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machodik
12/18/2015, 11:48 AM
Got it Scott. I think I will raise the sump depth and at the same time using a stand to raise my skimmer .

Well I will try to let my sump water down further one cm and if that is the sweet spot then it means I have to find a stand that will raise my skimmer water level back to 22.5 cm while my sump depth is at 27 cm then. In this case the stand should be around 5 cm high (may be an acrylic stand looks nicer then ).

slief
12/18/2015, 11:56 AM
This thread will be dedicated to setting up, tuning and trouble shooting Bubble King Skimmers. Feel free to ask any questions related to choosing the right skimmer as well as setting up, tuning or trouble shooting your skimmer.

machodik
12/18/2015, 12:03 PM
Hi Scott,

That's good you create a posting for this subject . Sorry to post on the other topic , can you transfer all related earlier post of mine to this area. Thanks

machodik
12/18/2015, 08:28 PM
After the water level goes down 1 cm more the skimmer looks not much change:

https://vimeo.com/149475674

Furthermore , when you said break In , usually this took a week ? How can I say my skimmer already hit the sweet spot , as of now no overflowing issue have been notice almost 5 days now .

slief
12/18/2015, 11:15 PM
After the water level goes down 1 cm more the skimmer looks not much change:

https://vimeo.com/149475674

Furthermore , when you said break In , usually this took a week ? How can I say my skimmer already hit the sweet spot , as of now no overflowing issue have been notice almost 5 days now .

It takes 1 to two weeks for the skimmer to completely break in. Overflowing typically happens in the first 24 hours. You won't know if you hit your sweet spot until the skimmer is completely broken in. I wouldn't expect to see much change with 1 cm of drop in water level. It will be subtle. You are making good foam and the skimmate looks fine. I'd say your skimmer is working well right now and it doesn't appear to need any adjustment.

machodik
12/21/2015, 05:56 AM
Exactly a week since it was set up.....does this means my skimmer broken in?;

https://vimeo.com/149631672

slief
12/21/2015, 08:27 AM
Exactly a week since it was set up.....does this means my skimmer broken in?;

https://vimeo.com/149631672

I would say your skimmer is broken in and appears to be skimming quite well.

machodik
12/21/2015, 09:05 AM
Thanks Scott, finally I got the answer for the heigh (water level ) of my going to build new sump .

biecacka
12/27/2015, 05:44 PM
Will be posting pictures of my new set up soon, it's in 8.5inches of water. Trying to dial it in but when I upload photos through photo bucket it shows my whole album.


Corey

biecacka
12/27/2015, 06:18 PM
Here it is I think.

Corey

slief
12/27/2015, 06:21 PM
Here it is I think.

Corey

Is this what you are trying to post? If so, I would say you are pretty close to a good setting to ride out through breakin. That is some very dense and good looking foam. It would appear that you have a fair amount of DOC's in your water. If it starts to come out the vent holes once you put the lid on, close the wedge pipe a tiny bit to wetten it up. In the mean time, put that lid on and see how it does.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_BB20D306-5E5E-43A1-93C6-78C592D05E78.mp4

biecacka
12/27/2015, 06:27 PM
Thank you. When you say wetten it you mean add more water into the chamber, correct?


Corey

slief
12/27/2015, 06:40 PM
Thank you. When you say wetten it you mean add more water into the chamber, correct?


Corey

Yes. Closing the wedge pipe will raise the water level in the skimmer body causing the skimmate to be more wet and not stay in a foam state as long. You could also bump the pump speed by 1 watt but I like the foam I see there so if anything, I would close the wedge pipe a tiny bit and see what that does. In the mean time, I would put the lid on and see how it does as it is. If you find the foam filling the cup up and coming out the vent holes then close the wedge pipe ever so slightly. It won't take much but a fraction of a turn. That heavy foam is an indicator or plenty of DOC's. It's looking good though. Much better foam than the videos I saw with it at the high pump speed.

biecacka
12/27/2015, 09:18 PM
Yes. Closing the wedge pipe will raise the water level in the skimmer body causing the skimmate to be more wet and not stay in a foam state as long. You could also bump the pump speed by 1 watt but I like the foam I see there so if anything, I would close the wedge pipe a tiny bit and see what that does. In the mean time, I would put the lid on and see how it does as it is. If you find the foam filling the cup up and coming out the vent holes then close the wedge pipe ever so slightly. It won't take much but a fraction of a turn. That heavy foam is an indicator or plenty of DOC's. It's looking good though. Much better foam than the videos I saw with it at the high pump speed.




There are PLENTY of DOC's in the tank. I know it's a lite load in there but it's been semi skimmer less for awhile.

Corey

biecacka
12/28/2015, 12:48 PM
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/7F8659DB-5C0D-4C7C-917A-2A98F0787388.mp4


Here is where it stands now, maybe some fine tuning is needed. I'm close tho I think. It hasn't broke in all the way yet so I want to get it close to he sweet spot the let it settle for a few days u til it's broken in. Then I will really dial it in and start taking back my tank!!!!


Corey

biecacka
12/28/2015, 04:43 PM
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/CA4AFE48-22C4-4FF3-A205-70082B7B8544.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_CA4AFE48-22C4-4FF3-A205-70082B7B8544.jpg

Now, lowered to 27 per sleifs thoughts


Corey

slief
12/28/2015, 05:39 PM
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/CA4AFE48-22C4-4FF3-A205-70082B7B8544.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_CA4AFE48-22C4-4FF3-A205-70082B7B8544.jpg

Now, lowered to 27 per sleifs thoughts


Corey
That's looking pretty good from a foam quality standpoint. I assume you put the lid back on it. How long has it been running that way with the lid on? How is the foam collecting in the cup with the lid on? I might suggest closing the wedge pipe a fraction of a turn if by tomorrow the foam isn't spilling over very slowly into the cup. My guess is that it will be though. Especially as the dissolved organics start building up in the neck which with foam that dense should be happening as I type this.

biecacka
12/28/2015, 06:09 PM
That's looking pretty good from a foam quality standpoint. I assume you put the lid back on it. How long has it been running that way with the lid on? How is the foam collecting in the cup with the lid on? I might suggest closing the wedge pipe a fraction of a turn if by tomorrow the foam isn't spilling over very slowly into the cup. My guess is that it will be though. Especially as the dissolved organics start building up in the neck which with foam that dense should be happening as I type this.

Been running this way with the lid for about 3.5-4 hours maybe. I'll leave it be until tomorrow to see how it pans out over night.
Thanks for all your help Scott

Corey

slief
12/28/2015, 06:30 PM
Been running this way with the lid for about 3.5-4 hours maybe. I'll leave it be until tomorrow to see how it pans out over night.
Thanks for all your help Scott

Corey

Glad to help. Will look forward to the update and hopefully some nicer brown stuff collecting in the cup. Be sure to take a picture of the cup with the lid on tomorrow so we can see what's going on in there. Removing the lid impacts the pressure in the skimmer neck a bit and tends to flatten the head out as you may have noticed. As such, seeing what's happening in the cup with the lid on can be somewhat telling.

biecacka
12/29/2015, 12:57 PM
got it plugged up and closed that wedge just a tad to see how it pans out


corey

slief
12/29/2015, 02:47 PM
got it plugged up and closed that wedge just a tad to see how it pans out


corey

Sounds good.

biecacka
12/30/2015, 01:28 PM
Ok Scott, no real change and nothing in the cup. Wedge is about 30-40% closed and power is on 30. So should I lower the skimmer and if so how much? Or is it okay to just bump up the power to maybe 32 or so and see what that does.

Corey

slief
12/30/2015, 02:26 PM
Ok Scott, no real change and nothing in the cup. Wedge is about 30-40% closed and power is on 30. So should I lower the skimmer and if so how much? Or is it okay to just bump up the power to maybe 32 or so and see what that does.

Corey
Sure. You could bump the power and see what it does.. You could even drop the power and close the wedge a bit more. Ideal sump depth is normally around 8-8.5" but since you are a really low load, you could go 9" without an issue and lower the pump speed a tiny bit. That will reduce bubble size further which is always a good thing. Keep in mind, you are still breaking in. While you can settle at a sump depth, once the skimmer breaks in, you will still need to find the sweet spot which you should be getting close to.

biecacka
12/30/2015, 02:42 PM
Ok. Break in time is about a week or so? How will I know when it's broken in?
I have 10 fish going into the display next week possibly. Taking my count to 30. I can leave it where it is for now. I'm just curious about it is all.

Corey

slief
12/30/2015, 03:05 PM
Ok. Break in time is about a week or so? How will I know when it's broken in?
I have 10 fish going into the display next week possibly. Taking my count to 30. I can leave it where it is for now. I'm just curious about it is all.

Corey

There is no way of telling for sure that break in is complete other than knowing the minimum time is about a week at which point there will be a good slime coating inside the skimmer. At the 2 week point, it is without a doubt broken in.

Since you aren't seeing anything in the cup yet, I would close the wedge pipe slightly and see what that yields in terms of skimmate. Lowering the skimmer is at this point isn't really needed since you're not broken in yet and you're going to be adding more fish. Once we find the sweet spot for you pump after more fish are in there, then we will see if the sump needs adjustment. When you close your wedge, set it so the transition from heavily aerated water to where it turns to foam is just above the base of the neck. This transition will appear as an obvious line. Since your load is light, I would target that transition to be about 1/4" up from the white ring where the collection cup connects to the body of the skimmer. Make you wedge pipe adjustments slowly and give it a minute to settle down. A little tiny turn of the wedge will make a big difference in the level inside the skimmer.

The other alternative would be to increase your wattage in 1 watt increments as that will also raise the level in your skimmer but I did like the foam I saw. It's kind of a matter of experimenting to see what results in the best foam that is pushing the waste up the neck the best couple with a water level inside the skimmer that results in that waste going over the neck and into the cup slowly. Every tank is different which is where fine tuning for the individual tank comes into play. There really is no right or wrong but the general idea is that the lower the pump speed, the longer the contact time and the smaller the bubbles. With a lower speed comes the need for a high level in the skimmer which is where sump depth and or wedge pipe adjustments come into play. This isn't much different that any other skimmer in terms of the end result. You just have a better ability to fine tune the skimmer and foam with the RD3. Don't be afraid to play with different settings over the coming days. When I setup my Supermain 250, I played with it for nearly a month making little changes here and there to get a feel for what worked best for me in terms of pump speed and the level inside my skimmer.

biecacka
12/31/2015, 01:25 PM
Here it is today.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/148A1C34-C73F-4671-9471-8E5AE7006840.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_148A1C34-C73F-4671-9471-8E5AE7006840.jpg

Corey

slief
12/31/2015, 01:32 PM
Here it is today.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/148A1C34-C73F-4671-9471-8E5AE7006840.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_148A1C34-C73F-4671-9471-8E5AE7006840.jpg

Corey

Looks great now! You are finally skimming and something to show for it in the form of skimmate in the cup. I wouldn't mess with it anymore for a few days and see what it produces.

vikz
01/01/2016, 04:59 PM
Guys I have jyst bought double cone 200 with rd3 pump for my 180g reef. Previous to this i was running an atb 840 and its absolutely fantastic skimmer. But I treated myself this Christmas.

Skimmer is now 2 weeks old. After 1 week it started skimming, but it was in shalliw water of 16cm, running at 34w with wedge pipe 75-80% closed. But it then stopped skimming.

Following advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing consistant skimmate like me previous skimmer. This Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 34w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

In order to improve and make more consistent do you:

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?
Leaving it to run as it is?
Is there really a big differdnce at each setting?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

slief
01/01/2016, 08:04 PM
Guys I have jyst bought double cone 200 with rd3 pump for my 180g reef. Previous to this i was running an atb 840 and its absolutely fantastic skimmer. But I treated myself this Christmas.

Skimmer is now 2 weeks old. After 1 week it started skimming, but it was in shalliw water of 16cm, running at 34w with wedge pipe 75-80% closed. But it then stopped skimming.

Following advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing consistant skimmate like me previous skimmer. This Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 34w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

In order to improve and make more consistent do you:

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?
Leaving it to run as it is?
Is there really a big differdnce at each setting?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

Can you tell me a little about your tank? Display size, number and size of fish etc? It would help greatly to understand your load which is why I am asking. Also, what is your salinity and are you measuring with a hydrometer or a properly calibrated refractometer? I ask because it sounds like you either have very low load in terms of fish or really low salinity. The symptoms are that of an oversized skimmer for the display size or load. Without enough dissolved organics, a skimmer can't make a proper consistent foam head and would have to be adjusted really wet to produce consistently. The larger the skimmer, the more dissolved organics needed for the skimmer to be consistent. As such, please tell me more about your tank and the answers to the above questions may shed some light.

Your pump level is higher than I would normally recommend for that skimmer and you are running at a higher depth that I would normally suggest for a reasonably stocked tank. Normally I would suggest around 20-22cm and a pump speed of around 27-30 watts. The lower wattage will decrease the bubble size which makes better foam and will increase the contact time. Both of which are important for best skimmer performance but the depth is kind of a variable that depends on other factors. A lighter load will necessitate a higher sump level. The heavier the load necessitates a lower sump level. Your skim is wet in part because of the high pump speed and high water level. Less is more sometimes and in this case, the smaller bubbles coupled with the increased contact time will produce better results. In your case, these changes will lower the foam level in your skimmer so you will need to make futher adjustments to raise the foam level in the skimmer. I would suggest dropping the wattage to 30 watts and closing the wedge pipe to raise the level of foam in your skimmer. That or raise the sump level even more so that your skimmer is in 25cm of water. Even so, with the lower pump speed, you are more than likely going to need to close the wedge pipe a bit even if you raise your sump level another cm.

Edit:
It seems about a year ago you and I corresponded on the forum about skimmers. We were originally talking about the double cone 200 until you indicated that the display size was 125g and the total system volume was 180 or so gallons at which point I said that made a difference and suggested the double cone 180.. I also explained that you don't want to oversize these skimmers. What prompted you to do with the DC200?? Hopefully you got a bigger tank because the double cone 200 is too large for a 125 gallon display which would explain why the skimmer is running inconsistently and your need to adjust it really wet to keep it producing. See my post below because if my hunch is correct, than that changes things a bit.

slief
01/01/2016, 08:13 PM
From our previous conversation in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2462653



Thanks slief

I just noticed when you said my "display size"

My total nett volume is 176G (including display and sump and fuge)
Not just display volume.

Display tanks holds probably 125G Nett water after displacement (150G gross)

Does that affect things?

In this case as the double cone 180 is same size as my ATB 840,do you think im undersized currently with my ATB?

Sorry for all the questions, at this price I just want to get it right first time


That does effect things. With high end skimmers like the Bubble Kings that are properly rated, you should base the skimmer size on the display size since that is where the livestock/bio load is concentrated. As such, I change my recommendation to the Double Cone 180. The 180 will be perfect for your system.

If the above is correct and your display is 125, I would suggest lowering the pump speed down to 28 watts. Raise your sump level to around 25cm.. You might need to go deeper. The idea is to use the lower wattage to create drier foam and use the sump level to raise the foam level so that the water transitions to foam just above the white collar where the collection cups neck threads onto the skimmer body. You want to use the sump level to raise it up with the wedge pipe wide open or close to it. That way you can use the wedge pipe to fine tune it from there. You ideally don't want to close the wedge pipe more than 50% at your final setting. The lower pump speed will create better foam for removing the dissolved organics. The higher sump level will get the foam up into the neck.If you can't raise the sump level more or lower the skimmer deeper into the water, then use the wedge pipe to get the water to foam transition up into the neck. It will take several hours or more to settle in so make the adjustment and give it some time. I would suggest removing the collection cup drain plug so it can drain back into the sump if the skimmer overflows since you will be making a major change in settings.

vikz
01/02/2016, 03:50 AM
Hi slief

You correct that was me before and my system and display size has stayed the same.

You recommended the 180 but jeremy b said to go for 200.

He said as coral mass increased it would increase bio load etc. And the 200 would be better suited in the long run.

So 1 year later with bigger corals here I am.

Reef runs at s.g of 1.025 with a refractometer.

Fish load
1 medium achilles tang
1 small kole tang
1 small convict tang
1 medium bkueface angel
1 royal gramma
1 flame angel
1 longnose butteffly
2 clownfish
2 emporer cardinals
3 green chromis
3 bicolour chromis
3 medium wrasse

Thanks

slief
01/02/2016, 09:23 AM
Hi slief

You correct that was me before and my system and display size has stayed the same.

You recommended the 180 but jeremy b said to go for 200.

He said as coral mass increased it would increase bio load etc. And the 200 would be better suited in the long run.

So 1 year later with bigger corals here I am.

Reef runs at s.g of 1.025 with a refractometer.

Fish load
1 medium achilles tang
1 small kole tang
1 small convict tang
1 medium bkueface angel
1 royal gramma
1 flame angel
1 longnose butteffly
2 clownfish
2 emporer cardinals
3 green chromis
3 bicolour chromis
3 medium wrasse

Thanks
Corals don't really contribute to the load much unless you feed them a lot where as fish do because they eat and poop. You have a decent fish load but the skimmer is a bit oversized. I would reduce the pump speed as I suggested above. Try 28 watts. That will reduce the bubble size and increase the contact time which will create better foam. Then increase the water level in the sump to raise the level inside the skimmer. Start by raising the water level 1/4" and see where that gets you. From there, you can try to use the wedge pipe to raise it further but try not to go past 1/2 closed. If you need to go past 1/2 closed then raise the water level in the sump further. You want the water to transition to foam inside the neck. I would aim for the transition point to be about 1/4" an inch above the point were the neck attaches to the body. That would be your starting point with a moderately light load for this skimmer. You may have to go higher but I would start there.

vikz
01/03/2016, 03:23 AM
Thanks for the help slief

Im a little disappointed I was advised by both jeremy and royal exclusiv to go for the 200. Have I bought a very expensive paperweight?

I will try the setting you have suggested.

So to clarify the lower the wattage the smaller the bubbles (better) but less water is processed (bad) so its a case of balancing the 2. Is that right?

Confuse
01/03/2016, 09:51 AM
I didn't want to make a whole thread about this, so I hope it's somewhat relevant to this one day...

I cleaned out my skimmer today and I noticed three of my impeller teeth were broken off. I then remembered a while back I had a snail slipped in and got caught in the intake, but took it out. It was probably this instance that broke it.

Anyways, I was wondering if there was any kind of snail guard available that could prevent this.

Thanks in advance!

slief
01/03/2016, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the help slief

Im a little disappointed I was advised by both jeremy and royal exclusiv to go for the 200. Have I bought a very expensive paperweight?

I will try the setting you have suggested.

So to clarify the lower the wattage the smaller the bubbles (better) but less water is processed (bad) so its a case of balancing the 2. Is that right?

No.. You didn't buy an expensive paper weight. You have a very good skimmer. You will just need to tune it a bit wetter. As for less water being processed, that is counter intuitive. It's not about how much water is processed but instead about how much dissolved organics is removed as the water passes through the skimmer. As such, the faster water passes through the skimmer often results in less organics being removed. The color and smell of your skimmate is the tell tale indicator of how well the skimmer is working.

slief
01/03/2016, 02:02 PM
I didn't want to make a whole thread about this, so I hope it's somewhat relevant to this one day...

I cleaned out my skimmer today and I noticed three of my impeller teeth were broken off. I then remembered a while back I had a snail slipped in and got caught in the intake, but took it out. It was probably this instance that broke it.

Anyways, I was wondering if there was any kind of snail guard available that could prevent this.

Thanks in advance!

Snails and hermits will do that. They are working on some titanium inlet protectors but those are primarily for the flow pumps right now though there're may be something for the skimmer pumps coming as well. Snails in the sump are one of the reasons why I like my filter socks. One thing you could do is create a small acrylic box with lots of little slots in it and a hole at one end for the volute to slip into. I've often though of making something like that myself but in my case, the socks prevent that for the most part. With the Red Dragon 1 pumps that have the adjustable volute, something like that would be a bit of a pain if you needed to adjust the volute but for the RD3's, it certainly could work well.

Confuse
01/03/2016, 02:34 PM
Snails and hermits will do that. They are working on some titanium inlet protectors but those are primarily for the flow pumps right now though there're may be something for the skimmer pumps coming as well. Snails in the sump are one of the reasons why I like my filter socks. One thing you could do is create a small acrylic box with lots of little slots in it and a hole at one end for the volute to slip into. I've often though of making something like that myself but in my case, the socks prevent that for the most part. With the Red Dragon 1 pumps that have the adjustable volute, something like that would be a bit of a pain if you needed to adjust the volute but for the RD3's, it certainly could work well.

Thanks. My sump etiquette was pretty poor, but I am now dedicated to keeping a filter sock, so maybe that'll minimize this. I have to shamefully admit that I didn't clean the RD3 for two years since I've had it running and it ran like a champ for that entire time.

Disassembly was a breeze and I got a load of the giant impeller and titanium shaft that makes this skimmer tick. It was quite impressive to say the least. These things are built solid! Wish I would have taken a picture!

slief
01/03/2016, 03:43 PM
Thanks. My sump etiquette was pretty poor, but I am now dedicated to keeping a filter sock, so maybe that'll minimize this. I have to shamefully admit that I didn't clean the RD3 for two years since I've had it running and it ran like a champ for that entire time.

Disassembly was a breeze and I got a load of the giant impeller and titanium shaft that makes this skimmer tick. It was quite impressive to say the least. These things are built solid! Wish I would have taken a picture!

It does have a pretty massive impeller and magnet doesn't it? I'd swear, the impeller alone weighs more than a complete comparable Chinese DC pump. :lolspin:

That massive motor and impeller make it a much more powerful motor in terms of what will ultimately stop it as well as how much abuse it will take.

biecacka
01/03/2016, 08:57 PM
One week of running http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/A4B4CCE6-3EC0-4BB8-A43C-CA9FEAEACA76.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_A4B4CCE6-3EC0-4BB8-A43C-CA9FEAEACA76.jpg

How's this look?!

Corey

slief
01/03/2016, 09:05 PM
One week of running http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/A4B4CCE6-3EC0-4BB8-A43C-CA9FEAEACA76.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_A4B4CCE6-3EC0-4BB8-A43C-CA9FEAEACA76.jpg

How's this look?!

Corey

Looks pretty good. Maybe a little on the wet side but it's hard to tell from pics and video. How long did it take to fill that much of the cup? How dark and smelly is the skim? What's the current pump setting? 27w?

biecacka
01/03/2016, 09:32 PM
It's been running since Sunday. I haven't touched it for 3 days. Yes it is a bit on the wet side, the pump is on 27 and it is dark rich color of coffee. Stinks, but I think it can get nastier.

