75g AIO, input wanted.

[Helikritz]

Hey everyone, I am looking to pick some brains and open to any and all suggestions. I want an AIO tank, so please don try to talk me out of it. I do not want water leaving the tank thru an overflow going to a sump under the tank in the stand. I like the idea of using smaller pumps and having less head loss.

This is not my first SW aquarium, I do have some experience (55g reef w/10g sump), however this is my first is my first attempt to construct an AIO aquarium. As much as I wanted a IM Nuvo 40 I just couldn't see spending 350 for a 40g tank. I know I would be upset with myself if I went with something that small right away.

The plan is to use a regular 75g tank and would like to create 2 chambers in the rear corners to act as a sump and a refuge. Each chamber would have its own small low wattage return pump. They would be constructed of glass (thickness undetermined, 1/4"?)

I would like it to be a mixed reef with fish.

Return pump sizes ? should they both be the same, or the one in the refuge a little smaller? I was thinking something between 200-300 gph each.

Skimmer - Tunze 9004? suitable?

I have attached a jpg of the first go around of the baffle and chamber design/layout. I do not have the tank yet so these dimensions are not exact and can and will be adjusted accordingly. I have labels on the chambers for what I was thinking should/would go in there.

I do not plan on getting the glass cut until I have all components to ensure that everything fits in the chambers.

Please, I would like to know if I have this right, or what I might need to change. I know I still have a lot to learn about this hobby and open to any and all suggestions.

Thank you,
Kevin
(Helikritz)

[Bagabaga]

Why would it be split? I get separating the areas but it seems you would get more benefit from having the entire back area for larger equipment and more space for refugium. A standard 75 is 48x18x21 and would severely impact the depth of the tank if you ran something 4 inches wide wouldn't it? You could also consider making the aio from one side, like taking away 10 inches from the length instead of the width and have a wide space for media and skimmer and maybe do a hang on refugium or a chamber for just refugium. I hope my speculation hasn't caused more stress than help.

[Helikritz]

I appreciate any and all comments and ideas. thank you!

I split it to try to keep the full 18" (front to back) depth as much as possible for the aqua-scape. I had considered putting it on one end of the tank but i thought that having a larger surface skimming design the better it would be and i was trying to keep the full 48" tank for the fish to use, plus i thought it would look goofy in a stand/canopy.

I would like to try to keep these chambers as small as possible. They do not need to be the size either. I would like to leave as much room in the display tank as possible.

[IanWR]

Why not just use a tunze reefpack 250? You get skimming, surface skimming, media chambers, room for heater an ato. No futzing with glass, silicone, buying pumps, bulkheads, tubing, etc. It may be a push as far as cost, and if your time is worth anything you'll be far ahead just buying it.

[Bagabaga]

Or even go with a hang on the back refugium, I understand space saving was the issue and an external refugium/skimmer box would provide the full display to the reef. You could even have one custom made by a company or build one to your exact specifications yourself. There would be virtually no head loss so you could run a dc pump at full speed and split it so it can provide all your flow.

[Helikritz]

That was the first time i saw that Tunze Reefpak. Not sure about it as it doesn't have a refugium. Looking into it more tho.

I have reworked the concept. Now the chambers are completely separate. Not sure if this concept will work. Thoughts?

[Helikritz]

As for the hob refugium, i looked into them but would like to keep the tank footprint as small as possible (keep against wall). But i do like the design of them, ans that is what I'm trying to replicate, but would like the pump in the chamber, not the tank.

[RocketEngineer]

Your refugium volume is not large enough to be practical. If you are totally against drilling the tank and it must be against the wall, I would consider an in tank skimmer over what you have designed there.

I use a Tunze 9004 in my 40B at work. Like you, I didn't want any water outside the perimeter of the glass. However, the 9004 doesn't need an overflow box as it already incorporates a surface skimmer to remove the oil slick from the water surface just like an overflow would.

K.I.S.S. If you don't need the boxes, why have them? A simple in-tank skimmer and regular water changes should be good. Just don't push the stocking beyond what the system can handle.

[Helikritz]

Is there a calculation to figure out and determine the size of a refugium?

The chamber is there to also hide the heater and possibly an ATO, and i see people using media racks. I was trying to basically replicate my old tank (55g w/10g sump), but all within the glass of a 75g, sort of like the IM Nuvo Fusion Tanks. But while trying to keep the 18" front to back as much as possible.

[RocketEngineer]

The lower limit for effectiveness on a refugium is about 10% of the volume of the display. There isn't any hard evidence, its all anecdote. However, given the small size you designed vsthe display volume I don't see what you have there as doing a whole lot.

I hide the heater in my display behind my rock work and the black cord blends into the black background. You don't need a place for ATO, you're display level will change and that's what the switch will sense.

As for the media racks, that's more a FW thing. Frequent water changes can fix a multitude of problems a chemical media may be hiding.

HTH,

[Helikritz]

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!

OK, So i need to increase the size of that area.

Is it OK to put the skimmer in there and possibly eliminate the chamber on the other side? Or possibly have 2 refugiums, (one each side) and have the skimmer in one and the heater in the other?

I have attached a picture, is the volume of the refugium calculated as the red circle or the green?

Refugiums have a sand bed and algae? or is it one or the other? which is better? I see a lot of people use cheato?

Sorry for so many questions, I don't really have experience with refugiums as my last aquarium's sump housed the skimmer, heater, bio-balls, and what ever live rock did not go into the display.


Ill have to revise the model later at home as we have not upgraded to SW2016 here.

[RocketEngineer]

You're asking the wrong questions. The real question is: What is the point of the refugium? There are 3 options: 1) Macro-algae growing for nutrient export, 2) Pod production for food, or 3) deep sand bed to remove nitrates. In my opinion, you should pick one and design to that purpose and ignore the others. Trying to do more than one often just leads to a mess.

In order to get a decent volume for the refugium, the red area needs to be 4.5" X 20" X 20" which means it will take up almost half the back of the tank in order to be effective. Personally, I would rather use that volume of my display for corals and LR for the fish.

The Tunze 9004 you've chosen doesn't need to be in a box, neither does the heater.

I think you are overcomplicating the tank. You don't need the space in the back of the tank for the skimmer or heater so why go through the added effort if it doesn't gain you anything.

[Bagabaga]

K.i.s.s. Was the perfect and best explanation.

[Helikritz]

Ya know i wasnt going to say anything but now its irritaing..... Calling someone "Stupid" is the best explination? Sorry for asking questions. I was hoping to get ahead by asking questions, learn from ones who are more experienced and have more "REEF" knowledge, but i guess I'll go back and hit the books. Id rather read and take my time than get called stupid....:reading: