BEST ORP for Sulphur NO3 Reactor (De-Nitrator) [Archive]

1jwampler

07/27/2016, 03:40 PM

Hello everyone. I have had a GEO NR818 (CR818 conversion) running using the nose and salifert method of control, while this produced 0 nitrate from the reactor and a significant reduction in tank nitrates, the levels are still too high for SPS (5-10ppm).

Messaged GEO, asked for a probe insert top and converted the NR818 from 1/2 sulphur 1/2 aragonite to 95% Sulphur, 5% ceramic media mix to retain bacteria population during refueling.

I put in the lab grade ORP probe on Neptune, made my cross-over BNC adapter to show negative numbers, and put a normally open solenoid on the feed line to shut off the feed to the reactor when the ORP drops below X. I plan to adjust the needle valve on the NR818 to a flow just slightly higher than needed to maintain X. My target would be solenoid closing 4 to 24 times per day, with 12 times being perfect, so if the bacteria get too excited the flow will offset any tendency to go caustic to my tank.

I have read as much as I can out there, but, probably need to opinion of a Chemist like Randy to determine X for best amount of flow while not risking bacteria going aerobic and providing no benefit (i.e. water out of the reactor with measurable NO3).

I have read -1 to -50 as a minimum, others say -150, -170 or even -200, and even others saying anything higher than -300. I realize in the reef tank ORP is not a specific number, but, a constant and I follow that rule, to keep a number in the tank and it has worked well for me. In fact, I have never even calibrated an ORP probe, since it's just a target and only the change, not the actual number matters.

With the NO3 reactor, there is much more risk of getting it wrong and with only the smell test to know if it's too slow, I don't feel comfortable picking an article I like best between -1 and -300 and hoping the author had some science behind it.

I currently have the needle valve set to ~-140 with the solenoid set to -120 (closing or shutting off water from -120 and higher - higher being a smaller negative number). Feel free to look at my reeftronics.net page (1jwampler) and see N-ORP. I plan to move the needle valve closer to -100 without better guidance from this forum, so the solenoid can actually do some control. but, if the -150 or less club is right, my target is too low, if the -50 club is right I'm not getting the most flow I can from the reactor, which risks both causticity (not measurable by the nose).

Any links to science behind measuring and sustaining ORP (with flow) in an NO3 sulphur de-nitrator would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

bertoni

07/27/2016, 09:09 PM

There are a number of opinions on how to run a sulfur reactor. This thread has some discussion:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2424244

1jwampler

07/27/2016, 11:13 PM

There are a number of opinions on how to run a sulfur reactor. This thread has some discussion:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2424244
Thanks for the link, but, it's like all of the others I have read, Randy's interjections are great and ask good questions, but, not the answer I'm looking for. I know 2014 was only 2 years ago, but, Sulphur based NO3 reactors are still maturing, most are just modified calcium reactors, like my GEO. I had to send them pix of the sulphur (they sold me), running through the screens they supplied and they sent sponges, so not quite a science yet.

I'm fairly confident that an ORP number in the reactor will fairly closely represent the situation where it's more efficient for the bacteria to strip the O from the NO3 as an average. I realize that throughout the reactor, this assembly/disassembly will take place differently, but, I have to think that at ORP of -X, "conditions" are known "BEST" as a compromise flow(rate) to potential NO3 in the effluent.

Again this link has a poster saying -220 and another saying -150 and the Belgian saying -1 to -300, again while I'm sure he's well educated, quoting how much NO3 could be removed by 1.4mm granule of sulphur, to me doesn't have much science behind his statements. Since a granule could be more or less porous, exposed to the side of the reactor (no flow, etc), it's very difficult to take what he puts out as facts to really be based on science.

