Alkalinity not moving?

[golferbud101691]

In my 90 gallon, I have a mixture of sps, lps, mushrooms, and soft corals. I started to experience some stn with my sps and read up on alkalinity and sps. At that time, I was running my alk at 9.8 to help keep my ph in the 8.2 range(now i know not to do that). Now, about 4 weeks later, I have reduced to no alkalinity dosing and my alkalinity is stable at 8.4..but how can that be..that means corals aren't consuming alkalinity..which means there is no growth..right?? I don't understand why/how this is happening. Water changes are 15% every 2 weeks and fsw is testing at 7.5. Using reef crystals salt. Ca is 450 and mg is 1400. Any ideas?

[bertoni]

Hmm, the only common stealth sources of alkalinity are pH buffers, which all add alkalinity despite any advertising, and tap water. Other than that, I'd get a second opinion on the test kit. There might not be much growth, but that seems suspicious to me.

[golferbud101691]

Hmm, the only common stealth sources of alkalinity are pH buffers, which all add alkalinity despite any advertising, and tap water. Other than that, I'd get a second opinion on the test kit. There might not be much growth, but that seems suspicious to me.



That is with the Red Sea pro kit and I double checked with my regular Red Sea kit. No ph buffers are being added to the tank.

[nuttyd]

Interesting. Just ran into a problem with my red sea test this past week. been having slight stn on some sps and have increased dosing. Alk wasnt moving. Said it was holding at 7.8. Had a lfs double check. Using salifert tests they had the alk at 6.8. I am beginning to think that the Red Sea KH test is a little too subjective and this throws the numbers off.

[bertoni]

I'm not sure what's happening, but I wouldn't worry all that much as long as the animals seem to be healthy.

[golferbud101691]

Interesting. Just ran into a problem with my red sea test this past week. been having slight stn on some sps and have increased dosing. Alk wasnt moving. Said it was holding at 7.8. Had a lfs double check. Using salifert tests they had the alk at 6.8. I am beginning to think that the Red Sea KH test is a little too subjective and this throws the numbers off.

Very interesting. Sounds like my problem. My sps has some stn going on. I always get readings of 8.4 and never lower. I'm 100% sure I'm doing the test correctly too because I've watched the videos as well as the vivid aquariums videos. I thought it was human error at first.

[golferbud101691]

I'm not sure what's happening, but I wouldn't worry all that much as long as the animals seem to be healthy.

Some stn on some sps along with lack of coloration..freaks me out.

[nuttyd]

if you have access to a lfs that uses salifert or another test, try having them double check the alk. Either that or buy another brand test and check. Maybe the test kits had bad reagent.

[bertoni]

The lack of calcium and alkalinity consumption might be due to the RTN problems. Hard to say. I might try a PolyFilter and some water changes. Has the lighting changed or are the bulbs old?

[golferbud101691]

The lack of calcium and alkalinity consumption might be due to the RTN problems. Hard to say. I might try a PolyFilter and some water changes. Has the lighting changed or are the bulbs old?

Lighting has changed slightly. I added some sps frags to the system and went from 70% intensity on my 360's to 60% just to be safe..but that was 2 weeks ago. Not sure if that could make an impact?..

[bertoni]

I don't think that should cause RTN. There might have been a disease or pest on the frags, I suppose, but I don't know how likely that is.

[golferbud101691]

Dip? Run carbon? I haven't been running carbon. Only gfo for 12 hrs a day. It's the only way I can keep my phosphate above 0. My refugium does more work for me than I ever expected.

[moatdaddy]

Reef crystals has a mix alkalinity of 13. Why I stopped using it. What if your bumping .5 each water change and that is your two week burn ratio. Food for thought.

[golferbud101691]

Reef crystals has a mix alkalinity of 13. Why I stopped using it. What if your bumping .5 each water change and that is your two week burn ratio. Food for thought.

Thanks moatdaddy. I'll check the alk tomorrow when I make up some new salt water. You could be right though! Makes perfect sense. Do you have a suggestion if it comes out high like you say?..

[moatdaddy]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I would test alk in your system before change and then after. IMO and that is all this is, stability is key. If your swinging alk around may be time to buy a lower alk salt and then just drip dose alk based on consumption. Also I have Hanna phos, alk, calcium testers. Of the 3 alkalinity will always be done by hanna checkers. Not sold on other two nearly as much. I test alkalinity in less than a minute and get a part per million readout. Love it.

[golferbud101691]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I would test alk in your system before change and then after. IMO and that is all this is, stability is key. If your swinging alk around may be time to buy a lower alk salt and then just drip dose alk based on consumption. Also I have Hanna phos, alk, calcium testers. Of the 3 alkalinity will always be done by hanna checkers. Not sold on other two nearly as much. I test alkalinity in less than a minute and get a part per million readout. Love it.

hmm after seeing that chart, I'm tempted to use instant ocean now and boost the ca and mg just a little. seems like i remember mike paletta saying something about that. I'd like to get my alk down to 8 or slightly lower. Ive read that alk is healthier for sps since its closer to natural sea water.

