A pair of EcoWheel tanks in the making

[Putawaywet]

Hi everyone,

I know questions about the Eco-Wheel based filtration system seem to pop up here from time to time, but from what I can gather, there are only a small handfull of people on this board who actually have one.

So, I thought it might be worthwhile to offer a little feedback on this lesser-known system from someone who has recently set one up. Something along the lines of a written chronicle from inception, through the first year or so of operation.

If nothing else, my ramblings might offer a small diversion from the usual repetative fare that traverses our doorstep on a day-to-day basis.

Hopefully, I’ll not only be able to keep my objectivity and offer an unbiased opinion, but also provide a little documentation on this rather unique system.

But before I get started, I want to be up front and say that I have no affiliation with the manufacturer beyond that of a customer, nor am I financially benefitting in any way from what I am posting here.

So, without further delay.........

[Putawaywet]

For those of you that are unfamilar with an Eco-Wheel, here is a brief overview:

Eco-Wheel, by design, is an ‘algae scrubber’ based system designed by a company called Aquatic Engineers, Inc. According to their website, A.E.I. was established in 1998 to provide “integrated environmental planning, consulting and design engineering services.”

The Eco-Wheel unit consists of either a 1/2” or 3/4” thick acrylic tank that contains a large rotating PVC wheel on which various species of algaes are cultivated for the purpose of water filtration.

Once installed, the filter operates on an equalibrium which necessitates that the unit be mounted at a specified level placing it slightly higher than that of your aquarium. It does however, allow for remote installations. You could easily place the filter in another room and route the pipes through the wall.

The design incorporates a large air uplift entering from below that floods the chamber with a churning mixture of air and water. This air/water interaction is so great that a protein skimmer-like foam actually developes on the surface of the water within the filter. This large volume of rising air also becomes trapped under the paddles on the wheel, causing it to slowly rotate. A twin 96w quad PC light fixture sits on top of the tank and illuminates the upper portion of the rotating wheel. This allows the algae to be exposed to an alternating mix of frothy, nutrient rich water and light.

The surge action within the aquarium is accomplished through a hollow chamber inside of the wheel that picks up water during each rotation and then deposits it back into the filter several times a minute. This causes a uniform rising and lowering of the water level within the filter that is then transferred to the aquarium through the attached piping.

The part that is most intriguing about this process is that the entire operation is accomplished by a single air pump - there are no additional powerheads or pumps required.

The Bioballs that you see definitely envoke visions reminiscent of wet/dry filters, but they remain submerged at all times, and their primary function is to act as a baffle, preventing microbubbles from being returned to the aquarium. But in all fairness, the Bioballs are constantly bathed in a flow of oxygen saturated water, so I’m sure there is most likely some level of biological filtration occuring in spite of their intended use.

When the sytem is operating it flows approx 20 gpm/1200gph via an approx 8” wide wave of water that enters the aquarium from a specially designed enfluent box. This incoming water is then supplemented by the periodic surging that adds a boost of additional water to your tank several times a minute.

And that’s basically it in a nutshell. I know this is an overly simplified description, but hopefully, it will give you a general idea of how this thing works.

[Putawaywet]

Here is the big delivery day back in June. Everything arrived compliments of FedEx Fast Freight - 5 pallets in all. It took nearly 6 hours for me to break it all down and get everything sorted out.

The complete system is over 8” long and almost 7’ tall, and in order to get everything to fit through interior doors the cabinetry had to be built as 5 seperate assemblies that would then be bolted together once everything was in place.

[Putawaywet]

And here is everything assembled and in it’s final location in the living room.

The overall system was designed to my specifications by Aquatic Engineers, but the tanks and stands were actually sub’d out to ******* and a company named Critterwoods/Reef Tectonics

The tank on the left measures 48x30x30 and is the future home of my existing 90 gal mixed reef that I set up back in 1995.

The tank on the right measures 24x30x30 and is tentatively destined to be a low-light, filter feeding type of setup. I’m looking to house animals from areas where the lighting is more subdued, and non-photosynthetic organisms thrive. Hopefully, this will allow me to experiment with some of the more colorful gorgonians, sponges and tunicates. If things go well, I may even expand upon that to include some members from the family Scleronephthya.

The center section basically houses the filter. It measures 24”w x 7’ tall. And yes, it has already been suggested that I put a door knob and doorbell on the thing just for laughs. I requested that the center section be built slighty taller and slightly more forward of the two ends to try and break up the visual lines a little. I felt that having two tanks of unequal length that were built into one custom cabinet would give the thing a lopsided appearance. I decided it was best to work with the asymetrical design, rather than against it.

[Putawaywet]

One of the early problems that I found myself dealing with was the apparent lack of a cabinet interior. I was pretty much expecting smooth plywood or something similar, and the open studs caught me a bit by surprise. I originally kicked around the thought of adding some plywood and a couple coats of paint, but quickly scrapped that idea knowing that I probably wasn’t going to be overly excited by the finished product. I was forced to rethink my design.

[Putawaywet]

I came up with the idea of fabricating individual carpeted panels out of 1/4” plywood, complete with sectional electrical track and outlets. It turned out to be quite a project given the number and overall size of my cabinets, but it was still considerably easier than spending countless hours upside down trying to install everything from the inside out.

The pre-built panels were then installed and secured inside the cabinets relatively quickly using my trusty nail gun. Once everything was in place I pulled the wiring, hooked up the GFI outlets, and covered everything up. I’ll admit to initially being a little hesitant about using carpeting, especially after many years of dealing with salt creep and water spills, but surprisingly, I think it turned out to be well worth the extra effort.

[Putawaywet]

Here is the near finished product. As you can see there is no sump, skimmer, refugium - nothing. Basically the space is mine to do with as I please.

The plumbing is pretty straight forward. I added labels on the pipes for ease of indentification by friends and family in my absence. I also took the liberty of substituting the included PVC elbows for ABS sweeps in the hopes of increasing the efficiency of the plumbing.

The line coming out of the filter splits into two pipes that connect to the aquarium. Ballvalves are used to adjust the flow between the two sides of the tank. The water enters the tank via enfluent boxes or what I refer to as “reverse overflow boxes” Basically, a box is mounted in each rear corner at a 45 degree angle and the water overflows from these boxes in a waterfall type of arrangement. On the upper front portion of these boxes is a sliding gate that changes the size and shape of the opening. If you adjust the gate to it’s highest point, water flows under it and sends a horizontal type of wave across the surface of the tank. If you adjust the gate so it is at a lower position, water flows over the top and enters the tank at more of a downward angle. Optimally, you want the gates adjusted so water is flowing on a horizontal plane with the periodic surge coming up and over the gate to mix up the flow.

[Putawaywet]

Here is the cabinet area for the smaller tank on the right - plenty of room over here to stash goodies such as a possible future calcium reactor, RO makeup device, or even my ever-expanding library of favorite saltwater authors.

[Putawaywet]

Here is where all the action begins. This is the airlift assembly under the Eco-Wheel filter. The return lines from both tanks come together into a “Tee” at the base of the airlift. From there water is drawn upwards from the nearly 4cfm of air that is provided from the 120w air pump.

Directly behind the uplift is the “supply” line which is also “Tee’d” to direct the water to both tanks

The overall noise generated from this system is quite minimal for a something of this size. With the cabinet doors closed you can just barely hear the sound of air and water rushing up the airlift and the occaisonal “thump-whoosh” as the wheel dumps it’s load of water. The family can easily sit and enjoy an evening of televison without being distracted by the tanks.

I’d like to take this opportunity to give credit to a fellow RC’er by the name of “Piercho” who was kind enough to post a step by step thread in the DIY section on airlifts. His ‘how-to’ describes how he was able to increase airlift efficiency through a custom designed do-hickey he calls an ‘air ring injector’ Basically, a series of equally spaced holes are drilled around the perimeter of the airlift to more evenly distribute the injection of air into the pipe. This perferated section of pipe is then sealed inside of an outer chamber constructed from a larger diameter of pipe and a pair of adapter bushings. To this outer pipe a hose fitting is installed and an air pump attached. When the pump is on, the outer chamber is pressurized and in turn feeds the uplift through the drilled holes. When the pump is off, the outer chamber is flooded with water. According to his tests, the more uniform distribution of air, coupled with the absence of an air nipple protruding into the uplift, increases the efficiency considerably.

It was this very article that inspired me to incorporate his design into the airlift on my Eco-Wheel. Hopefully, with this change, as well as the use of the ABS sweeps, I was able to squeeze a little more flow out of my system.

One thing to note, is that with any air pump and air line, one has to be cautious of back-siphoning water from the tank that could damage the pump. Behind the Eco-Wheel filter there is a pair of 3/4” pvc pipes running up and above the tops of the tanks approx 12”. If power is lost, the airline can back-siphon only to the level even with my tanks. When power is restored, the pipes are repressurized and the airline is purged.

In all actuallity, this very scenario plays out once every 24 hours. In my attempts to try and reduce the amount of calcium buildup at the air injection site, I have connected the pump to a timer controlled outlet. Each morning at 7am the system shuts down for 15 minutes to flood the air ring injector assembly, and hopefully, slow the calcification process.

And that clear section of PVC pipe on the uplift? Well, I decided it wasn’t any fun to have all this interesting stuff going on if you couldn’t see it happening. I think it adds a little more interest to everything. My cat seems to agree, she appears to facinated by the rising bubbles.

[Putawaywet]

I decided that this was the time to try out some lighting that I've had my eye on for a little while now. The actual final decisions were made from the discussions and information obtained right here on the board.

Main tank lighting consists of a pair of Reef Optix III 250 DE pendants mounted into the canopy along with 4x48" T5 flourescents overdriven with an IceCap 660 ballast. Currently I'm running a pair of Ushio 10k's with 2 Atinic T5's and 2 Blue Plus T5's.

The combo seems to give a really good spread of light, and except for it being a little too white for my liking, I'm quite happy with the setup.

A pair of 13w PC's with 50/50 combo bulbs are also in place to serve as my early morning and late evening transitional lighting.

I also installed a pair of 12" cold cathode tubes to serve as my nightime lighting.

[Putawaywet]

One of the things I noticed about my existing algae filter is that the eggcrate under the algae screens became packed with bristle worms, sponges and tube worms. So, taking some cues from Steve Tyree and his research with cryptic zones, I decided to modify my Eco-Wheel somewhat (Apparently, I just can’t leave well enough alone) by installing several stacked layers of black eggcrate in the lower portion of the filter. The exterior of the acrylic cabinet was then painted black to reduce light imput, and a special plastic woven material called “Matala” was installed in the very bottom of the filter. It is my hopes that the Matala will function as a refuge and aid in the cultivation of Zooplankton, and the eggcrate will provide a surface for filter feeders to settle. I’m not sure this is exactly what Steve had in mind when he described a “high flow, filter feeder zone” in his book, but I had to work within the confines of the unit’s design, and this is what I was able to come up with.

If it works, I’ve got a functioning POM (particulate organic matter) filter. If it doesn’t, I’ve got a giant detritus magnet.

I guess only time will tell.

[Putawaywet]

I filled the tank on 08/20/03 and threw the switch. Everything came to life with not so much as a drip from any of the 50+ plumbing connections. (Guess Mr. Murphy must have been visiting someone else that day)

I had previously added 80 lbs of dry CaribSea Tahitian black sand mixed with 15 lbs of Aragonite dry to achieve a salt and pepper type of look. This created a sandbed of approx 1”-2” in depth. (No DSB for this guy and I’ll save that discussion for another thread) My plans were to add just enough sand for my gobies to be happy, but still allow for manageable husbandry practices through periodic hydrovac’ing.

A few days later A.E. had Inland Aquatics drop ship a couple of seeded algae screens to jump start the process.

[Putawaywet]

And here is the wheel a few weeks later. You can see how the green stuff is beginning to spread, as well as the foam that is sitting atop the algae during the rotation.

Harvesting is pretty simple, you just scrape as you see fit once a week (or vacuum with a wet/dry ???) and remove the algae as your main nutrient export. Eventually all exposed surfaces will become covered with algae. According to Aquatic Engineers, the wheel is capable of supporting tanks up to 300 gallons.

The design of the wheel is incredibly solid -1/4" gray PVC with teflon bearings. It takes a pretty good amount of effort to lift it. When combined with the acrylic cabinet it requires 2 people to lift the whole thing into place.

FWIW, I was already a fan of algae filters in general, long before I stumbled upon this setup, so it fit right in with my thoughts on reef tank filtration.

[Putawaywet]

Next, I added the base rock "structure" which I had built several weeks prior. I say structure, because I actually layed out my basic reef design using 150lbs of dry base rock obtained from "Capt Jerr" over at Reefer Rocks. Using Portland brand quick-cure cement, and a few days of my time, I assembled my reef not unlike a giant jigsaw puzzle. Several hours were spent turning and fitting various rocks together until I had achieved the exact look that I wanted. This gave me a base that was not only crafted to my specifications, but basically solid as.... well... a rock !!!! After many years, the day had finally come that I would be free of teetering rocks and precariously balanced corals.

The attached pic shows two distinct structures that I assembled out of 4 individual sections, constructed from several dozen rocks. Using this method I was able to build the largest possible sections that would fit through the top of my tank, and still “lock” everything together to form what you see here.

Additionally, I decided early on that I wanted a very open look to my reef structure. Not only did I want to model a small patch reef in an Indo-Pacific lagoon type environment, but I am a huge fan of the "Zen" aquascaping style favored by the Japanese aquarists.

[Putawaywet]

By building my own structure I was able to create lot’s of caves and pass-thru’s for my fish and inverts. I was even able to incorporate several openings around the base for my trio of Engineer gobies to use once they move in.

For those of you that are sticklers for following directions, I’ll confess to curing the rocks for a mere 7 days in a freshwater bath before placing them in the tank. I figured the small amount of cement, coupled with my large volume of water in the system would balance each other out in regard to the elevated pH. Besides, I gave myself an “out’ by rationalizing that there really wasn’t anything in the tank to kill if I misjudged my abbreviated curing process. It seemed to work pretty darn well, the pH never climbed above 8.2 after I added the rocks to the tank.

But still, where would we be without legal disclaimers? So just let me add..... friends don’t try these same shortcuts at home (LOL)

[Putawaywet]

Throughout the cycling process I continued adding water from my existing tank at the rate of approx. 2 litres a day. I didn’t bother testing the water during the first few weeks for the basic reasoning that I KNEW Mother Nature would do her thing, and I just had too much going on to play the part of the cook waiting for the kettle to boil.

By the start of the third week I began to see a light growth of algae taking hold on various places of the wheel. One thing worth mentioning is that the wheel turns at approx 2 rpm’s, but does so in kind of an unbalanced manner. That is, as the wheel is picking up water it slows to a near crawl, then increases speed as gravity carries the heavier portion over the top. This creates a situation where one side of the wheel grows algae faster than the other due to various areas having a longer contact time with the lighting. It doesn’t appear to be a problem, It’s just the way it works.

On 09/08/03, 19 days from startup, I finally grabbed my Salifert test kits and decided to see how things were doing. NO2=0.5, NO3=0.1 and NO4=0.5 .....Things were looking good.

At this point I decided to ....GASP! ....start moving livestock over from my existing tank. Mind you, I would never advocate jumping into something such as this, but being an algae filter guy for the last 4 or 5 years I feel that I have a pretty good idea of their abilities and limitations. Besides, I was growing extremely curious as to how hard I could push the envelope and was willing to take a few risks to see what this thing was really capable of. The only difficult decision was the one of which corals were to be my guinea pigs. I knew there were definitely some inherent risks and wanted to select something that I’ve had relative good luck with. I selected 1 small LPS bubble, and 3 medium gorgonian frags. Much to my relief, 30 minutes after acclimation and transfer, all corals were open and looking pretty well adjusted.

From this point forward I continued testing water on or about every couple of days, while simultaneously moving rock and livestock. I limited myself to 5-10 lbs of rock, and 2 or 3 corals per day just to ensure I didn’t get too carried away.

[Putawaywet]

And here is the tank as it looked on 10/02/03. Exactly 6 weeks and a day from startup. It’s definitely taken me by surprise that I have been able to progress this quickly. I certainly don’t advocate this avenue to others, and I am by no means encouraging anyone to follow my approach. The idea all along was to test the limits of the system, and I must say, I have been pleasantly surprised.

The influent boxes are the angled sections of acrylic in each rear corner. The incoming water rolls across the surface where it mixes in the upper front center. From there it swirls downward before splitting left and right again near the sandbed. I deliberately left a generous amount of room around the rocks, and the water flow naturally travels a path around both ends before circuling rearward where it meets before being drawn out by the center overflow and sent back to the filter.

I've added a few more things since these pics were taken, and will try to get some current shots up in a few days. I also have a few corals left in the old tank that have yet to be moved, but mostly it is stuff that is attached to some larger pieces of rock that I have no plans to add.

So, other than those last pieces, some smaller stuff to fill in here and there and the unforseen “coral buy of a lifetime”, I think I’m about done on this end........ if there is such a thing

[Putawaywet]

Another angle

[Putawaywet]

And a closeup.....

[Putawaywet]

I just had to sneak this one in here....

A closeup of one of my more favorite accusitions. I think the color is pretty dead on.

[Putawaywet]

And last but not least, here are things down at the other end. I have just begun playing with the layout and will be working on things in the upcoming months.

Obviously, the inhabitants of this tank are going to need a little more than the normal TLC so I plan on taking things just a little slower than the pace I have currently kept.

Right now I'm thinking of a rock pinnacle that reaches from the sandbed to the surface. Kind of a deep rock wall with filter feeding corals growing outward into the currents.

[Putawaywet]

I guess that's about all for now.

In a day or two I'll be adding updates with the status of things over the last couple weeks.

Until then...... Happy reefing :)

Brett

[ctenophore]

beautiful, Brett.

and all powered by a single airpump. that's amazing. i'm bookmarking this thread for future reference when i set up a new algaefilter tank in the coming years.

[picture the reef]

Brett, Great thread! I am also running an Eco-Wheel setup started the middle of July.

[MarkS]

I like the concept of the Eco-Wheel, but the sticker shock is enough to give one a heart attack!

[derrikd]

cool

[picture the reef]

MarkS, I do get the idea we are still paying for the R&D on this system. However once you consider this is a complete system and you add up the price of a first rate system with skimmer, top end pumps, refugium, etc. the cost seems a little more reasonable. There are still plenty of add on toys though, such as top off system, calcium reator, etc. etc.:D

[ctenophore]

the elegance of the design is also something to consider. looking under Brett's stand and not seeing a jumble of boxes, salt-encrusted hoses and wires is worth something IMO.

[MarkS]

Originally posted by picture the reef
MarkS, I do get the idea we are still paying for the R&D on this system. However once you consider this is a complete system and you add up the price of a first rate system with skimmer, top end pumps, refugium, etc. the cost seems a little more reasonable. There are still plenty of add on toys though, such as top off system, calcium reator, etc. etc.:D

I agree completely! It is a proven system that combines all of the filtration and water movement devices currently used on reef tanks into one compact unit. I just know that after working with acrylic and PVC plate that the price of the unit itself is about 100x higher than the price of the parts and labor. That's assuming that they are not buying the parts in bulk, which I am sure they are.

I have to admit that I have yet to see a terrible tank running an Eco-Wheel and that says something. It's just not for everyone.

[lil_mikey69]

Forgive the newb, but what does a system like that run? Your setup looks ULTRA smooth.

[picture the reef]

Expect to give 3K for just the Eco-Wheel. I went with custom Oceanic tank with Starfire glass. Take a look at my current tank section. Get ready to open the wallet.:D

[lil_mikey69]

Wowza. Thats a bit of coin. But, when you consider not having to buy all sorts of other pumps and protein skimmers I bet it really is about as cheap, if not cheaper.

[picture the reef]

That's what I thought. Plus with using an air driven system there are no pumps or conventional skimmer to destroy the "good critters".:)

[skylsdale]

This is what I'm talking about! :eek:

First of all, I just heard about this whole EcoWheel thing a few days ago--I love it! I need to look into it more, but I'm loving how an ATS has finally been incorporated into such a smooth little operation.

All that aside, Putawaywet you have no idea how close your setup is to my dream system! You all can take your 500 gal tanks (they all look the same anyway), but I've had the dual coral head/deep-water system in my head for a while now (complete with some sort of psuedo cryptic zone and everything!). I just never thought of combining the two into one complete system. Everything just looks great in there. As for the deep-water side, if you can get the flow right, it will absolutely rock. I would suggest piling the rock clear up out of the water if you can, to help make it appear as if the structure continues right on up out of the field of view. Throw a pair of Fathead/Sunburst anthias in there for me!

Man..this is great. I'm going to have to live vicariously through you for a while, so keep the updates coming!

[AuroraDave]

Can you include a few pics of the influent boxes showing how the water enters the 2 tanks? Does it create a surge effect with the acrylic guard lowered?
Thanks

[Putawaywet]

Hi everyone,

I'm glad there seems to be some interest and hopefully you were able to follow along without too much trouble.

Also, thanks for the kind words it really makes all the effort worth it.

Here's a couple pics of the water coming out of the influent boxes.

The surge is not exactly dependent on the sliding gate being all the way down - it will suge regardless of it's position.

The way it is supposed to work is the gate is adusted so the normal flow comes in under, and the surge flows over.

If you slide the gate up.... the flow comes out more horizontal. If you adjust it down, the flow is more like a waterfall with everything going over the top.

However, that's easier said than done on my system as I have 3 influent boxes between the 2 tanks. As soon as you adjust one, if affects the other two. And then there is the evaporation issue..... after a day or two of evap the water level changes just enough to screw up your gate adjustments.

So, I just adjusted them by watching my gorgs in the tank. When they were really moving and dancing I figured that was as close as it needed to be.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Here's the right side. Ignore the brown blob in the middle, it's a snail that decided it liked what was growing on the acrylic.

I'll try to get another update posted later this evening.

Brett

[Flanders]

That looks like a lot of water moving there, more than I expected. Beautiful setup.

[piercho]

Brett,

The reason you got 50+ joints sealed without a drip is that you, obviously, know what you are doing. One day, when I'm all growed up, I'd like to have a tank as neatly layed out, equipment-wise, as yours. Even better to see your now that it has a reef in it.

I'm so glad that the ring injector worked out in your application. It is hard to know how it might turn out, as far as output, since there are so many nuances in the system parameters that can effect it. By the pictures I'd say that you achieved excellent results, and without pulling enough micro bubbles back into the display tank as to be a distraction for the easily-distractable. That is a "problem" with mine when I really push it wide open.

One thing I expected in my air-lift system was a lot of cryptic-type creatures, especially sponges, along the collection tank (the equivalent of the lower part of your Eco Wheel tank) walls and maybe even in the piping. After 10 months with the air lift it hasn't happened. I haven't read Tyree's zonal filtration books, and maybe I'm missing how this is suppose to work. Maybe I need to buy and add some high-flow sponges and tunicates from DE to seed the system and then see what happens. What I do get that is unusual (compared to many tanks) is a wall of feather dusters (hundreds of them) near the 2' long inlet strainer inside the tank. I've harvested them back recently to keep the inlet from getting overgrown to the point of resticting water flow. But my water still yellows without carbon and I have no reason to believe that I'm supporting filter-feeders better than any other reasonably successful reef keeper not using an air lift.

I hope you'll update this thread periodically over the next couple of years. Once again, best of luck (As if you need it!).

[skylsdale]

Piercho, I'm not sure of how "high flow" the area is you're referring to, but I think featherdusters and similar organisms are what Tyree is referring to in the high flow cryptic zone. The sponges and tunicates need an almost still column of water to really acquire enough nutrients to grow and spread.

[Putawaywet]

Here is a quick update of how things have progressed in the last couple of weeks.

Overall, both tanks are doing well. Coralline is filling in with pinks, greens and reds in that order of dominance. I am starting to see some of those little curly calcareous tubeworms taking hold in various places around the tanks. Mostly high flow areas like around the overflows, on outer parts of the rocks and down in the lower portions of the Eco-Wheel filter. Nuisance algae has been kept to a minimum, but I have been feeding a semi-nightly milkshake of Algamac, Roti-Rich and Golden Pearls 3-4 times a week, and if I don’t monitor the addition closely, I see algae blooms 24-48 hours later.

One thing that I find interesting is the lack of cyano and diatoms that seem to make an appearance in the early stages of a tank’s life. My sandbed seems to get a light coating of brown algae in a few areas, but I have enough animals that stir things up to keep that in check. I find myself wiping down the glass about every other day.

As far as additives go.... I add approx 3 tsps of Kent’s Turbo Calcium 2-3 days in a row, then switch and add 50ml of each Kent A&B on the alternate day. I repeat as necessary to keep my calcium levels between 380-420ppm. I have made 2 small water changes since the system was set up using Catalina Water Co. NSW at the rate of 30-35 gal per water change. Unless I have a change of mind, I’ll probably continue with similar 10-15% water changes on a regular monthly basis. Evaporation is moderate, with anywhere from 1-3 gals of RO water needed to top things off each day.

So far, I have no plans to use any additional supplements.

Corals: The only coral that has been lost to date are a Sinularia sp. and some nice looking orange zoanthids. The zooanthids caught the attention of my Navarcus (Majestic angel) and have been relegated to a few fragments that have tumbled out of view. The Sinalaria sp. (yellow finger leather) appeared to have difficulties during acclimation. The coral never extended polyps and began to disintegrate shortly after it was added. The coral was obtained form a LFS who kept it under a pair of T5 fluorescent lights, and I suspect that it succumbed to light shock immediately after being added to my tank.

However, I discovered that there was a pair of (yet to be identified) tunicates attached to the underlying rock. The piece has since been moved to the smaller tank where the tunicates look to be thriving.