So.... My plan in absence of anyone else posting some actual ORP cases, is going to be to use the solenoid to hold flow at X, increasing by 5 each day, -150, -145, etc and measure the effluent for NO3 at the end of 24 hours at each step until I see NO3, then lower by -50 and hold there. It's a bit difficult to precisely hold X, so it will just be an average. My last test was at -140 at 0ppm in the effluent, my guess is that around -30 to -50 I will see (Salifert test) some NO3 in the effluent.

bertoni

07/28/2016, 10:32 AM

I don't think there's going to be any one "best" value. There's a balance between the ORP level in the reactor and the denitrification rate. I think your plan is fine.

CHSUB

07/28/2016, 12:24 PM

tmz

07/28/2016, 01:03 PM

I'm interested in what you find in terms of specific optimal ORP ranges.

For me adjusting flow and sulfur volume on my diy reactor in response to variable NO3 levels(lower flow when NO3 is high; higher flow when NO3 is low) gets the results I'm after.The bacteria are facultative as far as I know.

I understand the effort to encourage anaerobic citivity vs aerobic activity via ORP control but haven't seen enough specifics on a working model( other than CHSUb's reports) to form an opinion on a practical application.

1jwampler

07/28/2016, 02:12 PM

1jwampler

07/28/2016, 09:54 PM

i will define "best" ORP as the number that produces no3 free effluent at the highest flow. ime, ~ -150 seems about right, however your number may differ. Currently my reactor is running at max flow that the pump and tube size will allow -385.

this pic is dt no3 and effluent no3.

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b606/CHSUB/image_zpshh8hgetw.jpeg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image_zpshh8hgetw.jpeg.html)

Is -150 as low as you were able to get with 0 NO3 in the effluent? I did a test tonight at -132 still 0 NO3 with Salifert, but, showing between 5 and 10 in the influent. Current flow is ~11oz/min from a GEO NR818 with about 22lbs of Sulphur. This said, the solenoid is set to go "ON" meaning closed/no flow thru the reactor at -130, sometimes makes it to -128 but by the time it opens, ORP is about -134. Holds for about 30-60 minutes before increasing above -130 (increasing to -130 from -134, sure sounds funny), so needle valve is set perfect for my design.

bertoni

07/28/2016, 10:46 PM

The ORP at which the nitrate reaches zero could vary from tank to tank. The flow through the reactors brings in oxygen and some amount of organics, which will be consumed by bacteria and reduce the oxygen and ORP levels. The nitrate level, surface area, and dwell time (determined by the flow) will influence how much nitrate is reduced to nitrogen gas. You have one control for the reactor, but the input profile will vary from tank to tank.

CHSUB

07/29/2016, 09:50 AM

Is -150 as low as you were able to get with 0 NO3 in the effluent? I did a test tonight at -132 still 0 NO3 with Salifert, but, showing between 5 and 10 in the influent. Current flow is ~11oz/min from a GEO NR818 with about 22lbs of Sulphur. This said, the solenoid is set to go "ON" meaning closed/no flow thru the reactor at -130, sometimes makes it to -128 but by the time it opens, ORP is about -134. Holds for about 30-60 minutes before increasing above -130 (increasing to -130 from -134, sure sounds funny), so needle valve is set perfect for my design.

your numbers, iirc, are very close to mine during early use. ~-130 and higher(more positive ie. -127, etc) i would get slight pink from Salifert. i think you are going in the right direction. As others have noted, the actual ORP value is not to important; only that you find a number to slow/stop flow when effluent has readable no3. my filter has been running for almost 4 years with only 1 cleaning and during that time ORP has become more negitive. I have not had a problem with such a large negative number. I clean the probe but maybe it needs calibration, however as long as the effluent is odor and no3 free i'm good!! i'm processing almost 2 gallons per hour now.

of interest is after cleaning some claim a sulfur filter needs restarting, mine recovered after only a few hour, however, during intitial start up the processes took 2-3 months.

here is a pic of mine...

