Let's discuss...water.

[Sk8r]

This is oddly enough one of the things new hobbyists often think least about. They obsess over equipment and fish and rock and sand...

But...whoa, there. WATER is everything that determines life and health of your fish and corals.

First of all: YES, first fill should be ro/di with zero TDS. (total dissolved solids)
YES, you need to cycle fully.

Second: if you're only fish, you can use salt that's not for reef.
If you want corals, start with reef salt.

Third: plan to have a cuc at work after cycle for a few weeks while you make your beginner mistakes and while your SINGLE fish or pair is in quarantine. Because there ARE beginner mistakes. And that cuc is preparing that sandbed for something more demanding.

Fourth: set your temperature about 79 and hold it. Set your salinity. For inverts and corals your salinity needs to be 1.024 to 1.026 and STEADY. You need an ATO, and you need to know how not to flood your floor or change the salinity. You need to know that things will survive the rapid drop of salinity, but if you are RAISING salinity, you should go no faster than .02 jump per 5 minutes even with HARDY specimens.

Fifth: Pre-set your qt to the salinity of your store. Ask them. ---Then don't acclimate at all---just put your new specimen into the qt and take your sweet time bringing the salinity up over days, not minutes.

Sixth: NEVER let store water touch your qt, and certainly never your tank. It could contain copper, which is not good for your sandbed or inverts. It could carry parasites or disease. Keep it out.

Seventh: EVERY tank should be testing alkalinity as soon as the cycle is done and the CUC goes in. It should ride between 7.9 and 8.3---can be higher, but should not be lower than 7.9. Use DKH buffer to keep it up, among other means. You need an alkalinity test. (Mine is Salifert, which is numerical in output. You WANT numbers, not colors on this one. It's too critical.) If your alkalinity is off, nothing's happy, not fish, not inverts, not corals. It's as basic as salt. And never mind tracking ph unless something's clearly squirrel. Ph bounces up and down during a single day. Alkalinity in a marine tank tells the real situation.

Eighth: If you keep stony coral you need two more tests, at least: and do not neglect testing nitrate. You want it as far down as you can get it. The two tests are calcium and magnesium. Here's a secret. If you have your alk at 8.3, your cal at 420 and your mg at 1350 (at least above 1200) those three readings will not budge if you put kalk (lime) into your topoff ro/di water. As long as the mg stays up, the kalk will hold the other two up. When the slow use of mg by the corals finally depletes the mg, the alk and cal will start to sag like a deflated tent. Restore the readings by dosing, restart the kalk, and it holds like magic. This is how you can go on a month's vacation in the assurance your stony reef is well-fed and happy while you're gone.

Ninth: if your tank for some reason starts downhill toward a crash, priority is getting all the healthy specimens including loose corals and inverts out to good water that need not be made from ro/di (Prime or Amquel will 'condition' it) and need not be cycled, just aerated and heated. Relieve the load on that struggling tank and start water changes and you may avert the crash, while all your healthy specimens are safe in clean water.

[nmotz]

Question about alkalinity, obviously there is some debate in the hobby as to where aquarists should keep this particular parameter. The consensus seems to be that wherever it is, 7, 8.2, or 9.7, it needs to be stable. Some people recommend pushing the limit by maintaining Alk at 9-10 while others favor the lower end of the spectrum that is nearer to the values found in natural sea water (in the vicinity of 7 dKh).

In your opinion, why is 7.9 - 8.3 best? Is that from your personal experience or is there another reason why you choose this particular range? I'm only asking because like everyone else I'm trying to look for news to succeed in this hobby and right now my Alk is 8.3 - 8.6 or so (only check once per week) Thanks!

[gottalikesharks]

Should be a Sticky!!!

[Sk8r]

I like 8.3 because it's middling and will lock in a nice relationship with 420 calcium and 1300-1350 mg. It's stable as all get-out. I've left a 32 gallon Brute trashcan of ro/di/kalk plus a backup for a sitter to put in as the first gets low, and been gone a month with a very, very calcium-hungry lps reef and had nothing go wrong at all. Readings were rock solid where I left them. Corals can be real easy to maintain once you get that going: it's the reason I swear they're easier than fish, just given that one point of good stable chemistry, which is pretty well the way the ocean does it, dissolving old limestone and magnesium deposits and staying at a nice alkalinity.

