Looking for advise 20G Nano fish only

[nirtza79]

Hi all,

I am looking for some advise on fish stocking.
I want to start a 20G Fish only (maybe some LR also), I am a marine biologist with 12 years experience so I know my water but I don't know much about marine ornamental fish, what I would like is as I had said 20G fish only, I like small colorful fish and as many as one could possibly put in a 20G tank.
Any and all advise are very much appreciated!!

[journeyman]

Shrimp gobies are awesome. I like the yasha goby for color. I also like to pair it with a candy cane pistol shrimp. They will dig, so make sure your rockscape is really stable. Also, for pistol shrimp, I prefer the candy cane over the tiger, because the tiger will dig too much.

Small blennies are good too. Barnacle blennies stay really small, but like to hide. They can be fun to watch.

Clown fish can also fit in a 20, but stick to the percula or ocellaris, maroons are too aggressive and get too big. Pygmy and other small wrasses also can fit in a 20g. Small hawkfish can fit as well, since they mostly perch, but they'll eat your inverts.

Beyond that you are really pushing the limits. Plus for water quality and aggression issues, you probably don't want more than three fish max. When you pick your fish I recommend going from smallest to largest.

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[nirtza79]

3 fish??

Is there really such a HUGE difference between fresh and saltwater??
In fresh water 20G i can probably put at least 20 fish.

[journeyman]

Saltwater fish are used to having much more space, so they instinctively try to keep more territory in a tank. Also the volume of water in the ocean makes it comparably cleaner than freshwater environments, so the fish are generally more sensitive to water chemistry. If you don't keep corals, the water chemistry is less of an issue, but the fish will still show aggression in the limited space. If you stick to smaller less territorial fish, you may be able to squeeze in a couple more.

Compare them to aggressive African cichlids.

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[nirtza79]

Thanks journeyman,

What about CUC, do I need any of those?

[nirtza79]

And what about invertebrates? how many would you recommend?

[jraker]

Get a possum wrasse. They don't need as much space as other wrasses, they look cool, and have tons of personality.

[ReefWreak]

Welcome to the saltwater ornamental aquarium hobby!

I'd strongly recommend taking a look at this thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074) first, as it covers a lot of the basic intro questions when starting up a tank. I'd also recommend picking up some introductory books on setting saltwater tanks up, I like Mike Paletta's introductory book (even if it is a bit old).

Largely because of the low tolerances of marine fish to ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, relative to their freshwater and brackish cousins, and the low tolerance of aquarists to algae, there is a huge and necessary focus in the marine aquarium hobby on minimizing bioload in our small tanks, hence the recommendations for very few fishes.

One of the biggest secrets in the saltwater hobby is that there isn't that much of a difference between keeping a fish-only tank and keeping a coral tank. In both situations, you want to minimize ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphates, as they will hurt the fishes as well as feed undesirable algae.

You could start the tank with a plan for 4-5 small fishes once the tank is done with its initial nitrogen cycle. Make your list, rank them from least aggressive to most aggressive, and add them to the tank in that order (of course after quarantining them first, check out the "TTM" Tank Transfer Method).

Welcome, and it is very exciting to see someone who knows what the ocean is really about joining the glass-box-ocean ranks :D

[nirtza79]

OK,
What do you think about Gobies and Firefish?
Purple firefish,
Exquisite firefish?
Neon blue goby?
Orange stripe prawn goby?
Cave transparent goby?
And maybe possum wrasse?
Can I mix them?
One of each?

[daveverdo]

I would say all of those are too much for a 20g. As posted earlier stick with 3 or 4 unless they are really tiny fish. Some of them are jumper so you would need a top.

I like ocellaris clowns myself. Add a few large poly corals and they may even host in it. They don't have to be stony corals, even something like a hairy mushroom.

Inverts like crabs, snails and shrimp shouldn't be a problem and are great for cleaning detritus and algae.

http://www.nano-reef.com/totm/2013/sep/clownfish.jpg

[ReefinChicago]

.......and then revise your list. Like the previous poster said, some of the fish on your list are jumpers. Will you cover your tank (serious question.......I'm an open top fan, which limits my choices, as I've learned with much pain in the past)?

After that, start with a limit in mind, and with the least aggressive fish on your list, and build the list of how you'll stock over a period of time. Neon gobies and firefish tend to be fairly tame. I'm a clown guy, too, but they can be a little more aggressive. I've posted that I want a blackcap basslet for my new 30, but a gramma is a nice choice there, too.

