PDA

View Full Version : ATI Sunpower VS Giesemann Matrixx II (Non-dimmable)


Jerine
02/01/2016, 12:42 PM
Hello All,

Does anyone here have any experience with these 2 lights? I'm getting ready to start a new build and I want to use T5 lighting (Non-dimmable). I really like the look of the Giesemann Matrixx II, but looks arent everything and at the end of the day I just want a light that performs well.

Anyone care to share their opinions?

Thanks

gcarroll
02/01/2016, 12:51 PM
I have a couple friends with the Giesemann and a lot of friends with the ATI. The ATI may perform a tad better the the looks and build quality of the Giesemann are un paralleled!!!

AZRippster
02/01/2016, 01:06 PM
I cannot give you a honest comparison, but I can provide you my very, very recent experience with receiving both an ATI Dimmable and non-Dimmable Sunpower. In December '15 I order one of each in the 48" x 8 lamp configuration. Probably due to the realization that T5 helps considerably with shadowing, both fixtures were on back order everywhere. About 2 weeks ago I received the Dimmable version. Upon unpacking and loading lamps for a test, I found 2 lamps did not light. I watched a YouTube video by ATI on how to open the fixture. I found one of the ballasts wired incorrectly. Prior to correcting the wiring snafu, I contacted ATI who assured me everything is QC'd in California prior to shipping. Well, I watched another YouTube video and the actual ballast in the video they were replacing was the one I had incorrectly wired. I corrected the wiring and now the fixture operates as advertised.

Fast forward to this past Friday when I received the non-Dimmable fixture. While unpacking I found the fixture had been dented under where they cellophane wrap the power cords, AC/DC adapter, and power/fan splitter. Not horribly, but for the cost of these fixtures they should be perfect. There was zero damage to the packing material. Anyway, I loaded lamps and fired it up to find the fans not working. Thankfully the YouTube video shows removal of the fans and upon doing so, I found one of the leads had either not been installed into the quick connect/disconnect, or had come loose during shipping. Bottom line, both fixtures were sub-par upon receipt.

Short of making wiring corrections, the fixtures are now fully functional except for a dent which I will likely live with. One last note, many of the reflectors have little dents and bends in them. Once again, not grotesque, but I would think wouldn't be the case with a new from the California distribution point.

Bottom line, if purchasing at least recent releases of the ATI T5 fixtures, review their YouTube videos, you might need them.

solitude127
02/01/2016, 04:42 PM
I wonder how the acrylic shield holds up on the Giessmann fixtures.

Jerine
02/01/2016, 09:36 PM
I cannot give you a honest comparison, but I can provide you my very, very recent experience with receiving both an ATI Dimmable and non-Dimmable Sunpower. In December '15 I order one of each in the 48" x 8 lamp configuration. Probably due to the realization that T5 helps considerably with shadowing, both fixtures were on back order everywhere. About 2 weeks ago I received the Dimmable version. Upon unpacking and loading lamps for a test, I found 2 lamps did not light. I watched a YouTube video by ATI on how to open the fixture. I found one of the ballasts wired incorrectly. Prior to correcting the wiring snafu, I contacted ATI who assured me everything is QC'd in California prior to shipping. Well, I watched another YouTube video and the actual ballast in the video they were replacing was the one I had incorrectly wired. I corrected the wiring and now the fixture operates as advertised.

Fast forward to this past Friday when I received the non-Dimmable fixture. While unpacking I found the fixture had been dented under where they cellophane wrap the power cords, AC/DC adapter, and power/fan splitter. Not horribly, but for the cost of these fixtures they should be perfect. There was zero damage to the packing material. Anyway, I loaded lamps and fired it up to find the fans not working. Thankfully the YouTube video shows removal of the fans and upon doing so, I found one of the leads had either not been installed into the quick connect/disconnect, or had come loose during shipping. Bottom line, both fixtures were sub-par upon receipt.

Short of making wiring corrections, the fixtures are now fully functional except for a dent which I will likely live with. One last note, many of the reflectors have little dents and bends in them. Once again, not grotesque, but I would think wouldn't be the case with a new from the California distribution point.

Bottom line, if purchasing at least recent releases of the ATI T5 fixtures, review their YouTube videos, you might need them.

That sucks! I saw a lot of those videos and it made me think if these fixtures are so great why are there so many trouble shooting videos? Part of me says maybe these videos are based on FAQs and ATI trying to provide better customer service...but then I think, thats a lot of videos they got up there so...idk. This is probably the 5th story I have heard about someone receiving a dented Sunpower. - 1 for the Sunpower.

I wonder how the acrylic shield holds up on the Giessmann fixtures.

It is my understanding that there is no comparison, the Giesemann shield is better. So far my research has shown me that Giesemann has the better build quality hands down. The Giesemann also offers both Passive and Active Cooling as oppose to ATI's Active Cooling. The Giesemann reflectors also seem to be slightly more reflective with 99.8% reflective aluminum vs ATI's 98%, which is odd since some people consider the ATI to be the better fixture in terms of performance.

Ohioreef1700
02/01/2016, 10:06 PM
Ati don't waste your money on giesmann fixtures just my opinion

Jerine
02/01/2016, 10:14 PM
Ati don't waste your money on giesmann fixtures just my opinion

Why do you say waste?

rjjr1963
02/01/2016, 10:16 PM
Hello All,

Does anyone here have any experience with these 2 lights? I'm getting ready to start a new build and I want to use T5 lighting (Non-dimmable). I really like the look of the Giesemann Matrixx II, but looks arent everything and at the end of the day I just want a light that performs well.

Anyone care to share their opinions?

Thanks


How long is your tank. I have a 6' tank and the lights will be hidden under the canopy. Right now I'm planning to use the ATI but I don't know if I should get a 60" fixture or 2x36".

Jerine
02/02/2016, 11:58 AM
The tank this light will go on would be 60" and I'm going with a 6 or 8 bulb 48" unit, not sure which yet. The tank will be rimless so no canopy to hide it in which is why I started this thread. The Giesemann Matrixx II is a much more attractive fixture, but there isn't a lot of feedback about them since they have only recently become readily available in the states. The few comments I have received were from reefers overseas. So far the Giesemann seems to be a good light, but I have been warned to steer clear of the dimmable version as they often have ballast issues. I have heard the same things said about the ATI fixtures which is why I have opted to go non-dimmable. That and the bulb life being longer.

solitude127
02/02/2016, 12:36 PM
For the Giessmann fixture, I found it interesting that if you buy 4 bulb unit or 8 bulb unit, the fixture is the same width. maybe they're trying to save money and only have 1 housing.

gcarroll
02/02/2016, 02:26 PM
For the Giessmann fixture, I found it interesting that if you buy 4 bulb unit or 8 bulb unit, the fixture is the same width. maybe they're trying to save money and only have 1 housing.Of course they do. We both know someone who took advantage of th 6 bulb unit and added a reefbrite strip in the open space.

gcarroll
02/02/2016, 02:36 PM
The Giesemann reflectors also seem to be slightly more reflective with 99.8% reflective aluminum vs ATI's 98%, which is odd since some people consider the ATI to be the better fixture in terms of performance.99.8% using that fuzzy new math! That my friend, is creative marketing. I bet they cannot produce any proof that supports that claim. They both use reflective aluminum from Alanod. Miro Silver (ATI's material of choice) is as good as Alanod produces. Giesemann is using their anodized aluminum. I love Giesemann and all but I got to call a spade a spade!

CoralNerd
02/02/2016, 07:40 PM
Following along. Giesemann got the sexy award hands down. I'm in the market to buy a t5 unit also, and the comments about two brand new fixtures arrived not wired correctly, well that would p*** me off.

Jerine
02/02/2016, 10:30 PM
Anyone know how the Pacific Sun T5 compares?

Swip
02/03/2016, 01:56 PM
I can't find it right now but theres a German site with PAR numbers on both fixtures and the ATI has about 20% more PAR than the Giesemann.

The active cooling and reflectors on the ATI are much better. The only thing that's better about the Giesemann is the design.

Jerine
02/03/2016, 02:38 PM
I can't find it right now but theres a German site with PAR numbers on both fixtures and the ATI has about 20% more PAR than the Giesemann.

The active cooling and reflectors on the ATI are much better. The only thing that's better about the Giesemann is the design.

That is the consensus I'm getting. Not that Giesemann is a bad light but that the ATI is a much better value. I believe the ATI fixtures are the baseline in which competitors are building their fixtures around. As much as I like the Giesemann especially the aesthetics and I'm not sure if that alone is worth paying and additional $300-400.

gcarroll
02/03/2016, 02:49 PM
That is the consensus I'm getting. Not that Giesemann is a bad light but that the ATI is a much better value. I believe the ATI fixtures are the baseline in which competitors are building their fixtures around. As much as I like the Giesemann especially the aesthetics and I'm not sure if that alone is worth paying and additional $300-400.That's tough. The Giesemann is that much better looking! The performance difference can be made up by running the lights a little longer or even running them a tad closer to the water. It would be a hard choice for me as I love both companies products, but at this stage in my life aesthetics mean much more to me in a tank build. Especially since it's easy to get back the performance.

Jerine
02/03/2016, 03:36 PM
It is really hard and I was thinking the same thing in terms of putting the light closer to the water surface and I certainly don't mind running them a little longer. The Giesemann fixture is just so well cratfed and modern looking and would look great over top a modern rimless tank. Its hard to ignore them.

Swip
02/03/2016, 04:11 PM
You could also get the powermodule for the price of the Giesemann.. better looking than the Sunpower and a tiny bit more performance. In my opinion even better looking than the Giesemann but that's just my opinion.

Also, asthetic wise the Pacific Sun is the sexiest T5 fixture I've ever seen. I don't know if the PAR is as good as the ATI fixtures but it's probably still better than the Giesemann.

gcarroll
02/03/2016, 04:18 PM
Considering the Pac Sun looks like a painted powermodule, I can see why you feel this way. The Pac Sun also uses Anodized aluminum reflector material so probably no better than the Giesemann IMO. It does have active cooling which may give it a performance edge.

Personally I feel neither looks as good as the Giesemann.

gcarroll
02/03/2016, 04:32 PM
Here is the Pacific Sun
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/9eca93f93d1e58d7ad2e5c1c626b7653.jpg

Here is the Powermodule
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/f7f4296a0ab59c062c4f17424cce88c8.jpg

Here is the Giesemann. And just noticed that the Matrix II has active cooling too! This means that the difference may be closer than the original Matrix vs the ATI.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/01fd600e924218b31d11103c828c0b3b.jpg

Swip
02/03/2016, 05:13 PM
The test was Matrix II vs ATI Sunpower. No one said the Giesemann has no active cooling, it's just that it's much worse than that of the Sunpower/Powermodule.

The Sunpower has 2 fans sucking the air in where it then blows over the bulbs and is directed to an opening on the side of the fixture. The Giesemann also has 2 fans, but one sucks air in while the other blows it out. The fixture is complety closed at the bottom so the only way the heat can come out is out of the 1 small fan. It's just not enough.
The Giesemann is made to look like it's high quality while not being an actual high quality fixture.

Have you seen the Pacific Sun in person or is your opinion just from looking at pictures on google? The Pacific Sun looks much better than the Powermodule in person although they do look kind of similar on the pictures.

gus6464
02/03/2016, 05:22 PM
The Matrixx and Sunpower use both specular reflectors. This means that the angle in which the photons are reflected is the same as the incoming. Now the Matrixx has 1 angle compared to 2 for the sunpower. Based on the design of the of the Matrixx I would actually put it a little lower on the output scale compared to the sunpower because of the reflector design.

Pac Sun Diuna and ATI Powermodule are parabolic which is a whole different beast. Parabolic takes the photons and reflects at the same exact angle no matter which angle the light is coming from. This produces a more intense beam of light. This is why the ATI Powermodule has always been rated at least 10% more powerful than the Sunpower.

Then we have to take into account bulb temperature. T5 is most efficient at 35C. That is the lumen output is highest when the area surrounding the bulb is at this temp. Running too cold actually kills output more than running it too hot.

This is evident as the ATI Sunpower manual states to never run the fans on the unit at full power (12V). They recommend 9V with splashguard in place and if you were to remove it you would actually need to run the fan at a lower output of ~3-6V. This is because ambient air is cooling the bulb a lot better when running no splashguard. Of course this is based on a normal household room temperature.

The Matrixx does have an advantage though that since it only have 1 specular angle the light has more spread. Of course this spread sacrifices output. The amount of output sacrificed by the spread could be significant but impossible to know without properly testing.

This is how the Diuna and Powermodule reflect the light.
http://www.antonine-education.co.uk/Image_library/Physics_5_Options/Astrophysics/parabolic.JPG

And this is Matrixx and Sunpower.
https://coolcodea.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/specularity.gif

The Matrixx adds one more angle to put the photons in a tighter bunch and the Sunpower adds two. This makes the Sunpower have a more focused path.

Jerine
02/03/2016, 07:11 PM
You could also get the powermodule for the price of the Giesemann.. better looking than the Sunpower and a tiny bit more performance. In my opinion even better looking than the Giesemann but that's just my opinion.

Also, asthetic wise the Pacific Sun is the sexiest T5 fixture I've ever seen. I don't know if the PAR is as good as the ATI fixtures but it's probably still better than the Giesemann.

I would love a powermodule! In fact I have been looking for old school ones that don't have the LEDs. The new hybrid powermodules are expensive. An 8 bulb fixture is over $2000 and that's just too much for a T5 unit with some glorified LEDs. I have checked out the Pacific Sun and they are now also being considered. Not quite as much info on those around though.

Considering the Pac Sun looks like a painted powermodule, I can see why you feel this way. The Pac Sun also uses Anodized aluminum reflector material so probably no better than the Giesemann IMO. It does have active cooling which may give it a performance edge.

Personally I feel neither looks as good as the Giesemann.

I agree the Giesemann Matrix II is the nice of the 3, but the powermodule sure is nice too, just too expensive. I wish the Sunpower came in the powermodule body...

AZRippster
02/03/2016, 07:13 PM
I'm impressed Gus, that was some great info.

Swip
02/03/2016, 07:20 PM
I didn't know that you could no longer buy the normal Powermodule in the US, sorry.
It's still being sold in Germany so I thought you could still buy it too.