The lavender Montipora that is shown in the above pic seems to be darkening slightly, turning an overall dark purple/brown but still retaining its bright blue coloring along its outer edges. I accidentally damaged this coral slightly when I broke off a nickel-sized piece while attempting to mount it in the tank. The fragment was small, but I thought it was worth saving, and I epoxied it to the reef in a nearby location. Initially, there was some die-off, but much to my amazement, the frag has re-grown and in now encrusting the epoxy holdfast.

The light green Acropora is darkening also, turning from a pale, almost sea foam green coloration, to a very intense forest green color. I’m estimating there to be approximately 2-3mm of growth since adding it to the tank.

A recently acquired Studeriotes longiramosa (Christmas tree coral/ Medusa coral) also appears to be thriving. Unfortunately, I was having a brain fade that day and purchased it thinking it was an unusual species of Sinularia. As a result, I wound up with a non-photosynthetic coral that requires specialized care. Perfect for my low-light tank you say? Absolutely! Except for the fact that due to my misidentification, I placed it in the reef tank where it subsequently attached to a piece of rock. Nonetheless, it appears to be doing nicely. The only hitch is it doesn’t seem to like the metal halide lighting, but rather, prefers to open up during the later evening and throughout the night. Now that I have realized my mistake, I went right out and acquired a 2nd specimen and placed in the smaller tank. I think it will be an interesting side-by-side comparison to observe the two in their respective environments.

There is also a “winged” oyster that hitchhiked in on one of the large gorgs that appears to be doing well. Interestingly, the animal has the ability to move around on the gorg as it sees fit. It uses bissel threads to anchor itself in place, but upon moving, it simply "ropes" another branch and reels itself in like crane dragging a car out of a ditch.

There are also numerous species of sponge and aposynthetic bivalves thriving in the smaller tank along with a couple larger blue sponges that were added early October.


Fish: This is where I have taken the biggest hit. As of this writing all 3 Engineer gobies have been lost. The first problems started approximately 1 week after introduction. After apparently settling in well, I noticed one of the trio looking horribly beat up - he had several marks along his body and his tail was ragged with exposed flesh present. I have seen inter-species aggression before from these guys, but never to this extent. I subsequently moved the fish to the smaller tank in the hopes he might recover. 48 hours later he was covered in what appeared to be a white mucus type of coating and died later that evening.

The following week a second goby appeared with exactly the same symptoms and was subsequently moved. A few days later he was found deceased on the sand bed.

At the start of the third week I noticed my Hippo tang chasing and harassing the last remaining goby. The goby appeared to be a little beat up but not to the extent of the other two. I was a little confused as to why the Hippo would have turned into such a bully, but nonetheless; I moved the goby to the smaller tank to recover.

Within a few days he had stopped eating and was beginning to show signs of the same mucus coating as the other two. The following day, he actually looked like he was peeling and his tail had disintegrated into a terrible looking stump. At this point I realized that the infection was not secondary to the aggression, but rather, the aggression was brought on by their diminished health due to the infection. Sadly, I euthanized my last goby on 10/18/03


Gorgonian condition 1: (Borneman, E.H. 2001) Is a term that until recently, I was not familiar with. However, the condition as described by Eric B. in his book ‘Aquarium Corals: Selection, Husbandry and Natural History’ is a pretty accurate explanation for the next problem that I found myself contending with.

On or about week 5, (approx 3 weeks after species introduction) I began to notice patches of tissue receding from several of my smaller Muricea sp.??? (bronze/golden sea rod) gorgonians. The recession appeared somewhat overnight, and within a couple of days had stripped several gorgs of 25-50% of their outer tissue. Testing (Salifert) showed no detectable levels of NO2/NO3 or NH4. Calcium levels were at approx 380ppm and alk/dkh measured 11.5 / 4.1 respectively. pH came in at 8.0 - System was put on carbon and a 10% NSW water change was performed.

Within a few days the affected gorgs had stabilized, however the remaining gorgs of the same species began to follow suit. At this point I began to wonder if they weren’t succumbing to some kind of pathogen as all other varieties of gorgs appeared healthy and unaffected.

By week week two all gorgs of that particular species had suffered some degree of damage. (At this time the recession has all but stopped and some regeneration has begun, although it is slow and not totally widespread)


Conclusion: So far I quite happy with how things are progressing and I’ll keep my fingers crossed that there are no further setbacks. Upcoming plans are to start building the pinnacle structure for the smaller tank. And yes Skylsdale... all the way to the surface is the intended plan. I originally thought about trying some rockwork around the interior walls – sort of a cave-like look. But I’m thinking that will be too labor intensive to fabricate. Besides, I’m starting to like the “glow” that I get from the subdued lighting and the blue acrylic. Also, the smaller width of the tank really captures the look and feel of what is referred to as a focus tank at a couple of the public aquariums I am familiar with. So, I’ll stick to the rock in the center of the tank and have the corals growing outward from that. I have already added a trio of Pajama cardinals and a pair of Purple firefish (although I haven’t seen one of them in several days). I’m also looking at a pair or trio of Lretail anthias but I certainly won’t count out the Sunbursts.

Anyone have any other suggestions for deeper water specimens? A goby perhaps? Something from the Echinoderm family?

Keep in mind, it’s a deeper water tank, not a “DEEP” water tank, so anything from the 50’-150’ depths will suffice. Skylsdale, I know you’ve researched this area quite extensively, so I’m counting on you for some suggestions.

Other than that, all I can say is yes, the system is pricey, and I can’t argue that. You can certainly lessen the sticker shock by factoring in the absence of a custom built sump, top of the line skimmer, refugium, and several pumps to help bridge the gap. If you really wanted to try and justify it further, you could also subtract the price of a chiller and all the electricity that would be used over the course of several years. I guess if you got creative enough you could probably show this system to be a pretty good bargain.

Or you could certainly set up something comparable with a more traditional algae filter and sump. How about a sump down below, with an airlift taking water up to an ATS that would then dump directly into the tank? The ATS becomes the refugium and you could even use a dump bucket for a surge effect. There are a lot of ways to feel slightly less of a pinch on the wallet. But regardless, you’re going to feel a pinch if you want to do it right. The thing to remember is, it’s not what you use to accomplish your goal, it’s whether or not the goal is accomplished. And if the goal is to remove impeller pumps from the equation, reduce heat transfer, and provide alternative means of water filtration, then I really feel that this general type of idea is the way to go.

But, price not withstanding, this was my dream system and I wanted something that was “outside of the box” so to speak. I also wanted something that was already proven. That by itself was enough justification for me. I have always enjoyed taking the road less traveled and this has definitely been a real excursion.

I’ll be happy to continue to answer any questions that might come up, or join in any further discussions, but I’m not planning to add any further updates for another 3-4 weeks. I’d really like to make some progress on the smaller tank before I start dumping more pics into this growing thread.

So until next time, keep the lights on and the water moving,

Brett

[skylsdale]

I'll bide my time until you get the "deeper" water side a little more pieced together. I can't tell you how close this is what has been unraveling in my mind as "the dream system." Light and dark...the best of both worlds. Maybe I missed it, but what is the pinnacle side being lit with? How many gallons is the dimmer tank? A few suggestions (take them for what you will):

Fish: I'm not a big fan of Pyjama cardinals, but to each his own. I think cardinals are a great addition to a dimly lit tank, as well as the purple firefish (maybe you can pretend they're Helfreichs). ;) I love both Lyretails and Sunbursts, but wonder if the Sunbrusts would do better given the dimensions of the tank? However, if you've got some good laminar flow in an area around the pinnacle, they may be happy to just sit in there and feed. Another fish choice would be some sort of flasher wrasse. You may want to bypass the lyretails and try to add a small harem of these little guys instead...which might work better with disposition of the current fish in the tank. A few diminuitive gobies would be cool...maybe some triplefin types if you can get them (I always see them in photos from the reef slope, but not sure if they make it into the trade).

Corals: I'm not sure specifically what you're thinking of trying in here, but obviously it's going to be tough sustaining a large variety of completely non-photosynthetic organisms in this system. One type that I would recommend adding in there are some plating corals like M. capricornis. I think to see these growing out from a vertical structure would be impressive, and would provide variation to the habitat for the fish, as well as small cryptic areas beneath them for sponges, tunicates, etc. to establish and thrive.

Aquascaping: I'm not sure if you've laid down sand in there yet or not, but personally I would refrain from it. For one, I think it would visually look better to cover the bottom with a few larger pieces of rock and then rubble of varying sizes...even down to some CC particles. This will create an incredible habitat for pods and worms and critters, spawning more food for the inhabitants on the pinnacle. This will look cool at the base of the pinnacle as pieces would naturally crumble, fall, and settle at the bottom. You may try adding a few small areas with sand, but you can put some other small fish that would do well in that area as well. A Randall's goby would look very cool in there, as well as other small wrasses (maybe a 6-line or possum wrasse). Anyway, every once in a while you can then take a pump or powerhead and just blow it around on the bottom, lifting up all sorts of crud and detritus back up into the water column, while keeping sediment levels to a minimum. Beautiful and functional.

[H20ENG]

Great job Putawaywet!
Beautiful installation.
A few questions:
Does the wheel box have a lid to keep the salt creep inside?
Any way of making a sort of collection cup to catch the foam produced, or is this a nul point with the ATS?
Is the one wheel used for both systems?

You could add an RCSD easily to this tank and really get it surging, and still have tons of plankton. I really like these systems!
Chris

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by H20ENG
A few questions:
Does the wheel box have a lid to keep the salt creep inside?
Any way of making a sort of collection cup to catch the foam produced, or is this a nul point with the ATS?
Is the one wheel used for both systems?

You could add an RCSD easily to this tank and really get it surging, and still have tons of plankton. I really like these systems!
Chris

Yes the box has has a lid (3/4" acrylic I think) that the light hood rests on. The hood is bulit to the outer dimentions of the box, so it's a nice clean setup.

No need for a collection cup for two reasons:

1st: The foam is relatively weak

2nd: The idea of keeping the foam is to provide nutrients for the Alagae to process. Cotact time between algae and effluent is about 15 seconds per rotation, at approx 2 rpm. How well does that theory work? Well, I have no way of testing it, but I can tell you this things does grow some algae. And that's with a pair of 50/50 PC quads overhead. Chris from A.E. informed me there was a miscommunication and the lighting manufacturer shipped the wrong bulbs - he will be sending me something down in the 6500 spectrum as soon as he gets them. So I expect to see a growth change when that happens.

Yes, one wheel for both tanks, water is split as it leaves the filter and valves were installed inline for adjusting the flow.

Ref the RCSD... no plans at this time. But who know what will come up down the road. It's the old story of......

"She ain't broke, but can we fix her better?" :D

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Skylsdale,

Mucho appreciado, I knew you'd come through ;)

The tank specs out to 90 gals but the water level is a couple inches down from the top and the angled influent/effluent boxes eat up additional interior space. The measurements are more like 24x24x30H at the sides, with the width stretching out to 30" where the corner boxes meet the rear wall. If that makes any sense.

Basically, what I have is a cube tank that is a little deeper front to back, than side to side. But even though the interior dimesions are a little tight, I've got a real nice clockwise flow in there.

As far as what I'm looking to add.... I'm really wanting to try some aposynthetic gorgs coming off the sides of the rockwork. Somethng like Swiftia exserta (red/orange polyped gorg). after that, it's still up for grabs.

But I do love your idea of a species transition from the top down.

Yes there is sand in there now, but I'm rethinking that as we speak. It just looks too much like the other tank. Believe it or not, my original ideas were to have an aragacrete type of covering on the bottom, sides and rear walls. I had planned to have everything gowing inward to replicate a cave or crevice.

But I'm liking the pinnacle idea better, and the rubble substrate is looking more attractive as time goes by.

Right now the lighting is a pair of 13w PC's just to light the tank. I wasn't sure exactly what I had in mind so I installed something quick and easy to get some light in there. If I remember correctly, weren't you involved in some discussions on lighting these kind of tanks? Something about a 150w MH with a 20k bulb? I think I remember something like that in the back of my mind.

The fish seem to be doing well - they just love the laminar flow. It's very cool to see everyone lined up in the same direction all day waiting for the current to bring something their way ;)

Brett

[skylsdale]

Glad I could help. Lighting is one of the most difficult aspects of a tank like this...and we can talk about it more. I'm heading out of town tomorrow for the rest of the week, but PM after that and we can talk specifics and I can share with you some of the options and conclusions I've come to.

I think for this type of tank and those types of coral inhabitants, a substrate devoid of fine sediment is the best. Like I said, you can give it a good wallop of flow once in a while to kick the detritus back up into the water column, and it will be an absolute breeding ground for microfauna. For examples, try to find pics of caves, arches, and overhangs (Reef Fishes Vol. 1 has a good example on pg. 195. Look at the bottom substrate in the picture--there is very little sand, but plenty of rocky substrate and smaller rubble...with small corals trying to establish themselves).

[Putawaywet]

Update 11/13/03

The 5000k PC quads arrived from Chris at A.E. and are now installed above the EcoWheel. In just a few days I’ve already seen a noticible increase in algae production. And judging from the amount of growth, it looks like I’ll be harvesting about once a week.

In the last few weeks I also made some changes to my canopy in regard to cooling fan orientation. First, I reversed the direction of my Orion fans to an arrangement where they blow in, instead of out. Next, I ventilated the top of the canopy itself via 4, 5” holes directly above the MH pendants. This allows for a sizable amount of air to circulate around the light pendants before being forced upward and out of the canopy. This has made an enormous improvement, and even when the fans off I’m still getting a modest amount of air flow just through natural convection

However, as a result of the above changes I had to add a 250w Ebojager heater to the system. The change in cooling fan orientation, as well as a break in the warm weather out here, had a dramatic impact on my ability to hold consistent temperatures. With ambient room temps of 75-76 degrees I was easily seeing matching tank temperatures come early morning. Actually, it looks like I’ll need to add another heater as just one may not be able to keep up when we get a little closer to those brisk December and January temps.

One of the other things that I have recently done is to expand the variety and frequency of my nighttime feedings. I ordered up some powdered Spirulina, and Vibragro from Aquatic Ecosystems and have now added that to my mix of Golden Pearls, RotiRich and Cyclopeeze. The Vibragro comes in pellet form, but I was able to easily grind it into a powder and add it in with the rest.

I add a generous tsp. of mix to 1/2 qt of tank water and mix thoroughly. This is then added to the tank in small increments over the course of the night (I work a flex schedule and am home and awake several nights a week). On average, it works out to about 4-5 feeds per week. Somewhere in the distant future I have plans to set up a dosing system to automate my feedings.

The corals seems to love it and are responding with excellent polyp extension. Even my leathers are extending polyps nearly 24/7.

I do have to be a little mindful of how much I add in a 24 hr. period as overdosing the tank results in a noticeable algae bloom a day or two later.

-----------------------

Corals overall are doing well, with the main exception of the gorgonians that I mentioned earlier. The recession seems to have stabilized, but I am having difficulties judging recovery due to the numerous areas that have been stripped. I made the decision to leave the sections of bare skeleton intact since I haven’t really seen a problem with them becoming overgrown with algae and I’m hoping it will help with recovery

Sadly, that vibrant lavender montipora has taken a serious turn for the worse. After a period of progressive pigment darkening, it decided to completely bleach and looks to be barely hanging on. Most surprisingly, the nearby frag is looking as good as ever and has just about doubled in size. I had the opportunity to discuss this situation with a couple professional aquarists and they seem to be in agreement that the series of events that led up to this quite possibly is the result of lighting issues. Recommendations were to swap out my lighting to something in the 20,000k range.

So, I’ve have been looking at some of the new 20,000k bulbs that have hit the market. I’m hearing there will be a couple new offerings in the next few months so it looks like I’ll be following some of the lighting threads quite closely.

The funny thing is..... I can remember back when 6500k was considered the accepted standard for MH bulbs. There was even a sizable amount of people who swore that 5500k’s paired with actinics worked just fine. When we began to see the 10’s hit the market there were many a discussion on their actual usefulness. Many hobbyist’s actually considered them to be too blue for their liking. Of course, we knew little back then of what we know now about par and intensity, and there were very few comparisons or tests out there to help us along in our thinking.

Another reason that I am considering switching is I have taken a pretty good look at the live coral tank down at my local public aquarium and noted their choice of bulbs. I was quite surprised to find a mix of 20’s and 50’s hanging exclusively above the tank. I completely expected to find it predominantly lit in the 10,000k spectrum. For those of you that have seen the live coral display at the Long Beach Aquarium I’m sure you’ll agree that it’s quite the impressive tank.

In the mean time, I’ll keep researching and we’ll see what comes of it. Who knows, I might just have to try some 20’s over the tank in the next month or two.

-----------------------

Fish are also doing equally well. I added a couple new gobies to take my mind off of the sudden loss of my favorite trio of engineers.

Several weeks ago I added Valencienna puellaris (diamond / orange spotted goby) and Amblygobius phalaena(Dragon goby). Both appear to be doing fine and have taken to sifting through the sand quite nicely. Neither seems to build quite as big of sand piles and my engineers did but yet, seem to be able to keep the sand clean and free of detritus.

A few days ago I added 7 blue line cardinals??? to add a little variety to the tank. Unfortunately, it appears that I lost one in the first 24 hours. The remaining 6 seem to be schooling together nicely though.

[Putawaywet]

Here’s a shot of that S. longiramosa (Christmas tree coral or medusa coral) that was added on 09/14/03.

This coral, despite it’s overall brown coloration, is aposymbiotic and feeds off of nutrients being carried by the surrounding water. Generally, it is a shallow to mid-depth specimen that is usually found on soft sand or rubble substrates.

It still appears to be doing well and is even extending polyps a little more frequently over the course of the day. I have also noticed that it is looking a little larger in the last few weeks - whether that means it has actually grown, or is just becoming more comfortable with it’s environment, I’m not sure.

Consequently, the second S. longiramosa that is in the low-light tank also appears to be doing equally well. It’s about half the size of the one in this pic and didn’t appear to be in quite the same good shape as it’s big brother when it was first acquired, but it seems to be ok now. Surprisingly, it also closes up periodically throughout the day, so I guess my light response theory is kinda shot out the window. Perhaps this is just this particular type of coral’s general behavior.

[Putawaywet]

Here is a pic of something I picked up on 11/05/03.

I’ve narrowed it down to being a member of the family Actinodendron, and poss even Actinodendron plumosum. But I’m still not100% sure. Members of this family are commonly referred to as tree anemones as they have long, branching tentacles that frequently cause them to be mistaken for soft corals. However, they are most definitely anemones and are regarded for their potent stinging ability.

They seem to be found in the lagoons and straights of the South Pacific, where they seem to thrive on the sandy bottoms near places such as Papua New Guinea and the Saloman Islands.

I must confess that in spite of knowing better, I totally succumbed to an impulse buy on this one. I had seen it the week prior at the LFS and went home intending to find out a little more about it. However, numerous attempts failed, and the more I tried, the more I realized how unique this specimen was. In all honesty I actually awoke one morning, got dressed, and went out and brought it home.

[Putawaywet]

One last pic for the road. It’s my favorite pic of all. It’s the view of the reef from my chair in the living room

Brett

[Flatlander]

Love that last pic Brett. Very nice.

[Dragon Wrasse]

Hi Putawaywet,

I love the system and the Idea.

I'm from up north ..Canada.......and have been attempting to get info on this system...it appears that the manufacturers website is down....non-existant...............attempted to reach them by phone etc.

Would like to get the dollar value of the system and if there are different systems for differnt sizes.

Do you see any cons to the system?....pros?

Any input is much appreciated

[Putawaywet]

Dragon Wrasse,

I'm not sure why the site isn't working.

Try emailing Chris directly - chris@eco-wheel.com

Otherwise, I know he checks his voice mail frequently and returns calls from the road when he get's an opportunity.

From what I can gather they do a lot of business with schools, restaurants, public aquariums, etc, so they are out and about quite frequently.

The price of the basic EcoWheel is a little over $3K and includes everything except the pvc pipes to hook it up. This includes the lighting, air pump and all fittings.

You do not need to order a tank or stand from them but you will either have to have your tank constructed with the required influent box, or purchase their retrofit to make it work properly.

They do have turn-key setups (90gal & 180gal ???) for those that want them, but their real specialty is engineering a system for you. Basically, you tell them what you want to do, and they will send you a quote for the complete system.

Cons????

Well, lacking a sump you have to hide all probes and heaters in the influent/effluent boxes at the rear of the tank. Not a big deal, but kind of a drag to get to them if you need to make frequent adjustments.

It's an ATS based filter. There those out there that will argue the downside of this, but I am not one of them.

About the only other thing I can think of is the basic layout itself. The filter has to go next to, not under the tank. This means you will have a section of solid cabinet on one end that stretches from stand to canopy. Not a big deal if you want a room divider type of setup as you just stick that end against the wall. But if you don't prefer that kind of look to your tank you will need to mount the filter remotely and run the plumbing thru a wall or such to keep both ends of the tank visible. It would be pretty easy to have the tank on one side of a wall and the filter on the other, such as a living room/garage co-joined wall situation.

Pluses???

Let's see......

No pumps, sump, chiller, protein skimmer, refugium, etc.
Lower electrical bills - especially on larger tank setups
Filter feeder friendly design.
Lot's of empty cabinet space - you could even have an open frame type of stand if you wanted to. (actually, I think it would be cool to build a metal stand into your wall with supports sticking out for the tank to sit on. There are a lot of people building tanks "into" a wall, but how many actually have them mounted "to" the wall with an empty space under them like a giant shadow box????)

That's about all I can think of for now.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Hi Doug,

How are you making out with unhooking that bubble tower and going completely skimmerless?

Brett

[Flatlander]

Originally posted by Putawaywet
Hi Doug,

How are you making out with unhooking that bubble tower and going completely skimmerless?

Brett

Still working on it. :D . When I run sumpless/slimmerless, I cap the overflows and use them to hold the heaters, ATS feed pump, etc.

At the moment they are occupied by several young bangaii fry, eating the crop of mysis shrimp living in them.

Yet, as much as the skimmer removes tons of crap, {I dump the Euroreef cup daily}, I see no difference in the tank without it. Mind you, I have never gone more than several weeks.

[tehfishmang]

What's keeping the micro algae from infesting your live rock and display tank?

That was always my fear with algae turf scrubbers.

[Dragon Wrasse]

Thanks for the input Putawaywet....I really appreciate it.

[Flatlander]

Originally posted by tehfishmang
What's keeping the micro algae from infesting your live rock and display tank?
That was always my fear with algae turf scrubbers.

The turf algae that grows on scrubber screens has never grown inside the tank. I have even fed the fish some of the algae scraped from the screen.

[Putawaywet]

Basically you have two distinct environments going on here.

First, you have the natural reef environment that (provided you have stocked your tank with them) contain numerous varities of natural algae grazers.... fish, hermits, snails, urchins etc.

Then, you have the algae filter environment that contains little or no grazers. The biggest thing in there working against the algae is probably the copepods.

This creates a situatuion where the algae thrives in the filter and not in your tank. Whether they realize it or not, every reefer has algae growing in their tanks at this very moment. Dozens of varieties actually. But through natural predation it is kept in check.

Knowing that I was going to be setting up this tank I became a little laxed in my husbandry practices in regard to the old tank. I stretched out my water changes, stopped siphoning the sandbed, let my cleanup crew dwindle, etc. And low and behold, I found myself with a hair algae outbreak.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this scenario isn't a contributing factor to the common problem referred to as "old tank syndrome" It makes sense. You have a situation where a reefer becomes a little complacent, doesn't really notice that attrition has thinned out the cleanup crew, and suddenly finds themseves dealing with hair algae. Especially if it is in conjunction with a DSB that is slowly being packed with crud.

But hey... that's a discussion of another color.

Brett

[H20ENG]

Brett,
can you give some more detail on the wheel construction and operation?
You said it scoops up some water then dumps it for the surge, but I thought that the wheel was half full of sand or something to displace the water as it went around. In their drawing, it shows it sectioned in half, then what looks to be the scoop you mentioned.
Can you clarify?
And, How much higher than the tank water level is the wheel tank water level. I'm curious how much lift you get.
Thanks!
Chris

[Putawaywet]

Looks like I gave out some bad info.

In regard to the info on Long Beach's live coral lighting I need to correct an error. Their lighting on the live coral display is a 50/50 mix of 10,000k & 20,000k bulbs.

I just double checked and there are no 50,000k bulbs above the tank. I have no idea how I got it into my head that they were using 50's but I apologize for the mistake.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Chris,

The inside portion of the wheel that is visible contains bioballs, not aragonite or cc. I think the original plan called for aragonite in the thought that as it tumbled the aragonite would dissolve and provide some form of buffering or calcium. I'm guessing that didn't work out as planned. So now it's bioballs and what their purpose is I'm not 100% sure. Wet/dry filtration? I'm sure that's going on in there, (Won't that raise an eyebrow when I admit to running a wet/dry) but anything beyond that I haven't a clue.

It's kinda hard to see inside of the wheel because of the way it is made, but there is a small opening between two of the blades that measures roughly 1"x18". It's just slightly smaller than the bioballs so they were obviously added as it was being assembled.

The other portion of the wheel is obviously sealed and I have no idea what is in there. Sand perhaps? Serving as ballast possibly?

I can say that the wheel is not balanced, and if you stop the airflow it will come to rest at the same place each time. It is also pretty heavy - a lot more heavy than you first think it should be - so it sure feels like you're lifting an extra 15lbs of something when you're handling the thing.

My description of the wheel "scooping and dumping" proably isn't the best, as I really don't see the water pouring out of the wheel at any point. "Water displacement" is probably a better term to explain the change of the water level within the filter.

The water level in the filter runs about 8" higher than the aquariums when the airlift is operating. But that 8" is pretty deceiving. The filter tank is only slightly larger than the wheel and there really isn't anywhere for the bubbles and water to go. Everything is pretty much channeled up and around the wheel at both the front and the rear. If I was to lift the wheel assembly out I'm sure the water level would be considerably less.