Corey

slief
01/03/2016, 10:16 PM
It's been running since Sunday. I haven't touched it for 3 days. Yes it is a bit on the wet side, the pump is on 27 and it is dark rich color of coffee. Stinks, but I think it can get nastier.

Corey

Open the wedge pipe a tiny tiny bit. Just a crack is all it should take. That will help make it darker and stinkier but it will slow the skim collection down until you get a heavier load.

biecacka
01/03/2016, 11:03 PM
Open it a bit. To lower water level a tad. My new fish should be ready Tuesday, I have 10 coming in. That will put me at 31 fish total. I dose vinegar and vodka as well to help my nitrate issue I have been having. It's been a week and I am already pleased with the results I'm getting, can't wait to reach its potential.

Corey

arkoujohn
01/04/2016, 09:36 AM
I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

slief
01/04/2016, 09:58 AM
I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

As for breaking in the new skimmer, you really don't need it during the cycle and it can be counter productive. If you decide to run it during break in, set it to around 27 watts and remove the drain plug and let the collection cup drip back into the sump until you get through the cycle and have some fish in the tank. As for cycling the tank, I'd toss a piece of raw shrimp in it and let that start your cycle. The tank will take around 30 days to complete the cycle. If you are starting with live rock, that usually helps with seeding the tank with a wide range of bacteria which can help shorten the cycle.

biecacka
01/05/2016, 08:02 PM
Scott, I opened it a bit and got nothing in cup. So I closed it a bit today to see how it goes for the next few hours. I added 10 more fish to the tank today and upped my vodka/vinegar dosing to 4/10ml of each. Not a lot but an increase. Hopefully tomorrow we will see some sludge in there, if not I'll close it a very small amount again. Any other pointers?

Corey

slief
01/05/2016, 08:20 PM
Scott, I opened it a bit and got nothing in cup. So I closed it a bit today to see how it goes for the next few hours. I added 10 more fish to the tank today and upped my vodka/vinegar dosing to 4/10ml of each. Not a lot but an increase. Hopefully tomorrow we will see some sludge in there, if not I'll close it a very small amount again. Any other pointers?

Corey

No pointers to add. The additional fish and feeding will add dissolved organics to your water which will increase your foam production. As such, the lower level in the skimmer may be needed but go back to what was working before you backed it off and see how it does after a couple days. I would expect an increase in skimmate so you will likely need to fine tune a bit more.

biecacka
01/05/2016, 08:41 PM
as the vodka/vinegar mixture kicks in, should any adjustments be made for that. I see most people dosing this prefer to skim wetter by choice. I shouldn't have to change anything, maybe just expect nastier stinkier skim maybe?

Corey

slief
01/05/2016, 09:34 PM
as the vodka/vinegar mixture kicks in, should any adjustments be made for that. I see most people dosing this prefer to skim wetter by choice. I shouldn't have to change anything, maybe just expect nastier stinkier skim maybe?

Corey

You will have to make your adjustments based on the skimmate production. Personally, I've never had to dose vodka or any other carbon sources but I would adjust my skimmer no differently if I was. I'd adjust my skimmer to produce the best quality foam that the results in the best consistent skimmate and personally, I've always preferred to skim wet as that always results in the most consistent results.

biecacka
01/05/2016, 09:39 PM
Okay. When you say wet, you mean a bit drier than I have been and showed in the pictures above? It's been about a week and half so it's probably broken in or close to it. So now it's just dialing it in I assume

Corey

slief
01/05/2016, 10:58 PM
Okay. When you say wet, you mean a bit drier than I have been and showed in the pictures above? It's been about a week and half so it's probably broken in or close to it. So now it's just dialing it in I assume

Corey

Not necessarily drier than you were. It's about finding a balance and what works for your system. If I were you, I'd be experimenting a bit more. Especially since you just added more stock and need to make adjustments anyway. When I looked at your last video, to me it seemed like the bubbles (when the lid was removed) appeared to be bursting kind of quickly. This was probably in part due to there not being as much dissolved organics as you might have thought there were but if it were my skimmer, I would experiment some more and lower the wattage 1 watt and see what that does to the foam. It would likely require raising the level in the skimmer a bit to generate more skimmate by closing the wedge but then again, it may not since you just increased your load. The foam is why I suggested lowering the water level first to see what that did. It's all about learning the skimmer and how it responds to small adjustments once you are in the "ball park". Every system is different which is why you need to experiment to find what works best for you tank based on it's load, sump level, salinity etc.

You are trying to find the sweet spot where you generate the stinkiest skimmate possible while also keeping it consistent. These skimmers will generate some of the most foul smelling skimmate that I have seen with any skimmer I have ever used. It's the ability to really fine tune these that makes them really great. I've said it before and I will say it again, don't be afraid to play with it a bit more to find that sweet spot for your tank. You are close but that doesn't mean it can't get better. Play with the pump speed a bit and use the water level to compensate for the pump speed adjustments. You will know if your water level is right by the skimmate production being consistent and you will know if the pump speed is ideal by the stench of the skimmate coupled with the production. Really watery skimmate will won't smell as bad as drier skim but consistency is what you are after so you need to find that balance and you are close.

biecacka
01/06/2016, 10:07 AM
Gotcha. Thanks! Can you explain to me what lowering the skimmer into deeper water will do or is it not really needed with the addition of more fish. It is amazing to know that 20 fish in my tank is a light load for this skimmer and that 30 is moderate. :D I don't know about the DOC's, I assume there are plenty. 20 fish for a year, feeding 2-4 vibes a day and producing no skim for a year. My nitrates are 75-100 as of last night. There has to be something in there I would think. But the skimmer is almost dialed in. I am going to thicken it up just a bit from the sludge it pulled the other day.
I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments.

Corey

slief
01/06/2016, 11:20 AM
Gotcha. Thanks! Can you explain to me what lowering the skimmer into deeper water will do or is it not really needed with the addition of more fish. It is amazing to know that 20 fish in my tank is a light load for this skimmer and that 30 is moderate. :D I don't know about the DOC's, I assume there are plenty. 20 fish for a year, feeding 2-4 vibes a day and producing no skim for a year. My nitrates are 75-100 as of last night. There has to be something in there I would think. But the skimmer is almost dialed in. I am going to thicken it up just a bit from the sludge it pulled the other day.
I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments.

Corey

Lowering the skimmer deeper into the sump (same as raising the water level in the sump) will have the same effect as closing the wedge. It will raise the water level in the skimmer. If you need to close the wedge beyond the 50% point, then I would suggest raising the water level in the sump or lowering the skimmer so you aren't having the resort to restricting the flow out of the skimmer too much as that can cause surging in the skimmer. I think I mentioned it before but if not, I will mention in now, I always try to adjust the skimmer level via the sump so I start with the wedge pipe nearly wide open. I find the best setting for the skimmer in terms of bubble quality and then make subtle sump level adjustments to get the level in the ball park with the wedge wide open. Then all I do is make very subtle adjustments to the wedge pipe to raise of lower the level inside the skimmer. Keep in mind that the speed of the pump has a direct impact on the water level in the skimmer just as it does the bubble quality. I Adjust the pump to get the thickest foam I can. In the case of the old Red Dragons with the adjustable volute, that meant turning the volute. In the case of the RD3, that requires finding the sweet spot for the pump. As I said, every system is different. It takes a bit of playing around. You find a ball park setting with the pump, then you slow it down and see how the foam looks a few hours later. Then you speed it up a bit and see what that does. A bit of testing and you find the sweet spot. Once I find that sweet spot, I then adjust the sump level to get the water level where it transitions from bubbles to foam up to the base of the neck at the top of the part where the neck meets/threads to the body. Then I use the wedge pipe to adjust it up from there. That is how I find tune my skimmers.

As for your nitrate issue, I suspect that is the result of a couple things. First, skimmers remove dissolved solids. They don't really remove nutrients although these solids eventually will break down and contribute to nutrients. The big factor in nutrient reduction like nitrates is bacteria. In the case of the natural approach to bacterial reduction in our tanks, live rock plays a big role in that because it provides the surface space for the bacteria to congregate. This is one of the benefits of deep sand beds as they provide additional surface space for denitrifying bacteria much the same way live rock does. Some people use fake rock for their aquascapes but fake rock isn't as porous and doesn't offer the same surface space within the rock like real live rock does. Often the tanks that have high levels of nitrates don't have a lot of live rock or at least enough live rock for the load. The other factor is waste accumulation in the substrate. Having waste break down in the sand and not vacuuming with regularity is a recipe for high nitrates. This is where lots of flow can help so that waste is sent over the overflow so it can be skimmed out and or filtered out via socks. Refugiums and turf scrubbers help consume nutrients from the tank but they don't remove dissolved solids so you still end up with particles in the water and detritus that the skimmer would otherwise remove. Cabron dosing generates bacteria that consumes nitrate causing nutrients but it is a crutch or band aid in my opinion.

At the end of the day, the skimmer is part of a complex solution. The skimmer removes solids that become nutrients. The skimmer adds dissolved o2 to the system. The combination of those two factors increase ORP. The skimmer is also an important part of the gas exchange process that removes nitrogen from our water but it's not the end all be all when it comes to nitrate issues. Its only one part of the solution.

In my tank, I don't have detectable nitrates despite having a pretty good load. I attribute that to a lot of live rock. I have somewhere between 700 and 1000 pounds of it. I also run a 30"x36" deep sand bed in my refugium that has a combination of mud, sand a live rock rubble. I also run two refugiums. I have a high amount of flow that is well planned out to insure that stuff doesn't settle on the bottom and I use filter socks to catch the solids that pass into the sump. Lastly, my tank has been up for around 18 years and is very well established. I have a bacterial bed that can keep up with anything I throw at it.


As for 20 fish being a low load vs 30 being a moderate load.. Load is relative to waste from the fish and feeding. You can have 30 small fish in the tank and have that be a small load. Size of the fish and how you feed is where dissolved solids (DOC's) are generated. The amount of waste that skimmer produces consistently is the best sign of your load. This assuming that the skimmer is tuned well.

biecacka
01/06/2016, 11:46 AM
I have had to cut back seriously on my feedings for my fish. Some have actually lost weight. But my nutrient level is absurd. I didn't skim for over a year. Not 2ounces. I have a fair amount of rock but limited sump space for more. My tank is in the living room as is my sump....of my apartment. :lol: Little sand, and I continually blow my rocks to remove any debris so it can get to my sump/socks. I know they aren't the same but they can be related. That is why I pointed out my nutate issue. I was feeding 3-5 cubes a day plus nori. I'm down to 1-2 cubes to be safe plus nori. Ever so often they get an extra cube. I have no detectable phosphates. I have a plan of attack to reduce the nutrient build up tho. That's another talk. Only about 10 of my fish are over 5-6 inches for now. So they are almost all small but will grow sometime. I am going to tinker some more, the wedge is only closed about about 30% now. I'll see how it goes as it sits in 8 inches of water now, I might lower it.

Corey

mike810
01/06/2016, 10:47 PM
I have a double cone 250 with rd3 pump. Running at 40watts in 9.5" of water. Wedge pipe is 80-90% closed. The water line is half way up the cup, I'm not getting real good skim mate. I've had the skimmer running for 3 weeks since I last cleaned it and only able to get 3/4" of skim.

My tank is a 250 with 80 gallon sump. I would say I have a high bio load with 20 fish and 7 of them being tangs raning from med to large size.
What am I doing wrong? I see people filling their cups up within a week or so. I can go months without filling my cup. I bought the avast neck cleaning hoping that would improve skim mate but nada.

Please help me get the most out of my skimmer, tank has been up and running for two years.

biecacka
01/07/2016, 09:25 AM
Maybe skimmer is too big. I debated on that skimmer and advised to get the 200. No need to oversize these skimmers. Same size tank and 30 fish. Tangs, angels some the size of my hand. I'm sure scott will chime in but I'll take a shoot....
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber.

Corey

slief
01/07/2016, 09:31 AM
I have a double cone 250 with rd3 pump. Running at 40watts in 9.5" of water. Wedge pipe is 80-90% closed. The water line is half way up the cup, I'm not getting real good skim mate. I've had the skimmer running for 3 weeks since I last cleaned it and only able to get 3/4" of skim.

My tank is a 250 with 80 gallon sump. I would say I have a high bio load with 20 fish and 7 of them being tangs raning from med to large size.
What am I doing wrong? I see people filling their cups up within a week or so. I can go months without filling my cup. I bought the avast neck cleaning hoping that would improve skim mate but nada.

Please help me get the most out of my skimmer, tank has been up and running for two years.

Reduce the pump speed to 37 watts... That will make better foam and is a good power level for the 250. Also, I assume you have the ozone port capped off?? If not, it should be. From the sounds of it, your load is lower than you think for that skimmer. While 9.5" is at the higher end of the range for that skimmer, you may need to go deeper since you are resorting to closing the wedge pipe that much. If you have to go past 1/2 closed, the skimmer should be deeper so you can open the wedge a bit. Reduce the pump speed and give it a day and go from there.. 37-38 watts max is the best range for that skimmer and a little bit can make a big difference in terms of skimmate quality.

slief
01/07/2016, 09:34 AM
Maybe skimmer is too big. I debated on that skimmer and advised to get the 200. No need to oversize these skimmers. Same size tank and 30 fish. Tangs, angels some the size of my hand. I'm sure scott will chime in but I'll take a shoot....
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber.

Corey
LOL... You're hired! :thumbsup:

Good advice actually.. The force is strong with you.

If he lowered it down to 35 watts, 1/2" deeper would be about spot on although that is really kind of deeper than it should need to be with a good load.. And given his load, the normal sweet spot of 37 watts may not be low enough.. Additional contact time at 35 watts wouldn't necessarily hurt.. I'd start at 37 watts and 1/4" deeper at this point though and then go from there..

biecacka
01/07/2016, 10:08 AM
I can help others just not myself!!!! :lol: no mine looks good this morning.
I read these threads sometimes 2-3 times each post to learn so I can trouble shoot mine and help others maybe down the road. I have learned a lot from your posts scott!
Hired?!!! How did you know I was job searching???? :lol:

Corey

clorox
01/07/2016, 10:30 AM
I have learned a lot from your posts scott!


Corey

Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.

My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.

I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.

Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have :)

biecacka
01/07/2016, 10:36 AM
My biggest complaint is I don't have a RE Dreambox. :lol: however hat has nothing to do with them as I just haven't ordered one! :lol:
This is my first RE product and thus far I am impressed with all facets of the product.

Corey

slief
01/07/2016, 11:16 AM
I can help others just not myself!!!! :lol: no mine looks good this morning.
I read these threads sometimes 2-3 times each post to learn so I can trouble shoot mine and help others maybe down the road. I have learned a lot from your posts scott!
Hired?!!! How did you know I was job searching???? :lol:

Corey

You certainly seem to understand it well now. I'm glad your skimmer is working well for you and I'm especially glad to help!

Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.

My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.

I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.

Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have :)

Thanks for the positive feedback guys!

I hear you on the fixed connection concern. There is a good reason behind the fixed connection though. Connecting the pump to the controller while the controller has power to it can result in a damaged pump or damaged controller. As such, this was done as a safety precaution because inevitably, some people would connect the pumps to a powered controller resulting in failures of controllers or pumps. This would obviously impact warranty rates so fixed wiring was used to prevent accidental induced failures. The RD3 230 includes a removable pump connection which should trickle down to other RD3 models in the future but there is no timeline on that. I also don't know what if any changes are being made to the controller circuitry to prevent failures as a result of hot plugging the pump into the controller.

Confuse
01/07/2016, 11:30 AM
Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.

My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.

I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.

Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have :)

That's my biggest complaint about the pump. I have to give it a vinegar bath in a bucket inside if I don't want to unplug everything and expose the control box to the outside. But I got used to it.

vikz
01/08/2016, 09:14 AM
Hi guys

Skimmer has been set and ran now for 4/5days.

Its running at 30w and pipe open 4 lines.

I have video showing the skimmer so far. If you guys could watch and let me know your opinion.

Heres a link.
https://youtu.be/9MOODPzhKO0

Thanks

slief
01/08/2016, 11:32 AM
Hi guys

Skimmer has been set and ran now for 4/5days.

Its running at 30w and pipe open 4 lines.

I have video showing the skimmer so far. If you guys could watch and let me know your opinion.

Heres a link.
https://youtu.be/9MOODPzhKO0

Thanks
That doesn't look bad at all. Normally I would suggest starting at about 27 watts with this skimmer but since it's a bit oversized for your setup, I'd say you are doing pretty well where you are.

Give it a few more days as it's not yet completely broken in. Once it's broken in, you could try slowing the pump down a bit in 1 watt increments. That will increase the contact time which will darken the skimmate up. It will also slow the skim production down. If you do slow the pump down, drain the collection cup so you can see the results. You will have to find a balance between darker skimmate and consistency. Should you decide to slow the pump down, give it several hours to settle in or 24 hours to see what it produces. You will likely need to close the wedge pipe a bit to maintain consistency.

Confuse
01/08/2016, 01:22 PM
That doesn't look bad at all. Normally I would suggest starting at about 27 watts with this skimmer but since it's a bit oversized for your setup, I'd say you are doing pretty well where you are.

Give it a few more days as it's not yet completely broken in. Once it's broken in, you could try slowing the pump down a bit in 1 watt increments. That will increase the contact time which will darken the skimmate up. It will also slow the skim production down. If you do slow the pump down, drain the collection cup so you can see the results. You will have to find a balance between darker skimmate and consistency. Should you decide to slow the pump down, give it several hours to settle in or 24 hours to see what it produces. You will likely need to close the wedge pipe a bit to maintain consistency.

Sorry Scott, I know you've mentioned this before, but can you define what the following actions/functions below do?

Pump
Increase watts/percentage = ???
Decrease watts/percentage = ???

Body (Wedge pipe)
open = ???
close = ???

Is the wedge pipe just to raise the water level of the skimmer? How would I decide between increasing/decreasing the wattage vs. opening/closing the wedge pipe?

How do I "wet skim"? (settings, etc.)

How do I "dry skim"?

slief
01/08/2016, 02:04 PM
Sorry Scott, I know you've mentioned this before, but can you define what the following actions/functions below do?

Pump
Increase watts/percentage = ???
Decrease watts/percentage = ???

Body (Wedge pipe)
open = ???
close = ???

Is the wedge pipe just to raise the water level of the skimmer? How would I decide between increasing/decreasing the wattage vs. opening/closing the wedge pipe?

How do I "wet skim"? (settings, etc.)

How do I "dry skim"?


Pump
Increase watts/percentage = increases water and air flow into the skimmer. This decreases contact time and increases bubble size. Increasing the pump speed will also raise the water level inside the skimmer.

Decrease watts/percentage = Increases contact time by decreasing flow through the skimmer and also decreases bubble size. Decreasing the pump speed will also decrease the water level inside the skimmer.

Increased contact time coupled with decreased bubble size results in more efficient DOC removal. There is a point of deminishing return with this and every model skimmer is different however each sized skimmer has it's sweet spot range in terms of pump speed.

250 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 36 and 38 watts.
200 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 27 & 30 watts.
180 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 22 & 24 watts.
Much of that depends on the amount of DOC's. Less DOC's typically require higher water levels inside the skimmer to keep the foam head up higher in the neck in order to keep the skimmer producing consistently.


Body (Wedge pipe)
open = reduces water level inside the skimmer lowering the foam head.
close = increases water level inside the skimmer by restricting it's flow out of the skimmer and raises the foam head.

I prefer to use sump level to fine tune the water level as much as possible so that the point of where the bubbles transition to slower moving foam is at the base of neck with the wedge pipe wide open. Then do the real fine tuning with the wedge pipe so that I only have to close the wedge pipe slightly.

To wet skim, first find the best pump speed to create the most solid foam head possible. The raise the water level inside the skimmer either via the sump level or by closing the wedge pipe to lighten the skimmate color. The higher the level in the neck where bubbles transition to foam, the wetter the skim. By raising the level, you are essentially thinning the skimmate. Wetter skim results in increased skimmate production.

To dry skim, find the best pump level to get the most solid foam head and lower the level inside the skimmer to darken the skimmate. The lower the level where bubbles transition to foam in the neck, the drier/darker/thicker the skim. It really is a visual thing as far as what you see in the collection cup. These skimmers are very efficient in the speed at which they remove solids from the water. As such, the DOC's are removed, adjustments may need to be made to compensate for the reduced DOC's. That typically would mean raising the level inside the skimmer slightly s that the point that the bubbles change to foam are higher up in the neck. This adjustment typically requires a very slight adjustment to the wedge pipe by closing it ever so slightly. Drier skim results in decreased skimmate production.

The amount of DOC's in the water has a direct impact on ideal settings. The lighter the load in relation to the skimmer size, the more difficult it is to tune a skimmer dry and keep it consistent. In the absence of enough DOC's for the size skimmer, you end up with bubbles that tend to burst faster at the surface instead of generating thick foam. This is because the DOC's provide the proteins necessary to make the bubbles stick together to form consistent foam. The larger the skimmer, the larger the neck diameter and the more DOC's needed to fill that neck with foam. This is one reason why sizing one of these skimmer correctly is important. It allows you to have more control over the skimmer performance and allows it to produce consistently both wet and dry. If the skimmer is oversized or if there aren't much in the way of DOC's for the size skimmer, consistently maintaining a good foam head is difficult. This necessitates the need to wet skim in order to maintain consistency.

jcs11236
01/08/2016, 03:09 PM
This thread is very informative. Thank you.
So I am running my bk mini 160 and have the wedge 75% closed. Running at 9" water level. So you suggest I run skimmer deeper? from what I am gathering is that I have low docs.

slief
01/08/2016, 03:56 PM
This thread is very informative. Thank you.
So I am running my bk mini 160 and have the wedge 75% closed. Running at 9" water level. So you suggest I run skimmer deeper? from what I am gathering is that I have low docs.

The Mini unlike the double cone and other models, doesn't offer the pump adjustments via the adjustable volute on the Red Dragon pump or via the pump speed control on the RD3 pump. As such, your skimmer, you are dependent on the water level inside the skimmer for fine tuning.