Also, nice information Gus!

Jerine
02/03/2016, 07:33 PM
The Matrixx and Sunpower use both specular reflectors. This means that the angle in which the photons are reflected is the same as the incoming. Now the Matrixx has 1 angle compared to 2 for the sunpower. Based on the design of the of the Matrixx I would actually put it a little lower on the output scale compared to the sunpower because of the reflector design.

Pac Sun Diuna and ATI Powermodule are parabolic which is a whole different beast. Parabolic takes the photons and reflects at the same exact angle no matter which angle the light is coming from. This produces a more intense beam of light. This is why the ATI Powermodule has always been rated at least 10% more powerful than the Sunpower.

Then we have to take into account bulb temperature. T5 is most efficient at 35C. That is the lumen output is highest when the area surrounding the bulb is at this temp. Running too cold actually kills output more than running it too hot.

This is evident as the ATI Sunpower manual states to never run the fans on the unit at full power (12V). They recommend 9V with splashguard in place and if you were to remove it you would actually need to run the fan at a lower output of ~3-6V. This is because ambient air is cooling the bulb a lot better when running no splashguard. Of course this is based on a normal household room temperature.

The Matrixx does have an advantage though that since it only have 1 specular angle the light has more spread. Of course this spread sacrifices output. The amount of output sacrificed by the spread could be significant but impossible to know without properly testing.

This is how the Diuna and Powermodule reflect the light.
http://www.antonine-education.co.uk/Image_library/Physics_5_Options/Astrophysics/parabolic.JPG

And this is Matrixx and Sunpower.
https://coolcodea.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/specularity.gif

The Matrixx adds one more angle to put the photons in a tighter bunch and the Sunpower adds two. This makes the Sunpower have a more focused path.

WOW! This is a lot of great information. I didn't realize the Diuna was comparable to the Powermodule. Thank you such a descriptive post. Gives me even more to consider.

Based on this it sound like I could be successful with any of these options with varying results perhaps.

Jerine
02/03/2016, 07:42 PM
I didn't know that you could no longer buy the normal Powermodule in the US, sorry.
It's still being sold in Germany so I thought you could still buy it too.

Also, nice information Gus!

Yea if I could I'd be all over it!

nickdo
02/03/2016, 08:01 PM
my sunpower computer defected within one year. don't buy dimmable version.

After one year, the reflector has many black spot (especially on the cooler side). the vent side of the fixture is very hot, about 50~60C air temp, 12v was selected, 30C room temp.

do you guy has issue on the reflector of sunpower/powermodule?

Jerine
02/03/2016, 08:43 PM
my sunpower computer defected within one year. don't buy dimmable version.

After one year, the reflector has many black spot (especially on the cooler side). the vent side of the fixture is very hot, about 50~60C air temp, 12v was selected, 30C room temp.

do you guy has issue on the reflector of sunpower/powermodule?

I keep hearing negative things about the ATI dimmable version.

rodneyri
02/03/2016, 10:12 PM
Ive owned all three lights - ATI - Giesemann Matrix II and now Pac Sun Diuna, all 8x80w.

ATI vs Giesemann - ATI All the way, out performs hands down, PAR 250 compared against 400 at the same spot in tank with the same tubes (literally moved the tubes from one fixture to the other). I had two Giesemann blow up within 10mins of usage - yes 10mins, my bro's Matrixx II just blew a ballast at about 10months old.

Currently using Diuna, PAR matches Powermodule, fans are a bit noisy but for the few months ive had it so far, its doing an amazing job.

CoralNerd
02/03/2016, 10:18 PM
Maybe you had the windows open and let some of that Australian sun in lol. That's a big difference in par.

SpSChief85
02/04/2016, 12:26 AM
I just ordered a 24" 8 bulb dimmable fixture, going to be running 6 blue+ 1 coral+ 1 purple+... my question is how high should I hang this light on a 24 tall tank to grow sps 4 to 6 inches off the bottom of my bb tank. Also have a 4 bulb let retrofit kit I may add on to the 8 bulb ati.

CoralNerd
02/04/2016, 12:54 AM
I just ordered a 24" 8 bulb dimmable fixture, going to be running 6 blue+ 1 coral+ 1 purple+... My question is How High should I hang this light .
Try this thread [emoji6] http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096816
I think 10" is normal but you may want to start higher at first.

Jerine
02/04/2016, 09:11 AM
Ive owned all three lights - ATI - Giesemann Matrix II and now Pac Sun Diuna, all 8x80w.

ATI vs Giesemann - ATI All the way, out performs hands down, PAR 250 compared against 400 at the same spot in tank with the same tubes (literally moved the tubes from one fixture to the other). I had two Giesemann blow up within 10mins of usage - yes 10mins, my bro's Matrixx II just blew a ballast at about 10months old.

Currently using Diuna, PAR matches Powermodule, fans are a bit noisy but for the few months ive had it so far, its doing an amazing job.

When you refer to the ATI fixture vs the Giesemann, are you talking about the sunpower or powermodule?

How does the fan noise compare to the fans of the ATI you've used?

RedStangGA
02/04/2016, 01:11 PM
Ive owned all three lights - ATI - Giesemann Matrix II and now Pac Sun Diuna, all 8x80w.

ATI vs Giesemann - ATI All the way, out performs hands down, PAR 250 compared against 400 at the same spot in tank with the same tubes (literally moved the tubes from one fixture to the other). I had two Giesemann blow up within 10mins of usage - yes 10mins, my bro's Matrixx II just blew a ballast at about 10months old.

Currently using Diuna, PAR matches Powermodule, fans are a bit noisy but for the few months ive had it so far, its doing an amazing job.

Anyone know what's up with Pac Sun USA? Web site doesn't seem to be available anymore.

gcarroll
02/04/2016, 02:44 PM
Anyone know what's up with Pac Sun USA? Web site doesn't seem to be available anymore.They are now distributed by Deepwater.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/deepwater-aquatics-is-pacific-suns-new-north-american-distributor

Jerine
02/05/2016, 10:29 AM
Ive owned all three lights - ATI - Giesemann Matrix II and now Pac Sun Diuna, all 8x80w.

ATI vs Giesemann - ATI All the way, out performs hands down, PAR 250 compared against 400 at the same spot in tank with the same tubes (literally moved the tubes from one fixture to the other). I had two Giesemann blow up within 10mins of usage - yes 10mins, my bro's Matrixx II just blew a ballast at about 10months old.

Currently using Diuna, PAR matches Powermodule, fans are a bit noisy but for the few months ive had it so far, its doing an amazing job.

What part of the tank did you get those par readings? Top, center, bottom? Do you like the Diuna better than the ATI? If so, why?

CoralNerd
02/06/2016, 08:27 PM
How easy or hard is it to replace the bulbs on the Giesemann matrixx ii and ATI Sunpower? I ask as I have a canopy and I'm trying to figure out how I want to hang the light. Thanks

heritage
02/06/2016, 09:56 PM
I just ordered a 24" 8 bulb dimmable fixture, going to be running 6 blue+ 1 coral+ 1 purple+... my question is how high should I hang this light on a 24 tall tank to grow sps 4 to 6 inches off the bottom of my bb tank. Also have a 4 bulb let retrofit kit I may add on to the 8 bulb ati.

Depends on the sps you plan to keep but i have my fixture 7 inches above the water. I have a mint pavona and a danea growing 4 inches off the bottom.

heritage
02/06/2016, 09:59 PM
How easy or hard is it to replace the bulbs on the Giesemann matrixx ii and ATI Sunpower? I ask as I have a canopy and I'm trying to figure out how I want to hang the light. Thanks

Bulb replacement is easy on the ati but if mounted inside a canopy you need a way to remove the acrylic shield. I'm sure it's the same way with the Giesemann.

CoralNerd
02/06/2016, 10:24 PM
So what's the steps to remove the shield on ATI Sunpower and Giesemann matrixx ii?

velcro
02/06/2016, 10:31 PM
I remember seeing a video on the geissman having better par because of more consistent cooling across the whole bulb. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

heritage
02/06/2016, 10:45 PM
So what's the steps to remove the shield on ATI Sunpower and Giesemann matrixx ii?

Just slides out of the end.

heritage
02/06/2016, 11:01 PM
I keep hearing negative things about the ATI dimmable version.

I run 2 dimmable sunpowers and never had a problem. Going on 2 years

CoralNerd
02/06/2016, 11:09 PM
I run 2 dimmable sunpowers and never had a problem. Going on 2 years
How often do you have to replace your bulbs and what size fixture?

heritage
02/06/2016, 11:11 PM
How often do you have to replace your bulbs and what size fixture?

6x36 and I change bulbs once a year.

rodneyri
02/07/2016, 12:41 AM
How easy or hard is it to replace the bulbs on the Giesemann matrixx ii and ATI Sunpower? I ask as I have a canopy and I'm trying to figure out how I want to hang the light. Thanks

You need to remove 2 screws from the end then slide out the metal casing and take out the three pieces of persepex. ATI and PacSun just slide out the perspex shield.

Reefstarter2
02/07/2016, 10:21 AM
following along here I am in same boat only I am looking for a 60 " model . and I may end up with a hybrid . not sure yet . One thing about the pac sun I like is you can control 2 bulbs at a time VS ATI you get 2 bulbs then the other 6 . Not sure how the giesemann is about that

RedStangGA
02/07/2016, 11:32 AM
following along here I am in same boat only I am looking for a 60 " model . and I may end up with a hybrid . not sure yet . One thing about the pac sun I like is you can control 2 bulbs at a time VS ATI you get 2 bulbs then the other 6 . Not sure how the giesemann is about that

Same boat as you. I'll likely go ATI because they have a much longer track record than Pac Sun and, IMO, are a much better value buy. Keeping my mind open until I pull the trigger though.

Przemek_PacSun
02/07/2016, 01:38 PM
Same boat as you. I'll likely go ATI because they have a much longer track record than Pac Sun and, IMO, are a much better value buy. Keeping my mind open until I pull the trigger though.

It's good to compare apples to apples not to oranges if we are talking about pricing ;-)
ATI Sunpower are great lights but looking from Customer point of view - much closer to Diuna level lamp are Powermodules.
There are many hude differences between Diuna and Sunpower - most important are:
- control - in Sunpower two cables(one for 1st channel - 2pcs tubes, second for the rest). In Diuna - internal wireless computer which allow to control each pair separately
- fans - in Diuna - controlled by internal computer and switched off when not needed(PWM speed control). In ATI Sunpower - external powersupply with voltage manual regulator
- overal control performace - in Diuna you have internal computer which calculate T5 tubes usage, allow to set and control builtin special moonlight (with full moonphase control - together with intensity etc). In ATI - you can only turn on/off each channel using external timers.
I listed only few important differences - as you can see pricing depend from included advantages/control options which are much more advanced in Diuna lamps.

Regards

Przemek

Jerine
02/07/2016, 03:06 PM
I started this thread because I was torn between the Giesemann Matrixx II and the ATI Sunpower. I now find myself even more torn with the introduction of the Diuna over the last few post (thanks Rod) and I must say that the Diuna is certainly a contender.

Przemak I know it was just announced that Deepwater will be the exclusive supplier of Pacific Sun in North America. Do you know when we can expect to see pricing? If the pricing is anything like it is on the Pacific Sun website then I'd say the Diuna may very well be one of the best fixtures you can buy for the money. The price point based on my currency converter is that of the Matrixx II non-dimmable and you get so much more from the light. I for one can't wait until Deepwater makes them available so that I can compare price and see if the value is still there.

BTW I love the T5 tube usage. No more guessing and get maximum life out of your tubes!

janci
02/10/2016, 12:44 PM
I see that the Pacific Sun Diuna only comes in 8 or 10 bulbs fixtures.
How wide is the fixture with 8 bulbs? I cannot find any information on the website.

shred5
02/10/2016, 12:50 PM
Hello All,

Does anyone here have any experience with these 2 lights? I'm getting ready to start a new build and I want to use T5 lighting (Non-dimmable). I really like the look of the Giesemann Matrixx II, but looks arent everything and at the end of the day I just want a light that performs well.

Anyone care to share their opinions?

Thanks

I own both Matrixx II and Sunpower including ATI Powermodule which is not made anymore.
ATI Powermodule is better that the sunpower. Performance they are all close but the Matrixx II is just a better looking and better built fixture.
Matrixx also has more control because they use a ballast per two bulbs.

I have also lately had allot of issues with ATI fans and Ballasts the fixtures are getting several years old with he power module being more than several years old.

gus6464
02/10/2016, 01:10 PM
I own both Matrixx II and Sunpower including ATI Powermodule which is not made anymore.
ATI Powermodule is better that the sunpower. Performance they are all close but the Matrixx II is just a better looking and better built fixture.
Matrixx also has more control because they use a ballast per two bulbs.

I have also lately had allot of issues with ATI fans and Ballasts the fixtures are getting several years old with he power module being more than several years old.

They all use 2 bulbs per ballast. It's how you wire the ballasts that matter when it comes to control.

Matrixx costs the same as Diuna or Powermodule and has the weakest reflectors of the bunch. Not really a great deal.

The Pac Sun you can't really buy in the US right now as they seem to be doing distributor musical chairs.

shred5
02/10/2016, 01:20 PM
They all use 2 bulbs per ballast. It's how you wire the ballasts that matter when it comes to control.

Matrixx costs the same as Diuna or Powermodule and has the weakest reflectors of the bunch. Not really a great deal.

The Pac Sun you can't really buy in the US right now as they seem to be doing distributor musical chairs.

Absolutely not. My ATI 6 bulb fixture uses a 4 bulb ballast and a two bulb ballast.

rjjr1963
02/10/2016, 01:55 PM
I emailed Pac Sun last week and they said the US distributor would be in contact but I haven't heard back from them yet.

AZRippster
02/10/2016, 03:42 PM
Absolutely not. My ATI 6 bulb fixture uses a 4 bulb ballast and a two bulb ballast.

I wonder how in the heck you ended up with a ballast for 4 lamps? I asked that very question to ATI back in December and this was their response:

"Hello!

All ATI Fixtures use 1 ballast for every 2 lamps. Therefor an 8x54 will have 4 ballasts.

