MarinePure Warning

[EpicWin]

Hey everyone. I am writing to share my experience with MarinePure ("MP"). I realize that many of you will have had a different experience and I certainly respect that. First some background.

A month or so ago, I had a rocking frag tank, full PE all day and decent color. I have noticed that the tanks with the most color also have the most biological filtration. Thus, I decided to order a bunch of Pukani rock from BRS. Right before I did however, a friend pointed me in the direction of MP. After reading a lot of reviews, and fully acknowledging the Aluminum issue, I decided to order a bunch of it.

I received the MP but was very busy so it sat dry for a few weeks in my fish closet. Finally I had time to introduce it into my tank, but I didn't have time to do the usual water change and carbon change along with it. This turned out to be a good thing in that it eliminated variables.

Here is where this is partially my fault. I barely rinsed the MP before putting it into my tank. I had no idea that the word "Ceramic" refers more to a process than a material (don't believe me, look it up). I figured how bad could a little bit of clay dust be, considering I rarely rinsed dry rock before introduction. I placed the MP in a chamber of my sump where all flow had to go through it.

Within 2 hours of introduction of MP my SPS had all retracted polyps. The water was not cloudy. I did not think much of this and figured in a few days things would be back to normal. Lets just say a few days later nothing had PE or color. I decided at this point to do a large water change and remove the MP. I was positive it was the MP causing the issue because I had not changed anything in the tank other than adding the MP (remember the bit above about eliminating variables). I performed about a 30% water change and figured things would get better.

A couple of days later I began to see the first STN. Terrified, I performed another 50% water change and Changed the carbon. This had no effect. A few days after this I put PolyFIlter into the tank hoping it would eliminate any aluminum the MP had introduced. Again no effect.

So here we are 2 weeks later and MP has given me the privilege of watching all of my SPS slowly STN. I lose a few colonies each day. What is really strange is that I have confirmed that the tank water is fine. I did this by introducing a frag of the same type of coral I had when the MP was introduced, after the MP was introduced. The frag that was there when the MP was introduced died today while the frag introduced after the water changes etc has full PE and looks good. I also tried saving a few of my colonies by placing them in another tank that has never seen MP. They all died. It is like whatever MP released doomed the SPS immediately and nothing can be done to save them.

So in closing I want to reiterate again that I did not follow MP direction as well as I should have and RINSE thoroughly. That said, I wouldn't want something in my tank that if not rinsed properly is a ticking time bomb. Additionally, I am a biologist and am well versed in the scientific method. I would not call out a product like this if I was not nearly 100% sure. I actually have gone back and forth on whether to write this review, but I decided to proceed in hopes I save someones tank. I know many people have used this product with success, My experience was quite different.

[ReefCowboy]

Im by no means taking away credit from your experience, maybe you had issues with your product, hard to tell. I have a 57gal with three 8x8x4 blocks, two boxes of spheres which i didnt pre rinse. There was very little dust suspended when introduced, I remember throwing the spheres one by one in the sump straight from the box... I have a full sps tank runing for 2 years now.. In confused with your problem, wondering if your media was somehow contaminated?

[crocogator106]

Just curious but where did you purchase the MP? I have read where there are counterfeits out there especially ebay and amazon.

[EpicWin]

I got mine from BRS. The way the SPS immediately reacted to it, it would not surprise me if it were contaminated.

[Skim]

Well that is interesting, I have be using it for a while know. I got it first for my Freshwater tank, replace biomaterial in my Eheim and it work great, so after reading some post on here I decided to try some in my sump so I put about 20 spheres in the space from first chamber to second and then picked up a Block a few months ago and it's in my first chamber and all seemed well, but the other day I was looking a the Spheres and a bunch have started to crumble. I grab one and squished it hard between my fingers and it broke and I had wet dust and small pieces and rubbed my finger together and it turned into like a paste.
Know after seeing your post it makes me wonder because I have had some strange things happening in the tank that has me stumped, the have lost 5 to 6 frags to STN slow but consistent. I have even changed salt recently because I noticed I was getting high Alk. 12 and 13 my tank should be covered in Coraline and the Corals should be exploding. So I just picked up some Salinity and have done 2 water changes and I noticed polyps would start to come out, only to retract after about 6 hours. Well I think I will try and remove the MP and see what happens because I know when I added the Spheres how high they were in the space and now it has dropped 1/2" to 3/4" , can always put it back in.

