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cubman20
06/07/2016, 10:04 PM
I was going to make a box with sand to put them in is there anothr way to do it

toothybugs
06/08/2016, 06:59 AM
You can float them in a foam sheet til they get started but I have had my best luck with a mud substrate, through sand did well too. They took a little while to get started but once settled in they took right off.

Alternatively you can start them in freshwater til they have branches and some size. Once they have some growth to them you can then very slowly move them over to saltwater. Either way.

conjuay
06/14/2016, 04:40 AM
I wonder why reefers put these things in fuges. They aren't very effective at nutrient removal. I've read a few posts by people trying to replicate a mangrove estuary, and I can see them being great for that application. But they are poor plants for nutrient removal. I've stuck a few in an overflow once so they could get some ambient light, and they grew. But I wouldn't go to great lengths to design a special chamber for them.
Just my thoughts...

Michael Hoaster
06/15/2016, 02:03 PM
I agree, conjuay. Mangroves look cool, but don't suck up nutrients as well as fast growing plants like chaeto, ulva or caulerpa. So to me, they are more appropriate for the display. Sticking them in a sump/refugium is challenging with lighting them only, and not your skimmer, etc.

ThRoewer
06/15/2016, 07:23 PM
Will mangroves actually grow in mud?

karimwassef
06/16/2016, 01:11 AM
Will mangroves actually grow in mud?

That's their natural environment, isn't it?

http://discovermagazine.com/2011/apr/21-mangrove-tree-captures-carbon-filters-saltwater-stops-storms

I have mine rooted in a caged chaeto ball in my quarantine tank. It's really more cosmetic and I like having another nutrient sink that doesn't take up any room in the water.

Also, unlike chaeto or hair algae scrubbers, they're immune to overgrowth by dinos or cyano... you're right that they're not the best scrubbers...

My favorite is this plant: Salicornia europaea
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCPBuLGscvMooU0qVR6wdLduf77iL7-ppzh6P8REHpHRFQWjMA

Here are some good articles on options

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265049924_Growth_and_nitrogen_uptake_by_Salicornia_europaea_and_Aster_tripolium_in_nutrient_conditio ns_typical_of_aquaculture_wastewater

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15921271

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4109415/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22818948

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052567/

http://home.eng.iastate.edu/~tge/ce421-521/ishadeep.pdf

and this article

http://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/6/2/836/pdf

try googling this and see what you learn: "nutrient uptake Halophytes sewage wastewater biomass"

Halopytes are plants that grow in saltwater.

I haven't found anyone else who's taking this seriously in the hobby, but sewage management is an excellent resource for learning how to process water.

karimwassef
06/16/2016, 01:15 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think this is a very pretty plant

Salicornia Dolychostachya
http://www.floralimages.co.uk/images/s/salicornia_dolichostachya_2699.jpg

Imagine mixing it up with the red variety in a little mud filter

http://www.fugleognatur.dk/images/galleri/P9300016-001.JPG

karimwassef
06/16/2016, 01:21 AM
apparently sea beans / glasswort are edible too

http://www.melissas.com/Sea-Bean-Salicornia-p/72.htm

from your tank to your kitchen :D

Weene858
06/17/2016, 07:30 PM
Lol. How awesome. Your own saltwater garden for real!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

mkengr45
06/18/2016, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't dismiss mangroves as means of effective nutrient export/uptake. I've read for years people saying they are not as effective as macros like chaeto....I've seen all the studies and experiments blah blah blah.

My experience has been that any time I add a bunch of mangroves (15 or so) my chaeto starts to disappear. This is without any change to lighting or flow for the chaeto. I've actually had the best results with mangroves. Just my experience.

Michael Hoaster
06/18/2016, 02:31 PM
Great points, mkengr45. Thanks for sharing your experience! Very interesting that they outcompete chaeto in your system.

Are you keeping them alive, long term, in a sump? It just seems like they'd be harder to light and maintain in a sump, compared to macro algae.

karimwassef
06/18/2016, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't dismiss mangroves as means of effective nutrient export/uptake. I've read for years people saying they are not as effective as macros like chaeto....I've seen all the studies and experiments blah blah blah.

My experience has been that any time I add a bunch of mangroves (15 or so) my chaeto starts to disappear. This is without any change to lighting or flow for the chaeto. I've actually had the best results with mangroves. Just my experience.

It's probably a matter of scaling. How many mangroves/feeding quantity?

Your 15 mangroves were sufficient relative to the needed nutrient export. How much did you feed?

