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View Full Version : Testing is a major way you avoid problems. What to test after cycle?


Sk8r
05/30/2016, 08:43 AM
What to test for post-cycle:
1. alkalinity---this governs 'comfort' of the water: low alk can lead to very unhappy fish, for starters. It governs the ability of the water to dissolve things like calcium, etc, and keep it available. Keep alkalinity at about 7.9 to 9. It can go higher, but my own preference is 8.3, middle of the range, lot of wiggle room. If it drops below 7.9 on the DKH scale, fix it with an alkalinity buffer of some sort. I use Kent DKH buffer. ALk is related to ph, but don't bother chasing ph in a marine tank: it's different for marine, and alkalinity is your best gauge of water conditions.
2. salinity---range between 1.024 and 1.026 for a reef and inverts; 1.019 and 1.026 for a fish-only.
3. temperature---steady, somewhere close to 79 degrees F.
4. magnesium---a key chemical that will stabilize your alkalinity at 8.3 (given you have enough buffer in the tank) and your calcium at 420, which is a good reading. If your mg is low, you can add buffer and calcium until your pipes go gunky with no lasting improvement. If readings drop persistently, look to your mg level.
5. Note that stony corals, clams, and coralline etc, will use up calcium, so that replacing calcium becomes essential. If you are buffered to at least 8.3 and have mg set at 1350, you can just add lime (calcium) to your topoff water and have very stable readings for months on end---just keep adding more ro/di and more calcium to your topoff reservoir. Calcium in this form is referred to as 'kalk'. This stability means that, with a large enough topoff reservoir and an ATO, you can go on vacation for a month and come back to well-fed and happy corals, granted your fish are on autofeeder and are poo'ing nutrient into the water.
6. calcium reading---420 is good. 410 is too little for stony coral and clams to be happy.
7. are fish happy in reef-chemistry water? Yes. Their skins are happy with the alkalinity (which is controlling the ph) and their bones have enough calcium (though they use it far more slowly than a coral does) and their general chemistry, muscles, etc will be happy with enough magnesium... Those three situations are critical for corals, but fish are quite happy tootling about coral reefs, too. Because that chemistry situation is easy to lock and hold in place with kalked topoff, it means your whole tank chemistry can stay happy for long periods of time without your having to do anything.
8. need for a skimmer....corals are living filters, and soft and lps stony and some inverts do feed off nutrient in the water. But in our closed tanks, stuff can pile up in excess. Excess of protein waste (amino acids) can make the water unpleasant: a skimmer pulling skimmate is a good thing. This blackish soup would otherwise be in your water being nasty. If you have high nitrate and want to get it down, a better skimmer can help, but you can also increase the skimmate production of a weaker skimmer by dosing something to feed the bacteria---I use NoPox.
9. never forget to test nitrate and ammonia. Nitrate is VERY apt to build up in a system using only a filter, or sponge, and in fish-onlies in general. ANY ammonia at all is an emergency, and calls for water changes and removal of ammonia ASAp, as it is a killer, especially of fish---corals actually survive it better than fish do. But always try your best to keep your nitrate as low as possible. A coral reef would like to have nitrate nearly undetectible, faintest pink on the tests; and a fish-only would love to have it under 20 (though this is pretty hard for a fish-only to reach) At least keep chasing that goal, but fish can survive high nitrate, above 50.

Desert Sea
05/30/2016, 09:22 AM
Very nice, concise write up on water parameters. Would be nice to have as a sticky for easy future reference.

CStrickland
05/30/2016, 09:35 AM
Very nice, concise write up on water parameters. Would be nice to have as a sticky for easy future reference.

Try the "basic chemistry" section and this post http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1805742 in the SETTING UP sticky. But these mini-blogs sk8tr does are a good way to bring it to the sticky-skipping masses in small chunks.

Sk8r
05/30/2016, 09:51 AM
Feel free, too, to print off or file-copy these references, staple them together, and clip them to the backside of your stand door. That way you always have the precise numbers and emergency references close at hand.

