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BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 10:29 AM
Hey everyone,
My luck in QT, has been absolute crap. 0/4.
However, thanks to a great friend, who Qt'ed for me, I now have fish in my tank. I know, I know, don't trust anyone except yourself to QT, but I trust this guy, he has 16k posts on here :)

So, just so I don't kill anymore fish, just as a precaution, would you mind checking if everything is okay with my QT process?

Get fish, temp acclimate, matched salinity, into formalin dip for 45 minutes, then into 5 gal bucket to start TTM, add prime on second day.
Wait less than 72 hours, and transfer into second bucket(Which has Prazi? I was confused on this.. Is it a dip between transfers, or prazi in the bucket?)
Transfer to third bucket in less than 72 hours (Y/N Prazi?)
Transfer to fourth bucket in less than 72 hours (Y/N Prazi?)
Move to cycled 10 gal Qt, observe for 4-6 weeks? Treat as necessary?

That's what I'm planning on doing. Of course, the QT tank will be ~40 feet from display, aerosol effect should be nonexistent...

I was confused when people say to prazi during TTM.
Do you dip the fish in a more concentrated bath during a transfer, not in the actual bucket, or do you just dose the normal dose during a part of the process?

Thank you!!

snorvich
05/22/2016, 11:05 AM
Hey everyone,
My luck in QT, has been absolute crap. 0/4.
However, thanks to a great friend, who Qt'ed for me, I now have fish in my tank. I know, I know, don't trust anyone except yourself to QT, but I trust this guy, he has 16k posts on here :)

So, just so I don't kill anymore fish, just as a precaution, would you mind checking if everything is okay with my QT process?

Get fish, temp acclimate, matched salinity, into formalin dip for 45 minutes, then into 5 gal bucket to start TTM, add prime on second day.
Wait less than 72 hours, and transfer into second bucket(Which has Prazi? I was confused on this.. Is it a dip between transfers, or prazi in the bucket?)
Transfer to third bucket in less than 72 hours (Y/N Prazi?)
Transfer to fourth bucket in less than 72 hours (Y/N Prazi?)
Move to cycled 10 gal Qt, observe for 4-6 weeks? Treat as necessary?

That's what I'm planning on doing. Of course, the QT tank will be ~40 feet from display, aerosol effect should be nonexistent...

I was confused when people say to prazi during TTM.
Do you dip the fish in a more concentrated bath during a transfer, not in the actual bucket, or do you just dose the normal dose during a part of the process?

Thank you!!

Simply add to one of the cycles then repeat in another cycle a week later. Otherwise, fine.

zeebies
05/22/2016, 11:53 AM
I would add some time on the front end - just after you receive the fish - to let the new addition rest and start eating in peace before any "stuff" is thrown at it.

For instance, when I get a new fish, I temp acclimate, match salinity and into QT it goes. Only after it recovers from transport and is eating well - usually 3 days to a week - do I start treatments. TTM is first, then Prazi x2. I've never had any losses this way. For future fish, I'll be adding a formalin dip as well.

FWIW I always do TTM and Prazi separately, I just like to take my time with the whole acclimation/treatment thing.

Dmorty217
05/22/2016, 12:00 PM
Prazipro just like you would in a hospital tank. Problem becomes that in a 5g bucket there isn't much O2 in the water to begin with and if you add PP that just further decreases oxygen

BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 12:24 PM
Simply add to one of the cycles then repeat in another cycle a week later. Otherwise, fine.



Okay, so like prazi in 1 and 3, or 2 and 4, but not 1 and 2..?

Sorry for all the questions, I just cannot stand losing any more fish.

Deinonych
05/22/2016, 12:46 PM
Okay, so like prazi in 1 and 3, or 2 and 4, but not 1 and 2..?

Sorry for all the questions, I just cannot stand losing any more fish.

Correct. The reason you skip a few days between treatments is to ensure any eggs that are present have hatched so the larvae can be exposed to the medication.

BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 01:48 PM
Prazipro just like you would in a hospital tank. Problem becomes that in a 5g bucket there isn't much O2 in the water to begin with and if you add PP that just further decreases oxygen



I will have a low flow powerhead an air stone in the bucket... I don't envision o2 being a problem? Do you think that'll be enough?

BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 03:17 PM
I would add some time on the front end - just after you receive the fish - to let the new addition rest and start eating in peace before any "stuff" is thrown at it.



For instance, when I get a new fish, I temp acclimate, match salinity and into QT it goes. Only after it recovers from transport and is eating well - usually 3 days to a week - do I start treatments. TTM is first, then Prazi x2. I've never had any losses this way. For future fish, I'll be adding a formalin dip as well.