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b606/CHSUB/image.jpg1_zpseo8mhqlt.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpseo8mhqlt.jpg.html)

1jwampler

07/29/2016, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the input guys. Current ORP is -130 Salifert is 0.
Attached pix of the test and NR818 with 22lbs of sulphur. The slight color change at the top is 3lbs of sulphur with argonite premixed from carabsea the other 20lbs is only sulphur with some fluhval ceramic media mixed in. The reactor had 10lbs before I put the probe in. It took about 8hours to cycle down to -170 at 3-4 drops per minute after I added the other 12lbs http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160729/2bc60b9890670e506299817155fd5a30.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160729/7d1f0f62bfb463bfc6ee7aff6fc0844b.jpg

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bertoni

07/29/2016, 01:42 PM

Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.

CHSUB

07/29/2016, 02:28 PM

Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.

thanks, very happy with the filter. Alot of great info on RC about sulfur reactors, no way i could have gotten this far without it!!!

NATCAP_Reefer

08/01/2016, 01:45 PM

thanks, very happy with the filter. Alot of great info on RC about sulfur reactors, no way i could have gotten this far without it!!!
I'm glad things are turning around for you.

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tmz

08/03/2016, 11:06 AM

Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.

Ditto; I'd like to see more from folks actually using ORP control with sulfur dentrators.

1jwampler

08/04/2016, 07:36 AM

NO3 still zero with 125 average ORP going to try 120http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/25ce65e17d5ef829c98e3fbe2ba850db.pnghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/93a9bfc1eafe6768368636eef4e24872.jpg

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CHSUB

08/04/2016, 09:36 AM

Ditto; I'd like to see more from folks actually using ORP control with sulfur dentrators.

looks like we have one more!!!:thumbsup:

NO3 still zero with 125 average ORP going to try 120ht/93a9bfc1eafe6768368636eef4e24872.jpg

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looks good....

what is your flow now, still ~11 oz per minute, continuous ~5 gph? which is very good imo!

also what is the dt no3 now, and how many gallon is the reactor? i see the lbs of sulfur, but i would like to know gallons. Could you tell us more about the DT? size, inhabitants, etc.

1jwampler

08/04/2016, 10:37 AM

looks like we have one more!!!:thumbsup:

looks good....

what is your flow now, still ~11 oz per minute, continuous ~5 gph? which is very good imo!

also what is the dt no3 now, and how many gallon is the reactor? i see the lbs of sulfur, but i would like to know gallons. Could you tell us more about the DT? size, inhabitants, etc.

12.5oz/min
DT NO3 ~6 ppm
Reactor volume 8x18 ~4 gallons
150 gallon display LPS and too many big fish.
Biggest are crosshatch pair ~9" and two 6" yellows. I have a tank post in the forum.
I feed too often but, the RX seems to be doing the job

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CHSUB

08/04/2016, 12:53 PM

12.5oz/min
DT NO3 ~6 ppm
Reactor volume 8x18 ~4 gallons
150 gallon display LPS and too many big fish.
Biggest are crosshatch pair ~9" and two 6" yellows. I have a tank post in the forum.
I feed too often but, the RX seems to be doing the job

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great!!!!

that's a giant reactor, i have "toyed" with the idea of getting a bigger one. With flow like that and no3 free effluent, imo, you well get great results.
keep us updated....

Taahirs

08/04/2016, 01:09 PM

Sorry, noob to Sulphur here. Where do you guys have your probe? Inside the reactor or in your sump where the effluent comes out?

CHSUB

08/04/2016, 01:18 PM

Sorry, noob to Sulphur here. Where do you guys have your probe? Inside the reactor or in your sump where the effluent comes out?

in the reactor...if you look at the pictures closely you can see the probes.

1jwampler

08/04/2016, 03:31 PM

great!!!!

that's a giant reactor, i have "toyed" with the idea of getting a bigger one. With flow like that and no3 free effluent, imo, you well get great results.

keep us updated....

I have learned to always buy bigger than I need, glad I did this time. Serdar from GEO suggested it's too big for a 150, and sold me 10lbs of sulphur suggesting it was more than enough. 10lbs brought the tank down from 40 to 15ppm but never better. Now that I have it full it's moving down again did 3 50 gal WCs after I filled it two weeks ago, was just less than 10ppm, now down to ~6.

