Support your Lfs?

[ReefPharmer]

I have seen numerous instances where people on this board and others say "support your Lfs" and in saying so imply that one should pay more to do so.

I wanted to get other's perspective here on this topic. Would you pay more for hardware to support your Lfs? Quality livestock ? I'm assuming most wouldn't pay for poor quality livestock just to support the local store.

My personal view is I would pay somewhat of a premium on livestock if it's well kept because I want the store to succeed and on some level I can't get a match online due to shipping. However paying extra for equipment doesn't make much sense because many top manufacturers have MAP and charging above the set price by the manufacturer doesn't seem customer friendly.

[d2mini]

I buy all livestock local. Either from LFS or local reefers.
Equipment goes either way. My lfs usually sells for the same price as online or close enough to it. So whatever is more convenient at the time.

[extendedmango]

I buy all livestock local. Either from LFS or local reefers.
Equipment goes either way. My lfs usually sells for the same price as online or close enough to it. So whatever is more convenient at the time.


I do about the same as d2 but I also got a great deal on my tank. Red Sea reefer 250 fully stocked with corals rock fish and equipment for 2,000 dollars.

[PatW]

I buy my live stock locally. Lucky for me, there are some good local stores. One of the stores does a really good job on fish. Yes, they cost more but getting healthy fish is worth it. For gear, it is a mixed bag. But I spend the vast majority of my money at the LFS.

[BigBlueTang]

So far, I've spent all my money online, for equipment, Except for my sump and tank. My LFS has prices that are at least 1.5x the price of online, and I can't afford that. Although, I have only bought my livestock local, and have a 0% success rate right now. However, just made my first order online so we'll see how that goes.
If my LFS could supply me with healthy livestock that don't always get velvet or flukes, I could be more inclined to buy from them.

[snorklr]

just got back from a 2 1/2 hour round trip to check out a "local" store...found a real small shop with nice livestock and virtually no dry goods...looked like whatever was there was bought long ago and didnt sell with no effort to update...there's another one a little closer thats relatively new and it too has very little in the way of equipment....it looks like the fact that everyone shops online gives these people no reason to stock anything....and believe me if my pump or heater or whatever takes a crap i wish i had somewhere to buy one at a moments notice even if the price was higher....way back when manufacturers had a suggested retail price and you could only buy from a dealer ,small shops were able to sell stuff....i owned an auto repair shop for almost 40 years...if a customer bought directly from the manufacturer they would pay retail....if i bought from them i would get a discount, and then could choose to charge retail, or discount it from there...so if i wasnt greedy i could give them a good price and get them to come to me....then all of a sudden they started selling to the public at the same price as me, and to high volume warehouses for even less....so the customer could pay less for a part mail order than i could buy it from my local warehouse...and i had to charge them tax besides....so there really wasn't much incentive for me to keep thousands of dollars of parts in stock...and i had the problem of "latest fad"also...you'd stock a part and everyone wanted it in chrome,you'd get it in chrome and they wanted billet aluminum, get that and they wanted it powdercoated in multiple colors...resulting in shelves full of stuff you couldnt give away....and the fish guys wind up with wet/drys, power compact fixtures,underpowered leds,bad skimmers , and plenty of stuff that works but isnt the latest and greatest....all this and you have to somehow pay your bills

[Mark426]

Count yourself lucky if you even have an acceptable LFS nearby. The closest one to me (30 min each way) is like something out of a really bad movie. They have almost every kind of fish/bird/snake/rat/lizard/etc. you can imagine. They even sell cigarettes and drug paraphernalia. There is so much stuff crammed into their shop you can hardly walk. On top of all this, it smells so bad you want to puke and its beyond filthy. Unfortunately the livestock is sentenced to death the day it arrives. The two times I visited there were dead things in almost every section. Think some had been dead for a few days. I should post a video of this crazy place but I dont want PETA to descend on me and the sadsack owners.

I cant remember the last time I bought ANYTHING other than online.

Mark

p.s. need an undergravel filter from 1950...I know the place :)

[ca1ore]

It's more a time thing for me. Uses half of my Saturday to go to the LFS. I'll do it on occasion for ivestock, but not for supplies or equipment.