Cheers
Keith

Best Regards,
Keith Smith
ATI North America
Phone: 303-459-2119
www.atinorthamerica.com"

shred5
02/10/2016, 03:57 PM
I wonder how in the heck you ended up with a ballast for 4 lamps? I asked that very question to ATI back in December and this was their response:

"Hello!

All ATI Fixtures use 1 ballast for every 2 lamps. Therefor an 8x54 will have 4 ballasts.

Cheers
Keith

Best Regards,
Keith Smith
ATI North America
Phone: 303-459-2119
www.atinorthamerica.com"

Wait you are right. They only come with two cords and tie two ballast together to a single cord. So basically one cord for two ballast.

So yes two lamps ballast. Still less control. if they put a cord per ballast it would be the same as Giessemann .



I had to pull my message up from ATI because I need to replace a ballast that buzzes when the fixture warms up when unplugging it 4 lamps went out.

gus6464
02/10/2016, 03:58 PM
I wonder how in the heck you ended up with a ballast for 4 lamps? I asked that very question to ATI back in December and this was their response:

"Hello!

All ATI Fixtures use 1 ballast for every 2 lamps. Therefor an 8x54 will have 4 ballasts.

Cheers
Keith

Best Regards,
Keith Smith
ATI North America
Phone: 303-459-2119
www.atinorthamerica.com"

He doesn't. ATI has always used 2 lamp ballasts. It's more cost effective to do it this way. No point in arguing. Also 4 bulb 24/39W ballasts are pretty rare.

CoralNerd
02/19/2016, 10:56 PM
I think I'm going to get ati sunpower 6 bulb unit. I'm going to gamble on the dimmable as it only has one cord to plug in. I'm also going to throw on a reefbrite xho led unit. I understand reefbrite has a new single channel interface so I can dim the leds with my apex. My stand and canopy is aluminum so the whole set up should look / function great. [emoji14]

Jerine
02/19/2016, 11:25 PM
I am leaning toward the Pacific Sun T5 Diuna, but I have not made a concrete decision yet. The ATI Sunpower is still being considered as it is an affordable proven solution. I'm shying away from the Matixx II not because it won't work, but because its practically the same price as the Diuna and you get so much more with the Diuna.

CoralNerd
02/19/2016, 11:52 PM
Funny I sent a email to Deepwater through their website asking when more information would be available. What's making you lien in that direction. I like the looks of the web interface.

Does someone know if ATI units are made in America?

Jerine
02/20/2016, 10:16 AM
Reefomania has the Pacific Sun line of lights so you could try them if your interested. I'm leaning toward the Diuna because they fixture design and the reflectors. I don't have a canopy as the tank is rimless so the light will be in the open, so aesthetics are important. The Diuna is only $50 more than the Matrixx II that I was looking at and is dimmable where the Matrixx I'm looking at is not.

I also like the fact that the Pac Sun software monitors bulb life and kinda takes the guesswork out of when the bulbs need to be replaced. Though I haven't heard anyone comment on this feature, it is an interesting one and very intriguing to me.

I know that all the ATI units for the North American Division come from Canada. I'm not sure if they are manufactured there but I know that is the distribution hub for North America.

In my mind the perfect T5 fixture would be on that had the Giesemann Matrixx II body, the ATI Powermodule reflectors, Pacific Sun Dimming Software, and ATI Sunpower cooling. Can somebody make one of these? Lol.

If the Matrixx II was a bit cheaper I'd probably be getting that for sure. The thing that worries me with the Matrixx II is the reflector design and how it adversely affects PAR. The Matrixx reflectors provide a better light spread, but in doing so sacrifice focus resulting in lower par readings. Its not to say that you cant be successful with the Matrix II but I just think for the money I should be getting more out of the light.

If the all T5 version of the ATI Powermodule was available in the US I'd take hard look at it. Performance wise the ATI Sunpower is great, but in my opinion it is one of the ugliest lighting fixture available and like I said aesthetics count in my build.

rodneyri
02/20/2016, 03:06 PM
Took out the PAR meter today, measurements are roughly at the midpoint of the corals...tubes are about 6 weeks old - 4B+, 2C+, 1ABS, 1FP

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x302/rodneyri/IMG_1090PAR.jpg

Jerine
02/20/2016, 04:20 PM
Took out the PAR meter today, measurements are roughly at the midpoint of the corals...tubes are about 6 weeks old - 4B+, 2C+, 1ABS, 1FP

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x302/rodneyri/IMG_1090PAR.jpg

Nice! Are you running Zeovit?

rodneyri
02/20/2016, 04:34 PM
No Zeo, rowaphos / carbon / skimmer / siporax.

Przemek_PacSun
02/22/2016, 04:52 PM
I see that the Pacific Sun Diuna only comes in 8 or 10 bulbs fixtures.
How wide is the fixture with 8 bulbs? I cannot find any information on the website.

Sorry, I missed your question. Model with 8 tubes is 540mm wide.
Regards

Przemek

codydemmel4
03/18/2016, 06:00 PM
so I am almost in the same exact boat, I am looking for a 60 inch lamp.

I am wondering what you ended up going with. I am leaning towards the ATI because it seems like it is a great value deal and I will have mine in a canopy so I dont think it is worth it to spend 300-400 more just because of the looks when itll be hidden. I would like to see any suggestions or opnions on anyone else that made a decision lately or had or heard any experiences.

Jerine
03/18/2016, 08:57 PM
so I am almost in the same exact boat, I am looking for a 60 inch lamp.

I am wondering what you ended up going with. I am leaning towards the ATI because it seems like it is a great value deal and I will have mine in a canopy so I dont think it is worth it to spend 300-400 more just because of the looks when itll be hidden. I would like to see any suggestions or opnions on anyone else that made a decision lately or had or heard any experiences.

I'm actually still deciding, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the ATI Sunpower for a few reasons.

1. Price. You just can't beat it! Probably one of the most cost effective options out there for sps.

2. I can easily add a couple ReefBrite strips on there down the road if I see fit.

3. Proven. ATI Sunpower just works!

zcfihu
03/19/2016, 06:18 AM
Does anyone here have any experience with these 2 lights? I'm getting ready to start a new build and I want to use T5 lighting (Non-dimmable). I really like the look of the Giesemann Matrixx II, but looks arent everything and at the end of the day I just want a light that performs well.http://financeisok.com/loan/images/60.gif http://financeisok.com/loan/images/37.gif
http://financeisok.com/loan/images/39.gif

codydemmel4
03/19/2016, 06:37 AM
I'm actually still deciding, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the ATI Sunpower for a few reasons.

1. Price. You just can't beat it! Probably one of the most cost effective options out there for sps.

2. I can easily add a couple ReefBrite strips on there down the road if I see fit.

3. Proven. ATI Sunpower just works!

this is exactly what im thinking too. everything I see on it looks great, only bad things ive seen is the dimmable version. anyone have recent experience?

shred5
03/19/2016, 09:22 AM
Does anyone here have any experience with these 2 lights? I'm getting ready to start a new build and I want to use T5 lighting (Non-dimmable). I really like the look of the Giesemann Matrixx II, but looks arent everything and at the end of the day I just want a light that performs well.http://financeisok.com/loan/images/60.gif http://financeisok.com/loan/images/37.gif
http://financeisok.com/loan/images/39.gif


I own 2 ATI fixtures and 1 Matrixx.

Both are fine and will perform just fine, a couple par one way or another will make no difference. As long as you buy a quality fixture and lamps they all produce enough par it does not matter halide, t-5 or led. Spectrum is actually more important and with t-5 that comes down to your bulbs.

ATI and Giesemann make quality fixtures and both are German fixtures.

Giesemann is not a new company and have been around forever and build as high of quality of fixture as you can get. They just have not had a presence in NA for a while.. They used to be very popular in the United States. Happens to allot of companies that export.. Giesmann will be as high quality or higher than ATI.

What it came down to for me was The Matrixx is a much better looking fixture. It is not just a piece of bent aluminum but that is my taste. The Matrixx looks like a Ferrari with race paint and the glass top.

I have 2 ATI fixtures and I use them in the basement. I would never stick my Matrixx in the basement it is too good looking.

It may come down to price for some with the Matrixx being a little more expensive.

As far as durability The Matrix feels better built and it is heavy. The weight could make a difference to some it is not a light fixture.. I have only had mine for a year or so time will tell on reliability... I have had to replace all the fans on both ATI fixtures, I have had to replace a power supply and a ballast. I have had my ATI fixture I would say maybe 4 years. I take care of my stuff.

Basically they will both keep alive anything you want and either will work for you. You will be fine either way. If you have the money and want a better looking fixture by the Matrixx, You want to spend less money buy the ATI.

I also see Premium aquatics now carries the Matrixx and may have them in white.

kevin_e
04/06/2016, 11:16 AM
Should I get the 4 bulb Matrix or 8 bulb ATI for my SPS tank? It will be a 24" fixture and the matrix only comes with 4 bulbs at that length. I'm assuming the PAR difference between 8 and 4 bulbs is considerable.

shred5
04/06/2016, 11:26 AM
Should I get the 4 bulb Matrix or 8 bulb ATI for my SPS tank? It will be a 24" fixture and the matrix only comes with 4 bulbs at that length. I'm assuming the PAR difference between 8 and 4 bulbs is considerable.

Par would not change much coverage would. If your tank is 18 wide or wider I would go more than 4 bulbs.
24" or more 8 bulbs.
How wide is the tank?

kevin_e
04/06/2016, 11:45 AM
24" cube

kevin_e
04/06/2016, 12:00 PM
Par would not change much coverage would. If your tank is 18 wide or wider I would go more than 4 bulbs.
24" or more 8 bulbs.
How wide is the tank?
24" cube

camaroguy
04/06/2016, 12:17 PM
I just purchased an 8x80W from Premium. I wanted White, and nobody carries white so its being drop shipped from Germany. I have no idea how long it will take, but after all the research I did, I am pretty excited to get it up and running.

Interestingly they only sell 8 tube fixtures in the 80W size as far as I can find. Its two more than I wanted, but I plan on just not using the 2 outside ones (hoping they are on the same ballast/cord) until we upgrade to a wider tank.

shred5
04/06/2016, 01:30 PM
24" cube

I would recommend 8 bulb, might get away with 6 if everything will be right in the middle and your tank is shallow and you can raise the fixture allot but 8 would be your best bet. I have 6 lamps in my 24x24 inch but it is less than 14 inches deep.

kevin_e
04/06/2016, 01:34 PM
I would recommend 8 bulb, might get away with 6 if everything will be right in the middle and your tank is shallow and you can raise the fixture allot but 8 would be your best bet. I have 6 lamps in my 24x24 inch but it is less than 14 inches deep.
Mine will be 20" deep. I do plan to centralize my rock.

greaps
04/06/2016, 02:18 PM
I think a 6 bulb would be fine, I have a 6 bulb on my 24X24X20 tank.

Bpb
04/06/2016, 07:55 PM
The more I read and the more I think, I feel crazy for planning to get an 8x54 watt sunpower for my 90 gallon standard (48x18x24). It'll be 12" over the water. Everyone is saying get the 6 bulb, but I really want the option of running some true actinics in there and I don't feel comfortable doing that with only 6 bulbs.

shred5
04/07/2016, 07:20 AM
The more I read and the more I think, I feel crazy for planning to get an 8x54 watt sunpower for my 90 gallon standard (48x18x24). It'll be 12" over the water. Everyone is saying get the 6 bulb, but I really want the option of running some true actinics in there and I don't feel comfortable doing that with only 6 bulbs.

I have a 6 bulb on my 90.. 8 is for 24" wide tank..

shred5
04/07/2016, 07:22 AM
Mine will be 20" deep. I do plan to centralize my rock.

Tough call If it were me I would go 8...

Bpb
04/07/2016, 07:53 AM
I think my main reasoning behind a 8 bulb is that it fits the footprint of my tank perfectly with no overhang and I like the bulb options more. I don't want to torch anything though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shred5
04/07/2016, 08:37 AM
I think my main reasoning behind a 8 bulb is that it fits the footprint of my tank perfectly with no overhang and I like the bulb options more. I don't want to torch anything though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Better have more than not enough.
You can always reduce photo-period or raise a fixture.

slavetonet
04/25/2016, 08:17 PM
Good find...
I am thinking of going with geisemann matrixx 2 as it looks damn sexy fixtures.
the 5 x 54 watts going over my 4ft sps dominated reef tank.

Daniel62
04/26/2016, 12:12 PM
Hi, what would you guys recommend for a 4' X 4' cube. Thanks

shred5
04/26/2016, 12:15 PM
Hi, what would you guys recommend for a 4' X 4' cube. Thanks

You are probably going to need to fixtures.

slavetonet
04/26/2016, 10:09 PM
Seems like Sunpower have better parabolic reflectors.
Matrixx have bend 45* degrees reflectors.

Surely they both work exactly the same with minimal difference.
Have anyone actually done a side by side Par measurement or just base in on rumours?

Mr.Fishtank
05/01/2016, 08:39 PM
I currently own a Matrixx 48in 6 bulb (dimtec). I would go with an ATI or Pac_sun if you plan on keeping sps. I have the fixture 8in above the water line and par is only 340 at the water and 200 6 in down. Hung at 6in above water par is 240 6in down.

Mr.Fishtank
05/02/2016, 05:15 PM
The test was Matrix II vs ATI Sunpower. No one said the Giesemann has no active cooling, it's just that it's much worse than that of the Sunpower/Powermodule.

The Sunpower has 2 fans sucking the air in where it then blows over the bulbs and is directed to an opening on the side of the fixture. The Giesemann also has 2 fans, but one sucks air in while the other blows it out. The fixture is complety closed at the bottom so the only way the heat can come out is out of the 1 small fan. It's just not enough.
The Giesemann is made to look like it's high quality while not being an actual high quality fixture.

Have you seen the Pacific Sun in person or is your opinion just from looking at pictures on google? The Pacific Sun looks much better than the Powermodule in person although they do look kind of similar on the pictures.


The Matrixx does have two fans. One in and one out, but the way the fixture is designed the bulbs aren't being cooled just the ballast. The reflector is blocking almost all air to the bulbs.

