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Sk8r
02/05/2016, 02:09 PM
I'm trying to put together some info for New to the Hobby folk who are considering LED lighting.
Can some knowledgeable people answer the following?
1. Reef LED versus fish-only LED---how to buy. What to consider.
2. Cost advantage? or is it a wash, if you were absolutely starting from no-lights?
3. What is par?
4. How does width and depth of tank affect the brand you buy and the number of units you need?
5. What about pre-set programs? Doing your own?
6. What about building your own?
7. Advice for running LED in your tank: percentage of power, etc. Acclimation to light. Special care when lights come on after a long period of darkness, say, a power outage lasting more than a day.
.....and any other aspect you think useful.

FreedR
02/05/2016, 02:24 PM
Thanks for starting this! Comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm about to get my 75g box of air back wet again and full of reef. I need to refurbish the hood, and had MH + actinics, but am considering LEDs. Looking forward to learning more from others' experience.

shifty51008
02/05/2016, 04:37 PM
Good thread to start as there is a learning curve with led's that alot of people dont know about. They are not just a plug and play setup like t5's, pc's, and mh's were.

Sk8r
02/05/2016, 10:46 PM
Well, I've tried this info-gathering in 3 different places, and no info, which I find quite strange.
I'll fill you in on my choice and why, which is driven by a bulb-hungry MH/HO combo rig, for an lps tank...good, but huge, and power-hungry AND you have to change out the bulbs. It was a great light kit for my 54, but not enough for my 30x30x30 quarter-cylinder 105 gallon. I was having mystery problems, and began to ask myself if it could really be the lights.
Yes. It was.

So...my next problem: that 30" deep. I began to realize most lights don't do well quite that deep. THat's going to limit my selection: there's one commercial model: Radion Pro, that will handle the depth. THe other choice would be to try to DIY a kit that would work...but DIYing a kit for an already problematic situation was offputting.
I'm quite handy and tech-savvy, but I don't have the time needed to get into the research that it would take to DIY or go from kit---PROBABLY I could do it, but it's an expensive mistake if I can't.

So, I bit the bullet and got the pricier version of the Radions, the Pro, which can do the depth, and my next question is whether they could handle the width. THat's 30".

Quarter-cylinder tank shape means I can do a pyramid rock stack. That brought me within the profile of this unit. Now, here is where Radion's info is a wee bit short....they don't give their profile in inches. They recommend it for 'deep' and also for 'wide.'

I can say it's worked. I didn't get two things, the hanging kit (I have a canopy) and the unit that talks to your computer (it has a usb I leave plugged in, which I can plug into a laptop.) I mounted it directly to the canopy lid with 4 keyhole brackets 'stopped' from movement (because I don't want to have the unit fall off.)

I could only afford one of these.

It lets you arrange your own schedule, eminently modifiable, and there are people posting their settings; but Radion also provides a number of good preset programs. I haven't used the thunderstorms or the directional sun, but I have engaged the moon phase that controls the night lighting. I did use a preset program, one called something like Radiance, that just showcases the color changes, dawn to dark, and it turns out to give the fish their choice about when to be out. Not surprisingly, they kind of take cover during the bright light. I'm running it on 50% output, and the corals are about 8" from the bottom---this is a 'starting out' phase tank.

You also have to be VERY careful not to let your unit get wet, and in my canopy this meant putting a glass between the unit and the water: it has not affected the corals, to my observation.

As far as what you have to do to maintain it---power outage happens, light comes on, and it comes on at the correct phase for the time of day. It remembers. You get a new coral and want to do light-acclimation---it has a setting for that. Tell it how many days you want this to run, and it does the figuring turns itself on and off and reduces the percentage, and then at the end of the period, gets itself back to its regular schedule.

Want to change things---attach the computer, tell it, and detach the computer.

---
Now, we have a Marineland LED on the freshwater tank, that does very nicely for freshwater planted and cost half what the Radion did. It however mounts on stilts above the water, and having learned from one unit blown by water, we mounted the next one on a glass bridge we built to protect it. It's a nice dependable unit, but doesn't do phases---it's just on or it's off; and if you have a power failure with this one, you have to find a way to turn it back on at precisely 3pm (set a timer) so that it will get itself back on schedule. If you have a fish-only and don't mind a lower light level (the fish actually like it) this is a good affordable unit. They're both LEDs and very apt for what they do.

Those are the only two reviews I can give by experience, and it's not what you'd call 'enlightened,' pardon pun, but it is what I have found in going from MH and HO to LED with no expertise in the matter. A par meter would be nice, but as long as the corals are happy and the fish are, with the one, I'm good; and as long as the other unit just keeps running and stays dry, we're also happy.

Pay for themselves in bulbs? Well, maybe in five years on the Radion. But we're also drinking a little less electricity than the MH/HO with two ballasts sucked down. I say if it lasts five years with no MH/HO bulb purchases it will have at least paid back some considerable part of the cost. If you're just starting in the hobby, it's a big hit in expense, but if I were starting now, a good LED is the way I would go.

I do urge you to read the contrary opinions of some people dealing with corals. There are two opinions: tanks differ, coral choices differ, and so on, so consider all advice.

Ron Reefman
02/06/2016, 08:43 AM
1. Reef LED versus fish-only LED---how to buy. What to consider.
Fish only, most any led will do fine, even the Current and Marineland with 0.5 watt leds
Mixed reef, any fixture with 3 watt leds, even if only driven to 1.9 watts like the Mars Aqua
SPS reef, most fixtures with 3 watt leds. Coverage is more important (below).

2. Cost advantage? or is it a wash, if you were absolutely starting from no-lights?
Some leds are more expensive than others, but IMHO, most of the 3 watt inexpensive leds are good enough to keep sps tanks (mine has been running for 3 years now and is over grown with sps and lps corals). You save on bulbs and that's a good thing. The fixture itself is a bit more efficient than t5 and even more than MH. If you were to pick MH, would you need a chiller? I did. And my home A/C ran more as well. So I got less than $1000 on leds and saved more than the cost of them in under 2 years (t5 bulbs, MH bulbs, chiller electrical use and home A/C electrical use).

3. What is par?
Photosyntheticly Active Radiation. It's the light wavelengths that plants (algae) use to do photosynthesis. And the zooxanthellae (algae) in our corals use mostly (but not exclusively) blue spectrum. Which is why most led fixtures have lots of blue leds.

4. How does width and depth of tank affect the brand you buy and the number of units you need?
Width is most important as it pertains to coverage, just like how long should your t5 bulbs be or how many MH bulbs do you need. As for depth, shallow tanks of 12" or less can use most any led (assuming it's dimmable and these days they all should be). 12" to 30" deep, most any 3 watt led can create more than enough PAR to 30". Deeper than 30" and you need to pay close attention and even do some testing on your own. But there aren't too many tanks deeper than 30", sure there are some, but is a small minority.

5. What about pre-set programs? Doing your own?
You don't NEED programs. Your fish and corals don't NEED programs. This is an option that is strictly a human desire. I like having programmable dimming so I can have my tanks feel a bit more natural. I like having sunrise and sunset so my take looks different as the day goes by. Heck, the wave maker pumps at the ends of my tank alternate in 6 hour cycles plus 2 hours of overlap where both run just to simulate tides as well But my fish and corals could care less about the lights. The tides do tend to keep the tank a bit more stirred up and cleaned out.

6. What about building your own?
If you are big into DIY, go for it. It use to be the cheaper way to go just a couple of years ago. But with the proliferation of inexpensive led fixtures from China, you can get very good quality (even programmable) led fixtures for less that the cost of a similar DIY fixture.

7. Advice for running LED in your tank: percentage of power, etc. Acclimation to light. Special care when lights come on after a long period of darkness, say, a power outage lasting more than a day.
If your system is new and you are using leds from the start, run them at half power and ramp them up over time. I recommend that most 2 channel fixtures run at 50% blue and 50% white to start. Then if you up the blue to get a cooler white look, dial the white down a bit as well, say 60% blue and 40% white. Over time you can increase the total percentage of power. I run mine with a 5 hour sunrise (all blue the first couple of hours at dawn. Then a 4 hour midday of 100% blue and 50% white (I've taken 3 years to get them that high). Then a 6 hour sunset (the last 3 hours are all blue). I figure I get 4 hours of good PAR during midday and an additional 1 or 2 hours before and after midday. So that's 6 to 8 hours of enough PAR for the zooxanthellae to do photosynthesis. BTW, most zooxanthellae will only do photosynthesis for 6 to 8 hours and then shut down any way.
I have no concerns about going back to my normal power levels after a 2 or 3 day power outage or enforced darkness to eliminate algae or bacteria blooms. The pigment protections that corals develop to block light they don't want doesn't fade away that fast. Just like a human with a good tan, it doesn't fade away in just a day or even three.

Sk8r
02/06/2016, 09:43 AM
THank you, Ron Reefman! Very, very helpful! Exactly what we need!

FreedR
02/06/2016, 04:40 PM
Bravo, Ron Reefman!

kmbyrnes
02/08/2016, 07:54 AM
Wish this had been here before I cooked a bunch of corals. Like Ron said, big learning curve, especially for a newbie.

Martock
02/09/2016, 12:47 PM
very nice to know and some new things to think about

Sk8r
02/09/2016, 04:30 PM
I have also asked around and have info re coral type and par/placement. Google 'coral par numbers' and you will get some specific articles.

Sk8r
02/11/2016, 06:55 PM
Another very helpful post from Jayball, to whom, thanks!

"I lost track of where the post is but this is a good refrence for PAR and a few other lighting terms.

http://www.buildmyled.com/about-par/

The owner presented at MACNA in 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7rpUQEorDU

Hope this helps,

Jason"

gone fishin
02/11/2016, 07:07 PM
http://successfulreefkeeping.com/learn/about-corals/what-your-coral-needs/


I always found this link useful for corals

Sk8r
02/11/2016, 07:26 PM
Thank you! It's been a jungle of information, and I think we're beginning to blaze a trail!

gone fishin
02/11/2016, 07:39 PM
I wish I was of more help with the LED's but I am still tweaking mine after a year. Small changes and wait. I do have an excel sheet with all the changes and anything noteworthy. I find it useful to study the data.

FreedR
02/11/2016, 07:46 PM
So, what are your recommendations for running LEDs over a 75 gallon tank, say? Cooking corals? From too much light? Or...something else?

gone fishin
02/11/2016, 08:15 PM
Time 8:00 9:00 11:00 14:00 18:00 22:00
Channel "A" 0 30 45 60 45 0
Channel "B" 1 55 65 85 65 0
Date 1/29/16


For my Maxspect's these numbers seem to be working well. They seem to be giving me some good color. I will leave them there for a another 6-8 weeks, unless things prompt a change. If I get much over say 65% on Channel "A" I start to lose color.


sorry the numbers won't line up copied out of excel.

edward1096
02/16/2016, 05:02 PM
Go with a high par led option. Save yourself some money and just buy the nicer light than slowly upgrading. You wont be dissapointed.

biecacka
02/17/2016, 09:18 AM
The one thing I have noticed is we as hobbyist often need 1.5 times more the units than the manufacturer suggests. If they say 2, you probably want 3, 4 units you might consider 6 and so on and so forth. This will help eliminate dark spots and done shadowing effects others often run into. I remember seeing a test Sanjay did on a 40 gallon I think, he put 3 radions on it to ensure maximum spread like he got from a halide. He also suggested more units than manufacturers do. In my book tho, this makes them less affordable to me as I don't have 4200$ for 6 radions on my tank. But it's just my observation....

Corey

Sk8r
02/17/2016, 01:31 PM
I have been doing ok with one Radion G3Pro in a wedge tank: the rock has to stack in a pyramid. It would also be possible to do a 'zoned' tank, mixed types, where the lowest or furthest over are lower-light than those atop.

Chuck L
02/18/2016, 11:16 AM
Good day to everyone. I am getting back into the hobby after quite a few years. Lost a prize 110g coral reef because of Hurricane Andrew in 92. It's been that long ago. Anyways, I bought a 55 hexagon and now after disassembly and resealing/testing for leaks; I have almost completed a stand and hood for this project. I have a Grech external canister rated at 1000L/H, Odyssea UV Sterilizer rated for up to 180g tank, and a typhoon protein skimmer that's good for up to a 125g tank. The question I have is in selection of proper lighting for a tank that is approx. 31" deep and also fit the application. The tank is 24" in width. I would prefer a full spectrum LED but I am open for suggestions. It will ultimately have live rock, live coral and eventually inverts, clowns etc. I know I am limited on the amount of space in the tank so this will also be limited on the amount of inhabitants as well. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Sk8r
02/18/2016, 12:24 PM
I know that a Radion G3 Pro will reach about 30 wide and 36 deep, if mounted the (required for warranty) 8" above the water. You have to watch ANY led re moisture. They can die the death if a lot of moisture gets to them. Your 55 hex will have a lot of the characteristics of a wedge such as I have, and you might consider stacking your rock around an anchoring pole to get a 360 free space at the edges.

andrewbram
02/18/2016, 12:42 PM
Good info about to plunge into led. I am debating between hydra 26 and 52 on 150 36x36 cube.

Chuck L
02/18/2016, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the info Sk8R. When I get a little more done with the cabinet work/hood; I will post pics of it's progress. Will go take a peek at the Radion Pro. Kind of had it in mind to put a glass lid between the tank and actual wood canopy and the light would be inset on top of the hood. The inside of the hood because of it being wood, probably lined with pvc panels.

Sk8r
02/19/2016, 04:50 PM
I have an oak canopy with a glass top. It does stay dry. Affects the light a bit, but thus far seems ok.

CHOX
02/22/2016, 01:59 AM
I need a suggestion and I'm hoping this is a great place to ask. I'm currently running a Mars Aqua eBay LED over a 20x18x20 aquarium. I have some SPS and they're doing good, but I want controllability. I've narrowed it down to a Kessil 360w or a Radion Pro 15. They're both great lights, far as I have heard, but I haven't heard TOO much about the Radion 15. Can anyone suggest one over the other?

slay
02/22/2016, 12:14 PM
Can someone explain to me the reasons and needs for running LEDs at less than maximum power and how to dial in my needs? I'm a returnee to the hobby, used to running a 400w metal halide for every two feet of tank. This has been my first foray into LED lighting.

I bought three EcoTech Radion G3 Pros and currently have them above a temporary 75g (my 180 is in a unfinished basement room which I'd like to have done with the tank as a feature - I bought the oversized gear I'd need in the future, not the gear I need today). I keep mostly SPS but consider my tank a light-demanding mixed reef. How and why should I go about tuning the intensity of the lighting cycle?

Ron Reefman
02/23/2016, 06:05 AM
Can someone explain to me the reasons and needs for running LEDs at less than maximum power and how to dial in my needs? How and why should I go about tuning the intensity of the lighting cycle?

The reason for running many/most led fixtures at less than 100% power is because at that level you would bleach/burn your corals. Especially corals that are in the upper part of the water column. The led is 'focused' light and therefore much brighter than you would think given the lower wattage.

Set your initial power levels low and adjust them to a color (shade of white/blue) you like. I'd suggest you start at something like 50% blue and 25% white (or even less) and then bump it up 10% every week or two. I run my fixture at 100% blue and 50% white. But understand, that is after a full 3 years of slowly bumping up the power levels from the 50% blue and 25% white when I started. Put a sacrificial coral as high in the tank as your highest coral and when it starts to show signs of bleaching, dial the power back a touch and you are good to go.

Even after you have hit a 'final' power level, you can still bump up the power again after a few months. You can dial up the power another 2% to 5% as the corals will have acclimated to the old max level.

If you have access to a PAR meter the whole process is much easier. Put the sensor at the bottom of the tank and set the power level so you get a reading of 100 to 200 and you should be good to go. PAR meters very easy to use but they are also quite expensive and not very useful otherwise, so try to borrow one from an LFS or a fellow club member in your area. I loan mine out a lot in exchange for a coral frag.

slay
02/23/2016, 08:53 AM
TYVM Ron. I *just* got and set up a wireless Reef Link box/EcoSmart Live software for my Radions, which is amazing - among other great features, there is an acclimation period function, allowing me to start my lights out at any percentage I want and gradually let them ramp up to where I want over a time period (in weeks) of my choosing. Lighting sure has come a long way since I left the hobby.

Ron Reefman
02/23/2016, 09:18 AM
Glad to offer any help I can. That sounds like a nice software package. With 4 tanks I'm not willing to go for the very top end in lighting. But then EverGrow, ReefBreeders and OceanRevive fixtures I've been using for 3+ years have served me well. And they have more than paid for themselves in MH and t5 bulbs and total electrical savings. Heck, my 1hp chiller use to run 30 minutes out of every 60 during the day in the summer (it's outside in the shade). Now it may run 2 to 4 minutes an hour and in the dry season (what you would call winter) I turn it off.

camel0316
03/06/2016, 08:23 PM
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the hobby and bought a 20g innovated marine. I bught the skky 18w lights with it can anyone tell me if they will be good enuf for sps even tho I know I'm no we're ready for sps but I was wondering for down the rd.. Thanks

Ron Reefman
03/08/2016, 04:10 AM
Tell me if I assume correctly, your 20g is 15" deep and 24" long, right? And the Skkye 18w fixture is just 6 leds (3 watts each)? I think you will need at least 2 fixtures to cover the tank evenly. As for being able to keep sps, tough call, maybe with 3 fixtures. I think lps should be OK, if you ever try an sps, keep it close to directly under the leds.

I have a fair amount of led and sps experience, even with shallow tanks. But I have no experience with such a small led fixture. But my 24"x24"x12" frag tank has an led fixture with 48 leds and runs at 120 watts if that give you something to compare it with.

Sk8r
03/08/2016, 04:42 PM
Many fish stores are going LED now; if you buy a coral, it's good to observe what level [depth] it was in the sale tank, and outright ask the owner about the LED setting, that being what the coral is used to. They can probably tell you exactly what they're doing.

Mw1981
03/09/2016, 12:52 PM
Hello,
I am working on a 40 breeder AIO The area that will need to be lighted will be 28x18x16. Was wondering how many LEDs I would need if I went DIY. Or if there are any pre-builts that would work for this?

Sk8r
03/09/2016, 12:55 PM
Partly it depends on your rock stack, ie, where your corals are located, and what sort of coral. My tank is 36 wide running on one Radion Pro, but my rock (ergo my stony corals) are on a sharply pitched tall pyramid of rock, which considerably narrows the required spread.

Mw1981
03/09/2016, 01:26 PM
Will mostly be softies, zoas and LPS maybe a few sticks, but they would be up high. was planning on a centralized rock stack.

Sk8r
03/09/2016, 02:58 PM
One MIGHT do it.

VJM 21
03/16/2016, 08:26 PM
Hi - I'm new to the community. This is my first post.

