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Chasedenver
07/15/2016, 05:24 PM
Hello! My name is Kenya, and I've joined because my go to forum for freshwater (fish lore) definitely has a slower salty section. When I am ready to start up the tank I will likely open a new thread to help with stocking, but for now I'm looking for input, general advice, etc.
Let my start by telling y'all a little bit about myself and my experience. I started working at PetSmart at 19 years old and started getting into aquariums. The training was not in depth and I took it upon myself to learn the BASICS, like how to cycle a tank. Though I did over stock and under filter, not knowing to look at GPH or doing more research on each fish. I also failed with live plants because the box on the Floramax bulb promised good plant growth. I kept many bettas, had mollies and such, and had an axolotl tank. Though I did weekly water changes I didn't realize the axie tank was also under filtered and that strip tests weren't very accurate, and struggled with keeping it clean. When I moved here (Las Vegas, NV) from Florida, I was relieved to sell off my tanks and not have to fight with ugly, not too clean tanks.
Years later, I ended up becoming the department manager at Petco who also covers the aquarium section. With my inability to grow plants easily in the desert, I decided to start up a modest tank with aquarium plants because I missed foliage. I started with a 29, researched like mad, and became 100% addicted. I have four planted tanks now.
3.7 gallon nano with my mom's betta.
5.5 gallon nano with micro crabs, horned nerites, and dwarf neo shrimp in blue pearl.
10 gallon nano with red cherry neos, a zebra nerite, and my koi plakat betta.
And my 85 gallon community. Home to Amano shrimp, nerite and rabbit snails, bristlenose plecos, angelfish, C. Sajica cichlids, Rainbow fish, thicklipped gourami, a big school of Harlequin Rasbora, etc. This tank is my absolute joy to play with. It's predrilled and has a wet dry where I've got a UV filter and my heater, heater is plugged into a controller, and sump is fed with glutaraldehyde, comprehensive ferts, and trace minerals with the help of a Jebao dosing pump. I have two LED fixtures on timers. I LOVE this tank.

And yet, now I need a new challenge. Enter, obsessive research of a beginner reef tank. I've settled on a 40 breeder as I'm less concerned with fish and more wanting to focus on a shorter tank to better light the corals. I like softies and SPS which is good because they're also easier and more forgiving to start with.

There are a few little things that I've picked up if I found a great price (thanks Amazon Prime day!)

First thing is a light fixture. Need to know if I will need to heavily supplement or if having it lower will mostly be sufficient. I'm familiar with lighting to a degree but it's a whole different ballgame on the salty side.
Galaxyhydro Led 55x3w Dimmable 165w Full Spectrum LED Aquarium Light for Reef Coral & Fish ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INM0J1M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_JqwIxbY08R81J )
Decent reviews, and between the sale and a gift card I had, it was free. I also have a new Fluval fixture that was given to me but it's hiding in the garage somewhere, so once I dig it out I'll share the model and size.

I've also purchased the saltwater and reef master kits and a bottle of BioSpira just to help when I am cycling or add my first livestock.

Which leads to my next question, I'm sure the concept of cycling is pretty much the same but I need to know the parameters if I'm dosing with straight ammonia, if the guidelines differ.
I also need advice about starting with dry rock versus live. The big advantage of dry rock is the price point and pest avoidance, though it seems like I'll get most of the pests as hitchhiker's eventually. To give an idea, locally, Fiji rock that is live would run me about $5/lb, so at least $200 total.
I was thinking of this Key Largo rock, which appeals to the environmentally conscious part, the native Floridian part, and the wallet conscious parts of me all at once.
http://marcorocks.shopgate.com/item/3739
50 lbs for $109 before tax or any promos.