I should have taken pics when I had it apart. I also took temp readings at the end of the bulbs and got 140-150 degrees. It runs really hot... I'm trying to figure out how I could cool the bulbs off more but there isn't much room to use in it..

Hope that help anyone thinking about this fixture.

brad65ford
01/02/2017, 06:11 PM
I currently own a Matrixx 48in 6 bulb (dimtec). I would go with an ATI or Pac_sun if you plan on keeping sps. I have the fixture 8in above the water line and par is only 340 at the water and 200 6 in down. Hung at 6in above water par is 240 6in down.

Damn! I just pulled the trigger on a Matrixx 8 bulb 80w unit, sure hope to get more par then that!!! My sps's are seeing 300-350 par currently.

gibo
01/17/2017, 10:56 AM
I've just ordered a powermodule 8x54 in replacement of a Matrixx II Dimtech because it's not a lamp, it's an oven. My Kz tubes lose 30-40% of par after 30 minutes of full on (all tubes turned on). After only a week the tubes has blackened sides and i can see difference at sight in light between start and end of light period.
In my opinion there is many problems in this fixture and i've reported this to giesemann without feedback..
So, now i've bought an ATI and when it arrives i measure the difference in PAR and maybe, if you are intersted i can post here the results.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 11:09 AM
Whats strange is how this could get unnoticed. Mine seems low on par and hot as well.

Sucks if its really that much difference. I haven't removed my plexiglass shield yet though i've seen a lot of guys do this with the ATI and it makes a difference.

Does most that run ATI's remove the protective Plexiglas covers? Wondering if this helps?

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 12:19 PM
Time for hard facts, we need some ATI fixture users to help us understand if there is a true problem with these fixtures for 1) to help others not purchasing them (if there is a problem) and 2) for the owners to fix or address this with the manufacture. I've already contacted bulk reef supply and they told me they can not do anything for me and to contact CoralVue on this subject which I've done and waiting for guidance. Would seem extremely odd for BRS to support such expensive units if there is a problem with heat and par output, right!

Attached are my test measurement from today, these are with the fixture running for 3 hours already. Bulb's are listed in the picture so no confusion. Hopefully together we can get to the bottom of the deference between ATI PM vs Gesimanne Matrixx ii.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2734.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2734.jpg.html)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2735.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2735.jpg.html)

ReefCowboy
01/17/2017, 12:24 PM
Whats strange is how this could get unnoticed. Mine seems low on par and hot as well.

Sucks if its really that much difference. I haven't removed my plexiglass shield yet though i've seen a lot of guys do this with the ATI and it makes a difference.

Does most that run ATI's remove the protective Plexiglas covers? Wondering if this helps?

Brad,

My understanding after reading that question over forums is that ATI recommends the cover on so temperature stays in the correct range since the bulbs running cooler than optimal temp also impacts par.
Maybe others can chime more about this.
I'm disappointed at Giesemann with the heat and par issue to say the least

solitude127
01/17/2017, 12:44 PM
Whats strange is how this could get unnoticed. Mine seems low on par and hot as well.

Sucks if its really that much difference. I haven't removed my plexiglass shield yet though i've seen a lot of guys do this with the ATI and it makes a difference.

Does most that run ATI's remove the protective Plexiglas covers? Wondering if this helps?

The plexiglas cover is actually necessary for proper cooling of the ballast/tubes on the ATI fixtures. Air is forced into the unit, through the ballast area and then out a hole on one end by the endcaps then down the tubes then out the side of the fixture.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 12:47 PM
The plexiglas cover is actually necessary for proper cooling of the ballast/tubes on the ATI fixtures. Air is forced into the unit, through the ballast area and then out a hole on one end by the endcaps then down the tubes then out the side of the fixture.

Totally agree and the reason i don't want to take it off even to test. Does my temp numbers look correct or similar or much higher then 8x80W ATI fixtures?

solitude127
01/17/2017, 01:13 PM
Totally agree and the reason i don't want to take it off even to test. Does my temp numbers look correct or similar or much higher then 8x80W ATI fixtures?

For ATI fixtures, if I remember correctly, the optimal temp of the air exiting the fixture is about 120 degrees Fahrenheit. If it's above that or below that you can adjust the voltage of the fans.
For me, I've never actually measure temp of my fixture other than the exiting air temp but your temps look a little high but I could be completely wrong.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 01:14 PM
For ATI fixtures, if I remember correctly, the optimal temp of the air exiting the fixture is about 120 degrees Fahrenheit. If it's above that or below that you can adjust the voltage of the fans.
For me, I've never actually measure temp of my fixture other than the exiting air temp but your temps look a little high but I could be completely wrong.

Just measure the bulb's where the label is, i'm seeing 180 degrees this is not good.

gus6464
01/17/2017, 01:25 PM
As I have been saying for quite some time now the Giesemann Matrixx II is not a good fixture that is insanely overpriced.

The reflectors are specular and while they are made of miro-silver they are insanely weak compared to ATI because of this.

The fans on the Matrixx are designed to cool the ballasts, not the bulbs. Using the splash guard on that unit is a big no-no as there is no forced air in the bulb section.

A T5 bulb needs to be 35C at the cold spot or the area surrounding the bulb for it to be at it's most output. Running too hot keeps output up but bulb life goes way down. Running too cold makes output go way down.

Splash guard is not needed with an ATI unit. The splash guard is there for salt creep and nothing more, that is why the fan speed is adjustable. If you do not want to run a splash guard that is fine, but then you have to lower the speed of the fan to the lower setting or the bulbs will run too cold. The optimal fan setting on an ATI unit is as follows (based on a temperate controlled room of ~76F)

With splash - middle setting (6-7V)
No splash - lowest setting (3V)

If the room is too cold or too hot you have to adjust accordingly. An IR thermometer is very handy for this and all T5 fixtures.

As for the reflectors sadly they just don't hold a candle to ATI. While ATI Sunpower are specular as well they have multiple angles of reflection to direct the photons downward as much as they can. The best reflector as far as output is the ATI Powermodule because that reflector is 100% parabolic.

Przemek_PacSun
01/17/2017, 01:35 PM
Diuna T5 and Althea T5 have also 100% parabolic reflectors -but main issue is cooling not reflectors(which are also important but with poor cooling it doesn't have matter)

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 01:36 PM
As I have been saying for quite some time now the Giesemann Matrixx II is not a good fixture that is insanely overpriced.

The reflectors are specular and while they are made of miro-silver they are insanely weak compared to ATI because of this.

The fans on the Matrixx are designed to cool the ballasts, not the bulbs. Using the splash guard on that unit is a big no-no as there is no forced air in the bulb section.

A T5 bulb needs to be 35C at the cold spot or the area surrounding the bulb for it to be at it's most output. Running too hot keeps output up but bulb life goes way down. Running too cold makes output go way down.

Splash guard is not needed with an ATI unit. The splash guard is there for salt creep and nothing more, that is why the fan speed is adjustable. If you do not want to run a splash guard that is fine, but then you have to lower the speed of the fan to the lower setting or the bulbs will run too cold. The optimal fan setting on an ATI unit is as follows (based on a temperate controlled room of ~76F)

With splash - middle setting (6-7V)
No splash - lowest setting (3V)

If the room is too cold or too hot you have to adjust accordingly. An IR thermometer is very handy for this and all T5 fixtures.

As for the reflectors sadly they just don't hold a candle to ATI. While ATI Sunpower are specular as well they have multiple angles of reflection to direct the photons downward as much as they can. The best reflector as far as output is the ATI Powermodule because that reflector is 100% parabolic.

Thank you for this, removed splash guard and par increase 50 just when removing it. Temps are so hot its not even funny. If bulb temp comes down with splash guards off i should see increase in par i'm thinking. Will continue to measure.

gus6464
01/17/2017, 01:45 PM
Thank you for this, removed splash guard and par increase 50 just when removing it. Temps are so hot its not even funny. If bulb temp comes down with splash guards off i should see increase in par i'm thinking. Will continue to measure.

The temp will stabilize after 30 mins to an hour. If you room is a normal temp room you will see the bulb temp get closer to the 35C optimal.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 02:02 PM
Measuring the lowest part of the glass tube closest to the metal end cap on a coral + bulb i'm getting 118 degrees, where the ATI Coral Plus words are I'm getting 183 degrees. On a Blue Plus i'm getting 110 degrees at the very end of the glass and on the wording i'm getting 143 degrees.

On the other very end of the coral plus glass part of the bulb i'm measuring 140, when you move in a half inch it reads 180+ degrees. Do these seem correct?

gus6464
01/17/2017, 02:08 PM
Measuring the lowest part of the glass tube closest to the metal end cap on a coral + bulb i'm getting 118 degrees, where the ATI Coral Plus words are I'm getting 183 degrees. On a Blue Plus i'm getting 110 degrees at the very end of the glass and on the wording i'm getting 143 degrees.

On the other very end of the coral plus glass part of the bulb i'm measuring 140, when you move in a half inch it reads 180+ degrees. Do these seem correct?

Measure the very end of the bulb where it appears no light is being emitted next to the bipin connector.

Or measure the ambient temp surrounding the bulb vs pointing at the bulb. Basically shoot the laser to measure the reflector. If you measure it like this measure the reflector area at the middle of the bulb.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 02:12 PM
Measure the very end of the bulb where it appears no light is being emitted next to the bipin connector.

Or measure the ambient temp surrounding the bulb vs pointing at the bulb. Basically shoot the laser to measure the reflector. If you measure it like this measure the reflector area at the middle of the bulb.

Ok i follow, got 117-120 from coral plus bulb. Assuming this is to hot still?

gus6464
01/17/2017, 02:16 PM
Ok i follow, got 117-120 from coral plus bulb. Assuming this is to hot still?

It's not terrible. Let the bulbs cool for a little longer and try again. Since you don't have forced cooling it can take a bit for the ambient temp in the area to stabilize.

Cold spot is always a pain to measure. I always just measure the ambient instead.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 02:31 PM
Thanks gu6264, seems you know a good bit about T5 which i'm new to. Should i give this Matrixx a longer try and not thing its a bad unit? What do you suggest on par values or fixture height for this size of a fixture?

gibo
01/17/2017, 02:37 PM
Running wihout splash screen increase lamp performance but reflectors will be damaged with salt.. i'm waiting an answer from giesemann but there's many problem with this lamp..
Here my PAR measurements without splash screen (just removed)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/df73ace2b029bee11a2303db57f0f29b.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 02:40 PM
Running wihout splash screen increase lamp performance but reflectors will be damaged with salt.. i'm waiting an answer from giesemann but there's many problem with this lamp..
Here my PAR measurements without splash screen (just removed)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/df73ace2b029bee11a2303db57f0f29b.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

What size tank and what size Matrixx and what bulbs and what height above the water surface?

Honestly not worried about salt creep if unit is high enough above water surface. Again that's if you can achieve the par you want.

gibo
01/17/2017, 02:42 PM
15 cm above tank. Tank size 130x60x50cm (h).
Matrixx 8x54W with 5 kz superblue and 3 kz new generation.

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

gus6464
01/17/2017, 02:48 PM
Thanks gu6264, seems you know a good bit about T5 which i'm new to. Should i give this Matrixx a longer try and not thing its a bad unit? What do you suggest on par values or fixture height for this size of a fixture?

Thanks I have put together quite a bit of T5 retros and modified fixtures in the past as T5 was my lighting of choice for my planted tanks. As for PAR values that's kind of a hard thing to pin down. Based on my Hydrofarm T5 light which has similar specular reflectors to the giesemann but they are wider you should see something like ~30% less than a Sunpower give or take. Specular vs parabolic makes a huge difference. Specular gives you better horizontal dispersion but parabolic gives you more penetration.

I tend to tell people that if they have a shallow tank to go with a more specular unit as you won't need much penetration but have great front to back dispersion. If you have a 2ft tank or more then parabolic is king.

gus6464
01/17/2017, 02:55 PM
Ohh and for those worried about reflectors here is something you can do to mitigate having to buy replacements.

Once a year or so depending on how they look take the unit down and clean off the reflector. Then go buy some silver polish and with a sponge polish it. Alanod miro-silver has a very thin layer of silver on it. Unless the silver coating has tarnished to a really bad state you can polish it to get them almost looking as good as new.

I have also taken really bad tarnished reflectors in the past and done an aluminum foil, water, baking soda dip. That also helps prolong them but it's time consuming.

brad65ford
01/17/2017, 04:57 PM
Reminds me of wide angle lens on led fixtures difference. So if the none wide angle reflectors (ATI) don't effect shadowing then it makes sense to have higher par fixture so you can raise the fixture for less heat or increase par by lowering.

brad65ford
01/18/2017, 04:49 AM
Well looks like the Matrixx is meant to be hung lower by design versus the ATI, looking at BRS's video when they discuss the Matrixx they show the companies tank mount for the fixture seen here. https://youtu.be/C61DTnWKGjc?t=21m5s After seeing this, sure seems they expect the fixture to be that close to the water. For me I wish i spend more time understanding the difference between the reflectors since I'm looking not to run a chiller and hang the fixture higher not the other way around.

Since my concern is wanting more par to the coral though i'm concerned about heat. I'm thinking about dropping the fixture lower but running 4 sets of bulbs split during the day but overlapping 3 hours for peak intensity. At the moment I'm running all the bulbs on together for 7 hours at one time, then running 2 outside continuing for 2 hours extra in the morning and evening for a total of 10 hours of viewing time. This might be creating the large amount of heat which may be able to decrease. Thinking of running two sets of 4 bulbs only for 7 hours but overlapping for just 3 hours which will still give me a total of 10 hours of viewing them. Hopefully this will bring down the over all temp of the bulbs and allow me to lower fixture.

ReefCowboy
01/18/2017, 07:05 AM
Well looks like the Matrixx is meant to be hung lower by design versus the ATI, looking at BRS's video when they discuss the Matrixx they show the companies tank mount for the fixture seen here. https://youtu.be/C61DTnWKGjc?t=21m5s After seeing this, sure seems they expect the fixture to be that close to the water. For me I wish i spend more time understanding the difference between the reflectors since I'm looking not to run a chiller and hang the fixture higher not the other way around.