If I had it to do again I would have got the 12"

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1jwampler

08/04/2016, 11:10 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355682&stc=1&d=1470373787

CHSUB

08/05/2016, 09:16 AM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355682&stc=1&d=1470373787

a lot of big eaters there, looks great! i agree, and the one thing that i agree with Mr. Belgian Anthias is reactor size. LOL, hope i didn't poke the hornet's nest....

1jwampler

08/07/2016, 06:50 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/bb69906da311d4aef4f8205bbab0ba4b.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/6707215b78ab6dc21c2f35715ab02476.png

Ran at 100 for two days, last night went up to 130 with no changes then went back down to 100.

I hate the Red Sea because the NO3 test takes 12 minutes, but any trace of NO3 is pink on the Red Sea, so even at ORP of 100 no NO3 in the effluent. Still running about 6PPM in the display

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1jwampler

08/08/2016, 10:15 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/2b75d165c5db67bdab67727950ffd600.png
No changes to input flow, running open output, but, just climbed to 173, I'm out of town, so I can't measure the effluent rate, but, can't imagine it changed without touching anything. So, perhaps the bacteria colony grows over time. Hopefully I will be able to increase flow and clean more water.

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1jwampler

08/10/2016, 06:57 AM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/8f7a6c37b5a4ccdfc9588b077dbf0b9a.png

Out of town until Friday, but NO3 RX ORP is still going up, I had my wife FaceTime the effluent line and it's still flowing what looks like the same ~12.5oz/min. The needle valve on input is very sensitive, so I'm hesitant to have my wife adjust (open) it. So... I have alert set for -300, should it hit that, I will risk the remote hands adjustment.

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bertoni

08/10/2016, 04:45 PM

Hmm, that's a big change in ORP. I wonder whether there might be more organics for some reason. Hard to tell.

1jwampler

08/10/2016, 04:48 PM

Tank ORP is within 20 at +255, I would think the organics would drop tank ORP at the same rate as the RX without additional bacteria growth to consume the oxidizers since it's already negative. Since my post the RX is at -275 so I'm going to have my wife open the needle valve 1/8 of a turn

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1jwampler

08/11/2016, 10:10 PM

Just got home from NYC, last night RX ORP went up to 290 so I had my wife fill the cup and it was at 9oz/min, I used FaceTime and walked her through opening the needle and re-measuring to get to 13oz/min, by morning it was down to 243, then by the time I boarded my flight, it was back up to 256. I did a measurement and it was still at 13oz/min. I adjusted to 15oz/min no change for about an hour, so I adjusted to 17oz/min about 30 min ago and it went down to 252 as of now. I tested tank NO3 at 7ppm and effluent at 0ppm, so looks like I may have to go to 20oz/min or more.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 09:43 AM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/af92d4860fb6ed626fd26ec49dccfc59.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/06d7cb9ba6b13eb41943e165909b801e.jpg
RX output rate is climbing past 20oz/min the cup is hard to see but between 16 and 24oz. ORP is -230 and falling may have to increase to 24oz/min. Effluent is still zero tank is down to 2.5ppm

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CHSUB

08/13/2016, 11:04 AM

good stuff!!! as DT no3 keeps going down, flow will need to be increased even more.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 11:09 AM

good stuff!!! as DT no3 keeps going down, flow will need to be increased even more.

The RX has a 1/4 OD tube in and out not sure how much more than maybe 24oz/min I'll be able to put through it. I assume as long as I don't smell rotten eggs, the ORP is less important at the higher numbers.

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Greg 45

08/13/2016, 11:10 AM

I would suggest you measure output in volume. I measure in ml so if I change flow I know. What if you get a clog in the line or pump fails 1/4 turn means nothing.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 11:16 AM

I would suggest you measure output in volume. I measure in ml so if I change flow I know. What if you get a clog in the line or pump fails 1/4 turn means nothing.

