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MidwesternTexan
02/28/2016, 03:41 PM
Hello all:

Cut to the chase:

I'm looking for sites:ebay/amazon-
that has the grow lights that are both low $$, and have been tried, and
DO GROW massive amounts on a broken in ATS.

I currently have CFL's with reflectors and want to upgrade to the
red, or mostly red/some blue LED's-

I've seen the big sheets- vs. the larger central LED's with reflectors.

Any help is appreciated.

TIA,
Todd

MidwesternTexan
02/28/2016, 07:01 PM
So, I'm assuming no one who has an ATS, and grow LED's has read this yet?

ca1ore
02/29/2016, 06:04 AM
I use a pair of ReefBreeders Fuge lights and they've worked well; however, they neither meet you requirements for having been bought off ebay/amazon nor were they particularly cheap.

Subsea
02/29/2016, 07:45 AM
Why have you decided that a red led is an upgrade from CFL? Does photosynthesis happen in only one band width of color spectrum?


I use a 23W CFL that is 5000 Kelvin color reduction from Home Depot under the product name "ecoSmart". It is made in China where standards for color spectrum are not regularly reported.

outy
02/29/2016, 09:38 AM
Many of us have recently bought the red/blue grow floodlights ranging from 10w to 50w and most all of us have had success.

Subsea
02/29/2016, 10:23 AM
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-LED-Spotlight-Bulb-TriBand-Spectrum---ONE

This link is a large greenhouse supplier? They developed their own LED grow lights because of dissatisfaction with Chinese manufactures.

With respect to buying cheap, I will give you a quote on my brothers business website,
"Quality is not expensive, it is priceless".

outy
02/29/2016, 02:35 PM
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-LED-Spotlight-Bulb-TriBand-Spectrum---ONE

This link is a large greenhouse supplier? They developed their own LED grow lights because of dissatisfaction with Chinese manufactures.

With respect to buying cheap, I will give you a quote on my brothers business website,
"Quality is not expensive, it is priceless".

Very few people if any have had success with that type bulb.

Generally speaking to dim and not enough power to grow much.

We actually tell people to avoid this bulb for an ATS.

Subsea
02/29/2016, 04:36 PM
Very few people if any have had success with that type bulb.

Generally speaking to dim and not enough power to grow much.

We actually tell people to avoid this bulb for an ATS.

The reason that I included the link is because in the technical discussion section of the website, specific functions of growth are assigned to specific color spectrum.


With respect to ATS, what color spectrum and in what ratio do you recommend.

outy
02/29/2016, 04:38 PM
With respect to ATS, what color spectrum and in what ratio do you recommend.

Red 625-660nm Which are actually Floyds

Subsea
02/29/2016, 04:45 PM
Do you run red led only?

outy
02/29/2016, 04:59 PM
Do you run red led only?

No I have a mix BUT Blue addition has shown no gain over red alone. [per Floyd]

Most red leds however come with x amount of blue leds added to the mix.

oreo57
02/29/2016, 07:23 PM
Look at "full spectrum" (stupid name) 3W chips..
Royal blue diodes w/ a broad spectrum deep red phosphor..

http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1xZt5FVXXXXczaXXXq6xXFXXX8/201828168/HTB1xZt5FVXXXXczaXXXq6xXFXXX8.jpg

outy
03/01/2016, 01:31 PM
Look at "full spectrum" (stupid name) 3W chips..
Royal blue diodes w/ a broad spectrum deep red phosphor..



Does not matter what that chart states.

They are not recommended.


We are growing algae


Algae likes the red the best, and blue has not shown to help



The difference is small but it is there.

oreo57
03/01/2016, 03:42 PM
They are not recommended.



not according to these people:
A 3:1 red: blue LED light combination was found to produce the most daily biomass (178 mg dry algae/liter-day versus 88 in fluorescent) in the 2 liter PBR. The red-blue light also produced the highest lipid content (7g lipids/100 g dry biomass versus 1g/100g for fluorescent).


http://www3.aiche.org/proceedings/Abstract.aspx?PaperID=312780

worse:
This indicated that change in the wavelength of light influenced the growth rate of Tetraselmis sp. and Nannochloropsis sp. during 18 days of cultivation due to chlorophyll ‘a’ which is at a maximum at two points (430 and 662 nm) which influenced the grow of biomass. The blue light wavelength was around 420-450 nm and the red light wavelength was around 660-700 nm. Thus the blue light wavelength tends to be narrower and thus closer to the chlorophyll ‘a’ wavelength requirement. The author suggested that blue light condition was a better medium than red light in cultivation of Tetraselmis sp. and Nannochloropsis sp. Ruyters [22] stated that blue light enhanced in the regulation of activation of enzymes and gene transcription. When cell was damaged by red light, the blue light allows the cell to repair by exposure to low intensity of blue light. The growth rate and biomass production of marine microalgae were related to the type of light wavelength [23]. In addition, Madiha [24] reported the blue LED allows the light intensity to penetration deep into the batch culture thus enhanced the doubling of microalgae and cell density increased faster.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwikwoayyqDLAhUJvoMKHe2_CR0QFgg2MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jurnalteknologi.utm.my%2Findex.php%2Fjurnalteknologi%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F277 1%2F2080&usg=AFQjCNFXimkc_C455bIS4mAKJA8mPTiPWg&sig2=xZRFj2x3HDG9BVW6LIc54Q&cad=rja

Subsea
03/01/2016, 08:09 PM
Oreo,

I read both links in post #14. The first link used a fresh water micro algae. The recommendation was to use a ratio of 3/1 of red to blue. The second link studied two different marine phytoplankton. The testing criteria used only one LED color at a time. Blue was shown to grow more biomass.

From those two links, I see no substantiation that all red is best.

oreo57
03/01/2016, 09:15 PM
Oreo,

I read both links in post #14. The first link used a fresh water micro algae. The recommendation was to use a ratio of 3/1 of red to blue. The second link studied two different marine phytoplankton. The testing criteria used only one LED color at a time. Blue was shown to grow more biomass.

From those two links, I see no substantiation that all red is best.
right, all red is not shown to be best.. my point and why the "full spectrum" (royal blue plus broad spectrum red phosphor) LEd's should work just fine..
Have yet to read any study (i.e controlled) that favored red only for anything photosynthetic, well normal photosynthetic things, not things like photosynthetic bacteria ...
Though a lot of things ARE species specific.. anything is possible..
as a side note the more energetic blue could hinder photosynthesis at large output levels..and as plants go, red is "easier" to capture...;)

outy
03/01/2016, 09:18 PM
right, all red is not shown to be best....

Actually it has been done. Its obvious you have not read the thread above.

that's why I stated my source as Floyd who is the person responsible for helping everyone here, and gives detailed instructions on how to build lights for ATS.

Blue is not needed

oreo57
03/01/2016, 09:24 PM
The difference is small..............
Not a very convincing argument and who is Floyd??
Point is it probably matters little that one uses blue based diodes w/ a broad spectrum red (NOT Blue plus red diodes) and I suspect you will not see any difference and possibly
a benefit. did Floyd TRY "full spectrum" LEd's??

outy
03/01/2016, 09:31 PM
Floyds recommendations

Here is my recommendation for LED lighting of a waterfall algae scrubber screen:

This is for a double-sided screen using Philips Luxeon ES 3W Deep Red 660nm LEDs without lenses (120-140 degree) running at 700mA at 2-3" from the screen to LED

Minimum coverage: One LED on each side of every 8 sq in of screen
Maximum coverage: One LED on each side of every 4 sq in of screen

outy
03/01/2016, 09:35 PM
who is Floyd??


Lets say a founding father of ATS who helps juts about everyone on the topic.


read the 300 pages in the first sticky at the top of this page.


Santa Monica scubbers also has stated verbatim "red is best"


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&page=296

Subsea
03/01/2016, 09:42 PM
Actually it has been done. Its obvious you have not read the thread above.

that's why I stated my source as Floyd who is the person responsible for helping everyone here, and gives detailed instructions on how to build lights for ATS.

Blue is not needed

I read the complete thread. No offense to Floyd, but his name does not equate to scientific peer reviewed papers. In a macro algae refugium, I used a hydroponic fixture with 1:1 ratio of red to blue. I was very happy with it. Does that make it better than a 3:1 ratio of red to blue? Not necessarily, but it was my experience.

I don't use an ATS. For me, the discussion is academic.

oreo57
03/01/2016, 09:44 PM
Even Floyd is a bit wishy washy on this.. From post 6884 in the sticky..

It's actually better growth than I've ever seen out of that form factor of light. I would still say though that the fixture somewhat limits the amount of algae you will be able to grow. Here's my guideline for high power LEDs

Quote:
*** This is current as of 2015-05-15! ***
----------------

Here is my recommendation for LED lighting of a waterfall algae scrubber screen:

This is for a double-sided screen using Philips Luxeon ES 3W Deep Red 660nm LEDs without lenses (120-140 degree) running at 700mA at 2-3" from the screen to LED

Minimum coverage: One LED on each side of every 8 sq in of screen
Maximum coverage: One LED on each side of every 4 sq in of screen

Simple as that. For new screens (bare) if using the "Maximum" level, run at 350mA until mature, or use a diffuser. Might have to do this with the Minimum level also actually, but not typically. The minimum could probably be stretched to a larger area but screen will cure slower and generally have less capacity.