[Reef_junkie91]

Should be a Sticky!!!

Agreed. A lot of common mistakes cleared in this post.

[zoasguy]

Good information. Duly noted.

[Kardjunkie]

Total newbie here. I have read a lot on the chemistry and have a basic understanding of it (I think) but never understood how often these test need to be done. What should the frequency of all the tests need to be done?

[Sk8r]

WHen cycling, once a week until the second week, then daily. If you think you really are cycled, and might have missed the spike, try one snail, one crab. If they stretch out and do fine and look happy, you're probably fine. If not, get them out until another few days.
Test daily for every fish in the qt tank, and test morning and evening if you have a small qt. Watch your water level: SALT DOESN"T EVAPORATE. If you don't top off with fresh water, you end up with the Dead Sea, salty as all get out.
Test parameters before doing any change, so you have a benchmark. And write it down.
Test the day after (or 8 hours after if in a rush) you've done a change, because it takes time for stuff to dissolve and work its way along. Just give it time.
Test weekly until you're sure you can look at your corals and pretty well see how the chemistry is. This comes with experience. But experience can lead you down a primrose path of 'all's well' until it isn't.
If you're fish-only, I'd test weekly anyway. FIsh don't tell you they're suffering from the water quality: they just keel over.
And test any time you think something's off.
The tests do expire with time, so no sense hoarding them forever. Use them. NOTE your expiration date, and don't use them past that. And keep a notebook of your readings: always dose to prevent a tank from exiting the 'safe' zone, eg, 8.2 alkalinity is the reading: I'd dose and check my magnesium, because mg is the lock that secures the door. If alk is falling, probably mg has dropped. Think of it as a tripod, but mg is the one that's going to go down first. Fix it first, then fix the alk and cal in that order. There's a file inside the SETTING UP file called DIRT SIMPLE CHEMISTRY that explains how all that works. It's just that one is reliant on the other, and the weekly tests let you understand how fast your chemistry slips in that unique tank. Dose before you get to a bad zone.
And test again before you dose again. Always give it time to dissolve.

There's also a way to 'cheat' on the drop by drop Salifert tests if you've got that logbook up to date, and unless the instructions (read them!) give you a time delay or duration over which something must be done: rush through your drops until you're 'near' the last reading. You'll also see a 'flash' of the 'change color' before you really get there, which is another warning you're approaching the color change point. For our purposes, that's a good time saver, and you still get a good result.

[JohnnyHildo]

awesome post man.
i did have one question though, i use an RO only system at the moment and was wondering if the DI is imperative? i've read it's something like 98% effective to RODI's 100% filteration.

[Sk8r]

It's as good as you get at the supermarket, which many nanos use, and if you run your own ro, you at least know when the filter needs changing! It's pretty good. How good actually depends on how bad your tapwater may be, and how delicate a tank you keep. I'd suggest you ask that one in the chemistry forum of RC for a better answer than I can give you---I'm not a chemist. I just know it will generally work pretty well, and that I personally opt for a ro/di system because I know what's in our water---and there was a railroad refueling depot right over an aquifer recharge area---moved now, but still...
You can ask your water department for an analysis.

[DIGH]

Sk8r, great write up sir! Ok, noob here with regard to what you mean with the CUC. What is that short for or what does it stand for? Thanks

[Dria]

Sk8r, great write up sir! Ok, noob here with regard to what you mean with the CUC. What is that short for or what does it stand for? Thanks
Sk8r is not a sir. :)

CUC = Clean Up Crew

[DIGH]

And now... I feel the fool! Doubly! As soon as I saw the words clean up crew I knew the answer AND that I assumed, like a fool, that Sk8r was a male.

My apologies!

[Dria]

Nothing to feel foolish about! Acronyms are hard. And I think there's a thread a day where folks think Sk8r is a guy.

[chueu]

Sk8r is my idol

[Sk8r]

:) All good. I've been at this since I was six, and got my very own Metaframe tar-sealed 5 gallon tank with two Aeneas and three zebra danios and a ceramic glass hut. I had to take care of it, including water changes. That wuz a LONG time ago. ;) Mistakes? I've made a few spectacular ones along the way...but systems change and there's always something to learn. This forum is where the newest in hardware meets the newest in hobbyists, and I learn in here, too.