With the Mini on a relatively light load, I would normally start with the wedge pipe wide open and use the sump level to get the water level up to the middle to higher end of the range below. With a heavier load, I would adjust the sump level to the lower end of the range in the photo below. Then use the wedge to fine tune so you aren't having to close it so much. In a very lightly stocked tank or in the case where this skimmer is oversized for the load, your water level in the sump will typically be higher than the "optimal range" which is 7.75" to 8.50". In your case given that you are already at 9" I think it's a safe assumption that the amount of dissolved organics in your system is on the low side for that skimmer. As such, assuming your skimmer is broken in and you like the way it's perfoming, you could note where the water level (transition from water to bubbles) inside the skimmer is now. Open the wedge pipe all the way and raise the water level of the sump enough to get the transition point and 1/4" below where you have it now. Then close the wedge pipe to adjust it from there back to the bubble level you have it at now. That should only require you to close your wedge pipe around 1/4 of the way.

Keep in mind that when you open the wedge pipe up to make this adjustment, it's going to impact/disrupt the skimmers bubble output for a little while. As such, raise the sump level 1/4" at a time and give the skimmer an hour or two to settle back down before making another adjustment. You won't want to overshoot the depth in your sump only to have the skimmer overflow. My guess is that you will end up around 9.5"-9.75" given your wedge pipe is a 75% closed. Having said that, these adjustments aren't going to necessarily make that skimmer perform much better unless you are seeing surging (water going up and down in the skimmer body). As such, you could also leave it alone but I would at least raise the level a little bit in the sump so your wedge isn't so closed.

For reference, here is the range that you would normally target for the transition from water to bubbles in the mini skimmer. Heavier load would require a lower transition than a lighter load. The key for you is finding a water level that results in the most consistent skimmate production where it's not overflowing and it's still producing reasonably dark skimmate.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Royal%20Exclusiv/image_zpsdwvfyelw.jpeg

jcs11236
01/08/2016, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the informative reply.
You are correct, skimmer runs nicely for a few days and then goes out of wack. Not very consistent. And now I am aware it has to do with the low docs.
im goin to do like you stated and see how deep it needs to be in order to run wedge open. I feel like the inconsistency has to do with the wedge being so closed if that makes sense

slief
01/08/2016, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the informative reply.
You are correct, skimmer runs nicely for a few days and then goes out of wack. Not very consistent. And now I am aware it has to do with the low docs.
im goin to do like you stated and see how deep it needs to be in order to run wedge open. I feel like the inconsistency has to do with the wedge being so closed if that makes sense

The wedge closed that much will only impact the skimmer by causing siphoning from the drain line. It shouldn't have any real impact on consistency. The restriction will cause the level inside the skimmer to rise up until there is enough head pressure to cause the water to siphon from the drain side. This becomes pretty obvious because you will see an up and down motion inside the skimmer every several seconds or less at the bubble line. We refer to that as surging and like I said, it's usually pretty obvious.

In your case, I suspect what you are seeing is the result of the skimmer driving the dissolved organics out of the system. Once that happens, the skimmer can no longer make a good foam head so it will idle along for several days (not producing any skimmate) until the DOC's build back up. Once they build up enough, the skimmer will start producing a good foam head again and generate skimmate for a couple days or more until it reduces the DOC's. Then the cycle repeats. If you have the skimmer set too wet, it will want to inadvertently overflow. There is however a fine line where you should be able to adjust it wet enough that it will produce wet skimmate reasonably consistently. You just have to adjust the internal water level high enough in the skimmer to get it to produce consistently but low enough that it doesn't overflow if you look at it wrong. This requires very subtle fine adjustments of the wedge pipe and getting the sump level in the right ball park first will go a long way in terms of being able to take advantage of the fine adjustments the wedge pipe offers.

It's also very critical that you run an ATO to maintain a consistent sump level otherwise your skimmer will never be consistent. It will overflow if you add too much water and not produce with the slightest bit of evaporation. Same goes with water changes. Add too much new water and your skimmer may overflow. Too little water and your skimmers internal level will drop.

machodik
01/08/2016, 07:37 PM
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;

https://vimeo.com/151204285

The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer;

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/08/e6ae828fee7c68e6b56d9dbe9c2d403f.jpg

I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ?

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/08/aca381fd47735275701d7e3c15e546c8.jpg

Cheers,


MD

slief
01/08/2016, 11:15 PM
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;

https://vimeo.com/151204285

The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer;

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/08/e6ae828fee7c68e6b56d9dbe9c2d403f.jpg

I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ?

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/08/aca381fd47735275701d7e3c15e546c8.jpg

Cheers,


MD

Looks like that big skimmer is working pretty ok on your little tank. You could wetten it up a bit to increase it's skimmate production but you do have a light load for that skimmer and it's working pretty well from the looks of it. As for the Venturi tube, how much closed is that wedge pipe?? If it's closed too much, that won't help with the slack in that line. Take a look at this picture. Verify where the wedge pipe opening is so you know how much open or closed it is. Then disconnect the airline from the pump and rotate the wedge pipe 180* so the airline goes into the pipe on the pump side like in this picture. The you will have plenty of slack. Then readjust the wedge pipe and remember what I told you, adjust your sump level so you don't have to close the wedge pipe more than 50%.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/image_zpsuko7lhvi.jpeg

machodik
01/08/2016, 11:52 PM
Hi Scott, I love this skimmer it let me feed more but I wonder if I keep doing more feeding will it lead to my po4 goes way up again?

For the Venturi tube, you mean I have to removed the red color airline pipe and then rotate the red wedge pipe 180 degree as shown in the photos ?

My wedge is wide open as of the moment .

slief
01/09/2016, 09:50 AM
Hi Scott, I love this skimmer it let me feed more but I wonder if I keep doing more feeding will it lead to my po4 goes way up again?

For the Venturi tube, you mean I have to removed the red color airline pipe and then rotate the red wedge pipe 180 degree as shown in the photos ?

My wedge is wide open as of the moment .

Maybe I misunderstood what you were asking about in the previous post. You had mentioned that you were wondering why the silicone tube was attached to the red pipe which is restricting you from moving your pump to a different position. Are you talking about the clear Venturi tube that goes from the pump through the wedge pipe or are you talking about the one that connects the pump to the bottom of the skimmer? If you are talking about the one that connects the pump to the bottom of the skimmer, that is by design. It's the closest spot on the simmer body to the Venturi line location that pump can be mounted to. That closeness to the wedge pipe where the Venturi line is located as it makes it way to the air silence above the wedge pipe helps reduce pressure that might restrict airflow with a Venturi longer line. If you are talking about the Venturi line, that line is just long enough for the wedge pipe to be able to be open all the way as well as closed. The longer the Venturi line, the greater the restriction of air flow. Kind of like sucking soda through a straw. The longer the straw, the harder you have to suck.

A a side not, disregard rotating the wedge pipe 180*. With the wedge pipe wide open, I don't think that will work for you. That said, I see no issue with the way your Venturi line is routed anyway so I would just leave it alone.

Confuse
01/09/2016, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the detailed response, Scott!

machodik
01/09/2016, 06:04 PM
I am referring to the silicone tube was attached to the red wedge pipe which is restricting me to rotate the wedge pipe fully.

The silicone tube that comes out on the certain point of the red wedge pipe and connect to the pump. That is the one in my questions ( not the clear tube connecting the base of the pump to the base of the skimmer.)

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/09/bb5bc3ccd77bc306596ae21caaf13500.jpg

slief
01/09/2016, 08:56 PM
I am referring to the silicone tube was attached to the red wedge pipe which is restricting me to rotate the wedge pipe fully.

The silicone tube that comes out on the certain point of the red wedge pipe and connect to the pump. That is the one in my questions ( not the clear tube connecting the base of the pump to the base of the skimmer.)

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/09/bb5bc3ccd77bc306596ae21caaf13500.jpg

Your wedge is wide open and the tube is just long enough for it to be wide open. If you need to close the wedge pipe, rotate it counter clockwise. That will add slack. You can also double check to see if you rotate the wedge pipe 180* counter clockwise as I think that will also leave the wedge fully open. I haven't looked inside the wedge pipe of the Double Cones to see how they are cut.

machodik
01/10/2016, 06:52 AM
Thanks Scott,

Got it!

biecacka
01/10/2016, 02:54 PM
Skimmer has broken in and the skimmate slowed down a bit. Wedge pipe was about 50-60% closed. So I redid my skimmer stand and dropped the skimmer from 8 inches to about 9 inches in depth. I'll watch this over and make changes as needed. This should allow me to keep the pump at 27 which will allow for longer bubble contact in the chamber, I think.

Corey

slief
01/10/2016, 03:43 PM
Skimmer has broken in and the skimmate slowed down a bit. Wedge pipe was about 50-60% closed. So I redid my skimmer stand and dropped the skimmer from 8 inches to about 9 inches in depth. I'll watch this over and make changes as needed. This should allow me to keep the pump at 27 which will allow for longer bubble contact in the chamber, I think.

Corey

Sounds like you are on the right track. The slowed skimmate production is a sign that the skimmer caught up with the DOC's in your tank. Lowering it will help to give you better control via the wedge so you can wetten it up more without having to close the pipe too much. At the same time, wettening it up a bit will result in more skimmate production.

biecacka
01/10/2016, 04:16 PM
That is nuts that it has possible caught up with the DOC's in the tank. I skimmed none for a long time and my tank has the struggles to show it. But this will allow me to get the best production from the skimmer.

Corey

slief
01/10/2016, 05:17 PM
That is nuts that it has possible caught up with the DOC's in the tank. I skimmed none for a long time and my tank has the struggles to show it.

It's not as crazy as you think. First, these skimmers are very efficient when it comes to removing DOC's. To put it in perspective. At 27 watts, you're pushing nearly 400GPH through the skimmer. That means you are running your systems entire water volume through the skimmer roughly 16 times per 24 hours. This is figuring a total water volume of about 260 gallons. In 7 days, you would have run your entire systems volume through the skimmer over 112 times.

mike810
01/11/2016, 03:44 AM
Maybe skimmer is too big. I debated on that skimmer and advised to get the 200. No need to oversize these skimmers. Same size tank and 30 fish. Tangs, angels some the size of my hand. I'm sure scott will chime in but I'll take a shoot....
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber.

Corey

Reduce the pump speed to 37 watts... That will make better foam and is a good power level for the 250. Also, I assume you have the ozone port capped off?? If not, it should be. From the sounds of it, your load is lower than you think for that skimmer. While 9.5" is at the higher end of the range for that skimmer, you may need to go deeper since you are resorting to closing the wedge pipe that much. If you have to go past 1/2 closed, the skimmer should be deeper so you can open the wedge a bit. Reduce the pump speed and give it a day and go from there.. 37-38 watts max is the best range for that skimmer and a little bit can make a big difference in terms of skimmate quality.

Thanks for the response. I lowered it to 37 watts, didn't do much. I'm running it at at 34 watts now. Will see how it goes.

vikz
01/11/2016, 06:27 AM
Once it's broken in, you could try slowing the pump down a bit in 1 watt increments.

thats not possible on mine :thumbdown

my pump is adjustable by 2 watt increments. the range is

20, 22, 24,26,28,30,32,34,36 etc..... all the way to 50w.


Skimmer has now fallen flat over last 2 days, there is not foam head in the neck, bubbles are bursting very quickly at base of neck, even if I increase power to 50w no change. I havent added any oils, water change, fresh salt, or epoxy etc to the tank

any advice?

P.s because I am in the UK, I understand our pumps spin slower than yours in the USA (50hz vs 60hz)

do you think that affects anything?

slief
01/11/2016, 08:54 AM
thats not possible on mine :thumbdown

my pump is adjustable by 2 watt increments. the range is

20, 22, 24,26,28,30,32,34,36 etc..... all the way to 50w.


Skimmer has now fallen flat over last 2 days, there is not foam head in the neck, bubbles are bursting very quickly at base of neck, even if I increase power to 50w no change. I havent added any oils, water change, fresh salt, or epoxy etc to the tank

any advice?

P.s because I am in the UK, I understand our pumps spin slower than yours in the USA (50hz vs 60hz)

do you think that affects anything?
If anything, you would need to slow the pump down and not speed it up. If you haven't already tried, move it to 28 or 26 watts and raise the level in skimmer by closing the wedge pipe or raising the sump. The reduced speed and flow will decrease the bubble size. Unfortunately, with an oversized skimmer like that, you will have to run the skimmer with the bubble level higher in the neck to keep it remotely cosnsistent. You just don't have the right amount of DOC's in your water to fill the neck with consistent foam. Instead you will have bubbles that burst at the surface. By slowing it down, they will burst slower resulting in better contact time and by raising the level inside the skimmer, you will get better waste export given your load.

vikz
01/11/2016, 11:16 AM
If anything, you would need to slow the pump down and not speed it up. If you haven't already tried, move it to 28 or 26 watts and raise the level in skimmer by closing the wedge pipe or raising the sump. The reduced speed and flow will decrease the bubble size. Unfortunately, with an oversized skimmer like that, you will have to run the skimmer with the bubble level higher in the neck to keep it remotely cosnsistent.

thanks slief, for all the help so far.

In my previous video pump at 30w and pipe closed to the 4line mark, the foam was dense and 'heavy/frothy' in the neck originally before stopping.

If I drop power to 28w the wedge pipe must be closed around 65-70% (~7.5 lines from open) to get the foam in the correct height....but it looks more 'airy' and 'fine' not 'thick' and 'frothy' if that makes any sense???? is that ok?

i was advised on another forum to increase pump power if I have low organic loads, the direct opposite of what your saying..:confused::confused:

should I run at 28w with the wedge closed 65-70%??

slief
01/11/2016, 01:42 PM
thanks slief, for all the help so far.

In my previous video pump at 30w and pipe closed to the 4line mark, the foam was dense and 'heavy/frothy' in the neck originally before stopping.

If I drop power to 28w the wedge pipe must be closed around 65-70% (~7.5 lines from open) to get the foam in the correct height....but it looks more 'airy' and 'fine' not 'thick' and 'frothy' if that makes any sense???? is that ok?

i was advised on another forum to increase pump power if I have low organic loads, the direct opposite of what your saying..:confused::confused:

should I run at 28w with the wedge closed 65-70%??

I am not a fan of closing the wedge pipe that much because as I have said before, you might encounter surging. Thus my suggestion for raising your water level. In the event that you can't raise your water level, then your only option is to increase the pump speed. Regarding lowering the speed vs increasing it, lowering it increases contact time which can increase DOC export but there is a point of diminishing returns. In your case, its going to take some experimenting to figure out what settings work best. Higher pump speed vs lower pump speed and increased sump depth. You can obviously experiment by lowering the pump speed to 26 watt, closing the wedge to 65-70% and see how it performs. Then compare that to your 34 watt performance. The skimmate production and quality will be your best method of judging the performance for your lower load. That said, running it at a higher power certainly won't hurt anything and I am sure it will work OK. You just may find that the skimmate is lighter colored than it may be at a lower pump setting if you are able to raise the level inside the skimmer enough.

biecacka
01/16/2016, 11:24 AM
Scott take a look at this and tell me your thoughts....

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/A86F7408-4E01-404C-8908-486BE35481B4.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_A86F7408-4E01-404C-8908-486BE35481B4.jpg

Corey

slief
01/16/2016, 01:42 PM
Scott take a look at this and tell me your thoughts....

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/A86F7408-4E01-404C-8908-486BE35481B4.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_A86F7408-4E01-404C-8908-486BE35481B4.jpg

Corey

Looks good to me!

vikz
01/17/2016, 07:14 AM
Hi guys

What is acceptable foam water level in double cone 200?

If i run it at 28w as recommended then the water level line is approx 2" inside skimmer neck. See video https://youtu.be/uXPQceRB0g0

Else if i run at 30w the water level line is were the cup and body connect. But the skim is wet like weak tea

slief
01/17/2016, 09:21 AM
Hi guys

What is acceptable foam water level in double cone 200?

If i run it at 28w as recommended then the water level line is approx 2" inside skimmer neck. See video https://youtu.be/uXPQceRB0g0

Else if i run at 30w the water level line is were the cup and body connect. But the skim is wet like weak tea

Because your skimmer is way oversized for your tank size and load, you will need to raise the water level in the skimmer about 1" or maybe a little more to keep it consistent at 28 watts which is where I recommend you keep it. Close the wedge pipe a bit more or raise the sump level a little at a time until you have the water level raised inside the skimmer so that it transitions from water to foam about 1/3 the way up the neck instead of the 1/2" to 1" above the white collar where it's at now.

seregus
01/20/2016, 11:51 AM
Hi guys,

As I asked on another BK thread on this forum - I do run Double Cone 180 for about 3 months on new tank, before it was running on a different one and was in a storage (commercial, dry and not too cold) for about 6 months.
Basically issue is microbubbles. They are like just going as a huge outcome from the pipe - it was not like this on a first setup.

I was suggested to rise water level and lower pump to 23-24 watts - you will not believe but I did this like a couple of hours ago, because this was the only setting I've not tried yet. It is still doing exactly the same.

The only idea left so far - it was in a storage. but I didn't clean it never, I mean - neck yes and collection cup, but not the skimmer body fully ... since original setup started... Should I unscrew and remove all the old dust - could it be reason skimmer doesn't want to "break-in"...

I mean it was taken from old setup and was sitting for many month dry...

slief
01/20/2016, 12:24 PM
Hi guys,

As I asked on another BK thread on this forum - I do run Double Cone 180 for about 3 months on new tank, before it was running on a different one and was in a storage (commercial, dry and not too cold) for about 6 months.
Basically issue is microbubbles. They are like just going as a huge outcome from the pipe - it was not like this on a first setup.

I was suggested to rise water level and lower pump to 23-24 watts - you will not believe but I did this like a couple of hours ago, because this was the only setting I've not tried yet. It is still doing exactly the same.

The only idea left so far - it was in a storage. but I didn't clean it never, I mean - neck yes and collection cup, but not the skimmer body fully ... since original setup started... Should I unscrew and remove all the old dust - could it be reason skimmer doesn't want to "break-in"...

I mean it was taken from old setup and was sitting for many month dry...


I would definitely suggest you take the pump apart and clean it thoroughly in vinegar. Then give the impeller, volute and block a good scrubbing followed by a good rinse. If there is debris caught in the impeller, that could impact the skimmers performance and result in micro bubbles. It wouldn't hurt to clean the skimmer body as well because if there is stuff stuck to the side of the skimmer body, that will create turbulence inside the skimmer.

Also make sure the ozone tube is capped off. You don't want the pump drawing air from the red ozone tube.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the reduced flow and increased water level should help but if the pump is dirty inside or if you don't have the ozone port plugged off, you may get micro bubbles. Lastly is break in. I am assuming that this skimmer has been running for 3 months now and was not just started back up? If you just put it back into the system for the first time in a little while, it will take some time to break in but from the sounds of it, it should already be broken in.

seregus
01/20/2016, 03:09 PM
Thank you vrry much for yor tips first of all.
I did cleaned skimmer body and found a small stone inside turbulence chamber... Dont know how it got in, but hope it was a reason.
Pump was cleaned twice before in Royal Exclusiv descale solution - twice.
Currently its still producing microbubbles in a same way it was before - I can see they are going down from main chamber into the lower and to output...

Checked ozone input and its closed for sure.

Will do video tomorrow and post here...

Hope its just breaking in again and bubbles will stop...

Thanks a lot and will keep you posted!

slief
01/20/2016, 03:23 PM
Thank you vrry much for yor tips first of all.
I did cleaned skimmer body and found a small stone inside turbulence chamber... Dont know how it got in, but hope it was a reason.
Pump was cleaned twice before in Royal Exclusiv descale solution - twice.
Currently its still producing microbubbles in a same way it was before - I can see they are going down from main chamber into the lower and to output...

Checked ozone input and its closed for sure.

Will do video tomorrow and post here...

Hope its just breaking in again and bubbles will stop...

Thanks a lot and will keep you posted!

If you just started the skimmer for the first time after pulling it out of storage, it will take a week or so to break in again after drying out during which time microbubbles can be expected.

mike810
01/20/2016, 09:37 PM
Thanks for the response. I lowered it to 37 watts, didn't do much. I'm running it at at 34 watts now. Will see how it goes.

I've resorted to raising it to 47 watts. The water line is half way up the cup. Now I am finally getting consistant foam making it over the neck and into the cup. When I was running it at 30ish watts, I would see foam one day and then go several days without seeing foam make it into the cup.

I am glad I finally have it dialed in making dirty dirty foam which actually makes it into the cup!

biecacka
01/21/2016, 02:36 PM
Here's a weird question, so I started using filter socks about a month ago with a new skimmer. As the socks clog, the skimmer performs less. When I change out to a new sock, I notice a much drier foam and much higher. I'm still tinkering with the skimmer to find the sweet spot, so sometimes I have to re adjust the skimmer levels when new socks are put into operation. Thoughts?

Corey

slief
01/21/2016, 03:16 PM
Here's a weird question, so I started using filter socks about a month ago with a new skimmer. As the socks clog, the skimmer performs less. When I change out to a new sock, I notice a much drier foam and much higher. I'm still tinkering with the skimmer to find the sweet spot, so sometimes I have to re adjust the skimmer levels when new socks are put into operation. Thoughts?

Corey
Wow.. You really are paying a lot of attention to that skimmer! :lmao: I never bothered to pay that much attention to my skimmate production between sock changes and I never mess with my skimmer settings before or after sock changes. I haven't really messed with my skimmer settings in a number of months because it always produces consistently. That's not to say I get the same amount of skimmate in the cup every week. I wouldn't expect that because my feeding habits vary slightly and I don't weigh my food rations out daily. Still, there is always new and nasty skimmate being produced and because of that, I know it's working well so there is no need to adjust it.

