Algae Mistery

[DuleTnT]

Hi guys, i am new on this site and English is not my native language so please forgive me if I write something stupid or do something wrong.

I know that there a millions of topics and texts about algae in reef tanks, but I still wish your opinion about my specific problem because I don't have any idea what's wrong and what to do.

Here is the thing I simply don't understand where my hairy algae are coming from - simply there's no reason for them to exist in my tank but they obviously exist in large amount so obviously something is wrong but I can't find a cause.

This is my system:
90 gallons display tank;
90 pounds of live rocks and 8 gallons of live coral sand bed;
30 gallons sump (with filters and live rocks);
3 power heads (950 gph) plus return sump pump 1060 gph;
Skimmer: Reef Octopus 2000 HOB (for 200 gallons tank) - hang on - working very good;
LED lights 2 x 165 Watts;

- 5 months old aquarium.

ONLY 3 SMALL FISH (Yellowtail Damselfish, small Hippo Tang baby and Banggai Cardinalfish) AND 1 CLEANER SHRIMP IN AQUARIUM ....and some corals!

I'm feeding them twice a day with frozen mysis shrimp cubes and some sea weed vegetables pallets (for hippo tang). I am very careful to give them only amount of food that they can eat right away - I am not overfeeding them for sure!

Water chemistry:

- Ammonia = 0
- Nitrite = 0
- Nitrate = 0
- Phosphates = 0.1 ppm
- Calcium = 500
- Alkalinity = 7 dKH (measured in the morning)
- PH = 8.0 (measured in the morning)


I dimmed LED lights on 60% and keeping it on for 9 hours plus one hour before and after actinic light only.
- I even started dosing Vodka two weeks ago (from this "prescription": http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php )
.....AND ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES - ALGAE STILL GROWING EVERYWHERE :angryfire:

How the hell is possible that I have algae? Where the Phosphates are coming from?
I simply can't understand. This doesn't make any sense for me!

Please, any idea?

[bertoni]

My first guess would be that too much food is entering the system. Whether the animals eat all the food or not is less important than the total quantity. What comes in, mostly comes out. With the phosphate level at 0.1 ppm, there's likely plenty of nutrients for algae. That's quite high.

[DuleTnT]

My first guess would be that too much food is entering the system. Whether the animals eat all the food or not is less important than the total quantity. What comes in, mostly comes out. With the phosphate level at 0.1 ppm, there's likely plenty of nutrients for algae. That's quite high.

I don't know, I can't believe that this little food that I'm giving them twice a day causing so much phosphates in more than 120 gallons of water. That's weird.
How much food you are giving to your animals?


By the way, I forgot to mention that I even put Phos Guard grains in my sump - and even that doesn't help.... I really don't understand. Everything else is perfect - only phosphates and algae....:headwallblue:

[Aqua Man 07]

Your rock could be leaching phosphate.

[DuleTnT]

Your rock could be leaching phosphate.

Even after 5 months? All rocks (and sand) are in the tank since day 1.
And I bought already cycled rocks 5 months ago - which means that even if they were not completely cycled in these 5 months they would be cycled million % since then.

You do understand my confusion? Everything seems perfect and problem is still there. I don't know how to identify source .

[Reef Frog]

The source seems almost academic at this point. You need to reduce the phosphates somehow and keep them down. A turf scrubber or GFO in an up flow reactor would be the ticket IMO.

Phosguard is OK but in a bag isn't likely to be of much help on a tank your size. It would be overwelmed quickly at your levels IMO.

[bertoni]

For a 29g tank, something like 1/8" cube of frozen fish food per day, or less, seems to be reasonable.

[DuleTnT]

The source seems almost academic at this point. You need to reduce the phosphates somehow and keep them down. A turf scrubber or GFO in an up flow reactor would be the ticket IMO.

Phosguard is OK but in a bag isn't likely to be of much help on a tank your size. It would be overwelmed quickly at your levels IMO.



Hmmmm I must admit that I never used turf scrubber before....
Was doing some research about it now and it seems like a pretty much long process? But definitely something I will start working on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6kA3xDPaM

I would like to know if there is any way to get rid of phosphates faster - that's why I started dosing vodka but I don't see any effect on phosphates level yet.
I'm afraid that it may have some bad effect on my corals and anemones (which are doing quite good so far).... if I don't act very fast.

