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alexkharden
04/28/2016, 02:04 PM
Hello everyone. Maybe this has been answered, maybe not. In general it concerns filter floss in quarantine. I've had some little clowns in quarantine and I've had filter floss in the HOB to maintain a bio filter and keep ammonia in check. They have seemed healthy and so I haven't used any medications of any kind. Yesterday I received 3 fish from an online vendor, and two of them are in pretty bad shape. I actually have two qt tanks, so I put the two carnivores in one qt, and I added the wrasse to the qt with the clowns in it.

I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. Two Extreme Picasso Clowns in quarantine already. 20g tank. One larger HOB filter with filter floss in it. One small powerhead. One 75W heater. A 2" piece of 45 degree PVC elbow.

Other qt has been fallow until yesterday. Pretty much identical setup as the first qt.

The three first I received yesterday were a Marine Betta, a Sargassum Angler, and a Blue Sided Fairy Wrasse.

I put the Betta and the Angler in the fallow tank, separated by eggcrate. I put the Wrasse in the tank with the clowns. I attempted to separate the clowns from the wrasse with eggcrate, but all of the fish are too small for that to work, lol.

The angler appears in perfect health. It's already eaten feeder shrimp and fish live, and feeder shrimp from a feeding stick.

The wrasse is cowering in the bottom corner of the qt, and won't move unless I prompt it to move somehow.

The Betta is doing even worse. It's basically staying in a head down vertical position. It's fins are pulled in, it has a string of white lumpy poo stuck to it's anus, and it has a section along one flank where it's missing scales.

I think most of the problem is ammonia poisoning. The fish were delivered 32 hours late (damn you fedex) and so obviously were in transit a lot longer than they should've been. I drip acclimated them over 2 hours, with methylene blue and stress coat in the water.

Anyway, because of the poo, the fins, and the scales, I'm concerned about internal and external parasites. I just placed a large order for a medicine cabinet stockpile, but it hasn't arrived yet, so I ran to the store and picked up some API General Cure. I dosed both tanks. Am I able to run filter floss in those HOB's, or do i need to remove it and use Prime/WC's to control ammonia?

Also, does my interim diagnosis of the fish seem relatively accurate?

thank you!

Deinonych
04/29/2016, 10:25 AM
Drip acclimation is not recommended for livestock purchased online. Best to match the QT salinity to that of the transport bag, temperature acclimate and place the fish in QT. Bag should be exposed to air no more than 30 minutes. It's very possible that the rapid shift in pH (as subsequent increase in ammonia) during the acclimation period did irreversible damage to the fish, but only time will tell.

In any case, I would give the fish several days to recover before subjecting them to medications. Keep your water parameters under control (especially ammonia). You should be able to use filter floss for both tanks, although I prefer using ceramic rings or substrate (like Seachem Matrix) in a media bag as it provides more surface area for the bacteria to colonize. You may want to augment the biofilter with a product like Bio-spira or Seachem Stability.

snorvich
04/29/2016, 10:57 AM
Drip acclimation is not recommended for livestock purchased online. Best to match the QT salinity to that of the transport bag, temperature acclimate and place the fish in QT. Bag should be exposed to air no more than 30 minutes. You may want to augment the biofilter with a product like Bio-spira or Seachem Stability.

This.

alexkharden
04/29/2016, 11:31 AM
This makes me a little angry. As I was drip acclimating my fish, I had a conversation about this exactly with my wife. Raising ph increasing ammonia toxicity. I followed the suppliers recommendation exactly though, because I didn't want to ruin my chance of replacement in event of death.

As it stands, the angler appears perfectly healthy and gorged itself yesterday, so eating and thriving don't appear to be an issue.

The Wrasse still hasn't eaten, but is becoming slightly more alert and active, and is starting to move around on its own without prompting from me.

The Betta has degraded. It is lying on its side on the bottom of the tank and its gills are barely moving. I honestly don't expect it to live until morning, but I'm holding out hope.

alexkharden
04/29/2016, 11:34 AM
"It is very important to provide oxygen as quickly as possible, so please have an air pump and air stone at the ready. When you receive your fish, do not float the bags! Instead, pour the shipping water into your acclimation bucket, put the Stress Guard in right away and put the air pump and stone in immediately. Then begin your drip as normal."

This from the supplier in an email when it was discovered the fish were going to be late. This is what prompted the conversation with my wife, because I knew drip acclimating would already cause the ph to raise slowly, whereas the increased oxygen would cause the ph to shoot up. I did it all though, step by step, because that's what the instructions said to do. I feel like the instructions were wrong though.

Deinonych
04/29/2016, 02:52 PM
Yes, it seems that many online suppliers still recommend the "old way" of acclimating newly acquired fish. It's unfortunate. That said, I've never lost a fish using the method outlined above. Hopefully your fish recover - it sounds like the wrasse and angler are doing better. Wrasses are drama queens IME - especially Cirrhilabrus sp. Don't be surprised if it takes several days for it to be out and about. I would feed on a regular schedule and not try to force the situation. My Exquisite Wrasse didn't come out into the open for more than a week. Now, he's the the most active fish in the tank.

alexkharden
04/29/2016, 03:14 PM
Yes, it seems that many online suppliers still recommend the "old way" of acclimating newly acquired fish. It's unfortunate. That said, I've never lost a fish using the method outlined above. Hopefully your fish recover - it sounds like the wrasse and angler are doing better. Wrasses are drama queens IME - especially Cirrhilabrus sp. Don't be surprised if it takes several days for it to be out and about. I would feed on a regular schedule and not try to force the situation. My Exquisite Wrasse didn't come out into the open for more than a week. Now, he's the the most active fish in the tank.
Well, I'm definitely done with the old way. Your way makes perfect sense and is now my way, lol. How do you match up the salinity? Keep the qt sg low, measure the shipping bag, then bump it up quickly to match before adding fish? Or keep it higher, then dilute it to match the shipping bag sg?

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