FWIW I always do TTM and Prazi separately, I just like to take my time with the whole acclimation/treatment thing.



I did that for my first couple fish... I would feel more comfortable getting everything done quickly, especially when I still have the guarantee...

BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 03:18 PM
Correct. The reason you skip a few days between treatments is to ensure any eggs that are present have hatched so the larvae can be exposed to the medication.



Makes sense! Thank you!

krullshards
05/22/2016, 04:19 PM
Out of curiosity, at which point do your fish die? What kind of symptoms? You might have just been unlucky. I think during TTM if you notice a more aggressive disease, say brook or velvet, you should either stop TTM and PP or at least add additional formalin dips and/or medication to treat the aggressive disease first.

BigBlueTang
05/22/2016, 11:01 PM
Out of curiosity, at which point do your fish die? What kind of symptoms? You might have just been unlucky. I think during TTM if you notice a more aggressive disease, say brook or velvet, you should either stop TTM and PP or at least add additional formalin dips and/or medication to treat the aggressive disease first.

Hey Krull,

All of my fish died at ~ the 3-5 week range..

I have never done TTM, and lost my favorite(so far) fish to ich because I was dumb. Still kicking myself for that one. I always formalin dipped, so wasn't very worried about brook, and/or velvet..

With both Brook and Velvet, however, isn't it usually too late for the fish if you notice symptoms on the fish? Like mucous on the fish?

snorvich
05/23/2016, 05:39 AM
All of my fish died at ~ the 3-5 week range..



Sounds like you source runs copper in their tanks/system. I would guess velvet unless chromis were involved, then uronema.

Dmorty217
05/23/2016, 06:48 AM
Sounds like you need to change your QT practices. I started formalin dipping and putting fish in to a hospital tank with CP at the velvet level to avoid losing fish from systems with copper being run in the systems

BigBlueTang
05/23/2016, 08:59 AM
Sounds like you source runs copper in their tanks/system. I would guess velvet unless chromis were involved, then uronema.



No chromis were involved... I've read all about uronema and I'm way too scared of it..
All of the fish I got were from different sources, one of them being DD and one being LA and two being different LFS's... I didn't think DD or LA ran copper?

BigBlueTang
05/23/2016, 09:00 AM
Sounds like you need to change your QT practices. I started formalin dipping and putting fish in to a hospital tank with CP at the velvet level to avoid losing fish from systems with copper being run in the systems



Would you recommend this? Do you use a doctor prescribed CP or just the NLS ich shield powder?

Dmorty217
05/23/2016, 09:08 AM
Would you recommend this? Do you use a doctor prescribed CP or just the NLS ich shield powder?

NLS ich shield powder. I like to try and buy it from a store if possible since I have gotten it in the past without the bottle being sealed (Amazon) Not sure if that negatively effects the med or not. If you get it from the Vet/pharmacy the issue becomes that there are other things in the pill form than just 100% CP to make it stay in pill form so dosing correctly becomes a issue IMO. Plus I like to weigh out my meds so I can dose precisely

BigBlueTang
05/23/2016, 10:17 AM
NLS ich shield powder. I like to try and buy it from a store if possible since I have gotten it in the past without the bottle being sealed (Amazon) Not sure if that negatively effects the med or not. If you get it from the Vet/pharmacy the issue becomes that there are other things in the pill form than just 100% CP to make it stay in pill form so dosing correctly becomes a issue IMO. Plus I like to weigh out my meds so I can dose precisely

Okay, thank you Derek!

My LFS marks up almost 100% on dry goods, so amazon it is...
How much is the dose again? And you put the fish in it for 30 days correct?

Just another thought, I thought formalin treated velvet as well?

Dmorty217
05/23/2016, 11:13 AM
Formalin helps with things external but it won't kill all the velvet or ich, even flukes for that matter. The dose on the bottle reads 1 scoop per 20g but weigh all meds instead of using the provided scooper(s) otherwise you don't know exactly what you dosed. My disease books say 5mg/L for fish without symptoms or 15mg/L for fish with active infections. the latter is the recommended dose for velvet or 60mg per gallon. Metric is your friend when it comes to this even though "we" in Merica don't use it. Directs say for 21 days, my book sites velvet and ich both being eliminated without reinfection after 14 days. I personally have used CP to treat ich with a treatment only lasting 10 days, not that I would recommend that but it did work for me in at least 2 different occations

