Bubble king or Vertex skimmer for a 180g sps aquarium

[arkoujohn]

Hello and happy new Year,
I am trying to figure out which skimmer to choose for a new sps tank I going to start. The display tank will be 120x80x70 cm approx 180g.
I am between Vertex and bubble king.
Wich models are appropriate for such he a tank?
I ve read here that a bigger than appropriate skimmer does not work well so I would like your help to choose the correct model for my dimensions.
Thank you in advance for your answers!

[dkeller_nc]

Bubble king vs. Vertex will largely be a $$$ question. There's little doubt that a BK with its red dragon controllable DC pump would be the ultimate in controllability and build quality. But they're not cheap, even in the realm of high-end skimmers. Scott (Slief on Reef Central) would be the person to ask about the appropriate model for your tank - he's the North American customer representative for Royal Exclusiv. My guess is that he'd recommend the BK Supermarin 200 or the BK Cone 200 for your tank. Both can be purchased from Premium Aquatics.

I'd suggest the Vertex Omega 180i for your tank if it's going to be a minimalist aquascape that's lightly stocked, or an Omega 200i if it's going to be more heavily stocked. Both use vertex-modified Sicce AC pumps that are bomb-proof and dead silent. But they aren't controllable, and will use slightly more power than the BK skimmers with their ultra-capable Red Dragon DC controllable pumps.

[slief]

Scott (Slief on Reef Central) would be the person to ask about the appropriate model for your tank - he's the North American customer representative for Royal Exclusiv. My guess is that he'd recommend the BK Supermarin 200 or the BK Cone 200 for your tank. Both can be purchased from Premium Aquatics.



Thanks dkeller!

Of the two Bubble Kings, I'd lean towards the Double Cone 200 with the RD3. It would be a perfect fit for that size tank where as the Supermarin would be marginally oversized for that size tank.

Arkoujohn,
As you noted, these skimmers like many others perform best when properly sized. Oversizing the skimmer can result inconsistent performance where as a properly rated and properly sized skimmer will be a hard working consistent skimmer that, once tuned will perform consistently without any user intervention. We have a dedicated forum here at Reef Central for all things Royal Exclusiv and we monitor that forum 7 days a week morning and night. If you have any further questions, feel free to post any questions you have there.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=745

[arkoujohn]

Thank you both for your immediate answers, wishing you again Happy new Year!
I am thinking for minimalistic aqua scape (with two main islands full of sps and some lps in the bottom around them). I would also like the pump to be outside the skimmer body for easier pump maintenance.
With this in mind aren't the Alpha 200 and the bbk double cone 200 a bit oversized for my future tank?
And what about the neck size of the Vertex, is it really wider than the equivalent bbk, and therefore harder to adjust?

[slief]

Thank you both for your immediate answers, wishing you again Happy new Year!
I am thinking for minimalistic aqua scape (with two main islands full of sps and some lps in the bottom around them). I would also like the pump to be outside the skimmer body for easier pump maintenance.
With this in mind aren't the Alpha 200 and the bbk double cone 200 a bit oversized for my future tank?
And what about the neck size of the Vertex, is it really wider than the equivalent bbk, and therefore harder to adjust?

Thank you and happy New Years to you too. The Double Cone 200 should work well for you with a moderately stocked tank. If you have no fish or a really light load than it might be a different story but the pump and the skimmers design make it flexible enough that given your display size, it would be a good fit.

Like you, I much prefer the pump outside the skimmer body. Having owned an Alpha and helped many Alpha users here over the years, I would avoid that as they tend to be fussy and inconsistent in large part due to the large neck diameter and the skimmers design. As a side note, Royal Exclusiv no longer makes them for Vertex and there were rumblings of some of the parts being made in China after that but I think Vertex may have discontinued them based on some of the discussions I have had with people in the channel. I'm not 100% sure of that though. If you are considering Vertex, I would choose an Omega over the Alpha though even if you have to live with the pump inside the body. That said, if you were to choose an Alpha, the Alpha 170 would be a much better choice for your sized system than the Alpha 200.

[arkoujohn]

Thank you Scott!
You were very helpful!
It seems that I shoul follow your advice and go for the double cone 200.
The Rd3 will give me more adjusting options?

[biecacka]

Hello, I just put in the double cone skimmer on my 240, it has 21 fish in it now and I'm adding 10 next week. 6 will be over 5 inches including tangs, Angel fish, and wrasses. Sounds like a heavy bioload to me but Slief says it's a lite load for the DC 200!!! And I love to hear that so I can maybe add 4-5 more later. My skimmer is still breaking in, hasn't been in a week yet but it is already pulling some nasty foam. Slief has been a huge help to me in dialing it in. Please listen to him on size though, I was originally thinking the supermarin 200 or DC 250 both would have been too much for my tank.
The DC pump allows you to adjust the speed in single increments to really dial it in making it super easy. Yes, they are pricey but the build quality is great and is far the ease of operation is pleasing to me

Corey

[slief]

Thank you Scott!
You were very helpful!
It seems that I shoul follow your advice and go for the double cone 200.
The Rd3 will give me more adjusting options?

The RD3 gives about 2 adjustment points per watt. On the Double Cone 200, the sweet spot will usually be between 27 and 30 watts depending on your load and sump depth.

