Starting with AF- SPS heavy

[BryanS4]

Ok, read the guides and a good number of past threads. I'm somewhat confused because I see lots mentioned about Coral A, B, V, E, but I see no mention of that in the guide.

For Sps tank I have the below listed to buy, does this look good?

Probiotic salt
Po4 minus
Carbon

Pro bio s
Pro bio f
Np pro

Energy
Build
Amino mix
Vitality
Power food

I'm going to continue with Brs two part, for the main three, just because I have so much on hand.

Does this look ok? Just was confused about first part, no longer seeing coral a ect.

Thank you.

[BryanS4]

Ok, I'm a complete idiot. Figured out just the first letter of each, wow feel dumb.

The rest look ok?

[elviraveloz]

Don't feel dumb, AF just recently change names on these products.

[BryanS4]

Got everything ordered up and I'm going to start the program next weekend.

I read on the other board that pro bio f and pro bio s shouldn't be dosed on the same day, any truth to this?

[Aquaforest]

Hello,
Your plan is great.
Pro Bio F contains probiotic bacteria and culture medium to reduce PO4 and NO3. You Can dose that alternately with Pro Bio S.

Good Luck!:)

[BryanS4]

Thank you. Getting ready to get started this weekend.

http://i.imgur.com/VQXKeV9.jpg

[drawman]

Brian it sounds like you're doing exactly what I am with BRS and AF. Good luck and it will be cool to see how things go for you!

[Aquaforest]

We are waiting for updates of Your tank!

Also we are invite to join to our Facebook official Group :
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1490485151247025/

Regards,
Aquforest

[BryanS4]

I did my first 10% water change on Sunday and also started dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S.

I'm starting out dosing 50% of the recommended amount so nutrients don't drop to fast in the tank. So far after a few days all looks good and I'm looking forward to the next couple of weeks.

I'm holding off dosing any of the supplements for about 2 weeks or when I see no3 and po4 at levels close to zero. I dosed in the past to keep no3 around 3 and po4 was around .06. It was about .02 and I took gfo offline for a few weeks to see what the results would be.

Facebook group joined, thank you.

I'll get some before pics in the coming days and can't wait to see some after pics in the coming months.

[jason78]

Bryan,

Can you confirm the Phos Minus looks like GFO and the Carbon Looks like BRS carbon? This is what I have been told. I just wonder why zeovit would be against GFO and this brand has it.

[BryanS4]

In terms of pure looks they both look different. The carbon is more of a small pellet and the gfo isn't as quite as fine as Brs. The gfo is also clean and doesn't need to be rinsed, which is really nice.

I was running both Brs carbon and gfo before making the switch, so I was able to make accurate comparasion.

[BryanS4]

I don't have a nice camera, but will try to get a buddy to take some close ups of some of the acros to compare colors.

http://i.imgur.com/Aysblln.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oJWxl6G.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sOYHaAu.jpg

[BryanS4]

This upcoming Sunday will be two weeks worth of dosing. I started off with the salt and 50% of the recommended amount of np pro, pro bio s as well as the media, carbon, po4 minus and zerolites.

Starting levels:
No3-3
Po4- .06

Today:
No3- 0
Po4- .006

I'm going to start dosing 50% of the coral supplements tomorrow.

[Aquaforest]

Nice, We are waiting for more updates!:)

[BryanS4]

Corals are actually starting to lose a little color. I'm going to keep at it and see if things turn the corner over the next few months. I don't want to rush and pull the plug before I've given the system a fair shot. Tomorrow is 5 weeks.

[carlosmos]

To AF Team...

Working at zero levels there are risk to cyano? Like zeovit.


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[BryanS4]

I think I'll start feeding a little more to see if that helps out a little.

[plyle02]

Bryan,
What are NO3 and PO4 currently running? Also, how many fish are currently in the system? When you say losing color, are they fading or browning?
Thanks :)

[plyle02]

To AF Team...

Working at zero levels there are risk to cyano? Like zeovit.


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There is always a chance of cyano, however, I have not smelled one product that has a vinegar smell. That said, I had green cyano, I was able to successfully treat it. I have not even a spot now. This was a month back :)

[BryanS4]

Hey Perry-

Fading in color, not browning. Just not as bright as they were and it's easy to see on certain ones.

I tested both after posting this and both are at zero. No3 tested on RS Pro and Po4 on Hanna Ulr.

I have some nano3 laying around and might mix some up to get the no3 up a little.