BigBlueTang
05/23/2016, 12:28 PM
Formalin helps with things external but it won't kill all the velvet or ich, even flukes for that matter. The dose on the bottle reads 1 scoop per 20g but weigh all meds instead of using the provided scooper(s) otherwise you don't know exactly what you dosed. My disease books say 5mg/L for fish without symptoms or 15mg/L for fish with active infections. the latter is the recommended dose for velvet or 60mg per gallon. Metric is your friend when it comes to this even though "we" in Merica don't use it. Directs say for 21 days, my book sites velvet and ich both being eliminated without reinfection after 14 days. I personally have used CP to treat ich with a treatment only lasting 10 days, not that I would recommend that but it did work for me in at least 2 different occations

That sounds really good...

A couple more questions on CP if you don't mind :)

Does it supress appetite like copper?
Do I need a different tank other than my observation tank to dose it in? Meaning that I wouldn't feel comfortable putting inverts in a tank that had copper in it before, even after a thorough washdown. Does CP linger like this?
I have also heard to keep it out of direct sunlight, is this also a thing?
Thank you so much! I know these questions are a little annoying but I'm trying to do my best for the fish.

Dmorty217
05/23/2016, 12:54 PM
It won't suppress the appetite of most fish, things like some wrasse, pipefish and seahorse don't do well in it, also hippo tangs. No CP won't leach out of things like copper does/can. Inverts without a exoskeleton don't survive CP but shrimp and hermits do. Direct sunlight isn't good for it, correct but I have been reading accounts of those who use it with metal halides and have tested the levels of CP without degradation, so they say... I'm trying this now with a tank to see if it's true or not. It's UV light in general

BigBlueTang
05/23/2016, 04:10 PM
It won't suppress the appetite of most fish, things like some wrasse, pipefish and seahorse don't do well in it, also hippo tangs. No CP won't leach out of things like copper does/can. Inverts without a exoskeleton don't survive CP but shrimp and hermits do. Direct sunlight isn't good for it, correct but I have been reading accounts of those who use it with metal halides and have tested the levels of CP without degradation, so they say... I'm trying this now with a tank to see if it's true or not. It's UV light in general

Wrasses don't? Gotcha.
Inverts aren't my main concern, as I don't have a place to QT them sadly. Just going to try and get them from a reputable source...
I'll move my QT to keep it out of sunlight..
How do Angels do in it? Any problems with your regals?

Dmorty217
05/24/2016, 07:49 AM
Wrasses don't? Gotcha.
Inverts aren't my main concern, as I don't have a place to QT them sadly. Just going to try and get them from a reputable source...
I'll move my QT to keep it out of sunlight..
How do Angels do in it? Any problems with your regals?

Angels are fine in it. I have a Griffis pair and a Venustus in 60mg/gallon right now and have been for 9 and 15 days. My melanarus wrasse did fine in it and with multiple treatments, but others have reported issues with Melanarus and flasher wrasse. Most fairy wrasse seem to do fine in it. Regals are fine in CP

BigBlueTang
05/24/2016, 03:33 PM
Angels are fine in it. I have a Griffis pair and a Venustus in 60mg/gallon right now and have been for 9 and 15 days. My melanarus wrasse did fine in it and with multiple treatments, but others have reported issues with Melanarus and flasher wrasse. Most fairy wrasse seem to do fine in it. Regals are fine in CP

Awesome... I'll probably order CP today! Thank you so much for your help!

Is there anything else that I should know about CP?

Dmorty217
05/24/2016, 06:16 PM
Awesome... I'll probably order CP today! Thank you so much for your help!

Is there anything else that I should know about CP?

Nothing that comes to mind. It's very gentle and effective IMO. I use it all the time, the verdict is still out on how Venustus Angels deal with 60mg/gallon for 3+ weeks

BigBlueTang
05/24/2016, 06:19 PM
Nothing that comes to mind. It's very gentle and effective IMO. I use it all the time

I trust you :)
Especially with your fish list..
What do you use to weigh it? I don't want to buy a medicinal grade scale just for fish medicine.. Seems like a long shot to convince me, let alone my parents.

Dmorty217
05/25/2016, 08:12 AM
Seachem makes a digital spoon scale that I use

krullshards
05/27/2016, 05:17 PM
I trust you :)
Especially with your fish list..
What do you use to weigh it? I don't want to buy a medicinal grade scale just for fish medicine.. Seems like a long shot to convince me, let alone my parents.

I also have the Seachem spoon scale. It measures in .1 mg increments though. I also bought this: http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

to measure in milligrams.