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ThRoewer
04/21/2016, 02:00 AM
Finally found a pair of Doryrhamphus janssi.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=348598&stc=1&d=1461224549
(They are a bit hard to photograph with a phone as the autofocus doesn't work well on them)

Friday I got them for two weeks. For now they are in my algae QT.

They still have a good deal to grow, but I hope to breed them as soon as they start spawning. Though first I need to train them on Mysis. So far they only take tigger pods.

According to Kuiter (http://www.amazon.com/SEAHORSES-their-Relatives-Rudie-Kuiter/dp/0977537218) these pipefish are cleaner fish that preferably clean small fish like damsels or cardinals.

pfan151
04/24/2016, 12:45 AM
Those have been on my list for a long time. Never been able to find them. Nice looking pair. Good luck with the breeding.

ThRoewer
04/25/2016, 02:46 AM
One store around here has them once in a while. When they had them several months ago I didn't buy them since the female was fully grown while the male was just half her size. These two are both still young and still got to grow a good deal.

At that store I also found a pair of Doryrhamphus melanopleura - the Indonesian blue-stripe, but unfortunately those didn't make it trough QT.

I will practice the breeding with my African blue-stripe pipefish (Doryrhamphus excisus). The male of my first pair is always "pregnant", but it's tough to get him or the larva out of the reef tank they are in.
Luckily the second pair I got just 5 weeks ago from LiveAquaria also already started spawning. They also started feeding on frozen Mysis so they are hopefully in the clear. I plan to keep those separated so I can harvest the larva.

ThRoewer
05/24/2016, 03:43 AM
Yesterday, after 45 days peacefully together they started fighting each other like crazy.
At first I thought they may get ready to spawn, but they were actually picking at each other quite viciously. I had to catch one (the male) and put it into a breeder box.
They are for sure male and female and got along quite well so far, so I'm kind of surprised about this.
Both are by now eating frozen Mysis well.
I will keep them separated for a while and then try to pair them up again. If that doesn't work I may have to replace one of the two.

lifeoffaith
05/25/2016, 07:45 AM
Sorry to hear! Hope you have better luck when you put them together again.

ThRoewer
05/26/2016, 01:41 PM
I released the male and after only a few minutes the fighting started again. So I had to seperate them again - this time the slightly larger female ended up in in confinement.

A local store had another one in the same size range last Saturday. If they still have it this weekend I will get it and see if it gets along better with the matching mate of my current two.

lifeoffaith
05/26/2016, 02:40 PM
Did I see somewhere that you are hoping to start breeding these guys? How have you found pipes to do in reefs? I'm thinking about adding a pair to a reef I have planned in the near future as I hear they do ok in a reef. Have I heard right?

ThRoewer
05/26/2016, 04:00 PM
All the blue stripes I ever had did fine in reefs and handled high flow better than all the other fish. I would say most if not all Doryrhamphus species are well suited for reef tanks.

ThRoewer
05/26/2016, 11:46 PM
Here my second D. excisus pair during feeding while still in QT.
They are clearly not afraid off bigger and more agressive fish and quite capable to get their share of the food.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ito3H2esXDE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here a video clip of the D. janssi pair when they still got along:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2hVAICkD8-w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

j_mazzy
07/05/2016, 09:58 PM
Keep me in the loop as I'm looking for captive bred pipefish

fabjr
07/05/2016, 10:51 PM
Do you think these two squabbling fish would do better together in a much larger tank? If so, I might consider a pair
Also what temperature do you maintain their tank at?

ThRoewer
07/05/2016, 11:28 PM
I added another female and she and the old male get along well so far. The old female is in a breeder box for now. All eat frozen Mysis.

Temperature is between 25C and 30C - once acclimated these are much hardier than seahorses.

KrazieKiKi
07/13/2016, 09:26 AM
I added another female and she and the old male get along well so far. The old female is in a breeder box for now. All eat frozen Mysis.