I'm confused how is oz/min NOT volume? Where did I say turn?

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CHSUB

08/13/2016, 11:21 AM

The RX has a 1/4 OD tube in and out not sure how much more than maybe 24oz/min I'll be able to put through it. I assume as long as I don't smell rotten eggs, the ORP is less important at the higher numbers.

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yes, that is where i'm at, flow at max and very low ORP. i agree also watch for smell, however, ime with good flow it never happens. i think the smell comes when flow is very slow or stopped.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 11:25 AM

yes, that is where i'm at, flow at max and very low ORP. i agree also watch for smell, however, ime with good flow it never happens. i think the smell comes when flow is very slow or stopped.

You said you're about 2gph (4oz/min) what's your ORP and tank NO3?

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CHSUB

08/13/2016, 11:47 AM

You said you're about 2gph (4oz/min) what's your ORP and tank NO3?

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yes about 2 gph. today ORP was -367 and no3 last week was ~1.00 ppm. i'm planning to increase flow a little by removing a valve, but i can't get much more flow.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 11:50 AM

yes about 2 gph. today ORP was -367 and no3 last week was ~1.00 ppm. i'm planning to increase flow a little by removing a valve, but i can't get much more flow.

No foul smell at -367, I assume, so I shouldn't worry about how far down ORP is as long as I'm at high flow? Just read a bunch of horror stories of hydrogen sulfide contaminating the tank.

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CHSUB

08/13/2016, 12:36 PM

No foul smell at -367, I assume, so I shouldn't worry about how far down ORP is as long as I'm at high flow? Just read a bunch of horror stories of hydrogen sulfide contaminating the tank.

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i have been as low as -412, without smell and a cleaned probe with good flow. i cut back on my autowaterchange, but all is good. horror stories involve lack of flow, right?

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 12:52 PM

i have been as low as -412, without smell and a cleaned probe with good flow. i cut back on my autowaterchange, but all is good. horror stories involve lack of flow, right?

It seems that even a slow pump in the RX can cause this issue.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.us/nitrate-reactor-redox-problemrotten-eggs-smell

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CHSUB

08/13/2016, 01:15 PM

It seems that even a slow pump in the RX can cause this issue.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.us/nitrate-reactor-redox-problemrotten-eggs-smell

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yes, i keep an eye on the recirculating Pump also, low flows areas inside the reactor could cause this. i think black areas inside are a cause for concern, but have never seen this in mine. i have read about long power outages causing the most damage; after power is restored the filter starts flowing again and dumping hydrogen sulfide in the DT.

1jwampler

08/13/2016, 04:15 PM

yes, i keep an eye on the recirculating Pump also, low flows areas inside the reactor could cause this. i think black areas inside are a cause for concern, but have never seen this in mine. i have read about long power outages causing the most damage; after power is restored the filter starts flowing again and dumping hydrogen sulfide in the DT.

I have a whole house generator, so hopefully power outage is never my issue, but, just in case I have a Honda 2k inverter I use for my RC helicopters.

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bertoni

08/13/2016, 06:18 PM

I agree that ORP is likely to be a poor guide as to the amount of hydrogen sulfide in the water. What is critical is keeping enough oxygen in the reactor so that anaerobic metabolism is kept low enough that not much sulfate is converted to hydrogen sulfide. If the reactor gets blocked for a while, a lot of hydrogen sulfide can build up. When the flow is restarted, the hydrogen sulfide can be very toxic. That's why taking any kind of reactor (GFO, etc) offline can be dangerous if water is left in the vessel.

content12001

08/27/2016, 04:15 AM

1jwampler
Any updates?

1jwampler

08/27/2016, 11:39 AM

1jwampler

Any updates?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160827/046cfb2613321348458ed73774e3ebc1.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160827/f110a191fc07db7a4b84288c9bdfe76f.jpg
Tank NO3 holding at 2.5ppm N-ORP still falling over the last week from just more than -300 to -330, needle valve all the way open flowing about 30oz/min with the effluent still at Zero.