[snorklr]

yeah mark that describes 2 more pet death camps in the area...i had lots of good shops in n.y.,but i moved to north carolina and i'm still in search of a decent one

[kcinnick]

I have bought everything used this time around. I needed a couple of odds and ends, a closed loop pump, another eb8 for my Apex, Salt and some DI resin. I picked that up from a local installer/maintenance company who also moved the 315 I bought used and helped break down and move the 4 aquarium lot full of fish and corals I purchased. I am giving him lots of the established softies I don't want anywhere near my DT. He told me just to buy my bulbs online, he says it is cheaper to get a free shipping deal than for him to buy the ones I want.

When I was in high school, and scraping pennies together to buy live stock you can bet I was ordering stuff as cheap as possible. Now that I own my own business and am not hurting to support my family, much less my hobbies I am more than happy to pay a little more locally. I know what it is like to have to compete with online retailers, and well, I do it well. We kick that crap out of local chain stores on price, service and selection not to mention custom work we can do.

I was doing the math... if I decide to sell the 6 Ecotech Vortex's OR the two Ecotech radion xr30w pro's I got with the lots (I really don't need them) I can probably make money on setting up my 315 gallon set up. Otherwise, I will just break even or come close to it. It is hard for me to sell nice stuff that I think I might use in the future... I am rethinking selling the Tunze 6095's as they are getting their vinegar bath...

[MrsReefK]

No decent LFS near us. Closest trustworthy one is about 2.5 hours away. All within my area (45 minutes away to two large cities either direction) are horrendous with fish health, tank health, coral health etc. you literally have to part the algae (4 inches long) to see a frag in one of the shops frag tank. Another shop the fish are so Ich ridden and sickly I feel horrible for them. Who knows what other parasites they have. Because of lack of trustworthy LFS's, we do 98% shopping online unfortunately. I wish we had a good shop. Before we moved to Michigan we had a decent shop and supported them over 75% of the time on equipment and live stock.

[gone fishin]

Most of the time for live stock and food I will head to the LFS. I like to look before buying.They have been able to get things for me on request and they are usually within a few dollars of online shops that I would use.

For equipment I will buy online the vast majority of the time. Usually the LFS will not have it, they will order it then I will have to go pick it up. I prefer to just have it delivered to the door.

[Maritimer]

For livestock, purchasing from your LFS means you get to evaluate the individual animals, whereas ordering on line means you've got to trust that what they're going to send you is an attractive representation of what that species should be, and not covered with parasites. However, there are times . . .

If I'm looking around online and see zebra-dart gobies for $9.99 - $12.99, and then visit my LFS to find that the label on the tank says $49.99 ... I'm not bringing home any zebra-darts today! (Don't know what it is about zebra-darts in particular, most other fish aren't more than double the price offered by on line suppliers.)

When it comes to dry goods, a few of the LFS' offer a decent selection - though often at rather high mark-ups, compared with what's available elsewhere. Many others only stock items that are of much lower quality. One skimmer might be offered; it'll be a sea-clone. (Keep in mind that inside the borders of my town, we have three choices for fish and supplies - Petco, Petsmart, and another Petco.) In some cases, it's just much easier to go on line and make _one_ order that brings everything needed. That's what I did when I set up my tank, though for smaller purchases, I do try to shop more locally.

~Bruce

[jrr98002]

I support my LFS for live items because as mentioned by somebody above, you can check them out, see if they're eating, you don't have to worry about death from shipping, etc. Are they more expensive than, say, LiveAquaria? Usually, but you have to figure that your LFS is feeding and caring for these fish, making them healthy to sell, and they have to get paid for that. As far as dry goods, I don't feel as much of a responsibility to pay for them keeping stuff on a shelf, although I still usually go local just to get it when I want it.