I'm planning a 75 gallon FOWLR tank (48 x 18 x 21). After researching and talking to people at my LPS, I see value in spending more up front on lights for quality, rather than having to buy new ones in a year. My question is, will two Radion XR 15 pro LED lights be adequate for a tank of this size? I'm also planning on using the custom tank mounts that Radion makes.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

Sk8r
03/17/2016, 01:58 PM
Certainly should be enough.

VJM 21
03/17/2016, 03:58 PM
Cool - thank you.

ChitownBrickie
03/24/2016, 06:56 AM
I everyone, I'm new to the hobby... I'm considering picking up two Kessil A160's for my 55 gallon. the tank is 48" long, 13" to the back, and 19" tall. I want to grow LPS. Would two A160's be sufficient enough?
I email Kessil and they said "two A160WE-TB for easy LPS/Softies tank, and some sps that is placed higher in the tank as well."
I just cant afford the 360's right now or in the near future, but I want to have a little fun in the meantime. I appreciate your thoughts on this.

frey
03/25/2016, 10:52 PM
I want to first go back to original thread. radion pro will work great. don't forget you have the acclimation mode. on the 80 gallon cube here 30x24x24 one light does ok but 2 would be better. I run this one at 65% about 9-10" off the surface. it covers the whole tank but there is some shading on sps.

CHOX- I had 3 Kessil A360WE's on my 180. It was mostly LPS and some Softies with about 2 Acros , some monti's and a couple other SPS. The Acro's grew if they were within the top 8" of the tank but did not keep color I ran them at 100%. I switched to Hydra 52 HD's now on that tank and Acros colored up with 3 weeks to original. Don't get me wrong I loved the Kessil's and I have seen other people keep SPS with them in shallow tanks but for me they are best for LPS, Softies and Anenomies.

LennytheBlennie
03/26/2016, 11:25 AM
It may be worthwhile to have a look at Reef Breeders. A lot of bang for the buck. Their website has a spreadsheet with recommendations based on tank dimensions. You can get them with a built in controller if you want to program. I am in no way affiliated. I have them on my current 40 mixed reef and my now cycling 125 gallon and am very satisfied. Purchased based on recommendation from my LFS. Great customer service from them, as well. Just thought I would throw that out there. I am only running mine at 40% and all corals are happy.

CallSign
04/05/2016, 08:44 PM
Hi all, I am new to saltwater tanks. I have a 55 gallon tank with 40 lbs sand, 50 lbs live rock and 10 lbs pukani rock. I have a cascade 1000, protein skimmer, 2 power heads and 2 wavemakers along with 2 AI primes. I have 2 clownfish, 2 pajamas, a sailfin tang, bt trigger(female) , coral banded shrimp, and a fire shrimp. I can not get any coral to grow, I have lost more coral than fish, I have only lost 2, but the coral is another thing. I have 1 small sps and 2 others that look like toadstools. These seem to be doing ok but I lost a very nice mushroom about 4" when open, it turned to mush and guts. Water parameters are safe, calcium lvls are at 500, I have not tested for phos. Yet but will tomorrow. I am aclamating at 50% right now. Any ideas why I am having such a hard time with my corals?

xambarrgghx
04/06/2016, 09:54 PM
I'm currently planning a 40 breeder. I'm currently looking at the Hydra HD the 26 and 52. My rock will probably be spread out and I plan on having mushrooms, zoas, and acans mainly. However I feel like the Hydras wouldn't limit me as far as corals. What would be ideal for my tank?

Jackson_reef
04/07/2016, 12:00 PM
I am probably going to wind up with a 55 gal tank since Petco has their $1/gal sale going on. Dimensions are 48" w, 12" d, 21" h. I was wondering if this light from amazon (or any from amazon) would be sufficient to maintain a mixed reef. I would like to try a little of everything eventually.

Ron Reefman
04/08/2016, 07:06 AM
I'm currently planning a 40 breeder. I'm currently looking at the Hydra HD the 26 and 52. My rock will probably be spread out and I plan on having mushrooms, zoas, and acans mainly. However I feel like the Hydras wouldn't limit me as far as corals. What would be ideal for my tank?

Ha! Sorry, I don't mean to laugh at you, but the question, "What would be ideal for my tank?" is something you need to decide. There is no ideal fixture. If there were such an animal, then all fixtures would be the same.

Given the corals you want to keep in a 40g tank, most any led fixture will do, except the fixtures that use leds that are less than 1 watt each like the Marineland and Current Orbit which are only OK for coral in very shallow tanks (like 12" or less). I'm less familiar with Hydra fixtures, but I think they will work fine.

The questions for you are, what do you want?

Do you care about having sunrise/sunset ability? It's totally unnecessary, but I love having it on my display tank. But then I'm retired and home during the day alot, so I enjoy seeing the tank change over time. BTW, your fish and corals could hardly care less. This extra control costs more.

Do you want more color control? Most fixtures have 2 channels, blue and white (with some red and green usually in the white channel). But some people are really picky about the color of the light in their tank, so they get fixtures that offer more channels and some even have a channel for every color. Is this kind of control important? Not to me. But some people go crazy over color control. Do your corals care? Not much, they are pretty happy with getting twice as much blue as they get white and that will keep them healthy and growing. This extra control costs more as well.

There is no 'ideal'. Just get enough fixture to cover the area at the bottom of your tank and with 3 watt or better leds and 2 channels with dimmers. Anything more is about what you want and not about what your corals need.

rfurst
04/08/2016, 06:01 PM
I would suggest that one criterion in choosing which LED to use is lifecycle cost, or cost-of-ownership if you prefer, and that it should be considered and compared over a 3-5 year span. I went through this process very recently comparing several LED's and T5 since that is what I have historically used. The simple formula I used is

Fixture cost + bulb cost (for the T5's) + electricity cost, all times 3 years = total cost

I was caluclating cost for lighting my 60" x 24" x 24" 150g. Once I had the formula created in Excel, I simply input the data from various combinations of fixtures to get my comparitive lidecycle cost.

Electricity cost here in mid-PA is currently about 12 cents per KWh. So, for me, using a 10 hour per-day light cycle, my annual elecrical cost is $43/100w. This has significant implications since a 165w "black box" fixture will cost 5 times more in electricity cost than a 30w TMC Aquaray Tile that covers the same basic area. So, without getting into all of the other criteria, one really has to look at total cost over time. The cost difference between a $100 MarsAqua fixture and a $400 Kessil is not really $300, its $300 - the difference in electrical costs over a certain period of time. The elctrical cost would not totally close this gap but it may get it close enough that you are willing to pay a bit more for the Kessil given its other advantages.

Many are attracted to the low-cost black box LED's but I suspect many are not considering the related electrical cost penalty that comes with it.

I am not advocating for any one fixture or another, just suggesting a methodology for one point of comparison.

rfurst
04/08/2016, 06:22 PM
For all the people who ask, what is the best light for my tank, I agree with the sentiment that Ron_Reefman just posted... that there is no such thing as a best light for a particular size of tank. To begin to answer this question we, the community who is being asked, would need to know what was important to you and what you were trying to accomplish. As Ron suggested, there is a great deal of variation in the functionality between fixtures, many of which, probably most, don't matter to your coral. There are a few things that do matter a lot to your coral, such as the spectrum of light being generated. But I'll take up some of the technical issues in another post.

Oh, and it is generally helpful, when you ask for advice, to have done enough study and reading, to understand the basics of light energy as applied to aquaria so you can ask better questions and the answers will make more sense. I

rfurst
04/08/2016, 09:12 PM
OK so I'll make an attempt to get at what Sk8r was originally posting about...generally useful information for folks new to LED's or the hobby to know. Well, actually, I'll start with a list of criteria that I believe are useful to consider and compare, some of which matter to coral health and appearance, some are just a personal preference of the hobbiest, and some are of little use or are actually unhelpful and misleading. Lets assume we are dealing with a reef system, not FO or FOWLR.

I'll start with what I consider the the most important criterion...

1. PUR. At the end of the day, what seems to me to matter most, is how well the light fixture is providing the radiation/light/energy (however you want to describe it), necessary for healthy coral. If you do not know what PUR is, go read some more. The point here is that what matters is what specific frequencies of light are produced.

2. PAR. This is a widely used criteria but is of limited value IMO because it measures light indiscriminately, whether the light is useful, desirable, or not. High PAR values that are driven up by green and yellow light over-represent the "amount" of light that that is useful for coral health.

3. Cost of fixture
4. operating cost ( electricity )
5. failure rate, probability of failure ( often due to fan failure)
6. Vendor customer service
7. Personal preference for the appearance of tank...overall “color” as interpreted by the human eye.
8. your ability and willingness to change emitters that come on cheaper LEDs to remove and replace undesirable colors and even if this is possible with a particular fixture.
9. Mounting ease for your particular situation... what is possible
10. Driver electonics... PWM or Current reduction technology. This is a pretty big deal but will take a seperate discussion to explain the difference and implications.
11. Programability, Controlability, including number of channels, dimming, ramp-up down times, etc.
12. Programing software, wireless control, control via phone, etc
13. aesthetics... Physical appearance of the fixture
14. Connectivity to popular control systems such as APEX
15. Coverage, depth penetration, spread, optics, the ability to change optics.
16. Heat generated, lost. Rememberthe more input energy that gets lost in heat, the less energy available to produce light.
17. And OK, here we go..... watts. This is a widey used criterion that I believe is generally misguided because many do not understand what a watt is. Simply put, Watts is a measure of power (a function of voltage and current) that is consumed in the operation of the fixture or emitter. Watts is not a measure of light output. A 3W emmiter does not, by definition, produce more light energy output than a 2W emitter. A 3W emitter simply consumes more energy than a 2W emitter. The wattage of a device tells you how much the device will cost to operate base don electicity usage. It is a measure of input not a measure or representation of light output. While it may be true that a higher watt emitter happens to produce more output than a 2W emmitter, this is far more a function of the efficiency of the emmitter than the power it takes to run it. I disagree with those that say you should strive for a certain watt rating of emmitter. Instead, I suggest that you strive for the most efficient emmitter, the emmitter that creates the gratest input/output ration. In the end, your coral do not care how much power it takes to produce the light they want. The discussion surrounding watts is really about power consumption, not light output.

And I've run out of time so I will have to leave it at that. I'm sure there are more that I forgot at the moment and others can offer to add to the list.

xambarrgghx
04/09/2016, 12:24 AM
No hard feelings. I'm slowly learning, I just meant as far as making sure my tank would have the most coverage....in my case I feel like 2 of the hydra 26 HDs would be better than just one of the hydra 52 HDs. I like the functionality of them and the tanks I've seen under them look amazing.

Ron Reefman
04/09/2016, 04:16 AM
rfurst, I'm not looking to start an argument here. And your list of things to consider is pretty inclusive, some of your points are very well taken. Some are really almost unimportant, but that's just my opinion. But the very first one on your list is confusing.

I know full well what PUR is and how it's different than PAR. And I'll even agree that PUR is more important. However, how do you know what the PUR is for any given coral? They all have different kinds of zooxanthellae and therefore have different light requirements (or PUR). And then just what tool do you use to measure PUR? I've never seen a PUR meter. So if you can't really identify the PUR for a given coral, and there is no tool or meter to measure PUR, why make life so confusing? It's an important concept to understand, but if I don't know what the PUR is and I can't measure it, it really should just be a footnote.

We know the 400nm to 500nm wavelengths are the most important for most coral's zooxanthellae. Isn't that enough understanding about PUR? And you are right about PAR meters reading all light (not necessarily equally as blue is somewhat under read). But at least there is a meter that can give you a number to work with. So why would you say it is of limited value? To my way of thinking, it's better than the value of the non-existent number you get from the non-existent PUR meter.

Again, I agree with you that PUR, if it were something we could know and measure, would be much more useful. But we can't, so why confuse people who are just getting started. You make it the number one thing to consider, yet nobody lists any PUR numbers for their fixtures, or for any corals you buy. So how is that the most important criteria?

rfurst
04/09/2016, 10:02 AM
hey Ron, no worries about starting an argument. We are just sharing different perspectives and frankly, I don't mind arguments in any event so long as they are civil and grounded in fact. Beyond which, being challanged (respectfully of course) is how I learn and I think the back and forth is helpful to the larger community.

Yes, I agree, some of the things on my list are of little importance which is why I prefaced the list by stating “some of which matter to coral health and appearance, some are just a personal preference of the hobbiest, and some are of little use or are actually unhelpful and misleading.” My goal was to represent all of the factors that not only I think are important but that I often see being considered. I did not attempt to rank them, other than #1.

My contention is that even though PUR in not something that we can directly measure, even though each coral has a slightly different PUR requirement, even though no manufacturer list the PUR of their lights, even though it can be difficult thing to understand, it still is the thing that matters most since it is one thingabout our lights that most directly affects the health of our coral. Ya, maybe its a bit nuanced but that is why I summed up my point by saying, “The point here is that what matters is what specific frequencies of light are produced.” *

I think you are suggesting that, notwithstanding its importance, since we cant measure it, it's a moot point. I am suggesting that even though we can't directly measure it, lets understand and focus on the things that are the basis of PUR... the light frequency created by the fixture.

So maybe there is another way of getting at my point without using PUR directly. As you noted, we do know that coral responds best to ligh wavelengths of about 400nm – 500nm and 630nm -700nm. Different literature sources provide different ranges so I give these numbers as reasonable approximations. These cover the blue, indigo, violet colors on one end of the spectrum and red on the other. For those of you that really want to understand why... it has to do with the absorbtion bandwith of chlorophyll which the zooxanthellae use for photosynthis. We also know that the green, yellow, orange light in the middle of this range have little to no value to coral (even though the human eye tends to see green -yellow the best).

The number one most important thing to consider then is how well the light spectrum delivered by the fixture corresponds the the light spectrum required for coral health. I think this is a very important issue for hobbiests to understand since this issue is one of the differentiators between vendors. Cheaper fixtures, the “black box” variety, tend to produce a full spectrum of light much of which is uneccessary for your coral. This is why you see so many people buying these lights and then changing the emitters to replace undesirable ones for better ones. Higher-end lights tend to do a better job of targeting the output spectrum to the specific needs of coral. That said, you still find green emitters in higher end lights which isn't entirely bad since it does contribute to what we humans interpret as brightness, but your coral doesn' care much.

Bottom line, regardless of what fixtures you are comparing, compare the spectrum of light the fixture produces with what sectrum of light your corals find useful and choose the fixture where these two are most aligned.

Ill share my anti PAR bias in my next post,betyi all can't wait...teehehe

Ron Reefman
04/10/2016, 06:57 AM
hey Ron, no worries about starting an argument. We are just sharing different perspectives and frankly, I don't mind arguments in any event so long as they are civil and grounded in fact.

Glad to hear it and I always try to keep it civil.

Beyond which, being challanged (respectfully of course) is how I learn and I think the back and forth is helpful to the larger community.

I couldn't agree more!

Yes, I agree, some of the things on my list are of little importance which is why I prefaced the list by stating “some of which matter to coral health and appearance, some are just a personal preference of the hobbiest, and some are of little use or are actually unhelpful and misleading.” My goal was to represent all of the factors that not only I think are important but that I often see being considered. I did not attempt to rank them, other than #1.

OK, that makes sense.

My contention is that even though PUR in not something that we can directly measure, even though each coral has a slightly different PUR requirement, even though no manufacturer list the PUR of their lights, even though it can be difficult thing to understand, it still is the thing that matters most since it is one thingabout our lights that most directly affects the health of our coral. Ya, maybe its a bit nuanced but that is why I summed up my point by saying, “The point here is that what matters is what specific frequencies of light are produced.” *

Except that whether they are cheap or high end, most led fixtures don't offer a spectrum breakdown of their fixtures. And even if some emit wavelengths that really aren't helpful, are they harmful? My best guess is not very if at all, so it's really not a big issue.

I think you are suggesting that, notwithstanding its importance, since we cant measure it, it's a moot point.

Not at all! I think PUR is quite important to understand. But I am saying that I don't think it needs to be considered in buying any of the current led fixtures available in the trade. Most fixtures use quality leds that are powerful enough (like 3 watts or more). And there really isn't enough difference in any of them to make it worth worrying about in your purchase decision. I don't care who makes the 460nm led, Cree, Bridgelux, Epistar... whoever. Or for that matter the bin number of the led. I want an led that is putting out light in and around the wavelength of 460nm. Whether it has a spread from 455nm to 465nm ot a spread from 440nm to 480nm isn't really going to make any difference to my corals. And how many 460nm leds are over my tank? Are there any variations in them? I assume they are all a bit different and I think that is a good thing.

I am suggesting that even though we can't directly measure it, lets understand and focus on the things that are the basis of PUR... the light frequency created by the fixture.

The only thing you really have to judge the light emitted by a fixture is by the stated wavelengths of the leds. And there just isn't that much difference between the MarsAqua ($90) and the EcoTech Radion ($750). I think if you are really concerned about the total output of your fixture, the important difference is that the inexpensive fixtures have 2 channels, blue vs white (with a couple reds and greens) and higher end fixtures (now even the ReefBreeders Photon V-2) that have multiple channels so you can control each color individually. And it's cool if you really think it makes a difference. But I've had EcoTech Radions and inexpensive Chinese boxes and I don't see enough difference to pay the $650 price difference.

So maybe there is another way of getting at my point without using PUR directly. As you noted, we do know that coral responds best to ligh wavelengths of about 400nm – 500nm and 630nm -700nm. Different literature sources provide different ranges so I give these numbers as reasonable approximations. These cover the blue, indigo, violet colors on one end of the spectrum and red on the other. For those of you that really want to understand why... it has to do with the absorbtion bandwith of chlorophyll which the zooxanthellae use for photosynthis. We also know that the green, yellow, orange light in the middle of this range have little to no value to coral (even though the human eye tends to see green -yellow the best).

No, I don't know that these wavelengths are of "little or no value" to the corals. I'll agree they have little or nothing to do with photosynthesis. But they may, and probably are important to the corals production of color pigments which protect the coral and make them colorful to our eyes. It isn't all about zooxanthellae and photosynthesis.

The number one most important thing to consider then is how well the light spectrum delivered by the fixture corresponds the the light spectrum required for coral health. I think this is a very important issue for hobbiests to understand since this issue is one of the differentiators between vendors. Cheaper fixtures, the “black box” variety, tend to produce a full spectrum of light much of which is uneccessary for your coral. This is why you see so many people buying these lights and then changing the emitters to replace undesirable ones for better ones. Higher-end lights tend to do a better job of targeting the output spectrum to the specific needs of coral. That said, you still find green emitters in higher end lights which isn't entirely bad since it does contribute to what we humans interpret as brightness, but your coral doesn't care much.

Just a comment. First you say that cheaper black boxes produce full spectrum... much of which is unnecessary and a couple of sentences later you say higher end fixtures do a better job of targeting output... you still find green emitter in higher end lights. I disagree about the inexpensive fixtures being wrong by doing 'full spectrum' and agree that both the inexpensive and the expensive fixture manufacturers all do it. They just really aren't that different.