So for a 6x6 screen, which is 36 sq in, /8 = 4.5 per side. Make it 5.
So for a 6x6 screen, which is 36 sq in, /4 = 9 per side.

Supplementing with blue/violet: Always run blues at 350mA, violets can be run higher but should follow the same rule for the maturing stage (350 at first, then increase after maturing). Use one to two at this current level for every 5-6 reds, roughly. Lots of flexibility here, a little blue/violet goes a long way. I've used 440-445nm Royal Blue Luxeon ESs for this, but I know of at least one other that used to use RBs and switched to Deep Violets and almost doubled growth. Steve's LEDs now carries a good Hyper Violet made by SemiLED.


;)

pg276...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&page=276

Subsea
03/01/2016, 09:58 PM
We all are experimenting with what works best. Good fortune on your quest.

DamonG
03/02/2016, 12:21 AM
Not sure if it could be used in a scrubber as it is a very powerful light on my fuge, but it is growing my cheato like I never have before.. I am posting this, as I have had scrubbers in the past also, and would be interested in someone else's possible experiment/trying this with a scrubber.. After all, it could easily be turned on its side..

MarsHydro Mars300 Mars600 LED Grow Light(Mars300 with Veg/Bloom Spectrum for Hydroponic Indoor Greenhouse/Garden Plant Growing, 132W True Watt Panel) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XC3LBI2/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_XqP1wb4281DC3

outy
03/02/2016, 10:42 AM
MarsHydro Mars300 Mars600 LED Grow Light(Mars300 with Veg/Bloom Spectrum for Hydroponic Indoor Greenhouse/Garden Plant Growing, 132W True Watt Panel) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XC3LBI2/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_XqP1wb4281DC3

That would be how to waste energy


Way to much power for ATS

I'm getting by with 20w and growing algae.

outy
03/02/2016, 10:47 AM
We all are experimenting with what works best. Good fortune on your quest.


That is just it


They have tested the different spectrums for years, and done side by side test.


Plain white cheapo CF will work, but over time they have worked it out to red leds.


The trick here or main objective, is the most growth with the lowest wattage consumed.


There are many ways to skin this cat, and all I'm telling you is the CURRENT conclusion of what is working the best after years of experience on their part.

Floyd has been with this from the beginning and has been very very helpful to THIS community. As far as I am concerned he is an authority on the topic.

shermanator
03/02/2016, 11:03 AM
Anectodally, it seems that 3:1 to 5:1 (red:blue) ratio provides the most success. But all of this hasn't been scientifically verified.

If you look at chlorophyll a and b peaks, it makes most sense to me to use 4 LEDs (420, 450, 625 and 660). 420/660 for chlorophyll a and 450/625 for chlorophyll b. I have some BML strips that are great at growing algae, but I have not done any control experiments. Here is one strip that I have:

http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-report-details?partNo=PS1290S201TSTKGTSTLATSTKG

The trouble with knowing what is optimal is that people report everything from low watt CFLs to HPS as being the "best" without any real experimentation going on... me included.

shermanator
03/02/2016, 11:05 AM
They have tested the different spectrums for years, and done side by side test.


Where? I have read most of Floyd's posts here (and at his other site) and he has certainly evolved what he has found to be "best", but I have never seen him do a side-by-side comparison... do you have a link?

DamonG
03/02/2016, 11:50 AM
That would be how to waste energy


Way to much power for ATS

I'm getting by with 20w and growing algae.
What kind of algea though? Turf? Or just the regular green, slime and brown?

And maybe it is, depending on the size of the system, and if lit from both sides. But what about a larger system(say for instance, mine is 210 gallons total and /or larger )? And growing turf algea..

Because turf, from what I learned, is the best to grow and requires extremely strong light..

But Hmmnn.. Lol, I guess if I really want to know, I can build one myself and experiment.. And then see what it does first hand..

The other thing is conventional thought on scrubbers and cheato is low light. But those same low light fixtures don't produce the growth that I get in my fuge(about 20x18x7). With lots light fixtures and bulbs,, and this is what I think people miss, I was having that typical "die off, light colored, algea. But with higher light, even with low nutrients, cheato and a scrubber does produce well.. And this one even easily outperforms my hps 150..

I may just build one myself and see..

outy
03/02/2016, 03:09 PM
Where?

Here is one red VS blue

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23848062&postcount=679


First pic is red screen-I got about 3/4 cup algae. There are a couple patches of algae that are kind of stiff with strands maybe a little less than 1/16" in diameter. The strands crush easily. The rest is hair algae. The other pic is the blue screen. I got about 1/4 cup algae.

outy
03/02/2016, 03:18 PM
What's the most ideal ratio of Red/White/Blue LEDS?

and floyds response

Skip the WW and go all red. If anything mix 50/50 660nm and 630nm and maybe 1 455 or 425 blue per 6-8 reds, if any blues at all. Nothing is 'proven' yet but there have been a few getting good growth with only 660 and only 630 so mix 'em and that way you're covered.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19438012&postcount=82

oreo57
03/02/2016, 04:11 PM
What's the most ideal ratio of Red/White/Blue LEDS?

and floyds response

Skip the WW and go all red. If anything mix 50/50 660nm and 630nm and maybe 1 455 or 425 blue per 6-8 reds, if any blues at all. Nothing is 'proven' yet but there have been a few getting good growth with only 660 and only 630 so mix 'em and that way you're covered.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19438012&postcount=82

a few getting good growth with only 660 and only 630 so mix 'em and that way you're covered.


brings us back to the broad spectrum red/ royal blue "full spectrum" LED's doesn't it?

;)

you can't say I am wrong if nobody tried them..

outy
03/02/2016, 05:09 PM
brings us back to the broad spectrum red/ royal blue "full spectrum" LED's doesn't it?

..

Nope.

He is talking about 2 colors of red. 630 and 660 are both red.



These are the lights many of us are running now and they have a little blue as well. close to the 6-8 red to 1 blue being suggested by floyd as an alternative to all red.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321875550065?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=510820920568&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


On a side note the 30W light is really using only 20W, so take the drop into consideration when figuring out ones requirements

oreo57
03/02/2016, 05:22 PM
Nope.

He is talking about 2 colors of red. 630 and 660 are both red.






:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

It makes little difference:
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/compred,jpg

shermanator
03/02/2016, 05:40 PM
Here is one red VS blue

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23848062&postcount=679


First pic is red screen-I got about 3/4 cup algae. There are a couple patches of algae that are kind of stiff with strands maybe a little less than 1/16" in diameter. The strands crush easily. The rest is hair algae. The other pic is the blue screen. I got about 1/4 cup algae.

That is all blue vs all red. I was asking where is the 3:1 or 5:1 red:blue vs all red side by side experiment? No one here suggested all blue would be better than all red.

Fredfish
03/02/2016, 06:31 PM
Oreo, who's LED is that? All the warm white diodes I have looked at have a more broad yellow/red band.

It would be interesting to blend with a rebel lime to get a white with more red in it (none algae use).

Now if you could cut that 450nm peak in half they could be mixed with a little 420-430nm violets for a nice algae grow light.



It makes little difference:
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/compred,jpg

oreo57
03/02/2016, 06:40 PM
Oreo, who's LED is that? All the warm white diodes I have looked at have a more broad yellow/red band.

It would be interesting to blend with a rebel lime to get a white with more red in it (none algae use).

Now if you could cut that 450nm peak in half they could be mixed with a little 420-430nm violets for a nice algae grow light.

They call them "full spectrum" on flea bay though they don't have any of the green phosphor.

outy
03/02/2016, 09:40 PM
Here is one month growth from the 30w light I posted

To large a screen for 1 cube a day, but growth is even and coloring up.


http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s607/John_K_Winford/IMG_0523_zpsjrteyjiw.jpg

MidwesternTexan
03/12/2016, 06:24 AM
Whoops, I all but fogot I posted this thread,
And Thanks for posting!

This is a controlled experiemnt. LED growth vs CFL.

Well, I pulled the trigger and bought 2 x 30 W Grow Light LEDs.
** The lights I got were NOT plug and play! I kind of expected that however when I read that somewhere.
*Luckily- I save things that I think might be usefull on another project in the future!
I had several 5ft 3 prong/wire plug and wire I cut off my old/used PC lights.
So I got out my soldering iron and solder- that gets used once every 5 yrs or so, and soldered and taped the wires up- now like new!- freebie too.

Here are the lights- I bought two of them- shipped to me for less than $40 total.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu302/TexasTodd_photo/Mobile%20Uploads/7BFDF23A-E3CF-43CF-BE3B-32B1DDBEFD96_zpsuiv7ctcs.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/TexasTodd_photo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/7BFDF23A-E3CF-43CF-BE3B-32B1DDBEFD96_zpsuiv7ctcs.jpg.html)

After installing the wire/plug. Did NOT require any type of ballast/transformer, etc.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu302/TexasTodd_photo/Mobile%20Uploads/7CF277A2-FCE6-4F30-8C34-A1717D4B675B_zpsukpiqkeo.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/TexasTodd_photo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/7CF277A2-FCE6-4F30-8C34-A1717D4B675B_zpsukpiqkeo.jpg.html)

I used my noodle and devised a free, easy way to hang the lights at the existing area using some old (saved for future projects) fiberglass rod sections from an old tent I once had.
I used some old high tensile line salvaged out of my sailing gear. Todd_Sails- right?

The experiment is one sheet has CFL's and one has LED's.
I cleaned both sheets equally and at the same time this time so they both start even.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu302/TexasTodd_photo/Mobile%20Uploads/32D7B598-DF62-489F-A082-E3280366ABF8_zpsg3bpwnki.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/TexasTodd_photo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/32D7B598-DF62-489F-A082-E3280366ABF8_zpsg3bpwnki.jpg.html)

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu302/TexasTodd_photo/Mobile%20Uploads/F167D534-957B-4295-B955-2733468AF5E6_zpsbrzlotx6.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/TexasTodd_photo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F167D534-957B-4295-B955-2733468AF5E6_zpsbrzlotx6.jpg.html)

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu302/TexasTodd_photo/Mobile%20Uploads/8D25D4D4-2018-4A99-890F-97FD4ADC4F0E_zpscimuamcy.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/TexasTodd_photo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/8D25D4D4-2018-4A99-890F-97FD4ADC4F0E_zpscimuamcy.jpg.html)

I'm also tried Aluminum Foil for the top splash guard this time, instead of clear plastic.
The alum. foil kinda stays creased around the pipe better than plastic wrap, and it will block the light too.

You can be sure I'll post back with the results,
Todd

MidwesternTexan
03/12/2016, 06:28 AM
Why have you decided that a red led is an upgrade from CFL? Does photosynthesis happen in only one band width of color spectrum?


I use a 23W CFL that is 5000 Kelvin color reduction from Home Depot under the product name "ecoSmart". It is made in China where standards for color spectrum are not regularly reported.

I'm doing this comparison, with Chinese CFL's @ 2700K,
and my now grow light Leds 30W, both started with a cleaned screen, side by side, etc.

MY ATS has 2 large screens side by side, I usually clean them staggered, to keep one growing algae.

While I"m getting good growth with the CFL's, Turbo recommends changing them Q 3 months- the LED's should last ~ 10 years.

MidwesternTexan
03/12/2016, 04:14 PM
Here are the specs for the lights I posted about above:

Specifications:
Voltage: 220V
Power: 30W
Light angle: 120
Material:Aluminum
Waterproof level: IP65
Led chips: 10 series 3 parallel
Leds: 24 pieces red chip:620--660nm + 6pieces blue chip:450--470nm;
Service life: 50,000 hours

Also, sort of a typo, b/c 85V-220V will push the drvers just fine.
I wired a 3 prong plug per the directions that came with it.
The is also a sticker on the light that has a check marked box beside 120V.

Others using the smae light state they're getting great growth.
They take up WAY LESS room than the CFL in those big dome reflectors too.
I'm liking them already. The Red light is cool too

MidwesternTexan
03/12/2016, 04:29 PM
I read the complete thread. No offense to Floyd, but his name does not equate to scientific peer reviewed papers. In a macro algae refugium, I used a hydroponic fixture with 1:1 ratio of red to blue. I was very happy with it. Does that make it better than a 3:1 ratio of red to blue? Not necessarily, but it was my experience.

I don't use an ATS. For me, the discussion is academic.

Subsea,

It's nothing personal, I'm SURE you are a great person, intelligent, etc.

BUT- you just stated you don't use ATS's.- Thats fine, up until about 6 months ago, I didn't either.
And BUT- the title of the thread, specifically LED info for ATS ONLY!

I should know- I'm the OP!

Every topic has data, research, etc.

Please, this thread is about LED info- FOR ATS's
Just yesterday I put one of my 2 screens on LED's, and doing my own comparison My LED's, vs 2700K CFLs.

outy
03/12/2016, 07:32 PM
In the last 10 days my screen above is turning the lighter green like the small patches on the right.

Its filling in the bares post as well

MidwesternTexan
03/13/2016, 01:50 PM
Here is one month growth from the 30w light I posted

To large a screen for 1 cube a day, but growth is even and coloring up.


http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s607/John_K_Winford/IMG_0523_zpsjrteyjiw.jpg

Does that have saran wrap covering the shole sheet, keeping all the water in and the splashing down?
Also- lighting one side?

Looks like excellent growth

outy
03/13/2016, 02:20 PM
No saran wrap

And yes just lighting one side.



I feed 1 cube a day and that screen is way to large for what I feed. I really need to cut it down which would increase growth rate. But I'm just going to clean it every two months and see how that plays out.

MidwesternTexan
03/13/2016, 03:09 PM
Thanks for the reply outy,

clean it every two months? If you can wait that long- good luck on that one.

I feel that my 2 sheets, each slightly over 10"x10", light both sides is more than I need.
Definitely slightly more than 400 sq. in. lit.

Hopefully, my experiemnt will indeed show that these LED outgrow the CFL's-

outy
03/14/2016, 09:39 AM
Hopefully, my experiemnt will indeed show that these LED outgrow the CFL's-



It should. That's where my money would be bet.


I have a 30w identical light in 6500k, I could place on the other side and experiment.

outy
03/14/2016, 10:42 PM
Here is 6 weeks

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s607/John_K_Winford/IMG_0525_zpsomtqluyu.jpg

TONY_C
03/15/2016, 05:50 AM
Here is 6 weeks



Hi outy...just wondering if you could give me the approximate length and width dimensions on that LED fixture. The seller on ebay is not much help. Also, I may have missed where you said it but how long are you running these LEDs every day?

outy
03/15/2016, 02:07 PM
Hi outy...just wondering if you could give me the approximate length and width dimensions on that LED fixture. The seller on ebay is not much help. Also, I may have missed where you said it but how long are you running these LEDs every day?

8.9 * 7.3 * 1.9in


18 hours a day.

12 hours for first 3 weeks

MorganAtlanta
03/15/2016, 03:48 PM
What's the most ideal ratio of Red/White/Blue LEDS?

and floyds response

Skip the WW and go all red. If anything mix 50/50 660nm and 630nm and maybe 1 455 or 425 blue per 6-8 reds, if any blues at all. Nothing is 'proven' yet but there have been a few getting good growth with only 660 and only 630 so mix 'em and that way you're covered.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19438012&postcount=82

That's a really old post (2011). There has been a huge amount of experimentation since then. I think you'll find more up to date information on the more recent algae scrubber basic and advanced threads here, or look at Turbo's Aquatics site and see what ratios they use on their current scrubbers.

In general, people seem to do better when they match the spectrum of chlorophyll A, which is stronger in algae, rather than B (i.e. 420nm and 660nm), and I think that is what the latest Turbo's Aquatics scrubbers use.

outy
03/15/2016, 07:15 PM
That's a really old post (2011). There has been a huge amount of experimentation since then. I think you'll find more up to date information on the more recent algae scrubber basic and advanced threads here, or look at Turbo's Aquatics site and see what ratios they use on their current scrubbers.

In general, people seem to do better when they match the spectrum of chlorophyll A, which is stronger in algae, rather than B (i.e. 420nm and 660nm), and I think that is what the latest Turbo's Aquatics scrubbers use.

I have red these sites well.


Your welcome to quote and source anyone who shows an increase in growth over red alone.

I know Floyd has recommended all red and Paul used all red, and I thought Floyd has mentioned a sort of bald spot where his blue led was.


With that said I do run a few blue myself mixed with a majority of red.

MidwesternTexan
03/19/2016, 06:21 AM
The ones I posted the specs for are mostly red, some blue.

After Day 7 of my CFL vs LED experiement:

They both grew about the same amount,
yet the LED's side is much darker, while the CFL side is a brighter green?

I have 3 x 100W equiv. CFL's on the one screen, 1 on one sice, 2 on the other (fit my space better)

The LED's are 2 x 30W (advertised W)- one on each side.

Didn't SM state that he thought the darker meant pulling more nutrients?

outy
03/19/2016, 09:46 AM
Didn't SM state that he thought the darker meant pulling more nutrients?


Not sure but if he did it would mean for a run in well established ATS

FullBoreReefer
03/19/2016, 01:24 PM
I run my ATS in a 5gal bucket. I currently use these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/371480172206?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This pic was taken on day1
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/image_zpsthrkdrf0.jpeg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/image_zpsthrkdrf0.jpeg.html)


The lights are working and growing algae now that I'm close to day 40, but I've decided to try these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/291670940148?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=590701284790&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I think I'm gonna "line" or "wrap" it around the inside of the bucket, so in a sense it'll be 360* lighting instead of two spot lights. Who knows but I'm gonna try it. The new lights are supposed to be here today.

TONY_C
03/20/2016, 08:48 AM
I run my ATS in a 5gal bucket. I currently use these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/371480172206?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This pic was taken on day1
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/image_zpsthrkdrf0.jpeg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/image_zpsthrkdrf0.jpeg.html)


The lights are working and growing algae now that I'm close to day 40, but I've decided to try these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/291670940148?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=590701284790&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I think I'm gonna "line" or "wrap" it around the inside of the bucket, so in a sense it'll be 360* lighting instead of two spot lights. Who knows but I'm gonna try it. The new lights are supposed to be here today.


Those are the 10 Watt units? How big is your screen? I would think that the white bucket can only help with reflecting all the light back onto the screen, has the growth been good once it started? I am looking at the 30 Watt models for a scrubber I made that is 7" x 7" but it's not going to rely on any reflected light like yours. I can't decided if the 20 Watt units will be good enough though.

FullBoreReefer
03/20/2016, 12:01 PM
Those are the 10 Watt units? How big is your screen? I would think that the white bucket can only help with reflecting all the light back onto the screen, has the growth been good once it started? I am looking at the 30 Watt models for a scrubber I made that is 7" x 7" but it's not going to rely on any reflected light like yours. I can't decided if the 20 Watt units will be good enough though.

Yes, I use two 10watt 12v units with a 12v 3a power supply and they are mounted almost at the top of the screen about 4.25" away and point downward to help keep stray light in(see pics).

First 3-4wks it was on a 12/12 light schedule, then moved to 18/6.

My screen is 9"W x 10"L, which is big I know for how I feed.

Because of the larger screen and since I don't feed per the "cube rule", mine took a few extra weeks to get going. But now it grows just fine, I clean/scrape one half of the screen every seven days, and alternate sides like recommended.


Day 1 with CFL until LEDs came in...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/image_zpso5akj64r.jpeg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/image_zpso5akj64r.jpeg.html)


Week 2 with 10watt fixtures...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/Mobile%20Uploads/20160208_104550_zpsnljshdqj.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160208_104550_zpsnljshdqj.jpg.html)


Today(3/20/16) with 10watt led fixtures...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/70400F6A-D45B-4E95-A185-700F750D7C4F_zpsw3kkuuvi.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/70400F6A-D45B-4E95-A185-700F750D7C4F_zpsw3kkuuvi.jpg.html)


http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/333AA7F4-DCCA-48BB-91C4-298849E10BB9_zpsirdty8lt.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/333AA7F4-DCCA-48BB-91C4-298849E10BB9_zpsirdty8lt.jpg.html)


http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/27A6BFD7-6786-4F1D-A7A5-11E77F7A3B6A_zps8pyvxpz1.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/27A6BFD7-6786-4F1D-A7A5-11E77F7A3B6A_zps8pyvxpz1.jpg.html)



"New" led rope light to supplement, added 3/19/16...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/07871A5F-BA02-46A1-BC33-EF9D65F84E49_zpscbspkfog.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/07871A5F-BA02-46A1-BC33-EF9D65F84E49_zpscbspkfog.jpg.html)


http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/71B74AB2-297A-41D7-815B-34530049B817_zpsbwb9qbs2.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/71B74AB2-297A-41D7-815B-34530049B817_zpsbwb9qbs2.jpg.html)


http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/78929E40-A69A-4562-9DA3-E15F0BF26F21_zpsqlcxsq5c.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/78929E40-A69A-4562-9DA3-E15F0BF26F21_zpsqlcxsq5c.jpg.html)



Grabbed a 10watt fixture off my fuge to help show color...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/416BAA47-CB26-4461-8AB4-6503ABA18D97_zpsaepk9fjm.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/416BAA47-CB26-4461-8AB4-6503ABA18D97_zpsaepk9fjm.jpg.html)


You can see in this pic that the right side was the last side I cleaned because alittle more light can show through...

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p576/Dane_Brillhart/09E61BDC-2795-45AA-8B71-C52EEF7674BB_zpsgeygfhpr.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/Dane_Brillhart/media/09E61BDC-2795-45AA-8B71-C52EEF7674BB_zpsgeygfhpr.jpg.html)

FullBoreReefer
03/20/2016, 12:12 PM
but I've decided to try these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/291670940148?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=590701284790&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I think I'm gonna "line" or "wrap" it around the inside of the bucket, so in a sense it'll be 360* lighting instead of two spot lights. Who knows but I'm gonna try it. The new lights are supposed to be here today.

I posted the wrong link in my previous post to the rope lights, this is the one I ordered, as this has the 660nm reds and the other was 626-630nm...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311518191963?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=610524775395&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

outy
03/20/2016, 07:54 PM
Great growth !

FullBoreReefer
03/20/2016, 10:17 PM
Double Post...Sorry

FullBoreReefer
03/20/2016, 10:19 PM
Great growth !

After checking my calendar I am on day 51. At this point I forget how long it was before it really took off, i don't have any pics from 3-4wks until the last pic on 3/20/16. But from here on out I know she's working!!!

Thanks guys!

TONY_C
04/05/2016, 01:51 PM
Just some FYI. I bought these LEDs in the 30W version. I measured the power consumption and it only uses 18 Watts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/IP65-30W-30LED-Plant-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-Flood-Lamp-For-Veg-Flower-Plants-LL1S-/291623987112?hash=item43e624e7a8:g:p8QAAOSwv-NWVCjr

outy
04/05/2016, 02:31 PM
Just some FYI. I bought these LEDs in the 30W version. I measured the power consumption and it only uses 18 Watts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/IP65-30W-30LED-Plant-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-Flood-Lamp-For-Veg-Flower-Plants-LL1S-/291623987112?hash=item43e624e7a8:g:p8QAAOSwv-NWVCjr


Correct. Most of us know that going in.


I wanted 20w a side so I bought 30w ;)

hkgar
04/05/2016, 03:32 PM
I am not sure how you measure power consumption. How can I measure power consumption?

I bought these through Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

My Apex tells me that my amps go up about .3 when these lights (2) come on.

FullBoreReefer
04/05/2016, 08:17 PM
What about par readings? I measured my 10watt'ers around 180~200 about 4.5" away. Any merit to this versus wattage?

TONY_C
04/05/2016, 08:27 PM
I am not sure how you measure power consumption. How can I measure power consumption?



I used this http://eshop.macsales.com/item/P3%20International/P4400/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase&gclid=CKDL4IH7-MsCFVJahgodAu8Pqg

Floyd R Turbo
04/08/2016, 08:50 AM
Not a very convincing argument and who is Floyd??

Hello

Point is it probably matters little that one uses blue based diodes w/ a broad spectrum red (NOT Blue plus red diodes) and I suspect you will not see any difference and possibly
a benefit. did Floyd TRY "full spectrum" LEd's??

Never really got around to it, but Deep Red + Hyper Violet works so well for me, why bother.

Floyds recommendations

Here is my recommendation for LED lighting of a waterfall algae scrubber screen:

This is for a double-sided screen using Philips Luxeon ES 3W Deep Red 660nm LEDs without lenses (120-140 degree) running at 700mA at 2-3" from the screen to LED

Minimum coverage: One LED on each side of every 8 sq in of screen
Maximum coverage: One LED on each side of every 4 sq in of screen

Even Floyd is a bit wishy washy on this.. From post 6884 in the sticky..

;)

pg276...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&page=276

How am I being wishy washy?

Here is a link directly to the post (page numbers are relative to the user and how many posts/page they have set)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&page=138

*** This is current as of 2015-05-15! ***
----------------

Here is my recommendation for LED lighting of a waterfall algae scrubber screen:

This is for a double-sided screen using Philips Luxeon ES 3W Deep Red 660nm LEDs without lenses (120-140 degree) running at 700mA at 2-3" from the screen to LED

Minimum coverage: One LED on each side of every 8 sq in of screen
Maximum coverage: One LED on each side of every 4 sq in of screen

Simple as that. For new screens (bare) if using the "Maximum" level, run at 350mA until mature, or use a diffuser. Might have to do this with the Minimum level also actually, but not typically. The minimum could probably be stretched to a larger area but screen will cure slower and generally have less capacity.

So for a 6x6 screen, which is 36 sq in, /8 = 4.5 per side. Make it 5.
So for a 6x6 screen, which is 36 sq in, /4 = 9 per side.

Supplementing with blue/violet: Always run blues at 350mA, violets can be run higher but should follow the same rule for the maturing stage (350 at first, then increase after maturing). Use one to two at this current level for every 5-6 reds, roughly. Lots of flexibility here, a little blue/violet goes a long way. I've used 440-445nm Royal Blue Luxeon ESs for this, but I know of at least one other that used to use RBs and switched to Deep Violets and almost doubled growth. Steve's LEDs now carries a good Hyper Violet made by SemiLED.

Regarding non DIY-LEDs in general, this is what I have roughed out to help with this.
The issue is that my DIY LED guideline is based on coverage. You can't say "I need 5 3W LEDs which is 15W, so a 15 W fixture is what I need". It doesn't work that way.

That's because a 3W LED does not necessarily consume 3W, and a purchased LED may rate it's intensity based on actual wattage used, or it may add up the LEDs and give a wattage but the actual watt draw is less. You have to watch for this.

