Plumbing expertise for a 265g

[Johnseye]

Please help me determine the best size piping and pump. I need to open up a wall on the first floor and drywall ceiling in the basement to drill down into the joists to run the plumbing. I'm planning on using 45 degree elbows and spa flex when necessary. No 90 elbows if I can help it. I won't have direct access to the back of the tank after the water goes in it. It will be against an external wall.


265g DT on the first floor, sump in the basement.
Distance from DT to sump is about 20 horizontal and 15 vertical.
Total head is about 20ft, say 25 to be safe as I haven't plumbed it yet.
Return will be to 2 bulkheads at the back of the tank.
Drains will be from an external overflow in beananimal design.
Considering either Reeflo or Iwaki external return pump.
I want to do this right, cost is not a concern.


I'm wondering if 1.5" drains and 2" return is to much? Can I get away with 1" or 1.25"?
Do the drain lines need to be the same diameter as the return?
Is schedule 80 necessary for the return pressure? Planning sch 40 for drains.
Which is quieter, the Reeflo or Iwaki?
How many GPH?

Thanks,

[Tigerdragon]

I would go 2" drains and 1.5" return and make sure to go pressure rated on the pump you are going to have a lot of back pressure on the pump

[Tigerdragon]

Gonna want any where from 5-10x tank size on return flow at tank use pwr heads for circulation in tank

[Dmorty217]

I would look into a Reeflo pressure rated pump or something similar. Pressure rated pumps usually aren't cheap but buy quality and buy once. Also I would use all the predrilled Bulls for drains only and run the return separately.

[FishTruck]

I would look into a Reeflo pressure rated pump or something similar. Pressure rated pumps usually aren't cheap but buy quality and buy once. Also I would use all the predrilled Bulls for drains only and run the return separately.

Hey Naperville!

+1 on reeflo pressure rated pumps. They run for years. Just clean the dust off the cooling fan from time to time. I have totally abused mine, spilling salt water on it and neglecting it for months and years. It just keeps chugging along.

I would start here

http://www.reeflopumps.com/flow-chart-all-pumps.html

Find the pump that fits your desired flow at 25 feet of head and look up the specs on the return line to match the pump. It will tell you what size line to use. Consider eductor nozzles to boost the circulation in your tank without running flow too fast through your sump.

I used plain schedule 40 on my system. I have had occasional leaks where spa flex and elbows meet. Also, I wish I would have used schedule 80 bulkheads, but, my 40s have held up for 8 years now.

Make sure your bubble trap is adequate for whatever flow you plan to push through the sump, and that your sump can handle the volume downward siphon during power outage.

I estimate that I run about 3500 - 5000 gph through my sump (return from the basement) - using a reeflo Marlin (they don't make the Marlin anymore). Dual 1.5 inch drains works fine for me. My bubble trap is one foot wide in the sump with four baffles and I get no micro-bubbles. In my case, I have about 24 inches of overflow with the waterline creeping about half way up the "teeth". If I double the flow, the water would begin to pour over the teeth of the overflow.

The flow your system can handle with the open loop that is your sump and pump will be determined by the 1. overflow size, 2. drains, and 3. your bubble trap.

Also, make sure you always have spare fittings, PVC primer and cement on hand!

[slief]

I would go at least 1.5" on the returns if not 2". If it were me, I would go 2" returns and 2" drains. You're going to have much more head pressure than you realize just from friction loss alone and flex PVC has more friction loss than rigid due to the fact that the inside of the flex PVC isn't smooth like PVC. Also, a pair 45's are not necessarily better than 90's. If anything, you can get curved 90 fittings which would be better in reducing friction loss. Regardless, I would oversize the plumbing even if you have to dumb it down at the tank. As others mentioned, a Reeflo Pressure pump would be your most practical choice and give you the best flow for the most efficiency.

[Johnseye]

I would look into a Reeflo pressure rated pump or something similar. Pressure rated pumps usually aren't cheap but buy quality and buy once. Also I would use all the predrilled Bulls for drains only and run the return separately.

Can you clarify what do you mean by predrilled Bulls and run the returns separately?

No love for Iwaki here? I've heard a lot of recommendations for Reeflo despite some seal issues, but not that much on Iwaki.