Temperature is between 25C and 30C - once acclimated these are much hardier than seahorses.



How can you tell the sex of these?


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ThRoewer
07/17/2016, 04:09 AM
How can you tell the sex of these?

By the presence (male) or absence (female) of an egg pouch under the belly. It is a bit tricky to distinguish, but on the other hand easier than with many other pipefish since these prefer to swim belly up.
Easiest is to check if you can see one blue line on the belly (female) or two close to each other (male) - the two lines are the edges of the skin sheets that form the egg pouch.

KrazieKiKi
07/17/2016, 09:18 AM
By the presence (male) or absence (female) of an egg pouch under the belly. It is a bit tricky to distinguish, but on the other hand easier than with many other pipefish since these prefer to swim belly up.

Easiest is to check if you can see one blue line on the belly (female) or two close to each other (male) - the two lines are the edges of the skin sheets that form the egg pouch.




Thx for the info :)


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BlueCat1949
07/23/2016, 07:12 AM
My hats off to you ThRoewer for attempting to do something as difficult as breeding pipefish. After my five years of seahorse breeding I tried my hand at pipefish and although I had my chances at raising fry I did not have the proper food cultures for them.

Do you have pelagic pods on hand to feed the fry?

Good luck with this project.

ThRoewer
07/23/2016, 10:56 PM
Bluestripes have been bred with Brachionus and Artemia nauplia.

I have some other pods, but haven't yet figured out how to get them to multiply fast enough.

I also have some pods in my refugium that may work:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O8cT0xBQjRk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Again, so far I have no controlled culture method for them.

Beneficial with pipefish is the rather low larva count = less mouths to feed.

ThRoewer
08/04/2016, 12:51 AM
I moved the Janssi to my 20 gallon IM Nuovo Concept Abyss:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9RnpHhlR_mY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's only a temporary set up for now until I get to it to make a cemented backwall (and get rid of the tiny aptasia that are everywhere.)

saf1
08/11/2016, 08:18 PM
Pretty tank above. Nice pipe fish also and great work.

Wilrok_1
08/18/2016, 08:45 AM
Do pipefish lay eggs like clownfish or a sac like dottybacks ? Or live ?

BlueCat1949
08/18/2016, 07:14 PM
Do pipefish lay eggs like clownfish or a sac like dottybacks ? Or live ?

The male carries the eggs on his abdomen until they hatch.

Wilrok_1
08/19/2016, 07:52 AM
The male carries the eggs on his abdomen until they hatch.

I watched a YouTube video after posting to thread , thanks

ThRoewer
09/05/2016, 05:49 PM
The male and the new female stopped getting along as well. At first it wasn't much and they still stayed together, but today it went so far that the female left the overhang and went to lay on the sand.

I really don't know what it is with these guys and why they don't seem to get along long term.

ThRoewer
09/06/2016, 11:53 AM
After looking at my records it seems they are getting along for about 40 days before fighting starts. I'm not yet sure why.
Last time it seemed to be the female who started it, this time it's the male.

I did not experience this with the pair I had in the past.

pfan151
09/07/2016, 09:47 AM
That sucks. I was planning to get a pair but I might just go with a single to avoid these issues. I don't have extra tanks to put them in if the fighting starts like you are seeing. I hate having singles of any fish though.

Do you happen to know of a source for them? I have not had any luck finding them so far.

Rhygar666
09/07/2016, 10:50 AM
i got a pair of Janssi for more than a year now. Never had Problems eating frozen, dry flakes etc.
You can also See the Gender via the face the male Has Spikes on the upper side of his mouth the females dont.

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ThRoewer
09/07/2016, 11:10 AM
My female has spikes, but less than the male.
The male has a clearly distinguishable pouch that is not present on the female - it's easy to see on these guys because they almost always swim with their bellies up.
So I'm kind of sure that I got a male and a female, but I may have a closer look again...

