PDA

View Full Version : Starting with component +1,+2,+3 and need advice


flananuts
04/22/2016, 07:00 PM
My tank is about 4 months old, a reefer 170 with TB saltwater live rock, two rock nem's, a torch, favia and brain frags, a Cali tort frag, a Kenya tree, and some softies including some Ricordia and shrooms. So far my calcium and magnesium are 430 and 1200 after a water change using Red Sea pro. My nitrate is 0 via salifert and ..002-006 phosphate via Hanna. Alk is getting consumed and is around 8.2 from 9.8 after a week via Hanna. I have been using baking soda to raise alk but my GHL 2 doser is finally installed and I have the aqua forest products already. At roughly 40 gallons I am even having a hard time justifying the 50 ml per day of all 3 components. I will be adding more SPS and LPS to the tank which is why I've set up the doser and will modify for depletion.

My question is would it be alright to start with as little as 5ml each throughout the day and monitor the changes? Or is that too low?

Thanks for your time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flananuts
04/23/2016, 03:50 PM
Bump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
04/24/2016, 09:04 AM
Using the instructions on the Components jugs it says that 50 mL per 27 US gallons raises alkalinity 1.3 dKH.

So you need to know your daily consumption in order to figure out how much to dose. It doesn't sound like you have very many corals yet, nor are they huge consumers, so I doubt you're using more than 0.25-0.5 dKH per day, probably less? The way to figure it out is to test at a certain time of day, don't add anything all day (don't add calcium or magnesium or anything else), and then test again at the same time of day the next day. The difference is the amount your tank is using daily.

You also need to know the NET water volume, which you should know anyway as you'll use this number for many calculations. The net volume is the gross volume minus displacement of rock, sand, glass thickness, etc. There are lots of calculators online to guesstimate what the net volume is by using the rock weight and sand weight. Make sure you actually measure your tank with it NOT running, the inside dimensions of the glass, and actual height of the water. If you do this as accurately as possibly once, then you'll never need to do it again, and it will make future dosing calculations much easier. I planned for this when I set up my tank, so I added water to the tank, marked the tank, then added the rock and sand and measured the difference in the water height which gave me the volume of the rock and sand. I know my volume to within about 1 gallon, and it is pretty handy. Something to think about in the future...

Once you have those two numbers then you can figure out a good starting dose.

For example, if your tank is 40 gallons NET, then 40 gals / 27 gals (on the jugs) = 1.48
50 mL (on the jugs) x 1.48 = 74 mL
So 74 mL will raise 40 gallons of saltwater by 1.3 dKH.

If the consumption of the tank is 0.25 dKH, then 1.3 / 0.25 = 5.2
74 mL / 5.2 = 14.2 mL

So your theoretical 5 mL dose will raise alkalinity by approximately 1/3 of 0.25 dKH provided your tank is 40 gallons net, which is about 0.08 dKH or pretty much nothing. :D

flananuts
04/25/2016, 04:15 PM
Thanks. The only thing I'm sure it is consuming is dKH, I'm also trying to raise alkalinity in the tank overall higher. I am testing now daily using Hanna and I plan to stock more SPS and LPS. In two days it has gone from 8.1 to 9.6 and I'm targeting the high end of the spectrum. My water quality is good, low nutrients, but I want to be able to reintroduce the other trace elements that are being depleted. I'm going to work on measuring the net volume. FWIW I set up 10 ml dose 5X daily to start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
04/26/2016, 07:36 AM
Thanks. The only thing I'm sure it is consuming is dKH, I'm also trying to raise alkalinity in the tank overall higher. I am testing now daily using Hanna and I plan to stock more SPS and LPS. In two days it has gone from 8.1 to 9.6 and I'm targeting the high end of the spectrum. My water quality is good, low nutrients, but I want to be able to reintroduce the other trace elements that are being depleted. I'm going to work on measuring the net volume. FWIW I set up 10 ml dose 5X daily to start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1.5 dKH increase in one day is enough to cause RTN and/or burned tips in SPS - especially if N and P are very low.
I'd be more careful if I were you. I think your dose of 50 mL per day is quite a bit too much.

flananuts
04/26/2016, 04:29 PM
I'm going to work on it this weekend. I shut off my doser until I can line it up. My corals aren't removing a lot of calcium but all is definitely dropping. I use a Hanna checker and it went from 170 to 140 which 8 in just a few days.