[donny0007]

I have 3 lfs within half hour drive that deal in saltwater only. And another 5 or 6 that deal in fresh/salt and reptile. I recently got my biocube 29 from a local store for a screaming deal. My apex and mp10 are also coming from my local store. They have them in Stock and same price as online (+tax) but whatever I want to build a relationship. Got my intank media basket on amazon because no one locally carries them. Allow getting my Nano Box retro kit from Dave on his website. I always try to support local small businesses for everything I buy

[brianr24]

I don't have any sympathy for any retailers being hurt by on line. It was all fun and games twenty or thirty years ago when they had their foot on the consumers throats making 100 percent or more profit margins.I say do what's good for you. If it it makes sense to buy local I do. If it doesn't. I don't. And I don't go for that price matching either. I'm not begging for better price.I just buy off the guy who offered best price in first place.I don't mean this to sound angry or anything.lol. it just is what it is.

[kmbyrnes]

I live within 10 miles of 6 good LFS, so I am lucky.
But that also means lots of competition for local reefer dollars.
I buy all my livestock locally, since it is WYSIWYG.
I buy salt online, because no one local comes close.
Everything else, I always give my LFS first chance for my purchase. If they can come close, I buy local. I don't mind paying more for food and test kits if it helps keep them around so I can get quality livestock. I'd even pay more for the livestock just because it helps me have a better selection.

[oseymour]

I'm in NYC and have the choice of a couple of decent LFS. I purchase lifestock, food and corals from the LFS or other reefers. Equipment I mostly purchase online because of the tax. I just purchased a RED Sea Reefer 350 and there would have been an extra 150 in taxes locally vs online and the ETA was about the same.

[rburch203]

I try to support the LFS live stock especially, I know the work they go through to get the shipment in the middle of the night at the airport, to keeping their tanks a clean as possible. Its nice for me to also pick and choose what I want rather than ordering from a picture.. as far as equipment I always check with them first and depending on what I'm looking for sometimes they even have consignment items.

[joshbrookkate]

yeah mark that describes 2 more pet death camps in the area...i had lots of good shops in n.y.,but i moved to north carolina and i'm still in search of a decent one
Are you anywhere near Greensboro? I just moved from there and liked the stock and staff at "Reef Critters". Very knowledgable and professional.

[HammerLover]

LFS in our country varies. Some literally gather csells from the wild. Every week there is always a never ending supply of goniopora, starfishes, random large fishes and never ending clowns. Almost every reef fish is available here. Some stalls are literally called aiptasia heaven because There lots of aptasias growing and some will even sell it in really cheap price as "glass anemones" and what's more weird is people buy them 0_0. However I've found 2 stores that farms and grows their corals. Their prices were much more expensive but still reasonable. They have excellent water quality and they really care about the welfare of their animals. They will help you plan on stocking things in certain tank sizes. I'm willing to support and most of my corals came from such LFS. They also sell NSW that they test before selling thus ensuring quality. Other stalls just jam 100 clownfishes in a 50 gallon tank. I've even found a coral store where they pile bubble corals, goniopras and euphyllias all together in a single tank. No wonder most corals were injured, stinged or dying. They even recommend keeping 10 small clownfishes on my 10 gal 0_0. They also sell lots of mandarin dragonets and different nudibranches saying that they'll feed on algae. I only support those 2 LFS that care about the welfare of their stocks. Other stalls were pretty bad dumping corals on tanks without even thinking what do they need

[nyknicks4412]

When I first got into the hobby I visited a lot of local fish stores. I remember being blown away by the fish/coral displays. After some research I realized a lot of what I was looking at was not in the best shape. Fish with white dots/coral full of algae. Maybe it was the stores I was visiting but I felt like the quality wasn't quite there for the price.

I prefer ordering from quality online vendors for fish and getting frags locally from other reefers. If I can't find the corals I am looking for I go straight to online. Corals at the LFS aren't even worth the look.

Just my experience. I am sure there are some great stores out there.

[moatdaddy]

Taxes. Man I hate taxes. Online I can dodge them when buying equipment. Fish I get from lfs. Needs to have been there a few weeks and eating though. Saves so much long run that way. Just what I do.

[Jade5051]

I buy virtually all my hardware online except pvc, wires, wood, screws, etc.

I get a lot of consumables at my LFS. Salt, test kits, medications, etc. Often times because shipping is too high or I have an emergency situation.