[moatdaddy]

Mine reduced too many nitrates. In my 20 years of reef keeping i rarely experience a time when a 50% water change made things better. SPS while tolerant of physical abuse are wimps to chemical changes. No where in this write did i see your parameters. Now you added a few things to the tank within a month, also a flag, not a red one but a warning.

Have you tested you No4. I ask because Pukani rock is notorious for leaching it. You very well could of had your nitrates drop to zero and your phosphates skyrocket. When nitrates go to 0, less phosphate is absorbed from bacteria, at least that what the science people say and i have experienced. Then you went and did large water changes, which from my experience always make alkalinity fluctuate. Alkalinity swings is the bane of sps besides pests imo. why i test daily for it, sometimes twice a day.

So as someone who has marine pure, with 40 plus colonies and 50 plus sps frags, who also did rinse his, i think there may have been other things at play. From experience, water test, before and after adding anything, and when adding things space it out. I am sorry your corals are dying but my first guess is its not your marine pure. I would hazard it was a spike in phosphates then a swing in alkalinity, which both will cause stn. If it was truely some chemical from the marinepure they couldn't handle, believe me, they would Rapid TN, and say f this.

[EpicWin]

Well that is interesting, I have be using it for a while know. I got it first for my Freshwater tank, replace biomaterial in my Eheim and it work great, so after reading some post on here I decided to try some in my sump so I put about 20 spheres in the space from first chamber to second and then picked up a Block a few months ago and it's in my first chamber and all seemed well, but the other day I was looking a the Spheres and a bunch have started to crumble. I grab one and squished it hard between my fingers and it broke and I had wet dust and small pieces and rubbed my finger together and it turned into like a paste.
Know after seeing your post it makes me wonder because I have had some strange things happening in the tank that has me stumped, the have lost 5 to 6 frags to STN slow but consistent. I have even changed salt recently because I noticed I was getting high Alk. 12 and 13 my tank should be covered in Coraline and the Corals should be exploding. So I just picked up some Salinity and have done 2 water changes and I noticed polyps would start to come out, only to retract after about 6 hours. Well I think I will try and remove the MP and see what happens because I know when I added the Spheres how high they were in the space and now it has dropped 1/2" to 3/4" , can always put it back in.

I think you absolutely should take out the MP. What you describe is basically the state of my SPS. The ones that are alive will put polyps out for 10 minutes and then retract them so far in I cant see them at all. Further, ones that do put polyps out are just as likely to start STN.... Just know that MP has been out of my system for almost 3 weeks and nothing is improving.... I know the water is fine because frags introduced after the MP was taken out and the huge water changes do fine....

[EpicWin]

Mine reduced too many nitrates. In my 20 years of reef keeping i rarely experience a time when a 50% water change made things better. SPS while tolerant of physical abuse are wimps to chemical changes. No where in this write did i see your parameters. Now you added a few things to the tank within a month, also a flag, not a red one but a warning.

Have you tested you No4. I ask because Pukani rock is notorious for leaching it. You very well could of had your nitrates drop to zero and your phosphates skyrocket. When nitrates go to 0, less phosphate is absorbed from bacteria, at least that what the science people say and i have experienced. Then you went and did large water changes, which from my experience always make alkalinity fluctuate. Alkalinity swings is the bane of sps besides pests imo. why i test daily for it, sometimes twice a day.

So as someone who has marine pure, with 40 plus colonies and 50 plus sps frags, who also did rinse his, i think there may have been other things at play. From experience, water test, before and after adding anything, and when adding things space it out. I am sorry your corals are dying but my first guess is its not your marine pure. I would hazard it was a spike in phosphates then a swing in alkalinity, which both will cause stn. If it was truely some chemical from the marinepure they couldn't handle, believe me, they would Rapid TN, and say f this.