On to how I would explain it. Socks remove solid waste as well as larger dissolved solids (larger than the socks micron size) from the water. Some of which would otherwise be removed my the skimmer. As time passes, some of the waste/solids in the socks starts breaking down to the point that its small enough to pass through the socks in the form of dissolved solids or over the edge of the socks if they totally back up and overflow. This would take a few to several days and probably coincides with the socks plugging up which is about the time that you change them. Since the socks are catching some of the solids before you skimmer does, when the trapped solids start breaking down, there will be slightly more waste entering the skimmer compartment in your sump which would result in increased skimmate production. One other thing. When your socks back up, they retain more water. If you have enough socks and a sump that's water level is impacted slightly when you change the socks, the increased water level from the sock change may cause a wetter skim until the extra water retained in the dirty socks evaporates.

biecacka
01/21/2016, 04:09 PM
It is interesting to be because they go crazy with clean socks. The chamber is in an area that water level cannot be sustained at a height that changes without sock. I attribute it to maybe a sudden "gushing" of water towards the pump until it settles with a new sock put on. However it overflowed today which is why I ask. I am paying very close attention as I am still trying to find that sweet spot on my skimmer. :D

Corey

slief
01/21/2016, 06:01 PM
It is interesting to be because they go crazy with clean socks. The chamber is in an area that water level cannot be sustained at a height that changes without sock. I attribute it to maybe a sudden "gushing" of water towards the pump until it settles with a new sock put on. However it overflowed today which is why I ask. I am paying very close attention as I am still trying to find that sweet spot on my skimmer. :D

Corey

Not sure how you wash your socks but I use bleach and do it in the washing machine with an extra rinse cycle and a pre wash cycle. I also turn the socks inside out when they go into the wash to help get the waste out of them. New or clean socks can change the surface tension in the water which can have a direct impact on the skimmer. In my setup, I don't have any issues when I change my socks but I don't run my skimmer all that wet either. The wetter you run the skimmer, the great the chance of it overflowing. Finding the balance that works best it the tricking part. Especially when we try to judge our skimmers performance based on how much we see in the collection cup. I've learned that if my skimmer is running consistenly and always pulling out some skimmate, it's not how much it pulls out but instead the quality of what it pulls out.

biecacka
01/22/2016, 10:19 AM
I wash mine that way too. I'm trying to dry mine up as far as skim goes. I just don't want it going days and not doing anything. I'm making small tweaks and letting it sit for a few hours.
On a separate note tho, once I get the nitrates more controlled i can feed more which will help the skimmer perform better

Corey

himat
01/24/2016, 11:42 AM
hi

just what to know the increment settings on the RD3

Now I have got the DC 200 from a fellow reefer.
what i have read on this thread is mentioned to adjust power level 26-27, etc in 1 watt increments , the RD3 controller i have increments in 2 watts.
Is there a setting to adjust in 1 watt increments or is this fixed. its not very clear in the instructions what increments are for the RD3 50W controller.

slief
01/24/2016, 12:23 PM
hi

just what to know the increment settings on the RD3

Now I have got the DC 200 from a fellow reefer.
what i have read on this thread is mentioned to adjust power level 26-27, etc in 1 watt increments , the RD3 controller i have increments in 2 watts.
Is there a setting to adjust in 1 watt increments or is this fixed. its not very clear in the instructions what increments are for the RD3 50W controller.

The latest European RD3 controllers are only adjustable in 2w increments as are the latest version of the RD3 pumps sold here in the US with the smaller controller. This is a recent change with the newest controllers. On your DC 200, I would suggest starting it at 28 watts. Depending on your load, you sweet spot will likely be either 26, 28 or 30 watts unless you have a very low load system.

himat
01/24/2016, 01:20 PM
thanks,
will try at it at 28 and see how it goes, at present 30w and wedge pipe closed two lines
from fully open.

slief
01/24/2016, 01:29 PM
thanks,
will try at it at 28 and see how it goes, at present 30w and wedge pipe closed two lines
from fully open.

You will likely need to close the wedge pipe slightly more once you reduce the speed. Give it several hours after you make the pump speed adjustment before making any wedge pipe adjustments just so you can get a feel for or the change in foam. The pump speed adjustment will result in increased contact time and smaller bubbles which should translate to a more dense foam. The change will also result in less water going into the skimmer which will lower the water level in the neck slightly. Thus the potential need to close the wedge pipe a bit if your foam isn't reaching the top edge of the neck after several hours.

himat
01/24/2016, 01:53 PM
will do,
is it normal for the skimmer foam to collapse when feeding i always notice this on my prevues skimmer as well,

slief
01/24/2016, 03:05 PM
will do,
is it normal for the skimmer foam to collapse when feeding i always notice this on my prevues skimmer as well,

Very normal. The oils in the food change the surface tension of the water and will collapse the foam head temporarily. This is particularly common when feeding oily foods such as mysis and rinsing in RODI water will help reduce that phenomenon. The same thing can happen if you place your hands in the water near the skimmer as the oil on your skin can have the same impact on some systems.

himat
01/30/2016, 06:44 AM
hi
slief

update on skimmer after one week
my Total display tanks are 745 litres display and frag tank
total fish stock at present 37 fish tangs, angels, wrasses , clowns
mainly SPS.
Display Pic
340607
skimmer in water depth of 22.5cm max i can do in my sump.
see photo of skimmer one week running at 30w wedge pipe at 1/3 to 1/2 closed
340606

skimate is dark and grubby in the neck
want to try for little wetter, will try at 32 with wedge pipe closed at 2 line from fully open,
not sure if skimmer is broke in yet.

slief
01/30/2016, 10:32 AM
hi
slief

update on skimmer after one week
my Total display tanks are 745 litres display and frag tank
total fish stock at present 37 fish tangs, angels, wrasses , clowns
mainly SPS.
Display Pic
340607
skimmer in water depth of 22.5cm max i can do in my sump.
see photo of skimmer one week running at 30w wedge pipe at 1/3 to 1/2 closed
340606

skimate is dark and grubby in the neck
want to try for little wetter, will try at 32 with wedge pipe closed at 2 line from fully open,
not sure if skimmer is broke in yet.

It won't hurt to bump the flow up but that skimmer looks like it's working great based on the skimmate. Running wetter won't really remove any more waste from the water. It will just produce lighter colored skimmate and remove more water from the system. You will also decrease the contact time slightly which will result in the skimmer not being as efficient in remove the waste meaning that the water will potentially have to pass through the skimmer more times to remove the organics. Then again, experimenting is part of learning the skimmer so you know how well these settings work now, adjusting it a bit higher and even a bit lower (will necessitate closing the wedge pipe a bit more) will help you better understand your skimmer as well as help you in finding your sweet spot.

Please report back so we can and let us know how it works and post some more pictures so we see your results.

autodave
01/31/2016, 08:41 AM
Hi Scott, I am hoping you can provide some insight for me.

I am running a Double Cone 150, water depth is 6.25 in., wedge pipe is 25% closed, pump nozzle is 1 turn out. It has been running a little over 4 weeks.

My tank is a 93g, 5 year old established reef with a medium/light load.

My issue is that I get the skimmer setup running fine, producing a good foam and collecting a good color absorbate. It will skim great for a day or two then the water level in the skimmer will rise on it's own, usually resulting in the skimmer overflowing.
Any help why it might be doing this would be great! -Dave

slief
01/31/2016, 10:30 AM
Hi Scott, I am hoping you can provide some insight for me.

I am running a Double Cone 150, water depth is 6.25 in., wedge pipe is 25% closed, pump nozzle is 1 turn out. It has been running a little over 4 weeks.

My tank is a 93g, 5 year old established reef with a medium/light load.

My issue is that I get the skimmer setup running fine, producing a good foam and collecting a good color absorbate. It will skim great for a day or two then the water level in the skimmer will rise on it's own, usually resulting in the skimmer overflowing.
Any help why it might be doing this would be great! -Dave


You're pushing too much water and not enough air into that skimmer which is why it's rising and overflowing after it settles in. Opening the nozzle will decrease the flow of water into the skimmer, increase the air and increasing the contact time. The reduction in flow will lower the water level in the skimmer and stop the overflowing and also prevent surging which happens when the water comes into the skimmer faster than it can drain out. The level will rise until a siphon is created out of the drain line. You may need to raise your sump level a bit after making the adjustment because you don't want to have to close the wedge pipe more than 50% to adjust the water level.


Open the volute/nozzle to 4.5 full turns from closed as a starting point for the Double Cone 150. I suggest closing the nozzle all the way and marking the nozzle with a sharpie so you have a clear line across the nozzle and the part it threads into on the volume. This way you have a good reference point as to where you are in terms of fine tuning. The sweet spot for the Double Cone 150 skimmer will be some place between 4 and 5 turns out on the nozzle but generally about 4.5 turns on the nozzle is real close and in most cases perfect. If the load in the tank is really low (for the skimmer), you will be closer to 4 turns out where as with a heavy load, closer to 5 turns out. Either way, I'd start at 4.5 turns, let it settle in for a day. Adjust the sump level to get the transition from water to foam up into the neck right at the top of the threaded collar where the neck attaches to the body. My guess is that you will need to raise the sump level about 1/2". Use the wedge pipe to adjust from there but avoid closing the wedge pipe more than 50%. If you need to close it more than 50%, increase the sump level slightly.

Once it settles in for a day or two and you get a good idea of how the foam looks, you can experiment a bit with the nozzle by closing it a fraction of a turn. A tiny bit at this point will make a big difference so don't turn it 1/4 turn at a time but instead 1/16th or so at a time and note how the change effects the skimmer by looking at the density of the foam. Also keep in mind that every time you reach into the sump to adjust the nozzle, the oils from your skin will impact the surface tension of the water. As such, it will take several hours for the skimmer to settle back before you really know the impact of the adjustment. As such, be sure to allow plenty of time between adjustments so you really know the full impact of them.

autodave
01/31/2016, 12:27 PM
I am confused about the nozzle. You said opening it (I'm assuming you mean turning it counter- clockwise) will decrease the flow of water. But on the instruction manual they say the opposite...
The water intake screw-on nozzle is designed to control the amount of water pumped into the mixing chamber. Turning the nozzle counter-clockwise will increase the water pumping capacity and screwing it clockwise will reduce the throughput (about 500 litres per turn).

ranger2806
01/31/2016, 02:44 PM
I am having A hard time understanding adjusting the DC 151 it talks about adjusting the white nozzle and having it to turns out does that mean with it all away screwed tight and backing it out to turns if that's the case why is there like 15 turns that it can come out or is it when u start to see actual threads showing? and where are you wanting to have the water level inside the cone?and are they saying to have where the bubbles go to foam right at the bottom of the neck where the wet foam goes to dry foam?

slief
01/31/2016, 02:57 PM
I am confused about the nozzle. You said opening it (I'm assuming you mean turning it counter- clockwise) will decrease the flow of water. But on the instruction manual they say the opposite...
The water intake screw-on nozzle is designed to control the amount of water pumped into the mixing chamber. Turning the nozzle counter-clockwise will increase the water pumping capacity and screwing it clockwise will reduce the throughput (about 500 litres per turn).

The Nozzle when screwed all the way in (clockwise) will restrict the airflow. These pumps spin at one speed and don't know the difference between water and air. The less air it draws in, the more water it will pump into the skimmer. When you open the nozzle by turning it counter clockwise, it allows more air into the pump which reduces the water flow because air is displacing the water contrary to what the manual states. And contrary to what the manual states, start at 4.5 full turns out. I will have to have a discussion with the guys in Germany regarding the manual because it's counterintuitive and not really correct.

slief
01/31/2016, 02:59 PM
I am having A hard time understanding adjusting the DC 151 it talks about adjusting the white nozzle and having it to turns out does that mean with it all away screwed tight and backing it out to turns if that's the case why is there like 15 turns that it can come out or is it when u start to see actual threads showing? and where are you wanting to have the water level inside the cone?and are they saying to have where the bubbles go to foam right at the bottom of the neck where the wet foam goes to dry foam?


See my posts above. Screw it in clockwise until it's tight. Mark it with a sharpie pen with a straight line across the top of the nozzle and the part it threads into so you have a reference point. Unscrew the nozzle 4 1/2 full turns out from fully closed and start there. The manual states a starting point of 1.5 turns out and in my experience, that is not a good setting for this skimmer. The ideal setting is anywhere from 4 to 5 full turns out from fully closed and a sump depth of 6.5" - 7.5" depending on the load. I would normally suggest a starting depth of 6.75" with the wedge pipe wide open.

You want the water/fast moving bubbles to transition to foam right around to top side of the white flange where the neck threads to the skimmer body. You should see a solid obvious line in the neck where this transition from bubbles to foam occurs. If the load is light or if you want a wetter skim, you will raise that line up higher in the neck. If the skimmate is too wet or if you are having issues with it overflowing then you may need that transition line to be lower. It's heavily dependent on the load. In a heavy load, the skimmer will generate more foam and that necessates a lower level in the skimmer. Once the skimmer catches up and reduces the amount of dissolved organics, you will likely need to make an adjustment in the level inside the skimmer to fine tune it so it remains consistent.

autodave
01/31/2016, 07:20 PM
Thank you for the clarification. I have turned the nozzle out 4.5 turns, set my water level at 7 inches, and I am running the wedge 100% open, unfortunately now the skimmer just overflows at those settings.
It seems like everything is running proper with the skimmer and I have not upset my water chemistry at all. Any suggestions? I was just going to let it run.

slief
01/31/2016, 09:29 PM
Thank you for the clarification. I have turned the nozzle out 4.5 turns, set my water level at 7 inches, and I am running the wedge 100% open, unfortunately now the skimmer just overflows at those settings.
It seems like everything is running proper with the skimmer and I have not upset my water chemistry at all. Any suggestions? I was just going to let it run.

You could let it run like it is but I suspect you will need to lower your water level. If you decide to ride it out for a day, remove the drain plug in the collection cup so it can overflow back into the sump and not fill your cup. Like I said in my original reply to you. Open the volute to 4.5 turns and wait a day. That waiting a day part gives the skimmer a chance to settle down with the new setting. This helps avoid the overflowing like you are seeing now. Then you adjust the sump level so that the transition from bubbles to foam is at at the top of the threaded collar. I also told you that you will probably need to raise your sump level 1/2". You were at 6.25" before. That would mean 6.75" and not 7" but again, you make the first adjustment (nozzle) and let it settle in for a day. Then you make the sump level adjustment and you should do it incrementally as a little bit of sump level increase can make a substantial difference in the level inside the skimmer. The more you raise your sump level, the higher the water will rise in the skimmer and there will be a point at which it will overflow if you have it too deep. If you are overflowing, you have the sump level too high. Either way, I don't think you let the skimmer settle in for long enough before making the sump level adjustment. In the mean time, drop the sump level to 6.5" and leave it overnight. If you are worried about it overflowing, remove the drain plug from the collection cup so it can drain into the sump while it settles in. The foam in the skimmer should change over the next several hours anyways so adjustments you make now to your sump level will likely be a bit futile. I am however reasonably certain that at 6.5" you will be able to use your wedge pipe to adjust it up from there without needing to go past 1/2 closed on the wedge. That is speculation though because the amount of dissolved organics and your saility have a direct impact on that and no two tanks are the same.

You use the volute nozzle to create the most dense foam you can while keeping the skimmer as stable as possible. For the 150, that is generally around 4.5 turns out. The kind of foam that doesn't just create bubbles that burst at the surface but instead is slow churning and cloud like. Keep in mind that it takes dissolved organics to achieve that. A brand new tank will generally not have enough dissolved organics to produce great foam as the whole principle of a protein skimmer is based on foam fractioning which depends on there being adequate proteins in the water to make the bubbles stick together as they collect the proteins. Once you get the foam dialed in, then you use the sump level to get the water level inside the skimmer into the "ballpark" which is the base of the neck at the collar. From there you use the wedge pipe to adjust the level so that you are collecting skimmate in the cup. The higher you raise the water level, the wetter the skimmer which means it will be lighter in color. The lower the level in the neck, the drier and darker the skim will be. In our case, we are setting the skimmers nozzle to 4.5 turns out because I know that is pretty close to sweet spot for most tanks. Once we get that settled in and the sump level to the ballpark, then you can play with the nozzle a bit more to fine tune the foam if it even needs any fine tuning.

Any skimmer presents a bit of a learning curve and you are getting speed schooling here! The good thing about making these adjustments is that you will get a feel for what these adjustments do in a real hurry and I will help keep you informed but despite the overflow, rest assured you are on the right track and you/we will have that skimmer dialed in no time. Just take it slow so you can see the results of the incremental adjustments.


Ranger2706,
I hope you are taking notes because you and autodave have the same skimmer. :thumbsup:

ranger2806
02/01/2016, 02:59 PM
Thank you very much this has helped a ton

autodave
02/02/2016, 08:40 AM
I have been running my skimmer at 6.5 water depth, 4.5 turns out on the nozzle and the wedge pipe 100% open for the last 36 hours and it still continuously overflows. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks

slief
02/02/2016, 10:28 AM
I have been running my skimmer at 6.5 water depth, 4.5 turns out on the nozzle and the wedge pipe 100% open for the last 36 hours and it still continuously overflows. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks

You may need to lower the sump level more but the next thing I would check is to make sure there isn't salt creep in the Venturi port on the pump where the air line connects to the block. Also, if a snail or any debris made it into the pump impeller area, that could cause the issue too. Pull the airline off and remove the pump and look down into the port where the airline connects to the pump. If you see what build up in there, clean it with a tooth pick. If salt builds up in there, it has the same effect as closing the nozzle which sends more water into the skimmer. Also, look into the intake and make sure there isn't anything that made it into the pump. If there isn't, then open the nozzle a bit more or raise the skimmer 1/4". I'd probably raise the skimmer first. If you have a lot of dissolved organics in the system, that can drive the skimmer nuts until it catches up. The minimum depth for that skimmer is just under 6" and skimmers in general are very sensitive to water level. The smaller the skimmer, the more sensitive they are. As such, finding the right water level is critical. So double check the Venturi for salt creep, if there isn't any and nothing in the pump, then raise the skimmer up 1/4" or lower the sump level 1/4". If you can't raise the skimmer or lower the water level, then open the volute/nozzle 1/4 turn more and let me know what you find.

While I haven't asked this, I figure I might as well. Have you used any red slime removers or epoxy in your system recently or anything else? My guess is no but I figured I would ask.

biecacka
02/02/2016, 01:46 PM
Slief here is mine now. How's it look to you? It's on 31 according to the pump. In about 9.25 inches of water. Skim is good, could maybe be a little darker tho maybe?? I'm not sure.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/5EF8F2D3-156B-4E62-A340-CC1A6F6F1523.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_5EF8F2D3-156B-4E62-A340-CC1A6F6F1523.jpg

Corey

slief
02/02/2016, 02:56 PM
Slief here is mine now. How's it look to you? It's on 31 according to the pump. In about 9.25 inches of water. Skim is good, could maybe be a little darker tho maybe?? I'm not sure.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/5EF8F2D3-156B-4E62-A340-CC1A6F6F1523.mp4]http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_5EF8F2D3-156B-4E62-A340-CC1A6F6F1523.jpg

Corey

It looks OK.. Bubbles looking like I would expect from the higher pump speed. That said, my guess is that the skimmer has caught up with the load so you are probably just fine there though I prefer the lower speeds as I mentioned to you earlier but that may necessitate the higher sump level.

autodave
02/02/2016, 03:04 PM
After making that adjustment on the nozzle and seeing how much it overflowed, I actually disassembled the pump and inspected the volute, which was clean. I will double check it again tonight. I am sure my DOC's are rising since this skimmer really hasn't done much in the last 5 weeks.
The only thing I have added to my tank other than food and 2-part, is a frag glued down with superglue about 4 weeks ago. I do not use filter socks, GFO, carbon or biopellets. I have not done any painting in my house or anything similar. Trust me, I have been reefkeeping for over 20 yrs., I know what will set a skimmer off, lol. That's not to say I know it all, so I was considering putting my old skimmer back in and see how it reacts.
I understand what you are saying with the height but I feel I would need to raise the skimmer well more than a inch above what I have already done to get some control, so I am thinking that the water height is not the problem. I am thinking either it is a contaminate in the water or a air intake issue on the skimmer??... And I really do appreciate all of your help!

biecacka
02/02/2016, 03:27 PM
Could I have went with the dc180?
For the most part, I've reached my limit of fish-30. Now once my ATS gets growing, I can feed more which should increase some doc.
Some of my fish will eventually be larger tho, so I'm sure that'll help too.

Corey

slief
02/02/2016, 03:52 PM
After making that adjustment on the nozzle and seeing how much it overflowed, I actually disassembled the pump and inspected the volute, which was clean. I will double check it again tonight. I am sure my DOC's are rising since this skimmer really hasn't done much in the last 5 weeks.
The only thing I have added to my tank other than food and 2-part, is a frag glued down with superglue about 4 weeks ago. I do not use filter socks, GFO, carbon or biopellets. I have not done any painting in my house or anything similar. Trust me, I have been reefkeeping for over 20 yrs., I know what will set a skimmer off, lol. That's not to say I know it all, so I was considering putting my old skimmer back in and see how it reacts.
I understand what you are saying with the height but I feel I would need to raise the skimmer well more than a inch above what I have already done to get some control, so I am thinking that the water height is not the problem. I am thinking either it is a contaminate in the water or a air intake issue on the skimmer??... And I really do appreciate all of your help!

An air intake issue would be directly related to salt creep in the intake nozzle but as I told you, 6" sump depth isn't out of the realm of what is normal for that skimmer and 1/2" of depth can make a HUGE difference. If your dissolved organics are really high, you might need it even shallower until the organics are reduced. Check the air intake where it meets the pump and make sure there isn't any salt creep in there. Also make sure the venturi hose isn't getting pinched. The only time I have seen that is on one skimmer where the customer cut some tubing off and had the wedge pipe closed 75% or more.

If you have some egg crate laying around then place some under the skimmer to raise it up and give it a try. Given how much I have successfully helped others with this model skimmer, I am pretty certain that if salt creep isn't your issue then the sump level is.

slief
02/02/2016, 03:58 PM
Could I have went with the dc180?
For the most part, I've reached my limit of fish-30. Now once my ATS gets growing, I can feed more which should increase some doc.
Some of my fish will eventually be larger tho, so I'm sure that'll help too.

Corey

You were right at the minimum for this skimmer and right at the end for the other skimmer. You could have gone either way. Still, I think your skimmer is working. I just think it could be doing so more efficiently. The lower pump speeds work pretty well with that model which is why I suggested it in the first place. The lower pump speed will decrease power usage and create better contact time which will remove more DOC's as water passes through it. At the end of the day, the skimmer will still end up removing the same level of DOC's its just that the lower pump speed will do a better job of it and do so a bit drier since the bubbles won't be bursting as fast. There is however a direct correlation to sump levels and pump speeds and while there isn't a finite level based on pump speed, the lower the speed, the higher the sump level or more closed you need the wedge pipe to get the water up higher in the neck. If your reasonably happy with the way it's performing and want it drier, you could also lower the level in the neck slightly by opening the wedge pipe up a fraction or go back to the lower pump speeds. It's up to you.

biecacka
02/02/2016, 04:55 PM
When I first shopped around I thought the 180 would be out of the question and even asked a few retailers for my 240 gallon tank with that many fish in it. The wedge is 60% closed now, I could set it lower in the sump I suppose. If that will help. I would love to have it working more efficiently if possible. I'm all ears...