The overall level in the filter can be adjusted by valving down the flow into the aquariums. As the level rises, the rotation speed of the wheel increases. The advantage to this? As far as I can tell it equates to a little less flow but more frequent surges.

One thing worth mentioning is that you really have to be mindful of your evap on this system. Removing as little as 5 gals will bring the wheel to a stop. Water is still flowing into both aquariums, but it is doing so without the surge. However, with the wheel stopped, approx 50% of it's surface is out of the water and the algae can also dry out. This has already happened to me on one occaison. Attempts to compensate by adding a little more water don't really work that well either, as it raises the level in the tanks above the slots in the overflow and you lose some of your surface skimming. You also lose a little flow in the tank as the incoming water seems to use gravity to it's advantage to pick up a little speed as it pours back into the tank. Reduce the distance that it falls, and it seems to lose some of it's punch - if that makes any sense.

HTH

Brett

[piercho]

So now it's bioballs and what their purpose is I'm not 100% sure. From other threads on the subject of the EcoWheel, I've gathered that the bioball's purpose is to reduce the amount of microbubbles making it back to the tank.

[rendeyxu]

So how do you do water top off? since it's a critical part for the filter to work propably.

rendey

[Putawaywet]

Howard,

That's the intended purpose of the bioballs in the lower portion of the filter tank, but inside of the wheel? I don't see how that would help.

Brett

[H20ENG]

Thanks Brett. So the Ballast is sealed inside? I remember it being a displacement system, but wasnt sure. Interesting about the bioballs though.
Rendey,
Seems this is more suited to a small dosing pump or drip topoff than levels. You could probably install a stilling well in which to mount a float though.
Chris

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by H20ENG
So the Ballast is sealed inside?

I'm guessing so because the thing is just way too heavy for the amount of plastic that is there. It's somewhere in the 50-55lb range.


Ref the water top off I'm just pouring in a couple quarts of RO in the overflow each morning and another couple quarts in the evening.

Next set of days off I'm going to setup a kalk drip to bridge the gap until I can install a dosing pump and resevoir.

My to do list is still pretty long.......

A saltwater makeup system out in the garage, calcium reactor, a pullout drawer with a wet tray for the cabinet, wrap up some lighting issues. And then there is the whole project of getting the rockwork and lighting for the low-light going.

Brett

[asmujica]

:thumbsup:

[piercho]

but inside of the wheel? Well, I wasn't reading carefully, was I? No ideas.

[picture the reef]

Brett, I looked at several methods of topoff and never found any type of level activated type of system that was accurate with the Eco-Wheel. I bought a Litermeter III and let me say it's some of the best money I have spent on the tank so far. I started out mixing Kalk in a five gallon bucket but this soon became very old since I had to do it every three days. I have now incorporated a Kalk reactor into the setup with a 32 gal. trash can. Now I add kalk every month and fill the trash can about every 3 weeks. Great system.:D

[nf4sevenw]

the website is down. anyone know why?

[H20ENG]

They moved it to ecowheel.com, but its still not all there.

[DennisRB]

Dude ecowheel.com sells chrome wheels for cars.

[H20ENG]

www.eco-wheel.com

[H20ENG]

Sorry "Dude".

[DennisRB]

It cool bro

[rsman]

without verification, its been pointed out to me before that nitrites are NOT consumed by algae's that being the case it might make sence that with the eco-wheel the bio balls are required to convert any nitrite into nitrate. before sending back to the tank.


just a guess. but it could explain them.

[skylsdale]

I haven't checked this thread in a while--looking good! Do you have any shots of those cardinals? Here's a shot of them from npaden's snorkeling shots from Fiji (it's always nice to see fish in their natural habitat):

http://members.door.net/padens/snorkeling%20webpage/images/striped%20cardinals%202.jpg

How are things coming on the other side of the tank? Haven't heard anything from you in a while on that. Have you settled on an aquascape yet? Any photos of that side?

[Putawaywet]

I've got a few pics of the cardinals but I've been holding out for a better shot.

Actually, they turned out to be the long fin/high fin cardinals that everyone seems to be talking about as opposed to the ones in that pic.

I originally purchased 8, but 1 was doing the death spiral before I could even get it home. The 2nd never came out the following day. That left 6

FWIW: They really looked pretty bad when I got them - very thin with sunken stomachs. And since they will only take brine and mysis, I'm guessing they haven't had a good meal since they were collected.

But the remaining 6 have plumped up nicely.

However, still hoping for a somewhat larger school, I purchased 6 more yesterday (fresh in from the L.A. wholesalers at the LFS) and they looked just as bad.

Worse yet, another death spiral candidate in the bag on the way home - And a few hours later a 2nd was spiraling around in the tank and looking like he wasn't long for this world. (geez, haven't seen this kind of stuff since my freshwater days with neon tetras.) The weird part was the LFS guy was as gentle as he could be - they went from dealer's tank to specimen container to bag and they were still going belly up :confused:

But, I did get a taste of just how potent that "unique" anemone is that I talked about earlier. Cardinal #2 managed to spiral his way right into one of it's tentacles. Talk about a Kodak moment. He was completely gone in less than 60 seconds. The anemone didn't even close up, just merely drug the poor soul to it's mouth with one of it's arms and sucked him in like a kid eating a peice of candy.

I'm now vasilating between being wildly impressed, and concerned for my remaining inhabitants (DensityMan are you reading this??)

I'll get those pics up tomorrow.

Brett

[skylsdale]

That's strange...I can't imagine they would need to use cyanide to collect those guys. Must just be some pretty intense stress for them. Is this the fish you're talking about:

http://www.hkaquazone.com/albums/albun35/aas.sized.jpg

If so, I'm envious. I first found out about them a couple years ago, but have NEVER seen them available at an LFS or anywhere else. Very cool.

[Putawaywet]

No, these are the ones.

Apogon leptacanthus

They seem to prefer splitting up into small groups of 3-5, but occaisonally join up into 1 larger school.

They also seem to have the feeding routine down... they form up front and center and won't hesitate to mix it up with their tank mates for a bite to eat.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

On a side note.... is it me, or is this guy packing some pretty big guns for your average emerald crab. He kinda blossomed in the same manner that Brittany Spears did. One day he molted, and BAM!!! There they were.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Not much to report on things down at the other end. But I have decided that a pinnacle really isn't going to work.

So, it's back to my original idea of a cave or some kind of sloping wall. I'm thinking of rock on both sides and rear, running all the way to the top of the tank. Then, maybe a lesser smaller section in the middle jutting out towards the front and running about half way up.

I'm going to test out cementing some rocks to peices of acrylic. I'm thinking that I can build interior rock walls in a modular manner and then silicone them to the inside of the tank.

I've come to the conclusion that building stuff is easy, it's the design that's proving to be more difficult than I anticipated.


Brett

[Dragon Wrasse]

Hey Brett.....nice to here things are coming along........I was just wondering if there has been any issues with micro bubbles with your new setup.....thanks again!

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by Dragon Wrasse
I was just wondering if there has been any issues with micro bubbles with your new setup.....thanks again!

No, not really. There were some at first when I first set the system up, but after it matured a little they seemed to dissappear.

But there are plenty of other things floating around. Lacking any mechanical filtration there are a lot of particulates that are in a constant state of suspension.

Not that I'm complaining, but after all these years of trying to keep water as clean as possible, it's kinda tough to resist temptation to stick a canister filter on the thing to polish the water.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Update 12/19/03

I wanted to add a couple pics of the cryptic area in the lower portion of the filter. It took a few tries, but I think I finally got a couple that show a reasonable amount of detail.

As far as I can tell, my efforts have been met with relative success. I’m not only seeing an excellent growth of sponges, but a virtual explosion of pods as well. This area is just teaming with life and it seems that just about every square inch of space is inhabited by little scurrying life forms.

I did find a few aiptasias in there a couple days ago, but since I haven’t noticed any in either of the two tanks I imagine they’re still contained to the filter. I’m not too worried though, I’ve had the little buggers in the filter on my previous tank and for whatever reason they never seemed to be able to get a good hold in the main tank.

The detritus buildup in the filter seems to be somewhat moderate, but at the same time it also looks like it’s being processed to some extent. However, if it continues to accumulate I’m probably going to have to open up the filter to vaccuum the junk out.

[Putawaywet]

Here's the other half.

[Putawaywet]

I’ve got Nitrates:

Yep, they’re there and have been there for several weeks now. I’m getting consistant N03 measurements of 10.0 ppm.

I had a somewhat lengthy conversation with Morgan Lidster from Inland Aquatics and this was something that came up in our conversation. Morgan informed me that he experienced that same elevated readings and ultimately pulled the bioballs out of his unit to try and get them under control. I’m thinking that may be an option I might have to explore in the not so distant future.

[Putawaywet]

Here’s one of the larger gorgonians that took the hit a couple months back. On the whole, they seem to be rebounding, although entirely to slowly for my liking. It’s probably going to be quite a while before I’ll know for sure as their progress is so unbeliveably slow I can barely gauge it.

If you look just above the main fork of the gorg’s trunk you can see the "winged" oyster that initially hitchhiked in with it. So far it appears healthy and opens up nice and wide during the nighttime feedings.

[Putawaywet]

I finally emptied out the last of the old tank, which meant I needed to find a place for my tube anemones. Since my sandbed wasn’t going to cut it, I took some scrap ABS pipe and made something to contain them. It’s not fancy, but it works. I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed.

[Putawaywet]

The only other additions to the low-light tank have been this non-photosynthetic gorgonian. I’m still trying to identify it so if anyone knows what it is feel free to jump in.

[Putawaywet]

General parameters

I’ve had a few people PM me and ask about specifics on the tank setup so here is a quick rundown of my maintenance routine

Temp: 78-79.5 degrees.
Lighting: 10 hours of MH (500 watts) and 12 hours of T5’s (approx. 300 watts)

Water changes are performed using Catalina brand NSW every 10-14 days at approx 40 gallons per change.
Makeup water is a RO/Kalkwasser mix dripped in at various times throughout the day and night.

Kent Strontium and Molyblendium is added at the rate of approx 15 ml’s every 4-5 days. Kent Iodine is added at 5-10 ml’s every 4-5 days. And Salifert Trace-Hard is added at 35ml’s weekly. Kent turbo buffer is added as needed.

Daytime feedings are generally in the am and pm with frozen Mysis, Prime Reef frozen cubes, Prime Reef flake and Ocean Nutrition adult brine making up the bulk of the diet. Nori is provided via a clip a couple times a week.

Semi-nightly milkshakes of Golden Pearls, Roti-Rich, powdered Spirulina, powdered Vibro-grow and Cyclopeeze are dosed in small amounts on the nights I am home (2 days on / 2 days off). I basically divide the container into 4ths and dose every couple hours throughout the night. This ensures that the corals get a solid 8 hours of food with a break every couple days to allow for the filter to catch up on the water quality.

Brett

[Dk Coral]

Originally posted by Putawaywet
The only other additions to the low-light tank have been this non-photosynthetic gorgonian. I’m still trying to identify it so if anyone knows what it is feel free to jump in.

Maybe an Solenocaulon spp ???

[Putawaywet]

That sure looks like it will work.

I've been hard pressed to find any info on it.

Much appreciated Brian

[skylsdale]

I really like all that sponge growth you've got going on in there. I've got a 12" CPR fuge on a 30 gal packed FULL of LR rubble that I'm hoping will establish similarly. Is that a blue sponge you've got next to the gorg in your deep-water side? How's it doing? How is the flow in there? Did you decide on an aquascape yet?

[Putawaywet]

Skysdale, yes the sponge growth is unbelievable. I've identified 7 or 8 species so far in the lowlight. The cryptic part of the filter seems to be limited to the same 2 species, but that doesn't surprise me given the extremely hi flow in that area. I've also got several bivalves and 1 rock boring clam that came over from the previous tank that is doing wonderfully. Kinda amazing how those things work.... just a bunch of sediment in their hole is about the only sign they are doing anything. When I first found it a couple years ago it was about the size of my pinky and now it's up there with my thumb so I guess that's a good sign.

The blue sponge ( Haliclona ???) has been with me for several months and is growing nicely. It was pretty much in 2 pieces when I got it home. One of those 2 was later knocked loose due to an errant algae scraper but left 3 attachment points behind.

So I now have 2 moderate sized colonies and 3 fragments that are developing as well.

The flow in there is valved down a bit, just enough to keep the gorgonian happy, but not too much as to take away from the reef tank. I'd guess maybe 200-300gph?? I'd prefer to turn it up a bit as I have particulates settling out of suspension but I'd rather not do that at the expense of the flow in the other tank. I think I'm at the limits of the flow on this system, and while it seems to
be adequate, I just can't help but want a little more.

I've got some vacation time coming up in January and plan to attack the aquascaping then. It's going to take me a few weeks to recover from the holidays and get some more rock and another light fixture delivered.

Hopefully, come the end of January I'll have some new aquascaping and some new pics to share. After that it will be time to start giving some thoughts to what I want to put in there.

Brett

[Zacrifice]

Brett, How are your two tanks going? any new pictures to show?

How are the nitrites and nitrates going? gone yet or still persisting?

hows that low light side performing? anything new there?

wanting updates desperatly hahaha I find this thread very interesting, wanting to know if the alge filter is working!

Ben

[Putawaywet]

Hi everybody,

My apologies for taking so long to get back here but my 2 week vacation turned out to be a 2 week work around the house adventure. I'm also finding a large majority of my time being consumed by a vivarium that recently arrived to take the place of my former 90 gal that just came out.

I'll try to get some updates by the end of the week.

But until then I'll just say that everything is still going well, SPS's are growing fast. Most of the gorgs have started to recover and the fish all seem fat and happy.

Sorry to say though, not a lot of change in the low-light section. I just can't seem to find my inspiration.

But regardless, rest assured, I'll have plenty to talk about. So until then...

Brett

[Dragon Wrasse]

Thanks for the ongoing feedback .......much appreciated :)

[reefsociety101]

tagging.

[skylsdale]

I'm also finding a large majority of my time being consumed by a vivarium that recently arrived to take the place of my former 90 gal that just came out.

Did you get bit by the Dendrobates bug? Here's some inspiration:

http://www.frognet.org/gallery/

http://www.wildsky.net/vivarium/evivariu.htm

[nf4sevenw]

i breed them, pumili, alanis, and cirilla

[Putawaywet]

Yes and no. They have that whole lillipution cute factor going for them, and I do have a little experice with them, but I'm thinking of more of a Madagascar rainforest setup. I'm looking at some Ornate Hoppers and maybe a gecko or two right now. But you know how often I change my mind so it very well could wind up with dart frogs. Those cobalts and azures sure are sweet.

I sure wish public aquariums paid better so I could quit my real job and go play with exhibits and animals full time :)

Brett

[psycho_clown]

that is one great looking tank i'm green with envy right know

[shaw]

yep, read this post a long time ago, i really enjoy this tank, wish i could see more
thanks
shawn

[H20ENG]

"I sure wish public aquariums paid better so I could quit my real job and go play with exhibits and animals full time "
I'll second that. I make more as a Journeyman than I used to as the Chief :rolleyes:

[Putawaywet]

Greetings everyone.

First off, I’ve been hearing about people having difficulties reaching A.E. with EcoWheel questions. Apparently, not only are emails not being returned, but now I’m hearing that the phone might have been disconnected as well???

The last contact I had with Chris was early December and that was via email. I did speak to my cabinet guy last week and he said the last he spoke to Chris was about a month ago via phone but hasn’t heard from him since.

Basically, from what limited info I have, since Chris picked up the rights to market and sell the EcoWheel he has been handling all office related apsects of the operation himself. If there are any other people dealing with sales and distribution, I certainly haven’t had contact with them.

I just emailed him yesterday and am waiting for a reply. In the event I don’t get a response I’ll try calling him this week and see how that goes. I get back to everyone with what I find out.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Ok, for those that still have an interest here is the latest as of 2/12/04

Reef tank:

Overall the tank is looking good. I have seen no traces of nuissance algae - hair, slime or otherwise. Corraline has taken over about 75% of the original dry rock that forms the base of the two reef structures. The nooks and crannies of the rock are also being colonized by a myriad of life forms. Mostly it’s been limited to the common stuff that you see day-to day, but I’ve got a couple calcareous tube worms that have turned up and are approx. .25” in diameter. Shining a light in some of the cracks at night I see huge amount of mysis scurrying around with their little silver eyes reflecting off the beam of light.

One thing that I have noted is a decrease in the abundance of visible copepods since the addition of my madarin. I know these guys can pack them away, but it’s prety impressive what efficient eating machines they are in relation to their body size. I’m still seeing copepods within the rocks, just in more decreased numbers.

But most interesting, the mysis population is not a bit worse for wear. I’m wondering if being more highly mobile they manage to elude the mandarin. Actually, I can easily see mysis just about everywhere. They are all over the inside of the effluent boxes. I took an inventory one night and counted well over 70 in one box alone.

Those infamous Gorgonians:

The gold/bronze gorgonians are finally looking better, with 3 out of 5 of the smaller frags pretty much fully recovered. The remaining 2 are still really slow in bouncing back, but then again, they were the ones that had nearly 75% of their tissue destroyed. The 2 larger ones are looking pretty good also. All the bare branches have fallen off and nearly all of the remaining stubs have been covered over. Something worth mentioning is that I have noticed these 2 no longer have that nice bushy appearance during the day that comes from fully extended polyps. They still extend at night, but remain mostly closed during the period when the halides are on.

I’m now beginning to wonder if all of this was part of some kind of prolonged acclimation process that they might have been going through. In spite of being photosynthetic, I think they might still sustain a fair amount of nutrients from the water column. The start of their demise was right around the one month mark after introduction, which was about 6-8 weeks after the initial cycle had ended. I’m certainly no Gorgonia expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m starting to think they tanked about the time their carbon reserves had been exhausted and the amount of available plankton was not adequate to meet their needs. For those that might enjoy some interesting reading, there is a really nice thread in Eric’s coral forum about new tank syndrome and how it relates to coral health. No doubt, some of that info is probably applicable in this particular case.

But regardless, they are recovering so I guess I’ll have to wait and see how they look in another couple months. If they continue to rebound, the final cost will only be a year or so of missed growth.

On a related note, anyone have any guesses as to what’s up with that knobby sea rod that won’t extend polyps? After 2 years in the old tank, and nearly 5 months in this one, it looks pretty much the same as the day I brought it home. As strange as it sounds, it has neither grown, nor decreased in size. It has merely “existed” for the last 2 1/2 years.

Fish:

All fish are doing great with the exception of my school of cardinals. In spite of my attempts to increase thier numbers, they remain a group of 6. So, a group of 6 they will be. However, they are nice and plump - a far cry from the emaciated specimens that they were when I first acquired them. Unfortunately, this just leaves me even more irritated with the questionable handling practices of all the inbetweens they passed by.

Corals:

The remaining corals are all doing great. Especially that Monti Cap frag that I epoxied to my rock. The original size was about equal to a thumbnail, but it has now grown to approx 2” in dia. with the original epoxy hold being completely overgown. Also, 3 very distinct lobes are forming, so now I can’t wait to see what kind of shape it will take on.

I also acquired several extremely nice frags when I found myself in the right place at the right time. The first were several clippings of a beautiful purple tipped acro that needed some trimming. I mounted them together to somewhat resemble a single colony. In just a few short weeks the tissue has grown down to cover the epoxy and is now merging together. Additionally, there doesn’t appear to be a single spot of recession or bleaching to be seen. That is certainly a welcomed change.

The second is a really vibrant green branching hammer frag that has 2 small sized heads. I’ve seen a lot of brown colored hammer’s over the years, but when this really nice green one passed my way I jumped on it.

The last frag measures about an inch in length and came from a near all blue parent colony. This one was just mounted a few days ago so I’ll have to hold off on an opinion until next time.

The unfortunate part is, I’m quickly running out of room. I’m just about at the point where the only space I have left is for the really small stuff that doesn’t branch out very far. Should I stumble upon one of those "once in a lifetime" show pieces I’m going to be hard pressed to find a spot for it.

Misc:

That Egyptian winged turkey oyster attached to one of the larger gorgonians finally called it quits. I found the empty and detached shell sitting down on the sandbed last Wednesday.

That tree anemone (Actinodendron plumosum) has grown considerably and although it is looking really full, it has taken to lifting itself off the substrate and is making like a colt coral. It still looks nice, but I think it looks just a bit nicer laying flat so you can see the radiating arms branching off from it’s centralized mouth. I’ve not actively fed it since that errant cardinal spiraled into it some months back, so besides a few mysis now and then, it’s thriving on just light alone.

Low-light tank:

I know a few of you are hoping for some real progress here but unfortunately, it’s looking pretty much the same as it did last time. I just can’t seem to find any creative motivation to start on it. But past experience has tought me to be patient. One of these days I’ll stumble across something I think is ultra cool and then go home and tear into it.

Regardless, there is still a bit of info worth mentioning. The blue sponges have slowed in growth, but are still looking healthy. The two non-photosynthetic blueberry gorgonians are looking so-so. The better looking of the two came to me in much better shape and looks about the same as it did when first acquired. The latter of the two is not opening much but still putting up a good fight. My three Pajama cardinals are still doing well, but the odd man out is still not being accepted by the other two. My Royal Gramma rules the tank and is out nearly all of the time swimming well into the upper two-thirds to retrieve food. This is something I noticed it did not do in the old tank. Apparently, it must have been just a little too bright and busy for it to feel comfortable venturing so far from it’s hideout. It makes sense, especially since they are commonly found along vertical or sloping reef walls at the more subdued light levels of the mid-depth regions. Interestingly, the Dragon goby is also making like a mid-water feeder and eats right alongside the gramma in the upper parts of the water column.

My coral banded has dropped his left front claw once again. Strangely, he’s been doing this for years.... first in the old tank, and now in the new. About once every 4-5 molts. He dropped them both at once about a year or so ago, but for the most part, it’s always the left one.

On the plus side, the rocks are just teaming with microfauna. There are tiny sponges, calcareous tube worms, and other interesting critters nearly everywhere. The rock boring clams are growing, although a bit slow - the largest one is now a little bit more than 1” in length. Really interesting little buggers as they just keep getting bigger and so do their holes. I think I read somewhere that they secrete an enzyme that slowly dissolves the surrounding rock.

That little colony of green sea squirts is still holding on.... but barely. They seem to be extremely touchy about water quality. They puff up real nice for a few days after a water change, but close down again after that. They are neither multiplying nor decreasing, so I guess I’ll count them as a break even. Getting pics of them has proven to be pretty tough though, so I’ll just have to move on.

Most interesting though is the corraline. I had some initial die off on the pink stuff in the early months, but for the most part, the thicker deeper purple stuff is still going strong. I know the it doesn’t require a great amount of light, but I still expected a faint 26w above a 30” deep tank to be just a bit beyond the minimum requirements. But I’m certainly not complaining as I only have to wipe down the glass about once a month as compared to every other day in the reef tank. You folks that are running banks of 400 Radiums.... who are you payiing to wipe down your glass for you (LOL)

One thing I have been especially wanting to do as of late is get some overall pics of the entire system since it’s been up and running. Unfortunately, that’s also proving tough to do given the lighting differential between the two tanks. If I try and adjust for the low-light tank, the reef comes out totally over exposed. If I dial in the exposure for the reef tank, the low-light side comes out looking completely dark. I’m not exactly the world’s greatest photographer, but there’s got to be a way to make this happen. I guess I’ll have to keep practicing.


Filter:

The EcoWheel is beginning to look like a real biohazard with algae growing on just about any surface that is exposed to light. Corraline is becomming a real pain and about 50% of the wheel is encrusted. The predominant algae species seems to be changing a bit with the long, bright green filiment type stuff starting to fade a little in favor of the red “velvet like” variety that has started to pick up the pace. I think it’s Asparagopsis Taxiformis, but I haven’t put it under the microscope to positively I.D. it. Personally, I prefer the green stuff as it’s a lot easier to harvest. But them’s the breaks.

I did have a problem with one of the CSL PC quads breaking - seems one of those little glass connectors between the main light tubes decided to fracture and kill the light. So the filter was illuminated by only a single bulb for somewhere between a few days and a week and a half. It’s for this very reason that I have a dislike for PC’s. I temporarily installed one of the original 10,000k bulbs until a 5,000k replacement can be had - which may prove to be a bit difficult now that CSL has decided to close their doors.

The lower portion of the filter is really starting to look alive. I’m seeing some pretty good sized bristle worms taking up residence in the detritus, with a huge abundance of copepods and mysis crawling around there as well. Sponge growth is still limited to about 3 or 4 varities, but they are pretty much all over the eggcrate and plastic Matala. I also have a huge abundance of those little tube type snails... the ones that make those little spiral tubes and trap detritius via the little cobweb/fishing line thingies (hows that for exercising my technical writing skills?)

I’m still not seeing much in the way of mini feather dusters, but a few are starting to pop up so maybe I’ll see more in a few months. But I do have a pretty good colony of aiptasias growing down there. No doubt they are enjoying the abundance of Cyclopeeze that is being added to the tank. But so far, no signs of them in either display tank..... not a real surprise as my old setup was pretty much the same way - tons of them in the algae filter, and not a one could be seen in the main display.

I do have about a 1/4” layer of detritus covering the bottom of the filter tank, but it’s been there for approx. 4 months and doesn’t seem to really be increasing. There may come a time to when I might need to pull the wheel and give that area a good cleaning, but hopefully, I can put that off for a while. My intent is to try and leave that semi-cryptic area alone and observe it’s natural developement as the months progress.

I had a very interesting conversation with Morgan Lidster of Inland Aquatics back in December, and as a result, I am starting to give some thought to the possibly of pulling the bioballs out of the filter. Morgan has 2 of the earlier EcoWheels and passed on a problem he was having with nagging Nitrates that just wouldn’t go away. He shared with me that when he pulled the bioballs he saw a reduction, but it came at the expense of microbubbles being returned to one of the two tanks. And since I’m still seeing Nitrate readings consistantly in the 10 ppm area, that was obviously an important tid bit he passed along. Yanking the wheel won’t be an easy job given my celing height, so I think I’m going to mull it over a bit more before making a final decision.