[moatdaddy]

Good luck. After you decide on your course of action do a separate write up with initial cause and results. Hopefully it may help someone else.

[bertoni]

I might dip the corals and add a bit of carbon, but I am the cautious sort.

[moatdaddy]

+1. Dip and run some carbon. Mine weren't growing and it was aefw. From a big name online place I mistakenly trusted.

I am not sure what carbon does for pest if anything but I run it sporadic to strip unwanted stuff.

[golferbud101691]

+1. Dip and run some carbon. Mine weren't growing and it was aefw. From a big name online place I mistakenly trusted.

I am not sure what carbon does for pest if anything but I run it sporadic to strip unwanted stuff.

Thats very interesting. It could be some aefw. I dip my corals in coral rx before they enter the system, but we all know they can slip by. Ill do some research and see. Can they cause stn/rtn?

[golferbud101691]

+1. Dip and run some carbon. Mine weren't growing and it was aefw. From a big name online place I mistakenly trusted.

I am not sure what carbon does for pest if anything but I run it sporadic to strip unwanted stuff.


Also, as fast as corals are showing signs of distress, I think you maybe right. I did dip one of the affected corals coral rx and didn't see any aefw...

[bertoni]

The carbon can remove organic toxins, which sometimes cause problems. It also remove copper that is bound to organics, which can be helpful as well.

[golferbud101691]

I am leaning toward a bacterial infection now. There are no signs of aefw and I have dipped most of the sps that seems affected. The other thing that makes it look like a bacteria infection or something in the water is I accidently hit a birds nest while cleaning. The colony basically bleached, well 80% of it. It's coming back slowly, but has anyone have opinions?

[bertoni]

I don't think I can help more with this problem. Coral infections and problems can be hard to diagnose.

[moatdaddy]

Photos, for the love of all that is good. We want photos. Or a link to build thread works too.

current parameters also. You burning alkalinity yet? I test daily. I let my phospates climb and my alkalinity slowed. Why I checked phosphates. Put in phosgaurd. Phosphates dropped. Alkalinity consumption increased.

Hopefully bertoni can shed some light on how frequent he tests and when he tests extra.

[golferbud101691]

Green slimer

[golferbud101691]

Birds nest I was talking about. Sorry for the blue. It's morning.

[golferbud101691]

Alk:9.3
Mg: 1400
Ca:430
Phos: reading 0, but I have a little hair algea so it's a touch above 0

[bertoni]

The birds nest seems to be having problems, and I don't know whether it will make it. I'm not an expert on that type of coral. I wouldn't count on it surviving.

[golferbud101691]

Would you recommend taking the couple affected corals out and moving them to my other tank?

[bertoni]

That's a tough call. The shock of the move might kill them, and any infection they have might already have spread. If the other tank has better conditions, that might help, though.

[golferbud101691]

Well, the other tank is a mushroom tank, but I could turn the lights up. The more I think about it, I'm going to loose some of my sps anyway..I'm scared of whatever it is spreading. I've dipped both corals as well.

[golferbud101691]

I really don't know anymore. The more I read, the more it points back to alkalinity, then some stuff points to some type of infection. I have no clue at this point. I'm thinking at this point, I will leave everything as is and try to get my alk closer to natural seawater and see what happens over the next few weeks. Also, step up the gfo so the hair algea will be basically gone.

[moatdaddy]

Yea. I think your on the right track. Maintain stability. Truck on through. I recommend a second test for alkalinity and maybe grab a fresh frag after a week. Monitor it closely. I would buy from local reefer or store. I like to tinker though.

[moatdaddy]

Nooo I tabbed over and it erased everything I wrote, first time that's happened. Short version.

Buy second alkalinity test type. After your certain parameters are stable try again with another frag and monitor.

Photos. Try photo bucket. I take photo, open app hit upload. Then copy while i am on laptop tablet or phone here in the box. Super easy and no size limiting.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/moatdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_153935.jpg (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/moatdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_153935.jpg.html)

This guy showed up as eggs.

[golferbud101691]

Nooo I tabbed over and it erased everything I wrote, first time that's happened. Short version.

Buy second alkalinity test type. After your certain parameters are stable try again with another frag and monitor.

Photos. Try photo bucket. I take photo, open app hit upload. Then copy while i am on laptop tablet or phone here in the box. Super easy and no size limiting.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/moatdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_153935.jpg (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/moatdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_153935.jpg.html)

This guy showed up as eggs.

cool! yeah that alk number has been confirmed with 3 different test kits: red sea, red sea pro, and salifert. all are showing the exact same number.

[moatdaddy]

Alright well I'm subscribed and following along. I think your on top of things and maybe its a critter that comes out at night or an infection.