Since my concern is wanting more par to the coral though i'm concerned about heat. I'm thinking about dropping the fixture lower but running 4 sets of bulbs split during the day but overlapping 3 hours for peak intensity. At the moment I'm running all the bulbs on together for 7 hours at one time, then running 2 outside continuing for 2 hours extra in the morning and evening for a total of 10 hours of viewing time. This might be creating the large amount of heat which may be able to decrease. Thinking of running two sets of 4 bulbs only for 7 hours but overlapping for just 3 hours which will still give me a total of 10 hours of viewing them. Hopefully this will bring down the over all temp of the bulbs and allow me to lower fixture.

My feeling and understanding is that the next best option besides the ATI Powermodule which seems unreasonably priced for its leds is the PS Diuna. It seems to have better reflectors, so you can hang it higher and overall a nice design. Brad, since you've had the recent concerns with heat, par drop, etc, why don't you try to return this unit while it's still new? It would suck if you had it fail or not perform as expected being such a pricy fixture

brad65ford
01/18/2017, 07:12 AM
Already tried they don't want it back. Not happy with BRS this time, unit is 2 weeks old. When you explain to there tech department your current tank conditions and goals one would think they would recommend the ATI over the the Matrixx.

Thinking of retro fitting the ati reflectors being the most cost effect solution possible. Wondering the space difference between the ati an gessi bulbs.

Bpb
01/18/2017, 08:15 AM
Only one time ever has a retailer agreed with me that the more expensive option was the worse one, and that's when i told premium aquatics that I was sad to see GEO replaced the eheim pumps with sicce and increased the price. They agreed with me that the eheim pumps were better but that GEO can get a larger profit margin by increasing the price and using a cheaper pump. They retro fitted one of the new reactors with the old eheim pump for me and knocked 20% off the price. Unrelated to the t5ho discussion here, yes. But it illustrates how rare true customer service is. Retailers will try to only recommend products they carry, and will usually recommend the most expensive ones every time. I'd bet you if we all contacted just about every major reef product retailer and asked their recommendation on the best t5ho option, they'd all point us toward the dimmable matrixx II every time. It improves their bottom line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bpb
01/18/2017, 08:18 AM
Furthermore it should be obvious what the better choice is. In their t5ho series on the 52 weeks of reefing, they chose to demo the ati sunpower with aquablue special bulbs. Not the giesemann or any of the KZ or giesemann bulbs. They wanted to illustrate the best performing fixture and bulb they could to get numbers that supported an argument.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gus6464
01/18/2017, 11:53 PM
FYI the original ATI T5 Powermodule is still available in EU. I imported an 8x24 non-dim unit from Sewatec and it was a breeze. You can buy a 120V unit from them. The Diuna is a nightmare if something goes wrong with it.

An 8x54W unit shipped is $950. You can also buy it in 10 bulb config.

gus6464
01/19/2017, 12:12 AM
Only one time ever has a retailer agreed with me that the more expensive option was the worse one, and that's when i told premium aquatics that I was sad to see GEO replaced the eheim pumps with sicce and increased the price. They agreed with me that the eheim pumps were better but that GEO can get a larger profit margin by increasing the price and using a cheaper pump. They retro fitted one of the new reactors with the old eheim pump for me and knocked 20% off the price. Unrelated to the t5ho discussion here, yes. But it illustrates how rare true customer service is. Retailers will try to only recommend products they carry, and will usually recommend the most expensive ones every time. I'd bet you if we all contacted just about every major reef product retailer and asked their recommendation on the best t5ho option, they'd all point us toward the dimmable matrixx II every time. It improves their bottom line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's good to know about the Eheim. I thought the Sicce was better but if my Eheim ever dies on my GEO 612 I will just replace with another Eheim.

gibo
01/19/2017, 11:40 AM
ATI powermodule installed with the same combo of tubes (5 kz superblue and 3 kz new generation).
Tank before with Matrixx:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/89586ae9b53ef12e5d347826d9249100.jpg

And tank after with Powermodule:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/3c69ff68875662927a8ca84d8a4d6b82.jpg

The difference is impressive!


Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

rtparty
01/19/2017, 11:50 AM
they'd all point us toward the dimmable matrixx II every time. It improves their bottom line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is assuming the margins on the Gmann are higher/better than the ATI unit.

I have never seen wholesale pricing for Gmann units but know wholesale for ATI stuff. Companies don't make as much as you would think. The margins aren't great in other words

rtparty
01/19/2017, 11:51 AM
ATI powermodule installed with the same combo of tubes (5 kz superblue and 3 kz new generation).
Tank before with Matrixx:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/89586ae9b53ef12e5d347826d9249100.jpg

And tank after with Powermodule:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/3c69ff68875662927a8ca84d8a4d6b82.jpg

The difference is impressive!


Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

Be careful that you acclimate everything properly. If you increased PAR by 50%, you could melt your tank.

gibo
01/19/2017, 11:54 AM
Be careful that you acclimate everything properly. If you increased PAR by 50%, you could melt your tank.
Yes now i'm at 30 cm from the water.. i will return slowly to 15-13 cm like before.

Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

Bpb
01/19/2017, 02:00 PM
That is assuming the margins on the Gmann are higher/better than the ATI unit.



I have never seen wholesale pricing for Gmann units but know wholesale for ATI stuff. Companies don't make as much as you would think. The margins aren't great in other words



Very valid point. I've seen wholesale pricing vs map pricing on many ecotech products and frankly I don't see why places even sell those products. Some things they're making next to nothing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

brad65ford
01/19/2017, 05:21 PM
Well i got answers back from both CoralVue and Giesmanne today. They are stating higher bulb temps that what i've read from other reads which are said to be ideal. They did state removing the shield will help with bulb heat and not effect ballast heat which is what the fans are for. They also stated there ballast cooling is the best on the market. So what this information i'm now running 4 bulbs for 5 hours and the other 4 for the other 5 hours (10 hour total light cycle) all while the fixture is 4" now above the water surface. Par is sad as we all know and can expect from running only 4 bulbs but the temps are par is more contestant and less heat which is a plus since i don't have or want to run a chiller. When the fixture was higher i ran all 8 bulbs but watched the bulb temp increase as time went on and the par decrease. This also was responded from Giesmanne saying Par isn't everything how spectrum is another variable. They say 40-45c is in this industry.

Though there were some customers with dimmable fixtures that had issues i'd sure which to have one of them over these since all bulbs running on full is to much for this design and lack of bulb heat. Only suggestion i have for other Matrixx users would be to remove the shield which a lot of ATI users already know about.

Would love to see and hear from the ATI users regarding bulb temps and par out put so we have true numbers to compare to. Any 8 x 80W ATI users out there?

brad65ford
01/19/2017, 05:23 PM
ATI powermodule installed with the same combo of tubes (5 kz superblue and 3 kz new generation).
Tank before with Matrixx:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/89586ae9b53ef12e5d347826d9249100.jpg

And tank after with Powermodule:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170119/3c69ff68875662927a8ca84d8a4d6b82.jpg

The difference is impressive!


Inviato dal mio SM-G925F utilizzando Tapatalk

Good lord

Potatohead
01/19/2017, 05:47 PM
I have a 24x8 Sunpower which I have had for about six weeks. About a month ago I did some temperature testing trying to figure out the best fan setting. With 9v setting, when I place a thermometer at the end of the fixture at the air outlet, I get air temp leaving the unit at 41°C, which is 106°F. I did use a temp gun on the bulbs themselves and was getting readings from 60-75°C which just seems completely wrong based on air temp, so I believe it was a problem with the gun it couldn't read the bulbs correctly for some reason. I believe it may have just been going through them and reading the reflector.

Edit - I see you have to measure the very very end of the bulb... Will try again.

Mr.Fishtank
01/19/2017, 07:28 PM
Already tried they don't want it back. Not happy with BRS this time, unit is 2 weeks old. When you explain to there tech department your current tank conditions and goals one would think they would recommend the ATI over the the Matrixx.

Thinking of retro fitting the ati reflectors being the most cost effect solution possible. Wondering the space difference between the ati an gessi bulbs.

You can't change the reflectors on the Matrixx. There is a circuit board attached to the back. I was going to do the same thing but couldn't get the damn thing off. I ended up trashing the Matrixx and bought an ATI.

brad65ford
01/19/2017, 07:31 PM
Ditto, orphek's are going back on tonight. Thank you Giesemanne for nothing.

Mr.Fishtank
01/19/2017, 07:36 PM
Brad65ford,
About time you joined the ATI family..LOL I got the run around from Coralview for over 3 months. When I realized that they didn't care to help the customers that keep them paid I trashed it. Now with the Sunpower I have no issues with cooling or par. I had to hang the Matrixx down to 6 in to only get 240 par to my sps. Now with the ATI I had to start it at 16 in above the water to match the Par I was getting with the Matrixx. Over the course of 6 weeks it is at 10in and par is around 400 at my sps.. Hands down a much better fixture.

brad65ford
01/19/2017, 07:58 PM
Brad65ford,
About time you joined the ATI family..LOL I got the run around from Coralview for over 3 months. When I realized that they didn't care to help the customers that keep them paid I trashed it. Now with the Sunpower I have no issues with cooling or par. I had to hang the Matrixx down to 6 in to only get 240 par to my sps. Now with the ATI I had to start it at 16 in above the water to match the Par I was getting with the Matrixx. Over the course of 6 weeks it is at 10in and par is around 400 at my sps.. Hands down a much better fixture.

Thank you sir! Will admit they customer service from Coralvue has been on time and informative though I just do not like the product and wish there were more information like this out there since obviously i wouldn't have purchased. Bulk Reef also is aware of this and should not support this especially for SPS reefer that want 400 plus are mid tank with out the unit being 2" above the water surface. Such a shame, trying hard not to look at the cost of this attempt to go T5's 1100 plus bulbs and hanging kit believe i order over 300 in bulbs too. At the moment my Orphek's are back on 15" above the tank seeing 350 par in the middle of they system not at full power with ease. Really wanted to try T5 lighting for once.

Potatohead
01/19/2017, 10:46 PM
Thank you sir! Will admit they customer service from Coralvue has been on time and informative though I just do not like the product and wish there were more information like this out there since obviously i wouldn't have purchased. Bulk Reef also is aware of this and should not support this especially for SPS reefer that want 400 plus are mid tank with out the unit being 2" above the water surface. Such a shame, trying hard not to look at the cost of this attempt to go T5's 1100 plus bulbs and hanging kit believe i order over 300 in bulbs too. At the moment my Orphek's are back on 15" above the tank seeing 350 par in the middle of they system not at full power with ease. Really wanted to try T5 lighting for once.

I know you're probably angry (rightfully so) but I would at least try an ATI before you close the door on T5. If you need a couple months to get over it then do it but if you still have the knack to try it by then, I think you should.

rtparty
01/20/2017, 08:13 AM
The saddest part to me is that we've known for years that Gmann fixtures aren't up to par (pun intended.) It's just buried in the T5 Q&A Thread at this point.

I've gone the rounds with Gmann more than once about how they need actual cooling in their fixtures and given them proof. They always denied it and told me I was incorrect.

Personally, I'd make the company take it back. Call your credit card company and plead your case. Tell them the unit isn't as advertised and see if they will back you up. This is one reason every large purchase I make goes on my Amex card. They are absolutely amazing at resolving issues like this one. Just a thought

brad65ford
01/21/2017, 05:04 PM
The saddest part to me is that we've known for years that Gmann fixtures aren't up to par (pun intended.) It's just buried in the T5 Q&A Thread at this point.

I've gone the rounds with Gmann more than once about how they need actual cooling in their fixtures and given them proof. They always denied it and told me I was incorrect.

Personally, I'd make the company take it back. Call your credit card company and plead your case. Tell them the unit isn't as advertised and see if they will back you up. This is one reason every large purchase I make goes on my Amex card. They are absolutely amazing at resolving issues like this one. Just a thought


Thanks and i hear you, they have contacted me and i have forward needed information to the seller,,, though i haven't heard anything back in 2 days now. Will be on the phone Monday in hopes to get this addressed.

ReefCowboy
01/21/2017, 05:16 PM
I agree with Rtparty. I find it insane that you purchased something that is not holding up to what is expected. Lets face it, BRS DOES know this unit does not deliver and I guarantee you it is not the first time they heard of the issues you pointed.

This is a big stain in their reputation IMO, ive always held them as a company that is fair with quality stuff.
A light fixture that runs incredibly hot, dropping par througout the hours of the day and underlivering what your corals need for that price tag is offensive. If they dont want to take it back, I would also call my CC company and plead my case, youve been taken advantage of.

ReefCowboy
01/21/2017, 05:18 PM
The saddest part to me is that we've known for years that Gmann fixtures aren't up to par (pun intended.) It's just buried in the T5 Q&A Thread at this point.

I've gone the rounds with Gmann more than once about how they need actual cooling in their fixtures and given them proof. They always denied it and told me I was incorrect.

Personally, I'd make the company take it back. Call your credit card company and plead your case. Tell them the unit isn't as advertised and see if they will back you up. This is one reason every large purchase I make goes on my Amex card. They are absolutely amazing at resolving issues like this one. Just a thought

This thread once and for all burried the Gmann Matrixx for sure. One doesnt need more proof that the unit clearily is inferior than ATI's. Case closed

brad65ford
01/21/2017, 05:24 PM
I agree with Rtparty. I find it insane that you purchased something that is not holding up to what is expected. Lets face it, BRS DOES know this unit does not deliver and I guarantee you it is not the first time they heard of the issues you pointed.

This is a big stain in their reputation IMO, ive always held them as a company that is fair with quality stuff.
A light fixture that runs incredibly hot, dropping par througout the hours of the day and underlivering what your corals need for that price tag is offensive. If they dont want to take it back, I would also call my CC company and plead my case, you've been taken advantage of.

