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HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 03:21 PM
I am designing a new house for my wife and I, the main focus of the plan is to make the home like a private "public" aquarium, one such habitat/tank we have been kicking around is a cold water reef with the main attraction being King crabs, I don't want to get into a ton of detail here, as when the project becomes more of a reality I will give it its own thread, I am simply wondering if anyone has a source for live King crabs, all I have been able to find on the inter web is live crabs for human consumption, and I assume mortality rate trying to keep as a pet would be high going that route. Any ideas? And yes I understand they are huge, the plan the our engineer and architect are working on is too the tune of 75000 gallons of saltwater spread in various displays throughout the home. Anyhow, just turned here looking for king crab sources.

Lilbitreefer
04/13/2016, 03:36 PM
contact one of the aquariums wheres you live. What state are you in. NC for example has a whole slew of them and I'm sure they might be willing t o help out or at least point you in the right direction.

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 03:40 PM
Good thought , nearest aquarium is like 150 miles, I'm in Erie pa.

Lilbitreefer
04/13/2016, 05:13 PM
You can e-mail or call the curator..well I think that is what they call them.. I dunno but worth a shot. Let them know what you plan on doing and sometimes if it means helping the environment or saving a population they are more willing to help out.

dkeller_nc
04/13/2016, 05:47 PM
If you're serious about designing a large home around 75,000 gallons of saltwater, it's nearly an imperative that you take 8-10 trips around the country to get a behind-the-scenes look at public aquariums. Your displays may not be public, but the size and complexity still fits in the "public aquarium" category.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about visiting the public facilities as a tourist, but getting a look at the equipment necessary to run the tanks, and speaking with the folks looking after the animals.

Rather obviously, you'll be hiring several folks to do the same at your home, since taking care of 75,000 gallons is not possible for any one person, but it still helps to get the perspective of folks that do it as a full-time job.

You'll also absolutely need to hire a company that specializes in this sort of thing. A firm like Reynolds-Polymer (http://www.reynoldspolymer.com/Aquarium-Design-Engineering), for example. Such a company would not only be able to design your exhibits appropriate to the animals you'd like to keep, but also have significant contacts for sourcing such animals, like the coldwater crabs you're contemplating.

Maritimer
04/13/2016, 06:40 PM
I work in an aquarium where they kept a couple of those for a while some years back. (No, don't have a source for crabs, as I'm more in the education end of things... I know that they often do acquire new fish through commercial fishermen, though.) One of the problems they faced was keeping the water cold enough. Seemed like there was always a big block of ice floating around in there. . .

Good luck, and I hope it works - 'cause this plan of yours sounds amazing!

~Bruce

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 07:51 PM
If you're serious about designing a large home around 75,000 gallons of saltwater, it's nearly an imperative that you take 8-10 trips around the country to get a behind-the-scenes look at public aquariums. Your displays may not be public, but the size and complexity still fits in the "public aquarium" category.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about visiting the public facilities as a tourist, but getting a look at the equipment necessary to run the tanks, and speaking with the folks looking after the animals.

Rather obviously, you'll be hiring several folks to do the same at your home, since taking care of 75,000 gallons is not possible for any one person, but it still helps to get the perspective of folks that do it as a full-time job.

You'll also absolutely need to hire a company that specializes in this sort of thing. A firm like Reynolds-Polymer (http://www.reynoldspolymer.com/Aquarium-Design-Engineering), for example. Such a company would not only be able to design your exhibits appropriate to the animals you'd like to keep, but also have significant contacts for sourcing such animals, like the coldwater crabs you're contemplating.


My/our thinking was that a most public aquarium are still too large scale to really pertain to this project. We have spent some time examining smaller facilities such as some zoos that have smaller scale public aquariums, as well as some research facilities, such as sea turtle rehab, and such that the size is more similar. ... In short I appreciate the advice, the project is still in it's infancy, I'm sure we will be seeking more information from the boards as well as sharing the progress as we get more into it. As for hiring out the whole deal, not only does that not fit our budget, but it's just not my style. What I find most exciting about this is our intent to DIY a vast majority.

