Age for dragonets

[Natalya]

Have a nice day, everybody.
I've got 4 dragonets: 1 female and 3 males. Female is Synchiropus stellatus, males are Synchiropus ocellatus and 2 Synchiropus stellatus.

I'm very interesting: how long live such dragonets usually? I mean in home aquarium with good food and without predators and aggressive rivals. I think it's about 3 years.
Who will point more...?
Please, I'm looking forward some words about your expirience..

[ThRoewer]

S. splendidus gets up to 15 years old in the wild.
With proper care they should live about as long if not longer in captivity where they have not to fear predators.

[starkii]

S. splendidus gets up to 15 years old in the wild.
With proper care they should live about as long if not longer in captivity where they have not to fear predators.

Really? Not doubting your figure but it just seems much higher than I would have thought. Was that a general figure for the species as I would have thought haremetic (is that a word) fish would tire themselves out quicker, so females live a little longer in this case.

[OrionN]

Clown fish live 20+ years under good care.
As far as I know, mandarin S. splendidus, do not form harem. They are born male or female and do not change sex.

[Joke]

Clown fish live 20+ years under good care.
As far as I know, mandarin S. splendidus, do not form harem. They are born male or female and do not change sex.

So what are you saying?

[OrionN]

Mandarin does not form harem and that there is no reason they cannot live long live. We often equate small fish with shot life span which is not always true

[Natalya]

Thank you everybody, but I would like information about my kind of dragonets...

Dear ThRoewer, thank you for the interesting information.
It seems true that my dragonets would be got up to 15 years old as S. splendidus. But..

According to my humble expirience, dragonet 3 years old is not young. He(or she :)) less moves around. Less eats. And IF he (or she) faces aggressive another dragonets situation becomes tragical.

The young of Youthes S.Stellatus (Red Dragonets) is very aggressive as a rule. They oppressed older dragonets in aquarium. It led to die my Older Dragonets when they were 3 years old (twice). In the first case it was Brown Dragonet and Red Dragonet (males). In the second case (today) it was Female Red Dragonet. The reason of death was aggressive rival (independent of gender) in each case.

That's why I would be find out really my dragonets were old or no.

[OrionN]

I have had young S. splendidus that was about 1 inch when I first got him and he was about 10 when I moved and lost him in a move. He was good size at 10 years, but not the largest mandarin I have seen for sure.

[MondoBongo]

my mandy has been with me for 3 years at this point, and she is still just as active as the day i got her.

ThRoewer is spot on with all the ages i have seen put forth for dragonets. 10 - 15 years in the wild.

it can be difficult to tell what age your dragonet was when you took possession of it. mine has grown some in the three years since i have had her, maybe she was younger, but as of yet i'm not aware of any way to calculate their age, unless they were captive bred on a known date.

[OrionN]

I think the size of the fish can indicate that she/he is young or not.

[MondoBongo]

I think the size of the fish can indicate that she/he is young or not.

my question about that is: when do they stop growing?

if you have one of adult size that doesn't grow, is that a good indication of a particular age? do they all share the same growth rates?

[OrionN]

I always go for the smallest fish I can get, especially Mandarin. You need the male to be larger than female or else she will chase and beat him up.

[ThRoewer]

Fish never stop growing, they just show down to a crawl.

I posted the findings of an age study on angelfish species, and the largest of the investigated species (P. sextriatus) was found to get up to 60 years old in the wild.
The smallest investigated species (C. loricula) was found to get up to 8 years in the wild.
Size is not the only factor, but also lifestyle and activity levels. A tiny turtle can outlive an elephant.

Another factor is temperature - fish that live in colder waters can often get quite a bit older than comparable species in tropical waters.

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[Moort82]

Clown fish live 20+ years under good care.
As far as I know, mandarin S. splendidus, do not form harem. They are born male or female and do not change sex.

I'm sorry but don't understand what sex change has to do with it. Mandarins also form harems or loose aggregations where a male patrols a territory of females and breeds with them all. This maybe why starkii is suggesting the male might live shorter in that he may breed several times a day with his ladies but they in turn might only spawn every few days or less. Breeding can take a lot out of fish and that's before you take into account the energy exerted in defending their patch.

[OrionN]

I'm sorry but don't understand what sex change has to do with it. Mandarins also form harems or loose aggregations where a male patrols a territory of females and breeds with them all. This maybe why starkii is suggesting the male might live shorter in that he may breed several times a day with his ladies but they in turn might only spawn every few days or less. Breeding can take a lot out of fish and that's before you take into account the energy exerted in defending their patch.
Normally when you have a male with a harem of female, there is sex change involved. The ration of females to males is a lot higher than 50/50. That is why I mention there is no sex change in Mandarin.

I am not sure about the wild, but for my tank I only keep pair of S. splendidus. One male and one female and they spawn almost every day. Anyone have more than a pair of S. splendidus in a tank?