For a tank as big as mine (~700gal total volume) and feeding regiment (4 sheets of nori per day + 6 cubes frozen + spoonfull fish pellets + coral powder food + 60ml of phyto + 60ml of restor), it might take 50 mangroves... It would be great to understand the scaling needed.

mkengr45
06/18/2016, 06:19 PM
I feed twice per day with pellets in autofeeder and feed frozen mysis and cyclops in the evening. System is ~170 gallons with schools of anthias and chromis along with a few tangs. Mostly sps with a few lps and zoas. Mangroves have been kept in sump long term...I suspend them with styrofoam so the root-ball is in the water column, no sand or substrate.

Tank is very healthy

mkengr45
06/18/2016, 06:22 PM
It's probably a matter of scaling. How many mangroves/feeding quantity?

Your 15 mangroves were sufficient relative to the needed nutrient export. How much did you feed?

For a tank as big as mine (~700gal total volume) and feeding regiment (4 sheets of nori per day + 6 cubes frozen + spoonfull fish pellets + coral powder food + 60ml of phyto + 60ml of restor), it might take 50 mangroves... It would be great to understand the scaling needed.


Holy crap that's a lot of feeding! I think it's scale thing...you'd likely need more than I do. One upside is you don't have any release back into the tank like with chaeto when it isn't tumbled. I prune by mangroves bonsai style and keep them like little bushes. I buy mine on eBay pretty cheap and never lost a single one.

karimwassef
06/18/2016, 07:13 PM
I just restarted mine

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/908E05B8-BCA1-4D79-BBA4-093275ED8B5F_zpsgolnixsb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/908E05B8-BCA1-4D79-BBA4-093275ED8B5F_zpsgolnixsb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 908E05B8-BCA1-4D79-BBA4-093275ED8B5F_zpsgolnixsb.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/D6E6889B-EE44-43CE-B348-F81522BD7420_zpscnsgmafu.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/D6E6889B-EE44-43CE-B348-F81522BD7420_zpscnsgmafu.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D6E6889B-EE44-43CE-B348-F81522BD7420_zpscnsgmafu.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/D65AF21A-8FAB-4765-A58B-5D955D40DDB3_zps9eglgmo7.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/D65AF21A-8FAB-4765-A58B-5D955D40DDB3_zps9eglgmo7.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D65AF21A-8FAB-4765-A58B-5D955D40DDB3_zps9eglgmo7.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/A727DC86-F57B-44ED-8626-5E86334258F0_zpsp4grsbvy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/A727DC86-F57B-44ED-8626-5E86334258F0_zpsp4grsbvy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo A727DC86-F57B-44ED-8626-5E86334258F0_zpsp4grsbvy.jpg"/></a>

That's all in my quarantine tank. Here's the main tank for contrast
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6nu7GEiYumA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Theokie
06/21/2016, 08:48 AM
That's their natural environment, isn't it?

http://discovermagazine.com/2011/apr/21-mangrove-tree-captures-carbon-filters-saltwater-stops-storms

I have mine rooted in a caged chaeto ball in my quarantine tank. It's really more cosmetic and I like having another nutrient sink that doesn't take up any room in the water.

Also, unlike chaeto or hair algae scrubbers, they're immune to overgrowth by dinos or cyano... you're right that they're not the best scrubbers...

My favorite is this plant: Salicornia europaea
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCPBuLGscvMooU0qVR6wdLduf77iL7-ppzh6P8REHpHRFQWjMA

Here are some good articles on options

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265049924_Growth_and_nitrogen_uptake_by_Salicornia_europaea_and_Aster_tripolium_in_nutrient_conditio ns_typical_of_aquaculture_wastewater

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15921271

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4109415/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22818948

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052567/

http://home.eng.iastate.edu/~tge/ce421-521/ishadeep.pdf

and this article

http://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/6/2/836/pdf

try googling this and see what you learn: "nutrient uptake Halophytes sewage wastewater biomass"

Halopytes are plants that grow in saltwater.

I haven't found anyone else who's taking this seriously in the hobby, but sewage management is an excellent resource for learning how to process water.

You can also look into Sea Purslane, after seeing a thread on giving it a try last fall I purchased some from the US.... After much trial and error I finally found a spot in my system that a spring likes and it is growing well. Again like Mangroves its not a fast growing plant for me, so its going to be more cosmetic then anything, but I like my plants.

Thanks for posting those articles it will give me a few other species of plants I can try and track down and give them a try.

From what I have observed my Sea Purslane needs very high light... like sitting 4" from a 4 bulb T5, in order to thrive

karimwassef
06/21/2016, 09:35 AM
Got pics?
I'm going to try glasswort in my tank under halides - would love to compare notes on sea purslane.

karimwassef
06/21/2016, 09:37 AM
A garden of purslane, glasswort and mangroves!! Oh my!