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View Full Version : ick or velvet under the microscope


Chicago
05/06/2016, 03:43 PM
ok.. tell me your opinion.. ick or velvet. taken from body mucas after death of morish idol.

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20scrapping%20%2010.jpg (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/jasonreef/media/morish%20scrapping%20%2010.jpg.html)

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20scrapping%20%203.jpg (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/jasonreef/media/morish%20scrapping%20%203.jpg.html)

Chicago
05/06/2016, 03:45 PM
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/th_morish%20body%20scrapping%20400%20mag7.mp4 (http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20body%20scrapping%20400%20mag7.mp4)

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/th_morish%20body%20scrapping%20blue%20filter%20and%20no%20filter%205.mp4 (http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20body%20scrapping%20blue%20filter%20and%20no%20filter%205.mp4)

Chicago
05/06/2016, 03:52 PM
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/th_morish%20body%20scrapping%20blue%20filter%20and%20no%20filter%205.mp4 (http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20body%20scrapping%20blue%20filter%20and%20no%20filter%205.mp4)

ThRoewer
05/06/2016, 04:05 PM
From the way it moves my vote would be on a ciliate and not a dinoflagellate

Deinonych
05/06/2016, 04:23 PM
From the way it moves my vote would be on a ciliate and not a dinoflagellate

I agree. Ich trophonts "tumble" under the epithelium, which is why they are so irritating to fish. Amyloodinium uses rhizoids to affix itself to the fish, and doesn't move when attached.

Chicago
05/06/2016, 05:11 PM
Check out the middle of video

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/th_morish%20body%20scrapping%201.mp4 (http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab94/jasonreef/morish%20body%20scrapping%201.mp4)

ThRoewer
05/06/2016, 05:29 PM
Ciliate - you can even see the cilia moving.

Chicago
05/07/2016, 08:45 AM
ok so we are thinking saltwater ick.. crypto to be specific.

Deinonych
05/07/2016, 09:05 AM
That would be my guess. Brooklynella and Uronema are pear-shaped. Crypto trophonts are round like the specimen shown in your video.

Chicago
05/07/2016, 12:56 PM
Does velvet have cilia

ThRoewer
05/07/2016, 02:06 PM
Does velvet have cilia
No

Deinonych
05/08/2016, 07:56 AM
Does velvet have cilia

Velvet (aka Amyloodinium ocellatum) is a dinoflagellate, meaning it has two flagella (whip-like structures) for locomotion.

http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/rbpv/v24n1//1984-2961-rbpv-24-1-1-gf06.jpg

Chicago
05/08/2016, 08:32 AM
Thank you for the reply OK so here's my question. Is it possible that that is a dinospores for velvet. I asked because my scribbled has a dusty like appearance and it doesn't really look like crypto..aka saltwater ick. The strange thing is none of the wrasses have any signs of ick or velvet nor does the small blue face angel or even the Chevron tang

Deinonych
05/08/2016, 01:40 PM
No. Velvet is not a ciliate, and the organism in your video above is clearly a ciliate like crypto. It could also be Brooklynella or Uronema. I would lean toward crypto, though. Definitely not Amyloodinium (velvet).

2000se
05/08/2016, 07:14 PM
that's nuts man..great footage.

Chicago
05/08/2016, 09:37 PM
crazy thing is.. body of my scribble and the foxface have no signs of ick.. and yet they are breathing hard and male scribble is hanging at the top of the tank tonight.. they are all eating well and hungry.. go figure.. I would think this was velvet if not for the footage on the microscope..

ThRoewer
05/09/2016, 12:55 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to discard velvet after the examination of one dead fish. Many parasites leave a dead fish. Cryptocaryon needs a bit of time to leave since it in inside the skin. Amyloodinium just needs to retract it's "straw" and is off to "greener pastures".
Another difference is that Cryptocaryon has to encyst to get to another fish even if it hast to leave early. Amyloodinium, if less than 24 h on the host, can leave one fish and directly infect another.

The only way to be sure would be a live biopsy of the gills (if you have the guts for that).

Another thing: I have never seen fish breathe heavy due to an occult or visible low level Cryptocaryon infection. Usually an ich infection needs to be pretty progressed to cause rapid breathing.

Amyloodinium on the other hand usually starts with affecting the respiratory system heavily before showing on the skin.

I would give these fish a prophylactic freshwater or formalin bath to dislodge eventually present Amyloodinium. If the fish have velvet you should find something in the bath water (maybe strain it to a sufficiently fine micro sieve).

Chicago
05/09/2016, 06:31 AM
still trying to figure this out.. took some scrappings from the female scribble this am. I can see the ick. any of you see other bad guys..

not sure what the yellow spots are.. might be just some dust but noticed looks like limited to on the scales. have yet to see a pic of velvet so not sure.

anyways.. on of the videos we have a speedy ick.. flying all over the place.

next video has lord humungas .. ick. 50 times larger.

other is a close up

input welcome.. thanks

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/th_scribble%20monday%20fast%20moving.mp4 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20fast%20moving.mp4)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/th_scribble%20monday%20large%20and%20small%20fast.mp4 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20large%20and%20small%20fast.mp4)


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/th_scribble%20monday%20ick%20at%20rest%20other%20small%20unknown.mp4 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20ick%20at%20rest%20other%20small%20unknown.mp4)

Chicago
05/09/2016, 07:03 AM
stain or something bad?


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20scrapping%20stair%20or%20disease%201.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/scribble%20monday%20scrapping%20stair%20or%20disease%201.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20scrapping%20stair%20or%20disease%204.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/scribble%20monday%20scrapping%20stair%20or%20disease%204.jpg.html)

Chicago
05/09/2016, 07:04 AM
one more.. hour later.. not moving..

interesting to see how they try to attach ?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/scribble%20monday%20after%20hour%20not%20moving.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/scribble%20monday%20after%20hour%20not%20moving.jpg.html)

Chicago
05/09/2016, 07:12 AM
I take it back.. is this dividing

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/S20160509_0009.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/S20160509_0009.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/T20160509_002_0008.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/T20160509_002_0008.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/T20160509_002_0012.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/T20160509_002_0012.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/T20160509_002_0009.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/T20160509_002_0009.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/T20160509_002_0013.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/T20160509_002_0013.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/jchicago/T20160509_002_0014.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/jchicago/media/T20160509_002_0014.jpg.html)

Deinonych
05/09/2016, 09:46 AM
still trying to figure this out.. took some scrappings from the female scribble this am. I can see the ick. any of you see other bad guys..

not sure what the yellow spots are.. might be just some dust but noticed looks like limited to on the scales. have yet to see a pic of velvet so not sure.

anyways.. on of the videos we have a speedy ick.. flying all over the place.

next video has lord humungas .. ick. 50 times larger.

other is a close up

input welcome.. thanks



The "speedy" protozoan looks like either Brooklynella or Uronema. They are very similar morphologically, so not sure which one it is. The larger one looks like a crypto trophont.

Chicago
05/09/2016, 10:29 AM
ok two other possible bad guys.. :hammer:

Chicago
05/09/2016, 10:50 AM
ok.. so I have a dt tank that no longer has corals in it..

So although right not it is not a sps reef it will be in a year ..

so what are recommendations for treatment of the Display tank.. I have still a few angles in The DT.. and link 20 wrasses..

Prozipro?

other thoughts..