[plyle02]

Yeah,
I was sort of thinking that, you could bump to full dose of Aminomix, Vitality, and Build at this point. I would dose on alternating nights for now. I do Aminomix and Vitality the same night, next night I do Energy and Build opposite nights. I would remain at 1/2 dose on Energy until you get the nitrates up. That and I would feed you fish more, and using frozen if you have it. I personally use LRS Reef Frenzy, and LOVE it :) I notice you use Power Food too, I would also dose this every night after lights off. This will help get more food to the corals. To me, it sounds like the nutrients have bottomed out, you now know your threshold, so you can feed without worry. If you can get the nitrated to around 2ppm, I think you will be very happy with the results! Cheers! :)

[BryanS4]

Thanks for the advice. Dosing up to full strength tomorrow.

I use LRS Reef Frenzy as well, nothing else goes into my tanks!

I just dosed a little nano3, to hold me over until full strength of the others.

[BryanS4]

I have been dosing no3 and its stating to look a little better. I'm m curious that see how the colors look next week after 2 weeks of no3 over 3.

[BryanS4]

Towel tossed in.

Travel to much for this and also can't say I'm happy with results. Pale corals and my glass is nasty, green film after a day.

If anyone in Florida reads this, AF products for really cheap.

Back to the proven.

[plyle02]

Bryan,
Sorry to see you having troubles :( Please let me know if I can do anything to help you get the system right for you? You have a lot invested, and would love to see your tank achieving the results that many are having. It could be something fairly simple. Like backing off one product and increasing another. Also, I know you travel, but I have done so as well and my girlfriend was able to dose the simple stuff, like just the NP Pro and Pro Bio S. I simply did not use supplements while out of town. I just catch up when I return. I am not trying to convince you to stay with something that you are convinced does not work for you, however if you are still on the fence, I will gladly lend you my time. Please let me know :) Thanks

[BryanS4]

Bryan,
Sorry to see you having troubles :( Please let me know if I can do anything to help you get the system right for you? You have a lot invested, and would love to see your tank achieving the results that many are having. It could be something fairly simple. Like backing off one product and increasing another. Also, I know you travel, but I have done so as well and my girlfriend was able to dose the simple stuff, like just the NP Pro and Pro Bio S. I simply did not use supplements while out of town. I just catch up when I return. I am not trying to convince you to stay with something that you are convinced does not work for you, however if you are still on the fence, I will gladly lend you my time. Please let me know :) Thanks

You have been awesome and I can't thank you enough for answering pms and also questions on the boards.

I guess you could say I'm on the fence, but my corals are not loving life. They looked so good 8 weeks ago and today, no so much.

Just so mad color is looking this way I rush to judgement .

[plyle02]

Do me a favor Bryan, update your thread on Tampa, or post me some pics here. Also, could you please let me know details? Current parameters, feeding routine, amount of fish, lighting, etc. I understand how you are feeling, it does get frustrating when things are not looking so good. Let's see if we can maybe determine what is going on. Cheers!

[BryanS4]

Below is rough idea of what I have going on.

140g total water volume.

Alk- 7.5
Ca- 420
Mg-1300
No3- 5, dosed to this level
Po4- 0 on Hanna Ulr

I don't have a ton of fish, but I feed pretty heavy. 3 tangs, 2 anthias, 1 chromis, 1 Royal gramma, 2 clowns. Fed twice a day, LRS Reef Frenzy.

For lights I have ATI Sunpower, 6 bulb about 10" off the water. Photo period 8.5 hrs total, 7.5 hours of all 6 on.

I stopped dosing AF products yesterday, but below is what I was dosing.

Pro bio s - 5 drops on everything
Np pro- 25 ml
A and v on Mon / Wed / Fri
E and b on Tue / thur / sat
Component abc during weekly water change- 3 caps

Again colors really fading, especially green and glass gets really bad green dust within hours of cleaning. It's awful if left for 2 plus days.

I'll try and get some pics later today when light come on. I think I can get a good one of BC Rainbow Spain showing colors.

[carlosmos]

I think you add to much pro bio S... For 140 liters I thing is only 1-2 drops.
Same with no pro... 2 drops is enough.


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[BryanS4]

I'm sorry, 140 total gallons, not liters.

[carlosmos]

Oh sorry for my side too


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[plyle02]

Yes, plus you are using the dosable NP Pro, correct? Did I read you were dosing KNO3? If your values are that low, then I would back down to maybe 10ml of NP Pro per day. See if that way your system does not need nitrate dosing. The idea is to use the Pro Bio S and NP Pro based on YOUR fish and coral cast. While the recommended doses are great, there are more variables that cause one system to naturally process nutrients more efficiently than another system. So system A. for example may need very little bac and carbon source to maintain low nutrients, while system B. may need the max daily dosing to maintain the said nutrient levels. I am currently running 0.04 on PO4 and 2ppm on NO3. I too feed LRS and 3 times per day. I dose almost the same as you with slightly lower values. How about try and lower the NP Pro to 10ml per day, and Pro Bio S to 3 drops. Allow the system to rise in nutrients a bit. I would drop all other dosing to 3 drops as well. If you have the dry coral food, I would dose that every night during lights out, to get additional nutrients to your corals. Sounds like the system is too clean, and that explains colors being pulled out. The green glass algae will likely go down with a decrease in the dosing. How is the skimmer behaving, I bet that the skim is dark and is collecting really well, if not, maybe it needs to be tuned in a bit. I would most certainly set it to dry skimm. Look forward to pics!!!