Corey

slief
02/02/2016, 06:12 PM
When I first shopped around I thought the 180 would be out of the question and even asked a few retailers for my 240 gallon tank with that many fish in it. The wedge is 60% closed now, I could set it lower in the sump I suppose. If that will help. I would love to have it working more efficiently if possible. I'm all ears...

Corey

I wouldn't close the wedge anymore. I would lower the skimmer in the sump and drop the power down some.

biecacka
02/03/2016, 12:07 AM
Ok. I dropped the speed down to 31 for tonight. I measured the water depth is 10.2inches. So I will find some couplings or something to lower it a tad bit more possibly. At least until my fish get larger and I start feeding 3-4 cubes a day for the larger fish.
Could the fact I run filter socks also be part of the reason for less solids to the skimmer. I'm changing them about 2-3 times a week keeping them fresh and trying to blow the rocks off to stir up debris.
Corey

autodave
02/03/2016, 06:41 PM
I dropped my water level to 6.25in. yesterday and it is still overflowing today. Should I go to 6in.? I also was planning to do a water change tonight, should I hold off or shouldn't it matter. Thanks

slief
02/03/2016, 07:17 PM
I dropped my water level to 6.25in. yesterday and it is still overflowing today. Should I go to 6in.? I also was planning to do a water change tonight, should I hold off or shouldn't it matter. Thanks

Yes. If you are absolutely certain that you don't have salt creep in your Venturi intake at the pump, then keep dropping it until the overflowing subsides. You can also try opening the volute up a little more but I would drop it first as you really shouldn't need to go past 4.5 turns.

UWUALineman
02/03/2016, 07:56 PM
If I may jump in Slief. I started adjusting my 150 pretty much from the volute closed and slowly worked my way out while leaving the wedge pipe wide open. I struggled immensely trying to dial mine in until I really choked off the air supply due to overflows. Surging. No performance etc.
The past few months have been nothing but solid performance since.

slief
02/03/2016, 11:59 PM
If I may jump in Slief. I started adjusting my 150 pretty much from the volute closed and slowly worked my way out while leaving the wedge pipe wide open. I struggled immensely trying to dial mine in until I really choked off the air supply due to overflows. Surging. No performance etc.
The past few months have been nothing but solid performance since.

Great to know and your contribution is more than welcome and very much appreciated. Any idea what you have the volute set to terms of how many full turns out? From my tests, the surging issue typically occurs when the volute is too closed. My testing here was done in a closed and controlled setup which I did some months back as I wanted to learn this particular skimmer. I found best results between 4 and 4.5 turns out. I also gathered that from some other people's results. In my tests, I setup a small tank with new salt water and added about 1/2 cup of skimmate to the water to insure there was sufficient DOC's. On the other hand, I don't know what the condition of the other peoples water was let alone the salinity but it seemed that around 4.5 turns was a starting point. That said, it would be really good to know approximately where you are set to but I'd hate to have you whack your skimmer out. On the flip side, every tank is different so adjusting the volute to find the sweet spot and best stability will be critical as no two tanks are alike. That is after all why the volute is adjustable.

Please feel free to share any tips you have. It's greatly appreciated. My hands on experience with the DC was kind of limited and like I said, it was in a very controlled enviornment.

UWUALineman
02/04/2016, 02:24 PM
I have my DC150 sitting in 7 3/4" of water depth right now. I'm guessing my volute is somewhere around 3 turns out with the wedge pipe wide open. I was able to manipulate my skimmer chamber depth and this was where I found my particular setup to be most effective without closing the wedge. I chose this route due to the surging issue I struggled with nonstop months back. I am using it on a 60 gallon cube with 4 fish so my bio load is very light. Salinity runs 1.025 to 1.026 consistently.

autodave
02/04/2016, 09:03 PM
Hi Slief, Last night I dropped my water level to 6" and it was still overflowing this morning so I dropped it to 5.75 and it stopped overflowing and has been consistent for the rest of the day. My level inside the skimmer is about half way up the cone. I started adjusting the wedge to bring the water level up in the skimmer but I don't think I can accomplish this without closing it more than 50%. I am still at 4.5 turns out.

slief
02/04/2016, 09:15 PM
Hi Slief, Last night I dropped my water level to 6" and it was still overflowing this morning so I dropped it to 5.75 and it stopped overflowing and has been consistent for the rest of the day. My level inside the skimmer is about half way up the cone. I started adjusting the wedge to bring the water level up in the skimmer but I don't think I can accomplish this without closing it more than 50%. I am still at 4.5 turns out.

That's good news. Sounds like you are really close. I would probably drain your collection cup and let it run for 24 hours and see if it starts collecting. If it doesn't you have a couple options as the level will likely need to be raised in the skimmer. Assuming you would have to close the wedge pipe too much, you could start turning the volute/nozzle inward (closing it) or raise the sump level ever so slightly. At this point, given the sump depth, I would probably opt for raising the sump level slightly as it accomplishes the same thing as closing the wedge pipe. The good thing is that I think you are close. If it were me, I would probably raise the sump level slightly. Then again, I do like to tinker and the volute can also have a big impact not only on the density of the foam but also on the level inside the skimmers. A slightl turn inward can have a big impact on the performance and level just as a slight turn out. That volute/nozzle is your tool to really fine tune the foam quality inside the skimmer and also has a direct impact on the water level. Your water level in the sump is your tool for getting the transition to foam level inside the skimmer into the ball park (base of the neck) while the wedge pipe is your tool for fine tuning the level in the skimmer.

When it was overflowing at 6", was it overflowing foam and what did the foam look like? Was it dense and thick? The kind of foam that will come out the collection cup lid vents and not turn to liquid? I ask because in some cases where there are a lot of organics in the water or something driving the skimmer nuts, allowing the skimmer to overflow into something like a 5 gallon bucket to collect the skimmate and switching the ATO water for salt water will allow the skimmer to remove whatever is driving it nuts. Kind of like using the skimmer to do a water change only the skimmer is primarily pulling out nasty stuff from the tank. Albeit really wet stuff. It just depends on how fast it would fill the cup and or bucket though and how watery it would be. If it took 24 hours to remove a few gallons, then that's fine. If it's something in the water that's driving it nuts, the condition will subside within a day or two if you are allowing the skimmer to remove it. I know I am throwing a lot at you right now but I figure the more information you get, the better the tools you have to make informed decisions.

autodave
02/04/2016, 10:24 PM
At 6" the cup would fill up in less than an hour, so I was leaving the drain plug off so it would drain in my sump. As of now I have a nice billowing foam but it just too low to collect anything. I think I will let it run a day then try 6" again.

slief
02/05/2016, 09:22 AM
At 6" the cup would fill up in less than an hour, so I was leaving the drain plug off so it would drain in my sump. As of now I have a nice billowing foam but it just too low to collect anything. I think I will let it run a day then try 6" again.

If anything, find a happy medium between 5.75 and 6". Or, if you go to 6" and it overflows which it probably will, let it remove the skim and use some salt water instead of fresh water for your top off so you can allow the skimmer to remove some of the DOC's in case it's something in your water.

autodave
02/06/2016, 01:54 PM
As of right now I have my skimmer in 5 7/8" of water, the nozzle 3.75 turns out and the wedge closed about 60-70%. I realize the wedge setting isn't ideal but it is producing a good foam head and I can probably start collecting some waste now.
It has been really sensitive about the height...at 6"depth, nozzle at 4.5 turns wedge fully open, it will most likely overflow. At 5 3/4 depth, nozzle at 4.5 turns, I have to just about close the wedge all the way to get the water height in the skimmer to move up.
I have also noticed that when closing the wedge pipe, it doesn't react much until I get to about 50% closed.
Here is a photo how it is looking:


http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff65/autodave/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_114538_zpsybjcxjat.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/autodave/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_114538_zpsybjcxjat.jpg.html)

slief
02/06/2016, 04:21 PM
As of right now I have my skimmer in 5 7/8" of water, the nozzle 3.75 turns out and the wedge closed about 60-70%. I realize the wedge setting isn't ideal but it is producing a good foam head and I can probably start collecting some waste now.
It has been really sensitive about the height...at 6"depth, nozzle at 4.5 turns wedge fully open, it will most likely overflow. At 5 3/4 depth, nozzle at 4.5 turns, I have to just about close the wedge all the way to get the water height in the skimmer to move up.
I have also noticed that when closing the wedge pipe, it doesn't react much until I get to about 50% closed.
Here is a photo how it is looking:


http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff65/autodave/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_114538_zpsybjcxjat.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/autodave/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_114538_zpsybjcxjat.jpg.html)



It's looking pretty good! I think you have the sump depth about right. You are correct in that it is very sensitive to sump level adjustments. The smaller the skimmer, the more sensitive the become. Now just use the volute to fine tune. You can compensate for the wedge pipe being more open by adjusting the volute but as long as you aren't experiencing surging, then you should be OK with the wedge being that far closed. The volute adjustments do have a direct impact on the level inside the skimmer. Also keep in mind that once your skimmer catches up and exports some of the dissolved organics, you will need to do a bit of fine tuning with the volute and or wedge pipe to adjust for the lower amount of dissolved organics as the foam head will likely drop a bit once it catches up.

himat
02/07/2016, 07:10 AM
hi
slief

update of DC200 settings

I have run this at 32w wedge pipe full open and water depth of 21.5cm (one week run)
this has produced more than twice when set at 30 from last time.
see pic below
341367
341368

slief
02/07/2016, 09:14 AM
hi
slief

update of DC200 settings

I have run this at 32w wedge pipe full open and water depth of 21.5cm (one week run)
this has produced more than twice when set at 30 from last time.
see pic below
341367
341368

Damn, that looks pretty good!

biecacka
02/09/2016, 08:56 AM
Ok, so I'm not sure if it is from my filter socks or not. But, I changed the one this morning and afterwards my skimmer went nuts overflowing. For 20 minutes it went haywire with a watery flow. I was my socks in a cap of bleach then run them thru 2 more cycles with no bleach or soap. When it settles down I might swap out socks to see if it happens again.

Corey

ReefClownMIA
02/09/2016, 09:19 AM
Ok, so I'm not sure if it is from my filter socks or not. But, I changed the one this morning and afterwards my skimmer went nuts overflowing. For 20 minutes it went haywire with a watery flow. I was my socks in a cap of bleach then run them thru 2 more cycles with no bleach or soap. When it settles down I might swap out socks to see if it happens again.

Corey

Yes, that would be your from something on your filtersocks - Occasionally I get the same, after filter sock change. I'm down to washing filtersocks with just hot water, no bleach. But I use mesh socks, not felt.

slief
02/09/2016, 09:35 AM
Ok, so I'm not sure if it is from my filter socks or not. But, I changed the one this morning and afterwards my skimmer went nuts overflowing. For 20 minutes it went haywire with a watery flow. I was my socks in a cap of bleach then run them thru 2 more cycles with no bleach or soap. When it settles down I might swap out socks to see if it happens again.

Corey

Yes, that would be your from something on your filtersocks - Occasionally I get the same, after filter sock change. I'm down to washing filtersocks with just hot water, no bleach. But I use mesh socks, not felt.

I use the bleach method and never have any issues like that but I hear of this issue all the time with all kinds of different skimmer. Filter socks can change the surface tension of the water in the sump which can cause a skimmer to go haywire. Especially if it's adjusted wet. This is very common but generally will subside within a few hours.

While I have particularly large sump, what I do is turn my socks inside out when I wash them which may be one factor that makes a difference. That helps to insure that waste gets out of the socks instead of being trapped in the socks during the wash cycle. They go into the wash with a pre wash and an extra rinse cycle and a very small amount of bleach. I also rinse the soap trays before starting the wash. While not all that critical, it's easy to do on my machine and just something I have always done for peace of mind. One thing you can try after they are completely air dried is to wet them in water before placing them back into the sump. That would help eliminate air in the socks and my help reduce surface tension changes from the new socks.

biecacka
02/09/2016, 12:16 PM
I wash mine inside out too. I actually thought of soaking them briefly in water before putting them online. This particular sock was dirty, so I wonder if flow through it was slower and when I switched them it caused a difference. I don't know but I opened my wedge 100% and turned the pump to 20 to keep it from overflowing anymore. It's back to normal now.
One good thing is it allowed me time to clean my neck on the skimmer really good!!:lol: an auto neck cleaner is on my list of things to buy. :)

Corey

autodave
02/11/2016, 10:25 PM
Hi Slief, I'm still struggling to get my skimmer dialed in. I keep getting it to where I think it is good, and it will skim great for a day or two then the level in the skimmer begins to slowly rise and eventually overflow.
Right now I have my skimmer in 5.5" of water, wedge fully open and the nozzle 10 turns out.
I had a question on the nozzle, is there a point when turning it, that it will not have any affect on tuning the skimmer?

slief
02/12/2016, 09:08 AM
Hi Slief, I'm still struggling to get my skimmer dialed in. I keep getting it to where I think it is good, and it will skim great for a day or two then the level in the skimmer begins to slowly rise and eventually overflow.
Right now I have my skimmer in 5.5" of water, wedge fully open and the nozzle 10 turns out.
I had a question on the nozzle, is there a point when turning it, that it will not have any affect on tuning the skimmer?

Yeah you're at the point now we're turning it out further will not have any impact. Five turns out would be about the max that you should go. I would start turning it in from starting at 4 turns out. Another member is seeing great stability at 3 1/2 turns out. As such I would work your way in from four turns and see what that does. Hold off on making some level adjustments until you let it settle in for several hours after making that adjustment & and only make a subtle sump adjustment because after you put your hands in the water and make the adjustment it's going to take some time to settle back down and may change over the course of 24 hours.

UWUALineman
02/12/2016, 04:43 PM
Dave I had to turn the air WAY back to get imy skimmer solid. I had the same issues. Set the sump level around 7 to 8 inches, open the wedge pipe all the way, and choke down the skimmer by turning the volute all the way in. Turn the volute out a full turn or so until you start to see a good mix of foam and don't touch it for a day. It may look like its way too low in the skimmer but it will settle in and rise a bit (also from oils on your skin will mess with the foam). Everyday check the skimmer and adjust the volute a bit and leave it. Patience doing this and you will hit the sweet spot.

Hellsangelbx
02/13/2016, 06:00 AM
Hey @Slief I'm building put my tank now and have BUbble King as the top skimmer. I'm doing a 150g tank with a 40g sump. Which Bubble King do you recommend?

slief
02/13/2016, 09:31 AM
Hey @Slief I'm building put my tank now and have BUbble King as the top skimmer. I'm doing a 150g tank with a 40g sump. Which Bubble King do you recommend?

I would suggest the Double Cone 180. It would be perfect for your size display/system.

Hellsangelbx
02/13/2016, 10:00 PM
Thanks Slief, it's greatly appreciated.

seregus
02/15/2016, 07:05 AM
Hi again,

So nothing helped out - it's just a constant flow of microbubles coming out of the skimmer.
I've replaced the pump by ordering a brand new one and it didn't change anything at all and it's already 2 weeks, so it's definitely not break-in period, I guess?

I'm trying to find a solution for micro-bubbles not coming into display, but this seems very strange, because before there was zero bubbles...

slief
02/15/2016, 09:39 AM
Hi again,

So nothing helped out - it's just a constant flow of microbubles coming out of the skimmer.
I've replaced the pump by ordering a brand new one and it didn't change anything at all and it's already 2 weeks, so it's definitely not break-in period, I guess?

I'm trying to find a solution for micro-bubbles not coming into display, but this seems very strange, because before there was zero bubbles...

Can you post some pictures of the skimmer in the sump so we can see your return chambers, water level etc? How many fish are in the tank and what is your salinity?

oldimpala
02/16/2016, 12:45 PM
Slief....

So, I ordered a RD3/Double-Cone 180 to replace my older 200 Deluxe Internal.

I've been a BK user for a while, so the wedge pipe/volute is second nature. Just looking for a starting point on water level/height in sump, turns of the volute, and motor watts.

Plus, just a thought... Why don't you start a sticky with some baselines for each common skimmer/some basic break-in adjustments/tips.

Might save you some keystrokes. :)

Thanks again for the advice picking it out, and looking forward to the new toy!

slief
02/16/2016, 03:47 PM
Slief....

So, I ordered a RD3/Double-Cone 180 to replace my older 200 Deluxe Internal.

I've been a BK user for a while, so the wedge pipe/volute is second nature. Just looking for a starting point on water level/height in sump, turns of the volute, and motor watts.

Plus, just a thought... Why don't you start a sticky with some baselines for each common skimmer/some basic break-in adjustments/tips.

Might save you some keystrokes. :)

Thanks again for the advice picking it out, and looking forward to the new toy!

I am working on that sticky. I was in part trying to use the other thread to collect some data on what other peoples settings are. Especially when I haven't used all the BK skimmers personally.

I'd suggest starting at around 8" sump depth and 22 watts. You may need to raise the sump level but that is a good starting point. If you need to close the wedge pipe more than 50% than I would raise the sump level further.

mikeatjac
02/19/2016, 06:41 AM
Hey autodave. I have the DC 150 too. I have talked to several owners and most are in 6-7" of water, volute 4-4.5 turns out and the wedge pipe barely closed.

I believe there has to be an environmental or salt creep issue in your case.

This is my cup after 4 days on a 80 display, medium stock.

withhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/Mikeatjax/image_zpsjvnyjhas.jpeg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/Mikeatjax/media/image_zpsjvnyjhas.jpeg.html)

autodave
02/19/2016, 09:06 AM
Thanks for the input Mike. My struggles continue with this skimmer. Lately I have been taking Lineman's advice and working my way out with the volute. Right now I am at 6" water depth, wedge fully open and volute at 1.25 turns out. I seem to get it skimming good and slowly opening the volute each day (I was up to 2 turns out) but 2-3 days later it starts to overflow. This has been happening at all the water levels I try. I can eliminate salt creep as an issue, as far as something with my water, I have not done anything to affect it. I do 25% water every 3 weeks. Visually my tank is healthy as it has ever been. I understand where I need to be with the adjustments, but getting there seems to be really difficult for me.

mikeatjac
02/19/2016, 01:57 PM
Dave I have owned many skimmers and I usually find if my skimmer goes nuts every few days, week or just periodically it is environmental. Sock changes, additives, food, oils.....

You said you were at 1.25 turns and 2 it over flows. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.


Very interested to hear where you end up.

hedehodo
02/22/2016, 01:22 PM
I have 80g net water volume 6 months old tank with heavy livestock. My nitrates is around 5ppm. I m also using prodibio biodigest and bioptim every other week. My skimmer is oversized Mini 180 v12 without RD3 pump(recommended for 400-700 liters).

In the beginning my skimmer is not producing thick skimmate. It's working in 25cm water depth until 2 weeks ago. I read the posts here and increase the water depth to 27cm. My skimmer is producing more quality bubbles now but not with enough skimmate. Last week it's produced maybe 1cm dark skimmate but not more. I have looked "mikeatjac" sent pictures and I say i had never get a skimmate like this. My wedge pipe is %70 closed to get the bubbles up to neck. If I adjust it to open a little bit then no skimmate. If i close it a little bit more so very wet skimmate I'm getting.

My live stock; (2 times feeding with pellets and flakes)
1xmedium Foxface rabbitfish
1xmedium Blue hippo tang
1xM-L Yellow Tang
3x firefish
1x yellow wrasse
5x chromis
1x ruby red dragonet
2x medium percula clowns
2x cleaner shrimp
6x conch snail

Return pump : 2000 lph
Using also filter socks (changing every week)
2x vortech Mp40 %30 reef crest mode
Phosban reactor /GFO/Carbon mixed
SG: 1,025

Any recommendations?

slief
02/22/2016, 07:26 PM
I have 80g net water volume 6 months old tank with heavy livestock. My nitrates is around 5ppm. I m also using prodibio biodigest and bioptim every other week. My skimmer is oversized Mini 180 v12 without RD3 pump(recommended for 400-700 liters).

In the beginning my skimmer is not producing thick skimmate. It's working in 25cm water depth until 2 weeks ago. I read the posts here and increase the water depth to 27cm. My skimmer is producing more quality bubbles now but not with enough skimmate. Last week it's produced maybe 1cm dark skimmate but not more. I have looked "mikeatjac" sent pictures and I say i had never get a skimmate like this. My wedge pipe is %70 closed to get the bubbles up to neck. If I adjust it to open a little bit then no skimmate. If i close it a little bit more so very wet skimmate I'm getting.

My live stock; (2 times feeding with pellets and flakes)
1xmedium Foxface rabbitfish
1xmedium Blue hippo tang
1xM-L Yellow Tang
3x firefish
1x yellow wrasse
5x chromis
1x ruby red dragonet
2x medium percula clowns
2x cleaner shrimp
6x conch snail

Return pump : 2000 lph
Using also filter socks (changing every week)
2x vortech Mp40 %30 reef crest mode
Phosban reactor /GFO/Carbon mixed
SG: 1,025

Any recommendations?

Your skimmer is way oversized and will not produce consistently on your sized system. You need to base your skimmer choice on display volume and not total system volume. You 180 skimmer will produce skimmate for a couple days and then slow down for a week and repeat the process once the organics build up enough to generate a foam head.. In order for that 180 skimmer to be remotely consistent on your system, you will need to run the skimmer really wet to get any kind of consistency out of it but expect to have light "tea" colored skimmate and not dark skimmate. That said, if your wedge is 70% closed, you need to increase the sump level so you don't have to close it that much. I would raise the sump level 1/2" more and open the wedge a bit more so it's not closed as much. The I higher than normal sump depth will be needed to keep that skimmer producing consistently on your size display.

hedehodo
02/23/2016, 02:32 AM
Your skimmer is way oversized and will not produce consistently on your sized system. You need to base your skimmer choice on display volume and not total system volume. You 180 skimmer will produce skimmate for a couple days and then slow down for a week and repeat the process once the organics build up enough to generate a foam head.. In order for that 180 skimmer to be remotely consistent on your system, you will need to run the skimmer really wet to get any kind of consistency out of it but expect to have light "tea" colored skimmate and not dark skimmate. That said, if your wedge is 70% closed, you need to increase the sump level so you don't have to close it that much. I would raise the sump level 1/2" more and open the wedge a bit more so it's not closed as much. The I higher than normal sump depth will be needed to keep that skimmer producing consistently on your size display.
Which skimmer do you recommend for this tank? Is dc180 w/rd3 is still oversized or mini 160 or dc150.

biecacka
02/23/2016, 09:06 AM
I would guess the DC150 would be your best bet. I'm sure Slief will hop in an give expert advice but I think the 150 would work great on that tank. These skimmers don't need oversized at all! They are work horses.