Saltwater newby
06/02/2016, 04:38 PM
What to test for post-cycle:
1. alkalinity---this governs 'comfort' of the water: low alk can lead to very unhappy fish, for starters. It governs the ability of the water to dissolve things like calcium, etc, and keep it available. Keep alkalinity at about 7.9 to 9. It can go higher, but my own preference is 8.3, middle of the range, lot of wiggle room. If it drops below 7.9 on the DKH scale, fix it with an alkalinity buffer of some sort. I use Kent DKH buffer. ALk is related to ph, but don't bother chasing ph in a marine tank: it's different for marine, and alkalinity is your best gauge of water conditions.
2. salinity---range between 1.024 and 1.026 for a reef and inverts; 1.019 and 1.026 for a fish-only.
3. temperature---steady, somewhere close to 79 degrees F.
4. magnesium---a key chemical that will stabilize your alkalinity at 8.3 (given you have enough buffer in the tank) and your calcium at 420, which is a good reading. If your mg is low, you can add buffer and calcium until your pipes go gunky with no lasting improvement. If readings drop persistently, look to your mg level.
5. Note that stony corals, clams, and coralline etc, will use up calcium, so that replacing calcium becomes essential. If you are buffered to at least 8.3 and have mg set at 1350, you can just add lime (calcium) to your topoff water and have very stable readings for months on end---just keep adding more ro/di and more calcium to your topoff reservoir. Calcium in this form is referred to as 'kalk'. This stability means that, with a large enough topoff reservoir and an ATO, you can go on vacation for a month and come back to well-fed and happy corals, granted your fish are on autofeeder and are poo'ing nutrient into the water.
6. calcium reading---420 is good. 410 is too little for stony coral and clams to be happy.
7. are fish happy in reef-chemistry water? Yes. Their skins are happy with the alkalinity (which is controlling the ph) and their bones have enough calcium (though they use it far more slowly than a coral does) and their general chemistry, muscles, etc will be happy with enough magnesium... Those three situations are critical for corals, but fish are quite happy tootling about coral reefs, too. Because that chemistry situation is easy to lock and hold in place with kalked topoff, it means your whole tank chemistry can stay happy for long periods of time without your having to do anything.
8. need for a skimmer....corals are living filters, and soft and lps stony and some inverts do feed off nutrient in the water. But in our closed tanks, stuff can pile up in excess. Excess of protein waste (amino acids) can make the water unpleasant: a skimmer pulling skimmate is a good thing. This blackish soup would otherwise be in your water being nasty. If you have high nitrate and want to get it down, a better skimmer can help, but you can also increase the skimmate production of a weaker skimmer by dosing something to feed the bacteria---I use NoPox.
9. never forget to test nitrate and ammonia. Nitrate is VERY apt to build up in a system using only a filter, or sponge, and in fish-onlies in general. ANY ammonia at all is an emergency, and calls for water changes and removal of ammonia ASAp, as it is a killer, especially of fish---corals actually survive it better than fish do. But always try your best to keep your nitrate as low as possible. A coral reef would like to have nitrate nearly undetectible, faintest pink on the tests; and a fish-only would love to have it under 20 (though this is pretty hard for a fish-only to reach) At least keep chasing that goal, but fish can survive high nitrate, above 50.

Hello
I was fortunate enough for someone to send me the link This your post. I learned somethings reading through it. I'm trying to get my parameters stable with the use of bionic 2 part by manually dosing. I currently have 6 fish in my tank and about 5 euphyllia corals with some other LPs and zoas. My tank was doing well until my nitrates went up and my corals started to not look happy. My 15 head frogspawn has been losing lots of heads lately and only have about 5 left. My other euphyllia are not opening as much like they used to but still look good. . Please check my last post when you can and read through to see what advise you can offer me to reach good stable parameters without the use of dosing pumps since I will not have the room for it. I did start an ATS about a month ago and only exported algae once so far but nitrates are already dropping . Any advice from you would be greatly appreciated.

Sk8r
06/02/2016, 07:13 PM
If you have an ATO, you can drop 2 tsp per gallons of Mrs Wages' Pickling Lime [kalk] into your ro/di topoff and IF--you have your parameters at 1350 magnesium, 8.3 alk, and 420 calcium (achieved by hand-dosing) your automatic topoff of that kalk-laced ro/di water will hold those readings rock steady, supplying what your corals are eating, until the ro/di runs out or the magnesium falls---and magnesium falls very, very slowly. If you keep adding ro/di and kalk to the ATO reservoir, it can hold for months on end.

Also check your nitrates. Euphyllias like nitrate to be nearly undetectible.

Saltwater newby
06/02/2016, 07:59 PM
I have a Red Sea reefer 350 with 2.5 gallon auto top off. So I can get my parameters up to what you stated and add the kalk to the ro di ATO and that'll help keep everything steady? I've never heard of the kalk you recommended. I'm guessing I can find it from BRS?

