Probiotic Salt Question

[Syntax1325]

I have a couple questions regarding the Probiotic Salt.

1) Do the added vitamins/minerals and bacteria dissipate if they are kept mixing in a bucket long? I'd like to be able to make a large batch of water and use it over the span of a couple of week... I know that if you leave a bottle of OJ uncovered, the vitamins somehow leave the juice.... Is this salt the same? Should it be used immediately?

2) I'd like to keep my tank around 7.4 dkh, it's SPS dominant. I'm wondering which salt would be better to use, probiotic or regular salt? Aren't there supplements that you sell that boost your regular salt so that it has the same contents as the probiotic minus the bacteria?

Thanks for your help.

[plyle02]

The Probiotic salt is designed to be used within 24 hours due to the bacteria addition. For mixing and holding, you would prefer the reef salt, it too mixes with a low alkalinity. I mix and use the Probiotic salt within 15-30 minutes.

[Syntax1325]

What additives would I need to use in order to add the vitamins and minerals included in the probiotic salt?

[plyle02]

You can use the Probiotic lineup, and still use the Reef Salt. For example, if you wanted to use Pro Bio S and NP Pro, which is a bacteria and carbon source combo. Along side of it, you can use Phos Minus to control PO4 or not, I do and it is not harsh on the system. Many are using the stack method which Debora uses. This consists of Pro Bio S, NP Pro, and a single reactor with Zeomix, Carbon, and Phos Minus. This is what ultimately drives ULNS. Along side, you can use Aminomix, Vitality, would essentially be vitamins and aminos. Is there any particular reason that you do not want to mix the salt one batch at a time? To me I did something similar in the past, I had to change my thought process when converting to this salt. I now fill my RO jugs with the fresh water, and when I have 10 gallons, I mix, then 20 minutes later into the tank. For me it meant that I did not have to leave the water mixing with the brute in the living room:)

[Syntax1325]

Would there be a benefit to using the Probiotic Salt and NOT the other stuff or is that defeating the purpose?

I currently use Aquavitro Salinity which it's recommended to use soon after the salt dissolves as well. I like to heat my water before a change... the entire process can take about 3 hours and I'd like to shorten it up a little. I guess it really doesn't matter because the mixing takes such a short period of time.

[plyle02]

Would there be a benefit to using the Probiotic Salt and NOT the other stuff or is that defeating the purpose?

I currently use Aquavitro Salinity which it's recommended to use soon after the salt dissolves as well. I like to heat my water before a change... the entire process can take about 3 hours and I'd like to shorten it up a little. I guess it really doesn't matter because the mixing takes such a short period of time.

The advantage is that the probiotic salt has vitamins, aminos, and bacteria, blended specifically for sps tanks. As you know and are aware, we can get similar results doing things in different ways. The system is like the Fauana Marin, Zeovit, or Red Sea type systems. I find it to be a much more gentle probiotic based system, having a salt blended for this program has a major advantage over other systems, IMO. Cheers! :)

[Syntax1325]

I'm now considering changing my system over to the Aquaforest system. I am currently using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt (wasn't very interested in switching until after I purchased the new salt.... figures).

Is there anything I can do to begin transitioning my system while finishing my current bucket of salt?

I currently use BRS additives to maintain the big 3 and have been having good success keeping those parameters consistent. I'd rather not change this part of the system if it is not strongly recommended.


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[plyle02]

You could use the salt until the supply has finished, just keep in mind to keep values to NSW target, as this is where AF salts mix. To replace trace, as you seem happy with the Big 3, would be to use Component A, B, and C and Kalium as a side or individual dose. These also could be automated. Once you deplete supplies with BRS, you could use the mix your own balling lite formula, not quite as harsh on the wallet as the pre-mix Component 123. Some like myself prefer the convenience of having the pre-mixed formula. I have outlined above the Probiotic capabilities, they do not change by the way, this would still be that same approach :) Cheers!

[Syntax1325]

Ok, getting down to some finer details here. The details of my tank are in my signature. I'm currently running about 1 litre of Matrix bio media in a tlf reactor. My corals have pretty good color and growth but I'm looking for much more pop.

My current parameters are:

KH: 7.6
CA: 420
MG: 1300
K: 380
p04: .04-.05 (red sea)
Nitrate: not measurable via api... i have a salifert test kit coming

I disturbed my sandbed quite a bit rearranging some rock and I'm dealing with a little bit of a cyano issue, nothing serious but it's there.

I'm looking at purchasing: Probios, NP, Kalium, Components ABC, and not exactly sure on the other stuff.

Any advice on how to proceed from here would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Syntax1325]

Quick question regarding component strong components: are these powdered replacements for the liquid abc? It says to add to Kh/CA/Mag solutions? Can I add this to my BRS additive components?


The mixing of component C says to add to sodium bicarbonate... Can I add to soda ash or sodium carbonate solution?

The components are supposed to be put into multiple solutions? Component A into Calcium and Mag Chloride solutions? Component B into CA and Mag solutions?

Sorry for all the questions.


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[Syntax1325]

Through a crazy amount of research and reading I've answered some of my own questions and have run into other areas that are unclear.