Bottom line, regardless of what fixtures you are comparing, compare the spectrum of light the fixture produces with what sectrum of light your corals find useful and choose the fixture where these two are most aligned.

I have used both $750 EcoTech Radions and $150 EverGrow (OceanRevive and ReefBreeders) fixtures. Other than one having individual channels for each color led and the other having 2 channels of control, blue and white, there just isn't that much difference. You can make the Radion look different to our eyes by dropping out some of the unnecessary wavelengths for photosynthesis, but that may be dropping wavelengths useful to coral pigment production. But as far as coral health and coral growth, I just don't see anywhere near enough difference to justify the huge cost difference.


That way more than just my 2 cents worth, but I think the discussion is well worth our time.

rfurst
04/10/2016, 09:23 AM
Ron, thanks for your comments, hopefully our dialogue helps newcomers understand some of the things to consider when evaluating LEDs and that there is a range of legitimate opinion and perspective even when looking at the science.

Regards

theatrus
04/11/2016, 11:09 AM
One factor to consider between different lights is the overall build quality, safety, design for longevity and sourcing of components.

The Chinese Black Box fixtures have one theme: low cost. The drivers probably are not UL listed (or would fail any testing). They're going to be made from cheap parts throughout. The emitters are not top-shelf (or knockoff fake-branded top shelf). The cooling design is going to be marginal. The support is generally someone shipping you parts from China.

Are the EcoTech fixtures filled with $600 more of good quality components? No (in fact their power supplies are also meh, but at least UL/CSA listed). However, you can have more assurances that the engineering and sourcing is done with more care. It will probably last its rated lifetime. EcoTech has a reputation to uphold, and isn't the eBay seller of the month with a "NEW 2016" product (which is the same as the 2015, 2014, ... etc).

Ron Reefman
04/12/2016, 06:29 AM
One factor to consider between different lights is the overall build quality, safety, design for longevity and sourcing of components.

The Chinese Black Box fixtures have one theme: low cost. The drivers probably are not UL listed (or would fail any testing). They're going to be made from cheap parts throughout. The emitters are not top-shelf (or knockoff fake-branded top shelf). The cooling design is going to be marginal. The support is generally someone shipping you parts from China.

Are the EcoTech fixtures filled with $600 more of good quality components? No (in fact their power supplies are also meh, but at least UL/CSA listed). However, you can have more assurances that the engineering and sourcing is done with more care. It will probably last its rated lifetime. EcoTech has a reputation to uphold, and isn't the eBay seller of the month with a "NEW 2016" product (which is the same as the 2015, 2014, ... etc).

Just how much experience do you have with Chinese made fixtures? Based on your comments, I'd say not much. You made a lot of bad assumptions about fixtures made in China.

Yes there WERE and still ARE some bad actors selling some crappy fixtures, TaoTronics, DSuny and others. But then you don't hear their names mentioned very often anymore, do you? Now it's Maxspect, EverGrow, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and ReefRadiance. More recently MarsAqua has made a big splash in the shallow end of the pool (ultra low cost). And what buyer would expect the same kind of quality from an $86 MarsAqua led fixture that they would from a $750 EcoTech Radion fixture. Let's be serious.

Having 4 tanks and 2 refugiums with led fixtures from EverGrow, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and EcoTech (all for over 3 years), I'll tell you that in my personal experience there isn't enough difference between the fixtures made in China by EverGrow (they make RB and OR as well) and EcoTech to justify $50 as far as build quality. In fact the EG made fixtures all run cooler than the EcoTech fixtures. As far as my corals are concerned, they are all equally healthy and all grow equally as well. Getting help from EG in China is a bit of a pain, but they do work with you. RB and OR, both based in the USA, do customer service pretty well, RB probably even better than ET.

If I were looking for a quality led fixture with bells and whistles like sunrise & sunset, or individual channel control of every color led in the fixture, I'd buy a ReefBreeders Photon 16 V-2 for less than half of what an EcoTech Radion cost and not give it a second thought.

theatrus
04/12/2016, 08:50 AM
Just how much experience do you have with Chinese made fixtures? Based on your comments, I'd say not much. You made a lot of bad assumptions about fixtures made in China.



Yes there WERE and still ARE some bad actors selling some crappy fixtures, TaoTronics, DSuny and others. But then you don't hear their names mentioned very often anymore, do you? Now it's Maxspect, EverGrow, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and ReefRadiance. More recently MarsAqua has made a big splash in the shallow end of the pool (ultra low cost). And what buyer would expect the same kind of quality from an $86 MarsAqua led fixture that they would from a $750 EcoTech Radion fixture. Let's be serious.



Having 4 tanks and 2 refugiums with led fixtures from EverGrow, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and EcoTech (all for over 3 years), I'll tell you that in my personal experience there isn't enough difference between the fixtures made in China by EverGrow (they make RB and OR as well) and EcoTech to justify $50 as far as build quality. In fact the EG made fixtures all run cooler than the EcoTech fixtures. As far as my corals are concerned, they are all equally healthy and all grow equally as well. Getting help from EG in China is a bit of a pain, but they do work with you. RB and OR, both based in the USA, do customer service pretty well, RB probably even better than ET.



If I were looking for a quality led fixture with bells and whistles like sunrise & sunset, or individual channel control of every color led in the fixture, I'd buy a ReefBreeders Photon 16 V-2 for less than half of what an EcoTech Radion cost and not give it a second thought.



I've had a few of the direct imports open, usually in a broken state. Combined with about 8 years experience in hardware and firmware design, including domestic and offshore manufacturing.

There are many reasons the Chinese fixtures cost so little (and cost even less if you were to buy them in RMB on the mainland), and it's not because all the US manufacturers are taking a 500% GM markup. They are designed down to a price, and to do that you cut every corner you can inside (everything from capacitors, heat sinks, fans, thermal design, wire interconnects, semiconductors in use, QA and binning, actually getting the components you specced, critical safety features - none of the Chinese fixtures I saw had any temperature cut outs or even sensing, the list goes on).

Every market has products differentiated by price points: cars, laptops, TVs, blenders, etc etc. Does the VitaMix really justify its several hundred dollar markup on the Hamilton Beach? The VitaMix will last forever and isn't designed down to a price. Both will blend your margarita out of the box. How well will both do it after 5 years of margaritas?

Seeing a lot of cheap Chinese products over the years, I make it a point to not plug anything into the mains outlet that hasn't been tested by UL, CSA or TUV. I've carried products through UL certification, and I know what it entails and value it does add to keep people safe. Neither of the prior fixtures that came my way had that. RB doesn't advertise it for the new Photons either.

I think ReefBreeders is on the right track: no longer just direct imports, but using EverGrow or another manufacturer as an ODM for different specced products. Hopefully they can exert enough control to make it work for them, and have some feet on the ground in the mainland on their payroll to enforce it. Inevitably this costs more, so as quality rises so will the cost.

Ron Reefman
04/14/2016, 07:08 AM
I think ReefBreeders is on the right track: no longer just direct imports, but using EverGrow or another manufacturer as an ODM for different specced products. Hopefully they can exert enough control to make it work for them, and have some feet on the ground in the mainland on their payroll to enforce it. Inevitably this costs more, so as quality rises so will the cost.

I think you give ReefBreeders too much credit. Their Photon fixtures, even the V-2 fixtures, are just EverGrow standard fixtures with a different assortment of leds. There is nothing else different about them. And I'm not here to argue about Chinese vs US quality, that's not what this thread was intended to do. You may continue if you like, but I'm done.

rfurst
04/16/2016, 09:29 PM
Ron, I think it is fair that Theartus brings up the point that there is a quality difference between fixtures. Quality of build is a reasonable criterion that someone might use to differentiate which fixture they use. It also seems reasonable to suggest that a $100 fixture is of different quality that a $400 fixture. The point of this thread is to discuss issues that a novice might want to consider or understand and the fact that there are differences in build quality is one of those things.

My reading of your perspective is that regardless of build quality, both cheap and expensive fixtures work equally well for coral health. That's a fair point as well. Both you and Theatrus have experience and insight that bring value to the community, both are making valid points and are simply demonstrating that we all value different things when making our choice of lights.

Ron Reefman
04/17/2016, 12:50 AM
Ron, I think it is fair that Theartus brings up the point that there is a quality difference between fixtures. Quality of build is a reasonable criterion that someone might use to differentiate which fixture they use.

I agree completely that build quality and differences between builders is important. What I was trying to get at is the fact that Theartus didn't specify a specific brand of manufacturer as being low quality. He went after Chinese made products as a group. I think that's unfair as some Chinese product is getting to be pretty good quality. I've seen some significant improvements in some Chinese fixtures just over the past 5 years. Better fans, better stainless hardware, aluminum cases rather than steel, powder coating rather than paint, real heatsinks rather than a simple sheet of aluminum and now EverGrow has gone to Cree and Osram leds with their latest fixture.

rfurst
04/17/2016, 08:24 AM
Ron, It is a good point that you bring up.... that build quality can't simply be differentiated by country of origin. This is helpful for newcommers since it is very common for the larger community to treat all Chinese / Black Box /ebay fixtures the same and I have probably been giulty of that myself at some point.

It does seem that the Chinese-made export market is pretty confusing given the number of brands that seemingly use the same basic fixture. I suppose what would really be helpful for all of us is if someone (probably someone smarter than me) could map out the Chinese made fixtures to show the brand relationships between them all. That is, if Evergrow is a manufacturer that many others use and rebrand, it might be helpful to have that list of brands that are all pretty much identical. If a brand, say Reefbreeders, starts with an Evergrow and modifies it in some way to differentiate it from others, it would be helpful to know what changes they made.

Sully72
04/18/2016, 06:43 AM
This is great information. Thank you!

Ron Reefman
04/18/2016, 09:47 AM
Well, I'm not an expert at the Chinese market either. But I know a bit about how some of it works. Even some of the big builders like EverGrow don't 'make' a lot of the components that go into their fixtures. For example, they go to a different supplier to have the cases stamped out. If you have a unique case and don't allow the company making them sell the same case to other companies building fixtures, it means they do smaller runs and the costs go up. If you allow the case to be used by others, like the original case (commonly called Chinese bricks or black boxes) that almost every inexpensive to cheap builder used when led fixtures first started showing up in the US, the cost of the case goes way down. The same can be said about heat sinks, drivers, controllers, dimmers, timers, remote controls, hanging kits and even fixture legs.

Because of that, some components that make fixtures look the same, i.e. MarsAqua, the original EverGrow basic fixture, ToaTronics and many others may all look the same. But if you want a quality product you use quality heat sinks, quality fans, quality stainless steel, etc. If you want a cheap fixture you get the lower quality parts for less and your fixture costs less. Low cost very often drives volume sales and lowers costs and end user prices even more.

But the market is maturing and some builders can make inexpensive fixtures with unique cases and other unique supplies and do a big enough volume to demand lower costs (like WalMart does). Therefore they sell better fixtures at what are still reasonable prices. Especially if you can design something that is more upscale like the new EverGrow and ReefBreeders fixtures with Cree and Osram leds and 6 channel controllers. Or even the more basic fixtures like OceanRevive who added a simple timer and have a unique case design. They had them made with aluminum and powder coated them while everybody else was using steel (rust) and still painting them (less durable). EverGrow still did the assembly, but others like EG and RB couldn't copy them because the parts were made just for OR products and EG was willing to work with them.

But some companies are still in the 'build it cheap and sell them at rock bottom prices' to attract the low end of the market and grow their business. It's the least expensive way to gain a name and a bigger share of the market for a start up company. And after all, a lot of us like to save buck when we can.

Sk8r
04/24/2016, 02:41 PM
Someone said we had a dead link on the chart: here's another, re corals and depth. Eu would be euphyllias, po would be pocillipora, st stylophora,etc --- I think! http://www.aquaticlog.com/radion

SFish
04/28/2016, 03:35 PM
So I've been wondering if the Hydra 52 HD is a better option then the Radion (not looking at the pro version). Don't know much about LEDs but I've been thinking about going with the Radion or the Hydra. Not sure what advantage having two extra pucks would give you. Also the cooling fan facing up vs down.

Stagrindin757
05/08/2016, 08:32 AM
Nice

Stagrindin757
05/08/2016, 08:34 AM
Noce

p7willm
05/08/2016, 03:16 PM
One thing about LEDs I have not seen discussed is shimmer. If the LEDs are spread out evenly you get a flat light with no shimmer. To me it looks like a picture of a reef (saw this somewhere else, probably marketing, but is true for me)

On a real reef there is general light from all over the sky along with a strong bit from that spot in the sky. The general light gets into all the shadows and lets you see but the light from the point is bent as it goes through the always rough surface and you get those lovely, to me, moving lines of brightness. Even worse, to my eye, is a fixture with the occasional colored led that gives several overlapping shimmers in different colors.

I have a little EVO tank with LEDs spread out through the fixture and it gives a flat even illumination. The corals live and the fish swim but when you look at it something is wrong.

I also have a bigger tank with Kessil and it shimmers.

After spendig thousands on all the equipment and life the extra cost to make it move is really worth it. For me.

drakedeming
05/12/2016, 07:49 AM
I am currently researching lighting for a 10 gallon standard nano that will have some corals(sofites and LPS, maybe SPS in the future). All I am finding are clip on light solutions. I need to have a hood/top on the tank due to cats and would like to be able to mount an LED inside of the hood.

Any ideas on where to look? DIY solutions for this?

Thanks.

theatrus
05/12/2016, 09:18 AM
I am currently researching lighting for a 10 gallon standard nano that will have some corals(sofites and LPS, maybe SPS in the future). All I am finding are clip on light solutions. I need to have a hood/top on the tank due to cats and would like to be able to mount an LED inside of the hood.

Any ideas on where to look? DIY solutions for this?

Thanks.

There are a few outfits that sell retrofits for biocubes and the like, you might start there. Its likely mostly DIY.

drakedeming
05/12/2016, 09:55 AM
There are a few outfits that sell retrofits for biocubes and the like, you might start there. Its likely mostly DIY.

The more I am ready the more I am seeing I should go without a lid anyways.

Thanks though, I'll check it out and read.

xgjgyj
05/19/2016, 09:24 AM
Good thread to start as there is a learning curve with led's that alot of people dont know about. They are not just a plug and play setup like t5's, pc's, and mh's were. http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/7.gif
http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/8.gif http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/51.gif

John2755
05/29/2016, 01:21 AM
I just got the kessil a360w and I love it. If you're wanting ease of use go with kessil. A spectral controller will be in my near future without a doubt

ComforablyNumb
05/29/2016, 02:59 AM
Hard to beat the Kessils, no doubt.

Pic of birdsnest when I first got it:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/annietim/IMG_4479_zpsxwylzcgm.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/annietim/media/IMG_4479_zpsxwylzcgm.jpg.html)

Same one 7 months later:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/annietim/IMG_4579_zpssypzjvfv.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/annietim/media/IMG_4579_zpssypzjvfv.jpg.html)


SPS frag when I first got it:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/annietim/IMG_4394_zpsvdjdht1v.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/annietim/media/IMG_4394_zpsvdjdht1v.jpg.html)

Same frag (plus two others) 7 months later under just Kessils:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/annietim/IMG_4488_zpsdx47ay0i.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/annietim/media/IMG_4488_zpsdx47ay0i.jpg.html)

And there is nothing like the Kessil shimmer!
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o169/annietim/IMG_4628_zpspapur2s7.jpg (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/annietim/media/IMG_4628_zpspapur2s7.jpg.html)

Cheers.

karyze
06/14/2016, 09:05 AM
Thanks for starting this! Comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm about to get my 75g box of air back wet again and full of reef. I need to refurbish the hood, and had MH + actinics, but am considering LEDs. Looking forward to learning more from others' experience.http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/6.gif
http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/4.gifhttp://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/8.gif

Ron Reefman
06/16/2016, 05:44 AM
Thanks for starting this! Comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm about to get my 75g box of air back wet again and full of reef. I need to refurbish the hood, and had MH + actinics, but am considering LEDs. Looking forward to learning more from others' experience.

If I were setting up a new 75g reef, I'd be looking at a couple of OceanRevive, ReefBreeders or EverGrow fixtures. Two of the smaller fixtures like the OR T247 or a couple of basic RB fixtures will work fine. The upgrade I like (because I like sunrise/sunset and I'd like color control) in the RB Photon 32 V-2 or 48 V-2. The 32" will cover your 48" tank. The 48" fixture doesn't have any additional leds and at 48" wide, the end leds will just be lighting up whatever is out the sides of your tank (wasting light).

Crimson11
06/16/2016, 08:53 AM
I am planning to do a 150cm diy led light controlled by an arduino most probably as I use arduino to control the water level, leakage, timer for t5's etc.

As soon as I become more proficient about the par/pur I will start the project, so its a very useful thread for me.

othyehe
06/19/2016, 08:35 AM
I have an oak canopy with a glass top. It does stay dry. Affects the light a bit, but thus far seems ok.http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/6.gif
http://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/4.gifhttp://yeahonlinemarketing.com/apple/images/22.gif

jam.jo
06/20/2016, 08:54 AM
Has anyone tried the Galaxy hydro lights yet? I have them, I used a par meter to adjust them to about 400 par at the top of my tank, but my red planet acro is not doing very well. It has turned brownish and pale, but not white. Any tips?

Ron Reefman
06/21/2016, 05:31 AM
Has anyone tried the Galaxy hydro lights yet? I have them, I used a par meter to adjust them to about 400 par at the top of my tank, but my red planet acro is not doing very well. It has turned brownish and pale, but not white. Any tips?

How deep is the Red Planet? Do you know the PAR at it's depth?

jam.jo
06/23/2016, 08:48 PM
The red planet is within the 2 inch space from the surface of the water from the base. It is just a small frag right now about an inch tall. The PAR gets about 400 measured with a seneye.

Ron Reefman
06/24/2016, 07:28 AM
If the PAR is 400 at the red planet, you may have too much light.

How big is your tank that a red planet coral is only 2" under the water surface?

jam.jo
06/24/2016, 01:37 PM
My tank is 40 gallons but my rock is stacked two high and so the area that receives the most light is in that 2 inch space which I have read sps need that par of light. But maybe I read that wrong too.

Ron Reefman
06/26/2016, 06:28 AM
Par of 400 seems a bit high, but there are a host of other potential reasons besides the PAR or light for this coral's poor health. Even if everything else in your tank is doing well.

Snuggs
07/06/2016, 06:32 AM
Hydra 26 settings.

Crimson11
07/13/2016, 05:50 AM
I ended up buying 3 165w led lights like mars aqua. they are wifi controlled with a "chinese" app.

TriedAndProven
07/14/2016, 09:45 PM
I've used LEDs on planted tanks before, but am getting ready to take the salt plunge. Since Build My LED is done with consumer sales I'm looking at Kessil and EcoTech. Tank will be an ADA 60P, 24" x 12" x 14" deep.

