New to the forum and looking for some help with coral colors.

[malinois]

So I am relatively new to the hobby and new to the forum. I have a 200 gallon reef tank that has been doing well for the past 6 to 7 months. Recently my levels of both nitrates and phosphates have dropped dramatically. My nitrates are undetectable and my phosphates are reading .08. My corals are starting to lose a lot of color. In the last week or two I have started dozing Red Sea's reef energy. I have seen a slight, so slight it might just be me, change and in color.

I have been running biopellets and skimming heavy from the get go. The tank is roughly 1.5 years old. My lighting is all LEDs, which served well on my old 100 gallon mixed reef. The old tank was mostly softies and the new tank is quickly heading in the direction of SPS, that is if I can get the colors of course.

I've been going through the form as well as all over the Internet. I'm finding there's way too much information out there for my little brain to handle. I would like to look at ways to get more color to the corals and I am not sure of what direction to head. I was looking at dosing nitrates, amino acids and some trace elements.

Any and all advise would be appreciated.

Jon

[fishchef]

General rule of thumb is not to dose what you can't test for. I traded in some SPS to my local LFS. They had great color under my T-5's, but not so great under their LED's. It does point to the importance of Lighting.

[vhuang168]

Lighting is important but the whether the type of lighting is really the cause is still up for debate.

Case in point,

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160806/29de4392e0fb9a86b540d0d2f6fdeaf8.jpg

Came from an established tank running MH. Introduced to my tank 7/14


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160806/0f39ff57006e658b2638c896065f8c20.png

Frag as it was a few days ago. I'm using AP700 LEDs.

For every case of frags doing poorly going from MH/T5 to LED and/or doing poorly in LED but better in MH/T5, there are cases demonstrating the opposite.

OP, if you like Red Sea products, they make a Reef Color additive package that you can also use their Reef Color test kits with.




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[fishchef]

I have not used LED's, but have read about differences in quality. Some can be adjusted to vary output of spectrum from what I understand.

[NS Mike D]

1. Without knowing the PAR, its guessing with lighting. Many LED manufacturers will post PAR mapping to give you an idea what to expect in your tank. A par meter is worth the investment given how much we spend on corals. Some reef clubs share a PAR meter for members.

2. Bio pellets take out nitrogen at a much faster pace than phosphates and can lead to what you are experiencing. The out of balance can lead to cyano outbreaks, but corals still use N & P as do the zooxanthellae bacteria that feed them.

I like Reef Energy and how my corals are responding to it, but you still need some N&P for your corals.

Too much light is the first suspect when corals bleach - so I would start there.

With a 200 gal tank, I would say get a PAR meter, ASAP, woudl be worth the investment. BRS has a video on a monitoring system that includes a PAR meter at either $199 or $299. They tested it against a high end meter and it stood up (some mid and low level PAR meters don't work well for LEDs).

Post the make and model of your LEDs, there are folks on this site who can provide good advice on a number of LEDs on settings that should be in a good PAR range.

Let's nail down your lighting


And given your NO3 numbers, add some phyto and zooplankton to go along with that Reef Energy to feed your corals. Once or twice a week, give your corals 20 minutes or so to respond to the Reef Energy, when they open and extend their polyps, dose the plankton

[bertoni]

[welcome]

I agree that adding a bit more food might be appropriate. Some people even dose sodium nitrate. If the added food raises the phosphate level, I'd consider adding some GFO. I'd start with these steps, and work from there.

[malinois]

Thank you all for the advise.

I have a Seneye meter that has a par meter coming today or Monday through Amazon. I believe it is the same system that you are talking about through BRS.

My LEDs are a mix of Kessils and cheap Chinese lights. They are adjustable in both intensity and what color they put out. I can adjust the "white", a mixture of Red, Green, Yellow and White, the blue and the violet. My feeling is that I have too much light on some of the corals. I will get that figured out when the meter comes in and I have time to sit down and get all the measurements. My goal is to add some T5's to the system when I can upgrade the cooling fans. The system is built into my wall.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zpsmpdrcwtj.jpeg

I don't know about the color program from Red Sea. I thought you dosed based on your calcium and alkalinity dosing with a two part solution. I am currently running a skims calcium reactor, so I don't know the exact amount being dosed, meaning what it would equal in two part dosing. Can you still measure and test for the items that you are dosing with the Red Sea system if you are not using two part?

Can I dose straight nitrates into the system to get some in there? I feed like crazy and I have quite a few fish, but with the bio pellets I am stripping the nitrates out just as fast. The problem with using fish and lots of fish food for nitrates and phosphates, to my understanding, is that your phosphates will slowly get out of control. I really want to avoid using GFO on the system. Is there a form of nitrate that you suggest?