Misc:

Nightly feedings are probably going to be the big one in this area, as adding a concentrated milkshake each and every night has proven to be just too taxing on the filtration. And since I’m not in the mood to perform water changes several times a week, I’m now scaling back to a schedule of a couple days on and a couple days off. Perhaps a lesser concentration still added on a nightly basis would be more prudent. I’ll have to see how it goes. Time will tell.

I had to switch out some of the GFI’s for normal outlets as I discovered they continually tripped in response to the light timers kicking off. After resetting them a couple dozen times I just gave up and swapped them out. I will leave the air pump and heater connected to a few existing GFI’s, but all lights are being swapped over to normal outlets.

I’m really happy with the cold cathode tubes I got from PCmods.com that are pulling duty as my nighttime lighting They are really working out nicely. So well in fact, I installed one in my vivarium. It casts this very subtle, shadowy blue light over all the rocks and plants.... and given the cabinet sits right next to my bed, it’s a very relaxing sight to fall asleep to. The newer light kits are just a tad nicer than the ones I picked up last summer, but still close to the same resonable price. For like 20 bucks you get the deluxe kit containing 2 -12” tubes, the microprocessor, a switch and a DC transformer. Everything is plug and play. However, they are made for computers so they come with a few extra wires and plugs, but those are easily cut off. The only drag is mounting of the tubes themselves. The light tube ends are enclosed in little acrylic blocks measuring approx 1/2” square. The easiest way I have found to securely mount them is with a little 2 minute epoxy. I have also glued some scraps of acrylic to the ends with Weldon and then drilled those to accept small screws. Double sided foam tape might work, but I wouldn’t trust it to hold over any period of time. Either way, it works out to be about 30 minutes worth of work for a nice nighttime lighting effect.

I managed to get the RO system installed in the laundry room last week. Unfortunately, I promptly managed to flood said laundry room a mere 3 days later. Guess you kinda have to remember to shut off the flow when you go to bed. I’m using a real simple setup..... set jug on floor, place output hose in jug, turn on water, come back and check in a few hours. Repaeat as need for jugs #2 and #3. But apparently, simple doesn’t necessarily mean idiot proof. If it was logistically feasible, I’d set up a holding tank with a float shutoff out in the garage - but it really isn’t, so I can’t. Guess I’ll be looking into some kind of a digital alarm to keep me paying attention and keep the floor dry

Other than that, I think I’ve mentioned about all that seems worth mentioning. My vivarium is really distracting me from stuff I know needs to be done and I’m hoping I can get back to wrapping up my “to do” list in a month or so. But FWIW, everything is still chugging along nicely without a whole lot of intervention on my part. Other than a bit of H20 topoff, the addition of some supplements, a weekly water change and algae harvest, I just pretty much just toss some food in once or twice a day as I pass by.

So, until next time.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Here's a few shots for the road........

[Putawaywet]

A shot thru the end

[Putawaywet]

A somewhat blurry pic of the purple tipped acro and my monti cap frag just to it's left.....

[Zacrifice]

is it wrong that I'm inthralled with this thread hahaha

Brett, thank you for the update, I have been waiting for it for a whlie hahaha and you certanly come through on depth and interest holding!!

With your nitrates, you might want to try removing the bioballs, just to see what happens, I think the alges and live rock will work good enough!

With the different alges maybe try removing the red slowly, starting with one section per week or something like that..

Might want to look at getting more cardinials online and having them delivered

hehe well, thank you HEAPS for the update!!

[picture the reef]

Brett, Thanks for the update. My tiny 90 gallon is still progessing also.:D I have been adding sps and a few lps. Morgan at IA is an extreemly knowledgable person. I too am considered removing the bioballs but so far have not. One of the more interesting fish I have found are the fang blennies. Out all the time, very colorfull, and appear to be hardy. I did a trio of the canaries. Wish now I had done a trio of one of the other varieties also. Talk to Morgan. He has them in stock.
I'm not surprised you can't reach Chris at AE. Ever since he took over the marketing rights he is very difficult to reach. Good luck! If you are unable to reach him PM me and I will offer a suggestion.

[Putawaywet]

Many thanks for all the suggestions and words of encouragement.

Zacrifice: It will probably come down to pulling the bioballs, which I'm really not anxious to do because of the labor that will be involved. My ceiling height will not allow me to pull the wheel assembly directly up and out. So, I will either have to try and pull it part way out and then dissemble, or disconnect the plumbing and slide the EcoWheel cabinet completely out. Either way, it's probably going to be an all day job that I'm not particularly looking forward to.

Picture the reef: I know Chris is a tough person to get ahold of, but from the sound of things it's worse than I thought. But I do have an alternate number or two that I'll try. I don't so much need to talk to him mysef but I thought I would give it a shot to at least see if he's alive and kicking. Besides, there does seem to be an interest from a couple people who are considering an EcoWheel but are starting to get discouraged from the lack of a response.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

I just received an email form Chris informing me all is well and A.E. is definitely still open for business. He did mention there were some big changes that have occured this last month and that they have caused some unexpected issues.

He will be getting back to me on Monday and I will try and confirm what email and or phone number is appropiate for people to use.

Brett

[matt & pam]

Received an email also from Chris. Thanks for getting him in touch Brett. He suggested that he is not recommending the bioballs.

[firemouth4416]

This seems like a great type of system.
Has anyone converted their trickle filter/sump into a system with a lighted eco-wheel type system? You could have some of your return water go over a wheel that has a light over it. I dont have room for a refuge so using the space in the old trickle filter/sump would allow me to have some algea scrubing.

[Zacrifice]

anything new happening Brett?

[shaw]

I was wondering if the ecowheel was made out of plastic, or some kind of "bioweel" like paper.
thanks
shawn

[Zacrifice]

Hey Shaw, altho I can't be intirely sure, I would make an assumption that the Bio wheel its self is produced out of PVC fittings.

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by shaw
I was wondering if the ecowheel was made out of plastic, or some kind of "bioweel" like paper. thanks shawn

It's constructed out of a heavy (3/8"??) sheet PVC and the whole thing is about the size of a 5 gal bucket. Very sturdy and extremely heavy, especially when covered in wet algae.

Originally posted by firemouth4416
This seems like a great type of system.
Has anyone converted their trickle filter/sump into a system with a lighted eco-wheel type system? You could have some of your return water go over a wheel that has a light over it. I dont have room for a refuge so using the space in the old trickle filter/sump would allow me to have some algea scrubing.

Not that I have heard of, but anything is possible. I imagine it could be made to work as a quasi-ATS type of setup. The diameter of the wheel packs a lot of surface area in a pretty moderate amount of space.

Originally posted by Zacrifice
anything new happening Brett?

Not a whole lot. But I have solved my aquascaping quandry. I was going to hold off on posting anyting until I had something to show, but I realized that will be several months.

So....

I was mixing up some 2-part epoxy that my vivarium manufacturer sent me and it suddenly hit me that my rockwork in the viv looks somewhat similar to an underwater rock wall (albeit really clean and void of a any life forms) So, after a little thought I realized that I might be able to retrofit the low-light tank using some kind of modular rock similar to the ideas I had originally kicked around.

So the current plan is to fabricate textured rock panels and silicone them to the insides of the tank when finished.

Here's the interior of the viv. Try and picture something like that in a 90 gal cube encrusted with corraline, and covered in corals and inverts.

It's going to take a me a while to do all the prep work and and a few weeks for the guy to texture everything so I'm figuring it will be end of April or first of May before I can install it.

Brett

[Zacrifice]

Hey Brett
that will look fantastic

have you thought about using rubber that you can paint onto rocks and you can make a mold out of it, you just find something in nature you like, paint it all once its set you pull it off and fill it was your choice of filler (its made for plaster but will work perfectly fine with concreate or agrocrete stuff)

but your original idea will be great, I can't wait to see it!!!!!

[shaw]

thanks, wonder if a regular person (by that i mean a college kid), could make a similar eco-whell. wonder if there are any plans somewhere
thanks
shawn

[gwrulzmylife]

This sounds like a super project!

[kansas1051]

the people who make the eco-wheel have a patent on the system which fully described its operation and construction

[pablum]

Eco-wheel Patent (http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=US006158386&SectionNum=1&IDKey=D4B1E492F2D1&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526p=1%2526u=/netahtml/search-bool.html%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526co1=AND%2526d=ptxt%2526s1='aquatic%252Bengineers'%2526OS=%252 6RS=)

[edgarsmith]

Facinating system, but do you have to choose between bubbles & nitrate?

Could you possibly tilt & brace filter to gain enough room to remove wheel?

You mentioned siliconing prefab rock panels to side of tank. Neat idea. By accident I discovered that GE clear silicone sets underwater, and fairly quickly too. I kid you not. I have used this method a number of times to glue things to the sides of a full tank. It will raise the PH temporarily. I had no coral at the time, but it did not seem to bother the fish or little tubeworms & bugs. I used scrap plastic to brace it until it was set.

Exactly what kind of lights are on the algae filter? Do you set them on the floor when you harvest algae? Can you show some pics of the algae lighting system?

BTW, I agree with your asymetrical look. Flat would not have looked so nice.

[piercho]

I did have a problem with one of the CSL PC quads breaking - seems one of those little glass connectors between the main light tubes decided to fracture and kill the light. I've made a daylight simulator for our living room using a Venture 150W 4500K DE bulb and a M102 ballast. Spectrum on the bulb is good for daylight simulation and the bulb has been dependable for 16 hour days for several months. Bulb will be cheaper than a PC 96W bulb, and last longer, I'd guess. Should be easy to clean in an aquarium DE pendant, not much to do but wipe down the pendant glass with white vinegar weekly. I'd think a good DE fixture would get tighter focus of the light down on the wheel than PC could. Nothing against PC, just think I'd prefer a compact DE pendant for that application. If your ballast to lamp lead length will run over 4', I'd go with a M81 ballast as the ignitor is better for a longer lamp cord than the M102 ignitors, which are usually only rated for 2' or 4'. I've got a good source for HID ballasts and less than box quantities of uncommon DE bulbs dropped shipped for low cost, if you are interested. Deals mostly in commercial but was willing to accommodate me.

He shared with me that when he pulled the bioballs he saw a reduction, but it came at the expense of microbubbles being returned to one of the two tanks. I was initially leary of microbubbles from my lift, but I no longer mind them, and push my lift to the point that it returns a pretty foamy mix. For some reason, I don't get salt creep from the microbubbles. Actually got more creep when I ran with pumps and powerheads. Just a fine dust of salt near to the water level. For pictures, they really suck, but otherwise, IMO, no problems.

Your tank is interesting and I'm glad you keep up with the posts. The high nitrates intriques me. Adey tracked his nitrates + nitrites in the Carribean reef tank, and I think they ran below what a hobbyist would be able to measure without special eqt. Comparable to real reef levels. And his volume to scrubber surface area ratio was not as high as yours is, I'd guess. I wonder why you aren't N-limited like I'd expect you to be, like I think that I am without a scrubber. Interesting. I've finaly come up with plans for a scrubber for my tank that I can live with, just have to wait to grow the n*ts to drill a big hole in the tank back. Please keep up the posts.

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by edgarsmith
Facinating system, but do you have to choose between bubbles & nitrate?

Could you possibly tilt & brace filter to gain enough room to remove wheel?

I'm not sure yet. Morgan Lidster said one of his tanks had a problem with bubbles and one did not. I suspect I'll be ok as my tanks are somewhat deep and the incoming water has to travel upwards thru 30" deep enfluent boxes before it spills over into the tank. I would imagine what few bubbles I have remaining would most likely dissipate during that time.

Can't tilt the filter forward as it hangs up on the front opening of the cabinet. It's either go straight up and try to dissassemble the wheel as I pull it out or disconnect the plumbing and slide the filter out and set it on the floor. That's a 2 man job at best.

Originally posted by edgarsmith
You mentioned siliconing prefab rock panels to side of tank. Neat idea. By accident I discovered that GE clear silicone sets underwater, and fairly quickly too. I kid you not. I have used this method a number of times to glue things to the sides of a full tank. It will raise the PH temporarily. I had no coral at the time, but it did not seem to bother the fish or little tubeworms & bugs. I used scrap plastic to brace it until it was set.

I'm planning to drain the tank during the install. During installation I put in valves so I could isolate one tank from the other. This is the reason I have been holding off on stocking the low-light tank as whatever goes in, has to come back out and into a couple trash cans for the afternoon.

Originally posted by edgarsmith
Exactly what kind of lights are on the algae filter? Do you set them on the floor when you harvest algae? Can you show some pics of the algae lighting system?

It's basically a CSL black plastic hood sized to fit atop the filter. It contains 2 PC quads - 96w each I believe? ballasts and a cooling fan.

When I harvest the algae I merely lift the light unit up until I can set it atop the center cabinet. This way it is out of the way but I can still use the light to see what I am doing.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the ideas and offer on the light replacement it might very well come down to something like that in the future. I just ordered a pair of PC replacements but at what they want for those things I will most likely be shopping for alternatives when their time is done.

You're right about a light salt dusting instead of actual salt spray. It's almost like a fine powder. The lid on the filter is recessed and as a result it seals reasonably well. But there is a 3/4" PVC vent on the backside that exhausts the 4cfm form the air pump. You can actually hear a steady "whoosh" from the escapig air. Pitty it is so salt laden as I'd love to direct it at my MH pendants as a repalcement for the electric cooling fans.

I'm going to attack the nitrates from a couple fronts. One thing that concerns me is the lack of mechanical filtration combined with my liquid feeding is producing a lot of detritus. So I'm planning a big cleaning party in the upcoming weeks. That combined with the removal of the bio balls will hopefully net me a bit of progress.

Also, I'm still dialing in the the algae cultivation. After more than 6 months I've still only got about 50% coverage on the wheel. However, what I do have is an abundance of corraline. I've been scraping some and leaving the rest to see it it has an effect. So far it's kinda a toss up. The stuff I leave grows algae kinda sporadically. The stuff I scrape takes the good algae with it and as a result starts the grow process anew. This works well for a month or so until the corraline gets a foot hold again. So I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

Either way, I've got another vacation in April so there will be lot's of time to work on old stuff as well as some new. Next up on the drawing board will be the backdrops, a constant drip system for my liquid food and a slide out shelf with a tray for when I'm working in the tank.

Brett

[salty joe]

What is CSL?

[firemouth4416]

You might try a bulb that will grow algea but not coraline? Maybe a different light with a low Kelvin number? I always hear that you can have an algea bloom with bad lights? Just an Idea to toss out.

[H20ENG]

"What is CSL?"
Custom Sea Life.
Just a brand name of compact flourescent bulbs and fixtures. No longer in business I hear...

[matt & pam]

So if you were just starting off with a new eco-wheel system, would you go for an alternative light source, i.e., not get the lights from aquatic engineers (or whoever it is that makes the eco-wheel now)?

[Putawaywet]

Last I heard Chris has a few light units left but with CSL out of the game he's currenty researching a replacement source. But I believe he intends to find something of the same or similar. Shouldn't be too big of a prob as ABS hoods with PC's are a pretty popular setup.

Then again, depending on what rumor you believe, CSL may or may not be coming back under a different name.

But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't swap. It's just that there is a pretty big gap between available surface area and currently producing surface area, and that's bothering me.

The real problem is I'm kinda genetically predisposed to constantly try and make things work better and I cant help but play with things. Sometimes it's fun and relaxing, other times it drives me to drink :)

Brett

[matt & pam]

So the light exposure is just focused mostly on the top section? What is the kelvin rating of the bulbs? The eco-wheel systems I've seen were completed covered in turf algae, I'll have to check if they modified their lights or replaced with alternative bulbs. Thanks.

Matt

[matt & pam]

This is a comment I received from LFS I'm planning to buy eco-wheel from. Their tank is a 180gal tank with calcium reactor.

"We have 3-65 watt 10K PC bulbs over the wheel, and 3-250 watt MH bulbs over the main tank, and 2-160 watt actinic VHO bulbs over the main tank. If you are asking about the pc bulbs, we have kept them as is for 2.5-3 years. We are finding that coraline algae is growing on the wheel and the screens. We had to clean the wheel and one of the screens b/c the weight on the wheel was slowing it too much. The tank is doing great even though we did the heavy cleaning."

[picture the reef]

Matt, What LFS are you planning to buy from?

[matt & pam]

The Aquatic Critter in Nashville. I thought about looking at a place in Indiana as well, but that store never showed any interest in contacting me back about questions. I'm convinced that Ken is the person to deal with. Now, I wish I didn't have to pay TN sales tax. You know any secrets?

[Dragon Wrasse]

Custome Sea Life is still around.....I beleive what occurred was that the one of the BIG BOSSES bought the company and has changed the name of it. This company will continue to provide the same quality built goods.....probably under a differnt name.....................Man I wish I could remember the name

Any how I will attempt to find the name it is under and repost.

[edgarsmith]

Can anyone reccomend the best light for an ATS? wattage and manufacturer and model #?

[Putawaywet]

There's a few of us out there that would like the answer to the very question ourselves, myself included.

Generally, anything from NO bulbs up to MH will work. Different bulb types grow different varieties of algae. Way too many variables involved to give you a specific answer.

Brett

[caevan]

http://www.greatsagehabibi.com/aquaria/myreef/tank07042004.jpg

I thought I would add a picture of my Eco-wheel tank that has been running for over 2 years.
I would have to be possibley the only reefer in Australia running an Eco-wheel tank.
To save on shipping costs I just purchased the Eco-wheel assembly, with modified Influent and effluent boxes. Everything else was built locally with the help of Chris from AE.
Instead of power compacts as lighting, I use a 175w MH 5000K lamp as the light source for the eco-wheel. Due to the design of the wheel you should expect to get more algae growth on some sections of the wheel over others. The wheel should not do more than 4 rpm ( this is very important). When operating correctly a typical rotation will involve the wheel slowing down alsmost to a stop, then speeding up again.

I would not advocate the removal of the bio balls, I have not and have zero Nitrates. Actually nitrates have never been a problem in this tank.

[caevan]

I forgot to add, I put a 1 cm layer of fine sand in the base of the ecowheel tank, this now has a large population of worms, pods and star fish as a result I get little to no deutritis build up.

[matt & pam]

caevan,
Would you share your thoughts why you choose MH lighting for the eco-wheel vs the PC? Thanks.

Nice tank, BTW.

[SPC]

Originally posted by caevan
I get little to no deutritis build up.

Where does it go?
Steve

[caevan]

Originally posted by matt & pam
caevan,
Would you share your thoughts why you choose MH lighting for the eco-wheel vs the PC? Thanks.

Nice tank, BTW.

I would have gone with PC lighting, but in the end I would have had to build my own fitting. This way I was resuing the 175w ballast and fitting I had from my previous scrubber.

After consulting with Chris Limcaco at Aquatic Engineers, he thought it was a viable alternative, especially since they use similar lighting on their industrial systems. Instead of using an acrylic lid on the ecowheel tank I use a tempered glass lid.

[caevan]

Originally posted by SPC
Where does it go?
Steve

I assume the numerous pods and worms living in and on the base of the eco-wheel tank are consuming it. I regularly check the tank and apart from all the life, the sand is remarkably clean especially after running for over 2 years continuously.

[matt & pam]

Brett,
Any updates on your tanks?

[Putawaywet]

Actually, yes.... just give me a couple days to take some more pics and get everything written up.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Hi everyone, my apologies for slacking a bit these past few months but I discovered just how incredibly slow things move when you are operating on mother nature's timetable. And since I didn't want to bore all of you with my original month-by-month account of what was fast amounting to a whole lot of nothing, I thought it might be prudent to wait until there was actually something worth reporting. But with that being said, I'm happy to share that things are still chugging along nicely and except for a few small hiccups I am still as happy with the system as I was the day I started this project. So, without further delay here's the latest on my tanks as I approach the one year anniversary.....

Overall, the system is still doing well and nearly everything is functioning as designed. As of the last update I have had no mechanical breakdowns, failures or any other major life-altering issues that have had to be dealt with. This includes the ******* tanks, the EcoWheel system itself, or the custom cabinetry that houses it all. However, that's not to say there haven't been a few speed bumps along the way that managed to rear their ugly heads.

First off, I recently noticed some rather offensive salt creep sitting on the carpet of my 90 gal cabinet. Apparently, the bulkhead of the influent box is seeping just enough to cause a noticeable buildup. I imagine at some point I will need to address this, but for the short term I just set a towel down to keep the salt off the carpet. Actually, I'm surprised it has taken this long for this to become an issue because when I first received the tanks I noticed that the holes appeared to be just a bit oversized in relation to the diameter of the bulkheads that were included. Not grossly oversized.... but enough that it caught my attention as I was installing them.

I'm also discovering (much to my frustration) that my collection of Intermatic digital lamps timers leave something to be desired in regards to long-term reliability. Even more so than the older models that I used on the last tank. It seems that several times a month I have a timer that locks up and starts flashing "no op" on the display, leaving one or more pieces of equipment (specifically my lights) stuck in either the on or off position. This then necessitates direct human intervention of the manual override variety. (Several well placed, and somewhat purposeful whacks with a rubber mallet) Surprisingly, this technique not only does an adequate job of addressing my elevated levels of aggression, but also somehow manages to fix the timer issues a good majority of the time. Unfortunately, the remainder of the time I am left with no choice but to swap out the stubborn unit with one of the backups I have now been forced to keep on hand. At last count I have about 4 that I have been unable to 'persuade' into working properly and sometime in the near future I plan to send them back to Intermatic in the hopes they might offer up some replacements in the name of good customer service.

Lastly, I had been finding myself frequently confused (which probably isn't really any big surprise to some of you) as to why my EcoWheel was stopping it's rotation when the water level of the tank was showing to still be at the appropriate mark. Well... apparently I had not really been paying very close attention to the overflow grating on the effluent boxes because over the last year they had become clogged with mini brittle stars, encrusting worms, and coralline and such. So, as water evaporated the level dropped in the filter but not the tanks due to the backup from the clogged grating. Once I figured out the problem a quick cleaning with a stiff brush solved my dilemma. (BTW, for those of you who keep firearms you might be surprised to learn that a (new) .38/.357 stainless Tornado brush on the end of a cleaning rod makes short work of those overflow cutouts.)

Fish:

Happy to report everyone is happy and accounted for. No signs disease or other adverse health issues. My blue-eyed cardinals are fat and happy and still schooling when the mood strikes them. My Pajama Cardinals have grown considerably and seem to have settled into some sort of agreeable hierarchy.

Inverts:

Unfortunately, I lost my coral banded shrimp a couple weeks back. No warning signs - just woke up one day and he wasn't out. Had him for about 3 years, give or take, and while he occasionally came up missing a main claw every 2nd or 3rd molt, he gave me several trouble free years of enjoyment. Anyone know what the life span is on these guys?

One very cool thing that I had the chance to observe was a mass spawning of my mini brittle stars. It occurred during one of my hydrocleaning sessions and I was completely amazed at how many of the little guys/girls came ambling out to sow their wild oates. It all started with a few dozen little buggers spewing a little puff of “smoke” and then kinda snowballed for the next half hour. They were not only crawling atop all of my corals, but hanging from the branches of my gorgs as well.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00041.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00030.jpg


Corals:

Lots to report here. First and foremost, I lost both my blueberry gorgs in the low-light tank. Which isn't really a huge surprise since it seemed to coincide with the time when I stopped adding my powdered food supplements. (I didn't intentionally stop, just got kind of busy, which then led to my becoming a bit lax with my water changes and I decided not to temp the water quality gods by adding copious amounts of additional nutrients.

On a related topic though, I can safely attest to the fact that one can be relatively secure in the belief that this kind of system will continue to function quite well if you ever find yourself in a position that you are able to perform only basic maintenance for any extended period of time. Because that is exactly the position I found myself in shortly after the first of the year. For approximately 2 or 3 months I became severely bogged down with other obligations and lost the forward momentum I previously had going with the tank. And as a result, I performed only a few rudimentary water changes, the bare minimum of feedings and RO top offs, as well as incredibly sporadic algae harvests. There was no water testing, no addition of powdered food supplements, nor (warning, reckless behavior ahead) any measuring of liquid supplements.... just a squirt here and there according to how I felt the tank was doing. And in spite of my best inattention, I only saw the loss of the blueberry gorgs. And, while that might not have been the sole variable that contributed to their demise, I'm sure it probably didn't help their delicate situation any.

My (purple??) plating Montipora so commonly referred to as a M.Capricornis (the one I fragged shortly after the demise of the mother colony) is doing splendidly and has grown from a thumbnail sized piece to well over 6" in diameter in the 8 or so months that I have had it. It has a nice deep green coloration and is branching out in numerous flat plates that are a far cry from the funnel-like shape that the mother colony came in with.

Additionally, it's neighbor (purple tipped Acropora) is growing well and has doubled in size. Actually, both are growing so well that they have begun to encroach upon each other's space with early indications giving the nod to the Acropora as the more dominant of the two.

A bright green Acro (???) that was kind of languishing and really wasn't sitting in the most ideal of locations received a bit of a facelift. I cut away the majority of the dead skeleton near the base, split the remaining portion onto 2 halves and epoxied them in two separate locations of the tank. It’s been a couple weeks now and so far so good. Hopefully they'll take a liking to their new home.

