PDA

View Full Version : Cracked Skimmer


jrp1588
02/06/2016, 05:42 PM
I bought an Aquamaxx ConeS CO2 a while back during Marine Depot's black friday sale in preparation for my 125gal build. I finally opened the box for the first time today to assemble it in my sump to layout the baffles, and my heart dropped when I saw this huge crack running down the side.

I'm out of Marine Depot's 60 day return period (I emailed them anyway just in case.) If they won't help me, I'll try Aquamaxx. If they won't help me, is it fixable?

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab343/jrp1588/20160206_171100_zpsts99de36.jpg (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/jrp1588/media/20160206_171100_zpsts99de36.jpg.html)
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab343/jrp1588/20160206_171049_zpsnj6a9emi.jpg (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/jrp1588/media/20160206_171049_zpsnj6a9emi.jpg.html)
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab343/jrp1588/20160206_171211_zpsibmeirho.jpg (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/jrp1588/media/20160206_171211_zpsibmeirho.jpg.html)

Sk8r
02/06/2016, 05:45 PM
Y'know, you might try that five second UV bonding glue now making it onto the market. You put just a thin coat on, shine the provided light on it, and it makes a bond. Most of us are familiar with this at the dentist's office, where they cause an instant set of filling medium.

Cabo2008
02/06/2016, 05:48 PM
It's fixable, might not be pretty, but if you get some acrylic "welder" glue, it should be functional.

BlackTip
02/06/2016, 06:05 PM
The manufacturer should take care of it, if the retailer doesn't.

My RO skimmer was cracked in similar way and CoralVu sent me replacement.

jrp1588
02/06/2016, 06:11 PM
It's fixable, might not be pretty, but if you get some acrylic "welder" glue, it should be functional.

Well, it certainly doesn't need to be pretty. I was hoping some acrylic glue would be able to fix it, but I've never worked with it before. I'm not going to touch it until the other 2 options are exhausted though.

chilli_reef
02/06/2016, 06:32 PM
If you decide to tackle it, use weld on #4 or another very thin version of weld on by IPS. It will flow into the crack like a candle wick sucking up oil. Good stuff ! I would flow it in the crack and run some painters tape around it in several spots to help secure a tight bond. Let it sit for 24 hours and check for leaks.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 09:35 AM
Well Marine depot wouldn't replace it for me, not that I blame them after so long. The customer service person did contact Aquamaxx for me though, and they offered me a replacement body at a discount. It would be $99 vs $160.

For $100, I'm going to try repairing it. I think it'll be fine since the crack lines up perfectly the whole way with no missing pieces. Plus it's not like a skimmer body is under a bunch of water pressure or anything. If that fails, I guess I'll get the new body.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 09:38 AM
Also, do hardware stores like Lowes or Home Depot tend to carry weld-on in stock? Can't say I've ever looked before.

wildman926
02/10/2016, 10:47 AM
Why chance your build over a $100? You have spent that many times over. I would just bit the bullet, and get the body at a discount while they are offering it. If you wait any longer and "try" your fix, they may change their minds.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 10:52 AM
Why chance your build over a $100? You have spent that many times over. I would just bit the bullet, and get the body at a discount while they are offering it. If you wait any longer and "try" your fix, they may change their minds.

He said to go ahead and attempt the repair, and that the offer will be open for the next few weeks. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. The way the crack is, I'm betting it would still function even without a repair, it would just leak.

Once it's set, I'll run it for a couple days and beat it around a little to see how durable the bond is. If it fails inspection, I won't hesitate to order the new body.

sixpackgarage
02/10/2016, 10:52 AM
contact the mfg. directly and ask to speak with someone in charge, and be nice. I did that with eshopps over a few issues I've had over the past year and in each case, they sent new parts to me free of charge.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 11:20 AM
contact the mfg. directly and ask to speak with someone in charge, and be nice. I did that with eshopps over a few issues I've had over the past year and in each case, they sent new parts to me free of charge.