Also thinking Spectrapure refurbished 90 GPD for RODI instead of buying water at my LFS and lugging it back and forth. I'm a single mom who doesn't have a ton of free time. Or muscles. Haha.
http://spectrapure.com/Refurbished-90-GPD-RODI-System
Thoughts? What spare filters and membranes and such should I buy? Any upgrades I should invest in right away or can I run it as is initially? I will probably get this next so I can figure it out before I depend on it. We have very hard water in Vegas, so I look forward to using RODI water for top off between PWCs.
I'll also be getting a TDS meter.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01EFZ54E2/ref=aw_wl_ov_dp_2_2?colid=1GYHBIQ81OHBJ&coliid=I14YW598DOC2WE

And refractometer.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005ES6MOQ/ref=aw_wl_ov_dp_1_14?colid=1GYHBIQ81OHBJ&coliid=I2B55B4856XOPK

I was also thinking of using the Reef Crystal salt, it just seems a little more foolproof for a newbie. Probably will also have Purigen and PhosGaurd, as I already love Seachem products and use prime exclusively for dechlor.

I need good quality, but reasonably priced options for a skimmer, refugium equipment, and circulation fans or power heads. Was going to do a very thin layer of live sand just in the areas the rock and corals don't touch.
And that's plenty more than any of you wanted to read to begin with, thanks so much for making it this far, haha.
I will do some more reading now, but personal experience is really important to me when I'm selecting equipment.

If anyone can give me advice or input on even one of these pieces of equipment or even just tips and tricks they wish they had known when they started, it would be vastly appreciated. I want to do this the right way!

-Kenya

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linkedsilas
07/15/2016, 06:55 PM
Read up on chemistry.
I underestimated how often I would have to go to the lfs to get Ro/di
I thought I could go get my water out of the purifying machines at the store but didn't take into consideration what plumbing they may use or how often its serviced. I ended up buying my own system.

gone fishin
07/15/2016, 07:04 PM
Welcome to the forum. I don't know if you made a typo but SPS coral are usually the more demanding coral to keep.

As far as equipment you listed I am not familiar with those LED's, The RO/DI from spectra pur is a good choice. I use reef crystals myself for years. Skimmers and powerheads IMO are a get what you pay for type of thing.

There is a sticky at the top of the forum called "setting up", look for the big red arrow, it is full of good info. So of it will know already.

The one piece of advice that I can give at this point is to figure out what you want to keep then buy the equipment for it. Since you mentioned SPS Coral these will require more intense lighting, flow and skimming IMO. So you may be better served to save up and buy quality items the first time around. Good luck just my 2 cents.

Chasedenver
07/16/2016, 06:07 AM
Read up on chemistry.
I underestimated how often I would have to go to the lfs to get Ro/di
I thought I could go get my water out of the purifying machines at the store but didn't take into consideration what plumbing they may use or how often its serviced. I ended up buying my own system.
Yeah, I have zero interest in fooling around with the water, nor trusting the store to give me good water. Hence wanting to just get my own RODI immediately.
I've got a lot more to learn about the differences in chemistry and will be sure to do that. Thanks

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Chasedenver
07/16/2016, 06:13 AM
Welcome to the forum. I don't know if you made a typo but SPS coral are usually the more demanding coral to keep.

As far as equipment you listed I am not familiar with those LED's, The RO/DI from spectra pur is a good choice. I use reef crystals myself for years. Skimmers and powerheads IMO are a get what you pay for type of thing.

There is a sticky at the top of the forum called "setting up", look for the big red arrow, it is full of good info. So of it will know already.

The one piece of advice that I can give at this point is to figure out what you want to keep then buy the equipment for it. Since you mentioned SPS Coral these will require more intense lighting, flow and skimming IMO. So you may be better served to save up and buy quality items the first time around. Good luck just my 2 cents.
Doh! I definitely meant LPS. Can I edit my original post using the Tapatalk app? Navigating is a bit different than Fishlore.

As far as needing help with skimmers and power heads, I dont mind saving up for good equipment. But I work in the pet industry and know that not everything that comes with a high price tag is worth what you're paying. I like that everyone seems pretty satisfied with the Reef Octopus line but how do I know which size to get if DT and sump combined hold maybe 60 gallons of water? How do I know how much combined horsepower on pumps will give me the appropriate flow for softies and LPS? There seem to be far fewer strict guidelines for saltwater, which is actually kind of nice. But for a newbie who doesn't want to buy the wrong things, it can be slightly daunting. I'll see if I can't find the threads you're talking about, I appreciate your help.