A 3W Philips Luxeon ES 660nm LED will typically drop 2.2v across the LED at 700mA. Power = Amps * Volts so 2.2 V * 0.700 A = 1.54W. What? I thought it was a 3W. It is. That is something called MARKETING. LEDs have become more efficient over time as they have been redesigned, so a lower Vdrop and Idrive results in the same output, but instead of calling it a 1.5W and confusing everyone, they call it a 3W still.

So now on to your fixture you are looking at.

Converting the "LED per unit area guideline" to a "wattage" guideline is as simple as doing the math.

Figure out what you need per the "unit area" guideline. In the above example, 6x6 screen, minimum level (low intensity), 5x 3W per side. Each is actually drawing 1.5W, so 5x1.5 = 7.5W. Your light fixture should actually consume, at the wall, a minimum of 7.5W. The electronics built into the fixture will draw power also, meaning that you might want to add a little cushion to the number. So a 10W fixture on a 6x6 screen would be about right for a comparable replacement to an array of 5x 3W LEDs.

Now let's add that factor in and parallel it to screen size. A 6x6 screen = 36 sq in. Make it 40. you need a 10W actual-draw LED fixture on each side of this. So you could say that the rule of thumb for a pre-built LED fixture is that you need 0.25W per square inch of screen. That would get you into the Minimum light arena - or "Minimum Intensity", and you need one of these on each side of the screen.

Doubling that would put you on the higher end. 0.5W per square inch - actual wattage draw of fixture.

What you have to watch for is when they use a multi-chip that has 9 1W LEDs on it and they call that 10W. Not necessarily true. But 1W LEDs are actually more efficient than 3W LEDs when you are talking radiant flux output per unit of energy input into the LED, so it's not horrible, just shoot for the higher light level and you'll be OK usually. At best, you will actually be at the minimum level. At worst, you'll be on the low side but still OK.

I actually thought that was prety clear. Gives you a range to work with, instead of being strict A + B = C, because it's rare that it works out that way. Anyone else see this ^^ as wishy washy? If it was just wishy, or just washy, I might be OK. But if it's both, then man, I overlooked something huge.


I read the complete thread. No offense to Floyd, but his name does not equate to scientific peer reviewed papers. In a macro algae refugium, I used a hydroponic fixture with 1:1 ratio of red to blue. I was very happy with it. Does that make it better than a 3:1 ratio of red to blue? Not necessarily, but it was my experience.

I don't use an ATS. For me, the discussion is academic.

I never said it was scientific. My real name is Warren Carlson, does that make me sound more scientific? I also have a Professional Engineering license, so I even have cool letters after my name. Of course that doesn't mean jack to anyone outside of the design & construction industry, but, meh. This is just a bit of humor here I take no offense and am not trying to be a smarty pants. I wear dummy pants most of the time, no suit and tie for this guy.

The application is not academic though, more below

Anectodally, it seems that 3:1 to 5:1 (red:blue) ratio provides the most success. But all of this hasn't been scientifically verified.

If you look at chlorophyll a and b peaks, it makes most sense to me to use 4 LEDs (420, 450, 625 and 660). 420/660 for chlorophyll a and 450/625 for chlorophyll b. I have some BML strips that are great at growing algae, but I have not done any control experiments. Here is one strip that I have:

http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-report-details?partNo=PS1290S201TSTKGTSTLATSTKG

The trouble with knowing what is optimal is that people report everything from low watt CFLs to HPS as being the "best" without any real experimentation going on... me included.

Anyways on a serious note, we don't grow plants. When you go to any sciency papers, you have to remember this. True we grow algae, and a lot of these papers are based on algae, but not the same kind. Truth is, there is not much that is specifically applicable. So you have to learn.

Here is what I have learned.

hydroponic fixtures made for growing plants are awesome to gleam info from. But again, plants. Plants love lots of intensity at certain times. I was told my someone whom I have faith in based on their experience and credentials that 630nm beats out 660nm about 3:1 in terms of growth per unit of power used (wattage of fixture). BUT. This does not equate to algae, because of intensity.

660 is actually the better spectrum for leafy plant growth (in certain stages) but it is so far red that the intensity drops off. So you need 3x the chips vs 630 and thus 3x the power. This is why you see a lot of 630 grow lights - because they are for plants. Not algae.

Why not algae? Intensity. If you put a Royal blue at 700mA 2" from an algae screen, then surround it with 660s in a 4" x 2" pattern with the reds on 2" centers, you will have a bare spot in the middle of the screen that maynever fill in. Trust me. I have a LOT of experience with this. Similarly, same array but 2 blues running at 350ma in the center of the 2 squares formed by the reds, not as bad but guess what - you will still have a bare area that will fill in slower. Switch to Hyper-violets, and that screen fills in nice and even. That small change in intensity by shiftin the spectrum toward the edge of visible makes all the difference.

Now, take your 660s and shift them to 630s, now your whole screen is photosaturated (at that same distance and current). The flipside of this argument is "just move the fixture back and drive it harder, then you don't need as many LEDs" and I would say, go for it! I haven't seen this tried but the issue might come down to getting the coverage right, use of proper lenses, maybe dimming, etc...

Anyways, what I have learned is that going the other direction is actually better taking the 660s, and putting them close, then dimming them. At first. As you get growth started, you can increase the photoperiod, then the intensity and flow, until you reach the happy zone for your tank. "Happy Zone" is a highly technical and registered and copyrighted term but I'll let everyone else use it.

What's the most ideal ratio of Red/White/Blue LEDS?

and floyds response

Skip the WW and go all red. If anything mix 50/50 660nm and 630nm and maybe 1 455 or 425 blue per 6-8 reds, if any blues at all. Nothing is 'proven' yet but there have been a few getting good growth with only 660 and only 630 so mix 'em and that way you're covered.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19438012&postcount=82

That's a really old post (2011). There has been a huge amount of experimentation since then. I think you'll find more up to date information on the more recent algae scrubber basic and advanced threads here, or look at Turbo's Aquatics site and see what ratios they use on their current scrubbers.

In general, people seem to do better when they match the spectrum of chlorophyll A, which is stronger in algae, rather than B (i.e. 420nm and 660nm), and I think that is what the latest Turbo's Aquatics scrubbers use.

I had to go to the post, that was old! That was before I had even tried LED scrubbers. But the point is the same as at the top of this post, 630s are too intense. Know what else is intense? Camping. Say it out loud.

Red 625-660nm Which are actually Floyds
I use only 660nm Philips Deep Red, nothing else, never have.

The only thing I've change is from one full power (700mA) blue : 6 full power reds to 6 reds (@700mA) : 2 blues (in parallel @350mA) and then 6 reds : 2 violets. Violets I have found can be run in the same series (700mA) as reds and the screen will still fill in well, about the same as when you are running 2 blues in parallel, maybe a little better (not much data on that). But when you run the violets at 50% of the reds, that's when it fills in quick.

When you keep the violets at 50% of the reds and dim the whole thing and run long hours, that's when you get quick maturing screens. When you use the mortar screen (sacrificial mortar coating on canvas) then it really matures fast.

But then again...who am I anyways. Oh yeah, I'm Floyd b%$#hes :lolspin::blown::uzi::frog::ape:

*Note: This message has contained heavy sarcasm and humor. Do not interpret the tone of this message using the voice in your head. You must use the voice in my head to properly interpret tone. Even then, use caution. Sometimes, I even **** myself off.

Floyd R Turbo
04/08/2016, 08:57 AM
Just some FYI. I bought these LEDs in the 30W version. I measured the power consumption and it only uses 18 Watts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/IP65-30W-30LED-Plant-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-Flood-Lamp-For-Veg-Flower-Plants-LL1S-/291623987112?hash=item43e624e7a8:g:p8QAAOSwv-NWVCjr

That's why, in my off-the-shelf guideline, better to go with 0.5W/sq in/side vs 0.25W and then use the label rating.

Either that, or take the label rating and reduce it by ~40% (I call the the "marketing factor") and then calculate based on 0.25W/sqin/side

Correct. Most of us know that going in.
I wanted 20w a side so I bought 30w ;)

I would say only some do. A whole lot of people think a 30W fixture should output 30W of light. They are dead wrong.

I am not sure how you measure power consumption. How can I measure power consumption?

I bought these through Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

My Apex tells me that my amps go up about .3 when these lights (2) come on.

Power = Current x Voltage.

So if you run on 120V and your amps go up by 0.3A, 120 x 0.3 = 36W

hkgar
04/08/2016, 11:53 AM
I am using of these lights on my scrubber and I just got a tester. They tested out at 25.4 Watts each.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

They are more expensive then the ones most have gotten

http://www.amazon.com/GLW-Waterproof-Fixture-Hydroponic-Greenhouse/dp/B012C4QMF8/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1460137861&sr=1-5&keywords=30+w+grow+led

which tested at only 18 watts.