I can certainly see extra energy spend in courting female and defending territory. My shoal of Lyetail Anthias, it is the male that keep on dying. Spend to much time worrying about the female and breeding rather than eating. My Mandarin, however, continue to be fat, breeding and lived for 10 years under my care until disaster strike in moving and I lost him.

[ThRoewer]

I'm sorry but don't understand what sex change has to do with it. Mandarins also form harems or loose aggregations where a male patrols a territory of females and breeds with them all. This maybe why starkii is suggesting the male might live shorter in that he may breed several times a day with his ladies but they in turn might only spawn every few days or less. Breeding can take a lot out of fish and that's before you take into account the energy exerted in defending their patch.

Mandarins don't form harems. The males occupy and defend a certain territory in which they do not tolerate other males. The females just roam around and spawn with whichever male they are impressed by. But there is no grouping or bonding like you have with damsels, angels or anthias.
In that regard they are more like many blennies.

A male that constantly has to keep a bunch of females in check may wear out faster. Though in harem groups of sex changing fish the males are usually the oldest fish. Once the male dies or gets eaten by a predator the next largest/oldest female become the male. So in general, all females of a group are younger than the dominant male.
With many fish it isn't so much the wear out that gets the males killed but rather their exposure which makes it more likely for a male to be picked off by a predator.

[ThRoewer]

Normally when you have a male with a harem of female, there is sex change involved. The ration of females to males is a lot higher than 50/50. That is why I mention there is no sex change in Mandarin.

I am not sure about the wild, but for my tank I only keep pair of S. splendidus. One male and one female and they spawn almost every day. Anyone have more than a pair of S. splendidus in a tank?

I can certainly see extra energy spend in courting female and defending territory. My shoal of Lyetail Anthias, it is the male that keep on dying. Spend to much time worrying about the female and breeding rather than eating. My Mandarin, however, continue to be fat, breeding and lived for 10 years under my care until disaster strike in moving and I lost him.

I plan to add a second female to my 100 gallon tank.

From my observation it is the female that has to spend more energy: she has to produce eggs every day. Of my "pair" the male has grown significantly while the female has added far less length since I got them.

[block head]

Mine was 7 yrs at least when purchased. Did another 1.5 yrs stopped eating/ passed. Green mandarin spent 7yrs in a seahorse tank before I bought it

[Joke]

Mandarin does not form harem and that there is no reason they cannot live long live. We often equate small fish with shot life span which is not always true

Gotcha

[Natalya]

A lot of thanks for such interesting information everybody!

Almost all my dragonets (6) arrived to my tank approximately 1 inch size (from 2013 year).

Last case was the next.
There was 1 female dragonet 2 inch size and 2.9 years old in my tank. I bought male about 1.5 inch size 1.5 month ago ( for her happy life).
when he arrived, at first he suggested her ...spawning. But instead of spawning she was driving him away during 1 month. After that he was growing up and since couple day ago started beat her, drive her away(without any suggestion of love... spawning!). He was more agressive and drove her away longer than she was driving him away. And yesterday she passed. She was fat as usually. But she couldn't stay alive with such agressive young dragonet.

[ThRoewer]

For Callionymus filamentosus the maximum age was found to be 5+ years:

Age, growth and mortality of the Red Sea invasive blotchfin dragonet, Callionymus filamentosus Valenciennes, 1837 from the Northeastern Mediterranean, Turkey (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Deniz_Ergueden/publication/285421196_Age_growth_and_mortality_of_the_Red_Sea's_invasive_blotchfin_dragonet_Callionymus_filament osus_Valenciennes_1837_from_the_Northeastern_Mediterranean_Turkey/links/56711c3408ae5252e6f3d587.pdf) (Full PDF)

[Moort82]

Mandarins don't form harems. The males occupy and defend a certain territory in which they do not tolerate other males. The females just roam around and spawn with whichever male they are impressed by. But there is no grouping or bonding like you have with damsels, angels or anthias.
In that regard they are more like many blennies.



That same observation has been found with lyretail anthias where a male essentially patrols a defined territory and all the females within it are his, some may move and other come (think average was 9-11) but there was movement. This was reported over the whole wall of anthias with their close proximity. So I don't see how that is different to the mandarin example using the definition of a harem as "a group of female animals sharing a single mate" which doesn't imply there needs to be a bond or it needs to be a fixed group.

[ThRoewer]

For once, Anthias are engaged in a permanent power struggle. The males constantly have to keep the females in line to maintain their status and prevent females from turning into males.
At the same time they also have constantly to defend their spot on the wall against other males.

Mandarin males don't have that problem. In fact, during the day they go about their own business and largely ignore the females. Only at dusk they join the bar scene and start going after females to mate with.
There is not too much stress involved, not even in chasing off the competition.

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[Natalya]

ThRoewer, thanks a lot for refrence!