You bring up a good point that a 50% water change is never a good idea.... well unless you desperately need to get a toxin out of the water. Did you read the part about me being a biologist? I promise you all of my parameters are spot on and were before the introduction of MP. Also did you read the part about SPS looking terrible within 2 hours of introducing MP and not changing anything else in the tank?

Again, I know lots of people have had great success with MP. However, I am hearing more and more people with similar stories to my own.

[DaveRaz]

That's too bad because this block took my nitrates from 20 down to 5ppm over 6 weeks and my acro packed display is rocking. (KNOCKING ON WOOD!!!!).

Good luck with solving your issues.

[homer1475]

You bring up a good point that a 50% water change is never a good idea.... well unless you desperately need to get a toxin out of the water. Did you read the part about me being a biologist? I promise you all of my parameters are spot on and were before the introduction of MP. Also did you read the part about SPS looking terrible within 2 hours of introducing MP and not changing anything else in the tank?

Again, I know lots of people have had great success with MP. However, I am hearing more and more people with similar stories to my own.

You can claim to be a rocket scientist, means nothing to anyone on the inet. Your a biologist, it means absolutely nothing if your not a marine biologist. Spot on for parameters also means nothing. Actual numbers will tell people if there spot on or not. What you think is spot on, could be completely out of wack, but without actual numbers, who knows? See where I'm going here?

It's funny how people are quick to jump on the bandwagon when things go bad, but have a read through the actual MP thread and you'll see none of these issues. I know for a fact a friend of mine put 2 blocks in his tank which is only SPS and his looks awesome with 0 issues. The MP has been in his tank for well over a year now. I have 2 blocks in my sump, and although my tank is newly setup(tank upgrade so all th coral has been around for a while), none of my corals are having issues.

[moatdaddy]

So that pukani, there is verified proven research outside and inside the aquarium that it will leach phosphates. Just because phosphates read 0 does not mean you have 0. Mine reads 0 but i have algae growing, absorbing it, and my nitrates read 0 but my SPS have finally colored up.

On this tank i went to daily alkalinity testing. Here is my testing regime via an app. The days i miss on Alkainity are tested just forgot to notate in my phone.
I wish i could go back and show the last water change. Stupid Instant Ocean is affordable but at 11 dkh. If i did a 50% water change my 8.5 would surely hit 10 and i would burn my sps.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/moatdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-05-05-07-53-42.png (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/moatdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-05-05-07-53-42.png.html)

Now could your isssue have been MP, yes. Most people do rinse theirs first. You did not. Yet if you look at the sheer amount of tanks that run this product, to hear the odd situation of it being a bad batch while understandable makes me wonder if it could have been something else. I just think that MP is literally a hosting source. I do not rationalize what chemical it could release to cause SLOW tissue necrosis. I would be more apt to believe rapid.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1668910

here is a thread that says why am i having STN. Overwhelmingly its Alkalinity swings responses.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/moatdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0019.jpg (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/moatdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0019.jpg.html)

here is mine in a dead flow spot

[EpicWin]

You can claim to be a rocket scientist, means nothing to anyone on the inet. Your a biologist, it means absolutely nothing if your not a marine biologist. Spot on for parameters also means nothing. Actual numbers will tell people if there spot on or not. What you think is spot on, could be completely out of wack, but without actual numbers, who knows? See where I'm going here?

It's funny how people are quick to jump on the bandwagon when things go bad, but have a read through the actual MP thread and you'll see none of these issues. I know for a fact a friend of mine put 2 blocks in his tank which is only SPS and his looks awesome with 0 issues. The MP has been in his tank for well over a year now. I have 2 blocks in my sump, and although my tank is newly setup(tank upgrade so all th coral has been around for a while), none of my corals are having issues.