I buy all my livestock at a LFS. I always want to see the fish before I buy it and I want to know it's eating. Also, there is some color/marking variation in species. If there is a high quality specimen with all the proper coloring and markings I'll sometimes change my livestock list and pick it up on the spot.

[billbunton]

There's a small LFS here in town, I've bought small items from them occasionally. Never felt confident enough in them to buy livestock.

There's a LFS 80 miles away that I bought from. Once. I might go back one day (haven't been there in about a year and a half) and see if they've improved any.

We're heading up to Albuquerque tomorrow to stop by the next closest LFS, with the intent to buy some livestock. 215 miles each way...

Yeah, I buy mostly online :-)

[hbrochs]

I'm ok with paying a little more to lfs. I just bought GHL doser from my lfs and paid almost 10% more than online. When I had trouble setting it up, and online support didn't help, I brought it back to lfs, and he spent half hour with me getting it working and teaching me how to use it. Also buying livestock local means they have already survived and recovered from the trauma of shipping. And I like talking with the guys, always pick up a little tidbit everytime I visit the store. I'm not gonna pay crazy more, though.

[BrokenSpoke]

In the past I would buy my hardware online and livestock locally. However, for my new tank, that might change. I have several pretty good stores but they are all about an hours drive each way. When I factor in the time driving to / from each store, maybe buying a fish that day and maybe not, driving back out again to see what they have, buying that fish locally gets to be pretty expensive. Couple that with zero guarantee vs. 14 days from an online vendor and it's almost impossible for me to justify the time and cost.

Granted, you don't get to see this fish eat, but I'm starting to think the 14 day guarantee, coupled with not having to drive, and the better selection online outweighs seeing the fish eat.

[Tweaked]

There are a few to choose from here in CT, but support one allot. Equipment, nothing beats things like Amazon Prime etc., besides at the prices I can get, the store doesn't make anything on it so it's useless.

[sde1500]

I'll buy livestock at my LFS. They are great, super helpful, very knowledgeable, and I've never seen issues with their fish. They are pricey though. Scouted stuff out for the tank I just put together and it was so much cheaper for equipment online. So bought online. Most anything living will come from them though, just so much nicer to see before I buy.

[snorklr]

joshbrookkate thanks for the tip...i'm halfway between charlotte and greensboro and have mainly been looking in the charlotte area....but either city is 50 miles away...so lfs aint so local

[Sk8r]

Asking your LFS to order a specific tank or fish or invert or product has some advantages: they have a loading door, they handle truck arrivals, they unbag the fish properly, they safeguard the shipment til you can get there, and their shipments arrive during their business hours. If you've dealt with tariff limitations on freight, eg a truck having to leave an 800 lb pallet in the street because they aren't allowed to go to the door, or a truck that can't make it through the back gate, paying full air freight on a box with one little fish, or a live delivery that happens in -10 degree weather while you're at work... letting your LFS do that for their cut is a good deal.

[deleau]

I try to support two local stores. One is about 15 min away; the other a bit over 30. There are 3-4 other LFS in my area, including one much closer, but the owner has poor customer service, so I chose not to reward that.

I bought custom tank from Planet through one LFS; bought my 105 through the other. I tend to get certain things from one over the other, and I try to order equipment from them, but if they cannot get it, I'll buy from Amazon or BRS. Even though one LFS stocks a lot of BRS stuff, I tend to also support BRS where I can as well with direct purchases.

For livestock, I order both online and from the LFS. Both my LFS will order multiples of any fish I special order, so I get my pick of which one is eating best, looks best, etc. then will sell the rest to the public. I try to engage people at both LFS in regards to the hobby, their business, etc. I strongly feel that between that engagement (and the money I spend to support them) leads to some of the "special" treatment that I feel I get.

[deleau]

Also, I forgot to add that I support a local woman who does tank cleaning/services as her business. I have her come do some tank cleaning/water changes maybe once every couple months (I do most of my own maintenance), but I feel that it is good to have someone else with some kind of knowledge of my tanks in case I'm ever in a situation where I need someone else to step in for me for a while.

