Lionfish keep dying?

[UBOMW]

I recently started up my fourth salt water tank, and have never had an issue like this before.

I started this tank in December. 120 gallon with 55 gallon sump. About 80 lbs of live rock in the DT, about 30 lbs live rock rubble in the sump.

I cycled the tank, and am confident there. I test water parameters twice a week and do weekly water changes of about 15 gallons.

First fish in was a volatile lionfish. Died within 24 hours. Assumed it was an acclimation issue.

Next added a powder brown tang. Drip acclimation. Tang is doing great. Have added lots of CUC since, including snails of various types, hermit crabs and an urchin. All doing well.

Added a spot fin lionfish on Friday. Drip acclimated. Seemed fine Friday, but more or less hung out in a bit of a cave. Fairly normal I think. Was moving around the tank a bit Saturday. Died Sunday afternoon.

Everything else in the tank is doing fine.

Any ideas?

[UBOMW]

*volatin (autocorrect)

[scooter31707]

Lionfish are very sensitive to any water parameter change. Are you quarantining or just sticking straight into the DT? Are you getting them from the same source (like a LFS or online vendor)? If you are getting them shipped, don't acclimate them, it's better to match the parameters to the vendor. Once you open the bag, ph and ammonia changes to toxic level while acclimating.

[UBOMW]

They both came from the same local fish store, which is usually very high quality. In both cases I know the fish were at the LFS for at least 10 days, and witnessed them eating at the LFS prior to purchasing them. Transport from LFS to tank was less than 1 hour.

Perhaps the acclimation process was still too fast for lionfish? General procedure (for the second one) was:
-open bag and place in sump to bring to tank temp (approx 10 minutes)
-remove 1/2 of the shipping water
-start drip from DT until bag is back to about the same amount of water (approx. 1/2 hour)
-remove 1/2 of bag water
-drip again until bag is back to original level (1/2 hour)
-net fish and add to DT

[Shaummy]

They both came from the same local fish store, which is usually very high quality. In both cases I know the fish were at the LFS for at least 10 days, and witnessed them eating at the LFS prior to purchasing them. Transport from LFS to tank was less than 1 hour.

Perhaps the acclimation process was still too fast for lionfish? General procedure (for the second one) was:
-open bag and place in sump to bring to tank temp (approx 10 minutes)
-remove 1/2 of the shipping water
-start drip from DT until bag is back to about the same amount of water (approx. 1/2 hour)
-remove 1/2 of bag water
-drip again until bag is back to original level (1/2 hour)
-net fish and add to DT

Sounds like a decent process. What was the salinity difference between your tank and the LFS when you started? Many LFS keep their fish holding tanks pretty low.

[UBOMW]

Salinity was very similar, he keeps his at 1.023 (I confirmed with a refractometer) and mine is 1.024.

Would really like to figure out what's going on. I want to develop a lionfish / soft coral tank.

[A.Astore]

Considering the water is so close I don't know that you would even need that long of an acclimation. You are only moving .001 so most fish would not even show much notice without any acclimation. I am not necessarily saying completely ditch the acclimation because there is an increase which is harder on the fish in general but I don't know that you need as long of one due to the very minimal difference. I don't acclimate at all because I put my shipped fish in a QT which is matched to their water as far as salinity so I would think that small difference in salinity could easily be covered in 20 minutes rather than an hour. If you do want to still drip for that length of time maybe add a conditioner to the water to ensure the ammonia doesn't quickly build as soon as you open the bag.

[homer1475]

The 10 minute temp acclimation should be done while the bag is still closed. The second you open the bag ammonia starts to rise(there is a whole chemistry lesson going on here, but I forget the exact reasoning). So for the intial 10 minutes the fish is more then likely swimming in high ammonia water.

[UBOMW]

Homer, I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, this is a genuine question, do you really feel that could be the cause of the two fish dying? With only approx. 1 hour in the bag? Could the ammonia build up in that short of a time span where it would cause the fish that much stress?

[dweber618]

Homer, I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, this is a genuine question, do you really feel that could be the cause of the two fish dying? With only approx. 1 hour in the bag? Could the ammonia build up in that short of a time span where it would cause the fish that much stress?

Typically what I've seen is posted on the forums is that the ammonia issue build up is for shipped fish that have been bagged for several hours. I don't see how that could be possible after an hour long car ride.

Your acclimation technique sounds fine to me. As to why your they aren't surviving, I've got nothing...sorry :(

[Dkuhlmann]

The ammonia actually can build up to dangerous levels in as soon as 30-45 minutes. For this reason I always put a cap full of Prime or Amquel into the bag, then do my acclimation.

[UBOMW]

I suppose it makes sense that carnivores may produce more ammonia than herbivores. May explain why I've never run into this issue before.

I'll try some cycle with the next one. Hope it works. Thanks for the feedback all.