No dice there. They said since it was damaged in shipping, it's between me, the retailer, and UPS. Unfortunately UPS is off the hook since you have to make a claim within a week or receiving the package.

wildman926
02/10/2016, 11:46 AM
Your problem making this work will be the white ring, at the top of the neck. The collection cup uses pressure to seal against that red ring with ramped tangs. That pressure will break open your fix. If it does not do it right away, it will eventually down the road when you are taking the cup off for whatever reason. Again, why chance it?

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 11:49 AM
Your problem making this work will be the white ring, at the top of the neck. The collection cup uses pressure to seal against that red ring with ramped tangs. That pressure will break open your fix. If it does not do it right away, it will eventually down the road when you are taking the cup off for whatever reason. Again, why chance it?

I can certainly see that being an issue. I wonder what the white ring is made out of. Would it be acrylic as well? From what I understand of acrylic solvents, doesn't it essentially weld the pieces together as strong as if they were one in the first place?

wildman926
02/10/2016, 12:03 PM
Supposedly, acrylic solvents/welds chemically fuses the two parts together.

There is a reason why the top is a formed one piece.

Question - What if it holds, say 3-4, or 6 months down the road, and it fails? Will they honor it then?

$100 is way cheaper now, then $400 for a new skimmer down the road. You will end up paying $800 for the a skimmer, that is if you have to get a new one. Or, you paid $500 for your current skimmer.

Chalk it up to a rookie shipping mistake, by not checking the package when you got it.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 12:12 PM
Supposedly, acrylic solvents/welds chemically fuses the two parts together.

There is a reason why the top is a formed one piece.

Question - What if it holds, say 3-4, or 6 months down the road, and it fails? Will they honor it then?

$100 is way cheaper now, then $400 for a new skimmer down the road. You will end up paying $800 for the a skimmer, that is if you have to get a new one. Or, you paid $500 for your current skimmer.

Chalk it up to a rookie shipping mistake, by not checking the package when you got it.

The normal cost of the body is $160. I'd only be out $60. Now I suppose they will eventually discontinue the design, then I'd probably be screwed after a failure

wildman926
02/10/2016, 12:28 PM
Good luck with your endeavor...

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 12:34 PM
Good luck with your endeavor...

I'm not real worried. I'll get downright rough with it when I'm testing. I'll screw the cup on way tighter than needed, give it a couple short drops. If it fails the torture test, I'll buy a new body. If it passes, it should be able to handle anything I'll throw at it.

jimmyj7090
02/10/2016, 01:17 PM
If it was just the body itself I think it would be an easy fix with weldon.

In this case it looks like the top (white plastic ring) is also cracked. A lot of skimmers will have the collection cup fit into this collar and the seal requires some compression of an oring. If that is the case, then the collection cup being installed will put constant pressure on the damaged/repaired part, and I would worry that this would lead to failure down the road (and possibly fitting issues once the repair is done if things are not perfectly aligned).

wmo168
02/10/2016, 01:37 PM
Dispute it using Credit Card, the Retailer need to accept return and sent it back to the factory.

This way you will get a new one... why live with a old broke product. Your credit card has protection for 90-180 days.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 02:30 PM
If it was just the body itself I think it would be an easy fix with weldon.

In this case it looks like the top (white plastic ring) is also cracked. A lot of skimmers will have the collection cup fit into this collar and the seal requires some compression of an oring. If that is the case, then the collection cup being installed will put constant pressure on the damaged/repaired part, and I would worry that this would lead to failure down the road (and possibly fitting issues once the repair is done if things are not perfectly aligned).

That break is long enough on the rim, and extends out enough that I bet if I had to, I could drill a hole through it and clamp the break together with a small nut and bolt if it rebroke on me. My confidence in the job is certainly shaking though. I've already ordered the solvent though, so I've got to at least try.

Bono
02/10/2016, 02:31 PM
Although you might be planning to keep it for a long time the resale on a repaired skimmer body will be drastically less then one in good condition.

wildman926
02/10/2016, 02:37 PM
That break is long enough on the rim, and extends out enough that I bet if I had to, I could drill a hole through it and clamp the break together with a small nut and bolt if it rebroke on me. My confidence in the job is certainly shaking though. I've already ordered the solvent though, so I've got to at least try.

You are trying to talk yourself into not buying the body...I just don't understand it. As your tank moves along, the last thing you need to worry about is something that is self induced...i.e. this issue.

Plastic, acrylic, etc., does not like a lot of force rendered to it. Heck, you have to be careful screwing the cup on without breaking the ramped tabs. Are you going to break them on the collection cup too while testing?

Pay now, or pay more later...... this is actually a no brainer. You are making it harder on yourself than it has to be.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 02:44 PM
You are trying to talk yourself into not buying the body...I just don't understand it. As your tank moves along, the last thing you need to worry about is something that is self induced...i.e. this issue.

Plastic, acrylic, etc., does not like a lot of force rendered to it. Heck, you have to be careful screwing the cup on without breaking the ramped tabs. Are you going to break them on the collection cup too while testing?

Pay now, or pay more later...... this is actually a no brainer. You are making it harder on yourself than it has to be.

Well, it's more like pay now, or maybe not pay at all. Money is an object to me, and all of my equipment has been gotten at a bargain. Maybe you can afford to throw out $100 without blinking, but I cannot. I can afford it, yes, but I'd rather not have to if it can be fixed. If it can't, or I'm less than confident in the results of my repair, I'll order the new body.

Worst case scenario, I'll miss out on the discounted body and have a down skimmer for a few days.

jimmyj7090
02/10/2016, 03:14 PM
FWIW if you are planning on trying to repair -

You said you ordered the solvent, which did you order? (weldon #4 or #16).

wildman926
02/10/2016, 03:14 PM
Money is an object to me, and all of my equipment has been gotten at a bargain. Maybe you can afford to throw out $100 without blinking, but I cannot. I can afford it, yes, but I'd rather not have to if it can be fixed.

It is not about that....just trying to save you some grief down the road. But, you don't see it that way.

Next, you have a post, or thread, where you had to buy the body, and you lost some corals. What good the skimmer was doing to keep excess nutrients out of your system, will be non existent for a few days, or at least a week. You will then have lost some prized first possession corals. It does not take long for a young tank to get out of control. See it all of the time here on RC.

See where I am going?

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 03:27 PM
It is not about that....just trying to save you some grief down the road. But, you don't see it that way.

Next, you have a post, or thread, where you had to buy the body, and you lost some corals. What good the skimmer was doing to keep excess nutrients out of your system, will be non existent for a few days, or at least a week. You will then have lost some prized first possession corals. It does not take long for a young tank to get out of control. See it all of the time here on RC.

See where I am going?

I've been at this a while, and in my experience, people exaggerate how quickly things go to pot. You always see the Tunze fans bashing on Jebao products like the fish will all go belly up and the corals will instantly melt if one of their powerheads were to fail. On my old 75gal, I had a skimmer down for a week because of a busted impeller. I did an extra water change and went on my merry way. I plan on running a turf scrubber anyway, so that would likely pick up the slack.

As for it being a young tank, it's an upgrade from a year and a half old tank with fully established rock, and the new rock has been cooking in the garage for the better part of 2 months. Stock will be very gradually increased.

In reply to Jimmyj's question, I order #4 based on an earlier recommendation in the thread.

wildman926
02/10/2016, 03:32 PM
Sounds good. Keep us posted. :thumbsup:

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 03:42 PM
Sounds good. Keep us posted. :thumbsup:

I'll definitely post the results either way. And if it fails down the road resulting in catastrophic runaway disaster, I'll for sure share that too. Hopefully if it's going to break on me though, it'll be while I'm trying to break it.

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 06:27 PM
Well the whole argument is now moot. I just noticed there is a small chip missing from the point of impact. I'm don't think I could reliably fill that, plus the break at the top is right on one of the wedge things for the collection cup. I could definitely see that being an issue.

I'll get the new body. I might go ahead and try to repair the broken one for fun since I already have the solvent coming. Keep it as a spare or something.

jimmyj7090
02/10/2016, 06:31 PM
Did you order the needle applicator with the WO#4? You'll need it.

For the actual repair, you want to have a decent understanding of how the solvent works. It's not a glue, and will not fill in gaps at all. Just as the name "solvent" implies, the WO #4 actually melts the acrylic, then if done right, the solvent evaporates and the two pieces of acrylic are left melted into one continuous piece.