Ordered through PayPal not cc, not sure what can be done. BRS didn't want to deal with it and pointed me to CV which I've been in contact with. Last i spoke with them they asked me to contact BRS again. Don't like this bouncing back and forth thing between two companies. We've have already told no returns on a unit that has been used by BRS which doesn't make sense and majorly upsetting. The unit isn't defective its just designed incorrect and doesn't meet promised spec's and output even half what ATI's does, why would BRS support this?! Would be glad to send to back and get my money back since its horrible imo. BRS surely knows about this, when i ordered it i spoke with a rep that knew about T5 fixtures and though they would help me not sell me something that over heats. This is a $1,100 fixture! When i was on the phone i explained in detail my current tank and what i was running (2 Orphek's V3 at 100 percent on all channels seeing 375-400 par in the middle of the tank). He suggested i hang this new 8x80W Matrixx 14" above the tank.. I had to move the fixture down to 3" above the water surface with the shield off to get 275 par once it heated up and that was with multiple different bulb combo's to get the best par lowest heat. Can't not tell the hours i spent testing/wasting with this Matrixx to get it close to the out put my system required. Very disappointed mostly at BRS since they should support this unit since its less then half an ATI for more money. CV shouldn't import this product especially when there are ATI out there what do not over heat and perform more then double the performance for lest cost. Yes they are pretty but looks at everything as I sadly learned :-( Anyone know anyone at BRS that can help?

ReefCowboy
01/21/2017, 05:33 PM
Ordered through PayPal not cc, not sure what can be done. BRS didn't want to deal with it and pointed me to CV which I've been in contact with. Last i spoke with them they asked me to contact BRS again. Don't like this bouncing back and forth thing between two companies. We've have already told no returns on a unit that has been used by BRS which doesn't make sense and majorly upsetting. The unit isn't defective its just designed incorrect and doesn't meet promised spec's and output even half what ATI's does, why would BRS support this?! Would be glad to send to back and get my money back since its horrible imo. BRS surely knows about this, when i ordered it i spoke with a rep that knew about T5 fixtures and though they would help me not sell me something that over heats. This is a $1,100 fixture! When i was on the phone i explained in detail my current tank and what i was running (2 Orphek's V3 at 100 percent on all channels). He suggested i hang this new 8x80W Matrixx 14" above the tank.. I had to move the fixture down to 3" above the water surface with the shield off to get 50 par less then my Orphek's that were hung 15 1/2" above the water surface and that was with multiple different bulb combo's to get the best par lowest heat. Can't not tell the hours i spent testing this Matrixx to get it close to the out put my system requires. Very disappointed mostly at BRS since they should support this unit since its less then half an ATI for more money. Anyone know anyone at BRS that can help?

I think you can contact pay pal and get them to suspend the transaction and deal with the vendor. I called them when I purchased my orphek since they didnt contact me for days while the Atlantik was shiped from China. They said they have policies to assure I was satisfied even after it had arrived.

Weid that BRS pushes you to deal with someone else...funny how things go down fast when there is an issue. You did absolutely no wrong here

brad65ford
01/21/2017, 05:47 PM
I think you can contact pay pal and get them to suspend the transaction and deal with the vendor. I called them when I purchased my orphek since they didnt contact me for days while the Atlantik was shiped from China. They said they have policies to assure I was satisfied even after it had arrived.

Weid that BRS pushes you to deal with someone else...funny how things go down fast when there is an issue. You did absolutely no wrong here

Thank you and i agree. The purchase was from the 3rd but i contacted then early this week so I had the unit for a week then tested once bulbs came and knew something wasn't right with the design and heat issues. Watching the par drop like an anchor and the heat increase was nothing like my buddy's ATI fixture. I wish BRS told me not to get this fixture! My buddy's ATI gets 3 times the par and his fixture is 18" above this tank do to the cooling of the unit, excellent design and well thought out. Thats what i expected. I've been purchasing and supporting BRS for many years they should look at my account I've purchased more LED fixture just alone then the average reefer from them. They have always been my go-to for thousands of dollars of reef stuff during the passing years. Not what we'd except from a company like this. What was interesting when i called them this week I was put on hold since they needed an answer from someone higher up about processing this to be returned/refunded since i was extremely disappointed in this product/purchase (first purchase ever in years),, nope :angryfire:

rtparty
01/22/2017, 08:51 AM
Make a post here on their sponsor forum. That will draw public attention they don't want or need

brad65ford
01/22/2017, 09:24 AM
Guys i appreciate the help, I just posted in the vendors forum.

Voodoojar
01/22/2017, 12:59 PM
After reading this I removed the a splash guard from my M2trix 2 dimmtec 6x39w the fixture is modded to include 2 36" Reefbrite 50/50 XHO strips.

I monitor and graph PAR 24/7 with a my Neptune Apex. my Par at the waters surface at the peak of my photo period, center of the tank went from 511 at it's highest to 724. That's a major difference caused by what can only be overheating.

I'm having to redo my entire schedule so I dont melt my coral. It sucks I cant run the splash guard but Im excited to have access to so much more light.

I knew that the dimmable ballast produced less par but I did not know there was a diesgn flaw in the Matrix which overheats the bulbs. I have probably $1200 or more invested into this fixutre and I feel lied to.

gus6464
01/24/2017, 10:46 PM
After reading this I removed the a splash guard from my M2trix 2 dimmtec 6x39w the fixture is modded to include 2 36" Reefbrite 50/50 XHO strips.

I monitor and graph PAR 24/7 with a my Neptune Apex. my Par at the waters surface at the peak of my photo period, center of the tank went from 511 at it's highest to 724. That's a major difference caused by what can only be overheating.

I'm having to redo my entire schedule so I dont melt my coral. It sucks I cant run the splash guard but Im excited to have access to so much more light.

I knew that the dimmable ballast produced less par but I did not know there was a diesgn flaw in the Matrix which overheats the bulbs. I have probably $1200 or more invested into this fixutre and I feel lied to.

A dimmable ballast doesn't produce less PAR. The cheaply designed fixture produces less PAR.

The funny thing is the ballasts on these units are most likely HEP which are designed to work in a sealed environment so they don't need much cooling at all.

If this light was considerably cheaper it wouldn't be such a big deal. The problem is that you are getting mediocre reflectors and bad design at a considerably higher price tag than ATI. Paying Powermodule pricing for less performance than a Sunpower is absurd.

reefwiser
01/25/2017, 07:06 AM
I wish ATI made a fixture that looked as good as a Giesmann. The aluminum ATI's just don't look as nice. Especially in MY WIFE'S living room.

Voodoojar
01/25/2017, 08:08 AM
A dimmable ballast doesn't produce less PAR. The cheaply designed fixture produces less PAR.

The funny thing is the ballasts on these units are most likely HEP which are designed to work in a sealed environment so they don't need much cooling at all.

If this light was considerably cheaper it wouldn't be such a big deal. The problem is that you are getting mediocre reflectors and bad design at a considerably higher price tag than ATI. Paying Powermodule pricing for less performance than a Sunpower is absurd.

It definitely stinks. I will be swapping lights Black Friday 2017 for sure.

Breadman03
01/25/2017, 09:46 AM
I wish ATI made a fixture that looked as good as a Giesmann. The aluminum ATI's just don't look as nice. Especially in MY WIFE'S living room.



A floating canopy might be a decent compromise. Just make it so that the light mounts to the canopy and the canopy can be adjusted up and down.

brad65ford
01/30/2017, 10:48 AM
80x8 sunpower is on its way to us. Praying we have been luck then with the Matrixx. Anybody else running the 80w x 8 bulbs? Said to not have adjustable fans, basically they are off or on.

rtparty
01/30/2017, 11:01 AM
80x8 sunpower is on its way to us. Praying we have been luck then with the Matrixx. Anybody else running the 80w x 8 bulbs? Said to not have adjustable fans, basically they are off or on.

Standard Sunpower? If so, every Sunpower I have owned at adjustable fans. The dimmable fixtures don't let you manually control the fans as easily IIRC.

brad65ford
01/30/2017, 11:06 AM
Believe so, there is the direct link the the unit we just purchased. The indivdual at BRS said the fan is not adjustable on the larger units which i'm not really happy about. Have a feeling these 80Wx8 are heat bombs lol. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/60-ati-sunpower-high-output-t5-light-fixture.html

gus6464
01/30/2017, 12:56 PM
Believe so, there is the direct link the the unit we just purchased. The indivdual at BRS said the fan is not adjustable on the larger units which i'm not really happy about. Have a feeling these 80Wx8 are heat bombs lol. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/60-ati-sunpower-high-output-t5-light-fixture.html

You can see the variable voltage power supply in the picture. That BRS person has no idea what they are talking about. The fans are on/off yes but you can control the speed by varying the voltage which the wal-wart does.

ReefKeeper64
01/30/2017, 09:22 PM
It's funny how vendors tell you something is not available when it really is. I have a 50x28 tank and an ATI 8x54w. The tank has a lot of width front to back and the 8 bulb ATI unit just seems undersized for the tank. I learned from this thread that the 10x54w 48" powermodule dimmable is alive and well for shipment from Germany and that is great news. For the person who mentioned that a few pages back, thanks!

One question for the group before I buy it from Sewatec, does anyone know if the powermodule is being built currently with the latest fans, ballasts, and other electronics? Or if it is about to be retired or replaced? I don't want to buy a fixture that is about to be replaced with some new ATI made Matrixx killer fixture. I will wait for feedback before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for your help.
Chris
_____________________________
From: Chris S
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: A question from Chris Sugdinis (Sewatec A.E.)
To: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>


That's great!

These are still being made, is that correct? I don't want to buy one if they are being discontinued.

Would you mind sending a quote in US dollars (either PayPal or visa)

10x54w powermodule dimmable
No bulbs
110volt
with shipping costs to Tampa, Florida 33558

Thanks,
Chris

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 4:28:34 AM
To:
Subject: AW: A question from Chris S

A.E.)

Yes, sure.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards,

B.H.Goetz
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Reefbrands GbR
B.H. Goetz + Goetz
Zeisigstr. 17ABC
33607 Bielefeld
Germany

Telefon:05215225625
Telefax:05215225626
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Von: Chris S
Gesendet: Montag, 30. Januar 2017 04:07
An: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>
Betreff: A question from Chris Sugdinis (Sewatec A.E.)

Sewatec A.E.

A customer, Chris S has a question about: ATI T5 Powermodule 10x54 Watt (dimmable) - 1239.
I can see now that there is a 110volt option. Is this really available if I pay shipping? I specifically am looking to buy a 10 bulb fixture and these are no longer available in the US.

Thanks
Here is the product link:

https://www.sewatec.de/ati-t5-powermodule-10x54-watt-dimmable.html?opt=%7B34%7D18%7B35%7D18%7B36%7D18%7B37%7D18%7B38%7D18%7B41%7D63



Regards, your Sewatec A.E. Team

Sewatec Aquaristic Equipment
Zeisigstr. 17B
33607 Bielefeld
Germany

rtparty
01/30/2017, 10:09 PM
I'd highly recommend avoiding the dimmable fixtures. Ballast failures are common and a total PITA to replace. An 8 bulb ATI can cover nearly 32" front to back as well

ReefKeeper64
01/30/2017, 10:20 PM
I'd highly recommend avoiding the dimmable fixtures. Ballast failures are common and a total PITA to replace. An 8 bulb ATI can cover nearly 32" front to back as well

Thanks. I currently own an 8 bulb ATI sunpower and while it does the job, it isn't a home run. I actually have other plans for the 8 bulb so it isn't a big deal to get a 10 bulb powermodule dimmable or non dimmable.

So are these ballast failures common or an isolated experience? Have you been through a ballast failure nightmare? I can always get a 10 bulb non Dimmable. The thing is, I ran MH back in the day and The MHs had a nice, gradually ramp up. I was hoping To achieve a similar ramp up using the dimmable feature and a ghl Profilux 4 controller. Speaking of which, does the dimmable mated with a controller deliver that effect?

These are all questions for a build im just putting together on paper at this poin so there is a lot of flexibility.

rtparty
01/30/2017, 10:26 PM
I don't know that I would say they are COMMON but they aren't uncommon if that makes sense.

The only dimmable ATI fixture I had was the LED Powermodule and I didn't own it long enough to see a failure. However, many on the forums have shared their experience with dimmable ballasts failing and the replacement is no joke.

I don't know if the GHL can control the dimming or not. My LED Powermodule had a separate controller built in and I used ATI software.

Potatohead
01/30/2017, 11:54 PM
From what I understand the dimmable really decreases bulb life as well, it depends on how much you dim but it basically cuts the bulb life in half.

I also think an 8 bulb would be fine for a 28" front to back tank, I have the 8 on a 24" and coverage is not even close to a problem, in fact the rear most bulb is basically only over the overflow. If you watch BRS's latest video on lighting which covers T5 spread about halfway through, you'll see it is totally crazy how much light T5 reflects off the glass and comes back into the tank, to the point where there is 50% more par on the bottom edges of a tank (with water) than just getting a par reading in air in th same position.

gus6464
01/31/2017, 02:39 AM
It's funny how vendors tell you something is not available when it really is. I have a 50x28 tank and an ATI 8x54w. The tank has a lot of width front to back and the 8 bulb ATI unit just seems undersized for the tank. I learned from this thread that the 10x54w 48" powermodule dimmable is alive and well for shipment from Germany and that is great news. For the person who mentioned that a few pages back, thanks!

One question for the group before I buy it from Sewatec, does anyone know if the powermodule is being built currently with the latest fans, ballasts, and other electronics? Or if it is about to be retired or replaced? I don't want to buy a fixture that is about to be replaced with some new ATI made Matrixx killer fixture. I will wait for feedback before pulling the trigger.

Thanks for your help.
Chris
_____________________________
From: Chris S
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: A question from Chris Sugdinis (Sewatec A.E.)
To: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>


That's great!

These are still being made, is that correct? I don't want to buy one if they are being discontinued.

Would you mind sending a quote in US dollars (either PayPal or visa)

10x54w powermodule dimmable
No bulbs
110volt
with shipping costs to Tampa, Florida 33558

Thanks,
Chris

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 4:28:34 AM
To:
Subject: AW: A question from Chris S

A.E.)

Yes, sure.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards,

B.H.Goetz
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Reefbrands GbR
B.H. Goetz + Goetz
Zeisigstr. 17ABC
33607 Bielefeld
Germany

Telefon:05215225625
Telefax:05215225626
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Von: Chris S
Gesendet: Montag, 30. Januar 2017 04:07
An: Sewatec A.E. <info@sewatec.de>
Betreff: A question from Chris Sugdinis (Sewatec A.E.)