[roy tharp]

If you have a "reliable" & "knowledgable" LFS use them. However, I've learned that these are far & few between around my area, most are "pet shops" that just want to make a sale. I have 1 LFS in my area that I can trust so I mat spend a "small" amount more for livestock but I can count on quality. To me that is important because "livestock" is not disposable.


_________________________
Donnie

[Cancun]

Hi everyone! I used to support my LFS....I bought my tank..live rock..live sand....fish etc....but there quality of livestock started going down in the last 6 months or so....I got tired of loosing money on fish...so now I buy only from Live Aquaria....you can't beat their 14 day gauruntee....and the great customer service. I do buy my saltwater every week from my LFS....and all my coral and inverts...so I still support them in that way.

[rjjr1963]

I've gotten pretty disgusted with my LFS. Most of their livestock is sick and when they get new fish they dump them in with the sick fish. It's really heartbreaking and I can't stand going into the place anymore.

[ReefPharmer]

I have one store that does a good job w their livestock , otherwise I try to buy it and ask them to not dump the fish into their tanks so I can pick up the fish still in the bag

[yacn]

I bought my initial setup 10 years ago from LFS....tank, sump, pump, lights, skimmer, live rock, etc.

I always buy my live stock from LFS....I like to see what I'm buying. Plus I have at least 5 or 6 LFS within a 20 minute drive from where I work & live.

Thinking I would save money I began buying stuff online: replacement bulbs, salt, additives, test kits, equipment, etc.

Most LFS charge more for the same products....but I understand why. Rent, overhead, employees, taxes, etc that some online companies don't have to pay for.

I stopped buying stuff online about 6 years ago and began supporting my LFS 100%.

The variable to consider.... In an emergency situation when you need immediate help...the LFS might be the only place to go for that help. It is better to already have a paying customer relationship with them when asking for that help. I've seen a couple of LFS put customers fish, corals, etc. in their tanks temporarily to help that customer out during an emergency situation. Taking up valuable retail tank space that could be housing stuff for sale. Other LFS have offered used equipment they had laying idle to customers on loan until they could get theirs fixed...like return pump seal, etc. They might not do that for someone that isn't a regular paying customer.

Recently I noticed one of my LFS sells the same stuff I used to buy online at the same price or almost the same price....I did a little comparison shopping. Not everything but enough products like salt, test kits, additives, surprisingly LED lights. So I buy from him!

[Rybren]

I purchase as much as possible from local LFS. Our Reefing Community is relatively small and over the past few years, 3 LFS have gone under.

I don't mind paying a bit more for something local just to support the stores.

[sixpackgarage]

My LFS (saltwater junkies) Yes, I'll plug them.. is great. I buy almost all of my hardware and livestock from them. They match internet prices, although I've not asked them to do so. I think you can build a good relationship with any LFS and they will usually be happy to price things well for you especially if you buy a lot of stuff.

[CoralBeauty13]

One LFS sells fish and coral so extremely expensive it's beyond reasoning. The other has a smaller supply and another has the most terrible conditions i've ever seen. I'll by corals from one, supplies from another, and fish from the other. In a way, I guess i'm supporting them all. However, If i see a nice deal online from LA, or another source, then I'll go that route.

[Reef Frog]

I like buying from local and regional businesses when possible, supporting people who I know and like, who are part of the community and the tax base. The independent retailer is becoming a rare breed of animal and I like it when I see a few winning or at least surviving against the odds. I don't particularly enjoy the homogenization of the retail experience. I lament the rapid race to extinction of the independent retailer but heck, if you can't adapt you're toast! But sometimes our communities are poorer because of this IMO&2cents.

THE REALITY

But the retailer has to offer a value proposition to me of some kind. I need s reason to pay more in most cases. I'm not a welfare agency. I buy livestock, cheap <$20 supplies, frozen & live food and nik nak here & there. Or if I need something right away. I would actually pay his asking price on anything where owner of employee guides or educates me on an important topic or endeavor - maybe like a large custom tank - but in reality this never happens. I will always pay a reasonable price for useful expertise if I need and want it.

