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View Full Version : Help fish die in simple quarantine setup


Dogger
01/13/2016, 09:49 AM
I just set up a new quarantine tank using a Nuvo 25. No filter or Rock. Just water from 5 year old display. Three Fish came from my LFS. The fish are two yellow tangs and a Copperband Butterfly fish. They were floated for about 45 mins to match temp and bring Salinity up. They were added about dinner time yesterday and this morning one Tang was dead. The second Tang appears to be on his way out. The Copper is now hanging around the top of the tank motionless. Quarantine is new to me. This is second time doing this always the same result.

MondoBongo
01/13/2016, 09:56 AM
how are you heating the tank?
how are you checking the heat?
how are you checking the salinity?
how are you aerating the tank?
any treatments?
using any kind of ammonia locker like amquel or prime?
are the fish eating?
are the fish showing any outward signs of disease?
what kind of things are in the tank for the fish to hide in?

typically my QT now uses the Tank Transfer Method (TTM). this means i get a 10 gallon or 20 long and fill it with fresh saltwater. i add PVC sections so that the fish have somewhere to hide. i use a small air pump and air stone to keep the water oxygenated, and i have several dedicated QT heaters which i try to keep pre-set at the temperature i want.

i used a probe thermometer to verify the temperature, and a refractometer to verify salinity.

i change at least some of the water every day to help keep ammonia down, and keep things fresh. usually siphoning off uneaten food at the same time. i also dose small amounts of prime to try to keep any ammonia that is created in the mean time bound up.

i will typically prophylactically treat using prazi, but nothing else.

three fish is a lot to try to QT at the same time. especially with two of them being aggressive tangs, and the other one a comparatively delicate butterflyfish.

Mrs. Music
01/13/2016, 10:19 AM
Great information above from mondo. I applaud you for wanting to QT. I really feel it is the best practice. I would QT those fish separated by egg-crate or alone, especiall for the copperband. I also use Stability now. Since starting it during QT all of my ammonia problems have improved.

Mrs. Music
01/13/2016, 10:19 AM
I use a small filter too.

Dogger
01/13/2016, 10:27 AM
The tank has a heater and a probe that is reading 79.3. I also use an air stone. I also use a refractometer. The idea is to do water changes every day and test for Ammonia everyday. I could use fresh salt water as I always have 44 gals ready but I use water from the 65 gal refugium which is plumbed to the 250DT. The refugium is parked beside the quarantine so it is easy to siphon over to quarantine. I can then just top up DT by throwing a valve. I have not used Prime as Ammonia reads 0 as per API. The fish did not eat no. Im using pieces of PVC for the fish to hide in. I used 2.3 mil of Cupramine and 6 mil Prazi Pro. The Butterfly fish had a couple parasites. The Tangs appeared fine.

MondoBongo
01/13/2016, 10:53 AM
keep in mind that colocating a QT system to your display can lead to the display becoming infected. i've seen some articles that suggest parasites or diseases can travel in aerosolized water droplets up to 10 feet. just a thought.

it sounds like you've certainly got the right idea. what kind of parasites did the CBB have? were they white-ish inclusions in the clear areas of the fins? not raised bumps, but just like small, nearly circular, milky patches, maybe about the size of a large sand grain?

any other symptoms presenting? flashing, scratching, shaking, etc? my CBB has a few different kind of "shakes" that he does. some normal, some not.

how was the physical condition of the fish? did they appear well fed, alert?

what about the first round of fish you had that died? same kind of fish? same apparent cause of death?

thegrun
01/13/2016, 11:09 AM
How big of a difference was there in salinity? Fish do not respond well to rapid increases in salinity, it needs to be done over the course of several days . You would be much better off to lower the salinity of your quarantine tank to match the salinity that the fish were in and then top off with saltwater to slowly raise the salinity.