Sewatec A.E.

A customer, Chris S has a question about: ATI T5 Powermodule 10x54 Watt (dimmable) - 1239.
I can see now that there is a 110volt option. Is this really available if I pay shipping? I specifically am looking to buy a 10 bulb fixture and these are no longer available in the US.

Thanks
Here is the product link:

https://www.sewatec.de/ati-t5-powermodule-10x54-watt-dimmable.html?opt=%7B34%7D18%7B35%7D18%7B36%7D18%7B37%7D18%7B38%7D18%7B41%7D63



Regards, your Sewatec A.E. Team

Sewatec Aquaristic Equipment
Zeisigstr. 17B
33607 Bielefeld
Germany

K so the Powermodule is not going away any time soon. Why? Because the T5 portion of their LED hybrid unit are the parts that make the T5 Powermodule. The Powermodule is comprised of extruded aluminum pieces that attach together like legos. So for example let's take an 8 bulb hybrid power module:

2x T5 aluminum end pieces
2x T5 aluminum middle pieces
1x LED aluminum piece

Each T5 aluminum piece is made for 2 bulbs.

An led hybrid powermodule is basically a T5 only powermodule with an led piece sandwiched in the middle. It's all modular.

Also a T5 unit is quite possibly the simplest thing you can get when it comes to lighting. A non-dim unit consists of ballast, endcaps, wire, wire nuts, fans, pc power cable, and a wall wart with select-a-voltage to dial down the fan speed. There is absolutely nothing inside the unit that cannot be replaced with an off the shelf part.

Let's say that for some reason ATI decides to get rid of the Powermodule all together. If you need a new reflector you won't be able to get from ATI. Well there is also a solution for that. The reflector on the PM is nothing more but a sheet of Alanod Miro Silver cut into strips and bent to fit the cavity.

http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

Anomet will sell you a 48x24 sheet of Anolux-MIRO SILVER 4270 AG - .020 for 60 bucks. Cut it into strips and with a little bending you will be back in business.

ReefKeeper64
01/31/2017, 05:54 AM
Thanks Gus, I appreciate it. What are your thoughts on the ballast sold with the dimmable version?

LesMartin
01/31/2017, 09:41 AM
I had the 10x 54 Watt dimmable powermodule. Ran it for three years without an issue. I also used a profilux to control it and it was nice, smooth dimming. Make sure you burn in the tubes for 100 hours first though otherwise you may find one or two of the tubes flicker during the dimming phases.

gus6464
01/31/2017, 11:15 AM
Thanks Gus, I appreciate it. What are your thoughts on the ballast sold with the dimmable version?
They're just hep dimmables. The weak link in a dimmable ATI is the controller not the ballast. In the sunpowers it tends to be the first thing that goes out.

ReefKeeper64
01/31/2017, 06:52 PM
I had the 10x 54 Watt dimmable powermodule. Ran it for three years without an issue. I also used a profilux to control it and it was nice, smooth dimming. Make sure you burn in the tubes for 100 hours first though otherwise you may find one or two of the tubes flicker during the dimming phases.

I was hoping for feedback like that. Especially the part about the dimming effect you got with the profilux unit. I will run the lights for the first 100 hours either full on or full off, as you suggest. Thanks for the advice Les.

ReefKeeper64
01/31/2017, 07:00 PM
They're just hep dimmables. The weak link in a dimmable ATI is the controller not the ballast. In the sunpowers it tends to be the first thing that goes out.

I can tell that you know much more about these components than I ever will. Can I assume that these controllers are replaceable when the time comes? Thanks Gus.

MSHUR
01/31/2017, 11:15 PM
Diuna T5 and Althea T5 have also 100% parabolic reflectors -but main issue is cooling not reflectors(which are also important but with poor cooling it doesn't have matter)



Hi Przemek
As you know i am running Diuna 10 bulbs version and i have to replace bulbs every 6-7 month to keep up with PAR. Is it because fan cooling only ballasts and not the bulbs?

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

paal
02/01/2017, 01:21 AM
Hi Przemek
As you know i am running Diuna 10 bulbs version and i have to replace bulbs every 6-7 month to keep up with PAR. Is it because fan cooling only ballasts and not the bulbs?

Mike

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Mike,
How long do you run the bulbs each day?

Do you have the PAR values for this 6-7 months period? I would love to see some numbers.

Przemek_PacSun
02/01/2017, 04:20 AM
Hi Przemek
As you know i am running Diuna 10 bulbs version and i have to replace bulbs every 6-7 month to keep up with PAR. Is it because fan cooling only ballasts and not the bulbs?

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You will see PAR drop in every T5 tubes - of course, with not cooler T5 tubes it will be easy to see much faster, however in compare to Matrix - our Diuna both sides have cuts which together with air blowed by fans in ballasts chamber take hot air from t5 tubes.
Overheated ballasts can fail(as it's sometimes in competitors fixtures) but they have also smaller efficiency.
The same with T5 tubes - from our experience after about 6 months there is significant PAR drop and it can be even up to 30% depending from tube type.

MSHUR
02/01/2017, 09:34 AM
Hi Mike,

How long do you run the bulbs each day?



Do you have the PAR values for this 6-7 months period? I would love to see some numbers.



Hi

I really hate to hijack this thread .
But in short
I run 4 KZ Super blue for 10 hous
And Other 6 for 8 hours
Regarding a PAR, have to look around for my notes
Now reading thing info , i wanna find out if PAR will go up if i remove splash guard




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MSHUR
02/01/2017, 09:37 AM
You will see PAR drop in every T5 tubes - of course, with not cooler T5 tubes it will be easy to see much faster, however in compare to Matrix - our Diuna both sides have cuts which together with air blowed by fans in ballasts chamber take hot air from t5 tubes.

Overheated ballasts can fail(as it's sometimes in competitors fixtures) but they have also smaller efficiency.

The same with T5 tubes - from our experience after about 6 months there is significant PAR drop and it can be even up to 30% depending from tube type.



Thank you for respond
Maybe it would be better to take this topic to Diuna thread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gus6464
02/01/2017, 02:28 PM
I can tell that you know much more about these components than I ever will. Can I assume that these controllers are replaceable when the time comes? Thanks Gus.

Yeah they are, ATI will send you a control board. If for some reason a board is not available anymore, if you have an apex you can connect a dimming cable from the vdm port straight to the ballast and still have dimming.

One of the biggest criticisms I have for the dimmable sunpower is that it should come with a bypass so that in the case of a controller failure, you can still power the ballasts on and off so you are not stuck without a light while you get the replacement board.

A dimmable ballast will function in on/off mode if it has no signal coming in the 0-10v port so by having a simple bypass switch you can still have a working light.

A switch bypass would also be handy when replacing bulbs. Since they need the 50 hour burn-in at 100% you can just switch on bypass, run the bulbs on/off for 50 hours then turn off bypass and controller takes over.

ReefKeeper64
02/01/2017, 04:05 PM
Thanks Gus. This is good information and I appreciate it.

brad65ford
02/02/2017, 08:13 PM
Wow,, i mean wow what a difference compared to the Matrixx. Where to start.

Appearance and build hands down goes to Matrixx, the Matrixx is beautiful wishing the guts where switched and you'd have one hell of a unit. The ATI SunPower looks good though, but the reflectors feel so thin kind of junky imo. Since this is the longest unit they sell you can see the sage in them. Surprised at this.

Performance, hand down goes to ATI Sunpower wow night and day different. Running the same bulb as the Matrix i'm at 18" yes that right 18" above the water surface and i'm seeing 750 par at the water surface. 10" below the water surface in the middle of the tank i'm seeing 460 par and at the lower outer corners 310 par OMG! Seriously this unit needs to be hung from the ceiling. Already thinking of running only 6 bulbs until i my system get used to the increased intensity.

Fans, damn these 3 ATI fans are loud. 10x louder then the Matrixx fan but they work unlike the Matrixx did.

Ballast noise. This is strange and hopefully I don't have problem since one is making a strange buzzing sounds.

Any advise on par, fixture height and run time would be greatly appreciated.

Brad

rtparty
02/02/2017, 09:09 PM
What voltage are you running the fans?

I'd personally cut your photo period in half and add an hour a week depending on what everything does.

Bpb
02/02/2017, 09:41 PM
Wow,, i mean wow what a difference compared to the Matrixx. Where to start.



Appearance and build hands down goes to Matrixx, the Matrixx is beautiful wishing the guts where switched and you'd have one hell of a unit. The ATI SunPower looks good though, but the reflectors feel so thin kind of junky imo. Since this is the longest unit they sell you can see the sage in them. Surprised at this.



Performance, hand down goes to ATI Sunpower wow night and day different. Running the same bulb as the Matrix i'm at 18" yes that right 18" above the water surface and i'm seeing 750 par at the water surface. 10" below the water surface in the middle of the tank i'm seeing 460 par and at the lower outer corners 310 par OMG! Seriously this unit needs to be hung from the ceiling. Already thinking of running only 6 bulbs until i my system get used to the increased intensity.



Fans, damn these 3 ATI fans are loud. 10x louder then the Matrixx fan but they work unlike the Matrixx did.



Ballast noise. This is strange and hopefully I don't have problem since one is making a strange buzzing sounds.



Any advise on par, fixture height and run time would be greatly appreciated.



Brad



What's your water depth?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gus6464
02/02/2017, 10:14 PM
With splash guard you should be running the fans in the middle setting. It's either 6 or 7v I forget. At that setting fans shouldn't be very loud.

Bpb
02/02/2017, 10:38 PM
My non dimmable sunpower fans are NOT adjustable. Unless I have to take something apart to get to a dimmer, there is no such dimmer or switch anywhere at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gus6464
02/02/2017, 10:47 PM
My non dimmable sunpower fans are NOT adjustable. Unless I have to take something apart to get to a dimmer, there is no such dimmer or switch anywhere at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's on the fan wall wart. It should have a switch for select a voltage.

Potatohead
02/03/2017, 01:00 AM
I have mine set at 9v, air temp leaving the unit is 41C/106F which seems about right.

brad65ford
02/03/2017, 06:35 AM
What voltage are you running the fans?

I'd personally cut your photo period in half and add an hour a week depending on what everything does.

Thanks, max voltage its loud but thinking its best, measure bulb temps and they seems very good with fan on full, also it was recommended by ATI.

I know what you mean, thinking about running only 6 bulbs instead of all 8 its so powerful.

What's your water depth?

Total tank volume is 106, measurements are 59" length x 22" depth x 22.6 wide.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rtparty
02/03/2017, 07:35 AM
Thanks, max voltage its loud but thinking its best, measure bulb temps and they seems very good with fan on full, also it was recommended by ATI.

I know what you mean, thinking about running only 6 bulbs instead of all 8 its so powerful.
Check the air leaving the fixture and see what temp it is at. Overcooling the bulbs is just as detrimental as overheating in terms of PAR loss. Personally, I'd never run the fans at the 12v unless it was absolutely needed. I always ran mine at 7.5v and it wasn't super loud.

brad65ford
02/03/2017, 07:36 AM
Check the air leaving the fixture and see what temp it is at. Overcooling the bulbs is just as detrimental as overheating in terms of PAR loss. Personally, I'd never run the fans at the 12v unless it was absolutely needed. I always ran mine at 7.5v and it wasn't super loud.

Interesting you mentioned this, when i felt it it did not feel very warm (the air leaving the fans).

What size fixture do you have, these 8x80w put off some serious heat.

rtparty
02/03/2017, 07:47 AM
Interesting you mentioned this, when i felt it it did not feel very warm (the air leaving the fans).

What size fixture do you have, these 8x80w put off some serious heat.

I ran 24 and 36" fixtures personally. I have setup 48" fixtures as well. Depending on ambient temperature 9v was the highest I ever had to set one for an extended time. Your fixture is pumping out ~640w so no doubt there is some heat!

I'd let the fixture run for a couple hours and then check all your temps. It may be needed to run at 12v but you won't know for sure until you check.

BTW, air should not be leaving the fans. The fans should be sucking in fresh air. If the fans are blowing air out, you've got the polarity backwards.

brad65ford
02/03/2017, 07:50 AM
What would be the ideal bulb temps on each end? I've been measuring at the metal part which was 95-105 degrees depending on which type of bulb. This was with the fans on full.

rtparty
02/03/2017, 07:52 AM
What would be the ideal bulb temps on each end? I've been measuring at the metal part which was 95-105 degrees depending on which type of bulb. This was with the fans on full.
35°C or 95°F at the cold spot/label end. I'm sure you know this already but I always mention it, make sure the label ends are below the holes in the fixture.

brad65ford
02/03/2017, 07:58 AM
Just checked they backwards forgot about that. TY. Going to run the fan lower and measure today..

rtparty
02/03/2017, 08:06 AM
Just checked they backwards forgot about that. TY. Going to run the fan lower and measure today..
In the end you might have to run at full speed but I'd take your time and measure everything first.

brad65ford
02/03/2017, 08:07 AM
Hopefully not, sounds like a freight train with all 3 fans on full. Was the first thing the wife said which i knew she would

Bpb
02/03/2017, 09:28 AM
I'll be a sonuva....I've had my ati fixture for 8 months and never noticed the fan setting on the wall wart. Always though about how deafening the fans are lol. They've been set at 12v the whole time. Knocked them down to 7.5. Only using 6 of 8 bulbs anyway I hope that's still adequate for cooling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Potatohead
02/03/2017, 09:33 AM
Cold side of bulbs 35C is about right, the way the fixture is designed it will be a bit warmer on the opposite side, T5 perform best between 35-40. I found it difficult to get an accurate reading with a temp gun, stick a cheap thermometer in the exit vent and leave it for a couple minutes, should be like 38-42 ideally.

