Need Help

[EnergyRush]

Hi Everyone,

I know similar questions get asked all the time and I'm sorry to be asking such a basic topic. I do usually search the forums and get answers from that, but I'm out of answers and not sure what to do.

I'm in the process of getting a 75 gallon FOWLR set up. It has been up and running for 3 months. Two weeks ago I felt it was all the way through its cycle as all readings were coming back good and I added 2 clown fish and 1 dottyback. The tank also has about 10 snails, 15 hermits, 3 peppermint shrimp, and 2 cleaner shrimp. The clean up crew have been in the tank for about 6-8 weeks now.

Anyway, since I've added the 3 fish I cannot get control of my ammonia. It started right after I added the fish to be around 1ppm and stayed that way for about a week. I've been doing frequent water changes. Now the ammonia is only getting worse. It's reading anywhere from 4-8ppm. I've been adding Seachem Stability and Seachem Prime the last 4-5 days since I've been doing so many water changes. This morning I tested ammonia and it came back at 8ppm. So I did a 50% water change, then tested the ammonia again... still at 8ppm. I have tested the water that I am using and it is at 0ppm before going into the tank.

I do realize that Prime can give you false ammonia readings. I also have the Seachem Ammonia test kit that is supposed to be better when using Prime and the results are off the charts on that test kit too.

I'm at a loss. Today during the 50% WC...I also made sure to clean everything I could find that needed cleaning. I cleaned out my protein skimmer, filter media pads, cleaned all filter tubing, etc.

The strange thing is that all 3 fish and all clean up crew seem happy as clams. They swim all around the tank and are very active. They all eat great and look super healthy.

I am also very careful not to over feed the tank. I've been feeding a combination of frozen mysis/frozen brine and also a few flakes. I only put in what the fish can eat in a few minutes or what my cleanup crew can take care of. An hour after feeding I make sure to go back and make sure there is no left over food anywhere.

Another strange thing is that my Nitrite's and Nitrate's continue to test at 0ppm and have been ever since I have added the fish. If my ammonia is truly so high shouldn't I also be getting high nitrite's and nitrates?

What in the world is going on? I'm feeling like I'm out of options and not sure what to do.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[lpsouth1978]

What test kit are you using to test ammonia? It sounds like your test kit is giving you bad readings. Some of the more available kits (like API) are notoriously inaccurate. I would start by getting a different Ammonia test and see what it says. You can also take a water sample into most Local Fish stores and they will test it for you.

[EnergyRush]

I'm using 2 different test kits and both are roughly giving the same result.

1.) API Test Kit
2.) SeaChem Ammonia Test Kit

That is why I am wondering if it is the use of Prime that is doing this. SeaChem test both Free and Total Ammonia. Both Free and High coming back not good, Total Ammonia coming back off the scale high. It is purple and there isn't even a purple on the test strip really. Just dark blue is as high as it goes.

[lpsouth1978]

I'm using 2 different test kits and both are roughly giving the same result.

1.) API Test Kit
2.) SeaChem Ammonia Test Kit

That is why I am wondering if it is the use of Prime that is doing this. SeaChem test both Free and Total Ammonia. Both Free and High coming back not good, Total Ammonia coming back off the scale high. It is purple and there isn't even a purple on the test strip really. Just dark blue is as high as it goes.

In that case, I would not worry about testing for a while, stop using prime and stability, keep doing water changes, and re-test in a couple of weeks. Your shrimp will be the first to go if there is a problem with ammonia, so I don't think one actually exists. If the ammonia truly goes up you will see your tank inhabitants start to act differently, and you may lose a shrimp or two.

Alternately, you can do a LARGE water change to bring the ammonia down and remove as much Prime as possible, and re-test in a couple of days. In either case I would stop the use of Prime and Stability. They are just bandaids and are getting in the way of your success. Once the tank has truly completed a cycle, there should be little to NO reason to test ammonia. Nitrates will become the test of choice.

[GimpyFin]

From your description, it sounds like your tank never cycled. How did you cycle it? You should have seen ammonia and nitrite rise and then they should have zeroed out at some point and Nitrate should have risen. When that happens, you are generally through the cycle. (Seeing zeros across all 3 values consistently doesn't mean everything is good and it's ok to start adding stuff to the tank.)

[EnergyRush]

I cycled it by adding frozen mysis and brine to the tank. The ammonia did rise, then nitrites, then nitrates. All fell back to 0 by around 8 weeks of the tank being set up. All of my clean up crew were in there prior to this though. Nitrites were running about .5 at one point and Nitrates about 40-80ppm. Both are back to 0 at this time and have been for about 2 weeks.

Perhaps it didn't go through a large enough cycle? Not sure... just the 4-8ppm ammonia has me thrown off. That seems like it would be quite deadly to any tank inhabitants. This isn't my first SW tank...but is the first in about 10-15 years so I'm having to learn everything all over again.

[GimpyFin]

Yeah, you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia, only Nitrate potentially. I'm guessing you have a decent amount of rock/sand too for your bio filter?

[EnergyRush]

I probably have about 60lbs live rock and about 80-100lbs sand. I intended to get more live rock than what I have but I couldn't find any decent enough that I wanted to add to the tank.

[GimpyFin]

You should be fine with your sand/rock amount. One thing you could do is buy a small bottle of bio spira (Live bacteria) and add it to your tank. It works really well and will give your bio filter a boost to break down the ammonia. Just turn your skimmer of for a day or so after adding it.

[CStrickland]

I wouldn't stop adding prime, that is likely what is keeping the fish alive. It is not going to cause you to read 8 ppm ammonia if there is zero, but it will buffer that ammonia so that it doesn't kill the fish while the bacteria population catches up.

Similarly, while the API kits can be inaccurate, it isn't going to read 8 if the water is zero. The trouble with those is sometimes a phantom .25 pm reading. I do agree that bringing some water to a store for confirmation is a very good idea.

It sounds like your tank was cycled enough to handle the ammonia from the CUC, but not 3 fish. The bacteria need to catch up. As they do they will turn the nitrogen from ammonia, to nitrite, to nitrate. The second 2 will come up as the ammonia goes down.

Biospira is basically the same as stability, but I guess a different brand might help, or maybe you got a bad bottle of Stability.

Are you using rodi water? It might be worth testing a fresh mixed batch of salt water for ammonia too, next time you do a change. Be very careful to match temp and salinity with these big changes, I killed a chromis one time by getting lazy with that.

[EnergyRush]

Thanks CStrickland.

As far as saltwater, I am using the premixed water that you can buy at Petco. I have well water here and it is awful. I haven't attempted to use it in a fish tank yet as I don't even drink it myself, I certainly don't want to add it to a tank.

As far as adding freshwater, I have a ATO hooked up to the tank and the water I use for that is RO water that I buy at the store. I have tested both the Saltwater and RO water and none have ammonia.

My main goal is of course to keep my 3 fish alive. I've come quite attached to them and will do whatever it takes to keep them healthy.