TONY_C
04/08/2016, 11:59 AM
I am using of these lights on my scrubber and I just got a tester. They tested out at 25.4 Watts each.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

They are more expensive then the ones most have gotten

http://www.amazon.com/GLW-Waterproof-Fixture-Hydroponic-Greenhouse/dp/B012C4QMF8/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1460137861&sr=1-5&keywords=30+w+grow+led

which tested at only 18 watts.

Those look good but they are twice as much $ as the ones putting out 18 Watts

Floyd R Turbo
04/08/2016, 12:06 PM
Check the wavelength

I am using of these lights on my scrubber and I just got a tester. They tested out at 25.4 Watts each.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

Wavelength:red:620-630nm, blue:460-470nm

They are more expensive then the ones most have gotten

http://www.amazon.com/GLW-Waterproof-Fixture-Hydroponic-Greenhouse/dp/B012C4QMF8/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1460137861&sr=1-5&keywords=30+w+grow+led

which tested at only 18 watts.

Wavelength: full spectrum Red: 655~660nm, Blue:460nm

The first one is going to have a much higher intensity due to the 630s being used.

I'm not ruling that type of fixture out, time will tell though.

SantaMonica
04/08/2016, 01:13 PM
Love the bucket a few posts up; reminds me of the first scrubber I made in 2008. My favorite comment was "it won't fill in, because water will channel into narrow streams and leave most of the screen dry".

ali1
04/08/2016, 06:51 PM
This is what I use on each side of the screen. Grows really well and an improvement over CFL

http://m.ebay.com/itm/12-40-60-100W-LED-grow-light-Hydroponic-plants-led-lamps-Indoor-lighting-bulbs-/251320043955

FullBoreReefer
04/09/2016, 02:51 PM
Love the bucket a few posts up; reminds me of the first scrubber I made in 2008. My favorite comment was "it won't fill in, because water will channel into narrow streams and leave most of the screen dry".

It's the best thing I did, lol. Super easy, and it's all in one. Even grows extra algae on the bottom because of the 2" water depth. I use two uniseals and control it like a mini duroso drain. Super quiet, and fully contained!

FF337
05/23/2016, 08:19 AM
It's the best thing I did, lol. Super easy, and it's all in one. Even grows extra algae on the bottom because of the 2" water depth. I use two uniseals and control it like a mini duroso drain. Super quiet, and fully contained!

Looks great. Simple and efficient. I sent you a PM.

LED Jack
05/28/2016, 10:49 AM
Subsea, I doubt that the greenhouse supplier makes the LEDs you mentioned. I am a LED manufacturer and all my manufacturing is done overseas.

LED Jack

John2755
05/28/2016, 11:49 PM
I have a total of 12 LEDs over my fuge. I know it's not an ats but the combo of 6 warm white and 6 magenta LEDs grows chateo and culerpa or how ever you spell it like crazy.

MidwesternTexan
05/29/2016, 07:36 AM
This is what I use on each side of the screen. Grows really well and an improvement over CFL

http://m.ebay.com/itm/12-40-60-100W-LED-grow-light-Hydroponic-plants-led-lamps-Indoor-lighting-bulbs-/251320043955

These lights look good/interesting. ^^

This is what I used:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221708884782?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=520555366552&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm using the 30W version of the ones that have been posted, with them all in the center with the wide/sort of flat reflector-
it's working great!

* So is my screen that uses the 3 x 100Weq. (23W) CFL's!

In reality- these screens 1- LED's; the other screen CFL's-
have very similar growth rates and patterns!
Advantages to the LED's though is:
- great growth
- slimmer profile/less space for the lights
- cost savings in wattage, and bulb replacement
- ?

SantaMonica
05/29/2016, 10:35 AM
I bought these LEDs in the 30W version. I measured the power consumption and it only uses 18

And, a lot of that 18 watts goes to heat for the power supply.

To measure actual power at the LEDs *after* the power supply, measure the voltage across them, and the current through them, and the answer is Voltage X Current = LED Watts.

hkgar
05/29/2016, 11:29 AM
And, a lot of that 18 watts goes to heat for the power supply.

To measure actual power at the LEDs *after* the power supply, measure the voltage across them, and the current through them, and the answer is Voltage X Current = LED Watts.

Why doesn't the quote you are referencing have a reference back to the post so we could click back to see what light this refers to? Usually they do.

SantaMonica
05/29/2016, 01:45 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IP65-30W-30LED-Plant-Grow-Light-Hydroponic-Flood-Lamp-For-Veg-Flower-Plants-LL1S-/291623987112?hash=item43e624e7a8:g:p8QAAOSwv-NWVCjr

SantaMonica
05/29/2016, 02:03 PM
I myself bought the 20 watt version, and it only used 13 watts out of the wall. And a lot of that was the power supply itself getting hot, so only a part of that went to the LEDs.

fishbox
05/29/2016, 02:47 PM
I myself bought the 20 watt version, and it only used 13 watts out of the wall. And a lot of that was the power supply itself getting hot, so only a part of that went to the LEDs.
I'm looking at two 10w versions for a 3x4 screen (one light per side ). Would this provide enough actual power per side or should I look at 20w version?

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk

SantaMonica
05/29/2016, 03:26 PM
The limitation there is the small screen size; larger lights will miss a lot of the screen. So the smallest physical size... 10w... should be fine.

Horace
06/01/2016, 06:49 AM
Here is one red VS blue

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23848062&postcount=679


First pic is red screen-I got about 3/4 cup algae. There are a couple patches of algae that are kind of stiff with strands maybe a little less than 1/16" in diameter. The strands crush easily. The rest is hair algae. The other pic is the blue screen. I got about 1/4 cup algae.

This may be covered, but just because the blue only grew 1/4 cup vs the 3/4 cup from red doesnt mean forget blue IMO. What would be a better test is to test them combined to see if you would get 1 full cup, because they each may add growth not achievable from the other spectrum.

fishbox
06/01/2016, 06:55 AM
The limitation there is the small screen size; larger lights will miss a lot of the screen. So the smallest physical size... 10w... should be fine.
Well the tank is a 40B that's not complete yet and I'm not sure how much I'll be feeding. Keeping the mindset at adding livestock slowly, I'm gonna start with the 3x4 screen and leave room to double or triple the size as needed.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk

Horace
06/01/2016, 06:55 AM
I myself bought the 20 watt version, and it only used 13 watts out of the wall. And a lot of that was the power supply itself getting hot, so only a part of that went to the LEDs.

that is probably because this fixture seems to allow for up to 240v. My guess is that this fixture wont run at 30w unless you drive it with the higher voltage.

Floyd R Turbo
06/01/2016, 08:52 AM
that is probably because this fixture seems to allow for up to 240v. My guess is that this fixture wont run at 30w unless you drive it with the higher voltage.

That's not correct. Universal voltage input LED drivers will output the rated power regardless of the voltage input. When a lower input voltage is applied, the driver/power supply draws more current.

Horace
06/01/2016, 09:56 AM
That's not correct. Universal voltage input LED drivers will output the rated power regardless of the voltage input. When a lower input voltage is applied, the driver/power supply draws more current.
Then the 30w rating is a lie?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Floyd R Turbo
06/01/2016, 09:59 AM
I never said that. Power = Current * Voltage. If you know current and voltage then you can calculate the power used by the power supply.

For instance if it is truly delivering 30W of power at 120V, your current should be around 0.25 A (at the wall, not the load side of the power supply)

If it is delivering 30W of power on 240V, then current (wall) should be 0.125A

Horace
06/01/2016, 11:25 AM
I never said that. Power = Current * Voltage. If you know current and voltage then you can calculate the power used by the power supply.

For instance if it is truly delivering 30W of power at 120V, your current should be around 0.25 A (at the wall, not the load side of the power supply)

If it is delivering 30W of power on 240V, then current (wall) should be 0.125A

I know how that works :) I am an electronics tech.

So my point is if the unit is only consuming 13w from the wall (as noted above), when the unit is rated for 30w, tells me that they are misrepresenting the actual power of the unit.

and yes Power = Current x Voltage

Obviously the current consumption is significantly lower than needed for 110v (about half) to achieve the 30w rating.

While I am not super familiar with the function of the LED drivers, I was under the impression that the drivers had a fairly narrow band of Voltage they worked with. That being said, I suspect that they dont always automatically adjust the current draw upwards when the voltage is lower. BTW, this is pretty common thing for cheap fixtures made for 240v to produce roughly half the output when put on 110v, and I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that is exactly what is happening here too given it appears to be consuming nearly half the power rating noted on the unit.

hkgar
06/01/2016, 12:54 PM
SO, what do the readings from my lamp mean
Volt 116.9
Current .21
Watts 24.3

SantaMonica
06/01/2016, 02:06 PM
Looks like a Kill-o-watt meter reading from the wall. If so, it means that the power supply + LEDs use 25 watts total. Typically, this would mean that the LEDs are using about 18 to 20 watts themselves, and the rest is wasted as heat in the power supply.

FF337
06/01/2016, 06:03 PM
I have about 80$ give or take in this ATS. I am feeding it with my main pump off a manifold. I am using the 30 watt version of the waterproof flood light with red and blue LEDs.