The thing is that I am from Europe but living in the Caribbean now (in Trinidad actually) because my wife is from here... so I don't have much choice here.... there is only 2 places that selling stuff for reef tanks on the whole island...

This Phos Guard I bought when I was in New York two weeks ago - I bought 2 bottles 1 litre each.... I am not sure that I can find anything better here.

I put one litre of Phos Guard in the sump. What if I put all 2 litres? Would it be more effective?

[bertoni]

The media needs water force through it to bind phosphate. If it's just sitting in a bag at the bottom of the sump, it won't do anything.

One liter already is a huge amount of media. How long has it been in the tank?

[DuleTnT]

The media needs water force through it to bind phosphate. If it's just sitting in a bag at the bottom of the sump, it won't do anything.

One liter already is a huge amount of media. How long has it been in the tank?



Of course that water is going through the media.... it would be pointless differently. actually whole water is going through phos guard because it is in first part of sump together with filter.... pretty much effective sump design - water is going through area with filter, media and live rocks... and then it goes to another chamber...


I put phos guard 4 days ago.

By the way, phosphate test showed 0 today for the first time in last two weeks. I am not sure is it just for today - gonna test it again tomorrow.

[Sk8r]

I'd change the GFO media monthly until you can see a result. THe media fills up with phosphate but doesn't show any sign it's full as it can get. So changing monthly means you get more phosphate out.

[bertoni]

I agree with a monthly change. I'd also cut back on the media amount. Some like a cup or a cup and a half (250-350 ml) should be plenty. A high dose might affect corals negatively, although that's always hard to predict.

[djbon]

Same thing happened to me. Once nitrate is zero, phosphate will start leaching out from my rock. Algae everywhere. Start using phos clear w and algae stop growing. I can't stand looking at my tank with GHA waving at me. Grabbed h2o2 and start dosing it directly into the water column. After one week almost all of them are gone, whatever left over my CUC is feasting on it. Wheeew

[Dan_P]

Each cube of mysis shrimp is delivering 0.3 mg of phosphorus. If this were all excreted as phosphate, each cube would be delivering 0.9 mg of phosphate. Each day the phosphate level of a 300 liter system would rise 0.003 ppm. Two cubes per day results is a 0.006 ppm increase. In two weeks the system could accumulate about 0.1 ppm. The phosphorus excretion level is lower than 100% but the math was easier for me this way.

I saw someone suggested phosphate leaching from the rocks. If this were happening the accumulation of phosphate from food plus leaching would get your system to 0.1 ppm quicker. So, maybe you are not over feeding but leaching could make it look that way. GFO will knock this down quickly.

As for algae growth, macroalgae growth isn't limited (slowed below its maximum growth rate) until 0.01-0.02 ppm phosphate. You are supplying it plenty. Nitrate limit is less than 0.03 ppm close to test kit limits of detection. So you might be supplying plenty of nitrogen.

GFO and patience might be the way to go.

[DuleTnT]

Yes I agree with you guys.
And I must say last 3 days phosphates are undetectable, and I noticed algae in lower areas of tank are disappearing while algae in high areas getting white...

I believe I am on the road to get rid of them FINALLY.

It's a good idea to put cup or two of GFO media and then replace them monthly. As for bad influence of large amount of GFO on corals, I noticed only one coral wasn't open properly for few days.. but now even that one is opening....
(and, as I said, I put entire 1 litre bottle)

Now I am not sure how to maintain this perfect water chemistry - I will continue using GFO for sure.... but, should I continue dosing Vodka as well or slowly stop dosing it? How long is safe to dose Vodka?

[Treasure Coast]

You might want to get yourself a clean up crew. Some snails and crabs etc. if you don't have them already.

[bertoni]

Vodka is safe to dose as long as it doesn't drive the nutrient levels low enough to cause problems for corals and other organisms. Unfortunately, our test equipment is not precise or accurate enough to give us a good idea of what is happening at the lower end of the nutrient range, so watching the animals is the best way to go. A lot of people report coloration fading due to possible carbon overdosing, so I'd start there.

[DuleTnT]

You might want to get yourself a clean up crew. Some snails and crabs etc. if you don't have them already.


Actually I have one Hermit crab and one snail. To be honest I never see them because they are always hiding somewhere in the rocks hehehe.