I don't think I'll have the room for four 2" runs. I'm gathering the bigger the better. My bulkheads will be 1.5" so if I'm able to do 2" I'll shrink it down near the tank.

What should I use from the bulkhead inside the tank to direct flow?

[Johnseye]

Find the pump that fits your desired flow at 25 feet of head and look up the specs on the return line to match the pump. It will tell you what size line to use. Consider eductor nozzles to boost the circulation in your tank without running flow too fast through your sump.

I used plain schedule 40 on my system. I have had occasional leaks where spa flex and elbows meet. Also, I wish I would have used schedule 80 bulkheads, but, my 40s have held up for 8 years now.

Make sure your bubble trap is adequate for whatever flow you plan to push through the sump, and that your sump can handle the volume downward siphon during power outage.

I estimate that I run about 3500 - 5000 gph through my sump (return from the basement) - using a reeflo Marlin (they don't make the Marlin anymore). Dual 1.5 inch drains works fine for me. My bubble trap is one foot wide in the sump with four baffles and I get no micro-bubbles. In my case, I have about 24 inches of overflow with the waterline creeping about half way up the "teeth". If I double the flow, the water would begin to pour over the teeth of the overflow.

The flow your system can handle with the open loop that is your sump and pump will be determined by the 1. overflow size, 2. drains, and 3. your bubble trap.

Also, make sure you always have spare fittings, PVC primer and cement on hand!

This is great info, thanks Downers. So I'm guessing the eductor nozzles are for inside the tank somehow connected to the bulkheads?

Will try to eliminate spaflex in areas I can't get to and run solid pvc. Was going to use spaflex to avoid the use of 90s but am learning that 90s aren't that bad and maybe better off trying to hard plumb everything.

How big is your sump? I was looking at between 80-100g. For the bubble trap, I was planning on 2 of them each about 3" but may need to reconsider. I've been working with Advanced Acrylics on making me a custom sump.

[slief]

No love for Iwaki here? I've heard a lot of recommendations for Reeflo despite some seal issues, but not that much on Iwaki.

I don't think I'll have the room for four 2" runs. I'm gathering the bigger the better. My bulkheads will be 1.5" so if I'm able to do 2" I'll shrink it down near the tank.

What should I use from the bulkhead inside the tank to direct flow?

I was going to recommend an Iwaki as well. They are bulletproof. On the flip side, they are power hogs, are much noisier and and have more heat transfer. I was happy to have the Reeflo's after running Iwaki's for many years. Running the big 2" line and shrinking it down at the tank is fine. It will give you better velocity into the tank reducing it down there vs a 2" bulkhead. The idea is reducing friction loss between the pump and the tank and and that big run and a bit of a flow killer. You could go over the back into a pair of 1" SeaSwirl or return through a pair of 1" bulkheads and use educations or something. I'm partial to Sea Swirls and have been running them for many years.

[FishTruck]

My Marlin return line is a single one inch pipe. That was the spec on the pump, so I followed it. If you are limited in space, I would devote the extra room to your drain lines, which are much more at the mercy of pipe diameter and gravity compared to your pressure rated pump. Bigger is always better, but, lots of 2 inch pipes might not be realistic.

I would avoid spa flex if possible. The hassles are not worth it in my experience. If you do use it, take your time to cut it flush and give everything extra drying time before putting it into action.

My Sump is about 120 gallons and about half full. My nozzles will siphon about 60 gallons of water out of my display tank. The siphon breaks I drilled in the return nozzles usually fail... so thank goodness for oversized sump.

The eductor nozzles will be in your tank right at the tip of the return nozzles. They make them for loc line or PVC. They cost about 5 feet of head pressure, but, boost circulation around the nozzle (in your tank) by 3 to 5 times. If you use them... then I think you are wasting time with 2 inch return lines - due to the much smaller opening at the nozzle.

Here's a video of the concept. Just like a jet engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZKBDIoczYA

youhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjJsc3i3uPJAhUCjoMKHVSBAIAQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alibaba.com%2Fproduct-detail%2FPP-tank-eductors-liquid-mixer-venturi_1871087992.html&psig=AFQjCNGyjfUTbNGTIi9joREL5l6ypy3wFQ&ust=1450470748425542 about 5 feet of head pressure, but, boost the flow by 3 to 5 x