Possum wrasse are jumpers. I've lost a chalk bass and a jaw that way, so when I'm looking at stocking I always check on that. I like prawn gobies. Never had one with a shrimp, but that'd be cool. I like gobies in general.

So it's not just 'the list'. It's also about aggressiveness and stocking order. And agree that the usual snails and/or crabs are good choices for a CUC. Trying to go crabless on my most recent tank, but I've had hermits and emeralds in tanks for years.

[ReefWreak]

OK,
What do you think about Gobies and Firefish? - Love em
Purple firefish, - Yep
Exquisite firefish? - Yep
Neon blue goby? - Yep
Orange stripe prawn goby? - Yep
Cave transparent goby? - Yep, but never heard of it
And maybe possum wrasse? - Yep
Can I mix them? - Yep
One of each? No. Too many fishes, and likely aggression between similar fishes

So a few things worth mentioning:
Aggression can be caused by or exacerbated by:
Not enough places for fishes to hide (tank size or rock/cave density)
Fishes being in the same food sphere (i.e. too many planktivores competing for food midway in the water column)
Fishes just not getting along with non-mated similar or same species inhabitants (i.e. firefishes that are same or different colored but not paired probably won't get along, and will either kill each other directly, or chase each other out of the tank until one jumps and dies)

I generally try to use those rules when making my decisions. The firefish, I'd recommend either getting a pair or trio from the get-go (i.e. mated pair/trio), gobies, maybe one or two will be fine in a 20g Long tank, so there is plenty of wide area. Neon goby and wrasse should be fine, because other than in name, the goby doesn't look like or feed like the other two gobies (or other inhabitants), and the wrasse will largely be independent.


It is also very worthwhile to check out this compatibility chart (http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=21#marine) that LiveAquaria offers on their website.

And it's also worth mentioning that in this hobby, for better or worse, there are very few black and white rules. Have people filled a small tank with a ton of fishes of the same variety and kept it that way for a long time? Probably. Were they successful? Probably not, but maybe it depends on your definition of success. Maybe they had to constantly feed tons of food to keep aggression low, but as a result, their tank was covered with algae and the fishes weren't healthy because of the always-high ammonia-nitrite-nitrate levels even with heavy skimming and frequent water changes.

It's all about what you want your tank to be, and how you feel comfortable keeping fishes. When I bought my first 24g nanocube used, it came with 13 fishes, including a yellow tang. I immediately traded all of the fishes in except 3-4 small fishes. My big 120g tank I had probably 12-15 fishes, including a few large tangs, and everything did really well. Its all about what you want to do with the tank, and again I think it's important to keep in mind that the traditional view of "oh, I'm only keeping fishes so water quality doesn't matter" isn't true unless you also like keeping lots of algae and unhealthy fishes.

[nirtza79]

ok,
So from all of your replies I get that I can do this (please comment and let me know what you think):
1 Exquisite firefish
1 Neon blue goby
1 Orange stripe prawn goby
and maybe down the line
1 Cave transparent goby.
In that order?
Also what snails would you recommend? Shrimp? hermits?

[lifeoffaith]

I have a 24 gallon and have 4 fish and have had a couple more in the past. I'm definitely pushing my limits though. The key is adult size, swimming space, agression. I do have some corals, but they are mostly softies and I don't have tons.

[journeyman]

Get some hermit crabs, astrea snails. I also like Nasarius snails, which dig under the sand and come up when there is good. I'm fascinated every time they come out of the sand.

Also a candy cane pistol shrimp would be cool to pair with your prawn goby.

Cleaner shrimp are really pretty, but they tend to steal food from things like anemones, so I don't keep them for that reason, but if you are fish only they would be OK. Sexy shrimp also really cool to have.

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[ReefWreak]

I'm partial to snails only. I also started my tank with 6 astrea snails and 6 hermit crabs (do as I say, not as I do ;) ). I think 6 astrea snails would be good for your 20g tank (mine is 29g).

You could add shrimp for your own entertainment, I'm partial to skunk or blood cleaner shrimp. I wouldn't add crabs or hermits unless you just want to see them.

You can explore some goby/pistol shrimp combinations, but I would buy them established together and not leave it to them to find each other.

There are a lot of snails out there, so it's worth taking a look and reading some reviews (yes, we review entire species! 4/5 ****, would keep again!).

All shrimps and crabs steal food from corals (and anemones) if you don't feed them all at the same time.