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SFish
07/16/2016, 06:27 AM
On the skimmer I'd go in the 100 to 120 range (where it says heavy Bio load). As far as flow you also have to take your return pump into account as I would run a sump.

Timfish
07/16/2016, 07:50 AM
Welcome to reefs and Reefcentral! There's tons of research out there in case you haven't noticed! :D
One book I would strongly encourage you to read is Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" It's a fairly cheap (ebook is $10), very readable introduction to more recent research on reefs and how nutrients and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) impact corals.

Another series of articles I would suggest to get a better idea of how GAC, TOC and skimmers impact reef aquariums are:

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

Total Organic Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Skimmate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

A couple additional points: One is research not only each individual coral species but each individual colony if possible. The terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softie" are colloquial terms and have no relevance to husbandry requirements, additionally corals have memories and two different colonies of the same species may react differently when introduced to the same conditions.

The nitrogen cycle is very complex in reef systems. it's not a simple loop as presented in freshwater or fish only systems. Healthy corals are autotrophs and are pulling ammonia, urea, amino acids and nitrates from the water to meet their nitrogen needs, completely bypassing the basic nitrification loop typically presented. I consider them the central part of the filtration and not part of the bioload like fish and many other inverts are. And phosphate is a limiting nutrient for corals to utilize nitrates, it's not the poison as presented by some.

Happy Reefing!

Chasedenver
07/17/2016, 01:38 PM
On the skimmer I'd go in the 100 to 120 range (where it says heavy Bio load). As far as flow you also have to take your return pump into account as I would run a sump.
I'm definitely going to run a sump. I'm thinking a 20 gallon long. I want to build in a refugium and house the skimmer and heater. I think it will be tight but I need to leave space to work in the stand. If I have to rip things apart to access them for maintenance I fear they won't receive enough attention. With my old 55 gallon fresh, I bought a premade wet dry that had an overflow box and it was advised to get around 1,000 GPH return pump. I did add a ball valve to that to adjust flow. When everything moved into the 85 gallon, I had that tank predrilled and have still had the water level steady.
On one hand I figure I could buy a similarly sized pump and just adjust the flow with a valve, but on the other I don't want to buy a pump that's too powerful, run it at 50%, and burn out the motor too quickly by over limiting the flow. Is that crazy talk or am I onto something? Haha.
Thanks for the guidance on skimmers. I'm going to read the links posted after your comment and then start comparing my options.

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Chasedenver
07/17/2016, 01:42 PM
Welcome to reefs and Reefcentral! There's tons of research out there in case you haven't noticed! :D
One book I would strongly encourage you to read is Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" It's a fairly cheap (ebook is $10), very readable introduction to more recent research on reefs and how nutrients and DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbon) impact corals.

Another series of articles I would suggest to get a better idea of how GAC, TOC and skimmers impact reef aquariums are:

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

Total Organic Carbon Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Skimmate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

A couple additional points: One is research not only each individual coral species but each individual colony if possible. The terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softie" are colloquial terms and have no relevance to husbandry requirements, additionally corals have memories and two different colonies of the same species may react differently when introduced to the same conditions.

The nitrogen cycle is very complex in reef systems. it's not a simple loop as presented in freshwater or fish only systems. Healthy corals are autotrophs and are pulling ammonia, urea, amino acids and nitrates from the water to meet their nitrogen needs, completely bypassing the basic nitrification loop typically presented. I consider them the central part of the filtration and not part of the bioload like fish and many other inverts are. And phosphate is a limiting nutrient for corals to utilize nitrates, it's not the poison as presented by some.

Happy Reefing!
You. Are. Amazing. I found the stickies and have been reading non stop for days. But these are going to be extremely helpful, thank you!

On a side note, found another potential place to buy rock from.

http://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/florida-reef-rock-50lbs-free-shipping

$90 pre tax for a 50 lb box, also from Florida and also mined in an environmentally friendly manner. I'm leaning more towards dry rock because I can really take my time while scaping it. I might add a small piece of nice live rock later to introduce some critters, but I'm not entirely sure. Off to do more reading, haha.

