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trebor86
05/27/2016, 07:12 AM
I have to take down my tank to move to another location. I know there is ich in my tank right now but im trying to understand if getting rid of it now will only be a short term thing.

So if i was to keep all my fish in QT tank with copper for 6 weeks leaving no fish in my DT i know that will kill the ich in the short term but if i QT all new fish will it just come back anyway? Please forgive my ignorance on the subject i have a basic understanding of ich now but thats about it.

Breadman03
05/27/2016, 07:41 AM
I prefer tank transfer method for ich. Leave the display tank fallow for 72 days and ich will be eliminated from the display. Using TTM for any and all fish, as well as quarantining anything wet, will keep your display ich free.

trebor86
05/27/2016, 08:06 AM
Gotcha, but either way you would recommend me trying to get rid of the ich in the DT? Im getting a lot of mixed opinions locally, most of them saying that ich will always be in the tank and its not worth going this route, but i dont agree so i wanted more opinions.

Also why 72 days, everything im reading says 6-8 weeks.

tassod
05/27/2016, 08:18 AM
Also why 72 days, everything im reading says 6-8 weeks.

72 days is a very loose term used around here I find but it is not a guarantee that the strain you have will be eradicated. There are other strains of ich or other parasites in general that we know nothing about that can survive much longer than 72 days. Having said this, a fallow period is a waist of time and you are much better off nuking the tank and starting over.

trebor86
05/27/2016, 08:27 AM
Having said this, a fallow period is a waist of time and you are much better off nuking the tank and starting over.

I'm at a point where it would be pretty easy to start over, what would you recommend?

tassod
05/27/2016, 08:39 AM
I'm at a point where it would be pretty easy to start over, what would you recommend?

Run bleach through your tank for a few days then drain it and dry it out completely for at least 48hrs. Any sand should be replaced and rock should either be bleached and acid washed or replaced with dry rock. Make sure all equipment you use is also bleached and dried out. As for the fish, use TTM on all of them and then transfer them to a clean QT tank and observe for 6 weeks. I would also incorporate Prazipro treatments and Formalin dips during the TTM process.

trebor86
05/27/2016, 08:53 AM
That seems pretty extreme, you think this is better than waiting it out or just replacing all sand rock?

Deinonych
05/27/2016, 09:55 AM
If you have to take down your tank anyway, you might as well start from scratch. While the new tank is cycling, you can treat your fish using TTM to ensure ich is eliminated. Once the tank has finished cycling, you can slowly add the fish back in and never have to worry about ich again (provided you quarantine all new acquisitions).

scooter31707
05/27/2016, 10:26 AM
+1 ^^^. Also Ich is not always in the tank, it has to be introduced to the tank. So don't trust your local sources of information. Bad info given.

trebor86
05/27/2016, 10:45 AM
Is there a way to do it without running bleach through everything?

scooter31707
05/27/2016, 11:00 AM
You can break everything down make sure that everything that is wet is dried out for at least 72-96 hours. That's what I did when I first started the hobby when I got ich for the first time. No ill effects from it.

scooter31707
05/27/2016, 11:01 AM
Preferably dry out in the sun.

trebor86
05/27/2016, 11:06 AM
What about the live rock and the couple corals i have?

ThRoewer
05/27/2016, 12:43 PM
Gotcha, but either way you would recommend me trying to get rid of the ich in the DT? Im getting a lot of mixed opinions locally, most of them saying that ich will always be in the tank and its not worth going this route, but i dont agree so i wanted more opinions.

Also why 72 days, everything im reading says 6-8 weeks.

6 to 8 weeks may be sufficient in most cases, but there is at least one ich strain that can stay encysted for 72 days or possibly even more (emphasis on encysted which is why the 72 day recommendation is a few days too short to begin with - you should go at least 11 full weeks, or better 3 full months). There is a good chance that there are other ich strains that may stay even longer in a hibernation state to wait for better times.
I also have the suspicion that the long term encysted parasites of these strains can recognize by chemical signatures in the water if there is a fish nearby. Other excystment triggers may be changes in water temperature or water chemistry (oxygen, redox,...)

jbvdhp
05/27/2016, 12:55 PM
I know of a few people locally who have run fallow periods for close to 80 days, some longer and are still having issues...

Tbh, some manage it, but if you're in a position to start over and don't want to deal with it, nuking your tank seems the best way to go. I've seen a lot of frustrated reefers after going fallow for longer than the suggested time and being meticulous on TTM...


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trebor86
05/27/2016, 01:09 PM
Fair enough, i think im really looking at just starting over with my tank. i did have 1 more question and its probably a stupid one. How do i quarantine algae like chaeto that i get from a LFS?

Dmorty217
05/27/2016, 01:38 PM
Gotcha, but either way you would recommend me trying to get rid of the ich in the DT? Im getting a lot of mixed opinions locally, most of them saying that ich will always be in the tank and its not worth going this route, but i dont agree so i wanted more opinions.

Also why 72 days, everything im reading says 6-8 weeks.