Can I get by with a single Radion XR15 Pro, or will I need more? Absolutely want SPS.

Ron Reefman
07/15/2016, 05:26 AM
A single Radion at 8" off the water over a 14" deep tank will light the entire tank. However, Radions don't cover 2' spreads as well as some other led fixtures due to the tight grouping of the leds and that the light won't get the benefit of a 24" deep tank to spread out. You may find the outer edges of the tank are not as well lit and may not be acceptable for sps corals. But you are probably right at the ragged edge of enough. If you can raise the fixture higher off the water, you will get better end to end coverage.

TriedAndProven
07/15/2016, 07:02 AM
A single Radion at 8" off the water over a 14" deep tank will light the entire tank. However, Radions don't cover 2' spreads as well as some other led fixtures due to the tight grouping of the leds and that the light won't get the benefit of a 24" deep tank to spread out. You may find the outer edges of the tank are not as well lit and may not be acceptable for sps corals. But you are probably right at the ragged edge of enough. If you can raise the fixture higher off the water, you will get better end to end coverage.

Would I be better off with a Kessil or AI Hydra instead?

drodge
07/18/2016, 03:08 PM
Does anyone know if O2Surplus sells his controller boards anywhere else? I'm new to the forums and can't PM or search the classifieds, so i assume that's where they would be. I'm building a new custom LED setup and have a Bluefish mini already. I was looking to integrate fan control into my build and ran across his arduino integrated board and it's exactly what I need. If anyone has any idea where to purchase one I'd be indebted.

Stackhous1
07/21/2016, 12:36 PM
I bought the hydra 26 HD but how do u know what levels to set each color at.
Everyone says something way different

Tanthaitrung
07/24/2016, 04:50 PM
Set your initial power levels low and adjust them to a color (shade of white/blue) you like. I'd suggest you start at something like 50% blue and 25% white (or even less) and then bump it up 10% every week or two. I run my fixture at 100% blue and 50% white. But understand, that is after a full 3 years of slowly bumping up the power levels from the 50% blue and 25% white when I started. Put a sacrificial coral as high in the tank as your highest coral and when it starts to show signs of bleaching, dial the power back a touch and you are good to go
Dear Ron Reefman,

My tank is 72x28x28 running with Rapid Led Corona x 3 (120W each). It was fallow in few months because of aiptasia and high PO4. But when Copperbanded Butterfly came and cleaned a ton of aiptasia, I was so happy and made my tank recovered then bought the lights as I said above (I used to have T5 but no knowledge about led) There are some fishes, mushroom leather coral and zoanthids now.

My tank has no hair algae any more, even no need to clean glasses. Next week, I will add some corals. My question are:

- If I start the lights at 50% and bump up 10% every week, then after few weeks my lights will reach 100%. What happens if the new corals come when the lights at 100%? They will be burned?

- Why did you suggest too much blue?

Thanks in advance & Regards
Khanh

Sk8r
07/24/2016, 04:53 PM
THey will be burned. You have to acclimate them to the light by reducing intensity and photoperiod and increasing it slowly over time.

Tanthaitrung
07/24/2016, 04:56 PM
THey will be burned. You have to acclimate them to the light by reducing intensity and photoperiod and increasing it slowly over time.
Thanks so much Sk8r :)

But I don't know why adjusting too much blue?

Regards
Khanh

Ron Reefman
07/25/2016, 03:30 AM
Khanh, I'm not an expert on light or coral, but I do know enough to be dangerous! I'm sorry for the long reply, but I don't want to assume you know this stuff, so I'll try to cover even the basics.

There is a lot to learn about light, leds fixtures, how your corals use light and what effects the light has on everything else in your tank.

First, let's clear up the misconception of getting to 100% power. You'll need to figure out what the maximum amount of power your systems need to use to get the right amount of light in your tank.

1) The easy way is to do that is with a PAR meter which measures Photosynthetically Active Radiation, or the light that ALL plants use in the process of doing photosynthesis. But most people don't have PAR meters and they are kind of expensive and not very useful once you get your light set properly. Some people borrow them from other reefers or rent them from an LFS.

2) Find somebody who has the same fixture you have and is successful with keeping coral in a tank similar to yours. That's possible here with all of us, but given your fixtures are not the most common ones in use, it may prove difficult to find. I'd recommend you try asking in the Lighting, Filtration.... Forum ( http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=212 ). Tell people what led fixture you have, about your tank size, what kinds of corals you want to keep and you may find help.

3) I call this the 'Canary in the Coalmine' approach which is what I was refering to with the start using low power setting and ramping them up over time. I'd set 1 or 2 inexpensive frags as high up in your tank as you expect any corals to be. These are the 'canary' corals. As you raise you power levels over time, you will get to a point where 1 or both of those corals will start to get too much light and bleach. That will almost always be before you get to 100%. When you see one of those corals start to bleach, back the power levels down 5% or 10% and you should be good to leave it there.

Your other question was about why so much blue light?

Let's start with your coral. The coral is an animal and living inside the coral polyps are a form of plant/algae called zooxanthellae. This algae does photosynthesis that feeds both the algae inside the coral and also the coral itself. The particular kinds of zooxanthellae that live in coral use mostly blue light (400nm to 480nm wavelength) to do this photosynthesis. Your coral could almost survive on light that is mostly blue. The white light is a mix of a wide spectrum of colors like red, green & blue (RGB) and your corals use some of those other colors to produce pigments that create some of the color you see in your coral along with some proteins and other chemicals they need to survive. But they don't need nearly as much white light as they need blue. So more blue and not as much white is good for the coral.

The light in your tank will also be used to grow other nuisance algae (which you don't seem to have yet). These nuisance algaes do their photosynthesis mostly with red light which is part of the wide range of colors included in the white light. So white light can help glow algae that you don't want. So less white is OK for your corals as long as they get some and less white also helps keep nuisance algae from growing. Some people even go so far as to cover the red leds in their fixture. This can help if you are getting an algae bloom you don't want.

The other component we need to consider is your eyes and what you want to see when you look at the tank? Some people like a very blue tank and some hate it. Others like a cool white look which is a lot of blue and some white. Others like a warm white look that is more white and less blue. Even this is OK as long as you realize that it is less useful to the coral and more useful for nuisance algae. You get to control how blue or how white your tank is with the dimmers. So set them to a level you like to look at. Just remember it only takes a little bit of white light to make the blue look go away to our eyes. But the blue is still there and the corals don't see the light with our eyes.

That is the basics as I understand them. There are a lot of articles about light and how corals use light. And if you have questions, I encourage you to ask them. That's how we all learn.

Tanthaitrung
07/25/2016, 08:05 AM
Ron Reefman. I have no knowledge about led but I love the way, that you explain is easy to understand.

Great thanks Ron Reefman
Khanh

Ron Reefman
07/25/2016, 02:35 PM
Khanh, you are welcome, and if you have more questions please ask them.

lacybiker2000
07/25/2016, 04:58 PM
Has anyone had experience with the Current USA 20000 white/460 blue units with ramp timer?

nickandcrystal
07/26/2016, 10:38 AM
Me and my wife have purchased a Hydra 26 hd model and am having a hard time finding out a good base line for the different lights. We have a 20 gallon reef tank with the following dimensions 24"x 16" x 12" that we are stocking soft corals for right now with the chance of hard corals in the future. We are knew to the hobby and have struggled to find any answers on the internet. It seems like even if you do the very next page will tell you the complete opposite. Any info you have would be great. Thanks for the helping:rollface:

hbash
07/27/2016, 01:36 PM
Found a new blog about marine aquariums. Looks like the writer has work to do, but looks interesting.

http://www.aquariumnook.com

Zoregon
07/29/2016, 04:00 PM
I'm going back and forth between the ATI Sunpower 60" 8x80w fixture and three Kessil 360's for my 180. They are both about the same price once I add in bulbs.
I like the idea of the 'plug & play' of the Sunpower but do not like the sheer size of the fixture and wonder what changing a 5' bulb (which is bigger than I am) is going to be like. I do like the look of the Kessils and the 'shimmer' but am concerned it won't be enough. I don't want complicated which is why I'm looking at the Kessil.
I know that I do not like the blue, blue tank look, I prefer something with a blue tint and brighter. My tank also has two braces so would like to eliminate as much shadow as possible.
I'll be starting with the usual beginner corals and working my way up. I just cannot decide. Would anyone care to weigh in?

ealzaln
08/07/2016, 11:03 AM
Good thread to start as there is a learning curve with led's that alot of people dont know about. They are not just a plug and play setup like t5's, pc's, and mh's were.http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/5.gifhttp://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/2.gif
http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/1.gif

Wilrok_1
08/18/2016, 08:15 AM
Following Great info !

ejawitz
08/25/2016, 01:53 PM
I have a VIPARSPECTRA Timer Control 165W LED which has lots of power. it is about 1 foot above my 29 gallon tank. It seems like you are suggesting ramping up to 50%, but it seems to be plenty bright at 10% white and 10% blue. Could this be enough?

Ron Reefman
08/26/2016, 02:58 AM
I have a VIPARSPECTRA Timer Control 165W LED which has lots of power. it is about 1 foot above my 29 gallon tank. It seems like you are suggesting ramping up to 50%, but it seems to be plenty bright at 10% white and 10% blue. Could this be enough?

If your 29g tank is the standard 18" deep, it's very unlikely that 10% on both channels will grow much but soft corals, and even that is doubtful. You can't trust your eyes, they are terrible at judging light intensity for a number of reasons.

Your 165 watt fixture is pretty common and lots of people run them. I have one over my 10" deep frag tank and I run it at 90% blue and 10% white. BTW, judging blue light intensity with your eyes is worthless. High PAR blue just doesn't look bright to human eyes. Our eyes are geared to see and judge green much better.

ejawitz
08/26/2016, 11:08 AM
Ok, I will ramp it up. Since I am at 10% now, can I go to 20% today?

gusmanda
08/26/2016, 02:13 PM
I'm trying to visualize what the LED set-ups look like, as they aren't sold locally, they look like spot-lights if I look at the Kessil or the Radion LED lamps....

Is it fair to assume that each one of those will cover a certain radius, so say my tank was 60 inches long, I would need at least 2 radions to cover?

mpyers
08/26/2016, 08:11 PM
I didn't read all 5 pages of this, so forgive me if this has already been posted. But I have a plan in place for a DIY that I think sounds amazing.

MakersLED makes an extruded heat sink, that has T-Slots for "Nut and Bolt" Mounting of virtually all standard sized LED's including 3W stars and larger chips. It comes with endcaps and an acrylic splashgaurd, both installed in other slots in the frame. It looks very professional; something trickier to acquire from a DIY project. It has nice sized fins capable of dissapating enough heat for most LEDs. And if you manage to overload its heat capacity, it has slots for cooling fans. it has slots for drivers (which they sell very nice ones as well.) it has slots for a controller (they also sell). But obviously with the DIY you may want to choose your own drivers and controller.

They cut them to size so it will fit over any sized tank.

I am getting a 36" to cover the width of my tank for $149.
It comes with all the nuts and bolts, endcaps and acrylic splashgaurd.

Then I'm getting a driver that can drive 70 3W leds, for $60, and a controller for $50.

So $260, then I still need LEDs, Wire, Solder, and heatsink paste. I already have wire Solder and heatsink paste. If you don't you can get all that for under $20.

What I think is the greatest thing about them is, that after that initial purchase of $149, they are basically infinitely customizable and upgradable.

I can get all the lights I think I will need for under $60 (All 3W, 20 Blue, 10 purple, 20 white, 5 green, 5 red, 5 pink.)

And if I realize I need more, or less, or the ones I get suck, I can just add more, or replace them. After the initial purchase of the housing, to changes things later or upgrade all I have to do is spend $10 more dollars on another pack of LEDs.

I can do two of those for the price of a radion pro, and I have a hard time believing I wont match its par with just one. I'm going to have 65 LEDs dimmable and possibly driven at full wattage (if needed) for less than $350

I think thats a good deal.

Here is a link to their site.

http://www.makersled.com/

mpyers
08/26/2016, 08:13 PM
They also have a slim version which doesn't house the drivers, controller, or cooling fans. But is significantly cheaper. I've thought about getting this, but I want the capability to upgrade to more and more, so I'm going with the full sized.

mpyers
08/26/2016, 08:35 PM
This is also a very good option for someone who had the same situation I am in.
I don't have any money saved up, and I find it hard to save enough for a big purchase.

This lends itself to that because you can buy it step by step.

I started out with a single t5 that came with the tank.
My neighbor gave me some free corals (great guy) even though I wasn't ready for them. When i realized that I didn't have near the light needs met, I scrambled for ligght. I didn't have the money for anything pre-built, so I bought a few LEDs on amazon, and a couple drivers and some small heat sink.for less than $40. I wired them up and mounted them to a piece of wood which sets on my glass lids. It looks like a mess right now. But now I have enough light to at least keep these guys alive. Next I'm going to buy the MakersLED. and piece by piece, paycheck to paycheck, I will buy the rest of the components. Until one day, I'm acclimating animals instead of desperately trying to keep them alive.

Ron Reefman
08/27/2016, 04:29 AM
Ok, I will ramp it up. Since I am at 10% now, can I go to 20% today?

Yes, I'd recommend raising the blue by 10 and the white by 5 every 7 to 10 days. The corals want more blue for photosynthesis. At 50 blue and 25 white slow down the increases (increase the power less and take longer between increases.

I'm trying to visualize what the LED set-ups look like, as they aren't sold locally, they look like spot-lights if I look at the Kessil or the Radion LED lamps....

Is it fair to assume that each one of those will cover a certain radius, so say my tank was 60 inches long, I would need at least 2 radions to cover?

Each fixture has a fixed area it can cover. How deep the tank is and how high the light is off the water affect how big that 'footprint' is. Most 'ordinary' size fixtures like a Radion will cover roughly 1.5' to 2' wide and 2' to 2.5' long. If you have soft corals 2 may be enough, lps may need more than 2 in order to do well and sps will need 3 to do well.

mpyers
08/27/2016, 10:50 PM
Ron,

Is it worth taking water light transmission into consideration? I'm not sure how much it varies. I would assume it does greatly. I know before I got everything squared away, I had problems keeping the clarity of my water perfect. Looking on from the front pane, it didn't seem cloudy, but if viewed from the side, I couldn't see through the length of the tank.

I would assume this would have a considerable effect on the lights ability to perform, therefore making water clarity an important factor on the efficiency of your lighting.

Also, if you're using Acrylic or glass to protect your lights from splashes, there is an LT value associated with each material. I work for an acrylic manufacturer, and our average LT for High-quality clear acrylic is about 93% This seems insignificant, but if you think about it, that is 7% of your light that doesn't even make it to the surface of the water.

Any material is going to have this effect, because if it has 100% LT it would be invisible.

Also if you keep the lights too close to the water, they tend to have salt buildup on the surface of the splash guards, and that will decrease the light transmission as well. I wondered how much effect this had, and so I took a piece into work, and after a week the LT had dropped from 93% to 88%. With a significant spike in Haze (Light scattering) as well, which will re-direct light in seemingly random ways. Personally, I'm going to use the thinnest possible splash guard, with a high LT, and I will be cleaning it regularly.

Ron Reefman
08/28/2016, 04:12 AM
Yes, light transmission is an issue. In general I assume most reefers work to keep their water about as clear as possible and the salt creep/evap cleaned off the light fixture. That's part of the reason nobody can give anybody a perfect answer about how to set their led intensity. Fixtures are different, water clarity is different, height off the water is different, depth in the tank is different...

But look at it this way, if you run MH or t5 florescent you don't have much, if any, control over intensity other than placing screens and such in the way.

gaspipe1
08/30/2016, 10:55 AM
I know this is an old post and perhaps someone asked this but...

what do you do if you introduce a new coral?



7. Advice for running LED in your tank: percentage of power, etc. Acclimation to light. Special care when lights come on after a long period of darkness, say, a power outage lasting more than a day.
If your system is new and you are using leds from the start, run them at half power and ramp them up over time. I recommend that most 2 channel fixtures run at 50% blue and 50% white to start. Then if you up the blue to get a cooler white look, dial the white down a bit as well, say 60% blue and 40% white. Over time you can increase the total percentage of power. I run mine with a 5 hour sunrise (all blue the first couple of hours at dawn. Then a 4 hour midday of 100% blue and 50% white (I've taken 3 years to get them that high). Then a 6 hour sunset (the last 3 hours are all blue). I figure I get 4 hours of good PAR during midday and an additional 1 or 2 hours before and after midday. So that's 6 to 8 hours of enough PAR for the zooxanthellae to do photosynthesis. BTW, most zooxanthellae will only do photosynthesis for 6 to 8 hours and then shut down any way.
I have no concerns about going back to my normal power levels after a 2 or 3 day power outage or enforced darkness to eliminate algae or bacteria blooms. The pigment protections that corals develop to block light they don't want doesn't fade away that fast. Just like a human with a good tan, it doesn't fade away in just a day or even three.

Ron Reefman
08/31/2016, 01:38 AM
I know this is an old post and perhaps someone asked this but...

what do you do if you introduce a new coral?

If you have leds and have them turned up high for sps corals, I'd suggest you either put new corals as deep in the water as you can and then move them up to their final home in a couple of steps so they get use to the light. The alternative is to find or create a shadow area like a rock overhang or something to block some of the light and move the coral into the light gradually.

But if your lights aren't turned up as bright as the corals can tolerate, then acclimating is much less of an issue. The basic acclimate it deep in the tank and move it up over time, say 1 to 3 moves over 1 to 3 weeks. This works for MH and t5 lighting as well, but more often than not, they aren't at the upper limit of the coral's ability to tolerate. Leds can get too bright if you aren't careful.

gaspipe1
09/01/2016, 12:43 PM
Thank you

sodiumascorbate
09/13/2016, 10:40 PM
thanks for your post

ajoe
09/21/2016, 06:35 PM
Getting ready to introduce some soft corals and LPS to my 50 gallon tank and want to upgrade my lighting prior. Very narrow tank as you can see. Only 12 inches wide. Was considering 2 AI Prime's since it is soo narrow but am also considering 2 of the EchoTech Radion XR15w G4 Pros or 2 of the Nano Box Reef Duo Plus Ms. I really like supporting the entrepreneurs out there and Box Reef appears to produce an excellent product. EchoTech as we know is on the short list of top of the line systems. Any feedback on either/both appreciated. Too much light? Not enough?

Thanks all.

50 G. 48x12x18

mpyers
09/21/2016, 07:31 PM
Makers LED kit. 10x 3w blue. 10x 3w purple. 14x 3w white. With actinic T5. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160922/55bba2525586f9db22623c87fd44b895.jpg

mpyers
09/21/2016, 07:31 PM
All for under $300

Ron Reefman
09/22/2016, 03:19 AM
Thanks for starting this! Comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm about to get my 75g box of air back wet again and full of reef. I need to refurbish the hood, and had MH + actinics, but am considering LEDs. Looking forward to learning more from others' experience.