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SFish
07/17/2016, 02:29 PM
A 20 long is going to be tight for a skimmer. There are also external skimmers. In any case you're probably going to want a space saver skimmer. I would wait for Petco's $/gal sale and pick up a tank and make that into your sump otherwise your looking at spending a few $100s on a glorified tank. The pump size really depends on how much stuff you want to run and your piping. 90s will kill your flow big time. Keep in mind if you over size the pump a bit you can dial it down but if you under size it you will have have to buy another pump. You could also look at DC pumps which are controllable.

SFish
07/17/2016, 02:35 PM
The proper way to dial a return pump down is like this.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/0ABD9A23-BC9A-42AE-9499-F1AEEAB62807_zpsbugxqwl4.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/0ABD9A23-BC9A-42AE-9499-F1AEEAB62807_zpsbugxqwl4.jpg.html)

Chasedenver
07/17/2016, 10:18 PM
So if space is limited inside the sump should I consider a hang on the back to attach to the side of the sump? Is there a significant difference between efficiency?

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SFish
07/18/2016, 06:49 AM
So if space is limited inside the sump should I consider a hang on the back to attach to the side of the sump? Is there a significant difference between efficiency?

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An external skimmer is not the same as a HOB skimmer. If you can't find a skimmer that will fit then I would look at external skimmers but I would try to find one that will fit first unless you want to open up the sump more.

Chasedenver
07/18/2016, 11:43 AM
An external skimmer is not the same as a HOB skimmer. If you can't find a skimmer that will fit then I would look at external skimmers but I would try to find one that will fit first unless you want to open up the sump more.
Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll look into it. I haven't seen any local shops that sell the Reef Octopus which is kind of what I'm leaning towards. I wish I could see it in the tank. I might have to put together the sump using cardboard where I'd place baffles and make a model of the equipment. I wanted to make sure to leave enough space for a refugium. I guess I could find a way to use a HOB or something along those lines to allow more space for the skimmer.
Any opinions on the space saver one by Reef Octopus for 110 gallons?

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SFish
07/18/2016, 05:45 PM
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/F0C42999-0C41-42EA-970B-D29A19EFA406_zpsiybld7db.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/F0C42999-0C41-42EA-970B-D29A19EFA406_zpsiybld7db.jpg.html)

SFish
07/18/2016, 05:57 PM
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/ADE8DECA-644E-40AB-8C6C-9CD49BC527A8_zpsqghgthrt.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/ADE8DECA-644E-40AB-8C6C-9CD49BC527A8_zpsqghgthrt.png.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/0CA5EBE3-A62A-4993-93F7-07DAEAE71255_zpsmlw2zyv2.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/0CA5EBE3-A62A-4993-93F7-07DAEAE71255_zpsmlw2zyv2.jpeg.html)

SFish
07/18/2016, 06:03 PM
Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll look into it. I haven't seen any local shops that sell the Reef Octopus which is kind of what I'm leaning towards. I wish I could see it in the tank. I might have to put together the sump using cardboard where I'd place baffles and make a model of the equipment. I wanted to make sure to leave enough space for a refugium. I guess I could find a way to use a HOB or something along those lines to allow more space for the skimmer.
Any opinions on the space saver one by Reef Octopus for 110 gallons?

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You wont find good skimmers in LFS. I wouldn't run a HOB and another skimmer together as that would be a waste of money.

Chasedenver
07/18/2016, 08:16 PM
You wont find good skimmers in LFS. I wouldn't run a HOB and another skimmer together as that would be a waste of money.
Thanks for the pictures and recommendation! I meant a HOB power filter being utilized as a little refugium, or maybe just taking the plunge on a hang on refugium that holds a gallon or so. I really like the idea of natural filtration and especially like the idea of having a breeding area for pods and other critters.

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SFish
07/18/2016, 08:22 PM
I would go with the sump. HOBs look ugly. A HOB filter will make a lot of noise and you will have salt spray all over the top of your tank. By the way that tank in the pic is a 20 long.