For most of the last year I have been on the lookout for an orange Montipora and about a month ago the opportunity presented itself at my LFS. Unfortunately, given that this one has been growing in the same funnel type of shape as the other, my expectations are not incredibly high for a smooth and trouble free acclimation. For the short term I'm keeping a close eye on it, but given that the other one took so well to fragging I'm entertaining the thought of breaking it up and distributing it to various areas around the tank. It's incredibly beautiful as is, but seeing as I have no idea as to the environmental conditions that caused it to take on it's intriguing shape, I have no alternative but to use the other one as an indicator as to what the most appropriate shape is for my tank conditions. Obviously, if I see any signs of bleaching or RTN I'll definitely have at it. But I have to admit, the idea of a half dozen colonies of an orange SPS growing throughout my tank is quite the tease.

My gorgs are still holding their own with the bronze ones doing pretty good considering what they have gone through. Although the smaller ones seem to have the largest growth spurt compared to the two bigger ones who really don’t readily appear to have grown much as all. However, nearly all bare spots have recovered and they look healthy in spite of the fact that all are just a tad bit smaller than when they were first introduced to the tank.

My knobby sea rod (???) is doing really well and there are two new branches measuring approx. 2” each that have sprouted up in the last couple months.

[Putawaywet]

New stuff:

I finally found a solution to being unable to tile under the tank prior to it being setup. I just went around it. I basically just cut out the carpet around the front and ends of the tank and started laying tile. Surprisingly it turned out really well and unless you sneak a peek behind the tank where you can still see a bit of carpet, you'd never know it wasn't actually sitting on the tile. Although I have to confess that I cheated a bit and practiced on a smaller area in the bedroom where the old tank had trashed the existing carpet just to make sure that I wasn't in over my head. Unfortunately, I think I just shot myself in the foot because after I finished the living room I suddenly began to realize how cheesy the old linoleum looks in the master bathroom. Looks like there's going to be yet another Home Depot trip in my not so distant future :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00037.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00044.jpg

I also added a constant drip-feeding system to both tanks (yet to be used) and I’m hoping to try them out in a few weeks. They're basically brine shrimp/rotifer hatching towers (originally purchased last year from Aquatic Ecosystems for a live food culture setup) and with a little bit of work I was able to suspend them from the inside of the canopies so they drip directly into the influent boxes. I basically just inverted their acrylic stand so instead of sitting atop it, the hatching cone hangs from it. I then cut an access hole in the top of the canopy so I can fill them or remove the tower for cleaning and filling. The only thing I have left to do is to tap into the PVC air feed so I can setup a little valve and length of rigid airline for some bubble action. Once it's all finished all I'll have to do is dump my milkshake into the top of the hopper, turn on the aeration and walk away while my supplements slowly drip into the tank over the course of a couple hours. At least that's the plan, only time will tell.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF_cfeed-01.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF_cfeed-02.jpg



Also, I did a major cleaning last weekend with several lengthy periods of hydro-blasting blasting via a handheld powerhead to get in all the nooks and crannies. I also hung two HOT canister filters with the pleated micron filters to catch all the crud I stirred up - which surprisingly, turned out to be a considerable amount of crud. And after seeing how much brown gunk went down the drain I decided that it might be a good idea to do this on a somewhat monthly basis. However, what I found to be most interesting was how fast the tank was able to recover from the unexpected storm. When I finally finished it was nearly around midnight and the tank was pretty murky, including a fine layer of detritus sitting atop all of my corals and tons of those little spider web things strung all over the place. Yet, a mere 8 hours later, by the time the lights had come on, the tank looked as clean as could be. It never ceases to amaze me how nature has a way of rebounding from adverse conditions.

[Putawaywet]

I also picked up a decent looking zoo rock that had some yellows, browns and orange polyps along with some organ pipe thrown in for accent. The price was right and I kinda like to orange zoos, so I guess everything else came along for the ride so to speak.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00007.jpg

And here's a shot of that plating Montipora back around February just to give you an idea of the growth I'm seeing. If you scroll back up to the pics of the brittle star spawn you'll see the same Montipora from a few weeks ago which has now grown into the adjacent purple-tipped Acropora. The white spot is where the two actually touch and while I know the bare spot looks kinda large, it's actually recovered quite a bit this week and is about half the size as it appears in the pic up above

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF00141.jpg

[Putawaywet]

The low-light tank:

Well folks, as much as I know some of you might be a bit dissappointed, I must confess that this tank sits exactly the same as it did at the time of my last update. And as much as it probably won't come as a real surprise to some of you, I have changed my mind yet again as to how it is going to be finished.

Long gone is the original idea of a pinnacle rising up to the surface of the water. Yes indeed, the pinnacle in no longer in the works, I have long since given up on that one.

Also gone are cave-like walls covered in rock and decorated with various non-photosynthetic animals such as tunicates and the like. Yep, hasta la vista on that as well!

And lastly, as much as it pains me to say this, gone is the whole idea of the low-light tank itself, if for no other reason than the never-ending labor involved in maintaining something of this magnitude. This past year has afforded me the opportunity to get a feel for the labor that is required of a system of this size and I have finally come to realize that I just don't have the time or energy to devote to keeping things that derive their nutritional requirements solely from the passing water. Things that require meticulous water quality, things that can whither away to absolute nothingness in the span of a few short days. And as intriguing as this idea still sounds, human nature being what it is, I 've evaluated my abilities and energies and have come to understand that it would be only a matter of time before the excitement wore off and I found myself stuck in the day-to day drudgery of micromanaging an incredibly fragile ecosystem. So, I am saying my goodbyes to that idea and moving on.

However, out of the darkness comes light in the form of something new. And this time around you have my promise that I will see it through to the end. Actually, I have already taken steps to making it happen and with a little bit of luck I will have a finished tank in a couple months.

But first, a little background on my idea.....

My idea hinges on something visually attractive, yet relatively easy on the maintenance. It also had to be something rather unique and not often seen in home aquaria as I suffer from this overwhelming desire to take the path less traveled. I wanted color, uniqueness, interest, and if nothing else, a pleasing and good looking display that would compliment the beauty of my reef tank on the opposite end.

However, until everything starts to come together I am unable to offer anything more then a few pics of one component of the project. But I will tell you the specifics on what you are seeing in the pics

[Putawaywet]

A few weeks ago I stumbled upon something at my LFS that stirred my imagination. It wasn't all that noticible at first, nor was it even sitting in an area that I even pay much attention to when I frequent the locale. Nope! It was actually sitting on the highest shelf in an off-traveled corner directly above where one would find the plastic pirate ships and annimated treasure chests.

But nonetheless it caught my eye because I had seen nothing like it and I decided that it warranted a closer look.

And in a few seconds what I found myself examining was one of those molded plastic or resin tank decorations made to look like an old pipe ...an old cast iron sewer pipe if you will, and it had obviously been made to appear as thoguh it had seen some better days because it had tons of molded in character.

However, even though it had good character, some pretty good molding quality and a small bit of coloring, it was pretty bare in it's former self and wasn't really anything to write home about. But I bought it because I thought it had some potential.

Then, a few days later I started fomulating my plan and I jumped on the computer to start researching my new project. I quickly found a company (local no less) that specializes in public aquarium and zoo exhibit fabrication and ordered up a bunch of urethane castings that looked like what I wanted.

Unfortunately, the nice painted castings on the website arrived unpainted leaving me with a lot more work than I had originally planned.

Now, I'm not any formally trained artist by any stretch of the imagination, but I can paint a pretty mean model airplane or tank, and actually have some pretty good basic skills in weathering and distressing minitures. So, I decided to just jump in and start tearing it up.

The first step was to remove the molded in fake rock base the thing sat on. This was easily accomplished with a cutoff wheel in a dremel tool. However, this left a pretty ragged base that needed a lot of work. So, I cut out a couple acrylic circles from some scrap plastic I had laying around and started epoxying it to the base. After that I started massaging in some 2-part aquastick to fill in the gaps and covered the outside of the buildup with some JB weld that I textured with the help of a piece of crumpled up aluminum foil. After that I stated gluing on the individual accent pieces. A couple 8-10 hours later, out came the paints. A few paint washes of rust here, a little dab of color there, and before I knew it the thing was starting to look pretty realistic. The last step in the process will be a thin coating of clear resin to protect the paint and give it a good durable outer coating.

I think I have approx $100.00 invested, which isn't all that bad considering what I would have paid to have a professional fabricate something like this for me. Overall, I'm incredibly happy with the results.

Here's the finshed product......


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF01.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF02.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF03.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF04.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF05.jpg



......Ok, that's about all I have for now, but another vacation is approaching and not only do I have a ton of misc. work to do on the system itself, but I need to get hopping on the rest of my new project so I can hurry up and see the finished product :)

Regards,

Brett

[Flatlander]

Thanks for the updates Brett. The 180 is "lookin good". :D

[H20ENG]

Nice work on the castings, Brett!
D.L. Manwarren has some great stuff. They did our touchpools, and it was an experience to watch all these talented people crawling all over the wet cement, carving and shaping it into real-looking rockwork. Nice folks, too.
Cant wait to see your "new" tank!
We had a "junk" tank that represented a wharf wall, and we had bottles, a tire, pilings, etc in it. It was a very cool tank with tons of life.
Have fun!
Chris

[Putawaywet]

Flatlander: thanks - I'm planning on some full tankshots after I have a chance to clean the walls in a couple / three weeks. It's been almost 6 months since I've taken anything besides closeups.

Chris: LBAOP has something like that as well and it's really an amazing tank that I feel is totally underrated. There must be 50 fish and inverts in there but you only see about 1/3 of them at any one time because they are always blending in with all that junk.

I actually got the chance to vistit DLM and it's a pretty impressive place. Numerous Rock castings in various stages of completion sitting nearly everywhere, shipwreck parts stacked in all the out of the way corners. And we're talking full sized repro ship hatches complete with hinges, handles, portholes etc. Not to mention that thier showroom has tons of pics of all the work they have done over the last 30 years. Pretty much a who's who of public aquariums and zoos.

Brett

[H20ENG]

DLM is definitely one of the better companies out there doing artificial structures.,
BTW, I have some of those barnacles you have:) It was cool watching them paint on the coralline algae. Just acrylic paint, dabbed on, with white on the edges- looks real! (Til the brown turf grew over it from the bay water)
Get busy on that tank! :D

[qwuintus]

I have seen this large bio-wheel sold at pool supply stores. is it possible to use it?
The thing though is that each 'wing' on the the wheel is alot closer than the eco wheel.

[picture the reef]

Qwuintus, just noticed your avatar. Are you connected with Benchmade. If so pm me. The moderators may become upset if we discuss in open forum.;)

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by qwuintus
I have seen this large bio-wheel sold at pool supply stores. is it possible to use it?
The thing though is that each 'wing' on the the wheel is alot closer than the eco wheel.

Depends on the material that it is made of. Turf algaes will colonize many surfaces to varying degrees so it's hard to say for sure. But the principle is pretty basic. Wet it with used saltwater, expose it to light, and nature will do the rest.

Might prove an interesting experiment though to have a large bio wheel illuminated as it turns to see what types and to what concentrations the algae will grow. About the only concern I'd have would be how well the material they used would hold up to the maintenance that is required during the harvesting or nutrient export part of the equation.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Geez... must be nice to be so popular that you can afford to turn business away :confused: After several calls and conversations with DLM I just can't seem to get a quote out of them. Even though I keep hearing they do small jobs like this all the time for home tanks and can turn something like this out in a week, all I'm hearing when I call back about that estimate is how crazy it's been this week, or how they're trying to finish up this huge order by Friday yada, yada, yada.

Even C.O.S.T. of Wisconsin who was originally interested enough to return my call and promise an estimate after hearing what I was looking for never got back to me. "No problem, we do stuff like this all the time, give me a few days to get an estimate together and call you back...." Yep, never heard from them again.

So, while I'm going to keep hammering on DLM I'm not the type to sit around waiting on others to get their you know what together. I've already ordered the stuff I need to do my own casting and if need be I'll fabricate the whole thing myself. Guess you can never learn to many skills in this hobby.

So if that turns out to be the case that blows my timetable all to heck!

One thing is for sure.... wish my H.S. shop class would have offered something really useful instead showing me how to make those darn fruit bowls or signs with your family name routed out. Something like acrylic fabrication or carbon fiber layup sure would have been nice :)

Brett

[qwuintus]

carbon fiber would be awesome....

I may give the pool wheel a shot...

I have seen the eco wheel and saw mass ammounts of algae on them. Are they still supposed to turn after all that junk is there? And do you ever clean it off?

[H20ENG]

What kind of wheel would be used for ANY swimming pool?
Ahhh, I think you are talking about a pleated pool filter cartridge. Its polyester, so would be fine, but not sure how it'd hold up to the algae being yaked off of it. They work great for bio-wheels, though. We made one out of a smaller filter once.

[qwuintus]

So how often do you have to scrape the algae off?

http://www.aquaticengineers.com/images/algae_wheel_tys_model_12_d.jpg

[Putawaywet]

About every week to 10 days give or take.

Or whenever I remember to.

Whichever comes first

Brett

[qwuintus]

I was wondering what the airpump is for, and how it works.

[matt & pam]

Brett,

Are you manually topping off evaporation, or have you automated? Where have you placed heaters, pH probes, etc.?

Are you happy with the egg crate you added to the eco-wheel?

Your tank looks great. Hopefully one day I'll get my tank going.

Thanks.

Matt

[qwuintus]

Can you post pics of your design?

heres what I was talking about earlier
http://di.image.eshop.msn.com/img/sinv/2842/15/1253715.jpg

http://www.gardengames.co.uk/acatalog/filtersml.jpg

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by qwuintus
I was wondering what the airpump is for, and how it works.

If you read the first few posts I made on page one of this thread you'll find a relatively detailed answer to that question.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by matt & pam

Are you manually topping off evaporation, or have you automated?

Still manually topping off with Kalk. I have 2 5gal jugs each tapped with a spigot that I just swap out every 2-3 days. When the water level begins to look a little low I just open the tap and drip some kalk for a few hours. There's a part of me that says there's a bettwer way, and another part that allows me to sleep soundly at night knowing that in spite of the labor, it's relatively idiot proof.

Where have you placed heaters, pH probes, etc.?

My heater is hidden in one of the influent boxes. No probes. I guess I'm one of those old school guys who just breaks out the test kits when things start looking a little "off". You know it's one of those.... "My star polyps have been closed all day wonder what's bothering them" kind of things. And as for powerheads - why would you want any of those? IMO, that would be kinda counter productive and defeats one of the biggest benefits of a system like this. Besides, there go your bragging rights :D (Secrets be told, I did consider it briefly at the beginning - kinda hard to put blind trust in a couple corner influent boxes but eventually the design wins you over and you realize it is indeed working) No doubt I could probably get more growth from a larger turnover, but then again, the same could most likely be said if I upgraded my lighting to 400w bulbs.

Are you happy with the egg crate you added to the eco-wheel?

Yes, it's packed with sponges, tube worms and other misc. organisms. It's defintely looking like I had hoped, but to be honest, I still have no way of honestly judging how well it is working. However, it also adds more places for aiptasias to grab onto and the little buggers are defintely making the most of the situation. So far, none in my displays inspite of the hundred or so going like gangbusters in the filter. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Your tank looks great. Hopefully one day I'll get my tank going.

Thanks, it's definitely a labor of love. I spent many years planning for this system and it feels really good to finally have it all coming together. I think what really helps, at least for me, is that the journey is as much of the process as the end result is. I thoroughly enjoy designing and fabricating so my ideas fuel the fires so to speak. As much as I enjoy the tank as it sits, I'm constantly thinking "what next?". But with that being said, it also feels really really good to know 99% of the work is behind me rather than the other way around.

So, all I can say is don't lose sight of the big picture and try to keep things in perspective. You'll have yours up and running before you know it and you can pick up where I leave off.

Brett

[matt & pam]

no plans for power heads. However am thinking about a litermeter or similar peristaltic pump for top off.

[picture the reef]

Matt, As I told you in one of my pm's to you the Litermeter in conjunction with a Kalk reactor is some of the best money I have spent on the tank.:D

[Putawaywet]

Update 08/29/04

Made the most of my vacation last week and spent a good deal of time working on the tank.

I somehow managed to get the wheel assembly up and out of the filter box and all I have to say is.....

Not again anytime soon sports fans!!!!!!

Just the fact I got it out of there was a miracle in itself. I literally spent an hour and a half muscling my way along, cursing and swearing that I was never going to do this again.

Then, after I decided to use my brain instead of my brawn, I somehow cultivated an idea that showed promise. And although I didn’t break any speed records, the wheel was out and sitting on a plastic tarp just in time for me to take a break for lunch.

The remainder of the day was spent disassembling, scrubbing and generally cleaning as much of the wheel that I could (sans areas where the algae is cultivated.) before it was placed in a Rubbermaid trash bucket filled with tank water to keep it wet until I finished everything else up.

After that is was just a matter of scrubbing down the inside of the acrylic filter compartment, removing the bioballs and eggcrate and siphoning any detritus in the bottom of the filter.

The eggcrate and Matala was inspected for any aiptasia and those that were found were injected with straight Strontium via an insulin syringe. (Still missed quite a few though)

The nice thing was I really didn’t have to have the filter offline all that long as it still moves water without the wheel assembly in place. I merely shut it down while scrubbing and siphoning the interior and then turned it back on while I was dinking with everything else.

I made the decision to not put the bioballs back into the filter as they were pretty packed with aiptasia and I really didn’t want to take the time to try and eradicate them without killing the bacteria and any other benneficial organisms. So I just tossed them in the rubbermaid trash can for safe keeping. (Running the filter w/o the bioballs is giving me a small amount of microbubbles in both of the tanks, but it’s not really something that appears to bother much of anything. In all honesty, you really have to get up pretty close to see them at all. But yes, they’re there if you look hard enough.)

After everything was back together (only took 45 minutes this time to get the wheel assembly back in) I swapped out both PC quads above the EcoWheel for a couple fresh bulbs and did a 50 gal H20 change before calling it a day.

One thing that I want to note is during all of this I had the opportunity to inspect the wheel bearings for wear and other than a couple scratches that I wrote off as being caused from an errant grain of sand or two, there is no visible signs of wear. However, I did find a pretty good buildup of sludge/slime on the inside of the uplift tube which no doubt is probably something that is pretty consistant throughout the rest of the pipes. Most of you know what I’m talking about - that brown coating that you can see when you dissemble you piping. So, as much as it was somethng I expected, it was still a bit disheartening to see it in person and know that it was putting a dent into my overall flow numbers.

The next several days were spent scrubbing and vaccumming all the influent/effluent boxes as well as the inside of the tanks themselves to remove all the accumulated crud that had built up over the past year. I thne did another water change and added a cannister filter filled with carbon.

After everything was said and done, the Xenia growing up the side wall was gone, as were the 2 large Sarcophytons (Toadstool leathers) that were just getting too large for the space that was available. So I found them a new home with some trusted friends. A bunch of other smaller misc. pieces that just never really seemed to fit in with the game plan also went home with my neighbor.

I made the decision to break up one of the orange Monti’s, mounting the 3 pieces in various locations throughout the tank.

I also ordered some of the new IceCap reflectors for my T5 lights and swappped out the TEK’s that were on there previously. I really like these new reflectors and from what I can tell, they are every bit comparable to the TEK’s with an added plus of a really simple, but trick bracket on both ends that is designed to reinforce the reflector and reduce the twisting and flexing.

While the canopy was off for the reflector swap I took the opportunity to clean my MH pendants, reflectors, glass shields, fans etc. I also added another coat of polyurethane to areas that were looking a little beat up from all the salt exposure.

Also got around to finishing up all the leftovers in the Reef cabinet (misc carpeting, wire wraps, replaced batteries in lamp timers, etc.) including retrofitting my IceCap 660 ballast into the spare Sunlight Supply ballast box that I aquired the beginning of the year. Although it turned out to be several hours of work, it was a pretty straight forward DIY that gives me 3 matching ballast boxes inside my stand and eliminates the ghetto mess I initially tossed together to get the T5’s up and running.

I did run into a pretty significant problem while crawling around under the middle cabinet - it seems that I missted 1 very important glue joint afterall. Specifically, one of the joints that feeds directly into the air injection site on the uplift. And of course, much to Mr. Murphy’s enjoyment, I discover this the day after I had drained, cleaned and refilled the filter box. So, I’m now between a rock and a hard place because as soon as I seperate the joint the airflow comes to a screaching halt allowing the water to come racing down out of the filter that sits directly above, or either of the two tanks that feed the uplift. Been studying the situation for the last several days trying to come up with a way to glue it together without flooding my nicely carpeted cabinet. think I’m going to have to keep working on this one for a while :)

The lowlight tank took another step foward as I received a quote last week for the new project that is in the works. Of course it also came with the caveat that he is extremely backed up due to some approaching deadlines and employees that are off due to illness. But promises were made that I would be happy with the results if I was willing to be patient. So, the saga of the tank that just “won’t be” appears to be forever ongoing.

FWIW, I currently have one of the new IceCap 70w MH pendants on order for this tank to see what kind of point source lighting I can get without pounding the tank with massive amouts of light. It’s supposed to be here is another week or so, so I’ll have to wait and see how it looks. From what I’m reading on the initial testing, it’s supposed to pack a pretty good punch, but throw a relatively narrow spread of light. Apparently, it’s caught the attention of the nano tank folks who think it has merit for their smaller tanks.

Other than that, the system is looking really good on it’s one year anniversary and I’m currently shopping for a few last “must have” corals or gorgs to fill in some of the last remaining spaces. kijnda hard to believe it’s only been a year and I’m extremely close to being out of room.

Also, as I write this I’m looking back on all the time and money that I have put into this project, along with all the work I’ve accomplished and all the custom stuff that I’ve had to fabricate and I can’t help but wonder.....

[Putawaywet]

My god, what on earth was I thinking??? :)

So until the next update, here are a few pics of everything after all the maintenance was finshed and everything was all back together......

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Here's a really nice rock I stumbled across while at the LFS one day. One of those in the right place at the right time sort of things.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0007.jpg

And here's a shot of my purple-tipped acro growing into my plating montipora. Coral agression is really a pretty cool thing... first the Monti bleaches a 1/8" or so amount of tissue along the adjacent edge and then a week or so later the skeleton has just dissolved to allow the acro the space it needs. The acro is literally dissolving the montipora skeleton as it advances. Which so far, appears to be acceptable with the Monti who just keep growing in every other direction except towards it's neighbor.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0045.jpg

A nice straight on shot of the tank taken with full lighting and no flash.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0100.jpg

And the same angle wih the flash

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0095.jpg

And one at an angle with flash

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0069.jpg

Closeup of left side showing some additions and changes

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0034.jpg

If for no other reason than I think it's a nice shot of my bubble.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0113.jpg

And lastly, the tank with a peek at the (almost) finished cabinet

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0013.jpg

[picture the reef]

Brett, which bulbs did you replace the PC's in the wheel tank with? Brand, Color temp, etc.?

[Putawaywet]

Chris still had some CSL's in stock so I had him send me 4 of the 10k's

I originally started out with 10's because CSL goofed and shipped my unit with those instead of the 5500's. Once Chris got some 55's he sent me some of those, but after I put 2 of those in I started losing all of the green algae in favor of that short red velvet stuff which was slower growing and harder to harvest.

So... I'm now mixing 1 5500 with 1 10,000 and so far that seems to be working well.

Also, FWIW, from a side by side comparison as I was switching them out the quads lose a lot of intensity after about 6 months which is how long the ones I was taking out had been in there.

Brett

[picture the reef]

Brett, very interesting since the first ones I got were the 7100/ 10k combination lamps. All I have ever had was the reddish algae. Where did your starter algae screen come from. Mine came from IA and when I asked about replacing the bulb the 5500's were suggested to me. What do you think?

[Putawaywet]

I got mine from Morgan over at IA as well.

That's strange because when I switched out both the original bulbs to the 55's (which I was told should have come with the lighting unit) the red algae started out-competing the green in a month or so.

Then when I decided to mix the bulbs I began getting the green stuff again.

Don't know if one type of algae is better than the other in regard to nutrient processing, but the green is way easier IMO to harvest than the fuzzy red stuff.

The only real bummer is both bulbs appear to grow corraline equally well :( :( :(

Brett

[matt & pam]

Brett,
Looks like you have a shallow sand bed. I was thinking of a 2-3 inch bed for my tank. Any thoughts whether a deeper sand bed would be helpful for overall stability of water chemistry?

anything happening in the other side of the tank?

Matt

[skylsdale]

Phewy on the 180 gal...I want to see the "other side." C'mon man...

[Putawaywet]

Skysdale -

Sorry about the delay but I'm in a holding pattern with the custom pieces I contracted out to DLM. They're suppossedly working on them, but..... I'm calling this week to get an update.

Also, I'm trying out IceCap's new spot pendant over the 90 gal so I just spent the evening working on the install for that. It's the lightweight 70w version so I think it's going to be real interesting to see how that works out. Regardless, it's a sweet setup so if even if it winds up being not everything I was hoping for I think the small tank folks are going to really like the thing.

matt & pam -

Wish I had an answer for you on the sandbed quandry but about all I can say is I have always used some form of substrate, and unless my thinking changes dramatically somewhere in the distant future, I more than likely always will.

Right now I'm running about an inch give or take, but have used up to 4" in the past on my previous tank. I've never been a devotee of of strict DSB deciplines so brand/depth is usually determined by what I'm trying to do with the tank.

One thing I will say is my salt and pepper sandbed has about run it's couse and I'm probably going to change it out sometime here soon. Primarily because of how dingy it's beginning to look. I know I started off singing it's praises, but over the past year the amount of rubble that has found it's way into the sandbed has made a pretty big dent on the nice clean look that it used to have. Also, I'm currently keeping a Dragon goby which thoroughly loves taking a big mouthful of sand and then sifting thru it while swimming upwards over the reef. Needless to say, I spend a good amount of time blowing sand off of my rocks and corals.

Think I'm going to try something a little more coarse.... perhaps a mix of #1 and #5 grade and even some larger sized rubble thrown in to mix it up.

