Cause of Death

[Irishman360]

Set up one of my 10 gallon tanks last night to heat up to start my TTM on the fish I have in my DT. Started off this morning with 3 chromis and added 8 red stripe trochus into the mix, since my snails are breeding and we would like to some in the permanent QT where the fish are going after the TTM. Been checking them through out the day and they are of course stressed and breathing real fast, just checked on them again and found one dead, probably from a heart attack. Checking parameters now but figured nothing would change in 12 hrs. Ammonia is 0 same as nitrate and nitrite.

In the TTM tanks I am only running an air stone and heater with a PVC elbow in it for hiding. Is this set up sufficient? Can someone give me insight on this of what I should change or am doing anything wrong.

[Lunchbox360]

Ive had horror stories and ive had horrible luck with QT tanks and ive heard nothing but horror stories with QT tanks

[Irishman360]

Ive had horror stories and ive had horrible luck with QT tanks and ive heard nothing but horror stories with QT tanks

It's the TTM tanks I'm worried about. The QT tank has been cycled and is ready for fish.

[Lunchbox360]

http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/write-up-wednesday-tank-transfer-method-for-disease-control/


Your fish died off stress maybe the TTM method sounds like too much work and too much stress..but i cannot speak from experience i just found that article hope that helps

[kmbyrnes]

A 10 g can heat heat up pretty fast. What was the temp ?
You might also want some sort of flow. I use an HOB filter with floss when doing TTM. This helps move the aerated water around the tank.
Don't give up on TTM. IMO it is less stressful than the alternatives for ich prevention, for both fish and human.

[scooter31707]

Yes, that is how I setup my tank transfer tanks just like you. Now I have 2 different size air pumps depending how many and what size fish I have. In your case, did all the fish come from the same vendor or LFS? Some fish don't ship well if you got them from an online vendor. They could have been sick with some other disease. Chromis can come in with other stuff. Remember the TTM is only for Ich, not any other illness.

[scooter31707]

Forgot to mention, you may want to use an ammonia badge and I use Prime on the 2nd day.

[Irishman360]

The temp on the tank is 76 degrees.

The fish came from my DT, they were in there for two months then I had a small ich case, no other disease has been in my tank from what I can see how the fish are acting and eating. I started with chromis since they were the least expensive fish. I plan on using prime on day two. Although it might no be a big deal now since I'm down to one fish. What are people opinions on the snails being in there for TTM?

[rBlair]

I was having a terrible time with TTM and lost several fish during. I think I found what was my problem. I use rubbermaid tubs with 10 gal of water, a small heater and an air stone. I had one that was looking bad so I started reading posts here and in one post I read that this particular fish needed a higher level of oxygen, so I added a second air stone. That fish improved and I've had 3 more groups get thru with no problems now.

So maybe add a second or larger air stone

[Irishman360]

Did you use 2 air stones for all the fish? What kind of fish was it?

[Sk8r]

CHromis without sufficient hiding places are prone to murder one of the number until they reach a number they think sufficient for the space and sleeping spots. This usually happens at night, often with no conspicuous wounds.

[gone fishin]

CHromis without sufficient hiding places are prone to murder one of the number until they reach a number they think sufficient for the space and sleeping spots. This usually happens at night, often with no conspicuous wounds.

I agree with Sk8r.

FWIW my TT tanks are set up very similar to the OP's. A heater, air stone, pvc and ammonia badge.

[Irishman360]

So should I add more hiding spaces? I have three left in DT that need TTM should I just do one at a time or pair with other fish? Or would they end up killing the other fish as well?

[Irishman360]

Second fish is dead when I woke up and the third one just died when my wife went to feed it. Now I'm lost

[gone fishin]

Sorry to read that. Since they are chromis I will ask if you saw any red spots or what looked like a sore on them.

[Irishman360]

I didn't see any of that in the TTM tanks or when they were in my DT

[DDon]

Did you match the salinity and temp of the tank transfer tank to the tank they were coming from?

As far as the sanils, there is no reason to put them through tank transfer. They are not carriers of ich so TT can't be used to interrupt the life cycle. Now they could have ich cysts on their shells and any water in/on them could have the ich parasite. I would just leave the snails in the display tank for the 72 day fallow period. It will then be safe to move them over to the qt tank without fear of moving ich over.