I am using two 1" bulkheads as drains. I have a 2" piece of pvc in one above the operating level in case the first drain becomes clogged. I am going to change these 1" bulkheads to 2" bulkheads run the same way.

Thanks for your help fullbore. I decided to use the container vs the bucket since I had the space.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsyo17q6zx.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsryxya19o.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsibwt0z3u.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsi6abyj5c.jpeg

Floyd R Turbo
06/02/2016, 08:45 AM
it's more for the basics thread vs the lighting info thread but IMO that's an iffy install, you're trapping all the heat from the heat sinks against the plastic and even though those are IP65 fixtures I would still hesitate to put them into a semi-closed box. JMO though.

Floyd R Turbo
06/02/2016, 08:49 AM
I know how that works :) I am an electronics tech.

So my point is if the unit is only consuming 13w from the wall (as noted above), when the unit is rated for 30w, tells me that they are misrepresenting the actual power of the unit.

and yes Power = Current x Voltage

Obviously the current consumption is significantly lower than needed for 110v (about half) to achieve the 30w rating.

While I am not super familiar with the function of the LED drivers, I was under the impression that the drivers had a fairly narrow band of Voltage they worked with. That being said, I suspect that they dont always automatically adjust the current draw upwards when the voltage is lower. BTW, this is pretty common thing for cheap fixtures made for 240v to produce roughly half the output when put on 110v, and I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that is exactly what is happening here too given it appears to be consuming nearly half the power rating noted on the unit.

Just making sure, I don't like to assume :) but that's good info on the 240 vs 120, yet another thing to watch out for. If that was the case, that would explain a lot.

A quality PS like a Meanwell will output the rated power at a wide variance of input. But then again we're not dealing with quality PSs in these fixtures, we're dealing with as-cheap-as-you-can-get PSs.

I work with commercial & street lighting, so those fall into the quality side of the fence. If a spec sheet says Vin is 120-277V, I know that the light fixture outputs precisely the same amount of light throughout that entire range of Vin

Horace
06/02/2016, 09:16 AM
Just making sure, I don't like to assume :) but that's good info on the 240 vs 120, yet another thing to watch out for. If that was the case, that would explain a lot.

A quality PS like a Meanwell will output the rated power at a wide variance of input. But then again we're not dealing with quality PSs in these fixtures, we're dealing with as-cheap-as-you-can-get PSs.

I work with commercial & street lighting, so those fall into the quality side of the fence. If a spec sheet says Vin is 120-277V, I know that the light fixture outputs precisely the same amount of light throughout that entire range of Vin
Yeah I believe u. So the question is, are some of these fixtures simply falsely advertising the actual power output or just not work as good on 110v. Either way, if the fixture is consuming only 13w total when rated at 30w....they are misrepresenting the product..at least for 110v, if not both :(

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

FullBoreReefer
06/02/2016, 11:19 AM
I have about 80$ give or take in this ATS. I am feeding it with my main pump off a manifold. I am using the 30 watt version of the waterproof flood light with red and blue LEDs.

I am using two 1" bulkheads as drains. I have a 2" piece of pvc in one above the operating level in case the first drain becomes clogged. I am going to change these 1" bulkheads to 2" bulkheads run the same way.

Thanks for your help fullbore. I decided to use the container vs the bucket since I had the space.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsyo17q6zx.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsryxya19o.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsibwt0z3u.jpeg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Pringle1232/image_zpsi6abyj5c.jpeg

Interesting idea on spraying the screen versus it running out of the pipe the screen mounts to, only thing you may see differently is the amount of salt creep from the over spray. Please keep us posted.

Horace
06/02/2016, 12:08 PM
I wondered why there were two pipes!!! (spray bars)

If i was to go that route, which I can see the advantage of not having to mess with any water when you remove the screen, I think i would have mounted them much closer to the screen, and also done more/smaller holes. Not saying it would be better, just saying :P

FF337
06/02/2016, 01:00 PM
The pipe with the screen attached removes without turning water off to it. Then drop it back in when cleaned.

FF337
06/02/2016, 08:41 PM
it's more for the basics thread vs the lighting info thread but IMO that's an iffy install, you're trapping all the heat from the heat sinks against the plastic and even though those are IP65 fixtures I would still hesitate to put them into a semi-closed box. JMO though.

So remove the top? Or remove them from the box completely?

FF337
06/02/2016, 08:43 PM
it's more for the basics thread vs the lighting info thread but IMO that's an iffy install, you're trapping all the heat from the heat sinks against the plastic and even though those are IP65 fixtures I would still hesitate to put them into a semi-closed box. JMO though.

So remove the top? Or remove them from the box completely? Or is the whole design shotty? I have several friends that use it with great results.

niladride
06/03/2016, 04:06 AM
Hi Floyd,

I have built the ATS but yet to get the light fixture. I have made a 12 * 10 screen, I hope I won't need that big screen, I am planning for single side lighting with a couple of the following:

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/LED-Lights/LED-Grow-Lights/24-Watt-E27-LED-Grow-Light/#specsa

Will these be enough?

Floyd R Turbo
06/03/2016, 09:35 AM
While I didn't start this thread I would like to see it more focused on just the light fixtures, info, reviews, etc...instead of this thread turning into another general Algae Scrubber Q&A thread, FF337 I'll post a reply for yours over there

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420

niladride

"7 red, 3 dark red and 2 blue LEDs this grow light emits light on 660nm, 630nm and 460nm wave lengths"

this is a plant growth light, which doesn't necessarily make it an algae scrubber light. 630s are much more intense than 660s, but the fixture lists 600mA drive current so you could do worse.

However you will need 4 of these per side for a 12x10 screen just based on coverage, usually the PAR type floodlights are adequate for about a 6x6 area. You might do 2x/side maybe, the issue with the 630s is that you'll likely have to back them off a bit to find the sweet spot where they don't photosaturate. Also you could probably remove the bezel on that fixture and take the lenses off, which would spread the light out more.

I would revisit the screen size first.

Floyd R Turbo
06/03/2016, 09:46 AM
FF337: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24560889&postcount=8419

niladride
06/03/2016, 10:18 AM
Thanks for your reply, Floyd.

I am not going to have both sides lighted, single side only.

I can get something like this too:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/321874191865?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Or this

http://www.ebay.in/itm/272137860471?var=570948582121&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Also these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200W-UFO-LED-Grow-Light-IR-UV-Full-Spectrum-Hydroponic-Hydro-Plant-Growing-Lamps-/371605923934?hash=item568570685e:g:BzYAAOSw2GlXGHt-

These are rated @200/130/150 watts

Floyd R Turbo
06/03/2016, 10:38 AM
The second link looks like the better fixture, the UFO is a 10 band plant growth and would make a super bright hot spot, plus there are LEDs halfway under the bezel, who designed that lol

azjohnny
06/05/2016, 06:57 PM
Any thoughts of this light , It is similar to a few lights I have but this one is all red while the ones I have 9 red and 3 blue

https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PPB1001

What I presently have

http://www.amazon.com/Litom-Latest-Growing-Greenhouse-Hydroponic/dp/B0179C60DW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465174634&sr=8-1&keywords=Litom+Latest+36W+LED+Plant+Growing+Lights%2C+E27+Bulbs+for+Indoor+Garden+Greenhouse+Hydropo nic+Lamps

SantaMonica
06/05/2016, 11:22 PM
"Latest 36W theoretical power, 12X3W, 36W"

"Actual power consumption 14.4W"

Both seem about the same real power. 14 watts used, probably means about 9 watts of LED power. So might as well get the cheaper one.

azjohnny
06/06/2016, 04:03 AM
I was thinking more about the color on of the lights 9 red/3 blue vs all red

Floyd R Turbo
06/06/2016, 08:32 AM
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PPB1001

That one has 15 LEDs and says it's 15W, so the good bet is that it actually draws ~75% of that in actual wattage, 1W LEDs usually operate a little closer to the actual wattage "rating" vs 3W LEDs. So yeah, probably drawing 9-11Wish.

As far as all red vs red+blue, the latter is not going to be worse, IMO it's good to have a little blue just not too much

What I presently have

http://www.amazon.com/Litom-Latest-Growing-Greenhouse-Hydroponic/dp/B0179C60DW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465174634&sr=8-1&keywords=Litom+Latest+36W+LED+Plant+Growing+Lights%2C+E27+Bulbs+for+Indoor+Garden+Greenhouse+Hydropo nic+Lamps

This fixture states that it is using 3W LEDs so their 36W is again based on marketing that 3W rating = 3W output. But at least they are honest that is actually consumes 14.4W

14.4W / 12 = 1.2W per LED (average) the thing that throws it off is that this lamp is a mixture of 660s, 630s and 460s. The latter 2 will have a different Vf, usually higher than the 660s. But let's say the average Vf is about 2.4V, then 1.2W / 2.4V = 0.5A or 500mA, so these are not running at a very high current but that is typical for a stock PAR type lamp. If they ran them at 700mA (or higher for the 630s or 460s) then the heat sink couldn't keep up with them and the lifespan would be decreased.