Dogger
01/13/2016, 11:28 AM
The Cbb has a little bump on each side of his body. Am I correct in thinking that I can quarantine in a container using water from a mature display as I have done, with no filtration just doing water changes. last time there was no medication they just died making me question what I have learned over the years. I did not have to quarantine in the past because one of my LFS used to do it for me. I could go in and visit while they were in quarantine. I would then bring them home and acclimate in the same way raising salinity to match display. Both Tangs are gone now. I have removed Cbb from quarantine to the refugium. He seems fine but alone. I dont understand water tests fine.

MondoBongo
01/13/2016, 11:39 AM
new water or old display water shouldn't matter either way. i like to use an ammonia locker in conjunction with regular, large, water changes, just as a little extra insurance, but either way should be OK, as long as you're making sure the ammonia is at 0.

a large, daily, water change should do that for a lightly stocked/fed QT.

sorry for your losses.

chimmike
01/13/2016, 12:17 PM
Is an air stone enough oxygenation for those 3 fish?

Cymonous
01/13/2016, 01:02 PM
The Cbb has a little bump on each side of his body. Am I correct in thinking that I can quarantine in a container using water from a mature display as I have done, with no filtration just doing water changes. last time there was no medication they just died making me question what I have learned over the years. I did not have to quarantine in the past because one of my LFS used to do it for me. I could go in and visit while they were in quarantine. I would then bring them home and acclimate in the same way raising salinity to match display. Both Tangs are gone now. I have removed Cbb from quarantine to the refugium. He seems fine but alone. I dont understand water tests fine.

I think your issue is difference in salinity from your DT/QT water and the LFS bag water. The LFS water is more than likely 1.020 or possibly less and your water is guessing 1.025-1.026. 45min acclimation time from 1.020 to 1.026 is not long enough.

Like mentioned above, your best bet is to set your QT water to the same salinity as your LFS water. Just temp acclimate for 15-20mins and drop them in.

Dogger
01/13/2016, 07:42 PM
Yes thank you. I have been feeling that it makes sense to lower my Salinity to match theirs to get them in and then slowly raise. I am going to do it this way next time. Copper is okay it seems. Can you see spot on him. Photo is not good I know.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=339008&stc=1&d=1452735453

Mrs. Music
01/14/2016, 04:08 AM
I see the spots. Is your refugium plumbed into your DT?

ca1ore
01/14/2016, 08:52 AM
If you have not already done so, do read the QT stickies.

It is FAR BETTER to adjust salinity of the QT down to that of the incoming fish as then all you have to do in terms of acclimation is a short temperature float. Assuming your 45 minute float included adjusting the salinity, then that's probably not the problem.

Although when stressed copperbands tend to hang up near the surface, I'd add a powerhead of some kind in place of the bubbler for water movement and oxygenation.

I see the blemish on the copperband, but I'd resist treatment until the fish has settled in a bit more. Doesn't really look like ich.

snorvich
01/14/2016, 10:45 AM
How big of a difference was there in salinity? Fish do not respond well to rapid increases in salinity, it needs to be done over the course of several days . You would be much better off to lower the salinity of your quarantine tank to match the salinity that the fish were in and then top off with saltwater to slowly raise the salinity.

Exactly. Also, I suggest tank transfer rather than copper. Prazi is fine, two treatments a week apart.

Dogger
01/14/2016, 11:28 AM
Makes me wonder then how the fish can survive a freshwater dip.

rovster
01/14/2016, 11:59 AM
I've had mixed results with QT. I think sometimes its just not meant to be. I'd prefer them die in QT than in my DT and possibly infecting the whole thing. I keep a QT tank running always with some rock, small skimmer, and all the support equipment. I usually do hypo and Prazi. Most of my deaths are within the first few weeks, sometimes days. My current inhabitents I lost a couple of firefish and a clown within the first week. The other firefish and clown is fine now. Go figure. Again, I make myself feel better by saying to myself it wasn't meant to be. I've also had a complete QT wipeout after adding a questionable "rare" anthias. Should have passed on it.

Dogger
01/14/2016, 02:57 PM
I am thinking about adding sand and rock to the 25 Nuvo and cycling. I'll keep it as another display with lower salinity. I will add new fish to this and see how this works. Easier to retrieve from this display if need be than the 250. If I need a hospital tank that can quickly be set up.