[leviburns89]

Great post!

Once major concern tho.

Phosphate was not mentioned once. And from reading all the posts from people in the "New to Hobby" forum, this parameter seems to be THE most overlooked parameter.

They don't check it, and all of a suddon there are algae outbreaks, and bacterial infections, and corals suffer, and fish hide, then everything starts to die, and they don't know why because all other parameters are in check.

Of course they all seem to flock to dumping medications and chemicals into the tank to remedy to symptoms, but not fix the cause.

This one oversight, IMO is what is keeping people from having a good experience with this hobby.

KNOW YOUR PHOSPHATE!!! And learn why it's there, and how to treat it.

[Sk8r]

Good point. If you have green algae starting up in a new tank, you HAVE an excess of phosphate, and nothing much likes it ---except hair algae. It's one thing that very frequently happens, as phosphate soaks out of the rock and sand and into the water, and because of the source, it's going to take time to soak it all out and be done with it. The best treatment for a bad case is a GFO reactor, and just change the medium monthly until you're done with the problem. It can get really bad, and no cleanup crew can even eat any significant bit of it, and no fuge is enough to get it fast enough. GFO. The reactor isn't that pricey, and it will save your sanity. Again, using conditioned tapwater can also provide you a load of it, but some rock and some sand has a super load of it, even if you're using ro/di. Once it starts, once it even starts, get a GFO to work.

[leviburns89]

You're right.

But GFO alone may not be enough. I have read several threads of GFO being depleted within a few days do to the high phosphates.

A new batch of Pukani can burn thru several hundred $$ of GFO before the phosphates begin to slow down.

Lol I guess I'm getting a little off topic. I'm starting to dwell into the rabbit hole of the curing issue, and the even deeper rabbit hole of carbon dosing and Lanthanum Chloride.

Regardless, Sk8r and I have given the heads up on the issues phosphate can cause. A Google search of any of the keywords we have mentioned will give the reader weeks of learning.

Great thread Sk8r!

[Sk8r]

Good luck on that. Never tried lanthanum chloride. As with all chemistry, all ye who face the dedicated green tide---do read up, study up, follow directions, and be absolutely sure of the strength of the solution, if liquid.

One thing you can say about the GFO depleting real fast---it's absorbed a significant load for any normal tank. Unfortunately there's no color change to tell you it's full-up. That's why I say month by month, if you're relying on it. But if it's going out in a week, yep, that's a real bad load of phosphate!

The advice on Pukani is worth writing down. It's a popular choice for rock, but algae on a massive scale is amazing, and it doesn't show up visually in wild growth until after the cycle is over. That's when you get an new (non-medicated) toothbrush, wind and yank, and pull off pounds of algae that you throw away. On that scale, it can even clog downflow teeth. At that point, it can be real discouraging. That's when you get some advice from someone who's dealt with it. It CAN be solved.

[vikinglord13]

I'm wondering if you can clarify your 6th point. Do you mean the store's water from their display/holding tanks?

Thanks for another great post sk8r!

[brianr24]

Great thread sk8ter. U are a priceless asset to this forum. Ok enough sucking up. Can you explain how to get the correct amount of kalkwasser in your top off water? Is it trial and error? Or another way. I currently just test and dose when low. It would be nice to just mix into top off.

[brianr24]

How to get the correct amount of kalkwasser in the top off water.

[Sk8r]

Ok, 2 questions: yes, you can use ro water from the ordinary supermarkets kiosk, that refills water bottles. The drawback is---you just hope they keep their filters changed. To be sure, use a TDS meter. The proper answer is: ZERO tds is good to use.

Second question: kalk is real easy to dose. ONLY two teaspoons of kalk CAN dissolve in a gallon of ro/di water, so you can't really overdose. The excess will fall to the bottom of the ATO reservoir, to leap into service when you add more ro/di to the reservoir---I have a large reservoir, so I don't even measure: what's excess will eventually dissolve. HOWEVER, you must put your pump up on a bowl or something to keep its intake out of the undissolved white stuff, if there's any lying on the bottom. You lid it to prevent it developing a 'skin' that is gunky and nasty and makes you have to clean our your reservoir more often. You stir it once on mixing and never again. The water when ready to use should look only the least bit not-clear. Now if you only have 1-2 stony corals, one tsp per gallon is probably quite enough. But once your tank is full of stony coral, this system, running only via the ATO, can supply a tank of 50 gallons crowded with coral. Above that size tank, you may need a calcium reactor to inject a stronger dose of calcium daily. This is a mild dose, and will keep your calcium around 420 (good) when the alk IN THE TANK is at 8.3 and the magnesium is at 1350 or a bit higher. THis way the ATO both supplies calcium to corals as well as keeps the salinity steady. ONLY stony coral and clams need this much calcium.

[brianr24]

Thank you. I plan on mixing in a tub then pulling water out of that tub to fill my ato res. Leaving majority of sediment in the mixing tub. Does the kalkwasser also keep alkalinity good or just calcium?

[Sk8r]

It holds alk and cal in the presence of enough mg.
I take it it's a smaller ato res.
One of the easiest ways to handle any watery situation with additives is to get some dedicated measures marked, as in 1 gallon salt mix = 32 gallons of seawater. Etc.
Also ---when you need a conversion, everybody---do just google something like "teaspoons in a cup" or "teaspoons in a tablespoon" and you'll get your conversions. If you can use that to magic-marker a level for a specific often-done measure, life can be much simpler. You just have to convince anybody sharing premises with you that certain measures, spoons, buckets are sacred and must not be borrowed. Ever.

[Sk8r]

[repeated from earlier in the thread and edited for clarity] [RE frequency of tests] "WHen cycling, test once a week until the second week, then daily. If you think you really are cycled, and might have missed the spike, try one snail, one crab. If they stretch out and do fine and look happy, you're probably fine. If not, get them out until another few days.

During qt: Test qt water daily, and test morning and evening if you have a small qt. Watch your water level: SALT DOESN"T EVAPORATE. If you don't top off with fresh water, you end up with the Dead Sea, salty as all get out.

Test dt parameters before doing any change or dosing, so you have a benchmark. And write it down in a logbook so you can look it up if something goes wrong.
Also test again the day after (or 8 hours after if in a rush) you've done a change, because it takes time for stuff to dissolve and work its way along. Just give it time.

Test alkalinity weekly until you're sure you can look at your corals and pretty well see how the chemistry is. This comes with experience. But experience can lead you down a primrose path of 'all's well' until it isn't. If you have stony coral and are using kalk, just testing the alkalinity will tell you how it's holding, but testing mg occasionally instead will tell you how close the tank is to needing more mg. With a large reservoir and kalk, you can keep it all in balance for a month without needing to do more than add fresh water...and that's with kalk and stony coral: ask me when you get to needing it.

If you're fish-only, test salinity, nitrate, alkalinity weekly. FIsh don't tell you they're suffering from the water quality: they just keel over.
And test any time you think something's off.

The tests do expire with time, so no sense hoarding them forever. Use them. NOTE your expiration date, and don't use them past that. And keep a notebook of your readings: always dose to prevent a tank from exiting the 'safe' zone, eg, 8.2 alkalinity is the reading: I'd dose and check my magnesium, because mg is the lock that secures the door. If alk is falling, probably mg has dropped. Think of it as a tripod, but mg is the one that's going to go down first. Fix it first, then fix the alk and cal in that order. There's a file inside the SETTING UP file called DIRT SIMPLE CHEMISTRY that explains how all that works. It's just that one is reliant on the other, and the weekly tests let you understand how fast your chemistry slips in that unique tank. Dose before you get to a bad zone.
And test again before you dose again. Always give it time to dissolve.

There's also a way to 'cheat' on the drop by drop Salifert tests if you've got that logbook up to date, and unless the instructions (read them!) give you a time delay or duration over which something must be done: rush through your drops until you're 'near' the last reading. You'll also see a 'flash' of the 'change color' before you really get there, which is another warning you're approaching the color change point. For our purposes, that's a good time saver, and you still get a good result."