^^ this is typical of a PAR type lamp. They might be 3W LEDs but that doesn't mean they run them full-out, because they know that doing so will significantly decrease lifespan, as the heat sinks on these fixtures are pretty minimal. So they knock the current back, keep the heat down, but still sell them like they are full power "triple the output of 1W" <- calling BS on that statement.

I will say though that running a DR (660) at 500mA will get you pretty good output. I would say overall, that's a decent lamp. Just gotta know what you're getting, that's all. Almost every company plays the marketing card.

niladride
06/07/2016, 04:19 AM
Hi Floyd,

This one? For 80 square inches coverage?

http://www.ebay.in/itm/271970060883?euid=4851009fbce0430a90dafb44af66f2ee&bu=43795999098&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu

Floyd R Turbo
06/07/2016, 10:02 AM
Those are all SMD 5730 (SMD = surface mounted device) and if you google that you'll see those are 0.5W chips not 1W chips to this manufacturer has no knowledge what they are selling. That's not a 90W lamp, it's 45W at best and that's at full current. Most of those SMD chips have an absolute maximum forward current of 200-300mA so that's not a ton of power, hence why you can group them so tight and put them on a cheap heat sink, they just don't generate a lot of heat = not much punch.

Might do well for a screen sized between 4x4 and 6x6. For a 9x9 screen, maybe...I think it's too small. It might work OK, but you could get spotty growth - a hotspot in the middle with brighter green to yellow, possibly a dead spot if it was too close, then a ring of nice green growth that produces pretty well, and as you got further away it would go to a darker green growth.

From some spec sheets, Vf is nominally 3.2, current is ~250mA = 0.8W but that's when you push it, my guess is in a stock fixture it's kept to 0.5W so that means that lamp is 45W at best.

That all being said, it matches up with recommendations

http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/lighting-led.html

80 sq in -> 40W actual per side, it's the form factor that affects this, and the "punch" level delivered by SMD LEDs. Form factor being that it's a tight array which means if it's too close, it'll photosaturate, and if it's too far away (to get the spread/coverage you want) then it won't be intense enough. There is probably a sweet spot. For the punch factor, the SMDs are not very directional compared to 1W or 3W domed/lensed LEDs which are (a bit more). So the further away you get, the much wider the spread and you lose intensity.

Overall, I would say worth a try but just be aware that placement is gong to be key and it might limit the overall capacity due to the above

Horace
06/07/2016, 12:26 PM
Do we have a specific fixture that is considered the best performance and value identified yet? I was at a reef club members house the other day and he's using two Chinese black boxes with only the white LEDs running. He's getting pretty impressive growth, and those are not super expensive. Are there better options?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

FF337
06/07/2016, 12:46 PM
While I didn't start this thread I would like to see it more focused on just the light fixtures, info, reviews, etc...instead of this thread turning into another general Algae Scrubber Q&A thread, FF337 I'll post a reply for yours over there

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420

niladride

"7 red, 3 dark red and 2 blue LEDs this grow light emits light on 660nm, 630nm and 460nm wave lengths"

this is a plant growth light, which doesn't necessarily make it an algae scrubber light. 630s are much more intense than 660s, but the fixture lists 600mA drive current so you could do worse.

However you will need 4 of these per side for a 12x10 screen just based on coverage, usually the PAR type floodlights are adequate for about a 6x6 area. You might do 2x/side maybe, the issue with the 630s is that you'll likely have to back them off a bit to find the sweet spot where they don't photosaturate. Also you could probably remove the bezel on that fixture and take the lenses off, which would spread the light out more.

I would revisit the screen size first.

These lights are growing the algae very well already. I have a 8"x13.5" screen. One light on each side has the screen covered in algae already.

Horace
06/07/2016, 01:14 PM
Deleted

niladride
06/08/2016, 07:40 AM
Those are all SMD 5730 (SMD = surface mounted device) and if you google that you'll see those are 0.5W chips not 1W chips to this manufacturer has no knowledge what they are selling. That's not a 90W lamp, it's 45W at best and that's at full current. Most of those SMD chips have an absolute maximum forward current of 200-300mA so that's not a ton of power, hence why you can group them so tight and put them on a cheap heat sink, they just don't generate a lot of heat = not much punch.

Might do well for a screen sized between 4x4 and 6x6. For a 9x9 screen, maybe...I think it's too small. It might work OK, but you could get spotty growth - a hotspot in the middle with brighter green to yellow, possibly a dead spot if it was too close, then a ring of nice green growth that produces pretty well, and as you got further away it would go to a darker green growth.

From some spec sheets, Vf is nominally 3.2, current is ~250mA = 0.8W but that's when you push it, my guess is in a stock fixture it's kept to 0.5W so that means that lamp is 45W at best.

That all being said, it matches up with recommendations

http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/lighting-led.html

80 sq in -> 40W actual per side, it's the form factor that affects this, and the "punch" level delivered by SMD LEDs. Form factor being that it's a tight array which means if it's too close, it'll photosaturate, and if it's too far away (to get the spread/coverage you want) then it won't be intense enough. There is probably a sweet spot. For the punch factor, the SMDs are not very directional compared to 1W or 3W domed/lensed LEDs which are (a bit more). So the further away you get, the much wider the spread and you lose intensity.

Overall, I would say worth a try but just be aware that placement is gong to be key and it might limit the overall capacity due to the above

I have asked the seller and he said its 25-28 real wattage. Also the red is 650 nm not 660 nm. A couple of those for one sided 80-100 sq inches? As leds are costly, I do not want to make any error at the very beginning.

Got link for these:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/311608709915?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Red 660 nm and blue 445 nm, but wattage is quite low, 18 watts rated true watt may be less than 8 watts.

And these:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/301879398022?var=600690241462&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

But I cannot find wavelength specifications for the same.

And these:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/381517583839?var=650628327767&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Mixture of 660 and 630 :(

And these:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/351730755578?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Red 650 , blue 450

And this:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/191848433786?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Not sure about the wavelengths though.

And this:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/351730956286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Red 650, blue 450

Also this one:

http://www.ebay.in/itm/271912436034?var=570747650437&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I want to pick any of these, which one should be best and I do not want to buy more than a couple.

Floyd R Turbo
06/08/2016, 08:55 AM
I can't see the detail on any of those because my anti-virus is throwing a phishing warning.

niladride
06/08/2016, 09:18 AM
^

Lol

xD

I am viewing from my office and they are not throwing any error here. Office networks are more stringent and protective particularly to allow access. You need new antivirus :D

Floyd R Turbo
06/08/2016, 09:31 AM
Kaspersky. Hasn't ever failed me personally.

niladride
06/08/2016, 11:59 AM
It's great. Office uses McAfee

hkgar
06/08/2016, 03:38 PM
I am using one of these lighs on each side of my 7x9 inch screen. Photo period is 8 hours and lamps are two inches from the screen.

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-waterproof-tomatoes-hydroponics-Greenhouse/dp/B00WG6G9SI?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s0

Growth over 8 days

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409/hkgar1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171826_zpsnl3ncqf4.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/hkgar1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171826_zpsnl3ncqf4.jpg.html)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409/hkgar1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171843_zps8a80va9a.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/hkgar1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171843_zps8a80va9a.jpg.html)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409/hkgar1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171913_zps4sarqoox.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/hkgar1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_171913_zps4sarqoox.jpg.html)

5.5 Ounces
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409/hkgar1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_172301_zpsbcfqt6iz.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/hkgar1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/20160608_172301_zpsbcfqt6iz.jpg.html)

niladride
06/08/2016, 10:12 PM
This light uses red 620-630?

niladride
06/09/2016, 03:49 AM
Please can anyone check the links of my previous post and see if you are getting any anti virus warnings? I am not sure how to show the lights to Floyd.

:(

niladride
06/09/2016, 04:26 AM
Hi Floyd,

Can you check this one please?

http://www.ebay.in/itm/272137860471?euid=665766e4c376497fae37b0ba838930d2&bu=43795999098&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu

hkgar
06/09/2016, 06:07 AM
This light uses red 620-630?

630 I believe
and 460 blue

Floyd R Turbo
06/09/2016, 08:56 AM
Hi Floyd,

Can you check this one please?

http://www.ebay.in/itm/272137860471?euid=665766e4c376497fae37b0ba838930d2&bu=43795999098&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu

That one does not throw a warning

niladride
06/09/2016, 09:04 AM
^

Lol not warning, about the light

:D

Floyd R Turbo
06/09/2016, 09:13 AM
Sorry, yes, that light has been used by many people, some have reported that it fries after continued exposure to moisture though so it's not very water-resistant, so don't "push it" with that fixture. Also scattered reports of bad customer service, incorrect configuration for custom requests, etc, nothing you don't expect out of China (which is where most of these fixtures come from). But if you get a good one, it should do you well

niladride
06/09/2016, 09:41 AM
^

Now I am not sure which one is good and which one is bad. Previously it was around wavelength only, now also moisture and water resistant thing added up.

:(

All the cheap leds are not water proof I guess, you have something in mind from ebay.co.uk/.com that I can buy? I have searched locally but led grow lights are unavailable here.

:(