Brett

[gstark]

Brett
have just recently joined this forum and was thrilled to find your account of the ecowheel system. Had always wondered if it worked . Thanks for sharing your experiences. Think I may use this type of system on my new tank. I'm thinking of remoteing the
scrubber to the greenhouse and plumb through the wall to the tank. Was thinking of a 150 to 200 gallon system for the main tank. Hate wasting all that glorious Florida sunshine between hurricanes lol.
Haven't read the whole account of your setup as yet Again thanks for sharing the experiences with it.
Hopefullu I'll be able to ask some intelligent questions in the near future lol.
One for right now. How do you access the old pix from the beginning of the thread??
Gary

[Putawaywet]

Hi Gary,

Glad to hear you are getting something useful out of all of this.

When I began considering going this route there was very little info out there (I did find find a few people who had them but you can only send so many emails before you feel like you're being a pest.)

As far as the pics I'm not sure what I can do about that. Several months back the site admin made the decision to discontinue allowing direct posting (uploading) of jpeg images to the board because they were bogging the site down. The unfortunate part was it was retroactive to all previous images that met that criteria and they were purged from existing threads.

Of course, those who linked direct to their gallery here, or outside picture hosting sites were/are not affected.

I've considered uploading all the pics to my gallery and then seeing if a mod can edit my previous posts to add in the links. My gut feeling is at the least, it's going to be a lot of work to try and communicate what pics go where and will prob take numerous pm's to make it happen .

So, until I can come up with a fix if there are any pics that you think you'd be particularly interested in feel free to speak up and I can email them to you.

Brett

[gstark]

Brett
I'm just sort of in the planning stages at the moment. have been out of SW for many years but the hurricanes called for some serious remodeling of the house. Have been thinking of setting up a marine tank and thought this might be a good opportunity to use some of the newer ideas into the setup.
Such as solar tubes ,ecowheel fitration and settling tanks as well as making my own live rock and the use of insulation foam.
My attached orchid house was badly damaged and will require complete overhaul. i could now use this as an area for the remote filtration area rather than my large vivaria and orchids.
Just getting ideas together on how to go about this where to locate things and deciding on what I want to keep. The solar tube idea particularly piqued my interest as the roof must be redone anyway. The main tank will probably be located in a walkin closet in the 150 to 200 gallon range. will probably build my own tank and systems.Figured if i'm going to do it might as well do it right.
Have started a notebook to gather ideas and assess the practicality of them. Really don't know what I'm specifly looking for at the moment.
I've heard many good things about the algae scrubber systems but this is the first actual discussion I've run accross.
I appreciate your help and I'm sure i will become a pest in the future lol.
gary

[Putawaywet]

While the EcoWheel filter can be remotely located I'm not sure if it can be THAT remotely located. You'll probably need to email Aquatic Engineers to see what Chris thinks of putting the filter out in the orchid house.

If the distance winds up being too great I think you'll probably need some kind of pressure pump to get back to the tank, and if that's the case, you're going to defeat the whole purpose of the EcoWheel. At that point, I'd say just setup a big ATS type of tray, use the sun to grow your algae and run a dump bucket or carlson type of surge to move water across the screens.

Brett

[gstark]

Hi
Thanks for the ideas.Actually it wouldn't be that remote as it
would be possible to have them back to back.Just a wall dividing them. The greenhouse is attached to the house on two sides.
Another problem I see is where to move my 4x8 foot paludarium. Don't think "tropical lowland " and 'reef" are compatible lol. I think I'd have to choose one or the other as space would be a problem.
I've always been a plant freak and and would love to culture some of the fantastic marine specie. As for the main tank I think
I'd like it for butterflies or angels rather than a reef setup,
Probably wouldn't need the solar tubes for this type of setup
anyway and maybe tie the systems together somehow for the benefit of both.
Just doing a lot of thinking right now. No big hurry as i can't even get an estimate on the house repairs until mid Cec..lol
Love the reef tanks but also love the butterflies and angels.

Once saw an 800 tank with 25 Moorish Idols in it along with a school of Heniochus WOW!! like looking into another world.
That would be a bit out of my bank account lol.But maybe the Walmart version?? lol
Gary

[matt & pam]

Brett,

Did you install the valve for water changes in your eco-wheel, or did a.e.? Does it stand out far from the edge, i.e., does it reach your door or is there plenty of clearance? Does is allow you to change a large amount of water, or are you limited to contents in the eco-wheel chamber?

Matt

[Putawaywet]

I added the valve myself. I drilled the EcoWheel tank and installed a bulkhead and then added a 3/4" Banjo ballvalve. All in all, it sticks out about 6"-7" which includes the 1" threaded stub that connects it to the bulkhead.

I also added a quick disconnect nipple on the outer end of the valve which adds another 1 1/2". The whole thing winds up being pretty close to the door but I think I still have like a 1/2" after it is closed.

Due to the way the system works I really can't do much more than drain the filter tank, but that's like 35-40 gals which is plenty for my needs. The part that sucks is I'm still draining into 5 gal buckets and then hauling them into the bathroom. This is then followed by siphoning my jugs of makeup water to refill the tank. A complete water change takes about 20 minutes. That remote saltwater holding tank and pump is still on my "to-do" list but getting closer to reality as time goes by :)

Brett

[Putawaywet]

If anyone is still interested I'll have a big update somewhere around Sunday or so. Not real Ecowheel specific, but a bunch of new stuff to show off.

Coming up will be the newly revamped 90 gal tank, installation of the new IceCap 70w MH spot pendant and ballast enclosure (I'll be writing a review on this for IceCap in the next week or so), a new 16 gal top off reservoir and poss a new built in hydro-vac/power washer combo that I'm in the process of finishing up.

However, given how long this thread is getting I'm thinking of starting a new thread to cover the redesign of the smaller tank and all the new stuff. If I decide to do that I'll post a link on this one and those that have an interest can follow it over.

Brett

[Zacrifice]

Deffinatly post an update.
I don't think this thread is getting all that long.
Post it here

I have still be watching your tank with interest, you need to make your self a website

[picture the reef]

Brett, No where near to long. I have followed this thread with much interest because of my personal interest in the Eco-Wheel. Have you been following the Acan thread? 120 pages and counting.:D

[matt & pam]

Brett,
Agree with others. Keep it coming on this thread.

Matt

[Putawaywet]

Greetings everyone,

As promised, the 90 gal Low-Light setup is history and a new incarnation now lives and breathes in it’s place.

But, before I show it to you I should probably recap for those of you who are just tuning in, or may have been following this thread for so long you have completely lost track of where we last left off.

When I initially setup my twin tank system the smaller of the 2 tanks sort of just transitioned (I couldn’t decide what to do with it) into a low-light experiment for non-photosynthetic corals and other misc. filter feeding animals. Alas, while the tank appeared to start out with a grand and noble cause, it failed miserably in it’s attempts to achieve any resemblance of greatness, lacking even the faintest hint of what I had originally envisioned. Additionally, it quickly came to fruition just how labor intensive something like that really was. To be honest, I just didn’t have the time or energy to operate such a hands on setup. Especially, having to split my time between that tank and a 180 gal reef.

So, earlier this year I started re-thinking my plans and began shopping for something that would meet the following criteria:

1) It had to be aesthetically pleasing to look at.
2) Needed to be visually different than what I was doing in the larger tank
3) Needed to be relatively simple to maintain.
4) Had to have a bit of a “wow” factor involved to feed my large ego J

It’s been a long time in the works and taken many hours of fabrication… definitely a labor of love. However, on the same token, it’s taken my reefing skills down a road I never thought I would be capable of going. And you could almost say I enjoyed the trip…. But I did learn a thing or two which I guess is a good thing.

So after many months of flapping my jaws it’s time to put my money where my mouth is……..

[Putawaywet]

May I now present my new pier piling biotope. (Although, you’ll have to excuse the poetic license I was forced to take with regard to animal selection… they came with the tank)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-01.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-02.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-08.jpg

[Putawaywet]

As you’ll remember, the basic tank dimensions are 24”w x 30”d x 30”h with 2 corner influent/effluent boxes taking up a good portion of the rear of the tank. In effect leaving me with a 24x24 cube. This put space at a premium and forced me to make sure I had all dimensions triple checked before I started the ball rolling.

The company who fabricated the basic piling was David L. Manwarren Corp. www.dlmanwarren.com/ out here in Rancho Cucamonga, Ca. Normally, these folks specialize in Public Aquarium and Zoo exhibits but they said they have been picking up more home hobbyist work in the last year or so. Although, I should probably mention that their prices are not for the feint of heart. These folks are the “who’s who” of professional fabricators and their prices definitely reflect that. But, like they always say “you get what you pay for” and their work is absolutely out of this world amazing. Not to mention they are some nicest people I have ever dealt with.

I was able to keep costs under some resemblance of control by requesting a basic piling sans any decorations. That made things a little easier on the checkbook. DLM corp. was more than happy to accommodate.

Not counting the initial delay getting this project off the ground their turn around was approximately 8 weeks from time of deposit to completion. (They happily offered me a tour and some great conversation when I swung by to pick it up. I also got to meet Teri, the artist who fabricated my piling, an added bonus.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-003.jpg

[Putawaywet]

Once I got the basic piece home I went to work adding all the fine details. Some of you might remember a ways back in this thread the sewer pipe I detailed with barnacles and mussels? Well, I pretty much took what I learned there and transferred it to this project. During the time I was waiting for DLM to complete the insert I actually passed the time by making molds of some of the mussels I already had on hand. This was a pretty straightforward process of ordering the RTV rubber, preparing the masters and making the molds. Once I had a couple suitable molds I began making duplicates of the originals. Admittedly, at first, I thought this was going to be a pretty daunting process, but it really was a lot easier than I had originally thought. The clear casting resin is a 1-to-1 epoxy that sets in approximately 15 minutes. You color it with a small amount of pigment. Once I got my rhythm, so to speak, it only took a couple evenings at the dining room table to prep and mold some 3 dozen clusters of mussels. All in all, I think I spent about $200.00 in casting materials and I still have a good amount of material left over if I decide to do something in the future.

DLM corp. supplied the barnacles, which are relatively cheap in comparison to everything else (approx $7.00 for a sheet of several hundred) but they come in both clusters and singles and it’s quite the tedious chore to glue them all in place.

Installing everything was pretty easy, I merely boiled the castings in a pot of water on the stove for a few minutes to soften them and then hand formed them to the contours of the piling as they cooled. I attached them with JB Kwik (JB Weld) epoxy.

The rope came from a company that specializes in rope stanchions (those things that herd us humans like cattle at theme parks and concerts) and is actually made to look like hemp but is manufactured from nylon so it’s relatively inert.

Since I needed to scale this thing to fit such a small tank I had to take a little liberty with my sizing and I opted for the 1” diameter rope and made only 3 coils around the piling. Surprisingly, it took a full 10’ of rope to get those 3 loops. The ends were secured in back with more JB Kwik epoxy.

Once I had everything glued in place (a couple days of work) I started in on the painting. A trip to my local craft supply store supplied me with a variety of water based acrylic paints (enamels are not compatible with epoxy resins). I had already downloaded a bunch of photos of mussels and barnacles from the Internet so I had a pretty good idea of the coloring I was shooting for. Still, it took a little trial and error to get things so they looked just right. The black pigmented mussels received a dry brushing of Bright White to bring out the highlights, followed by some dabs of Kelly Green, generic tan and Driftwood to simulate grunge which I hoped would give them some individuality. The barnacles were base coated white, then washed with a brown alcohol stain from my model building supply kit to fill in all the nooks and crannies. This left them with a heavy brown coloring that was softened with a dry brushing of Metallic Pearl White followed by just a “kiss” of Bright White on all the high spots and edges. It took another 12 hours or so to complete all the painting but I think I got everything pretty dead on in regard to accuracy.

DLM was nice enough to supply me with some clear resin to be used as a topcoat and after all the paint had dried I gave the entire piece several coats to seal it and protect from future cleanings. Everything was then left to cure for 72 hours.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-004.jpg

[Putawaywet]

The old rusted wheel is actually an off-the-shelf piece that they offer from their online catalog, it’s technically a handle from a ship’s hatch but I think it looks cool nonetheless. (On a side note here these folks can make anything your imagination can dream up… from small bits of gears, pipes and other misc. junk, up thru sections of a ship’s wooden decking, oil drums…. all the way to a complete section of a sunken ship. They also offer ready-made rocks, corals, birds, monkeys, vines… just about anything you might need if you were doing a zoo or aquarium exhibit.)

Getting the piling into my tank proved to be a little more work than originally anticipated. Remember how I mentioned earlier about triple checking everything? Well, it seems I somehow forgot to take all the decorations into consideration when I was taking my initial measurements. …. There’s really nothing like a half an hour of fighting, cajoling, and otherwise generally swearing at things around you to work up a real good sweat.

So, out comes the drill and jigsaw and I start tearing into the top of my acrylic tank. Anyone have any idea just how big of a mess you can make of a tank that is half filled with water and still contains all of it’s fish when you start hacking into it with a power tools? Yeah, I know…. I was trying to make life easier on them and myself by hoping to just drop this thing in place around them. Didn’t happen. Nope! Not even in the slightest. So there I am sawing and swearing while my fish are being rained on by little white bits of plastic (“oh look, how cute… they think it’s food”). Needless to say, it was not a very enjoyable afternoon.

A short while later I had managed to enlarge the top opening, grind the edges into some resemblance of straightness, and sand everything smooth. Actually, much to my shock, it looks pretty darn good and with the exception of no flame polishing along the edge it’s pretty close to OEM. Yes I know I just voided my ******* warranty, but it’s ½” acrylic and it’s a 90 gal cube for crying out loud. I followed the contours of what was already there and just made things a bit bigger so I’m quite confident I’ll be able to sleep at night.

Once I got the piling lowered into place I took a quick head count to make sure none of my fish had darted inside the thing before I slid it into it’s final position.

I had long ago made the decision to remove my salt and pepper mix of Tahitian Moon sand so that had already been siphoned out and stored in a plastic trashcan earlier that morning. I replaced this with a mixture of #3 & #5 grade aragonite reef sand, filling in around the piling as I went. I left my egg crate in place that was originally installed under the rockwork and just set the piling atop that.

The plants are some new releases by Fancyplants (red sargassum something or other) and actually look surprisingly realistic. In all honesty, I think they add that finishing touch.

I knew going into this project that lighting the tank was going to be a bit of a challenge. My initial thoughts were that I wanted enough light to grow some basic corals (zoos, mushrooms, Xenia perhaps even some gorgs) but not so much light that I would be constantly fighting coralline on all the resin inserts.

I found my answer with IceCap’s new MH spot pendant that they released back in early summer. What a real nice piece of work. Compact, functional, and packaged in a pretty sweet looking mix of stainless and powder coated blue paint. I opted for the 70w 6500k bulb, which at first seemed way too yellow for my liking after all my years of reefing, but really is a pretty decent representation of mid-day shallow water sunlight. I don’t have access to a light meter but the old eyeball meter says I am getting surprisingly good penetration thru 30” of water. The initial spread of light turned out to be larger than anticipated, but I employed a trick I learned working a the Long Beach aquarium and placed a couple of 1x4’s on top of the tank to control the light spread. Down the road I’ll probably work out something more permanent, perhaps a piece of black acrylic appropriately shaped, but in the short term the wood gets the job done. It actually is a pretty realistic effect as the contrast between light and dark really builds on the illusion of sunlight sneaking past some crack or broken board to light up a small area under the pier. I actually get about an 8” cylinder of light running from the top to bottom of the tank like some kind of SciFi special effect.

Here's a shot the sort of shows the re-directed lighting

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-005.jpg

[Putawaywet]

If any of you are considering a future MH purchase don’t pass up the opportunity to take a look at this new offering. It’s quite unique. The bulb is actually a par 38 bulb (similar to those screw in outdoor flood lights that are shaped like a mushroom) but Iwasaki has managed to incorporate a DE HQI envelope inside the glass of the bulb. So, you get a 70w DE with it’s own focused internal reflector that screws into a standard ceramic socket. IceCap then couples this with an e-ballast that has the capability of adjusting for power drops and voltage variances and a custom designed pendant to hold the bulb. Better still, the pendant accepts all the bulbs currently offered (70w & 150w 6500k/20,00k in both spot and flood configurations) so you can mix and match to suit your needs. The only thing you need to make sure of is that you match the 70w bulbs to a 70w ballast, and the 150w bulbs to a 150w ballast.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Pendant-01.jpg

[Putawaywet]

I had originally purchased the pendant and ballast from Premium Aquatics but Andy at IcaCap was nice enough to send me one of their pre-production samples of their matching ballast enclosure before I wired everything up. The only requirement was that I write a product review for him in exchange for the favor. I’ll be piecing that together in the next week or so, but from my limited test drive I really like what they have done. I think it fills the gap quite nicely for those who might be looking for a MH lighting on a small to medium sized tank, or might be wanting to spotlight a particular area of their reef with a different temperature bulb than what they are running in their main light fixtures.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Ballast-01.jpg

[Putawaywet]

One of the other things I did was install some blue LEDS from www.autolumination.com/ (the glowing blue light barely visible 2 pics up) These are self-contained 3 bulb LEDs designed as interior dome lights on cars and trucks, but they work really well for reef applications. The company has apparently caught on to our interest and have added mention on their website of their being suitable for aquarium use, but thankfully, haven’t yet added the usual aquarium up charge that normally accompanies so many of our hobby goodies. I think I paid around $15.00 for a pair of lights and they come with pre-wired, appropriately sized resistors so all I needed to do was attach them to a 12v DC power supply and I was good to go. Well, ok, I actually took a half hour to mount them in a 1 1/2" black ABS coupler so I had sa little more flexibility with my mounting

I like these much better than my cold cathode tubes from www.pcmods.com because they cast some really nice glitter lines and really make things shimmer, but the tradeoff is they are considerably brighter and some may think them too bright for their liking. Also, with the wood sitting on top of my tank the LED has a hard time getting light to all areas of the tank. So in effect they are only hitting 75% of the tank, which looks kind of weird. I’ll have to keep experimenting to see if I can reach a happy medium between the spread of LED’s and the spread of the MH pendant.

[Putawaywet]

Other than this monster of a project I managed to get a 16 gal RO storage tank with spigot plumbed into the laundry room so I no longer have to baby-sit 5 gal jugs on my floor while they are filling. I also changed out all my fittings on my RO/DI system with John Guest fittings, replaced all my cartridges with new, and plumbed an add-on chamber for additional filtration (5 mic prefilter, into a 1 mic prefilter, into a .5 mic carbon block, into my Hi-S RO membrane that then empties into my DI resin cartridge.) Not because I was having any problems per se, but I was ordering replacements and figured I’d give it a try and see how it works. I’m still awaiting delivery of a digital TDS meter – Marine Depot backordered it.

I also added a matching 16 gal poly tank in the cabinet under the pier piling tank. Somewhere down the road I will probably be incorporating this into an auto top off system with a kalkreactor but for the short term it’s just sitting there looking really important while taking up a buttload of space :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-10.jpg

[Putawaywet]

I’m planning to give the reef tank a good cleaning and possibly start swapping out some of the sand over the next couple weeks so I should have some updated pics of that side the first week of December or so. I’m also working on a sweet canister filter/handheld power washer setup that is mounted under the reef tank on a slide-out shelf. Hopefully I’ll get that finished up this week and get some pics up. I’m still kicking around the idea of adding the slide out tray to hold things when I’m working on the tank but haven’t made a final decision. It seemed like a really cool idea at the time, but in all honesty I haven’t missed not having it in the last year. So I’m starting to think I would be adding it “just because”. Which, God knows wouldn’t be all that whacked of a reason considering some of the insane stuff I've already done on this system.

Before I sign off I'll leave one last pic.... it's one of the tank in the later evening with just the twin 13w PC's on.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770Piling-011.jpg

Until next time....

Brett

[H20ENG]

Awesome Brett!! Nice work man.

[Zacrifice]

BLOODY OATH!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats just billient!!!!!!
That amount of work you have gone too.

I absolutely love the last photo, the 2 13W PC's make it look like its late night and someone is shining a torch down into the water!!

Bloody fantastic!

the only thing I would say would be to rip it all out and paint the back of the tank black hahaha to make it look all dark.
I would stick with just the PC's personaly however photos never do a tank justice and I bet it looks top notch in person!!

You have gotten me thinking now.
I actually do a little sculpture and I have been wanting to do something more technically interesting for my tank you have just fired up the inspiration and I might try hiding the overflow and return of the tank!

What resin was used to mould the stump and pylons?
In the short time the rope has been in the water have you noticed anything negitive?
Was the stump taken from a live model or sculpted?
I will be coming to you with lots of questions shortly hahaha

[matt & pam]

Brett,
Nice work. I like how your tanks contrast in style.

From your perspective, is there any other ways to top-off either RO or kalk other than manual vs. peristaltic pump? I've been looking at other options besides a pump but don't see how they would work without a sump.

Thanks. Matt

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by Zacrifice
What resin was used to mould the stump and pylons?
In the short time the rope has been in the water have you noticed anything negitive?

Was the stump taken from a live model or sculpted?
I will be coming to you with lots of questions shortly hahaha

Actually I was expecting them to fabricate the thing over a PVC pipe base but when I picked it up and looked inside I could easily see that it was free-formed. It looks like some kind of heavy cloth like canvas or something that has been saturated with a thick flesh colored resin. Then as it started to set, it looks like it was rolled into a semi-tube shape. After that dried it looks like all 3 were attached to each other with yet more resin. Then a 1" or so outer coating of a unknown but very distinctly different material was applied to form the outer texture. This is where you see how good the artist really was. There is an overall wood texture, complete with splits, cracks, holes etc.

When I stopped by to pick it up I had sometime to look around and I checked out the work area. There are several boxes filled with rubber molds and coffee cans filled with picks, scrapers, awls wire brushes etc. So it looks like they get the outer material on, let it set up a bit and then start pressing rubber molds into the material to form the basic texture. Then they come back and put specific areas in like the cracks with modeling tools or dental instruments. There are even some areas that look like they were just swatted with a stiff wire brush. The final touch is the painting with is several shades of brown hit with highlights and then the a couple greens to simulate the algae.

The wheel has some serious texture but that appears easier to see how it was done. They obviously just painted on a wet epoxy to the bare casting and then sprinkled some rough type of material over the wheel. Like shavings form a grinding wheel or something similar. The thick algae actually looks like a think epoxy paste that was teased with a sharp tool right before it set.

So far the rope appears to be a non issue. Which probably won't change since it's nylon. I weathered it with paint but that was overcoated with clear resin.


Originally posted by matt & pam
From your perspective, is there any other ways to top-off either RO or kalk other than manual vs. peristaltic pump? I've been looking at other options besides a pump but don't see how they would work without a sump.

At first I thought there might actually be a venturi type of vacuum somewhere near the air injection port that I could use to my advantage but that proved to be untrue. So the only other way to get water into the system is with some kind of positive displacement setup or via gravity from above.

However, getting water out of the tank is a snap since you can tap a Jaco fitting right into the pipes coming out the bottom of the filter. I actually did that when I was putting everything together. So I might just have the kalkreactor feed directly from that.

Otherwise, I'm still kicking around a several ideas. The quickest and cheapest is to just put a pump on the new reservoir and hook it to a switch and then whenever I walk by just turn it on for a few seconds to add a gallon or so.

But I really think the route I will eventually go is to use something like a Litremeter combined with a Kalkreactor and just keep adjusting the output to match evap. Right now that seems really attractive compared to refilling my kalk jug 3-4 times a week.

But in all honesty, the water level really doesn't rise all the much inside my tanks and I'm starting to think that a float switch might actually work. But I hate unsightly stuff in my tanks so that's not real appealing at the moment. The enfluent/influent boxes do have enough of a rise and fall that I doubt a float switch will work on them though

I probably need to give Morgan over at Inland Aquatics a call back because I think I remember him mentioning one doser in particular when we taked before. Something about he had tried several and that one was the one that worked best. When I find out more I'll post it here.

[Flatlander]

Brett;
Thats one remarkable looking tank. Its a breath of fresh air to something other than the run of the mill reef aquarium. {although I like them also}. :D

I cant remember and have not gone back to look, but is that tank connected with the larger one and same filtration or separate?

I see you have pyjama,s in both tanks. Any pairings yet? I have 5 in mine. They are getting pretty large now. No pairing yet or much aggression towards each other.

It will be nice to watch that tank as it matures. I think the xenia would be stunning there, as long as the growth it kept somewhat in check. :D

[Putawaywet]

Doug, both tanks are connected and built into the same oak enclosure. The reef is on the left and the pier piling on the right. As soon as I can get the reef cleaned up I'll try to get one big pic. Now that I have the MH light on the small tank I should have better luck. The problem with having those 2 13w PC's on the tank before was the reef lighting overwhelmed my digital camera and the Low-light tank kept turning out totally dark.

Those PJ cardinals are in the Pier tank only - 3 of them. No pairings yet that I can tell but 2 seem to tolerate each other well while the 3rd one is definitely the odd man out. Besides that I've got 2 split tail gobies, 2 bar gobies, a Lyretail hogfish, a dragon goby and a Royal Gramma that carried over from my old tank. He's about 5 maybe 6 years old now.

I've already moved a Xenia frag in and it's pumping away.

I'm thinking I'll pick up maybe 8 or 10 Hawiian featherduster and then try to frag some gorgs and mount them on either the wheel or the broken section of the piling. I also found a couple good sized clams and what actually looks like a mussel burried under some of the rock I removed so those went in there along with some green star polys and a couple mushrooms. I also reused the best of my rock which was covered in numerous sponges and several rock boring clams.

The mandatory beer bottle will be going in tomorrow.

I'm actually kicking around the idea of doing an old shoe... like a super thrashed Nike or Converse or something - but I'm literally out of room.

Brett

[Zacrifice]

I think a tire is the order of the day

I would be so tempted to go all out and make it look like a true peir modeled hand fishing reels would work perhaps bottle tops shopping trolly hahaha

I should prolly stay away from modeling my tank from a peir hahaha.