Rhygar666
09/07/2016, 11:47 AM
I hope im allowed to upload a picture of a german internet site. not my picture but it got watermark. Helped me with the genderhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160907/009818b6d1769be5d4d98add6fa49bee.jpg
heres a link to the internet site [URL][http://www.kimmich.ch/syngnathidae.htm/URL]

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ThRoewer
09/08/2016, 05:04 AM
Originally I also thought that the spikes indicate males like with the Bluestripes, but at the store they had a bunch of them and all had spikes to some degree. Some were clearly males, but one looked like a female with no pouch.

The two also got along quite well for the time being... until a few days ago.

I will see that I catch the suspected female and have a closer look at its belly under the microscope.

If it turns out to be a male as well I will have to find two more females - as if it isn't hard enough to find these guys at all :headwally:

ThRoewer
09/17/2016, 04:45 AM
OK, I caught the one I originally though to be a female and now it had a clearly open belly pouch. It didn't have that when I got it so I suspect it was a young male where the pouch had not opened yet.

I moved that one to my 100 gallon tank - let's see how he gets along with the bluestripe male that's already in there for a while. There are enough caves and overhangs so I hope they get along.
When I tried to add one of my bluestripe pairs to the janssi it wasn't well received by the larger janssi male. So I had to take them out again.

ThRoewer
09/17/2016, 02:32 PM
Well, the little bluestripe male did have some objections, though I still hope they will find an arrangement and get along. The tank should be large enough for two species...

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ThRoewer
09/24/2016, 10:56 AM
The little bluestripe is near constantly harassing the janssi. He can't do really any damage, just make sure that the janssi doesn't get any peace and quiet time during the day.
The tank would easily be large enough for the both of them, but both seem to want the same coral branch to make their home... : headwally:

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electronaught
09/25/2016, 07:48 PM
Crimeny. Bummer that they are causing so much trouble.

I'm very interested in seeing how things go when you find a female to pair up with whichever male works out. :)

ThRoewer
09/25/2016, 11:46 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dQFOsxCR7ZE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ThRoewer
10/02/2016, 04:13 AM
Found a small female at the LFS today.
She came with a badly frayed tailfin and some ich so I have her for now in hyposalinity and antibiotic treatment with a pair of Dragon Faced pipefish and a Tiger Jawfish male that all came from the same system at the store.

ThRoewer
10/06/2016, 01:17 AM
Well, seems the little bluesripe has finally realized that it can't do much against the larger janssi. At least the last few days it didn't harass the janssi.

I have a female for the bluesripe that is almost through quarantine now, but I may wait adding her until the janssi female is ready to be added as well. That way the balance isn't tipped to one side.

ThRoewer
10/21/2016, 12:01 AM
Here how the one male in the 100 gallon reef tank is doing:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8uIANqWphkY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Originally I was afraid I would hardly see him, but he is actually almost always out.

ThRoewer
10/23/2016, 01:45 PM
I got a female 2 weeks ago, but that came with fin-rot and a chunk of skin fouled away on her back so that the bony plates are exposed. So no idea if she will make it.
Yesterday I found two little ones that have no spikes on their noses, but I think they may just be too small to be reliability sexed. One of those was hanging out with a larger male while the other one kept initially on its own but joined the other two. I took both of the small - let's see what becomes of them. With some luck they will turn out to be females. Otherwise I will need to find them a new home.

As for my established males - I noticed quite a difference in behavior:
The one that has basically his own tank is very reclusive and just hangs out under the rock shelf.
The one in the 100 gallon tank on the other hand is out and swimming around all day long.
Based on this I would say that they do better in a reef tank with other fish than in a species tank.

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ostrow
01/03/2017, 01:13 PM
Say I read that PE MYSIS may be too big. Which brand do you use?