I don't think adding the strong components are going to work in the BRS additives because they are not the same. AF uses sodium bicarbonate and I'm using Sodium Carbonate which is twice as potent. AF requires three containers with four additives, unlike BRS where the Alk/Ca/Mag are all separate. Trying to reconcile the dosing of the strong component isn't going to work, especially since I'm not using the mineral salts. That leaves me with the ABC option - If I was using components 1/2/3 I would be dosing micro elements based on keeping my Alk and Calc stable without any messy math. However, I would need to manually dose ABC.... How do I figure out how much to dose? Do I still base it on Alk/Ca even though the BRS additives are of differing potency? Not sure how that works.

How about the mineral salts? Do people with CA RX and other 2 part just skip this?

Can I combine ABC I to one dosing container so I can make the automation easier and only need one dosing pump? Will the components separate when mixed together?


So many questions here, thanks for your time.



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[plyle02]

Syntax1325,
I would not recommend using BRS supplements with AF supplements, I would either use Component ABC and Kalium, or dose all trace individually. Component ABC can be automated for sure, but you need to keep them separate, so no you cannot mix into one solution. Like me, I had a few months worth of 2/3 part to work out before I converted to Component 123, I suggest you dose either of the 2 possibilities until you finish the BRS products. For either of these two system or with a CARX, it is not necessary to use Reef Mineral Salt, unless using the balling liquids from AF, as it is a buffer for mineral and trace. Hope this helps, it really boils down to 2 choices if you continue your same process for the Big 3 minerals :)

[Syntax1325]

Thanks for the information. I'm going to order component ABC and Kalium along with coral AEV and B along with ProbioS and NPPro.

I'm not sure how much I'm going to dose but I'll probably start at 1/4 doses to start.

Would you recommend starting the coral supplements with the ProbioS and NP?


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[Syntax1325]

Just one more thing:

I received my nitrate test (Salifert) kit yesterday so I decided to run a phos and nitrate test last night... My Nitrate came in between 0-.2ppm and Phose came in at .04.
I do have a basketball sized ball of chaeto in my sump that needs to be trimmed back every 2 to 3 weeks, and a bit of bryopsis that grows in my overflow box (and nowhere else) that is playing the role an algae scrubber that I harvest once a week.

Would you recommend that I add the ProbioS and NP pro given that my Nitrate is reading low and run a little phosphate remover to see if I can cut my phosphate to .02?

I'm not sure how to proceed because I am almost phosphate limited... I'm sure if I took my chaeto out of my sump and harvested all of the bryopsis that the nitrates would rise. I guess that means my reading of .01-.02 is misleading?

Thoughts? Thanks.

[plyle02]

If you wish to convert to using the AF Probiotic based system, then yes, the bacteria needs to be added(Pro Bio S), and it needs to be fed(NP Pro). Even if you dose 1 drop of each per day, this will eventually help to seed the tank and continue to use bacteria to aid in nutrients being held very low. I would simply counter low nutrients by upping my nutrients going in the tank, so dosing the corals supplements, and feeding the fish more often, this will help to run high nutrients in, but also maintain low nutrient conditions, like on a reef. The chaeto may eventually fade, if it starts to wither, remove and start upping dose of NP Pro and Pro Bio S :) Cheers!

[Syntax1325]

Given my Po4 is at .04 should I run Phosminus to get it to .01?

I was thinking about dosing 1/2 doses of abc after water changes once a week to start.

Would you recommend that I start adding coral a,e,v and b right away?

You are being very helpful, thanks.


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[Syntax1325]

Here's my dosing schedule for the first few weeks: Please comment...

Dosing Schedule

Monday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral A and V (2 drops)

Tuesday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral B and E (2 drops)

Wednesday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral A and v (2 drops)

Thursday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral B and E (2 drops)

Friday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral A and v (2 drops)

Saturday (water change day)
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Coral B and E (2 drops)

Sunday
Kalium (1 drop)
Pro Bio S (1 drop)
NP Pro (1 drop)
Component ABC (1 cap full)

[plyle02]

This schedule looks good, just make sure to observe each day to see shifts in color, increased polyp extension, and any other visual cues that are associate to the health of the corals. Keep us informed as to your observations :) Cheers

[Syntax1325]

Thank you!


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[Ucantwin]

Would you mind taking a few pics of your sps so we can see the transition?

[plyle02]

Yes Syntax1325, please take plenty of pics and show us your results :) Cheers!

[plyle02]

Please feel free to visit my tank, as the volume is close to yours. My tank is on the SPS forum, if you start at page 22, that is when I decided to go live with the AF program. I have included many pics, and also my dosing program, or any new products that I have converted. Again, if you have questions, we want to be here to guide you as best as possible :)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2381737&page=56

[Syntax1325]

I'm going to start the program tomorrow... I'll start a new thread so the title will be more representative of the content, and yes, it will include pictures.


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[Syntax1325]

Please feel free to visit my tank, as the volume is close to yours. My tank is on the SPS forum, if you start at page 22, that is when I decided to go live with the AF program. I have included many pics, and also my dosing program, or any new products that I have converted. Again, if you have questions, we want to be here to guide you as best as possible :)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2381737&page=56



excellent!


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