I have been thinking about modeling my 4foot tank off of a partially sunken ship that has been there for a few years and completly covered in barnicals, corals and the sort.

I would be able to just buy a terracotta ship section and then paint it with acrylics to make it look rusted and falling to bits (Covered in epoxy of course)
Barnicals will give me the technical part I want in modeling hahaha

But hiding the over flow wont be possible tho... hmmmm perhaps back to the drawing board!

[Gerard Alba]

Putawaywet your tank looks great.

[skylsdale]

Tank looks fabulous--good thinking! Reminds me of diving around here in Puget Sound. It would be nice if you could find some Sargassum replicas and swap out those silk plants with them--get a bit more freeform algae look in there. Too bad you've already got a decent amount of fish in there. I was going to recommend that you go with a Caribbean theme as far as stocking in there, which would be cool.

It looks GREAT! Keep us updated.

[Putawaywet]

I managed to do a little cleaning over the past couple days. Here's a shot of the complete system - enjoy it while it lasts because I doubt it's going to stay this clean for long. :D

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770DSCF0063.JPG

Brett

[gumbybc]

your system looks really nice. i really like the pier tank on the left. you will have to keep us updated as to how everything holds up. Awesome job!

[gstark]

Brett
Fantastic setup you have there!! Soo much more interesting
than a pile of rocks. You've inspired me to think theme on my own setup. Now if I could win the lottery to help with the finance lol.
So tempted to go with a" mangrove swamp" theme rather than reef but so far have not figured out a way to separate the systems . I only have 12x21 feet max. Common sense tells me i should stick with Fw themes but love those marine setups.
Checked out the site that did your pilings Do incredible work don't they?? i believe they are involved in the new "rainforest" setup at the local zoo.
Again thanks for the pix!!
Gary

[Flatlander]

Beautiful Brett.

[NicoleC]

Brett,

Fantastic job!

Question for you -- I want to fabricate a back wall for my new tank. Nooks, crannies, crevices, a few ledges and overhangs, etc. The foam + epoxy paint method does not seem very stable or long term to me. What kind of casting resin did you use for the mussels? And do you think it would be stable in large, thin sheets (1/2" - 1" mostly)?

[derrikd]

this is awsome

[vapovick]

excellent work, and attention to detail on your cabinet and sump, wiring, tank, and all !


./super sweet !

[Putawaywet]

My thanks to everyone for all the positive compliments - It's nice to know that my peers are so accepting of my OCD style of reefing :)

NicoleC,

I ordered the casting resin from MicroMark. It's a 1-1 mix and has very little smell so you can actually use it indoors if you needed to. Takes about 15 minutes to set and 24 hours to cure. One cured it can be carved, sanded, painted etc.

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Department&ID=64&Offset=10

I'm not sure what your plan is for the actual fabrication, but the resin is relative durable out to about 1/4". But, not sure how it would hold up with a large surface area at the size. Prob better to use some kind of backing and then add the resin to that for support.

FWIW, prior to deciding on the piling I kicked around the idea of covering the interior walls of my tank with simulated rockwork.

The general plan was going to be to obtain some sheets of insulation foam from my local Home Depot (although the spray can stuff will prob work once it's dry) and glue it to some sheets of acrylic cut to fit inside the tank. Then, I was just going to carve and grind on the foam until I had all the contours and shapes that I wanted. After that I figurerd a few good coats of fiberglass would give it a nice durable outer shell.

You could prob even press sm. peices of rock into the resin before it set since a few months down the road it will look like all the rest in your tank.

Once everything was finshed I was going to just silicone the panels to the inside of my tank.

Also, there are some other types of epoxies out there (Zoopoxy?? or something like that) that do a really good job of simulating rock texture. I had a custom vivarium built last year and the guy used something similar to this over fiberglass cloth that was shaped into rockwork. With a little paint it pretty much looks like gray granite. The viv on the "latest projects" section of his website is what I ordered if you care to see what effects can be done using epoxy.

http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/customecos/

I asked about sending my foam to him after I had it shaped so he could coat and texture the hardshell and he said he could easily do that for a few hundred bucks. Had I continued with that project more than likely that would have been the approach I would have taken.

Lastly, a lot of the terrarium folks have been experimenting with building fake rockwork inside glass tanks and are using various techniques and materials. The most popular seems to be carving foam and then coating that with either grout or concrete. Although, I imagine substituting epoxy/fiberglass and then sprinkling on sand or crushed coral would look relatively decent.

HTH's

Brett

[NicoleC]

Brett, many thanks for the info. The main problem with foam is that it floats, so I'm tossing around alternative ideas.

[rehren]

great idea, nice cat.

[gstark]

Hi
You can keep the foam from floating by either attaching it to the glass or an object(inert of course) that will overcome the bouyancy. You can coat it with acrylic paint and press rocks shells or whatever into as it cures..Personally i don't think marine epoxy paint is necessary but it would protect it from boring animals.
Brett, Thanks for those sites.You know where all the cool places are lol
Gary

[chask]

I am in the process of setting up my first marine tank. I have been doing freshwater fish and later planted for 30+ years. We are remodeling a new home and I have room for a large tank and my wife finally convinced me to go to salt. I just recently joined Reef Central to learn a little more about it and started reading this thread because I am interested in the Eco-Wheel.

If someone had told me that they were going to set up a tank using a couple of fake piers tied together with a large rope I would have said "sounds nice" but thought they were nuts. However, every now and then you run across someone who has the talent to take an unusual idea and make it work. Even more infrequently you find someone who can do that and has the artistic ability to make it look great as well.

Brett, you are way beyond that. This is really incredible. I have been to many public quariums and rarely have I seen exhibits that even come close to the quality of your home tank. It's just awesome. Wish I had 1/10th your talent and artistic ability. Just incredible.

Regarding the Eco-Wheel:
I am having trouble reaching anyone with the company. From what i have seen here and in my searches on the web the largest model they make is for a 300 gallon tank. How do you go about buying one for a much bigger tank?

I have several questions about your experiences with this filter. Some of them may be kind of basic stuff for you experienced hands (remember I am a salt novice) but I am concerned about your comments regarding shifting this thread to another one when you slightly shifted the focus to your 90 gallon setup. I'm new here and not familiar with what's acceptable. So I don't want start my first post upsetting anyone, not to mention cluttering this great thread with what some might consider a bunch of newbie stuff. Post, e-mail or PM?

Thanks again for the thread. And the pictures of your tank are incredible!

Charles

[Putawaywet]

Geez Charles.... I need to keep you around for a while... you're doing wonders for my ego :D

But my swelled head aside, I really started this thread to try and spotlight the EcoWheel system because so many people had never seen one in action. Also, when I first considered setting one up I had great difficulties in finding any unbiased info or anyone that could answer my questions about real time or long time use. So I figured, what the heck, perhaps someone will benefit from my experience.

It was never my intentions to try and "inspire" or "dazzle" anyone with my abilities. (ok, perhaps just a little with the pier piling tank) I guess if that was a side effect then that's cool too. In all honesty, this project just kind of took on a life of it's own and just sort of "evolved" over the past year. In my wildest dreams I don't think I could have ever imagined how far I've come in just 16 short months.

I think one of the reason's why I have enjoyed doing a thread like this is because I cut my teeth in this hobby back in the day when the only available info was from outdated books and you spent a lot of frustration and money figuring things out for yourself. So much of both in fact that I almost don't want to think about it. So, if this thread actually helps anyone out and saves them a little of both then it's definitely worth all the time and effort :)

And yes, you're not the first person to report difficulties reaching A.E. ....and while I've tried defending Chris by explaining that he's pretty close to a one man show and that he spends a lot of time out on the road, I seriously believe that he needs to get his act together if he ever intends to market this system in a more mainstream forum. It really boils down to simple business practices.... no matter how good your product may be, you'll go nowhere fast if you have no customer support behind it.

Actually, the issues with A.E. do seem rather bass ackwards to me. Normally, a company is crawling all over you when they think you are willing to buy, but then can't be bothered with you once your money is in the bank. A.E. seems to be just the opposite - always eager to respond to any questions or concerns that I had while setting everything up, even checking in with me periodically to see how things are progressing. But return an email from a perspective cusomer? Well, that's something he definitely needs to work on.

With that said, AFAIK the upper limit on home setups is 300gals. Although, they can engineer a custom setup to any size tank if you want to go big. However, I suspect you would need to go really big (like 4 digit gallonage as a minimum) before they would consider that alternative. In lieu of that, my guess is they would just reccomend a second filter for something like a 500 or 600 gal tank which would just drive the cost right thru the roof. The price for one filter is ok when compared to the cost savings on what you aren't buying for a more conventional setup. But 2 EcoWheels? That's a tough cookie to choke down. Then again, what would the cash outlay be for setting up top end 600 gal SPS tank? If you figure $600-800 for a skimmer, multiple big pumps for closed loops, a large custom sump, refugium, chiller, etc., and the electricity to run all of that stuff perhaps it might still be cost effective.

I imagine if you were thinking of a tank of that size you could always go with one filter and then add a sump and a skimmer and a few Tunze Streams, but that does seem to defeat the whole idea of the EcoWheel. Personally, if it were me and I was going to do a "big" tank I think I would start kicking around some designs of my own that incorporated an airlift and some kind of ATS filter before I would drop the coin for 2 EcoWheels. Then again, who knows what I'll really do if I get another wild hair up my rear. I never though I'd actually own one of these things so I'm learning to never say never.

Beyond that, feel free to ask all the questions right here on this thread and I will try and answer them to the best of my ability.

Regards,

Brett

[chask]

Regarding the comments - I aim to please.:) But seriously, they were sincere. You do incredible work both in and out of the tanks. Just face it, the inside of your cabinet looks as good or better than the outside of most.

I really think you have succeeded with your objectives on this thread. At least you have most certainly have with me, and it appears from other comments with everyone else too.

I am pretty sold on the Eco-Wheel but like you said, their business practices leave a lot to be desired. I used to run a small manufacturing business (wish all the guys I had working for me were as meticulous as you) and understand how hard it can be when you are pretty much the main parrt of the show. What Chris (is that his name?) is doing is making me think about trying it for myself or trying another product. Actually he is kind of forcing me in that direction.

I recently purchased a house and am in the process of remodeling it. There is a place for a tank and my wife convinced me to go salt instead of the freshwater planted I have done for many, many moons. After reading the Ultimate Aquarium and noting how almost to the person the owners said they wished their tanks were bigger (even the guy at the aquarium who could scuba dive in his), my vision grew. Fortunately there is room for fairly big tank and a room next to it for the rest of the stuff. I can even go downstairs to a basement or through an exterior wall if I have to go to a modified Berlin system (really, really do not want to do this). My problem is the contractor needs to have a layout for the room next to the tank. This is hard to do without the some help from the people who make the filter. It is starting to hold up construction. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

The plan has grown from around 350-400 gallons up to around 1000-1100 gallons on the low end. I have the room to go to around 1800-1900 if I get the height up to 4.5 feet and increase the length. I am concerned about working on something over 3-3.5 feet tall and 4-4.5 feet deep (front to back - hope I am using deep and tall correctly). I have room to go perhaps 5 feet deep and 6 feet tall if I recess the lights and around 15 feet long (yes it is a good size room). I know that once it's built in I will not redo it to make it any bigger; sort of now or never. My current thought is 12' (long) x 4.5' (front to back) x 3-3.5' (tall) set up as a lagoon to reef's edge environment with a small patch reef or two out in the middle. (I just started reading about salt a couple of weeks ago - I hope I have the terms right) I have done plants and it seems that the front to back and height dimensions would allow a lot of flexibility in design - a couple of swim through caves (small and one good sized), an arch or two, a couple of mounds out in the middle growing up to or near the surface. My hope is to have plently of room for corals to really grow out, plenty of room for a couple of schools of small fish to school in and around the various rock/coral structures, and the scale of small fish against the rock structures giving the illusion of a much larger patch of lagoon. It will be set up with one side and end open to the main room and the other long side open to the equipment room. Hopefully I'll end up with a lot of good viewing angles in both rooms. Looking forward to long periods of stress reduction viewing. :D

This brings up one of my concerns that I was going to post about in another area but I am not sure where. Is it tough to work on something that tall and deep or do people mostly do this for fish only tanks? Will I have to get in it for the corals? I'm leaning heavily in the DSB direction because of my planted freshwater experience but because of all the re-planting and trimming that is required for FW plants I would never think about anything over 30 inches or so tall and about the same to maybe 3 feet deep. I see a lot of salt tanks that are really tall. How do they work on them? Please do not go into it here (way off topic) but if anyone has an idea where this should go or wants to PM me I would appreciate the input.

Regarding my questions about your tank and the Eco-Wheel, just remember you asked for it. Okay, here goes.

DSBs and Feeding:
I recall seeing a few postings where you briefly mentioned DSB's with what I took to be a not too favorable point of view. My first thought would be that any additional natural filtration and processing of waste (completing the cycle sort of thing) would be beneficial. Particularly if it meant the creation of a large bed of natural food. I also recall that you are adding food to the tank. Do you think that a DSB and/or refugium might be capable of producing anough natural food that the tank would not require auxilliary feeding? Like you I get busy and sometimes do not have the time or want to go somewhere for a vacation. I know in freshwater you can leave one alone for a week or so (heavily fed just before of course) without any harm. I am sure that salt water fish are similarly capable of feast/famine (long as it is only occasionally) but I have not seen anything comparable about corals and some of the other critters. The tank needs to be able to run itself for a while. I either need it to self feed or have an auto feeder. It sounds like the Eco-Wheel is doing a lot of this, I just wonder how much and is it enough? Other postings I have seen indicate a refugium would need to be at least 25-30% of the size of the display tank to be capable of providing enough natural food for corals and fish. Any idea how much the Eco-Wheel is adding and how much more one would need to be self-sufficient?

You also hinted at a change in the salt and pepper sand bed. Have you seen Ron Shimek's articles (Ask Dr. Ron) on DSB's and sand size? Inland Aquatics also seems to advocate something similar (a mix of various grain sizes) but I guess they are doing the DSB thing too.


Water Changes and Color:
Are you doing the water changes to get the typical ATS filter color out, for export of bad stuff, or a little of both? I know carbon is not a good idea re: removing essential nutrients but in their first reef book Delbeek and Splung mentioned that a bag of GAC under a rock next to an air stone would keep the color clear without much nutrient removal. Do you find the need for something extra with the Eco-Wheel?


Mechanical and Other Filtration:
Are you doing any additional mechanical filtration at all? Also, you nmoted a buld up of detritus in the Eco-Wheel. I would normally think that leaving the detritus in the filter long term is not the best idea. If there isn't some critter or bacteria working on it isn't that stuff just adding undesirable checmicals back into the tank?


Water Circulation:
Do you find the flow rate (1200 gph) enough? I noted that you have modified the air lift but there was no mention of the increase in flow, just that it did. I sort of feel like it would be nice to have an occasional "storm" to stir things up, clean junk off stuff it shouldn't be on and move it to the filter. Not thinking about a hurricane simulation, just a little extra turbulence. Seens like it would help a lot. I also wonder about getting sufficient circulation in a tank as big as I am planning. I guess that mulitple air lifts with multiple inflows and overflows around the tank would help or alleviate this. Kind of hard to know for sure without help from AE. Whatever I do it will be with some sort of "pump" that is not harmful to all that stuff I want growing in there. Do you have any plans for extra water circulation or surge devices?


Probes and Controllers:
I kind of like the idea of not controlling everything but as I mentioned beore I get busy. And it seems to me that the goal of products like the Eco-Wheel is moving towards a self-sustaining system. Bourneman's boook about corals mentions on the inside back cover he has a 500 gallon closed system without water changes. There are some thing that need to be done daily and occasionally they won't. I am primarily thinking of Kalkwasser for top up, any nutrient dosing, auto feeding, and perhaps auto water changes. There is also temperature and lighting control. If I get something to handle all of that, a couple more probes and I could have the "brains" watch for problems and bring them to my attention. Perhaps I could start looking for something bad before it gets too far out of hand. Being a newbie to salt I am sure I have a learning curve ahead of me and could use all the help I can get. Also remeber that I am used to keeping plants that cost 25-50 cents each that I can grow to double size within a few weeks. I've checked prices on some of therse corals. Wow! I could have filled a tank this size with plants for what a couple of those little finger sized frags cost. But they do look good!!!


Maintenance:
You mentioned in your tear down that there was a scratch or two on the bearings of the wheel. Can you service them? Is there anything besides algae removal, changing burnt out bulbs and keeping critters out of the flow path required to keep this filter working correctly?

Regarding the hand held power washer/vacuum, I have often thought of one ot these too. The pull out shelf idea is a good one. I will remember that.


Well thanks for looking at this. And thank you very much for your postings on this topic. It has been a great help.

BTW - do you do any setup work on the outside? PM me if you would think about it.

I wish AE was a little more on the ball. Maybe he needs a partner to handle this end of it.

Thanks again!

Charles

[H20ENG]

Brett, If I may chime in...

Hi Charles,
Nice to see you are doing your homework first. I wonder, too about the ecowheel having enough flow for a tank as large as you propose.
I talked to Chris when he first started up the comapny, and he was prototyping algae wheels built with huge cable spools for waste treatment ponds. You may need something like this, or at minimum, several wheels along the length of the tank.
You could DIY the wheels fairly easily, IMO.
Wih minimal flow, I'd go bare bottom. This will keep the tank cleaner in the long run.
Have you figured out evaporation rates and how to deal with them? Also lighting that much tank will take some serious power, add heat, etc.
Also, I personally would hate to service a tank that size. I have built many a special tool for public aquarists to service large displays, and its never easy. (Beautiful, yes, but a pain to maintain)
Just throwing some more food for thought out there for you.
Sounds like a great project.
Chris

[caevan]

I bought my Ecowheel in 2001, I would have to be the only person in Australia running one.
At the beginning of this year I had a few problems with the air lift ( mainly the linear air pump). After a few non replies to emails sent to Aquatic Engineers, I finally tried ringing eventually I got in touch with Chris Limcaco, who told me he sold the Aquarium side of the business (AE) to another company, he now only deals in waste treatment, the web site is http://www.algaewheel.com/. I have to say he is till very helpful, even though it is no longer his business.

With regards to the yellowing of the water mentioned above, I would have to say while there might be some discolouration in the water, this is no more (in fact less) than I have seen in conventional setups. Discolouration in tank water will happen in any aged tank.

One of the main points you need to remember with scrubbers is, the algae should be harvested regularly and often.

[chask]

Caevan wrote

Sorry about formatting - still trying to figure this out:
>I got in touch with Chris Limcaco, who told me he sold the
>Aquarium side of the business (AE) to another company, he now
>only deals in waste treatment, the web site is
>http://www.algaewheel.com/. I have to say he is till very
>helpful, even though it is no longer his business.

Thanks a bunch. I'll try to reach them tomorrow.



Chris wrote

>Nice to see you are doing your homework first. I wonder, too
>about the ecowheel having enough flow for a tank as large as
>you propose.

It's only a matter of scale. :)


>I talked to Chris when he first started up the comapny, and he
>was prototyping algae wheels built with huge cable spools for
>waste treatment ponds. You may need something like this, or at
>minimum, several wheels along the length of the tank.

>You could DIY the wheels fairly easily, IMO.

>Wih minimal flow, I'd go bare bottom. This will keep the tank cleaner in the long run.

Like to look of sand.

>Have you figured out evaporation rates and how to deal with them?

I plan on setting up a Kalkwasser reactor with RO to handle the evaporation. I hope to automate this. Probably find some place in the filter system, set up a separate sump with another air lift pump, or put it in a refugium running off the same filter. I understand that there is a surge that creates a change in the water level in the tank. I would try to set it up to work off a minimum level.


>Also lighting that much tank will take some serious power, add heat, etc.

Yeah, I know. I have looked into some natural lighting to supplement artificial light. I also planned to use halides with a good ventilation system above to pull the heat away. Then there is always a chiller.


>Also, I personally would hate to service a tank that size. I have
>built many a special tool for public aquarists to service large
>displays, and its never easy. (Beautiful, yes, but a pain to
>maintain)

Where do I go here to post about maintenance of tanks this size? I kind of figured from Shimek's articles, other authers, and my experience with FW planted that one tends to just leave a DSB alone. I hoped an occasional small "storm" surge (created by extra air lift or other non-destructive pumps) would clean up the stuff on top by getting up into the water column and then to the filter for processing. If that works, the only uncertainty is what I need to do regarding corals.


>Just throwing some more food for thought out there for you.
>Sounds like a great project.

I hope so. If only it comes out half as nice as Brett's.


Thanks guys.
Charles

[H20ENG]

Charles,
I forgot to write it, but what I meant by evaporation rates, was that the humidity in your house will rise dramatically, and as such, you will need good ventilation or dehumidification equipment.
You should take all of this over to the Large Reef Tank forum here on RC. (Even though your interest in with the ecowheels.)
I've worked on a lot of LARGE systems. Let me know if I can help.
Chris

[Putawaywet]

Charles,

I'll see if I can pick out your questions and tackle them in order......

Originally posted by chask
My problem is the contractor needs to have a layout for the room next to the tank. This is hard to do without the some help from the people who make the filter. It is starting to hold up construction.

My suggestion would be to just have him build a generic room directly behind the wall where you plan to locate the tank. Have him include a raised concrete pad of perhaps 3-4” or so to accomodate the tank. Put a floor drain in the center, a stainless sink and small counter top in one corner and coat the floor and about 3’ up the walls with an epoxy/sand industrial floor coating so you can just hose everything down. Make sure you get lot’s of electrical outlets (with water resistant covers) and save some space for your saltwater reservoir, RO reservoir, a small refrigerator to hold fish food and beer and a couch for when your wife inadvertantly gets a look at the checkbook ;)

Oh... and don’t forget some kind of airflow to remove the humidity and cool the tank.

The plan has grown from around 350-400 gallons up to around 1000-1100 gallons on the low end. I have the room to go to around 1800-1900 if I get the height up to 4.5 feet and increase the length. I am concerned about working on something over 3-3.5 feet tall and 4-4.5 feet deep (front to back - hope I am using deep and tall correctly). I have room to go perhaps 5 feet deep and 6 feet tall if I recess the lights and around 15 feet long (yes it is a good size room). I know that once it's built in I will not redo it to make it any bigger; sort of now or never.

I’d strongly suggest keeping it under 1,000 gals so it’s still reasonably manageable. Chris (H20ENG) and myself have a good deal of experiece working on big (really big) tanks and yes, they are fun to look at, but they can be pretty overwhelming to keep running 24/7. Once the novelty wears off you still need to keep the thing going... that includes when you are out of town, stuck on a project at work, down with the flu, or just plain burned out and need a break. There will be unforseen problems/emergencies, sleepless nights, not to mention a butt load of money. 750-800 gals would be the maximum size I would consider doing if I ever went bigger.

How about 2 tanks built into the wall? Say... 500 gals each. a couple 6 footers side by side would look sweet. You’d also get more flexibility with what you could keep. Reef in one side, a predator tank for the other.

My current thought is 12' (long) x 4.5' (front to back) x 3-3.5' (tall) set up as a lagoon to reef's edge environment with a small patch reef or two out in the middle. (I just started reading about salt a couple of weeks ago - I hope I have the terms right) I have done plants and it seems that the front to back and height dimensions would allow a lot of flexibility in design - a couple of swim through caves (small and one good sized), an arch or two, a couple of mounds out in the middle growing up to or near the surface. My hope is to have plently of room for corals to really grow out, plenty of room for a couple of schools of small fish to school in and around the various rock/coral structures, and the scale of small fish against the rock structures giving the illusion of a much larger patch of lagoon. It will be set up with one side and end open to the main room and the other long side open to the equipment room. Hopefully I'll end up with a lot of good viewing angles in both rooms. Looking forward to long periods of stress reduction viewing.

Have you seen Steve Weast’s tank? www.oregonreef.com

I think he did a great job in picking a nicely shaped and balanced tank and aquascaping accordingly. I’m not a big fan of the stacked rock wall .....you see it day after day and after 17 years I’m pretty well done with that and ready to move on. I really like the Japanese tanks - especially the way they keep the rock height low and make the reef a forced perspective focal point of the bigger picture rather than an “in your face, overwhelming, use every last bit of space” kind of way.

If you do go with a long tank... like 12’... may I suggest multiple viewing windows along the wall. You could still do different aquascapings like you mentioned, but put a framed window around each area to “showcase” it. Then, when you looked in you’d get the illusion of the tank continuing off into the distance. You’d also get the added effect of the fish passing by each window as they traveled the full length of the tank. At least that’s the way I’d do it if I had a really long tank.

This brings up one of my concerns that I was going to post about in another area but I am not sure where. Is it tough to work on something that tall and deep or do people mostly do this for fish only tanks? Will I have to get in it for the corals? I'm leaning heavily in the DSB direction because of my planted freshwater experience but because of all the re-planting and trimming that is required for FW plants I would never think about anything over 30 inches or so tall and about the same to maybe 3 feet deep. I see a lot of salt tanks that are really tall. How do they work on them? Please do not go into it here (way off topic) but if anyone has an idea where this should go or wants to PM me I would appreciate the input.

You can’t reach the bottom in anything over 24” so a 30”H tank will require tongs or similar for general maintenance and what not. But I think 30” is the minimum for a nice open viewing area. 36” is probably better. You’ll be lookng at 400w MH’s for that kind of height but if you are going to go long I think you’re going to need to offset that with some decent height or it’s going to look severely out of proportion. Also, depth wise, the bigger the better.... way more flexibility. So 36” at the minimum with 48” being better still. That’s one of the reasons I like Steve’s tank so much - his depth allows him to do a lot of creative rockwork and you really can get the 3D effect working for you. Otherwise, it’s back to the sloping rock wall and that 2D look.