Look. I completely explained in my OP that most people have had great success. I am in no way denying that. What I am saying is that I have a good deal of scientific experience which I have used to narrow my issue to this product. While you are correct that I am not a marine biologist, your argument that a biology degree means nothing if it isn't marine biology completely discredits your entire opinion. Every biologist--marine or otherwise-- takes a good deal of chemistry, ecology, genetics and on and on. A PHD in marine biology generally means you have done a lot of field work i.e. you have collected specimens in the field. Now please make the argument to me on how collecting specimens in the field makes you the only one knowledgeable on water chemistry.

Now as to my numbers. My point is this. Ive been in this hobby a long time. I always test my parameters before I post. I do this out of respect for those who are helping me solve my issue. I know what my parameters should be like the back of my hand. The reason I don't bother to post my parameters is because I am not looking for someone to tell me that my Ca levels should be 440 rather than 460. That kind of input is a waste of my time, and those who will hopefully benefit from this thread in the future.

My point is this. I did my research on this product. I read all of the MP threads. I saw mostly good review and then some discussing the AL issue. As I said in my OP I fully acknowledged the Al issue. So, what I'm trying to do here is give someone looking to buy this product my experience. You can look at my posts on Reef 2 Reef and here. Im not someone to jump to conclusions and badmouth products. Quite the opposite, I have great respect for those who innovate in our hobby. But, when I lose an entire tank full of SPS right after introducing a product, others deserve to know.

[moatdaddy]

my point is slow tissue necrosis is fairly specific reaction to certain things. that is all. If they rapid melted i would have been more suspect as to it being MP. good luck and sorry your having troubles.

[civics14]

Again, like others have stated, not to discount your experience, but I have the MP 8x8x4 in my 150g mixed reef tank and no ill effects. All SPS have very nice polyp extension.

[Skim]

OK so you have had no problems with using the product that has been stated a few times, but has it done anything to have a positive or is it one of those things that you have spent $60.00-$75.00 and can say well it hasn't hurt anything.

[EpicWin]

Figured I would tie this thread up. Its been about a month since the Marine Pure disaster. I lost about 50% of my SPS. After taking the MP out of my tank, it took about 3 weeks to get polyp extension again. I am happy to say that colors are starting to return and it looks like there will be no more loses. Im also very happy that it looks like I will not need to reset the tank and start over. Whatever it was that the MP put in the water has long since gone.

[BigJohnny]

Unfortunately this is by no means conclusive. STN can start and spread for a variety of reasons, and although I agree the timing is suspicious, there is an equally likely chance it was coincidence.

Now, had you added the marinepure back in after the stn stopped and your corals regained stability, and the problems started again, I'd be more convinced. Obviously you wouldn't do that though lol.

Having said that, I am paranoid and probably wouldn't add it due to this and the aluminum stories. Tons of people love it though. I know an LFS that uses marinepure in every tank and has had epic tanks for a decade.

Sounds like a good BRS investigates topic! What exactly does marinepure add to your tank/do to your tank besides bio filtration.

Good luck moving forward and thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[BigJohnny]

and just realized this thread is over a year old.........oops

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[boxfishpooalot]

Its been proven by triton tests of various reefers that marine pure releases aluminum.

If i doubt something i dont use it if it has any kind of metal. The only metal allowed in my tank is titanium and iron oxide but i rarely use that too.

[ReefCowboy]

Just came back from reefapalooza and spoke to their rep. They said there was a batch(unknown units) that did not completely finish the heating process during manufacturing and therefore could be leaching the Al.

They said have gone over that issue and the problem has been resolved.

[jason2459]

lol how convenient. Do they have a date stamp ot batch numbers that are good from or known bad ones?

I will buy another new one just to make sure. As I'm testing some things out.

[jason2459]

Looked back on a few things. So, basically they are saying they've had a quality control issue for over a year. That's either very bad or most likely I call BS.

[ReefCowboy]

lol how convenient. Do they have a date stamp ot batch numbers that are good from or known bad ones?

I will buy another new one just to make sure. As I'm testing some things out.