Halo_003
04/13/2016, 07:57 PM
My/our thinking was that a most public aquarium are still too large scale to really pertain to this project. We have spent some time examining smaller facilities such as some zoos that have smaller scale public aquariums, as well as some research facilities, such as sea turtle rehab, and such that the size is more similar. ... In short I appreciate the advice, the project is still in it's infancy, I'm sure we will be seeking more information from the boards as well as sharing the progress as we get more into it. As for hiring out the whole deal, not only does that not fit our budget, but it's just not my style. What I find most exciting about this is our intent to DIY a vast majority.

So I see two potential problems.

1. You have a budget. 75,000G is no joke, even just the salt to make that much water would be $$$$.
2. Have you considered the power draw of this system? Not just the lighting, filtration, etc, but the cooling to sustain the temps you need will be an absolutely massive power load.

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 08:07 PM
So I see two potential problems.

1. You have a budget. 75,000G is no joke, even just the salt to make that much water would be $$$$.
2. Have you considered the power draw of this system? Not just the lighting, filtration, etc, but the cooling to sustain the temps you need will be an absolutely massive power load.

I appreciate your concern, I assure you even public aquariums being build have a budget they are working within. 75k is just a "kicking around number" could end up only being 30 or 40k gallons, depends on what it takes to get the appearance and feel we are seeking.

I will gladly share costs and sources for all materials when the time comes, I can tell you it will be instant ocean in super sacks delivered by an 18 wheeler.

My electrical engineer is working directly with the electric company at our homesite. As well as exploring alternative sustainable energy options.

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 08:08 PM
Our geographic location lends itself well to geothermal cooling.

And just for entertainment consider that even if I was going to buy 200g boxes of IO at full blown retail, the cost would only be 24k to make 75000 gallons, not to discount 24k as being nothing, but it's small potatoes on the scale of building a home, let alone a project of this scale

JohnnyHildo
04/13/2016, 08:11 PM
So I see two potential problems.

1. You have a budget. 75,000G is no joke, even just the salt to make that much water would be $$$$.
2. Have you considered the power draw of this system? Not just the lighting, filtration, etc, but the cooling to sustain the temps you need will be an absolutely massive power load.

add to that, out of curiosity i just looked it up and the average 21-foot residential swimming pool holds 21,000 gallons. to run nearly 4x in aquarium form seems like a very ambitious goal without having your hobby become your part time job.

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 08:18 PM
Like I said though, I didn't want to derail this thread, the only reason for mentioning the project, was to avoid responses like "they get really big" or " your going to need a chiller" .
So like I said I will start a build thread when the time comes. I have been researching and planning for nearly 10 years. This is a dream becoming reality, and I will be glad to share

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 08:21 PM
add to that, out of curiosity i just looked it up and the average 21-foot residential swimming pool holds 21,000 gallons. to run nearly 4x in aquarium form seems like a very ambitious goal without having your hobby become your part time job.

Like I said 75k might end up being 40k or 30k we have had plans drawn with everything from 15k to 90k over the last 5 years.

It will undoubtedly become a part time labor of love.

Halo_003
04/13/2016, 09:08 PM
I appreciate your concern, I assure you even public aquariums being build have a budget they are working within. 75k is just a "kicking around number" could end up only being 30 or 40k gallons, depends on what it takes to get the appearance and feel we are seeking.

I will gladly share costs and sources for all materials when the time comes, I can tell you it will be instant ocean in super sacks delivered by an 18 wheeler.

My electrical engineer is working directly with the electric company at our homesite. As well as exploring alternative sustainable energy options.

Sorry, wasn't intending to derail, just was thinking about the power draw from phase change cooling (works the same as an AC or chiller essentially) on a computer processor to -100C, it's in the range of 2kW or so, where the CPU is a 350W heat load.

I think as mentioned above your best shot at finding some of these crabs in good health would be to go through public aquariums, they definitely have the contacts.