But on line aquarium specialty like MD & BRS get my dollar for equipment, expensive supplies like T5 tubes, GFO etc. Yes, they have an unfair tax advantage (6% here) and I am happy to take advantage of it. If I was a retailer though I'd be really mad about that unfair advantage. I will give both my LFSs a chance to "come close & be competitive" on a higher dollar purchase if they happen to be an authorized dealer, but they rarely can. On MAP items like Ecotech or Maxspect one LFS will match prices but there is still the tax issue. But sorry, if I'm making a $1K purchase I'm not turning over $60 to the tax man. $6 on a $100 item I want now. Umm ok.

So I support the LFS to a degree. Luckily it's actually the higher margin items in buying. I even pay cash or use a debit card if I must, never credit cards. I'd rather the local guy keep the 2%-3% fee.

[Reef_junkie91]

I will pay a premium for a store I can trust, and they will go the extra mile for me. But i also drive an hour to go to my favorite one when there are 10 that are decent near by.

[rpc07]

So far everything I have purchased at my chosen fish store. I say chosen because it's not local but the one in my area that has helped me and consistently gives good advice. Back on topic everything I have purchased from them has matched online prices. Obviously I pay tax but that usually works out to be a wash with shipping.

[ReefPharmer]

As a slight off topic do Lfs offer livestock guarantee at all? I know the ones around me don't. It's problematic if I want to buy an expensive fish and I completely understand why they wouldn't offer anything but it makes me consider LA w their 14 day. I usually have "good luck" w fish when I'm paying attention but every so often it won't make it no matter the qt regimen. So far I havent bought anything from LA fish wise but next time I have a bigger purchase (enough for free shipping) I just might pull the trigger

[RSray]

Support your store, period. Be it on-line or brick n mortar. Support the store who supports you, the store who takes care of his client and is there to answer to you needs, be it virtual or in person,

[Mark426]

IMO...unless your LFS is in a large city they've got to have a good online presence to stay alive. Just to much of a specialty market.

[Frontier]

Just moved out West in Broward. I got lucky because there is a great LFS - Reef Addiction - almost next door to my community. Score! I try to buy most things there but sometimes buy equipment online.

[ca1ore]

Recently needed to replenish my stash of frozen foods. I could take a couple of hours out of my Saturday and buy it from the local LFS, but pay a 50% premium. Or I could take 3 1/2 hours and go to the not-quite-so-local LFS and pay online equivalent prices. Or I can pay a flat $25 shipping fee and buy online. End up ordering more as a result, but less frequently.

What would you do? Guess what I did?

[chilli_reef]

I buy both online and my local stores.

[iluvmyfishes]

I have done both but I prefer to buy at my LFS so I can see what I am getting. I regularly check for used equipment but have bought new. I check online pricing to make sure my LFS is in range but it is easier to return faulty equipment locally rather than online so usually buy from LFS. I have several local LFS that I go to but I am willing to drive longer if I find a good one.

[mussel and hate]

If at all possible I buy livestock from local reefers if not then my LFS, never mail order. Would you ship a mail order puppy? If not why is it ok to ship other animals?

For hardware I try to build my own otherwise I buy used locally. Mail order for new kit is my third choice and the LFS is dead last since they tend to be way overpriced.

[rockworm]

I believe that you and I both go to the same LFS [emoji1] . I also buy as much as I can from the LFS. I have been going to them since I first started in salt in 2006. They have been a source of supplies, livestock and education.

Do I get everything from them? No. But for the most part, I check with them before I order it elsewhere. I have needed a couple urgent replacement pumps in the past few months. I called them first to see if they have it. If not, I will order it elsewhere for overnight shipment.

I have ordered equipment through them and find their prices are close to online prices. I am more than willing to pay a little more so I can encourage them to continue staying open.

I believe that a relatonship can be established with an independent of any shop. I have been going to the same mechanic for 23 years. I trust him and he has looked after car emergencies without delay. I dont get that from the dealerships. I can say the same for the LFS. If I lose their trust, then I will make a change.

I purchase as much as possible from local LFS. Our Reefing Community is relatively small and over the past few years, 3 LFS have gone under.