I'm curious what test kit do you use for your parameters??
I use Red Sea for ALK,Ca and Mag. Salifert for phosphates and nitrate and api for Ph. Hydrometer for salinity.
Salifer for nitrates confuse me a bit since I don't have much experience with it but I usually get nitrates at 50 color on color chart
Phosphate I checked for the first time ever and I got 0.

Also, when do you recommend I dose ALK , Ca and Mag? I usually dose when lights off.

Sk8r
06/03/2016, 09:14 AM
Yes, to your question. Re Mrs. Wages, probably they stock it. If they don't, Amazon does. It's common in use in reef tanks. BRightwell also sells a kalk, but I stick with good ol' pickling lime, cheap, and no need to measure it as long as you add 'enough.' Excess falls to reservoir floor as white gunk which will dissolve as you add more fresh water. Stir only once and let it settle before turning on the ATO. Ultimately, I think reefs spend far less on Mrs. Wages than fish-onlies spend with filters. As long as you have white gunk in the bottom of the reservoir, you have enough kalk dissolved. THis miracle is exactly what goes on in the oceans: seawater at 8.3 alkalinity can ONLY dissolve 2 tsp calcium per gallon, and it won't over-saturate with it.
You DO need to cover your reservoir, because air makes it form a skin and ultimately this messes up your bottom and wastes kalk, not a problem if some gets into the tank, just wasteful. Saran wrap, or a lid with foam for a gasket, anything you can contrive. notch the foam for your hoses and cord.

I use Salifert up and down the line. I bought one of those fancy kits in a plastic box, used it, swore at it, tossed it. Salifert's easy once you get onto it.

I dose in the morning, or whenever. Just dose each element and give it 8 hours to dissolve and spread before you test.

50 is too high re nitrate. Water changes can help get it down. And NoPOX dosing will help your skimmer hype its performance. For corals you want nearly undetectible for them to really thrive and grow.

davocean
06/03/2016, 10:04 AM
One of my favorite persons in this hobby had a neat term to remember what I would consider the main things to check and keep constant, and he called it "The Big MAC" , Mag, Alk, CA.
I think those are the most important to check regularly but of course keeping an eye on others mentioned is important.
Keeping a journal is always a good idea, not only to keep track on what is going on w/ tank, but also to date any bulbs that need to be changed out to maintain proper PAR values.

Sk8r
06/03/2016, 10:43 AM
Especially jotting down your params real fast with date: plus date of any changes in the tank, new coral, light change---this subs for a super memory, in a busy life. Consult that little booklet and get a clue as to what change might have affected your current situation.

davocean
06/03/2016, 10:46 AM
Exactly, great way to trace a potential problem.

kptompk
06/03/2016, 11:04 AM
Has any one here done the diy big MAC trio? I have been dosing damp rid, baked baking soda, epsom salt. Each disolved in a fresh water solution. I have seen a big improvement in my tank. It's just softies and fish though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

davocean
06/03/2016, 11:20 AM
Has any one here done the diy big MAC trio? I have been dosing damp rid, baked baking soda, epsom salt. Each disolved in a fresh water solution. I have seen a big improvement in my tank. It's just softies and fish though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Makes me wonder if you knew Jasper who was the person that I know of that used the Big MAC term, because that is what he used and advised, he was big influence for a lot of us here in San Diego.
I have used both baked baking soda and epsom salt and they worked fine for me though at this time I prefer the Tech M and I'm using B-ionic 2 part to cover my needs.

Saltwater newby
06/04/2016, 10:11 AM
Especially jotting down your params real fast with date: plus date of any changes in the tank, new coral, light change---this subs for a super memory, in a busy life. Consult that little booklet and get a clue as to what change might have affected your current situation.
If my ca checked to be 400 and my ALK 10.8 how do I get my Ca to go up and ALK to go down? Do I add more two part or less two part?

Sk8r
06/04/2016, 10:22 AM
Two part is a mystery to me. Never have used it. Bertoni in Reef Chemistry can tell you.

The method I use is kalk, in my ato reservoir, after dosing it to good parameters. How this works with two-part is a mystery to me, but if your mg is low, given the simple system I use, your other parameters can sink, and if stony corals are eating and you're not dosing by some means, your calcium can go down fast. Ask Bertoni or Disk One.

davocean
06/04/2016, 11:37 AM
If my ca checked to be 400 and my ALK 10.8 how do I get my Ca to go up and ALK to go down? Do I add more two part or less two part?

If you add just CA your alk will go down but do it slowly

Sk8r
06/04/2016, 12:48 PM
Thanks, davocean. 2-part is the way many people go, but its ins and outs are foreign to me. ;)