I was only dosing 10ml per day of all three spaced out across 5 periods. I'm not dosing 50ml a day

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
04/28/2016, 09:11 PM
I'm going to work on it this weekend. I shut off my doser until I can line it up. My corals aren't removing a lot of calcium but all is definitely dropping. I use a Hanna checker and it went from 170 to 140 which 8 in just a few days.

I was only dosing 10ml per day of all three spaced out across 5 periods. I'm not dosing 50ml a day

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh I thought you meant 10 mL 5 times per day for total of 50 mL per day of each. I'd be testing and adjusting daily if I were you.

flananuts
04/29/2016, 04:23 AM
I am and thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
05/05/2016, 06:55 AM
So it's been awhile now, what volume has turned out to be working for you?

Fwiw, I did the math above for my own tank when I switched from Tropic Marin Balling to AF. I found out my tank was using about 0.3 dKH per day, and using the math above for my tank volume it resulted in 30 mL per day. I went ahead and set up my doser for 30 mL per day of each component, and it was bang on. It was a pretty simple switch over. :fish1:

flananuts
05/07/2016, 08:02 AM
I'm dosing 4 ml 5x (20 ml)throughout the day. DKH is maintaining at 8.4 ca 420 and mag right in line as well. I just added two more SPS frags and monitpora and everything is growing. I'm testing alk 3x a week and Ca in the weekend. As the tank requirements increase demand I will up the dosage. My phosphate and nitrates are undetectable so I'm able to do less frequent water changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plyle02
05/09/2016, 08:28 AM
I'm dosing 4 ml 5x (20 ml)throughout the day. DKH is maintaining at 8.4 ca 420 and mag right in line as well. I just added two more SPS frags and monitpora and everything is growing. I'm testing alk 3x a week and Ca in the weekend. As the tank requirements increase demand I will up the dosage. My phosphate and nitrates are undetectable so I'm able to do less frequent water changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe bring allow the alk to come down 1 full point in value. 7.5dkh would be perfect.

flananuts
05/09/2016, 05:27 PM
I will try but I'm concerned my other numbers will be lower than optimal. I have mostly LPS and now some sps frags. What should my calcium be when my alk is 7.5?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
05/09/2016, 10:14 PM
Honestly, for LPS I like to keep alkalinity a bit higher 8-8.25 dKH as I've found if you get in the 7's LPS are more prone to Brown Jelly Disease, and especially if alkalinity manages to drop below 7.0. So I like to keep more of a buffer into the "safe" zone and stay just a bit over 8.0 dKH.

flananuts
05/10/2016, 04:46 AM
I adjusted my dosing me to be more frequent throughout the day and have reduced total dosing from 20ml day to 17. I'll test to see where it levels off, shooting to be right at 8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plyle02
05/10/2016, 04:52 AM
I will try but I'm concerned my other numbers will be lower than optimal. I have mostly LPS and now some sps frags. What should my calcium be when my alk is 7.5?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

around 400-410 assuming mag is above 1280ppm. I have had alk as low as 5.4 with no problems whatsoever. At 8.0 you are a tad high for ULNS. I like to be anywhere from 6.8-7.2dkh.

flananuts
05/10/2016, 04:55 AM
Thanks for the note. I'll continue to monitor. Fwiw I only use component 1,2,3. I'm not using the pro biotic salt but I would say my nutrient levels are super low or undetectable with Hanna checker for phosphate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plyle02
05/10/2016, 06:18 AM
Yes,
I say this only due to you having zero nitrates and phosphates, I feel more comfortable below 8.0dkh. Are you dosing any other AF products?

Myka
05/10/2016, 07:38 AM
Yes,
I say this only due to you having zero nitrates and phosphates, I feel more comfortable below 8.0dkh. Are you dosing any other AF products?

Sorry to be on the other side of the fence Perry, but I'd have to disagree with your statement when discussing any corals except SPS. For SPS I agree wholeheartedly! For SPS you can often get STN or burned tips if alkalinity is over 8 dKH when you have super low nutrients. For LPS and softies, but particularly LPS, I can predictably trigger Brown Jelly Disease in mature tanks by dropping alkalinity below 7 dKH. I maintain aquariums for a living, and I've seen this happen on numerous occasions, most recently 3 weeks ago. Ime, LPS do better with medium nutrients than low nutrients anyway, say NO3 2-10 ppm and PO4 0.08-0.15 ppm which also mitigates any potential concern about the higher alkalinity. LPS get finicky when nutrients are really low. This is one of the main reasons why maintaining a thriving mixed reef is very difficult or at least if the LPS are doing well the SPS fanatics will say the SPS are "meh". I could think of many examples myself where what I'm saying has proven untrue, but then I can also predictably trigger the Brown Jelly and I'm not just talking about my own tank or my last few tanks, I'm talking about dozens of tanks, so there is merit to it.