I don't mind paying a bit more for something local just to support the stores.

[BrokenSpoke]

If at all possible I buy livestock from local reefers if not then my LFS, never mail order. Would you ship a mail order puppy? If not why is it ok to ship other animals?

I'm sorry but that is down right funny. How do you think your fellow reefers or LFS got their livestock? You think they hatched and raised them themselves? They got them vis UPS / Fed-Ex / mail-order.

[SilvaReefer]

I use both the LFS and online stores for purchasing equipment. The choice for me really comes down to urgency and price. For some types of items my LFS offers very similar pricing to online stores and I will buy those items at the LFS because it is easier to manage returns due to malfunction. I will also buy from the LFS if it is more expensive but the item is needed urgently. But if online is cheaper and there is no urgency, I feel no need to be "loyal" to a local business.

Livestock I exclusively purchase at the LFS because I find shipping to be a real hassle particularly minimum orders, shipping costs, delivery times. If the online shopping system was improved, I wouldn't hesitate to buy livestock online as I don't agree with overpriced, poor quality choices at my LFS.

[SilvaReefer]

If at all possible I buy livestock from local reefers if not then my LFS, never mail order. Would you ship a mail order puppy?

Yes I would and have. Of course it wasn't stuffed in a box and stuck in the post but it was shipped some 1000 miles or so with a pet courier. Arrived safe and sound.

[Reel North]

No decent LFS near us. Closest trustworthy one is about 2.5 hours away. All within my area (45 minutes away to two large cities either direction) are horrendous with fish health, tank health, coral health etc. you literally have to part the algae (4 inches long) to see a frag in one of the shops frag tank. Another shop the fish are so Ich ridden and sickly I feel horrible for them. Who knows what other parasites they have. Because of lack of trustworthy LFS's, we do 98% shopping online unfortunately. I wish we had a good shop. Before we moved to Michigan we had a decent shop and supported them over 75% of the time on equipment and live stock.

There is a really good one in holland, MI. At least last time I was there

[yacn]

I live in metro Detroit and there are several good ones to choose from.

Where in MI are you located? I used to travel the state of MI, IN & OH for business, and I would stop in fish stores while in those areas. It's been a years since I've traveled to any fish stores outside metro Detroit but I might be able to help...I recall a few good stores here and there.

PM me if you like

[TimeConsumer]

One of my local stores did a lot of stuff under the table. If you paid cash there was no tax. They would match prices with online retailers if you showed them. They also sold handloaded ammunition if you asked about it. I think they made most of their money on building custom tanks, doing maintenance work, selling house-made live rock, etc.

[MrsReefK]

There is a really good one in holland, MI. At least last time I was there


Nice! We will look that up, that's only an hour from us. Thanks!

[thelawnwrangler]

I have seen numerous instances where people on this board and others say "support your Lfs" and in saying so imply that one should pay more to do so.

I wanted to get other's perspective here on this topic. Would you pay more for hardware to support your Lfs? Quality livestock ? I'm assuming most wouldn't pay for poor quality livestock just to support the local store.

My personal view is I would pay somewhat of a premium on livestock if it's well kept because I want the store to succeed and on some level I can't get a match online due to shipping. However paying extra for equipment doesn't make much sense because many top manufacturers have MAP and charging above the set price by the manufacturer doesn't seem customer friendly.

My initial gut feeling is to shop vs internet to the penny. I have a grade A shop. So I try to weigh it out and consider how many times he has paid some associate to have a 15 to 30 minute conversation with me and what that is worth to me. Bottom line even with the markup I don't think he is getting rich, and I don't think the store is poorly managed. It is a tough business (really more a hobby business in my opinion). I would like to see it stay a resource to me. I try to remember that when I get sticker shock, and then weigh out what margin I am comfortable with giving them and what makes sense to take the savings.

[Stickgal]

Livestock I buy mostly from lfs. We only have one (excluding the chains) within 20 minutes. Two brothers have had this store 20+ years and their fish are healthy and well cared for. I buy equipment mostly online. If there is something I see and like livestock wise online, I give them first shot to get it.