Doing some Googling, you might see if you can get in touch with Aquarium of the Pacific, (located in CA), they seem to have a distributor for their AKC who might be able to help. Not sure if the link below will work, but they list him as Lamar Ballard. Obviously a visit out to them would be a bit further than NC, but they might be able to point you in the right direction at least.
http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/blogs/comments/on_the_road_with_the_husbandry_team

And here's the page on the exhibit that has them: http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/exhibits/northern_pacific_gallery/

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 11:15 PM
Thanks, I'll talk to them in two weeks while I'm there, then off to Monterey bay. I'll make contact ahead of time, I can't remember the girls name at AoP who we have been talking too right off hand.... I'll give her a call in AM.

HeavyChicken
04/13/2016, 11:19 PM
MB is just for fun, they draw 100% NSW from the bay, doesn't help me much. But I'm sure I can pick up some husbandry advice! But we are excited to meet the giant Pacific octopus.

dkeller_nc
04/14/2016, 09:16 AM
My/our thinking was that a most public aquarium are still too large scale to really pertain to this project. We have spent some time examining smaller facilities such as some zoos that have smaller scale public aquariums, as well as some research facilities, such as sea turtle rehab, and such that the size is more similar. ... In short I appreciate the advice, the project is still in it's infancy, I'm sure we will be seeking more information from the boards as well as sharing the progress as we get more into it. As for hiring out the whole deal, not only does that not fit our budget, but it's just not my style. What I find most exciting about this is our intent to DIY a vast majority.

Certainly seems like you've done your homework (visiting zoos and other public aquariums). That's primarily what I was getting at. I do see quite a number of DIY'ers that haven't done their homework, vastly overestimate their skills when it comes to hydraulic design, power engineering, heat transfer and control system engineering and the like. And yet have a big enough budget and ambition to get them into real trouble.

Most of the time they simply don't realize that a 3000g + aquarium differs not only in scale, but also in kind from the 150g home hobbyist tanks that they're familiar with.

That was my thought about hiring a company that specializes in designing large aquatic display installations. Certainly doesn't keep you from sourcing, purchasing and installing the tanks and equipment yourself, but you'll have professional expert advice on what will work and what won't.

Sounds like quite an impressive opportunity, we'll all certainly be excited to see the results!

HeavyChicken
04/14/2016, 10:24 AM
It should be fun, one thing a little different that we have been discussing with the engineer is using all framed/plywood displays , so that in the future the home could be converted for someone with dissimilar interests to ours. Of course footings, and such would have to stay, but having the ability to disassemble the displays in the event it is necessary is somewhat critical to potential resale. When I told the engineer that I wanted to make the displays out of plywood, he laughed, then called me back a week later and said .... "So it appears this actually happens" ... Lol

Reef Frog
04/14/2016, 12:26 PM
Don't King Crabs live in water well below 40F? Man, that's cold. I imagine the challenges of keeping that temperature in transit and long term in the aquarium would be considerable.

I would think you'd need a special cooler with dry ice air freighted direct from Alaska to a lower 48 airport on a non stop flight. Depending on the season they catch them, the best way to do it might be on a visit to Alaska and direct purchase at the docks.

Besides the temperature issue, the other problem will be all the jokes about "breaking out the steamer & drawn butter" from visitors.

zzl630
04/14/2016, 01:00 PM
In log angeles there are several seafood places carry live king crab. Problem how to transfer to PA.
http://www.kristiehang.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_1148.jpg

HeavyChicken
04/14/2016, 04:19 PM
Don't King Crabs live in water well below 40F? Man, that's cold. I imagine the challenges of keeping that temperature in transit and long term in the aquarium would be considerable.

I would think you'd need a special cooler with dry ice air freighted direct from Alaska to a lower 48 airport on a non stop flight. Depending on the season they catch them, the best way to do it might be on a visit to Alaska and direct purchase at the docks.

Besides the temperature issue, the other problem will be all the jokes about "breaking out the steamer & drawn butter" from visitors.

My research indicates up to 55 is acceptable, I'd be interested in reading reasearch that refutes this.