This sounds simple, but it can get a little more complicated. the edges of the crack need to be aligned and touching each other with no gaps, chips or other issues affecting how they fit together. Ideally there will be slight pressure pushing the edges together, but not more than slight pressure. You want the pieces snug against each other, but not jammed together.

If the pieces are too tight, the solvent won't penetrate the seam/crack properly and you'll be left with a weak, ugly seam that may even leak. If the pieces are too loose the WO may even dissolve some of the material on either side leaving a gap instead of a seam where the crack was.

Last, someone suggested using some sort of tape to hold this together while you do the repair (I assume this would be to get that slight pressure pushing the pieces together). That could work, but if the WO touches the tape, the WO will want to run along the edges of the tape which will leave some ugly, nasty scarring where e tape was. I would suggest finding another way of stabilizing the material before trying the repair, possibly carpentry clamps very gently applied from the sides (just snug enough to hold the edges together, but not so snug that the skimmer body starts to bend or distort at all.)

To use theWO 4, get the crack supported and stable, then suck some WO into the applicator, then place the tip of the applicator at the highest point on the crack, and gently squeeze the applicator to ease the WO into the crack. You will see the water like solvent wick into, and then run down the crack (the crack will go from hazy to almost perfectly clear/wet. Apply enough so that you see it ooze slightly from the crack, but not running or dripping out. Then leave it %100 alone overnight to ensure the solvent process is done. Don't try to test it or unclamp after 15 min, if you do it will look good until you test with a bit of pressure - then the repair will fail in your hands and then be 10x harder to fix from there.

You would be wise to acquire some small acrylic scraps to play with first. It's not hard to start to get the feel for this with a Bit of practice, but it's pretty unforgiving if you have no practice / feel for it.

jimmyj7090
02/10/2016, 06:33 PM
Well the whole argument is now moot. I just noticed there is a small chip missing from the point of impact. I'm don't think I could reliably fill that, plus the break at the top is right on one of the wedge things for the collection cup. I could definitely see that being an issue.

I'll get the new body. I might go ahead and try to repair the broken one for fun since I already have the solvent coming. Keep it as a spare or something.

Aww man. I just wrote all of that last post while you were typing.

Oh well, at least you'll sleep sound with the new body :)

jrp1588
02/10/2016, 07:36 PM
Aww man. I just wrote all of that last post while you were typing.

Oh well, at least you'll sleep sound with the new body :)

Haha, I appreciate the effort. Very informative. As I said, I'm going to try the fix anyway for fun. I'll be using your tips. I'll have to improvise something for the small chip. Maybe a dab of caulk?

moondoggy4
02/10/2016, 09:08 PM
Whatever you buy and don't check will be busted,or what you buy the farthest from your house will go bad. I had all 6 T-5 bulbs from MD busted I bought them for a build and did not check them until 3 days after the shipping warranty expired, they did say that I could buy the bulbs at wholesale.

So I do know how to feel, it sucks, now I check everything when it comes in. Good luck

jrp1588
02/14/2016, 02:13 PM
Well I still plan to order the new body, but me repair was actually successful. VERY easy to do by the way. I applied a bit with the supplied syringe at the very top of the crack, and it flowed down almost the whole thing. Luckily the body was still holding its shape, so there was no need for any clamping or anything. I left it to sit for an hour or so, and it was already set. The next day I screwed the cup on way tighter than need be several times, then left it that way overnight. I also knocked it around a bit like I would if I was cleaning it after a bad day at work.

I filled the small missing chip I mentioned by taking some shavings from a scrap piece of acrylic and dissolving them in the solvent. This created a paste of sorts that I applied with a knife. It's water tight, and is currently breaking in with some vinegar and water.

I'm going to see how much life I can get out of this thing. Now that I have this entire can of solvent and a bit of experience, I want to build some stuff like all the cool kid reefers do.

jrp1588
03/05/2016, 11:42 PM
Finally got the tank running! The repaired skimmer is currently operational. It broke in overnight, and has been producing beautiful foam all day long. It's already leaps and bounds better than the SWC cone skimmer I had on my old 75gal. It is a bit louder than I'd like though. Not distractingly so, but you can definitely hear it from a few feet away churning up those bubbles.