Corey

hedehodo
02/23/2016, 10:59 AM
I would guess the DC150 would be your best bet. I'm sure Slief will hop in an give expert advice but I think the 150 would work great on that tank. These skimmers don't need oversized at all! They are work horses.

Corey
Yeah that's what I am doing wrong with oversized skimmer. I found a second hand dc150 maybe I can buy it. But i will setup a new tank in a year or two which will be (~160Gal total volume inc. sump) double the size of my tank(80gal) . If I put dc150 to new tank it will be enough or I have to upgrade to dc180wRD3? I dont want to pay a fortune every year:)

slief
02/23/2016, 11:44 AM
Which skimmer do you recommend for this tank? Is dc180 w/rd3 is still oversized or mini 160 or dc150.

What is your display volume? If you display volume is under 80 gallons, then the Double Cone 180 will be too large. I like the double cone 180 better due to the RD3 pump but it would be oversized and you would need to run it really wet to keep it consistent. Size wise, the Double Cone 150 would be a better choice and more consistent once you get it tuned properly. The Double Cone 150 uses an adjustable volute that you turn to get the skimmer set correctly. It takes more time to fine tune and get it performing well. It's more sensitive to water level in the sump as well.

hedehodo
02/23/2016, 12:09 PM
What is your display volume? If you display volume is under 80 gallons, then the Double Cone 180 will be too large. I like the double cone 180 better due to the RD3 pump but it would be oversized and you would need to run it really wet to keep it consistent. Size wise, the Double Cone 150 would be a better choice and more consistent once you get it tuned properly. The Double Cone 150 uses an adjustable volute that you turn to get the skimmer set correctly. It takes more time to fine tune and get it performing well. It's more sensitive to water level in the sump as well.
My DT is 70gal brut or I can say 60gal net water volume. My sump level is very consistent but I heard so much about overflowing dc150. If I need to afraid about overflows of dc150 I can go to mini 160 route. I ask 180 w rd3 because I want to change my DT in a year or two to 120Gal net volume.

slief
02/23/2016, 12:40 PM
My DT is 70gal brut or I can say 60gal net water volume. My sump level is very consistent but I heard so much about overflowing dc150. If I need to afraid about overflows of dc150 I can go to mini 160 route. I ask 180 w rd3 because I want to change my DT in a year or two to 120Gal net volume.

The 180 would be much better suited for the 120 but that is a year or two down the line. The 150's can be sensitive and like I said, they are more difficult to tune but once you get them set, they are pretty solid skimmers. The mini 160 is also a good skimmer that would be well suited to your size tank. It isn't as adjustable like the Double Cone 150 which has the adjustable volute. Most people that have issues with them double cone 150's overflowing haven't found the sweet spot with their volute adjustment and sump level. Once you find that sweet spot for the volute and the sump level that works for your setup, they are very stable and solid skimmers. Generally the best volute adjustment for the double cone 150 is between 3 & 4.5 full turns out on the volute from fully closed and a sump level between 6 & 7".

hedehodo
02/24/2016, 11:14 AM
The 180 would be much better suited for the 120 but that is a year or two down the line. The 150's can be sensitive and like I said, they are more difficult to tune but once you get them set, they are pretty solid skimmers. The mini 160 is also a good skimmer that would be well suited to your size tank. It isn't as adjustable like the Double Cone 150 which has the adjustable volute. Most people that have issues with them double cone 150's overflowing haven't found the sweet spot with their volute adjustment and sump level. Once you find that sweet spot for the volute and the sump level that works for your setup, they are very stable and solid skimmers. Generally the best volute adjustment for the double cone 150 is between 3 & 4.5 full turns out on the volute from fully closed and a sump level between 6 & 7".
Thanks your fast replies slief. Today i found and buy a second hand dc150. Its like brand new:) Owner told me that he is running this skimmer in 8" sump depth with 3 nozzle turns. Should i start from 7" or below?

slief
02/24/2016, 11:23 AM
Thanks your fast replies slief. Today i found and buy a second hand dc150. Its like brand new:) Owner told me that he is running this skimmer in 8" sump depth with 3 nozzle turns. Should i start from 7" or below?

Try it there and see how it works. Every tank is different. Thinks like salinity, amount of fish waste, feeding, dissolved oxygen all have an impact on the skimmer so you will need to fine tune and see what works best.

hedehodo
02/29/2016, 09:56 AM
Try it there and see how it works. Every tank is different. Thinks like salinity, amount of fish waste, feeding, dissolved oxygen all have an impact on the skimmer so you will need to fine tune and see what works best.
I m running skimmer in 8" sump depth, 2.5 turned nozzle with fully open vedge pipe. Now its producing light yellow skimmate. I tried to open the nozzle to 3 turns but it's giving more wet skimmate. Overall I m very impressed the skimmer. it's very quiter than my old mini180.

Do you reccomend me to raise skimmer a little bit to 7.5" (19cm) or 7"?

slief
02/29/2016, 10:17 AM
I m running skimmer in 8" sump depth, 2.5 turned nozzle with fully open vedge pipe. Now its producing light yellow skimmate. I tried to open the nozzle to 3 turns but it's giving more wet skimmate. Overall I m very impressed the skimmer. it's very quiter than my old mini180.

Do you reccomend me to raise skimmer a little bit to 7.5" (19cm) or 7"?

I would try raising the skimmer 1/4" or lower the sump level 1/4" which should give you drier skim and darker skimmate. You don't want to raise it too much at a time as a little bit can make a big difference.

reefid
03/02/2016, 10:21 AM
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/pocky2301/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvzp1q5ej.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/pocky2301/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvzp1q5ej.jpg.html)

I have increased my water level to around 10" and wedge pipe is fully open, almost 24hrs it run on 10" depth. That is how the skimmer foaming like. Will have to wait my friend to make an acrylic stand . Skimmer will trial run on 9" depth as soon as I got the stand.

Thanks

Hendrik

slief
03/02/2016, 10:45 AM
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/pocky2301/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvzp1q5ej.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/pocky2301/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvzp1q5ej.jpg.html)

I have increased my water level to around 10" and wedge pipe is fully open, almost 24hrs it run on 10" depth. That is how the skimmer foaming like. Will have to wait my friend to make an acrylic stand . Skimmer will trial run on 9" depth as soon as I got the stand.

Thanks

Hendrik

That's not too bad. Obviously wet but given the light load relative to the skimmer size, it's expectable and acceptable. 9" will allow a bit more control via the wedge pipe and will keep the skimmer from being as sensitive to overflows like it would be at 10". Just keep an eye on it.

ReefClownMIA
03/02/2016, 12:42 PM
Will have to wait my friend to make an acrylic stand . Skimmer will trial run on 9" depth as soon as I got the stand.


Hendrik,

If you're on Facebook, check out the skimmer stand I've recently built... This is NOT a Royal Exclusiv product...
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/844772218979484/

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12688177_10207815597043538_4923488107168333296_n.jpg?oh=8990b7b31160ab426a6eb467a4fefa8c&oe=57511ED9

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12705552_10207838382333156_6910845823648168391_n.jpg?oh=63cca16393b343b3ef103ff5abd00f9f&oe=5760C8C0

hedehodo
03/02/2016, 04:19 PM
I would try raising the skimmer 1/4" or lower the sump level 1/4" which should give you drier skim and darker skimmate. You don't want to raise it too much at a time as a little bit can make a big difference.

I raised the skimmer to 7.5" (~19cm) from 8". Now it's producing a little more dry skimmate like green. Still not coffee like. I didn't touched the wedge pipe which is fully open and nozzle with 2,5 turns. I recognized that skimmer body full of big bubbles not producing fine bubbles.

Here is a picture of 3 days of skimming pictures.

http://i.hizliresim.com/Va6QbV.jpg

http://i.hizliresim.com/JA6Vmo.jpg

http://i.hizliresim.com/1vrp9j.jpg

slief
03/02/2016, 04:54 PM
I raised the skimmer to 7.5" (~19cm) from 8". Now it's producing a little more dry skimmate like green. Still not coffee like. I didn't touched the wedge pipe which is fully open and nozzle with 2,5 turns. I recognized that skimmer body full of big bubbles not producing fine bubbles.

Here is a picture of 3 days of skimming pictures.

http://i.hizliresim.com/Va6QbV.jpg

http://i.hizliresim.com/JA6Vmo.jpg

http://i.hizliresim.com/1vrp9j.jpg

The problem is that your skimmer is extremely oversized for your display. Correct me if I am wrong but you have a 66 gallon display plus your sump. If you want to see consistent skimmate, you will need to run it wet like you are and that won't produce very dark skimmate. From what I see in the last picture, it doesn't actually look to bad. Especially given how oversized this skimmer is for your display size. You can play with the volute adjustment a bit and see if you can darken the skimmate up by increasing the amount of air going into the skimmer via the volute. Since you don't have enough protein in the water for this size skimmer, I wouln't expect very dark skimmate in kind of quantityn though,. In the absence of enough proteins/dissolved organics for the skimmer, it will produce much larger bubbles that pop at the surface instead of generating good foam. I would try playing with the volute adjustment some and see if you find a bit better spot that makes a more solid foam head but I wouldn't expect much better than you have right now if you want to see dark skim. You can try lowering the sump level a bit too as that will dry out the skim a bit more but the drier you get it, the less skim you will see and the less consistent the skimmate production will be.

hedehodo
03/02/2016, 04:58 PM
The problem is that your skimmer is extremely oversized for your display. Correct me if I am wrong but you have a 66 gallon display plus your sump. If you want to see consistent skimmate, you will need to run it wet like you are and that won't produce very dark skimmate. You can play with the volute adjustment a bit and see if you can darken the skimmate up by increasing the amount of air going into the skimmer via the volute but since you don't have enough protein in the water for this size skimmer, I wouln't expect very dark skimmate in kind of quantity,. In the absence of enough proteins/dissolved organics for the skimmer, it will produce much larger bubbles that pop at the surface instead of generating good foam. I would try playing with the volute adjustment some and see if you find a bit better spot that makes a more solid foam head but I wouldn't expect much better than you have right now if you want to see dark skim. You can try lowering the sump level a bit too as that will dry out the skim a bit more but the drier you get it, the less skim you will see and the less consistent the skimmate production will be.
Slief please correct me if I am wrong "is double cone 150 is oversized for 66gal DT?" I changed my skimmer from mini180 to dc150 last week with your recommendation:)

slief
03/02/2016, 08:49 PM
Slief please correct me if I am wrong "is double cone 150 is oversized for 66gal DT?" I changed my skimmer from mini180 to dc150 last week with your recommendation:)

Oops.. No, the DC150 is perfect. You may want to go further out on the volute. Most run 3.5 go 4.6 turns out on the double cone 150 but it's really more about what works best for your system. Things like load, salinity, sump depth all play a critical role in what settings are best and every tank is different. I would suggest experimenting a bit more with the volute though. You can always go back to where you are now but the volute is an important tool for really fine tuning that skimmer.

hedehodo
03/03/2016, 05:23 AM
Slief, will I just turn the volute on or should I raise the skimmer 1/2" more?

I can start with volute adjustment.

slief
03/03/2016, 08:09 AM
Slief, will I just turn the volute on or should I raise the skimmer 1/2" more?

I can start with volute adjustment.

I'd probably start my adjusting the volute a little bit at a time. You don't want to make bug adjustments. Just very small ones but be prepared to raise your skimmer a bit too.

reefid
03/04/2016, 12:29 PM
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/pocky2301/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst6qjepaa.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/pocky2301/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst6qjepaa.jpg.html)

After 3days, still running with wedge pipe open full.

slief
03/04/2016, 01:19 PM
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/pocky2301/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst6qjepaa.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/pocky2301/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst6qjepaa.jpg.html)

After 3days, still running with wedge pipe open full.

Looking good!

urbaneks
03/16/2016, 03:24 PM
All,
I just recently purchased a SM200. Over the curse of the last week, I've been trading emails back and forth with Scott on optimizing my setup. The summary below is a day by day guide that I wrote based on my emails with Scott. You may find this helpful in getting your skimmer setup.

Bubble King Setup Guide by Day

Start with a Vinegar Bath
When you get the skimmer, I’d recommend running it in a vinegar bath for a few hours before you add it to the tank. This will significantly reduce the break-in time for you. The way I complete the vinegar bath is to fill a sink up with about 8” of water/vinegar, I like to use about 20% vinegar to 80% water. Set the skimmer in the sink and plug it in. I pull the drain plug on the skimmer cup so that whatever solution gets skimmed ends up back in the sink. I tune the skimmer to run pretty wet during the clean procedure. From there just let it run for a few hours. This is the same procedure I use every 6 months to clean my skimmer.

Mark your Wedge Pipe
Before you put the skimmer into operation, mark a position on the wedge pipe so that you know what is fully open and what is half closed. Half-closed is equal to a quarter turn on the wedge pipe. You can look through the skimmer and easily see the wedge position. I used some small pieces of tape to mark fully open and half closed. These two markings will be very important during your tuning of the skimmer.

Day 1-2
Start your skimmer in 8” of water at 30 watts on the pump and the wedge pipe fully open. Let it run this way for 2 full days. While tempted, don’t change any of the settings during these first 2 days. During this time you want to watch the line where bubbles transition to foam. Don’t confuse this with the line where water transitions to bubbles. The goal is to get the bubble to foam transition to happen right at or slightly above the white collar where the skimmer cup meets the skimmer body. How high this transition happens is directly related to the contaminants in your tank. If you tank is clean, the transition will likely be much lower than the target position. If your tank is dirty, the transition could happen higher than the target position.

Day 3
At this point, your skimmer should be broken in enough to start making adjustments without the fear of it overflowing the cup. If you are lucky enough to have your bubble to foam transition at the collar in 8” of water at 30 watts with the wedge wide open then your skimmer is tuned. I doubt this will be the case so here is where the adjustments take place. Your first adjustment will be to raise/lower the water level in the sump. Continue to run the pump at 30 watts with the wedge pipe wide open while you adjust the sump volume. For the sake of these instructions, let’s assume your bubble to foam transition is happening below the collar. (This is the most likely case) Raise the water in the sump ” at a time and let it run for a few hours before making another sump volume change. Again, your goal during these changes in sump volume is to get the bubble to foam transition happening at or just above the collar. Continue raising the sump volume ” at a time until you either get to 9” of water in your sump or the bubble to foam transition at/above the collar. Note, you are still set to 30 watts with the wedge wide open. If you hit 9” of sump volume and your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar let it run this way for a full day.

Day 4
If after running in 9” of water at 30 watts with the wedge wide open for a full day you are still not transitioning from bubbles to foam at or above the collar, your next adjustment will be the wedge pipe. Begin making very small adjustments (1/16th of a turn at a time) and let your skimmer run for a couple hours before making the next adjustment. Still, your goal here is to get the bubble to foam transition happening at or just above the collar. Continue this process until the bubble to foam transition is either at or above the collar or your wedge has been turned a 1/4th of a turn (this is the same as the wedge being half closed) If you reach turn on the wedge in 9” of water at 30 watts and your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar, let it run this way for the next day.

Day 5
If your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar, we are going to repeat the instructions from day 3. Raise the water in your sump ” at a time until you’ve either hit 10” of water volume or your bubble to foam transition is happening at or above the collar. Again, your pump is still running at 30 watts and your wedge is half closed. For me, I finally got the bubble to foam transition at the collar in 9.5” of water, at 30 watts and with the wedge closed. This is where I’m currently running and should be able to keep running from this point forward. From this point forward, only small adjustments will be made with the wedge if contaminant levels change in the tank. If I would have got to 10” of water, closed on the wedge and the bubble to foam was still not at or above the collar, I would have then started increasing the pump speed 1 watt at a time until the bubble to foam transition hit the collar.

In summary
The optimal pump speed for the SM200 is between 28-32 watts with 30 being the target speed. The optimal wedge pipe position is wide open or as close to wide open as you can get. The optimal sump volume is between 7” and 9”. You should only go over 9” when you can’t get the bubble to foam transition above the collar with the wedge half closed. You should not close your wedge more than . It’s always best to drive the bubble to foam transition line in the skimmer up using sump volume first, the wedge second and pump speed last.

slief
03/16/2016, 03:41 PM
All,
I just recently purchased a SM200. Over the curse of the last week, I've been trading emails back and forth with Scott on optimizing my setup. The summary below is a day by day guide that I wrote based on my emails with Scott. You may find this helpful in getting your skimmer setup.

Bubble King Setup Guide by Day

Start with a Vinegar Bath
When you get the skimmer, Id recommend running it in a vinegar bath for a few hours before you add it to the tank. This will significantly reduce the break-in time for you. The way I complete the vinegar bath is to fill a sink up with about 8 of water/vinegar, I like to use about 20% vinegar to 80% water. Set the skimmer in the sink and plug it in. I pull the drain plug on the skimmer cup so that whatever solution gets skimmed ends up back in the sink. I tune the skimmer to run pretty wet during the clean procedure. From there just let it run for a few hours. This is the same procedure I use every 6 months to clean my skimmer.

Mark your Wedge Pipe
Before you put the skimmer into operation, mark a position on the wedge pipe so that you know what is fully open and what is half closed. Half-closed is equal to a quarter turn on the wedge pipe. You can look through the skimmer and easily see the wedge position. I used some small pieces of tape to mark fully open and half closed. These two markings will be very important during your tuning of the skimmer.

Day 1-2
Start your skimmer in 8 of water at 30 watts on the pump and the wedge pipe fully open. Let it run this way for 2 full days. While tempted, dont change any of the settings during these first 2 days. During this time you want to watch the line where bubbles transition to foam. Dont confuse this with the line where water transitions to bubbles. The goal is to get the bubble to foam transition to happen right at or slightly above the white collar where the skimmer cup meets the skimmer body. How high this transition happens is directly related to the contaminants in your tank. If you tank is clean, the transition will likely be much lower than the target position. If your tank is dirty, the transition could happen higher than the target position.

Day 3
At this point, your skimmer should be broken in enough to start making adjustments without the fear of it overflowing the cup. If you are lucky enough to have your bubble to foam transition at the collar in 8 of water at 30 watts with the wedge wide open then your skimmer is tuned. I doubt this will be the case so here is where the adjustments take place. Your first adjustment will be to raise/lower the water level in the sump. Continue to run the pump at 30 watts with the wedge pipe wide open while you adjust the sump volume. For the sake of these instructions, lets assume your bubble to foam transition is happening below the collar. (This is the most likely case) Raise the water in the sump at a time and let it run for a few hours before making another sump volume change. Again, your goal during these changes in sump volume is to get the bubble to foam transition happening at or just above the collar. Continue raising the sump volume at a time until you either get to 9 of water in your sump or the bubble to foam transition at/above the collar. Note, you are still set to 30 watts with the wedge wide open. If you hit 9 of sump volume and your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar let it run this way for a full day.

Day 4
If after running in 9 of water at 30 watts with the wedge wide open for a full day you are still not transitioning from bubbles to foam at or above the collar, your next adjustment will be the wedge pipe. Begin making very small adjustments (1/16th of a turn at a time) and let your skimmer run for a couple hours before making the next adjustment. Still, your goal here is to get the bubble to foam transition happening at or just above the collar. Continue this process until the bubble to foam transition is either at or above the collar or your wedge has been turned a 1/4th of a turn (this is the same as the wedge being half closed) If you reach turn on the wedge in 9 of water at 30 watts and your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar, let it run this way for the next day.

Day 5
If your bubble to foam transition is still below the collar, we are going to repeat the instructions from day 3. Raise the water in your sump at a time until youve either hit 10 of water volume or your bubble to foam transition is happening at or above the collar. Again, your pump is still running at 30 watts and your wedge is half closed. For me, I finally got the bubble to foam transition at the collar in 9.5 of water, at 30 watts and with the wedge closed. This is where Im currently running and should be able to keep running from this point forward. From this point forward, only small adjustments will be made with the wedge if contaminant levels change in the tank. If I would have got to 10 of water, closed on the wedge and the bubble to foam was still not at or above the collar, I would have then started increasing the pump speed 1 watt at a time until the bubble to foam transition hit the collar.

In summary
The optimal pump speed for the SM200 is between 28-32 watts with 30 being the target speed. The optimal wedge pipe position is wide open or as close to wide open as you can get. The optimal sump volume is between 7 and 9. You should only go over 9 when you cant get the bubble to foam transition above the collar with the wedge half closed. You should not close your wedge more than . Its always best to drive the bubble to foam transition line in the skimmer up using sump volume first, the wedge second and pump speed last.


That is a very well put together set of instructions! Thank you for the great contribution.

For anybody who is interested, here are some guidelines for the pump speeds that can be applied to the other Bubble King skimmer models and size with the RD3 pumps.

This is based on skimmer size and not specific to model numbers as the internal volumes between the Double Cones, Supermarin and Deluxe skimmers are very similar if you are comparing a 250mm skimmer of each class.

180 size skimmers:
RD3 pump best set to 20-23 watts

200 Sized Skimmers as noted above:
RD3 pump best set to 28-30 watts

250 Sized Skimmers:
RD3 Pump best set to 36-40 watts (I run my SM250 at 38 watts).

300 Sized Skimmers with Single RD3 60w pump
Best set to 55-60 watts but results may vary.

The idea is that you are setting the pump to achieve the most dense foam possible. The different sized skimmer bodies necessitate different flow requirements. The smaller the body, the less flow needed where as the larger bodies need increased flow. The slower the setting, the greater the contact time.

The RD3 pumps strike a perfect balance between air and water ratio so finding the best setting for the pump insures best foam quality. Things such as salinity and amount of dissolved organics (fish load) have a direct impact on what is "ideal". Thus there is a bit of a range in there.

roni
03/19/2016, 05:01 PM
I'm hoping someone has some ideas.

I have a SM300 on a 300ish gallon system. It's the one with 2 non controllable pumps (older model).

One of the pumps was shut off about a week ago. I opened it up, saw a little piece of debris in the impeller (very small) and assumed that caused the shut down. Cleaned everything, put back together and then plugged in again. Ran fine for about 24 hours and then shut off again. I regularly clean both pumps about every 3-4 months (just clean out any debris but don't run any vinegar or anything else). I've had the skimmer for about 3 years now without any problems. The manual talks about not using any acid to clean but I assume a diluted vinegar solution should be fine? Just wanted to check before possibly damaging my pump.