Chasedenver
07/18/2016, 09:13 PM
I would go with the sump. HOBs look ugly. A HOB filter will make a lot of noise and you will have salt spray all over the top of your tank. By the way that tank in the pic is a 20 long.
I am. I'm just wondering if I'll have space IN the sump once I put the skimmer, heater, and dosing pump in. If not, I'm considering attaching a HOB refugium to the sump. Sump is a must, I hate looking at too much equipment and it's easier to keep my little one out of stuff if it's closed up underneath.
The picture you posted was really helpful, I think I'd have space in the center for some macroalgae. Do you use a baffle to have a refugium towards the front or back to break up the flow? I've seen some designed in such a way but admittedly don't understand the reasoning.

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SFish
07/18/2016, 09:18 PM
Baffles set your water height. Some people put the return in the middle to get a bigger return area which helps with evaporation. Like this

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/A7F48E4A-A69E-4B05-85F5-844D01F26BC0.png_zpskiswcuuu.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/A7F48E4A-A69E-4B05-85F5-844D01F26BC0.png_zpskiswcuuu.jpeg.html)

Chasedenver
07/18/2016, 10:09 PM
Baffles set your water height. Some people put the return in the middle to get a bigger return area which helps with evaporation. Like this

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/A7F48E4A-A69E-4B05-85F5-844D01F26BC0.png_zpskiswcuuu.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/A7F48E4A-A69E-4B05-85F5-844D01F26BC0.png_zpskiswcuuu.jpeg.html)
Huh, that's not a bad idea. Then I can keep lighting isolated to the one side and hopefully not get too much algae growth in the main parts of the sump.
How do I know how to set up baffles for specific heights? Like if I need no less than 8" for the skimmer? I was going to buy a kit and install it into a 20 gallon long myself. But I'm open to just making my own baffles and everything if I can come up with a dependable plan. I work at Petco so a 20 gallon with my discount during the DPG sale is pretty dang cheap.

Btw, I REALLY greatly appreciate the time you're taking with me. There's a huge learning curve and though I know one day I'll look back and it'll just seem like common sense, I'll admit it's a bit daunting in the beginning.

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SFish
07/19/2016, 06:48 AM
I think both setups for a sump are fine. The chamber where you put the skimmer I would set the height according to how deep the skimmer has to sit in water. See at the bottom of the pic it says 8" to 9.5"? I would go a little bit less as the water is going to be a little bit higher then the baffle so you could go 8". You can go higher if you raise the skimmer up by putting it on something like egg crate. The other two baffles are really up to you as far as height. You don't want to go to high because if the power goes out some of the water is going to go back in the sump. The easiest thing to do as far as the baffles are concerned is find a local glass shop and have them cut them for you. I waited for your $/gal sale and picked up a 20 long for $20 and spent $30 on the glass. As far as height I made it simple and went with the same height on all the glass. Don't forget the bubble trap. I would go a few inches away from the skimmer for that chamber and the other two are really up to you. I just split what was left space wise to make it easy. You can mark on the outside of the tank where you want the baffles. That will help set them in place.

Chasedenver
07/19/2016, 11:12 AM
I think both setups for a sump are fine. The chamber where you put the skimmer I would set the height according to how deep the skimmer has to sit in water. See at the bottom of the pic it says 8" to 9.5"? I would go a little bit less as the water is going to be a little bit higher then the baffle so you could go 8". You can go higher if you raise the skimmer up by putting it on something like egg crate. The other two baffles are really up to you as far as height. You don't want to go to high because if the power goes out some of the water is going to go back in the sump. The easiest thing to do as far as the baffles are concerned is find a local glass shop and have them cut them for you. I waited for your $/gal sale and picked up a 20 long for $20 and spent $30 on the glass. As far as height I made it simple and went with the same height on all the glass. Don't forget the bubble trap. I would go a few inches away from the skimmer for that chamber and the other two are really up to you. I just split what was left space wise to make it easy. You can mark on the outside of the tank where you want the baffles. That will help set them in place.
Okay, awesome. I can definitely do that. I will probably mark the sides or use cardboard and post here before I out it together to make sure everything is correct. So in a previous picture you posted about how to properly control flow on the return pump it featured a tee that drains excess water right back into the chamber with the return pump. In theory, if my skimmer is to the left, return in the center, and fuge to the right, can I have it set like that and have the water flow into the fuge section? I've been reading a little bit about the Herbie method overflow, still have to read more and read about beananimal too. Anyway, it was mentioned that 1" drain pipe could safely handle around 330 GPH and that I can (obviously) increase flow in the DT with power heads and such so that I don't need to have so much flow going through the sump in case of clogs in the main siphon line. So, based on that, in theory, I could have the return pump be around 400 GPH (more?) and tee it off so the excess feeds into the fuge? Or does that just complicate things? Haha.
The plumbing is where I have to do a lot of learning!
Also, really dumb question. Which chamber does the intake for the sump go to? I was going to use filter socks when I was thinking of buying a sump kit and it comes with two holders to slide the socks into. How do I attach them in a DIY sump and will I have space to put them in the same chamber as the skimmer?

