Skimmerless: Planning a xenia fuge and either chaeto fuge or ATS. Could use input.

[Radioheadx14]

My plan is to keep it simple and go skimmerless. Reasoning is less equipment to fail, clean, and teach my wife how to operate when I am on a work trip. So, I have plenty of room in the sump of my 40g tank so why not employ double fuges? Dosers are pretty hands off, socks are easy to switch and feeding is also not a problem.

My reason for posting is to see if other have advice with their experiences doing this, or if there is some aspect I should change.

My sump:
http://i.imgur.com/UtyzkB4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lXdrW4I.jpg

My plan was a xenia fuge in one section and maybe start with a chaeto fuge, and switch to a DIY ATS if that doesnt work well. I may use the middle chamber for xenia as it gets unfiltered water (doesnt pass thru sock). Plus that will be a sweet looking fuge. The right chamber will be for the chaeto as it goes through a filter sock.

I can use an LED spotlight for the chaeto and a Chinese box LED for the xenia.

Right now I have mostly SPS, and as fish goes, a pair of clowns and a 6-line wrasse. Soon I will be adding a flame hawk, ORA pygmy filefish, and an electric indigo dottyback. The 6-line is on watch and may be banished to the sump if he acts up.

My Tank (with lights off):
http://i.imgur.com/ZwCkCcF.jpg

[ca1ore]

Never ran a tank without a skimmer, but I have done a xenia fuge before. Worked pretty well, just takes a long time to grow in. On my current tank I have an aptasia fuge (though not intentional :lol:).

[amcvay1979]

Xenia fuge is a great idea but you will need to keep a watchful eye on it seeding or creeping into the display. I added one small Xenia frag to my display, kept it away from rocks and now it's all over. It dropped my nitrate and phosphate to zero too.

[Radioheadx14]

I have a mesh sheet that that is in between the baffles before it gets to the return. I will keep a watchful eye on it, and the DT. I read the key is lower flow in the fuge to prevent loose pieces from getting suspended.

[SPS_77493]

I have an Xenia fuge with cheap eBay LEDs no skimmer and so far so good. It's growing pretty fast. My tanks is around 40/g with only one fish. Try to keep smaller bioload since there is no skimmer. Here's a quick video.

https://vimeo.com/165368197


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[HefeWeizen]

The problem I see with Xenia is that it can die off suddenly and will take a long time to re-establish. You can get chaeto and caulerpa just about anytime if it happened to die off for some reason.

I am skimmerless, use chaeto, caulerpa, and a DIY ATS.

My lighting for the fuge and ATS are two 9 watt 5,000K LEDs.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/ANEMONEBUFF/4ACCBACC-29FA-49C6-993F-17CC5DC6EFF4.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/ANEMONEBUFF/media/4ACCBACC-29FA-49C6-993F-17CC5DC6EFF4.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/ANEMONEBUFF/C026795D-3205-49D2-8BFE-1869E0E383C4.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/ANEMONEBUFF/media/C026795D-3205-49D2-8BFE-1869E0E383C4.jpg.html)

[KafudaFish]

This thread has a great discussion:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php

[Radioheadx14]

The problem I see with Xenia is that it can die off suddenly and will take a long time to re-establish. You can get chaeto and caulerpa just about anytime if it happened to die off for some reason.

I am skimmerless, use chaeto, caulerpa, and a DIY ATS.

My lighting for the fuge and ATS are two 9 watt 5,000K LED

Thats a good point about die off. Well i think ill have a larger bioload than i planned due to the 3 fish i have on order. I will play it by ear on ats vs fuge vs skimmer.

[Radioheadx14]

This thread has a great discussion:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php

Dead link

[KafudaFish]

I've been using Xenia as my primary filtration, and 2 skimmers as secondary for 11 years, and over 9 years with the current system. It has worked really well for me, and it will for anyone who takes the time to figure out their needs and how to read them. Like ca1ore said they will need to be pruned regularly when the Xenia fuge is really rockin along with both skimmers off. This is when they can become quite profitable. My fuge can easily make $300 a month, which equates to 30 large stalks being removed a month. From what I've found the growth of Xenia will directly inhibit the growth of macro algae as well a skimmate production so I wouldn't try to run them in tandem. If you try this, be aware this could cause a potential crash in the Xenia colony, once you stop introducing/producing enough nutrients to supply enough food for both.
The system is 300+ gallons with a 240g mixed reef display. The main Xenia fuge is approx. 30 gallons and the secondary Xenia/macro fuge is 20 gallons. This area also serves as a Xenia grow out station before I sell them to the stores.

Here are some videos of the Xenia Fuge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKfhOu2GBaA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hMoLeuo-cM

[KafudaFish]

Wonder why it is dead. If you click on thet little arrow next to Aqua's name in the quote it should the you there. It did when I tried.

[runningrandy04]

I would say Xenia fuge would be alright if it was on display. The pulsing is also a great indicator of parameters. Export is much harder with xenia though, as you need to remove the rock. It will start slime warfare if it is threatened. Macro is hardier, faster uptake, easier removal (key of export), and will most likely be eaten if it makes it to the DT.

[amcvay1979]

If it were me, I'd either go 100% biological and have 2 chambers, one for macro and one for Xenia. Or id go 100% mechanical with filter socks and a big skimmer. Pros/cons to each. I currently run without a fuge and carbon dose along with a skimmer and it works. My overflow is growing tons of sponges and there are thousands of pods living in them so it's kind of a fuge of sorts.

[dcrowley3]

About 6 months ago I went ATS only. No skimmer, socks, filters. I have a 75g display with 25g sump. Sump has chaeto and culerperla. I have bunches of pods,and phosphate, nitrate undetectable. My tank has several fish and LPS corals that are doing good.

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[Radioheadx14]

I hoping to keep low but detectable levels of nitrates and phosphates. Right now I have 0 on both and my corals are pale! My goal is 3-5 ppm nitrate and 0.02ppm phos. I am going to start with chaeto since its cheap and easy. Then move to xenia, and then add a ATS if needed, if all else fails, I may break down and get a skimmer.

I am against a skimmer right now because 1) they can be pretty loud (silence is key!) and 2) more expensive mechanical things that need tinkering with and worry that they start overflowing for no reason.

[MorganAtlanta]

I'd try chaeto in the right hand section, but don't just light it from above-- use "grow" LED strips to light it from three sides as well, which should reduce "self shading".

[Radioheadx14]

I'd try chaeto in the right hand section, but don't just light it from above-- use "grow" LED strips to light it from three sides as well, which should reduce "self shading".

not a bad idea

[Devaji108]

I personally think an ATS would be the best bet..an ATS will out grow =export faster then cheato. + there are more ppl running them with amazing tanks. means more help if you need it.
as you know the "trick" is to find that happy medium or balance weather you go skimmer ATS or cheato Xenia .

good luck! keep us posted on the progress.

[timnem70]

That's the funniest **** I've ever seen. Great use of songage.

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[Radioheadx14]

Ill probably make a tank thread once i get everything finalized.

[HefeWeizen]

Here's my YouTube link explaining my tank.

http://youtu.be/BU66QMtVayo

[solidcore]

I only clean my skimmer maybe once every couple months, it's thick

I would use a skimmer unless you change water a lot, I probably do 3 water changes a year and often go on long vacations. My fuge is a lot of rock, sand and a huge mat of cheato that I trap and flip like a giant pancake