View Full Version : This is impossible!
So I lost a tank full of fish to ich/velvet/flukes/heater malfunction/whatever. The only things left in the tank were snails, cleaner shrimp, hermits and fire shrimp. That was 26 weeks ago.
I bought a new fish a few weeks ago and put it through TTM for five (not four) changes. It got 50 minute formalin baths after the first and fourth transfer. It got Prazipro treatment for 3 days on both the second and fourth transfer. It was happy, ate like a pig, actually grew some, and had crystal clear fins and sleek, smooth body throughout the TTM process. While the TTM was occurring, I sterilized and cycled a new tank with Dr. Tim's and ammonia. It is bare bottom with PVC hiding places. The fish went in that tank for 5 weeks. TTM and the new tank never stressed the fish. He always ate as soon as I fed him and was tame, fat and clean of parasites. Fins were always crystal clear. He stayed in there and gained weight for 5 weeks.
So then he went into the display (120 gallon). That was two weeks ago. He ate instantly and picked at the rocks constantly. His fins were perfect, his skin was perfect and his behavior was perfect. I was over the hurdle. He's the only fish in there, right?
Well, I just looked at him and he has white spots on his fins and tail. There are four fire shrimp, two cleaner shrimp, lots of snails and some hermits. The tank shows no ammonia, no nitrites, and thanks to two MarinePure ceramic blocks, no nitrates.
Where did this come from?
I'm good at following instructions and it seems like I should have no problems as careful as I was.
I don't think I can catch him in this tank. The rocks are huge and some weigh thirty pounds each (dry). If I dropped one taking it out while standing on a ladder it might be a bigger disaster than I'm willing to risk.
To add to that problem, there are two fish in the cycled quarantine tank that have been in there for two weeks that have been through TTM that were to go in the display in three more weeks. And I have another fish in TTM phase one right now.
Can you think of anything I could do in the display tank that might help that fish and cure the tank without harming the shrimp and snails?
I have Ich Shield. It says do not use with corals or anemones. What about snails (there's hundreds in the sand that only come out at night)? And shrimp?
shua71
05/17/2016, 09:20 PM
I have Ich Shield. It says do not use with corals or anemones. What about snails (there's hundreds in the sand that only come out at night)? And shrimp?
I'm going through pretty much the same thing... Sorry to hear for a hobby which is supposed to relax you it is damn stressful. If that medication is bad for corals it will most likely harm all inverts including your snails and shrimp
rc4kinu
05/17/2016, 09:50 PM
Sorry to hear about your dilemma. My only explanation is that there must be a small fish hiding in your rock work. The reason is that it's happened to me before. I was in the fallow period with my tank and was looking at one acro colony and deep inside the branches was a tiny goby starring at me. I couldn't believe it survived dipping not once but twice. I knew I had ich so I had to get rid of goby and start the clock all over again. It was nearly impossible to catch that sucker but I did but ended up killing it anyway.:( I had many more (expensive) fish in QT to worry about getting back in there.
Jeff4777
05/17/2016, 11:59 PM
cross/aerosol contamination? fish in rock/overflow/sump?
m0nkie
05/18/2016, 12:03 AM
did you get any new coral during fallow period? did you QT all corals?
imo it comes down to this:
1) QT everything wet
or
2) don't QT, but keep fish stress free: under-stock and feed nutritious frozen food.
jbvdhp
05/18/2016, 01:09 AM
It happens... Sorry to hear. Happens to all of us, some are just not as lucky even with the proper precautions
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scuzy
05/18/2016, 01:20 AM
How long was the fallow on the display?
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snorvich
05/18/2016, 04:48 AM
did you get any new coral during fallow period? did you QT all corals?
imo it comes down to this:
1) QT everything wet
or
2) don't QT, but keep fish stress free: under-stock and feed nutritious frozen food.
Option 2 will not prevent brook, velvet, etc.
did you get any new coral during fallow period? did you QT all corals?
imo it comes down to this:
1) QT everything wet
or
2) don't QT, but keep fish stress free: under-stock and feed nutritious frozen food.
There are no corals. The tank was fallow with shrimp, crabs, and snails for 26 weeks. One tiny (one and a half inch) butterfly in a 120 gallon tank is definitely under-stocked. And he is definitely stress free. He's absolutely tame, even after TTM and a 5-week stay in a cycled quarantine tank.
This a deluxe tank with over-thick glass and a 48-inch sump. It has a Bubble King skimmer that pulls beautiful skim, two large reactors (fresh ROX carbon and GFO), two Marine Pure blocks and an Ecotech L1 return. It has two Ecotech 40's and an Ecotech LED light. I also use Purigen in one of the seven inch socks. The readings and circulation is good enough for any coral, but it's for fish.
I feed the shrimp and crabs pellets and they all come out for them. There is very little algae and the hermits keep it trimmed down to where I would just call it "color". The sand stays clean because of the many snails in the sand. I get a light film of green on the glass that cleans easily every three to four days.