Even more stupid question, when you see tanks that have a circulation pump where the fan part is in the tank and the motor is on the other side, is that drilled and installed or is it mag driven?

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SFish
07/19/2016, 06:39 PM
So in a previous picture you posted about how to properly control flow on the return pump it featured a tee that drains excess water right back into the chamber with the return pump. In theory, if my skimmer is to the left, return in the center, and fuge to the right, can I have it set like that and have the water flow into the fuge section?

I would have the water flow to the skimmer section as that's where I would put the bubble trap after. I should also add this is only need for an AC pump as DC pumps are controllable.

SFish
07/19/2016, 06:52 PM
I've been reading a little bit about the Herbie method overflow, still have to read more and read about beananimal too. Anyway, it was mentioned that 1" drain pipe could safely handle around 330 GPH

I know these are really good set ups but I couldn't tell you much about them so I'll leave that one for someone else. My over flow is a different style.

SFish
07/19/2016, 07:07 PM
the DT with power heads and such so that I don't need to have so much flow going through the sump in case of clogs in the main siphon line. So, based on that, in theory, I could have the return pump be around 400 GPH (more?) and tee it off so the excess feeds into the fuge? Or does that just complicate things? Haha.


The flow through the sump after head loss should be around 5x the total volume (DT+Sump). If you want to run a reactor and or other things then I would get a stronger / larger pump. The flow in the DT tank depends on the type of corals you want to keep which is done with power heads. Think of the sump as your filter so your return pump is not there to provide your tank with flow that is the job of your power heads. Your return pump size depends on how high the water has to go up and if you use PVC then the diameter and number of 90's and 45's.

For example if you look at this chart you can see how height effects flow

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/A2AE878C-8892-416A-B79E-F53AC1CAF54E_zpsvb1orkcq.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/A2AE878C-8892-416A-B79E-F53AC1CAF54E_zpsvb1orkcq.png.html)

SFish
07/19/2016, 07:16 PM
The plumbing is where I have to do a lot of learning!
Also, really dumb question. Which chamber does the intake for the sump go to?

If you want the return in the middle then you have to split it to both sides like this (keep in mind there are a ton of sump designs)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/ADA2E09B-1BE3-4595-A8C7-B65E4426E8BB_zpsjoddgkh5.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/ADA2E09B-1BE3-4595-A8C7-B65E4426E8BB_zpsjoddgkh5.png.html)

SFish
07/19/2016, 07:27 PM
I was going to use filter socks when I was thinking of buying a sump kit and it comes with two holders to slide the socks into. How do I attach them in a DIY sump and will I have space to put them in the same chamber as the skimmer?


You can buy holders or use draw string filter socks.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/247AFB5D-82D2-4372-9096-D2A5DDB05E88_zpsm7kotxvk.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/247AFB5D-82D2-4372-9096-D2A5DDB05E88_zpsm7kotxvk.png.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/D60D5ADE-4FAB-4819-9B48-D6D709ABB6A3_zpsuw62mcmb.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/D60D5ADE-4FAB-4819-9B48-D6D709ABB6A3_zpsuw62mcmb.png.html)

SFish
07/19/2016, 07:39 PM
Even more stupid question, when you see tanks that have a circulation pump where the fan part is in the tank and the motor is on the other side, is that drilled and installed or is it mag driven?