ThRoewer
01/03/2017, 02:26 PM
Hikari, the large plates. Though mysis in the last batch I bought were a bit on the large side as well.
But it seems that the janssi have no real problem to suck them down either, not even my smallest. The bluestripe pipefish also don't mind the somewhat larger size. The fish that really don't like this batch are my Sumatra Regal Angels and my Australian Starcki damsel - those three prefer pellets and flakes.

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ostrow
01/03/2017, 02:57 PM
Thanks. The package calls them 'Jumbo'! If I'm looking at the right ones (DFS 16oz flat pack).

ostrow
03/05/2017, 11:47 AM
Finally have a lead on a pair.

What is best method for acclimating and transferring these guys?

Long slow drip?

Several hours?

I presume nets are tabboo?

ThRoewer
03/05/2017, 01:05 PM
Nets are OK as long as you are careful.

I usually do drip acclimatization, but if salinity, pH and temperature match you may as well just drop them in.
I always give them a Formalin bath before they go into the QT.

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ostrow
03/08/2017, 06:05 PM
Well I got two. No way can I tell if they are a pair but they hang together. One is much larger than the other. They like each other and nobody bothering them.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=3964&pictureid=77505

ostrow
03/09/2017, 09:00 AM
It won't let me edit. Not sure what happened. Here we try again!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=3964&pictureid=77509

But, sadly, the larger one is AWOL this morning. Smaller one actually ate some mysis!

ThRoewer
03/09/2017, 12:30 PM
Where did you get them from?
As for the hiding, they are extremely good at that. These guys can make themselves nearly invisible even in an empty tank.
If they stop being together it may be an indicator that you got 2 of the same sex.
I've had males getting along as long as one of them was still immature (pouch hasn't opened yet), but the moment both were mature they started fighting which usually leads to the smaller one going into hiding.

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ostrow
03/09/2017, 12:46 PM
Jeremy Brower got em for me (Modern Aquatix) I am not sure the wholesaler but I think SDC. I expected the little guy to be more skittish but nope.

Your guy is still looking for me, if one or both of these don't make it I will hit him up when he gets back to me. Great guy for sure.

ostrow
03/10/2017, 03:41 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr4xdhsnre58rti/File%20Mar%2010%2C%204%2031%2039%20PM.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzt8xlpb4xbiatr/File%20Mar%2010%2C%204%2034%2048%20PM.mov?dl=0

Sorry about the second half of the longer one. Both have eaten pods and mysis (as far as I can tell).

Bratyboy2
04/07/2017, 12:22 PM
Any updates?

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ThRoewer
04/07/2017, 03:01 PM
One thing I can tell so far is that these guys are relatively slow growing. Neither of my 3 has added significant length during the time I have them and none of them is by any means fully grown. The first male is now close to a year with me and in a 20 gallon tank. The small female is in there too, but despite fighting down large mysis it hasn't grown significantly.
The single male I have in my 100 gallon reef tank is the one I would have expected to grow fastest, but there isn't much either.
All my bluestripe pipefish were pretty much fully grown after a year.
If this slow growth is normal and not caused by some stunning factor then it is likely that these guys live longer than the 3 years you normally get out of bluestripe pipefish.

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ostrow
04/07/2017, 04:40 PM
Mine are thriving. They are funny. They trade sides of the tank at night but hang out together before switching. Both eat mysis like crazy. I fear same gender but will never really know. They chase each other at times (well one circles the other). But the smaller one seems the tougher of the two.

By far, and it isn't close, my favorite fish I havr ever had and that says something.

Ulendon
04/12/2017, 01:06 PM
Could you let me know which store was able to get these for you? I'm in the bay area also and I have been looking for a pair forever!

ostrow
04/12/2017, 03:47 PM
I hope ThRoewer doesn't mind....he highly recommended Aquatic Collection in Hayward (I think). The guy was really nice but didn't get two for me in time.

ostrow
04/12/2017, 03:57 PM
The pair I got was from a shop that ordered from SDC. Surprisingly. I hadn't had much luck with that source but these guys are gorgeous!