My entire live stock is:
-Three fish so far: - Banggai Cardinalfish, Blue Hippo Tang (small), Yellowtail Damselfish (small);

- One cleaner Shrimp
- One hermit crab
- One Astrea snail
- One big Feather Duster worm (it seems it will become two very soon)
- 4 Rock Flower Anemones
- One beautiful Bubble tip anemone (it's growing really fast)
- Two bigger colonies of Xenia
- Some Mushrooms
- Three Gorgonians
- Few Zoanthid colonies
- And my favorite Fire coral (which is hated by many people in this hobby from, to me, unknown reasons - I am huge fan of fire corals)


So, as for fish, I only plan to add Clownfish and Yellow Tang.
I plan to have 5 or 6 fish in total depending if I will add one or two Clownfish.

And that is because I wish to have a perfect water quality for the corals that I plan to add in the future...
And I am not so much interested in fish only as much i am interested in all other creatures - corals, anemones, maybe clams....... little bit of everything.


That was one more reason for me to be very ****ed off because with only 3 fish I have algae infestation and phosphate problem - what would happen if I have 20 fish in tank??? :headwalls:

[DuleTnT]

Vodka is safe to dose as long as it doesn't drive the nutrient levels low enough to cause problems for corals and other organisms. Unfortunately, our test equipment is not precise or accurate enough to give us a good idea of what is happening at the lower end of the nutrient range, so watching the animals is the best way to go. A lot of people report coloration fading due to possible carbon overdosing, so I'd start there.



Hmmm I find that very tricky. Coloration fading happens because too low and too high nutrients, because of too low and too high light... it happens almost because of everything... haha pretty much confusing symptom.
Thank God, so far, i didn't notice any serious changes.

[djbon]

This beast strip off nitrate effectively, but phosphate was the main issue when it comes to nuisance algae. My tank was invaded by all sorts of algae and took me 3 weeks to get rid of them. Might add another inline tower for algae reactor soon.


352358

[DuleTnT]

An update to a problem.

90% of hairy algae is gone. Little bit of algae remained on high parts of rocks (close to the surface) but they are completely white.

But, new problem occurred last few days - some clear slimy thing floating around rocks and corals and in the sump.
It looks exactly like in this guy's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBfxeoJUjPU


I used some small power head to blow it off the rocks and corals and then used net to remove as much as possible from the water.


First thing that came to my mind was vodka dosing.
Could Vodka cause this slime bacteria, or whatever this is?

[bertoni]

Yes, vodka and other types of organic carbon dosing can cause bacterial slimes to form. I'd probably back off on the dose.

[DuleTnT]

Yes, vodka and other types of organic carbon dosing can cause bacterial slimes to form. I'd probably back off on the dose.


How much to decrease the dose?

[bertoni]

I'd probably try 20% less for a while, and see how that goes.

[DuleTnT]

I'd probably try 20% less for a while, and see how that goes.



Oh gosh! I completely overlooked one very important fact. About week ago I started adding some vitamin C in aquarium.
Completely not thinking that Vitamin C and Vodka will "work together" and overdose tank with organic carbon.
So, yeah slime is probably result of too much organic carbon.

I cut Vodka dosage this morning for 50% and slightly decreased Vitamin C. And I will see how that works.
I would love to keep them both because they provide plenty benefits for Marine life.... and also eliminate horrible hairy algae....
I just need to find a proper formula how to combine these two, but to avoid overdosing which can cause this "slimy" kind of problems. :hmm4:

Any experience on this matter?

[bertoni]

I have never needed to dose organic carbon, so I can't comment directly. I agree that vitamin C is going to add organic carbon, so cutting back on the vodka is a good idea.

[Starvin Marvin]

I would love to keep them both because they provide plenty benefits for Marine life.... and also eliminate horrible hairy algae....

I just need to find a proper formula how to combine these two, but to avoid overdosing which can cause this "slimy" kind of problems. :hmm4:



Hey, somewhat of an old Thread, but stumbled onto it and am wondering how you made out? Did you find a dose for your mixed Vit C and Vidka dosing?

What benefit were you looking for from the Vitamin C beside the carbon itself?

Do you still have any hair Algae?
What about white slime?

Current tank parameters?

Also you didn't post your magnesium levels previously. What were they? What are they now? Elevated magnesium can take care of some algae's, like bryopsis, I know this works first-hand.


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