Those are Eco tech power heads. They are magnetic and as far as I know the only power heads made this way. They are very good but come at a high cost.

http://youtu.be/jJk1EmrgaYQ

http://youtu.be/BpdpIoQnp_w

Chasedenver
07/20/2016, 10:50 PM
The plumbing is where I have to do a lot of learning!
Also, really dumb question. Which chamber does the intake for the sump go to?

If you want the return in the middle then you have to split it to both sides like this (keep in mind there are a ton of sump designs)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/ADA2E09B-1BE3-4595-A8C7-B65E4426E8BB_zpsjoddgkh5.png (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/ADA2E09B-1BE3-4595-A8C7-B65E4426E8BB_zpsjoddgkh5.png.html)
Is that a pipe going from the skimmer over the heater or is it just illustrating the direction of water flow? Does gravity alone split the flow 90%/10% or is there likely a valve?
How do you keep the sand bed moving?
More questions to come when it's not late at night and my brain isn't half asleep.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

SFish
07/21/2016, 06:55 AM
That is the output of the skimmer they piped over. In this design they put a valve. You don't want the sand bed to move at all. To be honest you don't really have the length to design a sump this way. If you put two bubble traps like that the middle section is going to end up pretty small.

SFish
07/21/2016, 07:23 AM
Some more designs

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/7CA543A9-4AF7-48BB-995B-2377237CE1A8_zps4iiwlc8x.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/7CA543A9-4AF7-48BB-995B-2377237CE1A8_zps4iiwlc8x.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/D9B06F6E-2832-4D41-B266-C5E0621365BE_zps8tartbqr.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/D9B06F6E-2832-4D41-B266-C5E0621365BE_zps8tartbqr.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/804C17CE-C024-4AB2-8DA9-30737890FA6C_zps87nxyrn0.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/804C17CE-C024-4AB2-8DA9-30737890FA6C_zps87nxyrn0.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/E154A39E-889B-4FC2-8415-2B15C6341521_zpsyxdsxabf.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/E154A39E-889B-4FC2-8415-2B15C6341521_zpsyxdsxabf.jpeg.html)

Chasedenver
07/21/2016, 08:22 AM
Some more designs

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/7CA543A9-4AF7-48BB-995B-2377237CE1A8_zps4iiwlc8x.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/7CA543A9-4AF7-48BB-995B-2377237CE1A8_zps4iiwlc8x.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/D9B06F6E-2832-4D41-B266-C5E0621365BE_zps8tartbqr.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/D9B06F6E-2832-4D41-B266-C5E0621365BE_zps8tartbqr.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/804C17CE-C024-4AB2-8DA9-30737890FA6C_zps87nxyrn0.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/804C17CE-C024-4AB2-8DA9-30737890FA6C_zps87nxyrn0.jpeg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/E154A39E-889B-4FC2-8415-2B15C6341521_zpsyxdsxabf.jpeg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/E154A39E-889B-4FC2-8415-2B15C6341521_zpsyxdsxabf.jpeg.html)
I really like the way the last one looks. I was thinking of getting a DC pump. Do I need to have water feeding directly to the fuge compartment? Am I just trying to achieve movement in that section? I'll need to learn more about deep sand beds as in freshwater any deep sand must be turned occasionally or have snails to burrow in it and keep it oxygenated and keep gas and bacteria pockets from forming. Funny how some principles cross over and some are completely different.

Again, seriously, thank you for hand holding with me. I know I can probably find all this myself but having you translate the info into newbie is so ridiculously helpful and amazing.

I went to one of my LFS and asked for quotes on tanks and just overflows and custom stand that I can access from both sides. The tank manufacturer, ATM, is local so custom tanks aren't ridiculous.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

SFish
07/21/2016, 01:54 PM
I went to one of my LFS and asked for quotes on tanks and just overflows and custom stand that I can access from both sides. The tank manufacturer, ATM, is local so custom tanks aren't ridiculous.


