jpg
(http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/P7050799_zps25c53850.jpg.html)http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/P8090006_zps4ba2898d.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/P8090006_zps4ba2898d.jpg.html)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/PA270034_zps3890b75c.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/PA270034_zps3890b75c.jpg.html)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/PA270051_zps8a2c9750.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/PA270051_zps8a2c9750.jpg.html)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/garrettjrkp/Fish/P8160100_zpsd2e0e5de.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/garrettjrkp/media/Fish/P8160100_zpsd2e0e5de.jpg.html)

[pinnatus]

I think that it really depends on several factors which are not mutually exclusive. I've seen color change in small individuals brought on by some type of trauma (i.e., getting its butt kicked). It's likely that the more comfortable the fish is (less stress), the longer it may take to change into adult coloration. When the environment is stable, resources are plentiful, and stress is low the animal should invest energy into itself (i.e., somatic growth). When the environment is less favorable (for whatever reason), then it will strive to reproduce sexually (i.e., germ cell growth). For large angels, this comes with that color change. Sexual development, combined with color change are metabolically expensive... so why do it if you don't "have to?" This kind of behavior can be found in freshwater fishes as well (in addition to countless other organisms). Anyway, something to think about. It seems to me that if you have a large juvenile angel, then it's probably a happy camper in your tank!

Another observation -

I got a second larger juvenile that was showing signs of transition, put it in with my established and smaller juvenile. It seemed that the larger one's transition actually regressed for a while (the beginnings of the color change actually got less), then moved forward again.

[Itchy Trigger]

Great photo record of the gradual change, Ken!

[McPuff]

Great photo record of the gradual change, Ken!

Agreed! I like that a lot!

[Lfunnyfarm]

That's pretty darn good logic! I tend to agree because the end goal of any member of a species is continuation of the species.

[Lfunnyfarm]

I have a 5 inch Emperor Angel that is just now showing the very beginning signs of puberty, shall we say. His beautiful blue color is looking a bit faded in spots and three of the white lines on each side of his body are beginning to stretch laterally instead of looking like part of a maze.

He grunts at me when I come to the tank to feed. He grunts while competing for food, although there is plenty. Probably too much. He likes to chase the other blue fish - a Bellus Angel, a Indigo Hamlet, and a Regal Tang, more than any of the other inhabitants.