You can follow N-ORP live on reeftronics

https://www.reeftronics.net/_/1jwampler/apex-history

T-pH is where the effluent is delivered to the refugium typically 7.75 to 8.05 and B-pH is the inline probe from the main pump typically 7.95 to 8.15.

So the reactor has taken a toll on tank pH but the inhabitants seem ok with it, since the fuge is cleaning it up (removing all the CO2 from the bacteria). The NO3 levels are pretty good and GFO is keeping my phosphates below .25ppm typically around .112 using Hanna phosphorus 736

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1jwampler

09/05/2016, 09:01 AM

Anyone out there have insight into the Salifert and Red Sea test kits at the very low end of the spectrum, or maybe how nitrates leach? I'm very confused, I have this RX running at 30oz/min or 338gpd. I have a 150 with about 200lbs of liver rock, a 60g sump, so I figure actual water volume close to tank, so for grins say 164 gallons. This means the RX turns the tank 2x/day and effluent is ALWAYS 0ppm on any test kit. The tank water is stuck at ~2.5ppm NO3 for almost a month. Yes I know I have a lot of livestock and I over feed, but, is it really possible that my system manufactures 5.0ppm of NO3 per day?

I have heard of rock work leaching nitrates, but, this still seems a bit crazy. I was worried about running the tank too clean, and I feel like I'm going crazy with nitrate testing. If I let the Salifert test sit for 5 min it shows 5.0ppm rather than the 2.5ppm in 3 min, the Red Sea is not so sensitive too extra time. The API kit stopped showing anything but yellow/zero two months ago.

Am I just seeing some erroneous trace? These kits are supposed to show/be accurate to .25ppm, but, I only tend to see a little higher than 2.5ppm, which I think is due to poor timing on my part. I have attached a nitrate test graph.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160905/6a88bf830e42a04d8fc6af18b5cf9ece.jpg

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tmz

09/05/2016, 09:11 AM

1jwampler

09/05/2016, 09:24 AM

LOL, hope i didn't poke the hornet's nest....

:p:rollface: Bzzzzzzzz; larger is not necessarily better,IMO and experience. One gallon of media worked fine for a 500 gallon system. Some prefer 1 or even 2% but that seems excessive to me and far exceeds natural levels. IMO, the volume of sulfur in use can be adjusted to the level of nitrate in the system.

Trust me I thought this was too much Sulphur for a 150 too, which is why I started with 1 gallon (Per GEO) for my 150. This said, I realize my tank has too many fish, but, they are not aggressive to each other, probably because my family likes to feed way too often. The RX was not dropping past ~10ppm, until I filled it up, then it went down to 2.5ppm, but, like I said, I find it crazy that I can turn my 150 2x/day and effluent is ALWAYS 0ppm and yet the tank stays at 2.5ppm.

So bigger is NOT better, it's just BIGGER, in this case BIGGER is providing 338 GPD+ of 0 PPM NO3 water to a 150G system and the system is adding the 5.0 PPM/day back.

This doesn't seem possible, that's why I'm posting. So... If you have any explanation of how bigger could be adding, I'm very interested.

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tmz

09/05/2016, 09:48 AM

1jwampler

09/05/2016, 09:57 AM

I don't think more sulfur adds NO3; it adds more sulfur and sulfate and additional potential NO3 reduction in the reactor in balance with the flow of NO3 into the reactor from the tank. More sulfur and more flow may be hlepful in a very high NO3 producing set up. If the effluent is zero and the tank is 2.5 more flow through the reactor might reduce the tank level further even without additional sulfur.

Right but, 1 gallon at 12oz/min was zero NO3 in the effluent, 13oz/min had traces of pink in the Salifert and Red Sea kits. So.... I added another gallon, then went to 24oz/min, then the final 1/2gallon for max flow needle all the way open 30oz/min. So... Again bigger/more yes than others, but, measured and calculated for results, effluent at ZERO is pretty darn good proof of that.