Halo_003
04/14/2016, 09:56 PM
I would think you'd need a special cooler with dry ice air freighted direct from Alaska to a lower 48 airport on a non stop flight. Depending on the season they catch them, the best way to do it might be on a visit to Alaska and direct purchase at the docks.

That's an interesting idea actually IMO and probably isn't a bad backup plan, not to mention then they would literally be WYSIWYG(can pick size/ensure good health). It would be a bit expensive but most likely not prohibitively so. I'd imagine the hardest part would be actually transporting them in a big enough cooler setup.

HeavyChicken
04/15/2016, 03:14 AM
Some variant of that plan may work. You can't ship live animals on dry ice though. 2 reasons.
1.,anything in a cooler with dry ice will be frozen solid in a few hours.
2. Dry ice is CO2 and it offgasses massive amounts of it, I would think anything dependant on oxygen to survive would surly suffocate. ..... Which may be a non issue, due to the slow respiratory rate caused by being frozen solid.

Mioduz
04/15/2016, 04:54 AM
I'm in Erie PA and would love to see this setup

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sde1500
04/15/2016, 06:22 AM
Which may be a non issue, due to the slow respiratory rate caused by being frozen solid.

:lol::lol:

That got a good laugh out of me haha.

Very cool idea, amazing scale for a project.

skiwez
04/15/2016, 06:36 AM
You might want to reach out to Joe at long Island Aquarium he had some in a display. Essentially turned his hobby into a public aquarium. Center piece is a 20k gallon reef

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HeavyChicken
04/15/2016, 06:50 AM
I'm in Erie PA and would love to see this setup

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Project will be in edinboro. I'll be looking for help ;-)

zelie_dad
04/15/2016, 10:42 AM
Project will be in edinboro. I'll be looking for help ;-)

I'm not that far, and if this is real, I would love to help out.

Hentz
04/15/2016, 08:25 PM
I've got no sources or any information that will benefit you in any way, shape, or form.

But I will be on the sidelines watching this dream tank being built! Can't wait for your build thread sir. I'll be looking out for it. :beer:

PorkChop
04/18/2016, 02:21 PM
^^ What he said.

Can't even imagine this... if you pull it off I think it would one of the coolest things I might have ever seen.

tlc
04/18/2016, 08:15 PM
I would use super thick acrylic for a cold water tank.. it insulates better then glass and would help prevent inevitable fog build up on the outside viewing part of the tank. good luck with your project

Chicago
04/18/2016, 08:57 PM
ok tagging along on this one ....

outy
04/19/2016, 10:31 AM
These crabs are best dipped in butter after being steamed to perfection.


The cost to keep the water chilled for crabs, to me seems eccentric.

pfan151
04/19/2016, 11:18 AM
I'd just go with some that were intended for food. I honestly doubt there would be much of a difference in the health between those and some you bought that were intended for an aquarium. I'm sure it would be a much cheaper way too. Worth a shot at least.

Darth Vedder
04/19/2016, 05:59 PM
If this tank happens and there is not an old crab pot sitting on the sand with a northwestern buoy attached to it, the whole execution of this display will have failed

HeavyChicken
04/19/2016, 09:41 PM
If this tank happens and there is not an old crab pot sitting on the sand with a northwestern buoy attached to it, the whole execution of this display will have failed

Probably have to be a time bandit bouy

Halo_003
04/19/2016, 09:46 PM
Probably have to be a time bandit bouy

Not sure if you're serious but honestly a Deadliest Catch theme would be seriously cool.

jkc31
04/20/2016, 10:43 AM
Pretty sure your residents would need a commercial zoning permit. I think the the type of transformers used by the power company in the area your in will impact if it is even possible. Bring 3 phase power for one house could run in the millions. They'll laugh at you. But if it is available and you could get the permits you could run it with an energy management system and your power bills wouldn't be all that bad. Commercial Residents are charge peek rate per hour. Chiller like a hockey arena. Pumps from skyscrapers.

d-man
04/23/2016, 02:31 PM
When you are in the actual planning stages, you might want to get ahold of Bill wann. He's on FB. He built his home 20k gallon, and he builds excellent equipement. Pricey, but then again you are talking about something where price isn't an objection obviosly.