[nirtza79]

Hi,
So in the meantime I have been reading a lot of the threads that ReefWreak had recommended, learned a lot!!
I do have a question about sand bed, I would like to do the DSB but is it going to be effective in a biocube 14G (found my old tank which is a BioCube 14G)? Or should I go with 1" bed?
What do you think?

[ReefWreak]

Hi,
So in the meantime I have been reading a lot of the threads that ReefWreak had recommended, learned a lot!!
I do have a question about sand bed, I would like to do the DSB but is it going to be effective in a biocube 14G (found my old tank which is a BioCube 14G)? Or should I go with 1" bed?
What do you think?

A DSB in a 14g tank will not be useful. Too small of surface area. Just stick with a shallow sand bed, vacuum it now and then, and you're fine.

Glad you found my random posts useful :p

[ken1977]

I go at least 50 gallon for a fish only tank and it would be a 50 gallon long tank. You will be limited to the type of fish you can put in 20 gallon.

[nirtza79]

Ok so this is my game plan:
RO/DI water
10 lbs LS (1" deep)
12 lbs LR
Cycle and than go from there.
I know I had said Fish only but now I think I'll probably make it a reef.

[ReefinChicago]

:cool:

[nirtza79]

Oh...
The obsession began 12 years ago!!:fish1:

[nirtza79]

First step.
CaribSea special reef grade.

[nirtza79]

14 lbs of rock
4 lbs LR
10 lbs fiji rock

[nirtza79]

Another photo

[nirtza79]

Here it is

[Sobi]

Looking good, cant wait to see more.

[nirtza79]

Ok, few questions:

When do you add CUC? which ones? and how many?

This is my stocking list:

1 Exquisite Firefish
1 Randall Shrimp Goby
1 Pistol Shrimp (which one?)
1 Neon Goby
What should be the order of stocking?

[royy13]

I'm going to get flamed for what I'm about to post but don't really care. The following is my list of fish in my 20 long: clown fish, fire fish, tail spot blenny, rose goby and a tiger shrimp, yellow clown goby, Royal gramma, and 2 Bangaii cardinals. I have a sump with a marine pure block and a skimmer. Tank and inhabitants are doing fine. The fish are always out and swim together except for the rose goby who just guards his cave. I have corals that are growing and doing great. I feed several times a day as well. I am not sure, but I think the marine pure is the reason the large bioload doesn't foul the tank.

Roy

[journeyman]

Stock from smallest to largest. Best practice for aggression.

I'm partial to the candy cane pistol shrimp, which is pretty and is one of the smaller ones, so doesn't dig as much.

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[CLR]

Angler maybe ?

[nirtza79]

Angler maybe ?

What do you mean?

[ReefWreak]

I'm going to get flamed for what I'm about to post but don't really care. The following is my list of fish in my 20 long: clown fish, fire fish, tail spot blenny, rose goby and a tiger shrimp, yellow clown goby, Royal gramma, and 2 Bangaii cardinals. I have a sump with a marine pure block and a skimmer. Tank and inhabitants are doing fine. The fish are always out and swim together except for the rose goby who just guards his cave. I have corals that are growing and doing great. I feed several times a day as well. I am not sure, but I think the marine pure is the reason the large bioload doesn't foul the tank.

Roy

Eh, no flaming necessary... You have a sump, marinepure block (though I'm still on the fence about these), and a skimmer. It's probably cramped, but not the end of the world, and all of the fishes stay small.

Also, the comment about anglers I assume was for angler fish, which are really interesting fish, but I think they'll eat your other small fishes, and they also produce a lot of waste because they eat big meals.

[Babydaull]

Do you think it would be fine to keep a flame angel in a nuvo fusion 20? I see them in biocubes but different shape.

[royy13]

I've heard of dwarf angels getting territorial in small tanks, but I have a friend who has one in a 29 with no problems. That's close to your size tank.

[marleesan]

20 is way too small for a flame angel. They need space for grazing and swimming

[nirtza79]

Some pictures,

It's a little hard to see but what is in the circle?

[ReefWreak]

Looks like an aiptasia. I'd do some quick searches, then go buy kalk powder (or pickling lime), use a teaspoon of it mixed with a little bit of tank water to make a thick paste (like toothpaste consistency), and cover that area in it. That's as close as you can get to killing it with fire in an aquarium.

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[nirtza79]

Time for an update ��
Get the AI Prime HD.

[nirtza79]

Another one

[ReefWreak]

Lookin good!

[nirtza79]

Thanks,

Still trying to find a good setting for the Prime HD.

Any recommendations?

[nirtza79]

6 Weeks in, CUC added.