I did a fast drip to temp acclimate. Salinity and pH were already fine. 40 min and in the tank

ThRoewer
04/13/2017, 08:27 PM
I think my pair spawned. Since the female is still a baby it's less than 10 eggs, and they seem to be much smaller than those of bluestripe pipefish.

Bratyboy2
04/14/2017, 06:10 AM
Awesome regardless. This should start putting them in a routine!

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reefwiser
04/14/2017, 06:27 AM
That is great.:)

Bratyboy2
04/18/2017, 05:27 AM
Just got notification that liveaquaria has them in

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ThRoewer
04/21/2017, 01:07 PM
I ordered 2 from LA and they just arrived. They are just the right size. Haven't checked the sex yet. Hopefully at least one of them is a female.

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ostrow
04/21/2017, 02:37 PM
I ordered 2 from LA and they just arrived. They are just the right size. Haven't checked the sex yet. Hopefully at least one of them is a female.

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Man wish you were in Chicago and could determine the genders of my two!

ThRoewer
04/21/2017, 03:15 PM
Both I got are females - score! :bounce3:

Man wish you were in Chicago and could determine the genders of my two!

Take close-up shots of their snout profile and their bellies and post the pictures here.

ostrow
04/21/2017, 05:09 PM
I dont see how I will do better than the one on the previous page. Will try tho

ThRoewer
04/21/2017, 05:55 PM
This picture is actually pretty good to tell you what to look for:

I hope im allowed to upload a picture of a german internet site. not my picture but it got watermark. Helped me with the gender
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160907/009818b6d1769be5d4d98add6fa49bee.jpg
heres a link to the internet site http://www.kimmich.ch/syngnathidae.htm

Only the males have spikes on the top of their snout. Females have a smooth snout.
On adults you should also be able to see the pouch on males (quite easy since they usually swim belly up). Females have a smooth belly and usually no blue stripe running down the center of the belly which markes the separation line of the pouch on males.

ostrow
04/21/2017, 06:24 PM
Yeah yeah I know all that. I dont see any of that on either. So small so slim so fast!!!

ThRoewer
04/22/2017, 02:32 PM
One of the new females is already eating frozen mysis. Unfortunately it is also chasing the other female so I will have to separate them later today.

The pair I have in the 20 gallon tank is definitely spawning now. Unfortunately the eggs are rather small, probably half the diameter of a bluestripe egg. This means smaller larva and more difficulty in raising them.

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ThRoewer
04/23/2017, 10:26 AM
Well, I got lucky and found another male at the local store (AC, they still have a small female). So if none dies during quarantine I will have 3 pairs.

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ThRoewer
04/27/2017, 01:29 PM
New male didn't make it. Also, upon closer examination at least one of the females has very fine teeth on the back of the snout. It's not as pronounced as on my males, but the back of the snout it also not smooth. But there is no pouch on its belly, so I'm still confident that it's a female.

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ostrow
08/02/2017, 01:05 PM
My larger one has disappeared. The smaller was clearly dominant. Still can't figure out the gender. Want to try to pair it. Hate playing roulette but my eyes just can't make anything out. To me, snouts appeared smooth but both had the blue stripe...

ThRoewer
08/04/2017, 08:30 PM
Sexing these reliably may be one issue, pairing them up is for sure another. I added a well quarantined female to the male in my 100 gallon tank and she was never seen again...

I also noticed that the specimen in the trade seem to be predominantly males.

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ostrow
08/04/2017, 08:42 PM
Oh. Damn. Not good news there

ThRoewer
09/16/2017, 02:30 PM
Well, the one pair I have is spawning again, but the female is still too small to produce a full clutch - at the moment she produces at the most 20 eggs. Once the clutch sizes get larger I might give it a shot to raise them. Though the eggs are small, about half the size of those of bluestripes.

ostrow
09/16/2017, 03:10 PM
Dibs on some offspring!!!