I really appreciate all of your help and advice. Here are a few more shots currently of my tank. I'm sorry about the quality they're all taken with my iPhone and iPad. I currently do not own a quality camera to handle the lighting of the tank.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zps9tdjo4j9.jpeg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zpstvdxahbt.jpeg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zpsuqkixcja.jpeg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zpsw67929el.jpeg

[malinois]

Where do you get sodium nitrates and what kind am I looking at?
I really want to avoid adding GFO to the tank. Don't really have an excuse as to why just don't want to use the stuff if I can. From what I have read, with the BP I can add nitrates which will help keep my phosphates in check.

[bertoni]

It's available at modernistpantry.com in food grade, and Amazon sells reagent grade. Either likely is fine.

[malinois]

It's available at modernistpantry.com in food grade, and Amazon sells reagent grade. Either likely is fine.

Thank you. I will have to check that out.

[bertoni]

You're welcome.

[vhuang168]

Thank you all for the advise.



I have a Seneye meter that has a par meter coming today or Monday through Amazon. I believe it is the same system that you are talking about through BRS.



My LEDs are a mix of Kessils and cheap Chinese lights. They are adjustable in both intensity and what color they put out. I can adjust the "white", a mixture of Red, Green, Yellow and White, the blue and the violet. My feeling is that I have too much light on some of the corals. I will get that figured out when the meter comes in and I have time to sit down and get all the measurements. My goal is to add some T5's to the system when I can upgrade the cooling fans. The system is built into my wall.



http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b448/langdonjon/Tank/image_zpsmpdrcwtj.jpeg



I don't know about the color program from Red Sea. I thought you dosed based on your calcium and alkalinity dosing with a two part solution. I am currently running a skims calcium reactor, so I don't know the exact amount being dosed, meaning what it would equal in two part dosing. Can you still measure and test for the items that you are dosing with the Red Sea system if you are not using two part?


There is a corresponding Red Sea Colors test kit that you would use to determine what your tank levels are and you dose accordingly.


http://www.redseafish.com/coral-coloration-program/coral-colors-pro-test-kit/



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[timnem70]

What are your parameters if I may ask.


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[malinois]

What are your parameters if I may ask.


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Just tested this morning...

Calcium - 450
Alkalinity – 8.0
Mag - 1360
PH - 8.1
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - .03
SG - 1.025

[malinois]

So I am going to give the Red Sea color program a try. Picked it up yesterday and ran the tests. The color test kit is the most time consuming test I have ever run. Took nearly an hour to run all of the tests. Nice thing is I am going to know exactly at I am dosing for.

So last nights test results...
Iodine - .04
Iron - 0
Potassium - 410

So basically my potassium is ok, iodine is a little low and iron is non existent. From what I understand my tank should be running .06 in Iodine, .15 in iron and around 410 in potassium.

My goal is to get my par readings today to make sure the lighting is correct.

Has anyone had succes with the Red Sea program?

[bertoni]

.15 ppm is very high for iron. The natural level is more like .006 ppb or .000006 ppm. 0.15 ppm probably is safe, though.

[malinois]

.15 ppm is very high for iron. The natural level is more like .006 ppb or .000006 ppm. 0.15 ppm probably is safe, though.

If I remember it correctly, Red Sea claims that the iron is typically much much more elevated in the reef tank.

[bertoni]

Iron is consumed or otherwise bound very rapidly in reef tanks. Without supplementation, it'll be far below 0.15 ppm. This article has some data:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

As it points out, higher iron levels seem to be perfectly safe, but they are far different from the oceans.

[Drewl117]

Any luck with the seneye? I'm just curious, because I have 1 coming tomorrow.

[malinois]

Iron is consumed or otherwise bound very rapidly in reef tanks. Without supplementation, it'll be far below 0.15 ppm. This article has some data:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

As it points out, higher iron levels seem to be perfectly safe, but they are far different from the oceans.

Thanks for the link. I am wishing I had paid more attention in my chemistry classes in high school and college. Who would have thought there is so much chemistry in a simple fish tank ;)

[malinois]

Any luck with the seneye? I'm just curious, because I have 1 coming tomorrow.

I have set it up for the ph and ammonia monitoring so far. It seems to do well with that. I don't really understand the need to monitor ammonia to that degree in a well-established system. I guess however I might see a small spike and be very proactive to something going wrong. I do like the pH monitor in it. It seems to be very accurate. I have double checked the pH readings against my test kits and get the same reading. The system says that I have .002 ppm ammonia in my system. It has not moved from that number since day one.

I have not really used the light meter portion of it yet. I have not been home when my lights are fully ramped up. I did play with it a bit and it seems pretty cool. I have today off so I should be able to get readings throughout the tank.

[Drewl117]

Nice... I'm glad to here it's working good! I've been wanting to check out the par meter for a while now.

[malinois]

Nice... I'm glad to here it's working good! I've been wanting to check out the par meter for a while now.

I was able to play with the par meter a little today. It is difficult to hold it on the bottom of my tank without creating a little shadowing affect. I have to find a way to hold it with something other than my hand. This isn't really a defect in the Seneye, but more of how high I mounted my tank in my wall. So far it's worth the money just for the par meter.