If you need help understanding anything about light for corals or led fixtures, I'll be happy to try and help.

Getting ready to introduce some soft corals and LPS to my 50 gallon tank and want to upgrade my lighting prior. Very narrow tank as you can see. Only 12 inches wide. Was considering 2 AI Prime's since it is soo narrow but am also considering 2 of the EchoTech Radion XR15w G4 Pros or 2 of the Nano Box Reef Duo Plus Ms. I really like supporting the entrepreneurs out there and Box Reef appears to produce an excellent product. EchoTech as we know is on the short list of top of the line systems. Any feedback on either/both appreciated. Too much light? Not enough?

Thanks all.

50 G. 48x12x18

You are looking at some better quality, and pricey fixtures. Do you really need all the bells and whistles those fixtures offer? That adds a lot of cost to the fixture if you really don't need sunrise/sunset or 6 channel spectrum control. What kind of coral do you have, or do you plan for? Is there a reason you are using such a narrow tank? Why over spend on light fixtures when you can light that tank for under $200 with good leds and spend the rest on stuff to go in the tank. I'm not saying you shouldn't use the brands you mentioned, I'm just curious if you are spending your money wisely or if you aren't concerned about the cost?

hitawaah
10/10/2016, 01:31 AM
I am setting up my 300 (96X24X30)gallon tank now. I have read this entire thread and I have just purchased the kessil AP700 to go along with my 4 Radion xr30w pros. At the time of buying the radions I hadn't heard much about the AP700. That being said I am gonna put the kessil right in the middle for the shimmer and run the radions on the outside. I am using a canopy and am planning on mounting the kessil 7" off the top of the water and the radions about 9" off. That will leave about 3"of space from the canopy for the radions and 5 inches of space for the kessil. I have the new Apex and the reeflink, I know they do the same thing but reeflink is cloud based whereas my apex will keep running my lights ad a lot of other stuff proper if my wifi should go down. Hopefully with most of the back open and ice cap fans blowing I should have enough room between the top of the leds and the canopy to keep the leds cool. I will use glass to keep the leds dry. I will be eventually getting into SPS maybe LPS and giant clams when my tank is completely cycled (I have about 400 lbs of dry rock pukani and marco that I will be seeding) and the parameters are staying solid for at least three to six months, I know not to rush the process. I do not want to kill coral because of stupidity. I am reading as much as I can about coral I have read a ton I understand PUR and PAR. Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? I can give you a list of all the equipment I have but that will take a loooong thread let's just say I'm running a refugium with algae have a tunze 9030 skimmer and use rodi water with an ATO. Also this is a great thread between Ron Reefman, SK8r, and rfurst there is so much knowledge to gain from them it's awesome, no offense to anyone else. Thanks for taking the time to read this I welcome any suggestions and advice you give is greatly appreciated as this is my first full reef tank, I've had FOWLR and FO for about 20years off and on.

hitawaah
10/12/2016, 02:10 PM
Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? So I did't get anyone to answer maybe my post was too long but I know with 5 leds there is a lot of light (I'm actually buying a seneye par meter kit right now) so even with that knowledge I don't know where a good starting point is. I'm guessing 30/40% it's only going to be fish and live rock I want coralline algae but not other algae problems due to the light being too high. Anyone have any advice for a newbie?

Grimreaperz
10/12/2016, 09:20 PM
Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? So I did't get anyone to answer maybe my post was too long but I know with 5 leds there is a lot of light (I'm actually buying a seneye par meter kit right now) so even with that knowledge I don't know where a good starting point is. I'm guessing 30/40% it's only going to be fish and live rock I want coralline algae but not other algae problems due to the light being too high. Anyone have any advice for a newbie?
Are you talking about positioning above the tank or what intensity to start at?

Starting intensity will depend on your livestock just fish. Start at 10% blue and 5% white and work your way up SLOWLY and see how they react. As far as position above the tank the lights manufacturer specs should help with that.

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Grimreaperz
10/12/2016, 09:22 PM
That's being said anytime you add new live stock you need to acclimate them to your light. Some do this by adjusting intensity other do it with tank placement (corals only) just do a lot of research on the livestock you want. Fish aren't to picky on lights. It's coral that require the more attention when it comes to lights.

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hitawaah
10/12/2016, 11:09 PM
Are you talking about positioning above the tank or what intensity to start at?

Starting intensity will depend on your livestock just fish. Start at 10% blue and 5% white and work your way up SLOWLY and see how they react. As far as position above the tank the lights manufacturer specs should help with that.

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Thanks for responding, yeah I'm talking about intensity. I have 4radion xr30w pros and a kessil ap 700 they are going in a canopy and I'm using glass lids. I have read the specs and have the setup designed for the light height. If you didn't read my first post I'm building a 300 gallon reef tank (96X24X30) so it's deep. I'm putting in roughly 400lbs. of dry rock (pukani and marco reef) seeded with nice live rock. After it cycles I'm going to start with some of the fish I mentioned. Once my parameters are stable for a few months then I will add some beginner corals. I've never done a reef I've had FOWLR and FO for over 20 years but never inverts, corals, and clams. I have never ran led lighting. So I know most of the fish I want wont be too bothered by light intensity but I still need a starting off point and I have no clue where to begin. I know when I add the corals the lights have an acclimation mode I can put them into then slowly ramp up. I also can place the coral deeper or higher depending on its needs. Thanks for the input at least I have something to go on for intensity purposes.

Grimreaperz
10/13/2016, 03:53 AM
Yeah IMO it's always better to start lower then high. As the damage caused from not enough light is far less severe then that caused from too much.

I'm still quite new to the hobby myself but this would be my best guess. As melting or bleaching of corals can happen quite quickly under too much light.

I would say good starting point would be 10-15%blue and 5-10% white.

I only have cheap China LEDS and this is usually where I start the acclimation cycle with new corals. And gradually bring it up over the course of a month or so.

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Ron Reefman
10/13/2016, 04:37 AM
If it's going to be fish only, why did you buy so much light? In fact, the fish don't need high PAR light and having high PAR light over a fish only tank is just asking for algae.

Do you intend to add corals in the future?

hitawaah
10/13/2016, 11:51 AM
[QUOTE=Ron Reefman;24774067]If it's going to be fish only, why did you buy so much light? In fact, the fish don't need high PAR light and having high PAR light over a fish only tank is just asking for algae.

Do you intend to add corals in the future?[/QUOTE

Ron, it's not going to be FO i'm just starting with a few fish that I had mentioned in a prior post (tangs and such) then once I know my water parameters are stable for a few months then I'll move on to corals, I want to have sps and some clams way down the road. But I don't want to kill corals by just putting them in and learning on the fly. I'm still doing a lot of reading on how to keep sps healthy, thriving, and growing I don't want them to be just hanging on. Plus everyone has their way of doing it and there are a lot of different ways to get to the right water parameters. I know I need a few more pieces of equipment for corals unless I want to buy bottles to keep my parameters in the right ranges for sps. Thanks for the input though. Any advice you have for me I'd appreciate it.

hitawaah
10/13/2016, 12:15 PM
Yeah IMO it's always better to start lower then high. As the damage caused from not enough light is far less severe then that caused from too much.

I'm still quite new to the hobby myself but this would be my best guess. As melting or bleaching of corals can happen quite quickly under too much light.

I would say good starting point would be 10-15%blue and 5-10% white.

I only have cheap China LEDS and this is usually where I start the acclimation cycle with new corals. And gradually bring it up over the course of a month or so.

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Yeah I read a post that Ron was talking about that there is not much difference between the black boxes from china or wherever and the expensive ones that I have. His points were valid, wish I had his advice when I was dropping thousands on lighting, but it is too late now. I'm not unhappy with them they have a lot of features but I don't think the corals care much about a lot of them besides acclimation mode. Just saying there is sooo much to learn about reefkeeping and more to the point about sps and leds. Each corals has its own specific needs lighting, water flow, and parameters. Then leds are all different with their intensity and programs that you can run. I'm reading every day and asking questions as I get closer to putting this beast all together, I'm only a week or two to having it put together still a lot to be done though. Anyway I kinda got off topic. Thanks for the input!

rookum
10/13/2016, 12:27 PM
I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.

Grimreaperz
10/13/2016, 01:38 PM
I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.
How old is the tank? Cyano is quite common in new tanks. Part of the cycling maturing process. Try to reduce feeding. And increase flow at the sand bed level.

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Grimreaperz
10/13/2016, 01:39 PM
Yeah I read a post that Ron was talking about that there is not much difference between the black boxes from china or wherever and the expensive ones that I have. His points were valid, wish I had his advice when I was dropping thousands on lighting, but it is too late now. I'm not unhappy with them they have a lot of features but I don't think the corals care much about a lot of them besides acclimation mode. Just saying there is sooo much to learn about reefkeeping and more to the point about sps and leds. Each corals has its own specific needs lighting, water flow, and parameters. Then leds are all different with their intensity and programs that you can run. I'm reading every day and asking questions as I get closer to putting this beast all together, I'm only a week or two to having it put together still a lot to be done though. Anyway I kinda got off topic. Thanks for the input!
Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features. It seems you are on the right track. Just stay on the lower side when fish only. And then once you start adding corals that acclimation mode seems pretty hands free awesome!

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hitawaah
10/13/2016, 09:02 PM
Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features. It seems you are on the right track. Just stay on the lower side when fish only. And then once you start adding corals that acclimation mode seems pretty hands free awesome!

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That is the plan I'm gonna start them low other than the kessil it will not run under 20% but the radions will and then ramp up the intensity weekly like 5%. I'll be paying attention to my fish to see if their behavior changes and also looking to keep algae down to a minimum. I'll use the same approach with corals but i believe corals will be easier than fish to tell if the light is too high. Thanks for the input.

Ron Reefman
10/14/2016, 02:31 AM
Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features.


I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.

Ron Reefman
10/14/2016, 02:42 AM
I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.

Lighting probably isn't your issue. Lights can have some effect on cyanobacteria, but there are lots of other contributing factors as well. If you are trying to get rid of the cyano strictly by adjusting your lights you will likely be unsuccessful.

The one thing you can do is siphon out all the cyano and then run with your lights off for 3 days. Or 1 day with lights off and 3 or 4 days with just blue leds (the corals will be happier but the cyano won't like it.

But your real problem is probably flow (as Grimreaperz said) and nutrient (including carbon).

Grimreaperz
10/14/2016, 09:51 AM
I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.
Oh yeah sorry I was talking about mine in particular I paid 150 shipped for Globalstar 300w 5wLeD x 60
Only has 2 channels with manual dials. I am.sure there are other China specials but you will still even pay more for those with the feature then those without. Just saying in general you get what you pay for. same in computers. I'm sure if I was to fork over an extra 100 or so I could have gotten cool features too. All still cheaper then the Radions but still paying that extra dollar for that convenience factor.

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hitawaah
10/14/2016, 11:12 AM
I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.

Hello there Ron,
Yeah I was referring to you in the above post I had read your posts in another thread where you and another gentleman had a real healthy discussion about the differences. For me it was a real eye opener like I said probably too late now but useful in the future if I need a light. You point out a lot of aspects people just automatically say oh their cheap black boxes they must be junk whereas they aren't (some kinds might be) but you named the manufacturers and the model that you personally use. Thanks for your input!

Ron Reefman
10/15/2016, 12:27 AM
Oh yeah sorry I was talking about mine in particular I paid 150 shipped for Globalstar 300w 5wLeD x 60
Only has 2 channels with manual dials. I am.sure there are other China specials but you will still even pay more for those with the feature then those without. Just saying in general you get what you pay for. same in computers. I'm sure if I was to fork over an extra 100 or so I could have gotten cool features too. All still cheaper then the Radions but still paying that extra dollar for that convenience factor.

No problem. It just seemed like you were throwing out the baby with tha bathwater, so to speak. There is a lot of junk from China, and even some of their better products still have some very weak points. But not all Chinese products are cheap junk. And I use some of those black box leds with manual dimmers. The light they produce will still grow most anything.

Hello there Ron,
Yeah I was referring to you in the above post I had read your posts in another thread where you and another gentleman had a real healthy discussion about the differences. For me it was a real eye opener like I said probably too late now but useful in the future if I need a light. You point out a lot of aspects people just automatically say oh their cheap black boxes they must be junk whereas they aren't (some kinds might be) but you named the manufacturers and the model that you personally use. Thanks for your input!

Any time. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have over 12 years of experience and keep 4 tanks (400+ gallons total). Experience counts for something! :beer:

hitawaah
10/15/2016, 01:04 AM
Any time. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have over 12 years of experience and keep 4 tanks (400+ gallons total). Experience counts for something!

In my opinion experience is the biggest part of this hobby. You can read all day and it helps but until your actually doing it or dealing with an issue that's where experience kicks in and mistakes don't get made as often. Also I really appreciate your willingness everyday to help people you don't know on this forum by sharing your experience and knowledge. I know you've answered a few of my questions and helped me make the right decision or point me in the right direction. People like you make this forum great cause you can get answers from qualified experienced people who have went through some of the same stuff as you. Please keep up the great work! Thank you.

tri4god
10/15/2016, 08:45 PM
Very helpful. I want to convert from T5 lighting to LED. I have a reef tank with 2 clowns and a goby. I feel kind of lost with all the info out there on the internet,

Ron Reefman
10/16/2016, 06:04 AM
Very helpful. I want to convert from T5 lighting to LED. I have a reef tank with 2 clowns and a goby. I feel kind of lost with all the info out there on the internet,

If you have any questions (specific or general) ask away. There is help here.

D_Nyholm
10/18/2016, 09:23 AM
I'm building a 40 breeder frag tank for LPS and softies. Might go to sps later but I doubt it. Any suggestion for a light that will be well under $200? I'm thinking the Mars Aqua 300w is my only choice or if I can find 2x used Chinese black boxes. Is there anything else out there that I haven't seen? I would definitely like to stay Led too. Thanks!

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Ron Reefman
10/19/2016, 05:13 AM
There aren't a lot of choices for a 4' tank that are led and come in at under $200. The MarsAqua should be a good light for your needs though.

rookum
10/23/2016, 05:39 PM
How old is the tank? Cyano is quite common in new tanks. Part of the cycling maturing process. Try to reduce feeding. And increase flow at the sand bed level.

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Tank is a year old. I've had it two months. I'm assuming that along with it being a new tank the movie love it kick some things up and probably destabilized the tank to a degree. I'm just running the lights at 25%. More Blues than whites, right lower the lights to their 529 inch height above the tank with a should be for a 90 degree optic lens I just don't know how low I can turn these LEDs down if it's going to hurt the coral and not that type of stuff. Water parameters are fine except nitrates.
Salinity 1.026
pH 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Alk 8
Phosphorus 0
Cal 520
40 gallon breeder with a maxspect 130. Only running under halfway
Feed once a week now, was heavy handed when I got the tank.
Inhabitants are
6 line wrasse
Two snowflake clowns
Full sized engineer goby,so I was told.
Blue Dotty
Serpent star
One green carpet anemone
2 small btas bringing them back from the dead I think?
Few mushrooms
Two types of star polyps
Couple hermits and snail.
Used chemiclean two weeks ago but here I am again.

rookum
10/23/2016, 05:45 PM
Lighting probably isn't your issue. Lights can have some effect on cyanobacteria, but there are lots of other contributing factors as well. If you are trying to get rid of the cyano strictly by adjusting your lights you will likely be unsuccessful.

The one thing you can do is siphon out all the cyano and then run with your lights off for 3 days. Or 1 day with lights off and 3 or 4 days with just blue leds (the corals will be happier but the cyano won't like it.

But your real problem is probably flow (as Grimreaperz said) and nutrient (including carbon).

I did turn off one power head. Thought this maxspect gyre would be plenty. I can definitely dark out the tank. Thanks.

Ron Reefman
10/24/2016, 04:22 AM
I did turn off one power head. Thought this maxspect gyre would be plenty. I can definitely dark out the tank. Thanks.

IMHO, the more flow you can have in your tank the better. Obviously, at some point the flow starts to disturb certain corals or the sand bed, but if everybody is currently OK with the flow, consider adding more. The new wavemaker pumps with adjustable speed and flow patterns really make this a lot easier than it use to be... back in the days of no waves and single speed pumps.

Good luck.

rookum
10/24/2016, 07:11 PM
Turned off the light. Just running blues at 40 % to keep them happy. Cyano is already starting to peel off. I'll be siphoning what I can when I can. But for the first 24 I'm impressed. Have a great picture to post but my silly self can't figure it out at this time. Thanks. I'll be back

Ron Reefman
10/25/2016, 08:34 AM
Have a great picture to post but my silly self can't figure it out at this time. Thanks. I'll be back

It may be due to not having enough posts yet or just that you are new to the system. I expect a moderator will let you know now that you've asked. There is also a forum where you can ask such questions about how RC works.

rookum
10/25/2016, 09:05 AM
Thanks Ron. Appreciate the help!

Elricsfate
10/25/2016, 12:21 PM
This is a great thread, and of interest to me as I am in the beginning stage of setting up my 180. Starting off FOWLR, and intending to add some corals somewhere down the road. My plan currently was to buy 2-3 Aquatic Life Halo MX80's to light the tank.

Money is not a big issue, though obviously I'm not trying to waste it unnecessarily.

The tank is 72x24x24. Any thoughts on this light selection?

Thanks in advance.

Ron Reefman
10/26/2016, 05:56 AM
I'd never seen this fixture before you asked about it, so I'm not even close to an expert on this one.

I like the design, In fact I like it a lot! I think the led color choices are very good and a good ratio of blue to white. BTW Premium Aquatics has the deluxe version on sale for $275 and free shipping? It does make me wonder why? Is there an new or improved model coming?

The down side comments are few. Looking at several sites I never saw anybody talk about the footprint of the fixture in a 24" deep tank. It's a pretty small fixture with 80 degree optics so I'm guessing 2'x2' at the upper limit. Which means you'll need 3 for coral, less for a FOWLR. They also don't do any red or green leds. It's funny, in a cheap... I mean inexpensive Chinese fixture where the leds are all spread out, I'd rather not have red or green leds as they add to the disco or colored shadow lines. But in a fixture like this, red and green leds would blend with everything else and there should be virtually no disco or shadow line issues.

Mixed feelings... you'll pay a healthy premium for the basic fixture compared to OceanRevive, MarsAqua, Reef Breeders and other basic Chinese fixtures. You'll be a lot closer to even up if you go for the premium fixture compared to Reef Breeders Photon V2, which I think is the best of the inexpensive full control fixtures. And the Aqua Life is just a 2 channel system where the RB Photon V2 is a 6 channel system.

My final review, it's very good looking and has good led spectrum IMHO, but it's a bit expensive compared to some of the competition. So it's a matter of what you are willing to pay for.