My guess is that there is a little calcific deposition that just needs to be cleaned but any other ideas?

slief
03/19/2016, 05:20 PM
I'm hoping someone has some ideas.

I have a SM300 on a 300ish gallon system. It's the one with 2 non controllable pumps (older model).

One of the pumps was shut off about a week ago. I opened it up, saw a little piece of debris in the impeller (very small) and assumed that caused the shut down. Cleaned everything, put back together and then plugged in again. Ran fine for about 24 hours and then shut off again. I regularly clean both pumps about every 3-4 months (just clean out any debris but don't run any vinegar or anything else). I've had the skimmer for about 3 years now without any problems. The manual talks about not using any acid to clean but I assume a diluted vinegar solution should be fine? Just wanted to check before possibly damaging my pump.

My guess is that there is a little calcific deposition that just needs to be cleaned but any other ideas?

Sounds like resistance in the impeller shaft.

At the base of the impeller shaft is what is referred to as a bearing. This bearing doesn't actually spin. Instead it provides support the impeller just below the magnet. This bearing is supposed to be seated in the motorblock at the bottom of the magnet cavity. It's held in place with an o-ring. The bearing is often a neglected item when it comes to regular pump cleaning and it tends to build up calcium in the little hole that supports the bottom of the impeller shaft. Eventually that bearing will stick the impeller shaft which causes a big issue and can burn the motorblock out. If, when you remove the impeller from the motor, the bearing is stuck the shaft, that is a sign of an issue and that will prevent the impeller from spinning and it will also lead to premature failure of the motorblock. Soaking the impeller in hot vinegar will help un bond the bearing from the shaft. Otherwise some force may be needed to separate the two.

The shaft needs to spin freely in the bearing. Once the bearing is clean inside and out, I suggest slipping it over the end of the impeller shaft to make sure it spins freezing. Then the bearing should be reinserted into the block insuring that it is properly seated. You don't slip the bearing over the shaft and then put the impeller into the block. Doing that will not seat the bearing properly. There is a little slot that the o-ring slips into within the bearing cavity at the base of the motorblock. You first insert the bearing into the motorblock making sure it's seated in the cavity properly and once the bearing is in place, you then install the impeller and put the pump back together.

Take a look at page 7 and 8 of the manual below. Those pages cover removal and installation of the bearing. If the impeller doesn't spin freely in the bearing or if the bearing is seized to the impeller shaft, that will cause the impeller to stop spinning. In your case, I suspect it could just be some calcium build up in the bearing orifice.

http://royalexclusiv.com/images/content/bk_sm/eng/bk_sm_operating_maintenance_eng.pdf


When you clean the pump and impeller in vinegar, you should also remove the bearing and clean it as well following the above steps. There is one more bearing between the magnet and impeller that is part of the plastic shield. That obviously should spin freezing on the impeller shaft too. Once reassembled, it the issue continues to happen where the impeller stops spinning, then the issue is likely the motor block failing. The only other thing to look at is the magnet on the impeller shaft. The magnet is permanently bonded to the shaft. In some rare cases, the magnet can slip on the shaft. If the magnet rotates on the shaft or if there is play in the magnet on the impeller shaft, that that can be the root cause of your issue. The magnet needs to be firmly affixed to the impeller shaft.

Hope that helps. Check the stuff above and report back.

roni
03/20/2016, 08:55 AM
You're the man! So, that bearing is stuck to the impeller. I put everything in a 1/3 diluted vinegar bath and am planning for an hour. Any downside to doing a regular 1 day soak in that dilution? I'm just a little leery with all the statements about not using HCl, which is obviously much stronger then vinegar.

I do it for my tunzes and ecottechs but wasn't sure if anything in the rd pumps could get damaged.

slief
03/20/2016, 10:10 AM
You're the man! So, that bearing is stuck to the impeller. I put everything in a 1/3 diluted vinegar bath and am planning for an hour. Any downside to doing a regular 1 day soak in that dilution? I'm just a little leery with all the statements about not using HCl, which is obviously much stronger then vinegar.

I do it for my tunzes and ecottechs but wasn't sure if anything in the rd pumps could get damaged.

I would stick with straight vinegar. I never dilute it and always use straight vinegar for cleaning my pumps. It's perfectly safe. Those bearings can be a pain to free when the stick to the shaft so I wouldn't bother with diluting the vinegar. As for HCL, many use it but I don't as there really isn't a need to. If you heat the vinegar up, it will help it penetrate quicker and better.

roni
03/21/2016, 08:58 PM
So, the bearing came off the impeller pretty easily and rotated smoothly around the impeller shaft. put it back together, putting the bearing in first and then pushing the washer on. Should the washer be pushed onto the bearing or just sit on it loosely? From the pictures, it looks like it should be pushed onto the bearing.

Ran the pump. Shut off again. I then took it apart and double checked everything and connected again. It turned on fine but the pump sounds louder then the main rd pump.

I turned it off. The magnet is well attached and the other bearing closer to the impeller looks fine.

I'm at a loss. Any thoughts?

thanks again for your help.

slief
03/21/2016, 10:19 PM
So, the bearing came off the impeller pretty easily and rotated smoothly around the impeller shaft. put it back together, putting the bearing in first and then pushing the washer on. Should the washer be pushed onto the bearing or just sit on it loosely? From the pictures, it looks like it should be pushed onto the bearing.

Ran the pump. Shut off again. I then took it apart and double checked everything and connected again. It turned on fine but the pump sounds louder then the main rd pump.

I turned it off. The magnet is well attached and the other bearing closer to the impeller looks fine.

I'm at a loss. Any thoughts?

thanks again for your help.

The washer?? Care to post a picture? I think that washer you are speaking of goes on the base of the magnet and is typically bonded there. The next thing I would look at is the magnet and check it for swelling.

roni
03/21/2016, 10:30 PM
sorry, i mean the rubber o-ring. that should be pushed down so that the bearing doesn't fall out when the pump is turned upside down? I can take a pic but to my eye, it looks like the pic from the manual. The other option is to put the rubber o-ring on top of the bearing but that doesn't seat the bearing.

thanks

slief
03/21/2016, 11:52 PM
sorry, i mean the rubber o-ring. that should be pushed down so that the bearing doesn't fall out when the pump is turned upside down? I can take a pic but to my eye, it looks like the pic from the manual. The other option is to put the rubber o-ring on top of the bearing but that doesn't seat the bearing.

thanks

That o-ring should sit in a groove in the bearing. In the bearing cavity is another groove that the o-ring should slip into when you press the bearing into the cavity. A piece of thin PVC pipe that has in ID that is smaller than the outside of the bearing diameter can be a useful tool for inserting the bearing into place. I think thick walled 1/2" PVC would work for that. The bearing should sit about flush with the bearing cavity opening. If you are getting noise, it's likely something is rubbing. If the bearing isn't seated down far enough, the face of the needle wheel could rub the volute/pump cover. If the bearing isn't seated flat, the magnet could rub the inside of the motor block. There is also a bearing in the shield cover that sits between the needle wheel and the magnet. That too needs to rotate smoothly. Lastly is the end of the impeller shaft that goes into the bearing. It needs to be clean and smooth. Some Scotch Brite or very fine sand paper can be useful in cleaning up any roughness on the end of the shaft that sits in the bearing.

danrobberg
03/25/2016, 10:23 PM
Scott,
After a few days my skimmer production tends to slow doe I still get a little foam but not a lot of it overflows into the collection cup. If I take my finger and plug the air intake for 3-4 seconds and then let go it starts to produce a very thick foam that overflows into the cup at a much much higher rate. What do you think causes this and does it need to be tuned differently? My valute pipe is about 3/4 open and I run at 30-31 watts. Double cone 180. Lightly stocked at the moment 110 gallon total system. Can't remember water height at the moment but it is whatever you recommended to me before. Thanks,

Dan

slief
03/26/2016, 09:36 AM
Scott,
After a few days my skimmer production tends to slow doe I still get a little foam but not a lot of it overflows into the collection cup. If I take my finger and plug the air intake for 3-4 seconds and then let go it starts to produce a very thick foam that overflows into the cup at a much much higher rate. What do you think causes this and does it need to be tuned differently? My valute pipe is about 3/4 open and I run at 30-31 watts. Double cone 180. Lightly stocked at the moment 110 gallon total system. Can't remember water height at the moment but it is whatever you recommended to me before. Thanks,

Dan

Your load being light is why the skimmer slows down after a few days. That is normal if there isn't enough dissolved organics in the water to maintain a consistent foam head. Running the skimmer more wet by raising the water level in body will help keep it more consistent. You can close your wedge pipe slightly to accomplish that.

Plugging the Venturi port sends more water into the skimmer which raises the water level. That pushes all the foam into the neck up which will result in an overflow. You might try slowing the pump down more. 30-31 watts is a good speed for a 200 sized skimmer but is on the high side for the 180 IMO. I would drop it down to 23 or 25 watts. That will allow more contact time and thicker foam. You will need to raise the water level in the skimmer though and might need to raise you sump level so you don't have to go nuts closing the wedge pipe.

That said, if you are happy with the foam quality where it's at, just raise the water level some but realize that it will be more sensitive with that much flow going though and may overflow easier as a result.

Take a look at Urbaneks post above and my comments just below it (posts 184 & 185). It might give you some more insight into fine tuning the skimmer.

fbodykiller
03/26/2016, 04:08 PM
I have a BK mini 160 that has been running in my system for about 3 months. I have raised the skimmer section from 7.5-9" of water trying to get the skimmer to skim dryer. Any reccomendations? Thanks in advance.

fbodykiller
03/26/2016, 04:18 PM
By the way my system is 75 gallon mixed reef

slief
03/26/2016, 05:21 PM
I have a BK mini 160 that has been running in my system for about 3 months. I have raised the skimmer section from 7.5-9" of water trying to get the skimmer to skim dryer. Any reccomendations? Thanks in advance.

If the sump was 7.5" deep from the bottom of the skimmer to the sump level surface and the skimmer was skimming to wet, you would need to lower the water level a bit or raise the skimmer up to dry the skim out. I would suggest lowering the water level 1/4" at a time until you find the sweet spot in terms of the wet or dry skim you are after. A little adjustment can make a big difference. If you increased the depth (raising the skimmer section) from 7.5" to 9", then you would end up making it skim even wetter. If your wedge pipe is closed, opening the wedge pipe a bit will help to dry the skim out some.

fbodykiller
03/26/2016, 08:37 PM
If the sump was 7.5" deep from the bottom of the skimmer to the sump level surface and the skimmer was skimming to wet, you would need to lower the water level a bit or raise the skimmer up to dry the skim out. I would suggest lowering the water level 1/4" at a time until you find the sweet spot in terms of the wet or dry skim you are after. A little adjustment can make a big difference. If you increased the depth (raising the skimmer section) from 7.5" to 9", then you would end up making it skim even wetter. If your wedge pipe is closed, opening the wedge pipe a bit will help to dry the skim out some.

Thanks Sleif!
Should I start from scratch at 7.5" water level and open the wedge pipe?

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 09:07 AM
Scott,

A little help is needed, my tank is about 120gallon, the dc180 is sitting 8.5" in the sump, if I run the pump at 26W I'm not getting any foam at all. I have tried all the setting that you have suggested for the others like raising the sump level, closing the wedge pipes, cleaning the pump etc.

I have the dc180 for few months already, and I have to run it at 50W to have foam overflow to the cup, is there anything wrong with the pump that seems like produce very little bubbles at 26W as shown in the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8TbWF6uHQ

Thanks.

ReefClownMIA
03/27/2016, 09:32 AM
Scott,



A little help is needed, my tank is about 120gallon, the dc180 is sitting 8.5" in the sump, if I run the pump at 26W I'm not getting any foam at all. I have tried all the setting that you have suggested for the others like raising the sump level, closing the wedge pipes, cleaning the pump etc.



I have the dc180 for few months already, and I have to run it at 50W to have foam overflow to the cup, is there anything wrong with the pump that seems like produce very little bubbles at 26W as shown in the video?



Thanks.



Multiple factors come to play, what is your salinity level? Have you fed, dose aminos etc.

You could raise the water level a little bit, and bring the pump wattage up to around 30w, close the wedge pipe some more.

The skimmer needs DOCs to work efficiently, how heavy is your fish load?
Do you run media reactors?

I run a DC180 in my 110gal mixed reef, still light fish load. About 6.75" dump depth, wedge pipe 2/3 closed, 26-27w.

Run wet:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/38befdecb5079e45067974ee7f7549a3.jpg

Run dry:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/1fbdf6bb5a4fe54fb15a2b52f0605691.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/df0a9cf61aaafc816b51b468d77e6c10.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/c382290b80e83ea472401a661df90f8b.jpg

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 09:58 AM
Thanks for the quick reply, I have a fully stocked sps tank with 15 fishes (clowns, butterfly, tang, anthias) I feed 2 times / day frozen and flake and other supplement for corals.

I do not run any media filter, just a ATS for reducing NP.
Salinity 1.026

I just have the pump set to 30W and closing the pipe to 2/3.

I'm just wondering is there any fault with my pump, it seems my one produce fewer bubbles compare to the others

ReefClownMIA
03/27/2016, 10:05 AM
Depending on the food you feed, oils in the food may affect the surface tension and shut the skimmer down.

However, before we go that route, I'd like you to check a couple things.
1. Pull the silencer off the top of the stand pipe, and see if without it the skimmer fills with more air
A. If it does, open the silencer and see if the foam is restricting the internal pipes in the silencer chamber
B. If it does not, place it back
2. Check the silicone air hose, I've seen one that had been kinked and stuck together, limiting the amount of air it passes. If you loosen the set screw and lift the stand pipe, you can remove the entire hose from the stand pipe.
A. If it's kinked and stuck together, "massaging" the hose releases the kink usually.
3. Remove the Nozzle and make sure there is no obstruction in the air line nipple.

*4. From factory, the silicone air line hose comes shipped with some extra ... It's pretty long. I've seen some folks push the extra into the stand pipe, causing it to kink and restrict. Just in case yours is kinked inside the stand pipe, tug on it out of the stand pipe until it is firm(silencer holds it). You may find at this time that it kinks in front of the pump. Check this. Trim as needed.

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 10:28 AM
I have checked the silicone air hose before and all seems to be good. The air hose no kinked inside and outside the pipe also.

Thanks.

ReefClownMIA
03/27/2016, 10:38 AM
In that case, can you suspend feeding for 36-48h's and see if the skimmer will start to produce and stable out?
Whenever I feed, my skimmer essentially shuts down for a couple of hours before it is back to normal operation. If you feed frequently, this could keep your skimmer shut down.

slief
03/27/2016, 10:40 AM
I have checked the silicone air hose before and all seems to be good. The air hose no kinked inside and outside the pipe also.

Thanks.

From what I can tell, the pump is producing good flow and air. 15 fish is a pretty light load. Especially given you are running an ATS. Even though you feed twice a day, that isn't a lot of waste/proteins in the water. A heavy load would be upwards of 1/2" of fish per gallon.

My suggestion would be to raise your sump level and inch or so and see what that does. That will get the foam up into the neck if not closer to it. Since you have a lighter load, running the pump at a higher speed will help raise water level but the best solution is to raise your sump level and keep the pump around 26 watts. The slower flow will result in better contact time. You might end up needing to run at 30 watts but I think with the correct water level in the sump, the lower wattage will produce better results. Keep in mind that there is no "correct" sump level. Every tank is different and it's the presence of enough dissolved organics that helps the skimmer produce higher foam levels in the body. A higher load will result in the foam being higher than a system with a lower load. As such, use your sump level to adjust the foam level in the skimmer. I would do so with the wedge pipe wide open or close to it and continue to adjust the sump level a little at a time until you find the sweet spot where you have the transition from bubbles to foam at the collar of the neck. Then use the wedge pipe to fine tune.

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the help, will try to raise the sump level and see if any help.

slief
03/27/2016, 10:47 AM
Thanks Sleif!
Should I start from scratch at 7.5" water level and open the wedge pipe?

I like to use the water level in the sump to adjust the water level in the skimmer while leaving the wedge pipe open as much as possible. On the smaller body skimmers that don't have as much flow as their larger counterparts, having the wedge pipe wide open when you do your initial sump level adjustment isn't as critical so if you want to keep it closed partially, that's up to you.

slief
03/27/2016, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the help, will try to raise the sump level and see if any help.

Glad to help. I am certain the sump level will make a big difference. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. If you want to keep the wedge partially closed so you don't have to raise the sump level as much, that isn't a big deal. Just try to avoid closing it more than 50-60% at final tuning. The wedge is really a tool for fine tuning from wet to dry skim.

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 11:00 AM
Just recorded another video with wedge pipes fully open,pump at 26w and sump raised to 9.5", does the amount of bubbles look normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScB1_yGU_rM

slief
03/27/2016, 11:36 AM
Just recorded another video with wedge pipes fully open,pump at 26w and sump raised to 9.5", does the amount of bubbles look normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScB1_yGU_rM


The bubbles look fine. You are producing decent foam. Give it a few hours to settle in then try using the wedge pipe to get the transition from bubbles to foam up into the neck. If you need to close the wedge a bit more than half, I wouln't worry about it unless you decide to raise the sump a bit more. 6 of this, a half dozen of the other. I think you are close.

uFnEC
03/27/2016, 11:42 AM
OK. Just making sure the pump is not in fault, as I always think the pump is somehow faulty.

slief
03/27/2016, 01:36 PM
OK. Just making sure the pump is not in fault, as I always think the pump is somehow faulty.

No.. Everything looks just fine to me. I don't see any pump performance issues there. It looks like what I would expect to see at 26 watts. Your foam actually looks pretty good. Just need to get that level up and you should be just fine. The devil is in the details or in this case, the fine tuning. Just a matter of getting the foam up into the neck and it will be perform well!

As Marco mentioned earlier, your feedings may also be impacting the skimmer performance due to oils and stuff in the food. That can impact the foam head for hours or more on smaller systems. Especially if you are feeding multiple times a day and mysis is the worst offender when it comes to foods that impact the skimmer. Once you get your level set, the feeding will have less of an impact. This assuming the food is impacting your skimmer performance. In looking at the video, your skimmer looks awfully clean for a 3 month old skimmer. How often are you cleaning the collection cup and neck? If you are using soap and water, to clean the neck, or scrubbing it, that will also cause the skimmer to go through a bit of break in period as it builds up a slime coating in the neck. That's one of the reasons why many of us prefer neck cleaners as you don't need to clean the neck which keeps the skimmer performing much more consistently.

biecacka
03/28/2016, 06:09 PM
Scott how does this look?
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_E809BBB2-A0D2-459E-B85A-E4D2E7092513.jpg (http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/E809BBB2-A0D2-459E-B85A-E4D2E7092513.mp4)

I have it now running in 10.25 inches of water, 31 speed and pipe closed 80%. Should I drop it lower in the water?

Corey

slief
03/28/2016, 06:18 PM
Scott how does this look?
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/th_E809BBB2-A0D2-459E-B85A-E4D2E7092513.jpg (http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/E809BBB2-A0D2-459E-B85A-E4D2E7092513.mp4)

I have it now running in 10.25 inches of water, 31 speed and pipe closed 80%. Should I drop it lower in the water?

Corey

It looks good to me. How's the skimmate quality & consistency? That would be the biggest determining factor. If it's working well, then I'd leave it. If you increase your load or want to skim drier, you can open the wedge pipe more.

biecacka
03/28/2016, 06:42 PM
It's dark in color. Stinks to high heavens :lol:

Corey

ReefClownMIA
03/28/2016, 07:11 PM
It's dark in color. Stinks to high heavens :lol:

Corey

Then you're good! :frog::lol::ape:

slief
03/28/2016, 07:33 PM
Then you're good! :frog::lol::ape:

I agree! :thumbsup:

uFnEC
03/29/2016, 12:14 AM
No.. Everything looks just fine to me. I don't see any pump performance issues there. It looks like what I would expect to see at 26 watts. Your foam actually looks pretty good. Just need to get that level up and you should be just fine. The devil is in the details or in this case, the fine tuning. Just a matter of getting the foam up into the neck and it will be perform well!

As Marco mentioned earlier, your feedings may also be impacting the skimmer performance due to oils and stuff in the food. That can impact the foam head for hours or more on smaller systems. Especially if you are feeding multiple times a day and mysis is the worst offender when it comes to foods that impact the skimmer. Once you get your level set, the feeding will have less of an impact. This assuming the food is impacting your skimmer performance. In looking at the video, your skimmer looks awfully clean for a 3 month old skimmer. How often are you cleaning the collection cup and neck? If you are using soap and water, to clean the neck, or scrubbing it, that will also cause the skimmer to go through a bit of break in period as it builds up a slime coating in the neck. That's one of the reasons why many of us prefer neck cleaners as you don't need to clean the neck which keeps the skimmer performing much more consistently.

I clean the cup every 2 weeks. I have now set to 30W, raised the sump to about 10" stopped feeding for a day, let see how it perform later.

Thanks.

Pseudo69
03/29/2016, 04:25 PM
I have been running my Double Cone 180 for a year and even though the skimmate was dark green (because of the spirulina feeding) I never thought it was taking out all of the gunk in the tank. I just happened upon this thread and changed the way the skimmer was set up (7 1/2" water depth on a stand with wedge pipe 3/4 closed) to removing the stand, opening the wedge pipe and lowering my wattage to 26w. Within 1 hour I was getting a nice thick smelly foam head.

Great thread

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/Brugal_photos/Multiple%20Reef%20tanks/Reef%20Equipment/20160329_171343_zpsan7xkn6g.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Brugal_photos/media/Multiple%20Reef%20tanks/Reef%20Equipment/20160329_171343_zpsan7xkn6g.jpg.html)

Plus the stand was covering some really nasty detritus!! I think I am going to need that neck cleaner soon :)

Thanks Slief

biecacka
04/17/2016, 06:30 PM
Redid my rockwork, and put some rocks in my sump. When do I this I raised my skimmer back up to 9.5 inches of water. It was in 10.75, in doing so I have adjusted the water level and speed of the skimmer, it's working hard. I am running it a bit wet as the 25 or so fish I have in my tank aren't enough of a load for it. It's a beast!

Corey

hedehodo
04/22/2016, 07:22 AM
my dc150 after 6 days of run. Volute in 3 turns and vedge pipe fully open in 18.5cm sump depth.

Is it good?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160422/763999cf6f90b14b7e822e62d4a90cfd.jpg

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

slief
04/22/2016, 12:00 PM
my dc150 after 6 days of run. Volute in 3 turns and vedge pipe fully open in 18.5cm sump depth.