I recall seeing a few postings where you briefly mentioned DSB's with what I took to be a not too favorable point of view. My first thought would be that any additional natural filtration and processing of waste (completing the cycle sort of thing) would be beneficial. Particularly if it meant the creation of a large bed of natural food.

With reagrd to DSB’s I don’t think they would be much of a benefit to me at this stage of the game. I was already playing around with algae filtration when they started to become popular.

I do have several reservations about them but I have not set one up, nor do I plan to anytime in the future, so what I think really doesn’t matter. But, I will say that for some folks, especially those just starting out, they might be a viable option.

I also recall that you are adding food to the tank. Do you think that a DSB and/or refugium might be capable of producing anough natural food that the tank would not require auxilliary feeding?

To some extent yes, but you’ll prbably get more help from your live rock. Also, the larger the tank the more self-sustaining it becomes. I would guess a 750+ gallon tank could produce enough food to keep fish reasonably well fed with only minimal feedings from you. But this will be dependant upon how big of a fish load you have.

Like you I get busy and sometimes do not have the time or want to go somewhere for a vacation.

Exactly the reason I am suggesting you scale back just a bit on your tank size. A reef tank is definitely way more work than freshwater planted and as you increase your size so will you increase your workload.

I know in freshwater you can leave one alone for a week or so (heavily fed just before of course) without any harm. I am sure that salt water fish are similarly capable of feast/famine (long as it is only occasionally) but I have not seen anything comparable about corals and some of the other critters.

Yes, to some degree they are capable of being left to their own for short periods of time. My feeding regime for my fish is usally a couple 2-3 days on, with a break followed by another 2 or 3. Averages out to about 5 feedings and 2 fasting days a week. But it’s not the fish that you have to worry about, it’s more than likely going to be your life support that will cause the probs. That’s why you’ll want to keep everything as simple and low-tech as possible with as many backups and safeguards as you can engineer.

The tank needs to be able to run itself for a while. I either need it to self feed or have an auto feeder. It sounds like the Eco-Wheel is doing a lot of this, I just wonder how much and is it enough? Other postings I have seen indicate a refugium would need to be at least 25-30% of the size of the display tank to be capable of providing enough natural food for corals and fish. Any idea how much the Eco-Wheel is adding and how much more one would need to be self-sufficient?

Well, other than the occasional small tuft of algae the breaks free (quickly eaten by my herbivores) I’m not actually seeing anything coming out of the filter. However, the lower portions of the filter as well as my 5 influent/effluent boxes are teaming with life.... mysis, copepods, worms etc., so I imagine to some extent some of that has to be finding it’s way into the main displays.

You also hinted at a change in the salt and pepper sand bed. Have you seen Ron Shimek's articles (Ask Dr. Ron) on DSB's and sand size? Inland Aquatics also seems to advocate something similar (a mix of various grain sizes) but I guess they are doing the DSB thing too.

I’ve read some of them. When it comes to what Dr. Ron has to say.... well, I’ll just say that I think he’s a great invertebrate biologist and has helped a lot of people on this board. Other than that, I don’t frequent his forum very often. It’s the people who have his picture up on their walls and can quote him from memory that worry me :)

Water Changes and Color:
Are you doing the water changes to get the typical ATS filter color out, for export of bad stuff, or a little of both?

My water changes are strictly for waste export and trace element replacement. I use NSW which runs about .50/gal out here. That’s cheap insurance IMO, and the cost of a 25 gal weekly or bi-weekly water change is chump change compared to what I have invested or at stake. I look at it this way - I can spend the money and time on mixing salt and purchasing additives or just zip down the street and fill up some jugs and be done with it.

With regard to dissolved organics and/or any yellowing compounds I think that is something that is way over exaggerated. I hear a lot of people slamming ATS/non skimmed tanks as looking dingy and having yellow water, but I wonder just how many they have actually seen. Not that I’ve had all that many people come see my tank in person, but those that have haven’t complained in the slightest about the color of my water. Probably because it pretty much looks... well, just like regular water.

I know carbon is not a good idea re: removing essential nutrients but in their first reef book Delbeek and Splung mentioned that a bag of GAC under a rock next to an air stone would keep the color clear without much nutrient removal. Do you find the need for something extra with the Eco-Wheel?

I think carbon is a good thing, and do run it on occasion. Have I noticed a diff with or without it? No, not really. So why am I running carbon? Ahhh, you got me on that one??? Guess cuz most everyone else is and old habits are hard to break.

Are you doing any additional mechanical filtration at all?

No. But about once a month I blast everything with a powerhead (including sand) and let a hang on tank cannister with a pleated cartridge run overnight to remove all the crud. That seems to be working well.

Also, you noted a buld up of detritus in the Eco-Wheel. I would normally think that leaving the detritus in the filter long term is not the best idea. If there isn't some critter or bacteria working on it isn't that stuff just adding undesirable checmicals back into the tank?

Perhaps, but it’s loaded with life and doesn’t seem to accumulate much past about 1/8” so I’ve just learned to live with it.

Do you find the flow rate (1200 gph) enough?

Yes, much to my amazement. My past experience keeps telling me that I need more, but my eyes are telling me everything is fine. Tis a tortured soul I am, I know. I think the pulsing and surging has a lot to do with it. Right now I have about a dozen good sized SPS colonies and another half dozen frags or small colonies and all are doing quite nicely. I’m sure I could probably do better if I really blasted them with more flow, but for what purpose? I’ve already had to either frag or relocate some corals outright. I don’t really have a need to supercharge my growth because I’m pretty much out of room as it is.

I noted that you have modified the air lift but there was no mention of the increase in flow, just that it did.

Well, at the time I didn’t have a 3rd hand to hold buckets under 3 diffferent influent boxes so I could measure GPH. I had to guesstimate and figured a 10-15% improvement over A.E.’s design.

I sort of feel like it would be nice to have an occasional "storm" to stir things up, clean junk off stuff it shouldn't be on and move it to the filter. Not thinking about a hurricane simulation, just a little extra turbulence. Seens like it would help a lot. I also wonder about getting sufficient circulation in a tank as big as I am planning. I guess that mulitple air lifts with multiple inflows and overflows around the tank would help or alleviate this. Kind of hard to know for sure without help from AE.

I think that’s a good line of thought. Don’t worry about A.E. you can work around them. I know that seems like a difficult concept at this stage of the game, but now that I have run one I really don’t have any need to deal with them beyond an occasional chit-chat with Chris.

Whatever I do it will be with some sort of "pump" that is not harmful to all that stuff I want growing in there. Do you have any plans for extra water circulation or surge devices?

No, not at the present, but it’s in the back of my mind eating away at me like a slow festering cancer. I’m weird that way... I frequently lay awake in bed at night worrying about fixing things that aren’t broke :)

I kind of like the idea of not controlling everything but as I mentioned beore I get busy. And it seems to me that the goal of products like the Eco-Wheel is moving towards a self-sustaining system. Bourneman's boook about corals mentions on the inside back cover he has a 500 gallon closed system without water changes. There are some thing that need to be done daily and occasionally they won't. I am primarily thinking of Kalkwasser for top up, any nutrient dosing, auto feeding, and perhaps auto water changes. There is also temperature and lighting control. If I get something to handle all of that, a couple more probes and I could have the "brains" watch for problems and bring them to my attention. Perhaps I could start looking for something bad before it gets too far out of hand. Being a newbie to salt I am sure I have a learning curve ahead of me and could use all the help I can get.

Look into a good tank controller like an Octopus or similar. They usually have a telephone interface than can set off a pager if a certain set of parameters fall out of line (like temp or pH).

Also remeber that I am used to keeping plants that cost 25-50 cents each that I can grow to double size within a few weeks. I've checked prices on some of therse corals. Wow! I could have filled a tank this size with plants for what a couple of those little finger sized frags cost. But they do look good!!!

Couple choices here.... start playing the lottery.... or join your local reef club and bribe everyone with copious amounts of beer and food in return for frags :)

You mentioned in your tear down that there was a scratch or two on the bearings of the wheel. Can you service them? Is there anything besides algae removal, changing burnt out bulbs and keeping critters out of the flow path required to keep this filter working correctly?

Nope! Once a week I harvest the algae, wipe down the front acrylic on the filter and lens on the light fixture and put the lid back on. Takes about 30 minutes. The bearings are really just tefelon axels in a recessed socket. They’re quite durable and those couple of scratches appear to be no big deal at all.

Regarding the hand held power washer/vacuum, I have often thought of one ot these too. The pull out shelf idea is a good one. I will remember that.

I should have some pics up in a couple weeks - I’m waiting on some parts. It’s pretty straightforward.... a couple hoses that will hang on the side of the tank like a normal cannister filter with a 3rd line for the pressure washer so I can do my cleaning at the same time. The only difference between this one and something like a Magnum is it’s bigger, beefier, and will flow like 1000gph instead of 200gph.

BTW - do you do any setup work on the outside? PM me if you would think about it.

LOL.... you’ve got a real sense of humor there Charles :)

Brett

[matt & pam]

Charles,
I just ordered an Eco-wheel from a shop in TN. I was very concerned about the business dealings with Chris, I rarely could reach him, but finally I received confirmation he could produce an eco-wheel unit. There has been a delay in receiving the unit, apparently the air pump isn't available. I hope this will be remedied some time this year.

This will be my first marine tank, and from my studies it appears to be a cost-effective approach. There is one dual system on a 500 gallon system at the Newport aquarium (KY). It's set up as a reef now, with a group of clownfish. Their system needs a lot of help, at least during the time I visited. It had hair algae everywhere. The store I bought from also had a problem one time I visited (about two months ago). The guy who maintains the tank was on vacation for a while and it appears there wasn't much harvesting during that period. Now two months later (and proper attention), the tank is back to looking great.

I agree with the other posts, you'll need either a bunch of eco-wheel units for a massive tank like you're planning.

Good luck.

Matt

[chask]

Matt & Pam,

Thanks for the info but now I'm confused. Is AE still making the unit or is it Algaewheel Inc. Maybe Chris is just finishing up your order.

I just tried Algaewheel and reached Chris Limcaco. He is the inventor. Said a guy named Chris Owens had purchased the aquarium rights from him a year or so ago. Hence the confusion (at least mine) on the Chris name thing. I got a phone number for Chris Owens and will try him tomorrow.

Chris Limcaco said custom work is done and that they had done one for a 25,000 gallon tank at an aquarium just recently (Hmm? Maybe I could just turn the equipment room into a tank :D), but that he thought the approach for my application would be a modular one. Oh well, guess I'll find out soon.


Brett,


I really like the Japanese tanks - especially the way they keep the rock height low and make the reef a forced perspective focal point of the bigger picture rather than an “in your face, overwhelming, use every last bit of space” kind of way.


Sounds a lot more like what I am after. Where does one get a look at the style? THough I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do, maybe I can get a few ideas.

Steve's tank and setup is very, very good. I had thought of many of his ideas (slide out lighting for instance but that was to change the bulbs) but had not figured out how to do it for sure. His implementation is better than the one I had conceived. To be fair, I also got more than a few ideas from him too.
:D


No. But about once a month I blast everything with a powerhead (including sand) and let a hang on tank cannister with a pleated cartridge run overnight to remove all the crud. That seems to be working well.


Doesn't that kind of defeat the air lift pump thingy? I guess you do not notice any adverse affects. Bonreman's book on coral mentioned some non-destructive pumps or technologies. Are you familiar with any of them?


Nope! Once a week I harvest the algae, wipe down the front acrylic on the filter and lens on the light fixture and put the lid back on. Takes about 30 minutes. The bearings are really just tefelon axels in a recessed socket. They’re quite durable and those couple of scratches appear to be no big deal at all.


That does not seem like a lot more work. And I do not see how going from 850 to 1250 is that much more work. maybe glass cleaning and perhaps an additional section of filter. Is that all that much? Am I missing something here?

Also, I do not see anything in Steve Weast's tank that looks to be difficult for him to reach except his is only 30" high. From my underarm (Ooops, sorry to be indelicate :D) I've got 28" to the center of my palm, and a little over 30" to my clenched finger tips and thumb. Subtract 5-6" DSB and 36" is about what Steve is doing now. One foot tongs does not seem out of reason unless it is more difficlt to work with the coral thingies with tongs than it is with FW plants and rocks. If I am up on a patform (like Steve W.) and get my sholder down to the top of the tank or just above the water level, I can probably add another 5-6" or so (still reaching the bottom with my clenched fingers and thumb. I think that would be pushing 40" at least, maybe 42". However, I've got a thread in Large Reef Tanks (How big? Concerned about maintenance on a large tank) where we should probably be discussing this if you want to help. No more from me about this here.

PS - Wasn't kidding about the help thing :D but I probably should find a DSB guy since I want to go that way. The more I think about this the more convinvced I am that I will eventually need someone who is experienced with this to be sure it is going together right. But boy you do nice work!


Thanks alot to all for all your help.
Charles

[caevan]

I have a question regarding the modification to the airlift.
When I first read that it would give an overall improvement in flow, it got my interest, and I went to the thread describing the modification.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136607&highlight=air+lift

The main concern I have with the modification, is the injector would drastically reduce the size of the air bubbles. In "Dynamic Aquaria" Dr Adey talks about bubble size, and the need to keep the bubble size quite large, to minimize the skimming effect which would be detrimental to planktonic life.

[matt & pam]

The eco-wheel sales rights are owned by Chris Owens, I believe he works out of mission pet mart, or something like that in KC. It's a challenge to reach him, IMO. Brett helped me finally get in touch. My impression is he concentrates on maintaining tanks in the KC area and doesn't spend much time marketing the eco-wheel. They used to advertise the system in FAMA every month, but I haven't seen an advertising in at least a year.

Matt.

[Putawaywet]

I'm not sure how many EcoWheels Chris actually sells in a year but it can't be a whole lot.

The way it is now we're practically a cult and from the sound of things it doesn't appear our little group will be growing by leaps and bounds anytime soon.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by caevan
I have a question regarding the modification to the airlift.
When I first read that it would give an overall improvement in flow, it got my interest, and I went to the thread describing the modification.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136607&highlight=air+lift

The main concern I have with the modification, is the injector would drastically reduce the size of the air bubbles. In "Dynamic Aquaria" Dr Adey talks about bubble size, and the need to keep the bubble size quite large, to minimize the skimming effect which would be detrimental to planktonic life.


Well, I'm not exactly making a whole lot of foam in my EcoWheel. Not even enough to leave a "scum" line on the acrylic.

The holes in my injector are 1/8" which produce some medium sized bubbles. Even viewing my section of clear acrylic tube in the airlift I can see some pretty decent sized bubbles.

My primary reason for making the modification was to try to even out the air injection as oppossed to the way it was before with the 1/2" hosebarb dumping it all in at one spot.

One of the newer probs that has developed seems to be directly related to placing the tanks on the carpet. The weight of the reef tank caused that section to settle just a tad more than the pier piling tank or the middle section with the EcoWheel.

It's probably not more that 1/4" of difference but it's having a huge impact on my setup. Due to the way ******* built the tanks the day-to-day water level ran very close to the top of my overflow grates. And now that the reef tank has settle independant of the rest of the system the optimum water level winds up being about 1/8" above the grating. So, surface skimming is greatly affected. If I let the water level drop any lower it affects the EcoWheel and I get sporadic rotation.

The easy fix would be to valve down the return lines to create a little back pressure in the EcoWheel but that in turn affects the flow going into the reef. So it's a catch 22.

So, modifying the overflow grating may be an alternative I may have to explore down the road.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Just out of curiosity, those of you currently running an EcoWheel how easy is it for you to stop the wheel's rotation with your hand?

I thought I remembered reading in the testimonial on A.E.'s website where the writer said that it took "some" deliberate effort to hold the wheel in place.

I'm finding that (especially when it's loaded down with algae and on the "up stroke" portion of rotation) that it takes a surprisingly small amount of effort to keep it from rotating.

Brett

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by chask
Sounds a lot more like what I am after. Where does one get a look at the style? THough I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do, maybe I can get a few ideas.

Here ya go Charles... a little Japanese eye candy for the soul.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441773&highlight=japanese

Brett

[matt & pam]

I thought if the eco-wheel hasn't been harvested and is overgrown in algae it will stop?

[Flatlander]

Originally posted by matt & pam
The eco-wheel sales rights are owned by Chris Owens, I believe he works out of mission pet mart, or something like that in KC. It's a challenge to reach him, IMO. Brett helped me finally get in touch. My impression is he concentrates on maintaining tanks in the KC area and doesn't spend much time marketing the eco-wheel. They used to advertise the system in FAMA every month, but I haven't seen an advertising in at least a year.

Matt.

It seems thats common now with most retailers of algae filtration systems. Shame. Makes one wonder? Hmmmm

Agree with Brett, seems like we are a small cult group. :lol: I dont even fit in that one, as I still use a skimmer also. :D

[t12345]

Brett,
You said that you had added a drain to the eco-wheel filter, could you post a picture of that? I guess its to drain any detritus build up at the bottom of the filter? It sounds like you do all your water changes by emptying the eco-wheel filter box? have you found another source than A.E. for a backup airpump? Your setup looks outstanding, meticulous detailing on that plumping!
Tim

[Putawaywet]

Tim,

To answer your questions....

Sure, no problem

No, not really - pretty much water only

Yes

No, not yet but I'm still looking

Many thanks.


Doug,

There's always one in every crowd. :D

On the other hand, you know what they say about the company you keep...

So as long as you're buying feel free to pull up a chair :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/23770EcoWheel_01.jpg

Not pictured is the quick disconnect I added for the hose to the end of the ball valve - something I can't say enough good things about. The only drawback is it's about 25' to the nearest drain and since that adds up to a whole bunch of 3/4" hose I'm having to tuff it out with a couple of 5gal buckets and some old fashion muscle.

Brett

[chask]

Brett,


a little Japanese eye candy for the soul.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hlight=japanese



Thanks Brett.

I like this too. Have you seen Ken's Reef (http://www.kensreef.homestead.com/) ? Another one I really like, and what got me thinking about this in the first place, is Terry Seigel's tank shown on page 27 of Michael Paletta's Ultimate Marine Aquarioms.

I was kind of thinking something like Steve's or Ken's but with a little more (and steeper) rock structure in a couple of places - probably best described as a transition between what these two have done and what is more common now. A little of the in your face look but well back from the glass. I want to show a pinnacle reach the surface in the middle, a couple of caves and arches off of it and off one of the taller structures down at the unopen end (tank will be visible in one room on long and short side, along the other long side from another room). To acheive this and make it look good I think I will need as much square footage as I can get. After seeing Steve's efforts (6' x 7.5') I am seriously thinking about a 4.5-5' depth. I have a post in the Large Reef tank section and am getting the strong idea I should not go above my arm's reach anywhere in the tank. With a DSB, this will probably keep it down to 38-40" tall.

I do not think that I realized this until your post about the "in your face, overwhelming, use every last bit of space" design concept most use (well maybe not to the extent that I had tried to verbalize it anyway). It seems like most reef tanks I have seen over the years looked like what you descirbed. Few have tried to show a larger picture of the reef. I hope to acheive the affect by using smaller fish (3-5" max) along with appropriate scale and shape of rock structure. Space the corals out a little giving them room to grow out like they do in nature (at least in some places anyway). Can't use as many different species as I would like and probably will not have any bigger fish (>6") but I may see a few that make me give in on this one. Think I need to see the thing up and running before I finally decide. My big fear is that the corals will grow out of proportion and kind of destroy the affect.



One of the newer probs that has developed seems to be directly related to placing the tanks on the carpet. The weight of the reef tank caused that section to settle just a tad more than the pier piling tank or the middle section with the EcoWheel.


Have you tried shimming the cabinet? You might try making a couple of really long tapered shims out of some reasonably hard (not too compressible) wood. Use a thin but heaevily tapered metal wedge to get the tank up on one corner and perhaps a pry bar to get the cabinet up a little more than necessary. Slide the shim in as far as possible then hammer the sucker firmly into place. I know you tiled around the base and carpet underneath. This will be difficult without redoing someting. Maybe it can be done from inside the cabinet though I cannot imagine doing anything to that magnificaent display underneath your tank.

Hadn't thought of it before but it seems logical that with the extra weight in the big tank on one end this might happen. Hmmm.



Brett -
I'm not sure how many EcoWheels Chris actually sells in a year but it can't be a whole lot.

The way it is now we're practically a cult and from the sound of things it doesn't appear our little group will be growing by leaps and bounds anytime soon


Flatlander -
It seems thats common now with most retailers of algae filtration systems. Shame. Makes one wonder? Hmmmm

Agree with Brett, seems like we are a small cult group. I dont even fit in that one, as I still use a skimmer also.


This is not a comforting thought for someone just starting out. Are those of you running the Eco-Wheel really happy with your filters and results? Would you buy one again?

I would hate to set this up and then have problems with no one to provide any support or spare stuff needed to get mine running again. Guess I could always go back to the more tried methods. Or is this why you suggested a more generic room design Brett?

On a side note - I do not understand why someone would purchase the rights to make something then not make it. Not that I'm a great businessman but the economics of this escape me.

Charles

[Putawaywet]

Thanks for the suggestion but even if I could reach the right rear corner of the reef tank I doubt I'll be shiming my stand anytime soon. Way too risky to mess with the dynamic load of a couple thousand pounds after the fact. Besides, much easier to lengthen the grating openings with a file. Hindsight being what it is... what I should have done was just take the time to rip out the carpet and padding - but oh well.

Yes, I'd buy another EcoWheel in a heart beat. Not only are the things built like a M1 tank, but the only long term probs I have ever heard of are from people looking for replacement air pumps or light bulbs.

Out of the entire design you really only have 3 mechanical pieces of equipment.... the rotating wheel, air pump and lighting unit. The first of the three I highly doubt you'll have any probs with. The second, while taking a bit of work, is not impossible to replace. And the third, easily replaceable with any number of offerings from numerous vendors.

Ref Chris purchasing the rights but not marketing it - I'd like to think it's a simple matter of him not wanting to see a decent piece of equipment dissapear from the hobby, but being stretched too thin and not having sufficient capital to really run with it. But that's just speculation on my part.

Brett

[caevan]

Brett,

How many rpm are you getting on the eco wheel. The manual state 4 rpm is optimal fro algal growth. When I frist started mine I was getting about 6 to 8 rpm, Chris Limcaco suggested placing some screen material on the centre section of the wheel to slow it down. This works reasonablly well until, the screen becomes, too covered with algae, to the point that even regular removal does not allow enough water flow to move the wheel.

I was just wondering what you did in this regard.

[chask]

Brett,


I doubt I'll be shiming my stand anytime soon. Way too risky to mess with the dynamic load of a couple thousand pounds after the fact. Besides, much easier to lengthen the grating openings with a file. Hindsight being what it is... what I should have done was just take the time to rip out the carpet and padding - but oh well.


I probably should have added drain a lot of the water out of the tank for a short period of time. Looking at your pictures you could probably get about half out of there with out surfacing your corals. It would make it a lot easier. Also, I was not thinking about getting it up a couplke of inches, just the major part of the load off the floor or a fraction of an inch, just enough so that a wedge could be hammered in underneath. But you are right about the risk of the dynamic load. Tough deal. Sorry you have a problem and I hope whatever course you take it gets resolved without too much aggravation or effort.


Yes, I'd buy another EcoWheel in a heart beat. Not only are the things built like a M1 tank, but the only long term probs I have ever heard of are from people looking for replacement air pumps or light bulbs.


After seeing they way you do things I put a lot of faith in your recommendation.

Anybody else?


RE: Chris Owens and the future of the wheel.
Is there any work out there to substantiate its effectiveness? Seems like if it were a good idea and a proven one, it would not take much to develope this into a line of filters for various sized tanks.

I have read some stuff by Sprung and Delbeek indicating that the ATS type filters need something more than just the filter - micro nutrient additions through supllement or water change. However, I don't think they mentioned the Eco-Wheel specifically. I think I also read that there was some question about the natural food source produced by ATS's not being exactly what corals need but I could be wrong about that. I have read sooo much in a very short time.

On the other hand the back of the inside cover of Eric Borneman's book says he has a 500 gallon, three tank setup that does not have any type of conventional filter. He uses a sea weed tank, one that sounded like what many call a refugium (mangrove), and a display tank. I have not read anything in his book yet that describes the setup nor the normal maintenance and feeding regimens.

From everything I have read it certainly seems like this type of filter shows the best promise to achieve the low effort good results method everyone would like to find.

Charles

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by caevan
Brett,

How many rpm are you getting on the eco wheel. The manual state 4 rpm is optimal fro algal growth. When I frist started mine I was getting about 6 to 8 rpm, Chris Limcaco suggested placing some screen material on the centre section of the wheel to slow it down. This works reasonablly well until, the screen becomes, too covered with algae, to the point that even regular removal does not allow enough water flow to move the wheel.

I was just wondering what you did in this regard.

I'm nowhere near 6-8rpm / more like 3 maybe 4 on a good day. If I valve the thing back I can get like 6, but I wind up with like half the flow.

There are even times when the water level is a little low, the wheel is full of algae, and I can actually stand there for what seems like an eternity waiting for the wheel to decide if it's going to make another trip around.

On the other hand, if I increase the water level so it's above the overflow grating the wheel will turn faster but then I lose surface skimming in the tank. Also, you've probably noticed the water coming in from your influent box(s) seems to have more "kick" to it if it has a little distance to drop before it hits that water in the tank. Raising the water level in the tank reduces the distance the influent water has to fall which takes away some of the "ooomph"
It's a real catch 22.

About the only think I have been doing is trying to service the wheel on a regular basis, remove as much corraline as possible to reduce excess weight and keep water levels as consistant as possible. That seems to work but it requires that I stay deligent.

I still get a bunch of algae, so all things considered, my rotation must be OK.

I take it you wheel has the screening that wraps all the way around? Mine doesn't - my algae grows directly on the PVC wheel itself.

Brett