Elricsfate
10/26/2016, 08:26 AM
Thank you Ron. I am new around here, but I have read quite a few of your posts with great interest.

I looked up the RB Photon V2. Unfortunately, it appears the largest one the sell is the 50, which is "ideal for tanks up to 60 inches". My tank is 72". That's one of the reasons I have given a lot of consideration to the pendant style lighting.

In your opinion would the absence of red or green negatively impact that inhabitants, or is it simple an aesthetic thing pertaining to how the tank looks from the outside?

With regard to cost, that is not a primary concern. I am blessed to be able to afford to purchase whatever I need. But I don't want to pay extra for nothing. So my concern is first and foremost, what equipment will best provide for the needs of my tank's inhabitants. If two pieces of equipment are equally able to fill this requirement, then I will opt for the less expensive one. But price is not my primary concern when selecting equipment.

I appreciate you, and all the others, being willing to help people make these tough decisions. When I first got into this 15 years ago it was a lot of reading books, guessing, and talking to the guys at the monthly club meeting. I did not have access to experienced reefers, in a timely manner, with the patience and willingness to entertain all of my newbie questions.

I feel like I am much more likely to be successful with this new endeavor, because I can get advice from folks like you.

Cheers

Ron Reefman
10/26/2016, 05:10 PM
The absence of red and green leds isn't a big deal IMHO. Over my reef (mostly sps and some lps) I have them turned off and with my old leds, where I couldn't turn them off, I covered them with black electrical tape! I never had any issues. There is more than enough red and green spectrum in the white leds.

On the other hand, over my display refugium, I run 100% on the red and green leds as they do help with the photosynthesis of algae.

One of the biggest complaints I hear about leds is the 'disco' effect or red and green edging along shadows. Fixtures that spread out the leds have this issue. Fixtures that pack them into small spaces, like the Aquatic Life fixture, can have red and geer leds and because they are more of a single point light source, they don't have the shadow line issues. The fact that Aquatic Life left them out isn't anything I'd be concerned about.

Elricsfate
10/27/2016, 06:56 AM
Thanks again.

I've been watching the BRS "52 Weeks of Reefing" series on Youtube. Last night was all the episodes about light. After everything I heard and saw I have to admit I am now thinking about a T5/LED hybrid.

Lots of things to consider... But, I'll muck through it in time.

Thesaltysplash
11/21/2016, 11:16 PM
Hello reefers,

I have a marine Reef Fluval 2.0 light and the Fluval Wi-Fi adapter.

I'm having problems getting the scheduling set on the application. It seems which ever light i adjust last (blue or white) becomes the running light day and night.

I made sure it was set to red before beginning. Anyone got experience with these?

razord
11/23/2016, 09:24 AM
I'm just getting back into the hobby. My prior experience and equipment are all "pre-LED". My old setup that I'm using is 4 65w PCs on a 55g and I'm considering switching to LEDs. I don't what a DIY unit. My preference would be a plug and play unit that would fit under a wooden canopy. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

ReefinND
11/23/2016, 02:16 PM
Hi everyone, I just kind of wanted to double check that my lights will be able to handle (for the most part) most corals...assuming I get to the point of trying my hand at SPS for example.

I have two of these lights (http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_NemoLight_AquaMarine_48_56_Inch_LED_Fixture_With_Controller_72_Watts_LED_Light_Fixtures_for _Aquariums-AquaMaxx-UJ94550-FILTFILD-vi.html), over my standard rectangle 90 gal. If I remember right, they said that they could handle some of them but I was looking at so many different things that I don't really remember anymore.

Ron Reefman
11/23/2016, 04:57 PM
I'm just getting back into the hobby. My prior experience and equipment are all "pre-LED". My old setup that I'm using is 4 65w PCs on a 55g and I'm considering switching to LEDs. I don't what a DIY unit. My preference would be a plug and play unit that would fit under a wooden canopy. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Google MarsAqua, or OceanRevive if you are looking for good basic led fixtures.

Ron Reefman
11/23/2016, 05:07 PM
Hi everyone, I just kind of wanted to double check that my lights will be able to handle (for the most part) most corals...assuming I get to the point of trying my hand at SPS for example.

I have two of these lights (http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_NemoLight_AquaMarine_48_56_Inch_LED_Fixture_With_Controller_72_Watts_LED_Light_Fixtures_for _Aquariums-AquaMaxx-UJ94550-FILTFILD-vi.html), over my standard rectangle 90 gal. If I remember right, they said that they could handle some of them but I was looking at so many different things that I don't really remember anymore.

Very iffy for some LPS and most SPS, IMHO. Most good led fixtures use 3 watt leds and then run them at 2 or 2.2 watts so they run cool. And you'd need 2 standard 16" fixtures with 55 leds in each (110 leds at 2.2 watts = 242 watts). Your fixture has over 100 leds and runs at 24 watts (2 fixtures = 48 watts). That's less than 0.25 watts each. They will light up and look bright to your eyes, but at 12 to 18" deep in the water they will be very weak. The fact that you have 2 may help some, but not the double you would like to think. If they don't have much punch (0.24 watts), 2 is hardly better than 1 at about 12" or deeper.
Sorry.

ReefinND
11/23/2016, 05:33 PM
Rats, here I thought they were going to be somewhat decent.

Here's my list of corals I like and what I was kind of planning on eventually getting too. Think most of these will be out or ?

Toadstool
Cabbage
Torch
Flower Pot
Cauliflower Colt
Fire & Ice Colony Polyp
Lavender Mushroom
Birdsnest
Neon pineapple Tree
Blue Mushroom
Cauliflower

I had kind of avoided most SPS but I think a few had slipped in there.

razord
12/13/2016, 08:40 AM
Hello,
I'm looking to supplement my current lighting system on a 48" tank. I have a lighting unit, but have a little extra room where I'd like to sneak in a LED strip. Does anyone sell a good LED tube/single strip that's kind of thin? No more than 2-3" wide I'd say

Foundry
12/19/2016, 09:58 AM
As everyone has noted getting clean info on LED lighting is tricky.
At the moment we are running a 25gal nano reef (16in deep) and I want to upgrade lighting. The hood we are using has 2x 24in T8's and isn't much good for anything but mushrooms (even then they aren't thriving). It was good for when it was FOLWR tank but now its coral time.

LFS suggested refitting with Sunblaster HOT5's (which they have) or something like this
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/331972755776

Economically the ebay light strip makes sense but I am weary. The light spectrum looks reasonable however after 2 days of searching and reading the last 6 pages of this thread I can't gather enough info to accurately evaluate these lights. We'd like to run soft corals and perhaps some SPS's down the road. The T5's are the go-to option but the refit will look kinda garbage. Where the tank is situated there are no options to hang lighting above and little room behind for accessories.

Any advice?

Foundry
12/19/2016, 10:53 AM
Wrong link...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/165W-MarsAqua-Dimmable-LED-Aquarium-Light-Full-Spectrum-Coral-Reef-Tank-Marine/371789678329?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39923%26meid%3D338cfc95e1d9418c9d476c21ad65 6eb1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D370858771177

Ron Reefman
12/20/2016, 08:27 AM
You might look at the OceanRevive T247 fixture (they have a sponsor forum here).

It's about $30 more, but it's a much better looking (more modern) fixture, has the same basic led layout as the MarsAqua. And both will have good light for any corals in even a 24" deep tank. The OR T247 comes with adjustable legs, a built-in on/off timer for each channel and digital dimmer control (not sunrise/sunset but better than manual dimmers).

razord
12/21/2016, 12:29 PM
Hello,
I'm looking to supplement my current lighting system on a 48" tank. I have a lighting unit, but have a little extra room where I'd like to sneak in a LED strip. Does anyone sell a good LED tube/single strip that's kind of thin? No more than 2-3" wide I'd say

ok, so I found what I'm looking for from 21LEDUSA. Going to go with a ReefBar Pro, but curious which one to buy. If I'm supplementing my current PCs, should I go with a 50/50 bar or Full Spectrum? I'd love to hear someone's thoughts on that.

https://www.21ledusa.com/aquarium_led_reefbar_pro_48_5050_p/rbp505048.htm

Thanks!!!

RobZilla04
12/21/2016, 12:34 PM
ok, so I found what I'm looking for from 21LEDUSA. Going to go with a ReefBar Pro, but curious which one to buy. If I'm supplementing my current PCs, should I go with a 50/50 bar or Full Spectrum? I'd love to hear someone's thoughts on that.

https://www.21ledusa.com/aquarium_led_reefbar_pro_48_5050_p/rbp505048.htm

Thanks!!!

Hopefully you added the $6 dimmer option?

razord
12/21/2016, 01:15 PM
I didn't buy yet. Still looking to see if I'm better off getting 50/50 or full spectrum?

balo971
12/26/2016, 10:56 AM
thanks for the link

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:04 AM
Or you can try this is del chinese ramp
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2013-Newest-Houyi-Dimmable-165W-led-aquarium-lights-for-coral-reef-Aquarium-Lamp-3years-warranty/1538968767.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.474.FAZK2m&detailNewVersion=&categoryId=200001054

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:09 AM
WIFI 165w marine aquarium led lighting Dimmable Full Spectrum led aquarium light for coral reef fish

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:10 AM
LED Qty : 55 pcs
Rated power: 165 w(55pcs x 3w )
View Angle of LEDs : 120 degree

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:12 AM
Wifi control simulating sunrise, sunset, cycle lunar.

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:14 AM
you can control led ligthing whith android or IOS

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:14 AM
it's a good stuff for cheap.

balo971
12/26/2016, 11:15 AM
In this ramp you have red, green, royal blue, blue and white colour

air breather
12/27/2016, 07:18 AM
what is the optimum combination of T5 and LED wattage for a 110 gal high for soft coral and fish?

Ron Reefman
12/28/2016, 05:08 AM
Trying to figure out wattage of lighting for a tank used to be a common formula with MH and t5. But even back in the day it was a VERY shaky way to size your lights. And since leds have come onto the seen with dimmers and controllers and now even some t5 are dimmable, wattage formulas are pretty much out the window. What you really want to look at is PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation), and there is a meter for measuring PAR. Look around and you may find a nearby fellow reefer with one you can borrow, an LFS or even some outfits rent them out.

Get led fixtures that will work for your tank. Then add any t5 you want and dial back the leds a bit. Even a Current Orbit led fixture would probably be OK with 2 or 4 t5 bulbs given you just have soft corals, But I'd recommend sticking with led fixtures that use 3 or 5 watt leds and that way you can always migrate to lps or even sps if you want to.

rudymama
01/03/2017, 04:03 PM
my tank I have is 55 gal. it's currently in the cycling stage.
haven't decided if I should do coral reef or just fish with live rock.
what are the pros and cons. what lightening would I need for a regular fish set up and what's good but affordable for a reef set up

Ron Reefman
01/04/2017, 04:52 AM
Well, the pros and cons about fish only tanks and coral reef tanks are probably better addressed in the regular forum as this one is supposed to be for lighting.

Lighting:

A fish only tank can run with pretty much anything for lighting, even a $25 fluorescent shop light from the local hardware store. All you are doing is lighting the tank so you can see the fish.

A coral reef tank has live corals which host an algae inside the polyps called zooxanthellae and it needs strong cool white light. The algae needs the bright light to be able to perform photosynthesis which feeds the coral. You'll want to buy a fixture that is specifically made for lighting a coral reef aquarium. Easy corals need a bit less light and harder corals need rather intense light. Fixtures can be MH (Metal Halide), t5 fluorescent or led (or some combination of these). A basic fixture for a 55g tank that is 4' long will cost at least $100 for the very cheapest t5 fluorescent and $200 for a couple of MarsAqua led fixtures and the sky's the limit after that. Some fixtures for a 4' reef tank can run up over $1500!

BGW
01/06/2017, 06:06 PM
Hello, I'm just getting back in the hobby after a few years down time.....I have a 75g that will be about 16 inches deep when it's running.....I have 2 Vertex Illumilux 36" led fixtures that sit about 3 inches above the waterline....since I'm starting from scratch again...

What would do well with this current set-up.......???? If anything..??!! I would like to do a live rock reef of course, but not sure about what else besides the rock...??!!http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/04a7cedece31a2b8f32efaec4b7541f8.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/daef8e5111f40c1dbff570b75e29fc2e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/f9b08593bb47368308f162bd0bf1459e.jpg


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BGW
01/06/2017, 06:19 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/8664338c344f7d269c75b9707fe79f12.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

air2mag
01/11/2017, 08:41 AM
Thanks for all the great information Ron. I am just starting my 75 build and your posts have been very informative. I think most people call something "cheap" based on price alone. They should really be weighing their purchase based on value. That will of course be at a different price point for each individual.

Ron Reefman
01/12/2017, 04:30 AM
Thanks for all the great information Ron. I am just starting my 75 build and your posts have been very informative. I think most people call something "cheap" based on price alone. They should really be weighing their purchase based on value. That will of course be at a different price point for each individual.

Thanks for saying so. I know how much I struggled to understand how things work in this hobby and I just want to help people find it easier than I did. Good luck with your 75g. My second tank was a 75g and I eventually added a 35g hexagon tank as a display refugium where I could also keep critters I wouldn't put in my DT.

Although I agree, I do feel the word 'cheap' often carries with it the connotation that it is poorly made. And when used in conjunction with calling it out for being 'made in China' I think that 'poorly made' is often what they want to say.

Andre russo
01/16/2017, 08:50 PM
Building a 29 gallon reef. I'm in the cycling stages. Wanting to keep a mixed reef of sps LPs and softies. Was looking at the current orbit marine. Any suggestion on this light. Trying to keep the price as close to 100.00 as possible.

Ron Reefman
01/17/2017, 04:53 AM
If you tank is the 18" tall version of a 29g tank, the Current Orbit is a shaky choice as it uses 0.5 watt leds which don't penetrate the water as well as all the other fixtures which use 3w or 5w leds. It's a great fish only fixture and OK for corals over a 12" deep tank. Even at 18" it is probably OK for zoas and softies. But it's probably not the best choice for lps and certainly not a good choice for sps corals in an 18" deep tank.

Look around and you'll see only Marineland sells a similar led fixture and it looks the same. My guess is it's made by the same company in China and I find it depressing that these 2 companies continue to sell these as reef lighting for deep tanks. You won't find anybody else selling an led fixture with that kind of control for under $350 and there is a reason for that, theirs work and the Current and Marineland don't!

Look at the MarsAqua or one of the handful of other fixtures that look similar. It's less sophisticated in terms of control, but WAY, WAY better in terms of light energy that it will provide for the corals

ragekage1121
01/18/2017, 10:40 AM
Greetings fellow Reefers,

I am getting back into the hobby and a 15 year hiatus. Currently I have a new tank (not set up) yet and looking to get all the items to begin setup.

The tank is a 45Gal tank measuring 36" Long by 12" Wide by 24" deep

I currently have a 29Gal reef that I will eventually be changing over to the 45. My current Corals are a Green Star Polyp, 2 Green Bubble Corals, Several Plate Corals and various mushrooms.

I have been looking over two Led lighting options but I am not honestly sure if either of these are a suitable option. Would love some feedback on these and or a good "Affordable" recommendation for LED's is neither options is a good one. Either light will be the 36" light

Option 1. http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-lighting/LED-Aquarium-Lighting/Reef-LED-Strip-Light.aspx

Option 2. http://current-usa.com/aquarium-led-lights/orbit-marine-fixtures/orbit-marine-pro/




Thank you for any assistance!!

Andre russo
01/24/2017, 08:58 PM
This past weekend I acquired a sunpod 160 mh light. Don't know much about the light as info is scarce as its a discontinued item from current. I'm assuming since it is a mh it should serve me well for softies and LPs. Is this correct? Also what's the chances of it working with sps and will/should I add an actenic?

Ron Reefman
01/25/2017, 04:53 AM
It would help to know the wattage of the bulb, and the color temp of the bulb (i.e. 3000K which is a warm reddish white, up to 20,000K which is a cool bluish white) and how deep your tank is. BTW, just to be clear, the K is for Kelvin which is a color 'temperature' not a hot/cold temperature.

Most people have great success with MH light. My concern is that a 150w bulb that is a warm white over a deep tank may struggle some. Or that a 400w bulb over a shallow 12" deep tank could bleach corals.

IMHO, the normal 250w or even a 400w bulb over a 24" deep tank with the bulb 12" to 24" off the water should be good to grow any coral... even sps.

Some people add blue or actinic light with t5 fluorescent bulbs or 400nm to 480nm leds. But the higher K color temp that is cool bluish white has a lot of blue spectrum in it already.

The other issues with MH is that they run quite hot and can raise the water temperature enough that you may need a chiller to keep the water cool enough (like under 82F) and some MH have issues with ballasts malfunctioning.

Andre russo
01/25/2017, 06:42 PM
Ron I have no idea what the wattage is to be exact if I had to guess it would be 150. The light to cast a bluish hue to the tank. The only lights of this kind that I've found are on ebay and were 150 so Thsts where my guess comes in at. I'm doing a fishless cycle so I've left the light on for 12 hours and the water temp never made it above 73. The tank is a regular 29 gallon.

Andre russo
01/25/2017, 06:47 PM
content://media/external/file/17438

Andre russo
01/25/2017, 06:52 PM
How do I post a pic of the light?

Ron Reefman
01/26/2017, 02:59 AM
A standard 29g is 30" long so if you mount the fixture high enough it should cover the tank OK end to end. If it is indeed a 150w bulb it should be strong enough for most corals in your tank as it isn't 24" deep. And the blue/white color is a good thing. You probably don't need to consider any actinic t5 fluorescent or blue led supplements unless you get to doing a lot of sps corals, and that shouldn't be for at least 6 to 12 months.

I post my photos at Photobucket and then copy the 'IMG' link and insert that in my post here. It works OK, but Photobucket seems to be getting slower and slower as well as loaded up with ads now that make it a bit 'funky' to use compared to a year or 2 ago.

Good luck and keep asking questions, that's the way to learn.

Doostur
02/06/2017, 08:46 PM
Greetings fellow Reefers,

The tank is a 45Gal tank measuring 36" Long by 12" Wide by 24" deep

I have been looking over two Led lighting options but I am not honestly sure if either of these are a suitable option. Would love some feedback on these and or a good "Affordable" recommendation for LED's is neither options is a good one. Either light will be the 36" light

Option 1. http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-lighting/LED-Aquarium-Lighting/Reef-LED-Strip-Light.aspx

Option 2. http://current-usa.com/aquarium-led-lights/orbit-marine-fixtures/orbit-marine-pro/




Thank you for any assistance!!

Would love to hear some suggestions on this as well. Just got into the hobby. Also have a 36" Long by 12" Wide by 24" deep. We plan to have coral/fish. Leaning toward one of the reefbreeders systems. Pricey but seem worth it. Looking for something programmable.