The above said, not sure this addresses how a 150 could produce 5.0ppm of NO3/day?

So if your goal in posting was to say you think I have too much sulphur for the size tank, all out there can take your note.

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tmz

09/05/2016, 12:02 PM

That was not my intent;have no idea how you got that out of it.

The nitrate "production" in the tank is from ammonia production from foods ,fish waste and respiration and decaying organic material without enough enough anaerobic denitrification in the tank to keep up with the ammonia oxidation/nitrification .

CHSUB

09/06/2016, 01:20 PM

Anyone out there have insight into the Salifert and Red Sea test kits at the very low end of the spectrum

with regards to this question....clear on Salifert is not 0.00 or no3 free, i have tested NSW around reefs and open water in S. Florida many times and only on very, very rare occasions is it anything but completely clear. In fact, i use NSW from Haulover Cut in-coming tide and every time i get water i test it and almost every time it is clear on Salifert.

here is NSW being delivered, only once has Salifert tested anything other than clear (iirc) and we know no3 must be present...

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b606/CHSUB/photowc_zps1c01819b.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/photowc_zps1c01819b.jpg.html)

1jwampler

09/06/2016, 02:38 PM

i have tested NSW around reefs and open water in S. Florida many times and only on very, very rare occasions is it anything but completely clear. In fact, i use NSW from Haulover Cut in-coming tide and every time i get water i test it and almost every time it is clear on Salifert.

here is NSW being delivered, only once has Salifert tested anything other than clear (iirc) and we know no3 must be present...

Thanks, I see clear Salifert from the effluent, so I know it's possible. I'm still stumped on the 150 creating 5.0ppm of NO3/ day. Not as efficient as the sulphur reactor, but I have a 4" sand bed, and two marine pure 8x8x4 blocks in the bottom of the refugium, almost no light reaches the top but I have a rio 600 moving enough water to keep detritus off the bottom, so I would think there is some additional NO3 removal by the:
Sand bed
Live rock
Marine pure blocks

In addition to the 5ppm/ day the sulphur reactor removes.

Seems like crazy production, I'm not a chemist but, I would assume getting close to the actual weight of the food added to the tank each day, especially when you consider the crud removed from the sock also changed each day

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CHSUB

09/06/2016, 03:04 PM

Thanks, I see clear Salifert from the effluent, so I know it's possible. I'm still stumped on the 150 creating 5.0ppm of NO3/ day. Not as efficient as the sulphur reactor, but I have a 4" sand bed, and two marine pure 8x8x4 blocks in the bottom of the refugium, almost no light reaches the top but I have a rio 600 moving enough water to keep detritus off the bottom, so I would think there is some additional NO3 removal by the:
Sand bed
Live rock
Marine pure blocks

In addition to the 5ppm/ day the sulphur reactor removes.

Seems like crazy production, I'm not a chemist but, I would assume getting close to the actual weight of the food added to the tank each day, especially when you consider the crud removed from the sock also changed each day

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a lot of "stuff" happens in reef tanks that we don't understand imo. you have many big fish, so maybe? the only way you could know for sure is to remove it, LOL.....years ago i ran a methanol denitrator with dt NO3 unreadable and was convinced it was working well. i removed it and no3 remained unreadable....go figure???

1jwampler

09/06/2016, 03:16 PM

a lot of "stuff" happens in reef tanks that we don't understand imo. you have many big fish, so maybe? the only way you could know for sure is to remove it, LOL.....years ago i ran a methanol denitrator with dt NO3 unreadable and was convinced it was working well. i removed it and no3 remained unreadable....go figure???

Sad to admit but you're right, that would be both good and bad. I have always hoped when the effluent is the same as the tank it should be removed. And I share your opinion I have too many big fish, but my family loves them. I want corals so I'm trying to get the tank (sparing little expense) parameters in line to support corals.

So NO3 at 2.5 and PO4 at .08 should be good now but I would like to see NO3 at .5 and can't figure out why this crazy overkill is not doing it.

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