[BryanS4]

A few pics.

BC Rainbow Spain with green color and purple tips. Second one is from just now. Lost almost all Green base and can barley see color on tips.

PC Rainbow. Lost green and yellow and the base. Just a dual Red color now.

Just a few quick pics from the iPad.

http://i.imgur.com/iQsMGFk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/O2uVzpI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WqJ2AkS.jpg

[plyle02]

I see your comparison with the Spainbow, and I get what you are seeing. To me the corals seem to be pale, not pastel, which to me indicates to lower c-source dosing, and increase the nutrients in the tank. May I suggest not dosing KNO3 and up your fish feeding a tad. If you are using zeolites, perhaps lower the amount of volume, and slow the flow rate a bit. Can you also let me know how much zeolites, what reactor, and what the flow is, also can you mention when you change out the media? Same with phos minus, you could lower the amount needed. It seems the system is running too nutrient poor, which is a good problem if you have a ton of fish and feed the heck out of them. As mentioned, your bioload is relatively low, so use coral foods and up the fish feedings a bit. I would also back down on E or Energy, as it has copper sulfate, not a lot, but with the nutrients being very low, I would back down on this to 2 drops every other day. I would also drop to 3 drops every day on Pro Bio S and NP Pro. You could do 4 to 5 drops of aminomix every other day to help with more nutrients.

[BryanS4]

Appreciate the suggestions. I'll give it another few weeks and see how things look at that point.

Media amounts:
Zeolites- 1 cup
Carbon- .8 cup
Po4 minus- .5 cup

I have them all in a NextReef MR1, flow just enough to make gfo tumble.

I changed the media out two weeks ago, planned schedule is ever month.

[plyle02]

Appreciate the suggestions. I'll give it another few weeks and see how things look at that point.

Media amounts:
Zeolites- 1 cup
Carbon- .8 cup
Po4 minus- .5 cup

I have them all in a NextReef MR1, flow just enough to make gfo tumble.

I changed the media out two weeks ago, planned schedule is ever month.

OK, those amounts seem just fine, leave them there for now. Let's back down on the others and see if you can get the nutrients up a tad in the tank. The polyp extension looks good, so the health of the corals is there, maybe these adjustments will get the colors you desire. Some corals will pastel, which is normal, but pale is another story. I can imagine you are still doing water changes with Probiotic Reef Salt, so continue it's use as well. Many probiotic systems will take a few months to dial in, so try and do your best to stick it out. If you get the chance, check out some of the AF tanks, make sure those colors are what you desire. The rich deeply saturated colors are not common in these type of setups, I sort of journal changes on my thread if you check it out. Good luck, sorry to hear about the troubles, but I think it will work, with a bit of understanding of the carbon/bac source and the role they play on nutrients. Cheers Bryan!

[reefmutt]

bump.. :)
hey Perry.. so this is where you spend all of your free time now!
Bryan, It appears to me that Perry is on the right track here with his concerns about your low nutrients..
I am not a full AF system user but I do use some of their products.. and I guess you could call me an AF sympathizer. :)
I have found that although dosing nitrates is beneficial to starved corals, simply having some naturally occurring nitrates in the system is way better..
One other point.. How much kno3 do (did) you have to use? It could be elevating your potassium.. I'm not sure if you are testing for K...

[BryanS4]

Didn't really want to put this here, but things so much better for me after a few water changes with good old instant ocean.

The system just wasn't for me. I travel so much for work, it was hard to ask my wife to remember to dose everyday. To each their own, but ulns system and dosing wasn't for me.

[Diana A]

How is your tank looking now?

[BryanS4]

And to answer your question, I only dosed kno3 for two weeks while running the system and the corals already looked awful by then.

I test for K ever two weeks, that wasn't the problem.

Some things work for some and not for others, and this just wasn't for me. hope it works for others.

I put a thread up, but I have have my stuff for pretty much free if anyone in Tampa area. Trash day next Tuesday, but will hold till Friday if someone wants it.

[plyle02]

Hey Bryan,
Sorry that it did not work out, and you are right, many ways to have success, wish you all the best with your tank and journey with the hobby :) Cheers

[BryanS4]

How is your tank looking now?

Much better. Pale corals take time, but things are looking much better for me.

I'm sure this system is killer, but what works for one tank may not work for Another.

[BryanS4]

Thank you Perry. Your willingness to answer questions is great. Keep up the good work and who knows may try this again down the road.