Is it good?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160422/763999cf6f90b14b7e822e62d4a90cfd.jpg

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Looks great to me.. Still breaking in too.

biecacka
04/29/2016, 09:22 PM
Scott what do you think of 33 speed on my pump for the dc200. I raised it back to the recommended depth but in doing so had to close the wedge and run the pump hard. Is it ok or should I run it deeper. It gets a nice foamy head but doesn't pull a ton. Not a lot to pull right now with only 25 fish in there and over half are smaller fish.

Corey

urbaneks
04/29/2016, 09:32 PM
Scott what do you think of 33 speed on my pump for the dc200. I raised it back to the recommended depth but in doing so had to close the wedge and run the pump hard. Is it ok or should I run it deeper. It gets a nice foamy head but doesn't pull a ton. Not a lot to pull right now with only 25 fish in there and over half are smaller fish.

Corey



Realize I'm not Scott but I'm curious as to what your phosphates and nitrates are at? Perhaps there is just not much to skim.

slief
04/30/2016, 12:56 AM
Scott what do you think of 33 speed on my pump for the dc200. I raised it back to the recommended depth but in doing so had to close the wedge and run the pump hard. Is it ok or should I run it deeper. It gets a nice foamy head but doesn't pull a ton. Not a lot to pull right now with only 25 fish in there and over half are smaller fish.

Corey

33 isn't going to hurt anything. The idea is to pull consistent skim. If you run it deeper, you would accomplish the same thing and be able to run it at a lower speed but that's up to you. I personally prefer the slower speed in large part because you can accomplish the same results and save some power and you also gain more contact time while creating more dense foam. That said, 33 isn't far off from what I consider optimum for that skimmer so if it's working, then I wouldn't worry about it. If you had a heavier load, then the lower speed would work likely better but given your load, you just need to find a setting that give you the results you like and let it do it's thing.

teebone110
05/01/2016, 09:09 PM
It might help to see a picture but if you want to raise the level of the bubbles, you can either increase the sump depth or close the wedge pipe some. The ideal sump depth is relative to the load in the system, salinity and other factors. If your SM200 has the RD3 pump, the ideal speed for the pump is between 28 and 32 watts. You want to adjust the speed to get the most dense/thickest foam possible. If you have the standard Red Dragon pump, closing the nozzle on the pump will decrease the amount of air into the skimmer and increase the amount of water. This will raise the water level in the skimmer. Opening increase air and decreases the water flow which lowers the water level.

We have a dedicated Royal Exclusiv for here and there is a setup and tuning thread with lots of info. I would suggest reading through it as it will give you a lot of insight into fine tuning your skimmer. It would also be a good place to post a picture of the foam level inside your skimmer.

Here is a link to that thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2546139


Okay, here are a few pictures that might help along with some background about my system

..and my question is that it appears that only the top half of skimmer body has bubbles. I can see inside the there are bubbles being pushed from the base within the inside chamber through the bubble plate.


This is the area I am asking about- can you see that there are only bubble in the top half- is this normal?

Sorry about my dirty sump and skimmer compartment :rolleyes:


http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4150_zpsyoppn431.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4150_zpsyoppn431.jpg.html)


I just wanted confirmation that I have it running optimally from the pros on this thread ;)

210 gallon SPS system
65 gallon sump
Biopellets
refugium with macro algae

Skimmer = SuperMarin 200 with Red Dragon Pump
Water level about 8.5"
Volute open about 1 turn

Water level
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4148_zps60r2g6dy.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4148_zps60r2g6dy.jpg.html)

Skimmer
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4149_zpsk1yjfxkl.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4149_zpsk1yjfxkl.jpg.html)

Cup with 1 week of skim mate

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4152_zpsruejmreu.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4152_zpsruejmreu.jpg.html)

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4153_zpsu6svlbyp.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4153_zpsu6svlbyp.jpg.html)

All cleaned up so you can see where I keep the foam level

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc476/teebone110/IMG_4158_zpsjeh0fjsh.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/teebone110/media/IMG_4158_zpsjeh0fjsh.jpg.html)

slief
05/02/2016, 09:19 AM
Your skimmer looks like it's performing well. If you want to raise the level in the skimmer, you can close the wedge pipe a little bit or raise the sump level a tiny bit. 1/4" increase in the sump level will make a big difference in the level inside the skimmer.

teebone110
05/02/2016, 11:01 AM
Your skimmer looks like it's performing well. If you want to raise the level in the skimmer, you can close the wedge pipe a little bit or raise the sump level a tiny bit. 1/4" increase in the sump level will make a big difference in the level inside the skimmer.

Thanks for your help, I would assume that these minor adjustments may make minor improvements based on preference. I will continue to play with it and see how things evolve. Much appreciated

slief
05/02/2016, 02:01 PM
Thanks for your help, I would assume that these minor adjustments may make minor improvements based on preference. I will continue to play with it and see how things evolve. Much appreciated

Yep.. Take notes if you need to.. Raising the level will increase the skimmate production but you are removing more water in doing so. You just nee to find a setting that produces the best skim (for your liking). Consistency is the key.

danrobberg
05/03/2016, 08:38 PM
I added about 12 lbs cured live rock to my tank yesterday. I used some puddy to aquascape, about a whole tube. Don't remember what the brand was but it is the reddish purple kind. A few hours after adding the rock I did a 15 percent water change. When I do water changes I usually turn the skimmer off for a few hours. When I went to turn it back on it overflowed as I expected due to the puddy. 24 hours later I still have the valute wide open and the rd3 50 watt pump as low as it will go and the bubbles go pretty high up the neck. My main concern is the amount of bubbles coming out the valute that then enter my main tank. I've tried closing the valute but that raises the water level in the skimmer and it overflows. Should I just leave it off for another day?

slief
05/03/2016, 10:29 PM
I added about 12 lbs cured live rock to my tank yesterday. I used some puddy to aquascape, about a whole tube. Don't remember what the brand was but it is the reddish purple kind. A few hours after adding the rock I did a 15 percent water change. When I do water changes I usually turn the skimmer off for a few hours. When I went to turn it back on it overflowed as I expected due to the puddy. 24 hours later I still have the valute wide open and the rd3 50 watt pump as low as it will go and the bubbles go pretty high up the neck. My main concern is the amount of bubbles coming out the valute that then enter my main tank. I've tried closing the valute but that raises the water level in the skimmer and it overflows. Should I just leave it off for another day?

Epoxy or what ever you used has stuff in it that causes skimmers to go nuts. I would leave the skimmer on and let it remove the stuff from the water. In fact, I would extend the collection cup drain line and route it into a 5 gallon bucket and let it drain into the bucket and replace the water in the tank with new water as needed. That will insure that you are removing the stuff that is causing the skimmer to go crazy. I'd guess 5 gallons of skim should get you back to a workable setting with your skimmer. If you can route your ATO line to your mixing tank or a container with salt water, that will make keeping your sump level cosnsistent much easier while you wet skim the stuff out.

I woudn't worry about the microbubbles. While they may be annoying, they won't hurt anything and once the skimmer removes what even is in your system driving it nuts, you can restore the skimmer settings back to normal and the bubbles will subside.

danrobberg
05/03/2016, 10:49 PM
Thanks Scott. I was just surprised that it is lasting this long. I've never had the skimmer go nuts like this for more than about 12 hours after using the epoxy. It is my first time using this epoxy though.

ClownsRCoo
05/10/2016, 05:34 PM
Hey Scott, can I get some help dialing in my DC200? My tank is pretty lightly stocked right now which I know is going to be hard to achieve a consistent skim mate. I have it sitting in about 8" of water, pump running on 31w and we'd get closed 2 notches from wide open.

I'm limited on how high I want to keep my water level due to my sump being a little undersized for my tank so I don't want to go much higher than that for drain capacity purposes.

It's pulling lightly tea colored skin and only about an inch per week. I don't mind running it wetter now than I will when I'm fully stocked just to get it working for now.

That's the reason I have combined the partially closed wedge pipe with the higher watt setting of the pump. It doesn't seem to be making much difference though.

Any suggestions?

slief
05/10/2016, 06:18 PM
Hey Scott, can I get some help dialing in my DC200? My tank is pretty lightly stocked right now which I know is going to be hard to achieve a consistent skim mate. I have it sitting in about 8" of water, pump running on 31w and we'd get closed 2 notches from wide open.

I'm limited on how high I want to keep my water level due to my sump being a little undersized for my tank so I don't want to go much higher than that for drain capacity purposes.

It's pulling lightly tea colored skin and only about an inch per week. I don't mind running it wetter now than I will when I'm fully stocked just to get it working for now.

That's the reason I have combined the partially closed wedge pipe with the higher watt setting of the pump. It doesn't seem to be making much difference though.

Any suggestions?

A light load on a relatively new tank isn't going to produce much skim. An inch a week sounds about what I would expect. The skimmer will remove what is there to remove. In the absence of enough dissolve organics, there won't be much skim and it won't be very dark. As such, I wouldn't worry about the amount in your cup. It sounds like it's working ok. What do you have in the way of fish right now anyway?

ClownsRCoo
05/10/2016, 06:21 PM
Yellow tang, 2 clowns, black cap basselet, wrasse, 4 shrimp, 2 star fish


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

slief
05/10/2016, 06:32 PM
Yellow tang, 2 clowns, black cap basselet, wrasse, 4 shrimp, 2 star fish


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is nothing... You have a total of 5 fish which isn't going to generate any appreciable amount of dissolved organics let alone skimmate. I'm surprised you're getting an inch a week at this point. The only reason you are getting that much is because you are skimming wet which is why it's tea colored. Until you really get your load increased, that skimmer will starve for DOC's.

ClownsRCoo
05/10/2016, 06:39 PM
I know it's nothing right now but it like to run it really really wet to get a decent amount of lightly color skim for now until my load goes way up.

But just so I have the tuning part down since I've never had a skimmer that you can adjust the pump wattage, does increasing the pump speed do the same basic thing as closing the wedge pipe or raising your sump water level? Seems like the wedge pipe and sump level would have the same effect but raising the pump speed would increase water level inside skimmer and air amount


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

slief
05/10/2016, 06:51 PM
I know it's nothing right now but it like to run it really really wet to get a decent amount of lightly color skim for now until my load goes way up.

But just so I have the tuning part down since I've never had a skimmer that you can adjust the pump wattage, does increasing the pump speed do the same basic thing as closing the wedge pipe or raising your sump water level? Seems like the wedge pipe and sump level would have the same effect but raising the pump speed would increase water level inside skimmer and air amount


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Increasing the pump speed sends more water into the skimmer body. This decrease contact time, increases the bubble size and makes the bubbles tend to burst at the surface instead of generating good foam. Ideally you want to set the pump speed so that you are getting the most dense foam possible and then use the water level in the sump and or close the wedge pipe to increase the foam level inside the skimmers neck. By increasing the pump speed, it will raise the water level up but you will tend to get more water removal and less dissolved organic removal. Again, the idea is to use the pump speed to achieve the most dense foam that fills the neck as much as possible. If your not making foam, you're not removing as much of the DOC's as you can or you just don't have enough DOC's to generate a good foam head. In you case, that will be an issue no matter what but the slower pump speed (between 28 & 32 watts) will be the best setting for a 200 sized skimmer. You just need to use the pumps speed to find what works best for your load.

kodo28
05/11/2016, 02:22 AM
Hi Scott,

Can you advise on the following,

139 gallon LPS system (Reefer XL525)
Skimmer Mini Bubble King 200 VS13 with RD3 Mini Speedy
Actual sump water level is 10.8" (27.5cm) and skimmer on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level to 8" (22cm).
In order to raise the water level at the waterlevel limite in the skimmer body, I need to close the wedge pipe at 80-85%. it is normal to close that much in order to bring the waterlevel at the limite line ?
I've tried to run at full 50w but also at 30w but no real changes.
Skimmer is running since two months now and the tank population 12 fishes 6 shrimps. Before the 200 RD3 , I had the Mini180 on the 450L Reefer with a sump waterlevel of 24cm and on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level also to 8" (22cm) but wedge pipe was only closed at half way only.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

slief
05/11/2016, 10:05 AM
Hi Scott,

Can you advise on the following,

139 gallon LPS system (Reefer XL525)
Skimmer Mini Bubble King 200 VS13 with RD3 Mini Speedy
Actual sump water level is 10.8" (27.5cm) and skimmer on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level to 8" (22cm).
In order to raise the water level at the waterlevel limite in the skimmer body, I need to close the wedge pipe at 80-85%. it is normal to close that much in order to bring the waterlevel at the limite line ?
I've tried to run at full 50w but also at 30w but no real changes.
Skimmer is running since two months now and the tank population 12 fishes 6 shrimps. Before the 200 RD3 , I had the Mini180 on the 450L Reefer with a sump waterlevel of 24cm and on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level also to 8" (22cm) but wedge pipe was only closed at half way only.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

You hardly have any load at all for that skimmer. There really isn't much waste in your tank.

My suggestions would be as follows. Lower the stand. Your wedge pipe is closed too much for my liking and you are having to do that to compensate for the skimmer being too far above the water. I would start at around 9" depth for the skimmer and see how that does. Your best pump speed should be between 28 and 32 watts. Like I said in the suggestion above, set the pump speed to get the best/most dense foam possible which in the case of the 200mm sized skimmers is between 28 and 32 watts.. The more dense the foam, the better a job it will do in removing dissolved organics. Keep in mind that the lower pump speed allows for better contact time which means more waste will be removed in a single pass and you will have better foam and better control over fine tuning of the skimmer. The RD3 allows for very fine adjustments for that so make an adjustment and give it time to settle down. Take notes if needed so you know what your adjustments did and find a setting that gives you the best foam.

Once you figure out the best pump speed setting for your load, Use your sump depth to get the level inside the skimmer (where the bubbles turn to foam) right at the base of then neck where the cup threads to the body. You want to do this with the wedge pipe wide open as that will be your driest skim set point. If your sump level can be lowered, I would remove the stand and drop the level to 9" with the wedge pipe wide open and see what that does. If the transition from bubbles to foam is too low, increase the sump depth slightly until you find the sweet spot. If it's too high, drop it some more or raise your skimmer slightly. Give it time for the skimmer to settle down after making adjustments. It can take several hours for the skimmer to settle down. Once you get that set, then you can use the wedge pipe to adjust from a dry skim to a wet skim without having to close it too much. A tiny adjustment of the wedge pipe will make a big difference in the foam level once you get the sump/skimmer depth set right and you will never need to close the wedge pipe all that much. If you don't have the ability to lower the sump level or lower the skimmer stand, then you will be stuck having to use the wedge pipe and close it more than 1/2 way. This isn't a huge issue as long as you don't experience surging in the skimmer body. This is where the water level in the body goes up and down and it's caused by the exit side of the skimmer being restricted too much. This causes water to siphon out of the skimmer instead of flow out nice and smooth. .

kodo28
05/11/2016, 01:14 PM
Hello Scott,

I took some pictures of the actual setting of the wedge pipe and water level in the skimmer body.

Little question about the sump water level.
In the Operating and maintenance manual.pdf they tell water level should between 20 and 22 cm. I have it actually on a stand at 22 cm
Not sure how much it will give after conversion centimetres to inch ?
8 = 22 and 9 = 23 , Is that right ?

I have a sump deep of 27.5 cm water level so logically I have plenty of room to play with. Not sure but actually the skimmer is already set to 8"-9" but with wedge pipe most fully closed. And in order to get the water level inside the skimmer (where the bubbles turn to foam) right at the base of the neck where the cup threads to the body with wide open pipe I need to set the skimmer base fully down at the bottom of the sump :sad2:

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/135594DSC0029.jpg

ReefClownMIA
05/11/2016, 01:33 PM
20cm = 7.85"
21cm = 8.25"
22cm = 8.65"
23cm = 9.05"

kodo28
05/11/2016, 01:46 PM
20cm = 7.85"
21cm = 8.25"
22cm = 8.65"
23cm = 9.05"

Thanks Marco,

So I just set the skimmer pump to 32W and wedge pipe set to the middle position and at 8.65" with stand plate...there is no way that the water level to make it.
It only goes at middle of the skimmer body so not sure how I can get the water level at the top with fully open pipe and 9" water deep in sump :sad2: .

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/140142DSC0032.jpg

slief
05/11/2016, 02:02 PM
Thanks Marco,

So I just set the skimmer pump to 32W and wedge pipe set to the middle position and at 8.65" with stand plate...there is no way that the water level to make it.
It only goes at middle of the skimmer body so not sure how I can get the water level at the top with fully open pipe and 9" water deep in sump :sad2: .

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/140142DSC0032.jpg
See how nice and thick that foam looks? You just need to get that up into the neck area. Keep in mind that those recommended sump depths are based on presumed heavier loads and your skimmer is way oversized for your current load. The more dissolved organics in the water, the higher the water level will be inside the skimmer at lower sump depths. Remove the skimmer stand completely and see what that does for your water level or you can close your wedge pipe some to get the level up higher. If you have to go past 50%, then you should be running the skimmer deeper. or you can increase the pump speed more but I prefer increased contact time and the thicker foam that you get with the lower speed. Also, you don't need to get the bubble/foam level to bottom of the screw adapter if you have the wedge wide open. A little below is fine as you can then make adjustments using the wedge pipe without having to close it so much like you do now. Also don't be so concerned about how deep you sump is. If it's 27cm to get the water level up high enough, then so be it. You aren't harming anything. If the skimmer overflows at that level, then raise it a little bit at a time until you find the sweet spot without having to close the wedge pipe so much.

ReefClownMIA
05/11/2016, 02:03 PM
I've got a Reefer 450 - Wish I had the 525.
Why did you upgrade from the MBK180 to the MBK200 w/RD3 - that's a a bit oversized IMHO.

On the side of the body, you should have a sticker that shows roughly where the waterline should be, and not be exceeded. If you don't have a dedicated WaterLine sticker, use the Royal Exclusiv Bubble Sticker on the side of the body as your high mark.
That is roughly where you want the distinguishable line between water, and bubbles.

As for the depth - try to keep it at 9"/23cm and run it 1/2 closed.

kodo28
05/11/2016, 02:25 PM
See how nice and thick that foam looks? You just need to get that up into the neck area. Keep in mind that those recommended sump depths are based on presumed heavier loads and your skimmer is way oversized for your current load. The more dissolved organics in the water, the higher the water level will be inside the skimmer at lower sump depths. Remove the skimmer stand completely and see what that does for your water level or you can close your wedge pipe some to get the level up higher. If you have to go past 50%, then you should be running the skimmer deeper. or you can increase the pump speed more but I prefer increased contact time and the thicker foam that you get with the lower speed. Also, you don't need to get the bubble/foam level to bottom of the screw adapter if you have the wedge wide open. A little below is fine as you can then make adjustments using the wedge pipe without having to close it so much like you do now. Also don't be so concerned about how deep you sump is. If it's 27cm to get the water level up high enough, then so be it. You aren't harming anything. If the skimmer overflows at that level, then raise it a little bit at a time until you find the sweet spot without having to close the wedge pipe so much.

I will then try to get the skimmer down until I get the water level on skimmer at the water level limite without touching the pipe (actually at 50%)...
I was thinking the same about the recommended values :beer:

kodo28
05/11/2016, 02:34 PM
I've got a Reefer 450 - Wish I had the 525.
Why did you upgrade from the MBK180 to the MBK200 w/RD3 - that's a a bit oversized IMHO.

On the side of the body, you should have a sticker that shows roughly where the waterline should be, and not be exceeded. If you don't have a dedicated WaterLine sticker, use the Royal Exclusiv Bubble Sticker on the side of the body as your high mark.
That is roughly where you want the distinguishable line between water, and bubbles.

As for the depth - try to keep it at 9"/23cm and run it 1/2 closed.

Hi Marco,

My skimmer didn't came with any sticker like the one on the 180 or any waterlevel limite engraving on body like old models :confused:

I sent any email to Royal Germany about this and they just answer me that the water-limite sticker was only there for recommandation...

I can tell you that I was not so happy with that answer when you know the price paid for it :angryfire:

slief
05/11/2016, 03:42 PM
Hi Marco,

My skimmer didn't came with any sticker like the one on the 180 or any waterlevel limite engraving on body like old models :confused:

I sent any email to Royal Germany about this and they just answer me that the water-limite sticker was only there for recommandation...

I can tell you that I was not so happy with that answer when you know the price paid for it :angryfire:

If you went by that recommendation, you would be going more crazy. I would say you should be glad about not having it on there because you would be more confused. Every tank is different because loads vary from one tank to the next as does salinity. People with fish only tanks tend to run lower salinity than people with reef tanks. Salinity can have a big impact on skimmer performance just like the amount of waste in the tank. The recommendations as far as sump levels and or water levels inside the skimmer are only starting points. Once you understand how to properly tune a skimmer, it really is easy. Especially with the RD3.

Step 1.. Forget what the manual tells you as far as the recommended levels. :thumbsup: It's only a starting point and since your load is very minimal, it's not going to apply to you. Then get the skimmer in the water and let it break in using the guidelines provided in this thread for pump speed starting points. In your case, 28-32 watts which you have already done. Next is to adjust pump to get the best/thickest foam which should be between 28 and 32 watts. Looks like you are pretty good there from what I saw in the pictures. Then adjust the water level in the skimmer both through the wedge pipe and sump level so that you start getting foam into the cup. As you are aware, try not to close the wedge pipe more than 50%. If you can use the sump level to get it dialed in pretty close with the wedge wide ope, that is always best as the wedge is only used for fine tuning. You don't want the foam overflowing into the cup. You want the foam to be making it's way up the neck and over the lip after about 24 hours of running. Keep in mind that it takes 7-10 days for a skimmer to break in so after that time, you can begin to fine tune the skimmer. From the sounds of your previous response to my comment, I think you are well on your way to getting that skimmer tuned. After that, your next step should be adding more fish so your skimmer doesn't starve! :beer:

kodo28
05/11/2016, 04:40 PM
The skimmer has been running since 2 months now, I suppose the breaking periode is now over...
I changed the base plate on sump, so it is now only at 2 cm from the bottom. Pump is set at 32w and the pipe at the middle point 50% open.
Water level on skimmer body is very low withthose settings (see pictures)

Could this be due following issue on the pump nozzle?
I cannot insert the nozzle without pushing it down and then there is a small gap at the bottom between the pump and nozzle . Could it be that the pump is losing some kind of pressure there zffecting the water level in the body?

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http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/693193DSC0040.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/594739DSC0037.jpg
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