Mikee002
02/13/2017, 12:18 PM
I need a suggestion and I'm hoping this is a great place to ask. I'm currently running a Mars Aqua eBay LED over a 20x18x20 aquarium. I have some SPS and they're doing good, but I want controllability. I've narrowed it down to a Kessil 360w or a Radion Pro 15. They're both great lights, far as I have heard, but I haven't heard TOO much about the Radion 15. Can anyone suggest one over the other?

What percentages do you have your blues and whites at? I'm getting ready to start my tank with this light and I don't know where to start with ratios and intensity.

crash29ca
02/20/2017, 02:19 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who help with the info on here. I am in the planning stages of either a 90gal 4' tank and a 125 gal 6' tank. My final decision is probably going to come down to what I can afford. Lights were the major factor in this. Before this thread I really believed I couldn't do a mixed reef on a 6' without spending $2000 plus on lights. No I have more research to do. Really want to keep lights around $1000. So I am leaning towards a 4' with messily or RB. Don't think 1 radion will do it for a 4'. And unfortunately I don't think 2 AI primes will either. If you guys have other suggestions for solutions for either size feel free to let me know. Keep in mind I live in Canada so any US cost are 35 to 40 % higher for me. I live next to Detroit so going to the US to pick something up is not a problem. Just have to add the exchange rate to the cost.

Ron Reefman
02/20/2017, 04:50 PM
Funny, I used to live in Detroit and bought my beer in Windsor (there were better Canadian beers that didn't get to the US).

4' or 6' tank, if you don't care about fancy control like sunrise/sunset or more than 2 channels you can do a 6' tank with 3 (pretty well) or 4 (seriously sps coral ready) fixtures (the basic 16" type). MarsAqua is probably the cheapest, there are a few others between $100/fixture and $200/fixture. Three OceanRevive fixtures at $200 would grow anything in a 6' tank and you'd have built-in timers, digital 0-100% dimmers and extra coverage because they have a bigger spread of leds than the regular black box leds from China.

If you want all the bells and whistles, and these are for your fun, the corals really don't care much about sunrise or multiple channel color control, 2 of the Reef Breeders Photon V2 32" would cost you $1000. A single $800 Radion isn't even enough for the 4' tank and you'd need 3 for a 6' tank. Then try and tell me why you think the extra $1250 is worth it?

You can see my tank lit by a RB Photon V2 50" (5' tank) in my build thread. There is a link in my sig below.

crash29ca
02/24/2017, 01:00 AM
Thanks again Ron Reefman for the advice on the lights. They just started carrying the reefbreeder lights here in Canada at an online store. That means they meet the Canadian electrical code. They are a bit cheaper than ordering the through the US too which is always nice. The $100 price difference between the US and Canada is less than the exchange rate so yay!! I have also decided on the 4ft tank after factoring everything in including a really good price on it at my lfs. Start a thread in the build section once I am closer to getting everything and keep you guys posted on how I like the lights.

Ron Reefman
02/24/2017, 06:56 AM
Glad to hear it. Did you decide on a 32" or a 48" fixture for the 48" tank?

One other comment, get a USB port to dedicate to the remote. The battery lasts about 3 to 6 weeks if not used and after that, you'll need to charge it before you can use it. And with no controls on the fixture, a dead remote then you need it is a PITA. I bought a small USB extension cord that plugs into the wall so I can keep it in the dry cabinet and have it ready whenever I need it.

crash29ca
02/26/2017, 04:56 PM
I will keep that in mind for the remote. I posted my plan in the tank build/journal section. now just got to start saving like mad to get everything.

crash29ca
02/26/2017, 04:57 PM
Oh and most likely the 48" light. they are sold under evergrow here in Canada.

Ron Reefman
02/27/2017, 06:22 PM
Oh and most likely the 48" light. they are sold under evergrow here in Canada.

Actually EverGrow is a large Chinese factory that assembles led fixtures. They sell plant and greenhouse grow led fixtures all over the world. They private label the Photon V2 for Reef Breeders and they also make OceanRevive's T247 and some of ReefRadiance fixtures. So you are buying from the builder.

themummra
02/27/2017, 10:26 PM
Is there any scientific data about what light spectrum is needed for the corals, and how much watts/lumens to look at?

If not, is there a general consensus? Specifically a Biocube 29 that I will be building the LED for.

themummra
02/27/2017, 11:06 PM
Is there any scientific data about what light spectrum is needed for the corals, and how much watts/lumens to look at?

If not, is there a general consensus? Specifically a Biocube 29 that I will be building the LED for.

Found some good info searching AA.

I'm going to (try to) build an LED rack with primarily 12kWhite & 445nm Blue, with 2-3 RGB leds for small adjusting. Building a light is something I've been wanting to learn for other projects so this is a good excuse to get started.

For beginner corals and fish I'm thinking I need 100-200 PAR? And does 300W sound about right or should I go higher.

VirginiaMarine
03/02/2017, 06:22 AM
Greetings fellow Reefers,



I am getting back into the hobby and a 15 year hiatus. Currently I have a new tank (not set up) yet and looking to get all the items to begin setup.



The tank is a 45Gal tank measuring 36" Long by 12" Wide by 24" deep



I currently have a 29Gal reef that I will eventually be changing over to the 45. My current Corals are a Green Star Polyp, 2 Green Bubble Corals, Several Plate Corals and various mushrooms.



I have been looking over two Led lighting options but I am not honestly sure if either of these are a suitable option. Would love some feedback on these and or a good "Affordable" recommendation for LED's is neither options is a good one. Either light will be the 36" light



Option 1. http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-lighting/LED-Aquarium-Lighting/Reef-LED-Strip-Light.aspx



Option 2. http://current-usa.com/aquarium-led-lights/orbit-marine-fixtures/orbit-marine-pro/









Thank you for any assistance!!



I had one of the previous generation Marineland LEDs and it worked fine for softies and LPS on my 36" 30 gallon tank. The old lights didn't have a timer built in so if you set it up on an external timer I think it was damaging the power supply. Mine had to be replaced a couple of times. The new ones have the timer built in. One thing, they have extenders so they can reach up to 36" or up to 48". Two lights will "fit" a 36" tank but the smaller one will have shadows in the upper corners. Go with the larger one for much better coverage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ron Reefman
03/03/2017, 03:59 AM
Both of those fixtures use 0.5 watt leds and are not well suited for coral in tanks of 24" depth. They probably shouldn't even be used for coral in an 18" deep tank. They are fine over a small 12" deep tank or a fish only tank. You can do WAY better for $100 to $150.

TokiHacker
03/07/2017, 11:08 AM
ok so on my JBJ frag tank I have the frag slightly lifted on 3inch circles that has eggcrate over it for placement. I have a 165w Chinese black box over it about 18inches high. is this high enough? light acclimation procedure? I have started it all the way on low but kinda need to know how high I need or can go?

Jhull9200
03/17/2017, 06:55 AM
I'll start by saying I'm very new to this.
I have a 150gallon which is 30" deep, i started with a dual t5 55watt 48" light and feel it was nowhere near adequate, so I replaced it with a current usa 4103 48watt led light. I'm starting to feel I may need more lighting, but I don't want to overkill it. Can anyone tell me if this lighting Is enough or if I should add more bars. I currently have polyps which are mostly within 5" of the floor. Leathers which are also located low And a couliflower coral approx 10" from the bottom.

TokiHacker
03/17/2017, 07:19 AM
I'll start by saying I'm very new to this.
I have a 150gallon which is 30" deep, i started with a dual t5 55watt 48" light and feel it was nowhere near adequate, so I replaced it with a current usa 4103 48watt led light. I'm starting to feel I may need more lighting, but I don't want to overkill it. Can anyone tell me if this lighting Is enough or if I should add more bars. I currently have polyps which are mostly within 5" of the floor. Leathers which are also located low And a couliflower coral approx 10" from the bottom.

luckily the ones you currently have do not need such high intense light but a tank that size I would assume you need something stronger. I am getting my 180 setup and I ordered 3 Chinese 165w black boxes.

Jhull9200
03/17/2017, 07:37 AM
I forgot to mention I also have a hammer.
I would like to be able to do more as well so I don't want light to limit my tank.

TokiHacker
03/17/2017, 08:01 AM
I forgot to mention I also have a hammer.
I would like to be able to do more as well so I don't want light to limit my tank.

get some kessils or some black boxes. I am sure people out there no more brands than that. Those are just the ones I use personally.

gonna need at least 165w probably 3.

you also need to learn about Ca, Mg, Alk if you don't already know.

Ron Reefman
03/17/2017, 02:57 PM
Jhull9200, there are several questions regarding leds that if you answer, you can get some real help.

1) Do you want 1 long fixture or are 2 shorter fixtures or 3 pendant fixtures OK with you?
2) Do you want hanging fixtures or fixtures with legs? And do you have a canopy over the tank?
3) Do you have a budget in mind?
4) There are basic Chinese black boxes that work very well and come in several sizes. ($100ea. to $200ea.)
5) There are a few that have built-in timers to turn the 2 different channels (white & blue) on and off. ($140ea. to $200ea.)
6) Do you want sunrise/midday/sunset/moonlight control? These come in several sizes and are better looking than the Chinese black boxes (but good looks doesn't help coral grow). ($150 to $350)
7) Do you want more than 2 channel color control (like 6 or 8 channels)? These have sunrise/sunset ability as well. ($250 to $900)
8) Is a remote control good enough to set the lights or do you want WiFi or a computer to help set the lights? ($300+ to $900)

If I were in your position and just getting started, I'd go basic Chinese black box and keep it simple. They can grow any kind of coral in your tank, even at 30" deep. With a 6' long tank, 3 Mars Aqua or a couple of other brand fixtures at $100 to $125 each or 2 fixtures that are 32" long at about $175 each. Don't hold me to the price quotes, but I'm in the ballpark.

Once you know better what you are going to keep and you figure out what features you really want, then buy what you want and sell the used ones (or hang on to them as backups).

BTW, none of the features discussed above grow coral any better than the inexpensive Chinese black boxes with 3 watt leds. They give you the ability to make the tank look better for your pleasure, but do very, VERY little more for the coral. And there is no best fixture. People who tell you their's is the best are really telling you their's is the best for them. But it could be way off the mark for you. You need to buy what is best for you.

I like the control of sunrise/sunset because I'm home a lot and I like to watch the tank change as the day progresses. And I like having 6 channels of color control so I can fine tune the look in my tank. And a simple remote is all I need to set my lights, I don't care about WiFi or computer help setting them. I also have a fairly good budget so I could afford $900 for 2 fixtures ($600 for the big one and $300 for the small one... when they were on sale). Did I need these to grow healthy coral? Heck no. I used Chinese black boxes over my previous tanks that cost way less and they grew coral just as good as my new, more expensive ones. And mine are FAR from the most expensive. You'd need at least 2 and probably 3 Eco Tech Radions at $900 each (that's right... $2700 total) and they won't grow coral any better either!

This is what mine look like:

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/RonReefman/20161018_170631_zpsfaas63gv.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/RonReefman/media/20161018_170631_zpsfaas63gv.jpg.html)

Ron Reefman
03/17/2017, 03:03 PM
Oops, double post.

Jhull9200
03/17/2017, 06:01 PM
Thank you for the replies. It seems I was l way off again
Tokihacker I have been slowly learning more and more about that. I have so much more to learn and understand. I knew going into this it would be a harder hobby to keep up on but really had no idea it could be so complicated.
Ron those are beautiful tanks. It was seeing tanks like that that turned me onto this. To answer your questions I don't mind how many fixtures I have I'd rather have one that's 48" but if it's more realistic to do smaller ones I'd go that route. Ideally with legs as I do plan on putting a canopy on the top.
I don't need Wi-Fi or 28 colors I believe the one I currently have has white and blue at 8am it turns on does a sunrise then goes white till 7pm when it starts a sunset mode then does night mode till maybe 3am If incould get another light that is similar to that of be thrilled.
Oh and the cheaper the better! Haha

Ron Reefman
03/18/2017, 05:47 AM
Most, and maybe all, the Current USA led fixtures use 0.5 watt leds that just aren't strong enough for tanks that are 18" or deeper. All the other brands use 3w and even 5w leds which makes a HUGE difference.

If you are OK with the black box look, MarsAqua has good basic fixtures with manual dimmers, ViparSpectra has built-in digital dimmers and timers which are nice and finally Euphotica has full sunrise/sunset capability. The Reef Breeders Photon V2 (which I have) has all that as well as 6 channel color control and a much better looking case. They all have 32" versions (so you'd need 2) and 16" versions (so you'd need 3). Each one is more expensive than the next as the features and options get fancier. Just remember, the more expensive fixtures don't grow coral any better than the cheapest, they just have more things for you to play with and maybe make the tank look a bit more to your liking. But 3 MarsAqua 16" fixtures will certainly grow coral as well as any other, still has blue and white channels for reasonable color control and would only cost you about $300. Two of the RB Photon V2's would cost $680. And IMHO there is very little reason to spend more than that.

Kevin Guthrie
03/18/2017, 05:06 PM
When it was time to replace my 400w mh bulb I looked at going LED. But I'm not sure that what I see on line makes sense. For example the Mars Aqua "300w" fixture, that's the name of it, states that it is really 190 watts and states amp draw that backs that up. So what does the "300w" mean?

If I were to buy two of those to replace a 400w mh, I assume at full output it would be brighter and more par than the mh. Is that correct?

Ron Reefman
03/19/2017, 05:21 AM
When it was time to replace my 400w mh bulb I looked at going LED. But I'm not sure that what I see on line makes sense. For example the Mars Aqua "300w" fixture, that's the name of it, states that it is really 190 watts and states amp draw that backs that up. So what does the "300w" mean?

If I were to buy two of those to replace a 400w mh, I assume at full output it would be brighter and more par than the mh. Is that correct?

The fixture has 100 leds that are rated to be driven at 3 watts each, thus 300. They, drive theirs at about 1.9 watts, thus the 190 watts. BTW most other manufacturers drive theirs at 2.2 watts. Why MarsAqua uses the lower power driver is a mystery to me. You might look at ViparSpectra, Euphotica, Ocean Revive or other brands if you think the extra 30 watts from each fixture is helpful.

Whether 1 or 2 MarsAqua will produce as much PAR as a 400 watt MH is a good question. My best, semi-educated guess is yes, but it depends. How far off the water each fixture is, how much square footage of tank are you trying to cover, the quality and age of a 400w MH bulb and the fact that the MarsAqua uses a weaker driver than other brands. I say semi-educated guess because my experience comes from the fact that I had a MH fixture with two 250w bulbs, two 150w and four t5 bulbs that were 39w each. That's 800 watts of MH plus almost 160 watts of t5. I replaced that with two 300 watt led fixtures and ran them at 65% power (roughly 400 watts) and they did produce slightly more PAR and my corals did just as well with leds as they did with MH?t5.

Don't try to compare the MH to the led based on wattage. They do not work the same way and the light photons produced by each is not a relationship to the wattage each use. Wattage make be helpful comparing one MH to another or one t5 to another, but not to compare a MH to an led or a t5 to an led. The led has a lens and all the light produced is focused mostly down in a narrow 120 degree or 90 degree beam which makes them much more efficient.

Kevin Guthrie
03/19/2017, 07:16 AM
Thanks @Ron Reefman! Sounds like at same height/same tank the fixtures should at least have equivalent PAR which is what I am really looking for.

Having long ago replaced my household parabolic spots (the other PAR in bulbs) with LEDs I appreciate the added efficiency that comes from the individual reflectors and lenses on each diode. Given a 5 year life expectancy and less heat/more photons per watt LEDs seem like the way to go. Still I see plenty of posts about switching back to MH which makes me wonder what I am missing.

Ron Reefman
03/19/2017, 12:38 PM
Leds do have some issues, like shadowing under overhangs and ledges and even under dense branching coral like a pocillopora or birdsnest. They can also have red or green shadow edges or disco effect in the shimmer. MH have far less shadowing and no disco effect at all.

However, leds offer instant color control, the ability to ramp up and down for sunrise & sunset, the ability to do moonlights, the heavy blue lighting that make fluorescing corals glow, they run cooler and they use less electricity. Some of the newer led fixtures are even getting better looking than MH or t5 fixtures.

Leds used to be a lot more expensive than t5 or MH, but that's not true anymore. There are good, basic led fixtures out there for under $100.

Personally, I don't ever see myself switching back to MH. The new t5 that can be dimmed is interesting, but it's as expensive as anled fixture that can do 6 channel color control with a remote rather than buying and changing bulbs. Until something new AND better comes along, I think leds will just gain more and more popularity.

Crooked Reef
03/23/2017, 11:30 AM
For some reason the search function isn't working for me today, even though I am logged in it says I'm not. Will two ecotech Xr15 pros be sufficient to keep all corals I may want to in a standard 90 gallon or am I limited to what types of corals or a clam I can have?

Alashley
04/14/2017, 07:15 AM
Time 8:00 9:00 11:00 14:00 18:00 22:00
Channel "A" 0 30 45 60 45 0
Channel "B" 1 55 65 85 65 0
Date 1/29/16


For my Maxspect's these numbers seem to be working well. They seem to be giving me some good color. I will leave them there for a another 6-8 weeks, unless things prompt a change. If I get much over say 65% on Channel "A" I start to lose color.


sorry the numbers won't line up copied out of excel.

Hi, I know this was an older comment but I have a Maxpect Razor lighting as well. Is 12 hours on to much for your fish/corals? I know I have mine from 12-9 so roughly a 9-hour cycle because the 12-hour cycle seemed to be too much for my tank, however, the lights were ramping higher than what you have listed. Any advice would be appreciated! :)

Ron Reefman
04/14/2017, 09:14 AM
Hi, I know this was an older comment but I have a Maxpect Razor lighting as well. Is 12 hours on to much for your fish/corals? I know I have mine from 12-9 so roughly a 9-hour cycle because the 12-hour cycle seemed to be too much for my tank, however, the lights were ramping higher than what you have listed. Any advice would be appreciated! :)

Most photosynthetic corals need 5 to 7 hours of enough good light so the zooxanthellae (algae inside the coral polyps) can do photosynthesis. It takes roughly an hour of good light to kick start the process and then the 4 to 6 hours will be spent actually doing photosynthesis. More than the 6 to 7 hours does little for the coral as the zooxanthellae will shut down the photosynthetic process despite good strong light. This is a genetic preset that zooxanthellae have be doing for tens of thousands of years where they get 5 to 7 hours of strong light from the sun at depth on the reef. So more than 6 to 8 hours of strong light in your tank isn't going to change that genetic predisposition to shut down.

On the other hand, there is no good evidence that 10 to 16 hours of strong light does any harm. But 6 to 8 hours of dark down time for zooxanthellae is useful.

If you are not damaging your corals by bleaching, then the higher settings you are using are likely OK for your corals in your tank. And every fixture, tank and coral has a different level that is acceptable.