Having said that, I have a few LPS in my SPS tank and I'm running NSW levels, though I have to watch them very closely. With low nutrients, LPS get more sensitive to light - mine are literally hiding in the shade under rock ledges, and I'm only running my T5s at 50% dimming. I bought a gold Torch Coral recently which I know is one of the most sensitive species to lower alkalinity, and it has scared me a few times already in the few weeks it's been in my tank. I hope it survives, but I'm not holding a lot of hope.

plyle02
05/10/2016, 08:50 AM
Sorry to be on the other side of the fence Perry, but I'd have to disagree with your statement when discussing any corals except SPS. For SPS I agree wholeheartedly! For SPS you can often get STN or burned tips if alkalinity is over 8 dKH when you have super low nutrients. For LPS and softies, but particularly LPS, I can predictably trigger Brown Jelly Disease in mature tanks by dropping alkalinity below 7 dKH. I maintain aquariums for a living, and I've seen this happen on numerous occasions, most recently 3 weeks ago. Ime, LPS do better with medium nutrients than low nutrients anyway, say NO3 2-10 ppm and PO4 0.08-0.15 ppm which also mitigates any potential concern about the higher alkalinity. LPS get finicky when nutrients are really low. This is one of the main reasons why maintaining a thriving mixed reef is very difficult or at least if the LPS are doing well the SPS fanatics will say the SPS are "meh". I could think of many examples myself where what I'm saying has proven untrue, but then I can also predictably trigger the Brown Jelly and I'm not just talking about my own tank or my last few tanks, I'm talking about dozens of tanks, so there is merit to it.

Having said that, I have a few LPS in my SPS tank and I'm running NSW levels, though I have to watch them very closely. With low nutrients, LPS get more sensitive to light - mine are literally hiding in the shade under rock ledges, and I'm only running my T5s at 50% dimming. I bought a gold Torch Coral recently which I know is one of the most sensitive species to lower alkalinity, and it has scared me a few times already in the few weeks it's been in my tank. I hope it survives, but I'm not holding a lot of hope.

Oh yeah, no I agree, I thought I saw he had sps, in which case I prefer it lower. I agree that the LPS and softies both would prefer a bit of nutrients, and that usually allows for higher alk too. I have a few lps in my tank too, my indo orange torch shrivels in my high flow, high light, and low nutrient tank, lol... Good eye Mindy!

flananuts
05/10/2016, 04:26 PM
Well I've got both SPS and LPS frags in tank and soft corals as well, plus two flower nem's. My LPS brain is growing and so far it looks like my Cali tort and Acro frags are alive. I don't dose anything else other than periodic LRS reef frenzy for inhabitants and reef chili. I need to thin out my cheato which will hopefully help. There is some algae growth in my vortech power heads so I know I'm not fully devoid. Appreciate the help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flananuts
05/10/2016, 05:58 PM
And I have one open pump head, should I be dosing one more thing (muahahahahahaha)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myka
05/10/2016, 07:43 PM
Oh yeah, no I agree, I thought I saw he had sps, in which case I prefer it lower. I agree that the LPS and softies both would prefer a bit of nutrients, and that usually allows for higher alk too. I have a few lps in my tank too, my indo orange torch shrivels in my high flow, high light, and low nutrient tank, lol... Good eye Mindy!

Oh good. I feel better about disagreeing with you now. :beer:

rs1831
05/16/2016, 05:33 PM
Quick question, should the components be added over a 24 hour period or certain times of the day?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plyle02
05/16/2016, 05:42 PM
I dose over a 24 hour period. I program in how many ml, it breaks it up into 24 hourly parts. Cheers

rs1831
05/16/2016, 06:50 PM
I dose over a 24 hour period. I program in how many ml, it breaks it up into 24 hourly parts. Cheers

Thank you!

plyle02
05/17/2016, 04:55 AM
You are welcome Roland :)