Interestingly enough, I have a 210 gallon mixed reef with lots of fish that has not given any problem for nearly four years now. The coral grows, the fish grow and there hasn't been any disease, ever. It's in another room, on another floor.
Sorry to hear about your dilemma. My only explanation is that there must be a small fish hiding in your rock work. The reason is that it's happened to me before. I was in the fallow period with my tank and was looking at one acro colony and deep inside the branches was a tiny goby starring at me. I couldn't believe it survived dipping not once but twice. I knew I had ich so I had to get rid of goby and start the clock all over again. It was nearly impossible to catch that sucker but I did but ended up killing it anyway.:( I had many more (expensive) fish in QT to worry about getting back in there.
I won't discount the possibility because when the tank went bad many weeks ago, I never found a tiny pygmy possum wrasse. I thought he died like everything else but I never saw him. I was under the impression that the shrimp and crabs probably ate him. They pounced on the other fish as soon as they were still.
The rocks are acid-cured Pukani, very large pieces that interlock. There are tunnels and passageways that it's possible he could live and hide in, but what would he eat? The CUC definitely eats the pellets, almost immediately and they are bigger than his mouth anyway.
I'm going through pretty much the same thing... Sorry to hear for a hobby which is supposed to relax you it is damn stressful. If that medication is bad for corals it will most likely harm all inverts including your snails and shrimp
I may call the manufacturer for more information on the Ich Shield. Anybody out there tried it and have advice?
I've been in this hobby since the early 70's. It is definitely stressful. It also ties you down and keeps you very busy. And it's gawdawful expensive.
tassod
05/18/2016, 07:58 AM
Fallow periods are not 100% full proof of getting rid of parasites and this is just another case that proves it. I would not rely on this method to rid a tank of disease, it may not be easier but much quicker to just break down the tank and sterilize it and start over.
Fallow periods are not 100% full proof of getting rid of parasites and this is just another case that proves it. I would not rely on this method to rid a tank of disease, it may not be easier but much quicker to just break down the tank and sterilize it and start over.
I'm considering this. However, "breaking down" is major. Sterilizing is not. As I said, the rocks are very heavy even when dry. I think I would rather run bleach through the whole system intact, but only if this fish succumbs to the disease and only if I can remove the shrimp, crabs, and snails. Lots of those snails bury during the day.
tassod
05/18/2016, 08:30 AM
I'm considering this. However, "breaking down" is major. Sterilizing is not. As I said, the rocks are very heavy even when dry. I think I would rather run bleach through the whole system intact, but only if this fish succumbs to the disease and only if I can remove the shrimp, crabs, and snails. Lots of those snails bury during the day.
I would at least remove all the sand if your going to run bleach through it.
fernalfer
05/18/2016, 04:14 PM
Srry to hear your dilemma. I have my first fish in QT and he is healthy and eats like a pig. I don't have the proper stuff to do TTM but have prazipro and cupramine on hand. Just not sure i want to treat with copper. Don't want to hurt a healthy fish that may not even have Ick or parasites. Confused on what to do.
Jeff4777
05/18/2016, 06:38 PM
Srry to hear your dilemma. I have my first fish in QT and he is healthy and eats like a pig. I don't have the proper stuff to do TTM but have prazipro and cupramine on hand. Just not sure i want to treat with copper. Don't want to hurt a healthy fish that may not even have Ick or parasites. Confused on what to do.
I use 2 plastic containers, pvc pieces , 2 heaters, air pump, 2 floating thermometers, disposable air line/stones for TTM. About it aside one container only used for formalin baths.
scuzy
05/18/2016, 07:14 PM
Have you check over flow for the possum wrasse?
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Have you check over flow for the possum wrasse?
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I have. It would be difficult for him to get in. It's covered to prevent algae growth and jumpers.
I've had fish get into overflows before so I always keep them covered.
Back to the brain trust here:
It was 8 days ago that I noticed the white spots on the butterfly's fins. They lasted half a day. I know everybody says they'll come back but since it was not an emergency, I did nothing. He's been clear and symptom-free since then. He doesn't scratch and eats like a pig.
Could they have been bruises? He shows no interest in the cleaner shrimp (6 of them) but that doesn't mean they're not interested in him. Maybe they pinched him when he wasn't looking?
In the meantime, there were 3 aptasia in the tank. Now they're gone. Could he have gotten stung while eating them?
As you can see, I'm looking for ways to not take drastic measures on this tank. Wishful thinking?
When would you say I'm out of danger? Remember, the tank was fish-fallow for 26 weeks and the butterfly went through 5 stages of ttm with 2 formalin dips and two episodes of Prazipro.
jbvdhp
05/26/2016, 12:20 PM
At this point, I'd wait and see what develops.
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16 days since the "spot" sighting and nothing has returned. I have two fish in 5 week quarantine that I intended to put in this tank. That's up in a week. They are doing well in the quarantine tank so I could possibly let them stay there for a while.
Would you chance it? Remember, the tank sat fallow for 6 months except for crabs, snails and shrimp and the little butterfly was clean through 5 ttm changes with 2 formalin dips and 2 sessions with prazipro. That's why the spots surprised me.
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