Alashley
04/14/2017, 09:59 AM
Most photosynthetic corals need 5 to 7 hours of enough good light so the zooxanthellae (algae inside the coral polyps) can do photosynthesis. It takes roughly an hour of good light to kick start the process and then the 4 to 6 hours will be spent actually doing photosynthesis. More than the 6 to 7 hours does little for the coral as the zooxanthellae will shut down the photosynthetic process despite good strong light. This is a genetic preset that zooxanthellae have be doing for tens of thousands of years where they get 5 to 7 hours of strong light from the sun at depth on the reef. So more than 6 to 8 hours of strong light in your tank isn't going to change that genetic predisposition to shut down.

On the other hand, there is no good evidence that 10 to 16 hours of strong light does any harm. But 6 to 8 hours of dark down time for zooxanthellae is useful.

If you are not damaging your corals by bleaching, then the higher settings you are using are likely OK for your corals in your tank. And every fixture, tank and coral has a different level that is acceptable.

I did bleach one of my torch corals and I cannot keep toadstool mushrooms in my tank because they "melt". I can only account that to my lighting being too strong but I don't know how to set them up optimally as a lot is subjective. :) It's a 75-gallon tank with a 15-gallon sump and my water parameters are good 10-15 gallon water change weekly using rodi. I posted a thread a few days which included my last week's water parameters with this issue and the consensus is my lighting but I don't want to adjust it incorrectly.

LostShoopuf
04/14/2017, 11:33 AM
The fixture has 100 leds that are rated to be driven at 3 watts each, thus 300. They, drive theirs at about 1.9 watts, thus the 190 watts. BTW most other manufacturers drive theirs at 2.2 watts. Why MarsAqua uses the lower power driver is a mystery to me.

As for why? Driving LEDs tends to be a balancing act between luminosity, current and heat. More current = more heat, more heat usually means the LED isn't as bright (and tends to fail sooner), but more current through the LED tends to make it brighter (and hotter and fail sooner). My initial thought would be to get a slightly higher MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure), but who knows maybe it could have been from a lower thermal requirement could mean saving costs on the heat sink and wires. Or maybe so they can pack in a few more LEDs overall on the power supply, or maybe the power supply they used wasn't quite to to snuff and they had to back things off a little, or...... Who knows.

Ron Reefman
04/14/2017, 02:24 PM
I really don't see led longevity being an issue. I have 2 fixtures that have been running solid for 6+ years with no issues ate 2.2 watts per led. And that is what every other black box led fixture runs at 2.2 watts/led rather than 1.8 watts for MarsAqua. And they don't run more leds either, theirs is like every other 16" black box with 55 leds.

That's why I said it's a mystery to me... and I guess it is to you as well.

MNFishGuy
04/18/2017, 04:21 PM
Hello all, I'm planning on keeping mushrooms and other softies in a 29g tank. The tank is lighted by a single Mars Aqua unit that puts out 160watts. The tank is 18" deep and the light is 12" above the water. How bright should I adjust the light? I originally had the whites on 100% and the Blues on 75% and the mushrooms, sympodium, and frogspawn were doing good for a while, but my mushrooms have started to "throw up" their guts and the frogspawns tentacles don't come out more than a millimeter now, and the sympodium does not open. Any help? I'm running the lights at 50% for whites and 25% for blues now but nothing is improving in the week I've toned down the lighting, any help please?


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Ron Reefman
04/18/2017, 05:45 PM
First I'd suggest you reverse your power settings. More blue and less white. A 2:1 ratio is good, like 60% blue and 30% white. I run my frag tank light at 90% blue and 10% white and the corals do just fine. They do better with blue light than they do with white. If you want, I'd be willing to explain why, but it has been written about in this forum more than a couple of times.

How long are your lights on?

But there is a very serious possibility that light is not your problem. That are your water parameters?
temperature?
salinity?
ammonia?
nitrates?
pH?
alk?

MNFishGuy
04/18/2017, 06:15 PM
Lights are on 12 hours a day. 8am-8pm. Temp is 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Salinity is a tad north of 32. SG is 1.024. Ammonia reads 0ppm, nitrates are at 0ppm, pH is 8.0, alk is 7dKH


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Ron Reefman
04/19/2017, 04:27 AM
OK, then try the light changes I suggested, more blue, less white and see if that helps.

MNFishGuy
04/19/2017, 06:02 AM
Ok. Thank you


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Ron Reefman
04/19/2017, 07:29 AM
This is just my attempt to run a basic list of the common black box led fixtures available as of this date.

The range of more inexpensive or economical ‘black box’ fixtures runs from very basic $100 units to $350 units with lot of features (even better looking cases than the basic black box). The name ‘black box’ refers to the fact that the case is just a rectangular box and not exactly aesthetically pleasing. That's OK inside a canopy, but some may not care for the look so much when it's just sitting on the tank. Most are either steel or aluminum (better) and painted or powder coated (better).

To be sure, I have missed or left out some brands here. This isn’t an effort to review every brand, just to give some basic understanding of the features available and some basic costs. Two features I didn’t cover are how many power cords each fixture uses, some have 1 and some have 2. Or the fact that basic fixtures have manual only controls, but those with more features may have remote controls, or wifi, or apps.

MarsAqua ($100): The case is the very definition of a black box. It is the least expensive and has the fewest features, 2 channels of leds, one blue & violet and the other all white with a couple of red and green tossed in. It has 2 manual dimmer knobs and no timers. As with all the true black box fixtures, it uses Bridgelux or Epistar leds. They work just fine and they cost less than Cree leds. Each channel also has a manual dimmer to control the intensity of the light. They also drive their leds at a 15% to 20% lower power level than all the others. So it doesn’t produce as intense a light as the others do, but it’s adequate for 24” deep tanks. It comes with a hanging kit but no legs or rear bracket mount. SB Reef Lights ($140) has a very similar version with legs and run at higher power levels equal to all the other brands other than MarsAqua.

Reef Breeders SuperLux and SB Reef Light ($200) are better fixtures that are almost the same but have built-in timers and digital dimmers with a remote control and both have adjustable legs. There are Viparspectra and Galaxyhydro brands (various sizes and prices) that are just like these Reef Breeders SuperLux fixture, but they don't have legs.

A better looking version of the 3 above is the OceanRevive T237B ($200). I own one of these. It's well made with an aluminum case, good fans and heat sinks. Like the RB SuperLux above, it has built-in timers and digital dimmers and adjustable legs. But instead of the standard black box case, it has a more modern looking case that is thinner and the upper surface is curved at the front and back edges so the top curves down to meet with the bottom surface. The spread of leds in this fixture is better as well.

If you like the idea of having a sunrise/sunset/moonlight controller and a standard black box case (with rounded corners), look at the Euphotica led ($265). Or the SB Reef Light version in a standard 30” long black box with legs ($400). They look to be very similar to the EverGrow made Reef Breeders Photon original design (not to be confused with the Photon V2 which is a much nicer fixture).

Probably the least expensive Chinese made fixture that comes in a much better looking case is the Reef Breeders Photon V2 ($340) and the EverGrow version (common outside the US). This is what I have over my display tanks now. It's only 1" thick, very streamline and modern looking and has adjustable legs. It also has lots of extra features that cost more, but the light for the tank is about the same (actually, a little better) than all the true black box fixtures as it uses 3 and 5 watt leds by Cree and OSRAM. It has the sunrise/sunset controller, but it also is the least expensive fixture to have 6 channels of led control (a channel for each color of led) that can ramp up & down separate from each other. This gives great control of the exact color in the aquarium, if that’s important to you? Just to be clear, your corals are happy with lots of blue, half as much white and maybe a dash of red.

Pdisner
05/24/2017, 03:34 AM
I really don't see led longevity being an issue. I have 2 fixtures that have been running solid for 6+ years with no issues ate 2.2 watts per led. And that is what every other black box led fixture runs at 2.2 watts/led rather than 1.8 watts for MarsAqua. And they don't run more leds either, theirs is like every other 16" black box with 55 leds.

That's why I said it's a mystery to me... and I guess it is to you as well.



I have been running 3 hydra 56. I have the same issue. Lights will shut off because of heat (or something) I'm only at 50% or less on ALL my channels


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Ron Reefman
05/26/2017, 03:42 PM
I have been running 3 hydra 56. I have the same issue. Lights will shut off because of heat (or something) I'm only at 50% or less on ALL my channels

I'm not that familiar with AI fixtures. Does yours have fans? Do the run... ever? If you have fans, and they run, you shouldn't have heat issues. Have you ever vacuumed or blown out the inside of the fixture through the vent holes? It's unlikely, but it could be clogged with dust?

IMHO, if you are having a heat issue with your leds, you need to have a conversation with AI... or is it Eco Tech now? I'd give their customer service a call ASAP.

j.falk
06/01/2017, 03:06 PM
Can anyone give me some advice on what type of LED light I would need to get so that I can successfully keep an RBTA in my aquarium? I was looking at 21LEDUSA's 30" 50/50 Reefbar but I'm not sure if that would be sufficient or not as I keep reading that RBTA's prefer more actinic lighting? Aquarium specs: 34 gallon column with dimensions of 30" x 18" x 16".

Ron Reefman
06/02/2017, 10:40 AM
j.falk, almost any led, t5 or MH lighting system should be enough to keep a RBTA in an 16" deep tank, even a Current Orbit 0.5 watt fixture... well, it would be iffy.

I believe the 21leduse Reefbar Pro uses 3 watt leds and it should make more than enough PAR for a RBTA. The question then is, how many will you need to cover the 18" front to back dimension of your tank. My best guess would be two. I'm considering buying 2 of these to add on to my Reef Breeders Photon V2 fixture. Not because I need the extra PAR, but more for ascetic purposes, adding white to the front and blue to the back of the tank.

However, if you are asking about the standard/basic Reefbar strip, it uses much weaker leds (I think 0.3 or 0.5 watts) and I have serious doubts that it will produce enough PAR.

I don't think any of the 16" black box fixtures, or even the 16" high end fixtures will cover your 30" length. But I think a few make 24" fixtures which should work. I know Reef Breeders has a Photon V2 that is 24", but it has a lot of extra features that drive up the price and you may not want them. However, two of the 16" fixtures set over the tank perpendicular to the length of the tank would be WAY more than enough light. The MarsAqua is less than $100 each.

Good luck.

j.falk
06/02/2017, 12:11 PM
Thanks Ron - I appreciate the advice. I was indeed referring to the Reefbar Pro. I forgot to clarify that in my original post. I'm looking for something that will put off enough light to meet the requirements to care for the RBTA but also something that doesn't generate a lot of heat since the aquarium will be located in my small home office room. I'd been considering the MarsAqua lights for quite awhile now until I read up on the Reefbars and how they don't use/need fans...so I'm assuming they run cooler than other LED fixtures.

Ron Reefman
06/02/2017, 04:02 PM
Thanks Ron - I appreciate the advice. I was indeed referring to the Reefbar Pro. I forgot to clarify that in my original post. I'm looking for something that will put off enough light to meet the requirements to care for the RBTA but also something that doesn't generate a lot of heat since the aquarium will be located in my small home office room. I'd been considering the MarsAqua lights for quite awhile now until I read up on the Reefbars and how they don't use/need fans...so I'm assuming they run cooler than other LED fixtures.

Many led fixtures (especially newer ones) have fans, but only need or use them when the fixture is run close to full power. My Reef Breeders Photon V2 has 88 leds and half are 3 watts and the other half are 5 watts and I run my white channel at 40% and two blue channels at 90% and the 4 fans never turn on. If I switch to the 'SUNNY' mode which is 100% on all 6 channels the fans kick on after a few minutes.

The back side of the Reefbar Pro led strip is really a heat sink and it does get warm but not hot.

j.falk
06/02/2017, 07:04 PM
Many led fixtures (especially newer ones) have fans, but only need or use them when the fixture is run close to full power. My Reef Breeders Photon V2 has 88 leds and half are 3 watts and the other half are 5 watts and I run my white channel at 40% and two blue channels at 90% and the 4 fans never turn on. If I switch to the 'SUNNY' mode which is 100% on all 6 channels the fans kick on after a few minutes.

The back side of the Reefbar Pro led strip is really a heat sink and it does get warm but not hot.

Ah okay. That makes sense. I thought the fans were there because all of them ran hot no matter what percentage they were set at. Thank you for clarifying that. It really helps me understand how these lights work now. Much appreciated!

Ron Reefman
06/03/2017, 12:24 AM
I have a new fixture from ReeFi-Lab and a beta test fixture from another company that both have fans that you can control the temperature the fans turn on at low speed, and an upper temp that the fans will run at full speed. One fixture the single fan barely runs and the other fixture the fans have never turned on as temps never even get close to the minimum.

Thornbreaker
06/14/2017, 12:40 PM
If I'm building a 5' long by 2' wide 2' tall tank, most of these "black box" fixtures like the Mars Aqua suggest a 2'x2' footprint. Would I need 2 or 3 fixtures to ensure adequate lighting (assuming I eventually get a few corals)?

Ron Reefman
06/15/2017, 04:18 AM
If I'm building a 5' long by 2' wide 2' tall tank, most of these "black box" fixtures like the Mars Aqua suggest a 2'x2' footprint. Would I need 2 or 3 fixtures to ensure adequate lighting (assuming I eventually get a few corals)?

If you do corals that need a bit less light, zoas, softies, mushrooms, and can hang them a bit higher off the water (12" to 18"), 2 of the 16" fixtures will be fine.

If you are considering sps corals or an anemone or a clam that like more light, then 3 is the answer and you can mount them at any height off the water.

If you look around you may find a 4' fixture (Reef Breeders Photon and Aquasanrise, EverGrow and maybe others) 1 fixture will do. I have a 5'x2'x20" tank and I use a 50" Reef Breeder Photon V2. They aren't cheap, but for all the features you get (assuming you'd want them) it's a good deal. Other brands with the same features cost considerably more.

Also several brands offer 24" fixtures and you'd only need 2 of those.

ReeFi-Lab offers a pendant with an adjustable glass lens and each one can cover from a 2'x2' to a 3'x3' square. So 2 of them would work as well. And like the high end fixtures, they are fully controllable and like the Reef Breeders, reasonably priced. I have one over my frag tank for a couple of months now and it seems to be better than the Ocean Revive I had there before... but it could just be better water parameters...

DIYReeferNewb
06/15/2017, 07:59 PM
I'm planning on building a 10gal reef tank with a 10 gal sump. The problem is im new to all of this and I'm on a budget so most of it will be diy. After some research ive found the lighting setup I would like to build and was hoping to get some input as to wether or not you guys think it will work. I plan to do mostly lps with some hardier sps. Here is the parts I plan to purchase

http://www.stevesleds.com/view_cart.asp

DIYReeferNewb
06/16/2017, 12:46 AM
So it was brought to my attention that no one can view the cart. Sorry about that, basically its 3 royal blues 2 cayans and 2 5k neutral whites. All 3watt 1000ma with a dimmable driver, power supply and hd heatsink.

Ron Reefman
06/16/2017, 04:06 AM
So it was brought to my attention that no one can view the cart. Sorry about that, basically its 3 royal blues 2 cayans and 2 5k neutral whites. All 3watt 1000ma with a dimmable driver, power supply and hd heatsink.

I've been using leds fixtures for 5 or 6 years now and I've never built one. If you don't mind my asking, when you are all done with the light and buying all the parts you'll need, how much money will you have in it?

Thornbreaker
06/16/2017, 08:18 AM
Thanks for the info Ron. I'll look into some of the other options you mentioned. I can always start with two and add a 3rd or upgrade when I get to corals.

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DIYReeferNewb
06/16/2017, 07:51 PM
60 without shipping 75 with, but the driver, heat sink, and power supply should be able to support 2 more rows of 7 in case I decide to go with a little larger of a tank and for 7 leds its about 20. Want to have the option to customize my lighting system and keep it pretty cheap.

Ron Reefman
06/17/2017, 05:32 AM
At $75 you are so close to the sub $100 Mars Aqua fixture that has 55 leds, is 120 watts , has 2 channels of color control, manual dimmers and a decent looking case. Why build? Unless the DIY thing is what you really want to do? The Mars Aqua could work over much bigger tanks if you ever up grade and it would have resale value if you decided to get out of the hobby (a LOT of people do... I'm just say'n).

Good luck and have fun.

Pdisner
06/17/2017, 08:00 AM
I'm not that familiar with AI fixtures. Does yours have fans? Do the run... ever? If you have fans, and they run, you shouldn't have heat issues. Have you ever vacuumed or blown out the inside of the fixture through the vent holes? It's unlikely, but it could be clogged with dust?



IMHO, if you are having a heat issue with your leds, you need to have a conversation with AI... or is it Eco Tech now? I'd give their customer service a call ASAP.



They're out of warranty. I have to send them in for out of warranty repair. I was in the hospital for a very long time. Two of my AI Hydra 52 and my Apex shorted out and / or shutting off because of heat? Idk. Just seems like for 250+ a piece you would think that one would get more than just a couple years out of them.


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Ron Reefman
06/17/2017, 03:55 PM
They're out of warranty. I have to send them in for out of warranty repair. I was in the hospital for a very long time. Two of my AI Hydra 52 and my Apex shorted out and / or shutting off because of heat? Idk. Just seems like for 250+ a piece you would think that one would get more than just a couple years out of them.

I think most people led fixtures do work more than a couple of years!

I have black box leds made in China back in Dec of 2012 and they still work fine. The cases are a bit rusty because they switched to aluminum long after I bought. But they still work.

Thornbreaker
06/19/2017, 11:56 AM
If you do corals that need a bit less light, zoas, softies, mushrooms, and can hang them a bit higher off the water (12" to 18"), 2 of the 16" fixtures will be fine.

If you are considering sps corals or an anemone or a clam that like more light, then 3 is the answer and you can mount them at any height off the water.

If you look around you may find a 4' fixture (Reef Breeders Photon and Aquasanrise, EverGrow and maybe others) 1 fixture will do. I have a 5'x2'x20" tank and I use a 50" Reef Breeder Photon V2. They aren't cheap, but for all the features you get (assuming you'd want them) it's a good deal. Other brands with the same features cost considerably more.

Also several brands offer 24" fixtures and you'd only need 2 of those.

ReeFi-Lab offers a pendant with an adjustable glass lens and each one can cover from a 2'x2' to a 3'x3' square. So 2 of them would work as well. And like the high end fixtures, they are fully controllable and like the Reef Breeders, reasonably priced. I have one over my frag tank for a couple of months now and it seems to be better than the Ocean Revive I had there before... but it could just be better water parameters...

Hey Ron, follow up questions. It looks like Mars Aqua has a 300 Watt that does a 3'x2' spread. Think 1 of those and 1, 165 Watt would handle a 5' tank? Getting one of each saves about 50 to 60 bucks compared to 3, 165 Watt.

I'll be hanging these from a 10' ceiling, do you or anyone else have any recommendations on what hanging kit to use? (Since I'll need about 3.5' to 4' of length, I imagine this is longer than Mars Aqua's hanging kit provides).