He could do your whole system. As he does do installs in other states and countries(Caymen islands)

AquaticEngineer
04/26/2016, 04:21 PM
If you are going that big you should talk to Koji Wada about getting Japanese spider crabs. Or check out http://www.izuchuo.co.jp/details6.html

If you are not being region specific, you could also look at the second largest crab in the world: the Tasmanian King Crab. Steve Mcleod of Oceanreef Aquaculture in Melbourne can get you these (also can get you Weedy Sea Dragons) https://www.facebook.com/steve.mcleod.372

If you want to keep it local to the US west coast (specifically more southern California) you should talk to Bob Burhans at Matsu Pacific Coast Specimens.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-burhans-05577574


Or get in touch with the guys at California Premier Aquatics, Danny Munoz and Chris Plante are both aquarist at the AoP and also run this business that supplies temperate specimens http://californiapremieraquatics.com/

I've imported temperate/coldwater livestock from Japan, Portugal, Australia, and I used to collect and sell it here in Oregon (no longer do though) So let me know if you need any other suggestions or help finding livestock :) I also have a couple contacts in Alaska ;)

Cheers and good luck!

AquaticEngineer
04/26/2016, 04:55 PM
Looks like Izu Chuo Aqua Trading Co had a couple juvenile Japanese Spider Crabs in stock on their last stock list.

slay
04/27/2016, 09:54 PM
Up here in Toronto many of the Asian supermarkets have live King Crab (if they can get to Toronto live, they should be able to get to PA). Perhaps you could look up and call any Asian supermarkets near you (if there are any)?

This is a picture from a T&T store (not my picture) showing how they sell them.

http://i.imgur.com/AKZwdxn.jpg

HeavyChicken
05/06/2016, 07:49 AM
Olive king crab in Toronto, pretty cool.

alex93se
05/06/2016, 08:02 AM
Up here in Toronto many of the Asian supermarkets have live King Crab (if they can get to Toronto live, they should be able to get to PA). Perhaps you could look up and call any Asian supermarkets near you (if there are any)?

This is a picture from a T&T store (not my picture) showing how they sell them.

http://i.imgur.com/AKZwdxn.jpg

Philadelphia Chinatown has had Live King Crabs periodically. Like slay said, call your nearest Asian supermarket, they might be able to get you some. BTW, the last ones I saw were much bigger than theses!

Dkuhlmann
05/09/2016, 04:23 AM
Sounds like a fun project.

Here is the build thread for Andrew's two tanks totaling 30,000 gallons. He lives in NY so you could get in touch with him and get some great pointers of setup and control systems. He pretty much did the same thing you are, building the house around a tank. :D

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2383251

Mark9
05/09/2016, 04:57 AM
A 75,000 gallon tank with Alaskan King crab, in your house.
To me, seems like a very odd project.

dread240
05/09/2016, 02:29 PM
A 75,000 gallon tank with Alaskan King crab, in your house.
To me, seems like a very odd project.

sounds like fresh dinner regularly imho... just get some live ones shipped in and keep 'em healthy till you're ready LOL

monkeyruler90
05/12/2016, 12:06 AM
wow, this is going to be amazing!

darmar7812
05/15/2016, 12:23 AM
I gotta see this! Following along

scuzy
05/15/2016, 12:29 AM
That's a bargain king crab is like 40-50 bucks a lb here in the bay area


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pickle311
05/17/2016, 02:28 PM
I think there's one major oversight in this plan, or it just could be the wording.

You're looking at 75k gallons spread through multiple tanks. Are you planning on doing all of these tanks cold water? You won't be able to have tanks connected together and maintain separate temperatures.

I know you didn't go into any real detail, so hopefully you had planned around this.

tlc
05/18/2016, 04:24 PM
this thread is not real...