I agree. I also spoke to brightwells rep, he said Marine Pure is heated cured while brightwells is chemically cured. He assured brightwells would pass Al testing, and while inspecting the Nitrate block(yellow sulfur one) I noticed pores were way smaller then marine pures. He said brightwells has lots more surface area than marine pures block. One block according to him woukd treat a 1200 gal tank

[TangingOut]

So there is no knockoff marine pure? I also thought it was weird to have fake media filter. Doesn't matter to me, I use Siporax.

[jason2459]

I have very little trust for Brightwell marketing as I know some of it is completely false. I am testing their bio media out as well.


I also have both marine pure and brightwell bricks and plates in my sump and do believe both are perfectly adequate for housing bacteria.

[ReefCowboy]

So there is no knockoff marine pure? I also thought it was weird to have fake media filter. Doesn't matter to me, I use Siporax.

I dont think there are knockoffs out there. It seems indeed it was an issue with the manufacturing of the blocks.

[ReefCowboy]

I have very little trust for Brightwell marketing as I know some of it is completely false. I am testing their bio media out as well.


I also have both marine pure and brightwell bricks and plates in my sump and do believe both are perfectly adequate for housing bacteria.

Jason,

Hows the testing going BTW? Any results to show for now? Im torn with Brightwell as it seems odd that they dont heat cure their blocks. I agree that both blocks would be just fine.

[ClownNut]

Look. I completely explained in my OP that most people have had great success. I am in no way denying that. What I am saying is that I have a good deal of scientific experience which I have used to narrow my issue to this product. While you are correct that I am not a marine biologist, your argument that a biology degree means nothing if it isn't marine biology completely discredits your entire opinion. Every biologist--marine or otherwise-- takes a good deal of chemistry, ecology, genetics and on and on. A PHD in marine biology generally means you have done a lot of field work i.e. you have collected specimens in the field. Now please make the argument to me on how collecting specimens in the field makes you the only one knowledgeable on water chemistry.

Now as to my numbers. My point is this. Ive been in this hobby a long time. I always test my parameters before I post. I do this out of respect for those who are helping me solve my issue. I know what my parameters should be like the back of my hand. The reason I don't bother to post my parameters is because I am not looking for someone to tell me that my Ca levels should be 440 rather than 460. That kind of input is a waste of my time, and those who will hopefully benefit from this thread in the future.

My point is this. I did my research on this product. I read all of the MP threads. I saw mostly good review and then some discussing the AL issue. As I said in my OP I fully acknowledged the Al issue. So, what I'm trying to do here is give someone looking to buy this product my experience. You can look at my posts on Reef 2 Reef and here. Im not someone to jump to conclusions and badmouth products. Quite the opposite, I have great respect for those who innovate in our hobby. But, when I lose an entire tank full of SPS right after introducing a product, others deserve to know.

as i understand the scientific method required 3 to be a pattern. you have a hypothesis which you only test it once. and your hypothesis seems only work for your tank which means time to go back to the drawing board and readjust the hypothesis and do the test again.
also not follow instruction fully, it's like buying a gun that comes with an instruction that tells you not to point the gun at yourself and somehow you shot yourself and blame the gun is defective.

[las]

Just my experience - when you add things to an established tank, that can significantly change your nutrient levels ( Po4, Nitrate.), SPS corals STN. Corals are adaptable creatures in the long run. But, in the short run, they can’t handle big changes. This exact situation u describe happened to me when bio-pellets first came out. My corals STN’d. I later came to realize what happened. The nitrate and phosphate both dropped significantly and quickly. And once that happens and corals get shocked they can’t be “ brought back”. Which is why they didn’t go back to normal after you pulled out the Marine pure. On top of this, u performed a 50% water charge. Which further changed your nutrients in a major way.

Obviously, I can’t for sure tell you what happened. But, reading your story reminded me exactly of what happened to me. I don’t think it was the MP. I think it was the significant changes in your nutrients that did it. Because, the capacity of your tank to process nitrogenous substances was increased due to you using the Marine Pure.