[Irishman360]

Salinity and Temp matched the DT so I just moved them from there straight to the tank without acclimating them

[rjjr1963]

http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/write-up-wednesday-tank-transfer-method-for-disease-control/


Your fish died off stress maybe the TTM method sounds like too much work and too much stress..but i cannot speak from experience i just found that article hope that helps


I'm thoroughly confused now. Seems just about everyone says to use the TTM but now this article from Mark. Not sure what to do.

[Irishman360]

I'm thoroughly confused now. Seems just about everyone says to use the TTM but now this article from Mark. Not sure what to do.

I think this is a known with TTM about it causing stress. I think that's how its effective because ich will show up when the fish is stressed and then fall off and that's how TTM is good for it because it leaves the eggs behind. It is interesting about it may causing velvet though.

[RayAllen3422]

I'm thoroughly confused now. Seems just about everyone says to use the TTM but now this article from Mark. Not sure what to do.


There are a lot on false things in this article. TTM does not treat velvet for one. Read the sticky on here about TTM. He even acknowledges on the comments that he needs to revisit his article.

[Marchillo]

This is not a good thread to promote TTM

I did TTM and everything was great. I did use a powerhead for more flow but same basic setup. Plus a nice square colander to move fish rather than netting them reduced stress.

[CStrickland]

I'm thoroughly confused now. Seems just about everyone says to use the TTM but now this article from Mark. Not sure what to do.

Do note that he says he uses copper instead. That's a while nother set of downsides, a lot of people have switched from copper to ttm because it's less hard on fish and easier to get right.

[Irishman360]

This is not a good thread to promote TTM

I did TTM and everything was great. I did use a powerhead for more flow but same basic setup. Plus a nice square colander to move fish rather than netting them reduced stress.

I'm sure this thread could be used by someone who might have the same problem as me for TTM.

[Marchillo]

Well there are a lot of variables.

People say TTM causes stress because of the constant handling and transfers. In your case you has issues almost immediately with a single transfer once in the tank. That says to me that either the fish are beyond sick or a problem with either the setup/contamination/parameters in tanks being different.

All you really did was move a fish from one tank to another tank. Like you bought it from the store and put it in a qt tank. Sure that may be stressful for a fish, but you'd do this with any fish you bought even if you were transferring from a fish store to a display tank unless I'm missing something.

I still recommend more than an airstone for oxygen and flow. I'd rather air on the side of caution than worry there isn't enough oxygen.

[CStrickland]

I still recommend more than an airstone for oxygen and flow. I'd rather air on the side of caution than worry there isn't enough oxygen.

Good one :D

[DDon]

I think this is a known with TTM about it causing stress. I think that's how its effective because ich will show up when the fish is stressed and then fall off and that's how TTM is good for it because it leaves the eggs behind. It is interesting about it may causing velvet though.

Just for clarification to your comment, it is not about causing stress so Ich shows and will fall off, it is about interrupting the lifecycle, whether it is visible or not. You may find it helpful to read the stickies about the lifecycle of Ich.

Sure there is some stress but I don't find it significant. I find they act more stressed with the initial introduction then by the subsequent transfers. I have used it many times and every fish that ends up in my display goes through tank transfer first, even sensitive fish such as leopard wrasses.
It is very effective and for myself find it relatively easy and well worth the effort.

[rjjr1963]

Since I already bought four of everything I'm going to start out with the TTM. It seems to work for many forum members and I'm not crazy about using copper. Should I fill all four tanks at the same time and normalize temperature to limit stress?

[DDon]

Since I already bought four of everything I'm going to start out with the TTM. It seems to work for many forum members and I'm not crazy about using copper. Should I fill all four tanks at the same time and normalize temperature to limit stress?

You really only need 2 of everything with cleaning and drying for 24 hours between uses. Nothing wrong with additional sets though, probably makes it even easier.
No need to set them all up at the same time. I set the next tank up the day before the transfer and make sure to match salinity and temp. Doesnt take long for temp to stabilize, especially if you start with water close to your desired temperature.