[dkeller_nc]

Arkoujohn -

If you decide to go with the Vertex but prefer to have a pump-outside-the-body design, one possibility is to go with 2 Omega 150's, assuming you have a large sump and therefore the space. Generally speaking, 2 smaller pumps with half the output of a larger one are more efficient, power-wise. The total air & water volume with 2 150's is also considerably greater than one 180i or 200i, though depending on your bioload that might not be an advantage.

One comment about skimmers in general, and based on my experience, I'd strongly suggest going with one based on a Sicce skimmer pump if you don't choose the BK with its german-made red dragon pump. In my opinion, the Sicce skimmer pumps are far superior to any of the chinese off-brand skimmer pumps, even high-quality ones that Reef Octopus uses. They simply make too much noise and/or have reliability issues.

[iClown2]

Never ran Vertex but I'll tell you I've got two Bubble Kings and love them. I have the BK 180 Mini on my original system and now the Double Cone 250 RD3 on the second set up.

I've had Reef Octopus and Bubble Magus skimmers before. RO is the worst, really liked the BM but hands down the BK is the last skimmer you'll buy.

[gcarroll]

Vertex still continues to make both the Omega and the Alpha. The Alpha is still made in Europe. Because the two companies had a previous working relationship, comparisons are a hot button issue. Royal Exclusiv was originally the OEM for the Alpha skimmers. It is my understanding that they were designed by RE as well. To my knowledge, they are still made with the exact same design and dimensions as they were when RE was building them. IMO, the Vertex skimmers of today are still a worthy competitor to any top quality aquarium company. The RD3 is however an amazing pump and for sure a major edge for Royal Exclusiv.

Personally I like both companies products as they are both great products. Vertex has done a lot to help improve their US support. A couple months ago they set up a new warehouse in Huntington Beach CA. Anyone needing help with their products can call and get immediate help.

[jbm421]

Ok so I need help making a decision. I need a skimmer in that is going to take care of a 250 to 500 gallon system but in the $600 to $700 range. I am leaning towards the ATI Powercone 250is. The tank is going to be a mixed reef but there will be quite a bit of sps too so..... Oh and doesn't matter internal or external however I have no experience with external skimmers.

[jbm421]

oops wrong place

[gcarroll]

Ok so I need help making a decision. I need a skimmer in that is going to take care of a 250 to 500 gallon system but in the $600 to $700 range. I am leaning towards the ATI Powercone 250is. The tank is going to be a mixed reef but there will be quite a bit of sps too so..... Oh and doesn't matter internal or external however I have no experience with external skimmers.Great performer IMO. Nothing that size can match the air draw nor make smaller bubbles than the Powercones. When I say nothing, that includes the RD3 powered skimmers. ATI is often the forgotten German skimmer.

[slief]

ATI is often the forgotten German skimmer.

It's a shame ATI switched to a Jebao pump on an otherwise great skimmer..

[arkoujohn]

Exactly I own a powercone 200i and when I bought it had its original ATI pump and it was working ok. Since the original pump failed and I bought a Jebao pump from ATI...the skimmer is nothing like before... very frustrating!!!

[biecacka]

Sort of like ATB. I looked at them as a serious skimmer to consider but was a little unsure of the new pump. Partly because it was so new not many reviews out there on them.

Corey

[gcarroll]

Sort of like ATB. I looked at them as a serious skimmer to consider but was a little unsure of the new pump. Partly because it was so new not many reviews out there on them.

CoreyFunny that when Chad was always against the DC pump but now that Paul is running the show the DC pumps seem to be a regular. I haven't heard of any failures with the ATI or ATB Jebaos so maybe they have the issues worked out.

[jbm421]

I hate to take this thread off topic but what was the ATI pump vs what it is now and when did this happen?

[biecacka]

Greg, I agree. When I spoke to chad about one he was not for dc pumps at all. But like you, I haven't heard any horror stories yet so they must be doing okay.

Corey

[gcarroll]

The first pump was an Eden with a variable frequency drive speed control.
http://blog.aquanerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ATI-PowerCone-250-Pump.gif
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/i/m/image_ati_powercone_pump_assembly_3.jpg

The new pump is by Jebao
http://www.histoiresdeaux.be/images%5Carticles%5Cdc-pump-powercone-ati_md.jpg
http://www.aquacave.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/700x/8f39017fa9e41584ae4b73c321149768/a/t/ati_powercone-500-2_1.jpg

[jbm421]

Yeah I had the original one... Well that sucks now what I am going to do

[gcarroll]

You will get the Jebao as a replacement if you contact ATI. While the Eden was infinitely adjustable, the Jebao has just six speeds. From what I have heard from some friends who have the Jebao, if you have the 250i you run it at step 5-6 and if you have the 200i you run it at step 3-4.

[jbm421]

You will get the Jebao as a replacement if you contact ATI. While the Eden was infinitely adjustable, the Jebao has just six speeds. From what I have heard from some friends who have the Jebao, if you have the 250i you run it at step 5-6 and if you have the 200i you run it at step 3-4.

I want the Eden

[dkeller_nc]

It's a shame ATI switched to a Jebao pump on an otherwise great skimmer..

That is a shame, indeed. And unacceptable. Cross that one off my list for my planned bigger tank. :(

[arkoujohn]

So I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

[biecacka]

So I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2546139&highlight=bubble+kin

Here ya go!! I just got mine too. Welcome to the club :D

Corey