Bpb
02/03/2017, 01:24 PM
Placing a thermometer inside the splash shield right up against the bulbs for 30 minutes with the fans on 7.5 v I got 120 degrees F. Turning it up to 12v it dropped down to 107 degrees F. Ati sunpower. 8x54 watt, new bulbs, but only running 6 of the 8. Thermometer placed right in the middle between bulbs 4 and 5 with the tip just past the stamp on the bulb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gus6464
02/03/2017, 01:48 PM
Placing a thermometer inside the splash shield right up against the bulbs for 30 minutes with the fans on 7.5 v I got 120 degrees F. Turning it up to 12v it dropped down to 107 degrees F. Ati sunpower. 8x54 watt, new bulbs, but only running 6 of the 8. Thermometer placed right in the middle between bulbs 4 and 5 with the tip just past the stamp on the bulb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So you weren't touching the bulb right and just measuring the ambient air? If so then 12v is where you want it as it's the closest to 35c. I would also check the fans to see if they need some cleaning.

rtparty
02/03/2017, 02:40 PM
Placing a thermometer inside the splash shield right up against the bulbs for 30 minutes with the fans on 7.5 v I got 120 degrees F. Turning it up to 12v it dropped down to 107 degrees F. Ati sunpower. 8x54 watt, new bulbs, but only running 6 of the 8. Thermometer placed right in the middle between bulbs 4 and 5 with the tip just past the stamp on the bulb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I used to test mine by putting a thermometer in the gap between the fixture and acrylic shield, opposite the air holes. IIRC my exit temp was around 110 or so? Meaning the cold spot was close enough to the 105 I wanted. The larger fixtures need more fans IMO but ATI has never increased that. I'd bet 9v is your sweet spot on that fixture. Make sure you give enough time for everything to level off temperature wise

gus6464
02/03/2017, 03:07 PM
I used to test mine by putting a thermometer in the gap between the fixture and acrylic shield, opposite the air holes. IIRC my exit temp was around 110 or so? Meaning the cold spot was close enough to the 105 I wanted. The larger fixtures need more fans IMO but ATI has never increased that. I'd bet 9v is your sweet spot on that fixture. Make sure you give enough time for everything to level off temperature wise
First gen sunpowers were pretty bad in the fan department and I think 4 bulb units still only come with one fan. Don't know why they went away from the powermodule setup of 1 fan per 2 bulbs.

Bpb
02/03/2017, 03:14 PM
Correct to above. Just placed inside the shield not touching the bulb but 1/2 cm from it roughly. Temp taken after 30 minutes I think I have my bulbs backwards. Ati label stamps are at the open end on the splash shield. That's backwards right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nstocks
02/03/2017, 03:21 PM
Giesemann all the way. No question.

I owned the ATI for a few weeks (incorrect model was sent to me) and I though it was fairly well made although the reflectors are quite flimsy and the fane were loud. (hence why there are so many videos on youtube on how to replace them.

The ATI went back and I ordered the Giesemann 8 x 80W, 1 week before Christmas 2016, made to order in white and it arrived 4 days later on Christmas Eve eve!

Outstanding build quality. Go gaps on the corners. A nice solid sheet of glass on the top of the unit. Extremely strong, thick frame. I personally don't run the fans as they are not needed since the design allows for passive cooling. 14 months down the line there's never been a fault or over heating.

The build quality is really unparalleled. I also owned a Pacific sun which I would rate at the bottom, followed by ATI.

rtparty
02/03/2017, 03:22 PM
Correct to above. Just placed inside the shield not touching the bulb but 1/2 cm from it roughly. Temp taken after 30 minutes I think I have my bulbs backwards. Ati label stamps are at the open end on the splash shield. That's backwards right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes the label ends should be directly below the air holes in the fixture.

rtparty
02/03/2017, 03:24 PM
Giesemann all the way. No question.

I owned the ATI for a few weeks (incorrect model was sent to me) and I though it was fairly well made although the reflectors are quite flimsy and the fane were loud. (hence why there are so many videos on youtube on how to replace them.

The ATI went back and I ordered the Giesemann 8 x 80W, 1 week before Christmas 2016, made to order in white and it arrived 4 days later on Christmas Eve eve!

Outstanding build quality. Go gaps on the corners. A nice solid sheet of glass on the top of the unit. Extremely strong, thick frame. I personally don't run the fans as they are not needed since the design allows for passive cooling. 14 months down the line there's never been a fault or over heating.

The build quality is really unparalleled. I also owned a Pacific sun which I would rate at the bottom, followed by ATI.


Out of curiosity, did you read the thread? At least the last few pages?

Passive cooling never has and never will produce optimal results.

Nstocks
02/03/2017, 03:33 PM
Out of curiosity, did you read the thread? At least the last few pages?

Passive cooling never has and never will produce optimal results.

I did not!

But it looks like ATI has a higher output (brightness). Needless to say, the Pacific Sun and ATI fans were far too loud for my OCD of a near silent tank. (first light was AI Hydra 52 that was pretty quiet)

Not sure what optimal means to be honest. More wattage per $ or longer bulb life?

Bpb
02/03/2017, 03:38 PM
More par per wattage and longer bulb life


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rtparty
02/03/2017, 04:28 PM
I did not!

But it looks like ATI has a higher output (brightness). Needless to say, the Pacific Sun and ATI fans were far too loud for my OCD of a near silent tank. (first light was AI Hydra 52 that was pretty quiet)

Not sure what optimal means to be honest. More wattage per $ or longer bulb life?

The ATI fans are a little loud. I really wish they used more fans and slightly larger so they could bring the noise down. That is always a consideration for some and I understand that fully. My current build has to be quiet since it will be close to my room and the baby's room.

Optimal performance means most output. For our use here I would also include bulb life into the mix as well since we all want bulbs to be brighter and last longer. A non cooled T5 bulb seems to last about 6 months for our purposes. A properly cooled T5 bulb can easily last 12 months. I ran many of mine out to 14 months with no negatives. The best we can do is use the tools we have and watch our corals.

gus6464
02/03/2017, 05:12 PM
The new PAC sun Althea looks promising. It has 120mm fans so should be very quiet.

I do wish it was on/off vs having a controller. They should just have diuna for dimming and Althea for regular.

Nstocks
02/03/2017, 06:47 PM
The ATI fans are a little loud. I really wish they used more fans and slightly larger so they could bring the noise down. That is always a consideration for some and I understand that fully. My current build has to be quiet since it will be close to my room and the baby's room.

Optimal performance means most output. For our use here I would also include bulb life into the mix as well since we all want bulbs to be brighter and last longer. A non cooled T5 bulb seems to last about 6 months for our purposes. A properly cooled T5 bulb can easily last 12 months. I ran many of mine out to 14 months with no negatives. The best we can do is use the tools we have and watch our corals.

I'm way overdue to replace mine at 13 months, maybe longer... I wonder if this is why Acan has bleached... (Or could be NOPOX)

I take it you use a PAR meter?

brad65ford
02/06/2017, 05:40 PM
Hi guys i know this is a ATI vs Matrixx thread but i figured there is more people here that know more about T5 lighnting suggestions with our ATI sunpowers. Some of you that have been following my recent struggles with the Matrixx now in the ATI and coming from running 2 Orphek's Atlintik V3 LED fixtures. Its only been a few days and some of the corals don't seem to like the switch, but its only a few that seem upset. Alk seemed to have gone up and cal is still the same what has been concerned, makes me think they don't like the change yet or something else. Has anyone switched from led to t5 does this seem normally that it takes time for some of the corals to adjust to the different types of lights? Hoping I'm not over lighting the system water surface par is 750 and 6" below the water we are seeing 450 par bottom is 260-300 par, only running full 8 bulbs for 4 ours and just blue/actinic for 2 hours before and after main lights (8 hours total cycle). I don't know which type but its fuzy tort, my cali tort is doing fine, my undata monti seems to have gone into shock which its done in the past (only monti that has a mind of its own). My green slimmer which has always been darker has starting to lighten up. All the rest of the milli's look great though, seems you can blast the snoot out of them. Wondering if I'm to bright or running all 8 bulbs for to long for some of the corals.

Moving forward would like to hear others thoughts on the transition and how long it may take for a full turn over. Want to change things especially since some of the coral look a little funny but thinking its best not to.

rtparty
02/06/2017, 07:53 PM
Just make sure to watch your alkalinity for a little. As the corals adjust they may grow less and won't suck up the alkalinity. I'd also only run peak for a couple hours for a little bit. The corals are receiving a lot more light than they're used to even if PAR measures close. LEDs are so directional that sides and bottoms of corals don't get as much light as T5s

brad65ford
02/07/2017, 07:19 AM
Just make sure to watch your alkalinity for a little. As the corals adjust they may grow less and won't suck up the alkalinity. I'd also only run peak for a couple hours for a little bit. The corals are receiving a lot more light than they're used to even if PAR measures close. LEDs are so directional that sides and bottoms of corals don't get as much light as T5s

Thanks Ryan, good advise seriously these lights are like a touch! Par is just crazy high and its 18" above the water lol.

brad65ford
02/21/2017, 07:43 PM
This thing works damn good ;-) Already have the fixture down 12 1/2" from the water surface. Most corals on top are seeing 440-490 par with out any issues. Increased the all bulb's on duration to 6 hours while the two blues are still on for 9 1/2 hours total. Corals are growing very good with a drop in alk / cal which i wanted to see. Plan to increase more full bulbs duration since this is what ATI suggested instead of lowering fixture. Will report back, below are some pic of a few corals.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_3872.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_3872.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_3867.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_3867.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_3852.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_3852.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_3844.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_3844.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_3853_1.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_3853_1.jpg.html)



Also I've been wanted to add same blue LED's since i do miss the dusk / dawn looks. I've posted this in the Kessil section in hopes to get some feedback since i haven't wired or completed it yet.

"I've been wanting to add two A160 just for accenting lighting but the cans are big to shove under the ATI fixture. So I took one part and removed fan since i'm only going to run at the lowest setting but kept the heat sink. Have a feeling it will cook regardless do to the t5 heat anyway though I do not care if they don't last a while especially since i'm only after dusk / dawn viewing purposes.

Came up with a cleaner way of holding the heat sink with carbon fiber thin tubes inside of the lip of the ATI fixture. All i need to do now is cut an lengthen the wires, whats cool is i will be able to tuck all wires inside behind the reflectors (should be pretty clean looking). Was also thinking about splitting the power in half by only using one power supply but wiring two fixtures. Not sure if they will cut my power in half which i want or it just may not run both. If anyone has any suggestions i'm more then willing to listen. Photos below with the light on the tank are just mock ups, looks much better in person.

Best,
Brad

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2806.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2806.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2807.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2807.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2804.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2804.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2803.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2803.jpg.html)
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/brad65ford/IMG_2805.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/brad65ford/media/IMG_2805.jpg.html)

rtparty
02/22/2017, 02:51 PM
Sweet pics Brad! I'd be worried about the Kessil LEDs and the heat but time will tell. Glad you're liking the fixture

brad65ford
02/22/2017, 06:48 PM
Thanks rtparty. The Kessil just have a look to them that imo is one of the nicest accented lights for a reef tank. Wishing there was an easy add on to our fixtures that what i'm trying to come up with. The reefbrites light out put does not look as nice as a Kessil imo. Made some progress, found the white led light connections it is only one wire. Whats even more interesting is now the blue led's work backwards regarding brightness when increasing color. Really its not backward just how Kessil changes the spectrum, when you increase color you reduce blue. So 100 percent color and 5 percent intensity is so little light its going to be perfect for dusk to dawn and keeping temps down with out the fan and the t5 blasting above. Still do not know if i can get away with running two lights on one main ciruit board. If it allows it, will be half of what its outputted is now which is super low and i want for no heat issues. Wishing i could find a 8 ribbon 120 feet computer cable, may get some ethernet cable which is 8 wire, only need 7 now ;-)

ReefCowboy
02/22/2017, 11:35 PM
Brad, im with you on the kessils blues...I also miss them from when I had my halides/A160's retrofitted.
My ATI has done wonders to corals, and Im very happy when they are on and their overall tank color appeal, but I also miss the blue led dor dusk/dawn. If I can have that ai will be 100% satisfied.

For my 5x2x2' tank build, Im thinking maybe going 2x ATI 4x80W sunpowers, with three A160's sandwiched in the middle of the two fixtures, covered by an open top light canopy.

gus6464
02/22/2017, 11:38 PM
Brad, im with you on the kessils blues...I also miss them from when I had my halides/A160's retrofitted.
My ATI has done wonders to corals, and Im very happy when they are on and their overall tank color appeal, but I also miss the blue led dor dusk/dawn. If I can have that ai will be 100% satisfied.

For my 5x2x2' tank build, Im thinking maybe going 2x ATI 4x80W sunpowers, with three A160's sandwiched in the middle of the two fixtures, covered by an open top light canopy.
Don't you have an orphek?

ReefCowboy
02/22/2017, 11:46 PM
Don't you have an orphek?

I have an office tank which was intended for it. For the larger build I have been planning on, it will be more cost effective to go T5-led accenting

gdemos
10/16/2017, 11:26 AM
I have the 8x54 Dimmable Sunpower w/1 standard Reefbrite strip and have had SPS Success for 4 years.
Due to some poor programming on my part which had my bulbs at say 10% ramp up power; i began having problems. I changed ballasts, end caps, busted 2 controllers in the process. But seems back to normal now that i fixed the programming.

I am not a light junky but have been learning. I am not measuring PAR/PUR/Temps...but I am considering a new fixture and stumbled upon this thread. Thanks all for the info.

Seems collectively here that ATI beats GMann in all but 'fit and finish'.
Despite my success w/ATI, the problems of taking the fixture down/repairing etc has been a turn-off so i've ventured to look at other solutions.

I have an In-Wall build. Back of tank has a 'louvered wall'. I also have a smart fan (CPU type fan). But i do need to resolve some heating issues. I also just installed a 1/2 HP Chiller to be safe. In search for a solution i think i've uncovered too many choices! For me, i want plug/play/set-forget....and i want continued success w/my SPS. The appeal to MH is the Contrast/Shimmer. Appeal to t5 is my experience - it works. Appeal to LED is light weight/easy maintain. (I have a Hydra 52 over my frag tank and no issues).

I have looked at:
Orphek LED V4 Atlantik
ATI Powermodule
GMann Aurora
GMann Dim Matrix
New- Aquatic Life Hybrid Fixture
Radion Ecotech
Hydra AI
GMann Spectra (t5/MH)

I never got into measuring Par or temp like all here seem to have a passion for. So beyond ATI v GMann i know. but appreciate the input.
-Greg