There are plenty of reports of ich laying dormant for 90+ days in reef tanks, I would imagine that would apply for non reefs too. Too many reports of failures IMO to risk it

Dmorty217
05/27/2016, 01:40 PM
Fair enough, i think im really looking at just starting over with my tank. i did have 1 more question and its probably a stupid one. How do i quarantine algae like chaeto that i get from a LFS?

Same way you would if you let the tank go fallow... Fishless for as some suggested 72 days (I wouldn't trust anything short of 90)

trebor86
05/27/2016, 01:56 PM
Do most people go through that much effort to QT everything like that? Im only asking because everyone i know doesn't QT anything but they also have ich and probably worse in their tanks.

Deinonych
05/27/2016, 02:12 PM
Do most people go through that much effort to QT everything like that? Im only asking because everyone i know doesn't QT anything but they also have ich and probably worse in their tanks.

I do. Everything wet gets a full quarantine. Fish get TTM + prazi + observation, corals and other inverts get 72 days observation in a dedicated QT. I've been following this protocol for more than 2 years now and have a tank full of healthy, thriving, disease-free fish.

ExpensiveHobby
05/27/2016, 02:40 PM
I have to take down my tank to move to another location. I know there is ich in my tank right now but im trying to understand if getting rid of it now will only be a short term thing.

So if i was to keep all my fish in QT tank with copper for 6 weeks leaving no fish in my DT i know that will kill the ich in the short term but if i QT all new fish will it just come back anyway? Please forgive my ignorance on the subject i have a basic understanding of ich now but thats about it.

you are on the correct path IMO. Run the display fallow for 6 weeks while your fish are getting copper for at least a month in the QT tank. All ich in display and on the fish will be eradicated.

I dont understand why you are saying that if you QT all new fish it will just come back anyway. If you QT all new fish and run copper/prazi on them then you will never re-introduce ich in your system. You will be good to go long term as long as you dont slack on the QT'ing

trebor86
05/27/2016, 03:36 PM
I dont understand why you are saying that if you QT all new fish it will just come back anyway. If you QT all new fish and run copper/prazi on them then you will never re-introduce ich in your system. You will be good to go long term as long as you dont slack on the QT'ing

To be honest it was more me not fully understating where ich comes from.

All,
I talked things over with my wife and we both agree that nuking the tank and starting over is the best approach. I will be setting up a 40 gallon breeder for a QT tank for the fish and a 10 gallon for coral/inverts.

If anyone thinks this is not the best approach please speak up, and thanks for all the advice.

Deinonych
05/27/2016, 03:48 PM
To be honest it was more me not fully understating where ich comes from.

This should help: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

trebor86
05/28/2016, 05:51 AM
Im still having a hard time wrapping my head around how to handle invertebrates. I know the invertebrates cannot get ich but the water they are in can have it. Is there any way to dip the invertebrates in multiple tanks to get the water off or is that not an option for snails/crabs because of the shell.

Im just thinking it would be difficult to keep some of those alive in a QT for that long if there isnt enough algae/food to eat.

Deinonych
05/28/2016, 08:42 AM
Im still having a hard time wrapping my head around how to handle invertebrates. I know the invertebrates cannot get ich but the water they are in can have it. Is there any way to dip the invertebrates in multiple tanks to get the water off or is that not an option for snails/crabs because of the shell.

Im just thinking it would be difficult to keep some of those alive in a QT for that long if there isnt enough algae/food to eat.

Not really, no. The only way inverts can infect a system is by bringing in a tomont (cyst) on their shells/carapaces/skeletons. Because the cyst is impervious to chemical treatments, the only way to QT is through observation and time.

ThRoewer
05/28/2016, 10:49 AM
I would never nuke a tank with live rocks because of ich. The damage from this will always be greater than the actual benefit.

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Maritimer
05/28/2016, 07:11 PM
If you've got inverts in your tank, treat them as you do the liverock: During the fallow period, any cysts on the rock, crab-shells, sand, glass, snails, or ... wherever ... should hatch, sending theronts out hunting for fish to infect. When they don't find any fish, they'll die of starvation.

I've heard a lot of tales of failed fallow periods in this thread, but have only my own story to tell. I had ich in a 65 gallon DT - the fish who'd been there a while were OK, but any new fish contracted the disease and died rather quickly, so I made the decision to set up a QT and go fallow. All the fish were treated with chelated copper (I found ionic copper to be rather lethal to the wrasses I love :-( and TTM didn't work well for me) and Prazi-Pro, and returned to the display after about 73 days. (I'd wanted to go 76, but things started going south in the QT...) Although I still get jumpy when I see a white grain of sand or micro-bubble adhering to a fish's slime coat, so far things in my display have been going very well for the last several weeks, and I think I may just have the buggers beat.

During fallow, continue to feed your display as well as your fish - give your bacteria something to nitrify! - and look at what's going on in there! Your corals will glow and grow, your inverts will move confidently without threatening shadows from above ... and your 'pod population will go through the ceiling. That fallow period can be as fascinating (on a smaller, macro scale) as a tankful of brilliant fishes. Ich isn't magic; it's a parasitic creature, and subject to its own biology. You can beat it. Good luck!

~Bruce