I would just make your own stand. It will cost you less and be better made. Very easy to do (2x4's). Check out the video

http://youtu.be/jN4Y9AYuwcQ

A few pictures

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/53FA6C5E-2417-4992-A7D3-AD47B076943A_zpsto0a9u55.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/53FA6C5E-2417-4992-A7D3-AD47B076943A_zpsto0a9u55.jpg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/0C332B91-067F-481A-B49D-49C13B97985A_zpsbr9k5fzu.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/0C332B91-067F-481A-B49D-49C13B97985A_zpsbr9k5fzu.jpg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/C57228E2-47ED-4626-A9AF-5D8DA4C32AF4_zpszpvkulh1.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/C57228E2-47ED-4626-A9AF-5D8DA4C32AF4_zpszpvkulh1.jpg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/9B577F53-1C2A-4D6D-9339-B31E6EBC8712_zpsuwrfwx4b.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/9B577F53-1C2A-4D6D-9339-B31E6EBC8712_zpsuwrfwx4b.jpg.html)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/pokerstudent1/920BF7CA-7A35-4030-BDBE-1D442E52C225_zpsxmm6s22p.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/pokerstudent1/media/920BF7CA-7A35-4030-BDBE-1D442E52C225_zpsxmm6s22p.jpg.html)

SFish
07/21/2016, 02:08 PM
I'll need to learn more about deep sand beds as in freshwater any deep sand must be turned occasionally or have snails to burrow in it and keep it oxygenated and keep gas and bacteria pockets from forming. Funny how some principles cross over and some are completely different.


Yes snails and worms stir the sand bed. You don't want to mess with a DSB. if you stir it up by hand you could crash your system. I should also add you don't need to run a deep sand bed. Know this if you do there is a danger of your whole tank crashing / everything dieing. This is one of those things where some people have great luck and a lot of people have system crashes. If you do run one I would do a remote DSB as they are ugly in the DT and you can take it off line easily if you want. This topic with in it self is a debate as to how well they work and what the dangers are. Personally I would run an ATS instead.

DSB

http://166.78.194.236/forums/showthread.php?t=2268433&page=23

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2123214

ATS

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420

https://www.algaescrubbing.com/threads/algae-scrubber-basics.264/

SFish
07/21/2016, 02:18 PM
I really like the way the last one looks. I was thinking of getting a DC pump. Do I need to have water feeding directly to the fuge compartment? Am I just trying to achieve movement in that section?

If your going to buy a DC pump then there is no need for that T off the pump. You can not control the speed of an AC pump so they put the T there to bleed some water off and slow the pump down where as a DC pump you can just turn the pump down. In the last pic all they did was say I need to get water to this side of the sump and bleed some flow off the pump at the same time so I'll just pump the excess to the other side of the sump. The thing I would be scared of is bubbles coming off that pipe and going up the return. Most people T off the over flow.

As far as DC pumps I would check out the Vectra. They also make a bigger version the L1.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/ecotech-vectra-m1-dc.html

SFish
07/21/2016, 02:43 PM
I went to one of my LFS and asked for quotes on tanks


Why not just buy a 40 breeder from Petco for $40? wait for the $/gal sale.

SFish
07/21/2016, 02:57 PM
Again, seriously, thank you for hand holding with me. I know I can probably find all this myself but having you translate the info into newbie is so ridiculously helpful and amazing.


I by no means am any type of expert. Doing the best I can to help. There are people who can explain these things way better then me. Sk8r is very knowledgeable and helpful.

SFish
07/21/2016, 03:07 PM
Some sites to check out

http://m.marinedepot.com

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com

http://m.liveaquaria.com/diversden/CatDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3

Reading

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588686

Videos

https://m.youtube.com/user/BulkReefSupplyCom

https://m.youtube.com/user/uarujoey

SFish
07/22/2016, 07:06 AM
Forgot about this

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2217633&highlight=aquascape

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1868825&highlight=shadowbox

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1438807

Chasedenver
07/30/2016, 01:05 PM
So just a quick update. I got a TDS meter and tested my 85 gallon planted freshwater. It was 623. I'm going to spend a small fortune on RODI filters and membranes haha

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

SFish
08/01/2016, 08:03 PM
Depends on the filter set up. What is the TDS of your tap water?